The SID-successiongame.
 

http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/up...5319_start.jpg
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Currently in: Kingreno, Propain and Kemal. Needed: a fourth player.

lvl:sid...

More info? This looks similar to most my C3C games in Civ choice and difficulty. :D

Ok Ok:

Civ: the Dutch
diff : sid
AI agression: normal
Map size: large
AI: 7 random opponents
world: Temp, 5 billion, Archipelago.

I settled on the spot and a friendly warrior joins our despotism![coool]
Amsterdam is on the Sea.

2 potential settler factories there.

3 actually :-)

Looks like a promising start :)

OK, I'm in. :D

Got room for a fifth ? Please [worship]
[love]

Oh yeah - now you can what a good start it is , you all want to join up. Bastards.

@Sky: Sure, you've proven your skills to the evaluationboard. Welcome[cool]

So, now we have 5! I suggest we start with these 5 and perhaps later we can see if teamchanges are needed for some reason.

The play order is to be determined by who actually has conquests. Obviously I do, but I do not know about you guys?

Strategy: any thougts? [eek]

Strategy for the early turns: Lean and mean!

Only build granaries and barracks for improvements.

Only build workers and settlers (from granary cities), warriors (very early for exploration), carracks (for exploring) and military units (i.e. horses, or warriors for upgrade if no horses).

Basic stuff I know, but if we deviate and build silly improvements we will get stomped (at least from my experience). Even on Deity you can deviate quite a lot, but on Sid I wouldn't dare...

Also worth noting that "anti-RCP" placement is useful for lower corruption (never more than 2 at same distance, and preferably only 1. Also make sure not to 'waste' a distance by not placing a city there).

We should have a weaker player in between anarres and Kemal, I'll sacrifice myself to get the [whipped]
Everybody has C3C now since SinterKlaas came to Holland today so my propsoed play order :
KR
PP
Kemal
Sky
anar

Also lets be kind and gentle on Kemal's first ever SG [lol] I'll keep the veto stamp in the drawer to the max :D

Remember it is "us" against SID.[}:)]

We're a team, how nice. [:X]

Ok, I'll play my 10 turns and keep everybody wellinformed. I will then send the game to PP who just informed me he got c3c! [goodjob]

Ok, build 3 warriors and started a setler. the warriors are scouting.
We have growth in 3, setler in 5, we're size 2. I say setler-granary, and granary in Rottedam to be founded near the second wheat.

Sent to PP.

I suggest you post the game here rather than emailing it. That way if someone is missing for 24hrs+ we can skip them, and also others can download it jsut to see the general progress.

Here's a quick dotmap I made. Had to brush up my knowledge of RCP ( thanx Sky)

I entered 3 dots to mark best spot imo. Still leaves the purple circled area. We must settle there too imo. And the 2 sqaures near the arrow which could be alternates for blue dot.

For now I say settle red dot 1st, followed by yellow dot.

http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/up...otmapsidsg.jpg
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For those who wanna make new dots, here's a file without the dots.



http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/up...rdotmapjpg.jpg
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write up

turn1 - move warriors (M.W.)
turn2 - M.W.
turn3 - M.W. move lux to keep A'dam happy
turn4 - Settler finished. Start Curragh.Fiddle with science slider. It was at 90% but no matter how high we maintain a 50 turn rate. Set it back to 10%. We lost some cash here the 1sy 14 turns
turn5 - M.W.
turn6 - M.W.
turn7 - M.W.
Turn8 - M.W., found R'dam, meet vikings. The lack pottery and have WC and BW. No tech deal possible for pottery, 8gpt, 22gold!!! I trade pottery for 2 workers (!!) and 10 gold. Ragnar has 5 cities alrdy! MOve workers to deerforest for chopping

http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/up...35722_scan.jpg
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turn9 - Curragh done, start granary
turn10- Meet spain, tech deals possible for 8gpt and 43 cash. Interesting detail their boat came from the NORTH!!! probably they're on our island. They have WC, CB and BW just as Ragnar.

http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/up...5912_spain.jpg
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I didnt open any huts yet, but it seems smart to do that now before the Spanish and Scand. ladn unit and do it for us. This is gonna be a hard game.



Download Attachment: [img]icon_paperclip.gif[/img] SG3000 BC.SAV
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Wow pp, you're blazing fast!

Too late to propose an alternative city roster I worked on now I guess...[sad]

Good job on getting those workers from Scandinavia!

I disagree on the money lost PP, if we found more cities the "invested" beakers will begin to show! Tested it multiple times. I am certain that we will get writing in 30-35 turns overall and that would mean a hell of a difference with 50 turns!
Besides on Sid money is worth exactly nothing in this stage since the AI's will demand. demand. demand.

@KR: I'm no expert on the invested beaker fenomena, but if you're right we should put lux slider back up.
@Kemal: just founded one city, so plenty of alternate schemese possible I'd say! I'd like to say your proposal

I'm a total noob regarding the corruption effects of C3C, so on whether we really need a city even on distance 2 from the capital I'm going with anarres' opinion.

Taking into account that Rotterdam has already been founded, how about a city placement as in the following pic (no fancy dots as in pp's pic, just regular paint dots ;)):

http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/up...otmapkemal.jpg
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My personal choice would be to found the blue dot city first, than the yellow one. both have access to forests for shields, and the blue dot city reaches 5 food surplus with the cow irrigated.

Also, considering the granary, I'd prefer building at least one other settler before starting the granary.

Will go and play the turns tonight. :)

Looks good Kemal ! Go ahead.

We indeed have an issue with Science, I dont believe we should "go back" to Max Science, it s too late now.
I agree with KR that max science towards Writing could have been achieved before 50 turns, but that would have been without Curragh or Granary just full on settlers to get as many cities up to increase our beakers.
It would have been beneficial in the short term but the granary gets his full impact in the mid-term.
In that regard maybe we should go on with the granny instead of taking another settler out, why do you think we should do that Kemal ?
I dont want to rant about granary though, there is no absolute truth on that subject.

since there was forest about to be chopped I've went for a granary anyways, otherwise shields would have been wasted. Here's a report on the latest 10 turns:

21:MW, see red borders to the north

22:Meet Babylon, they lack Alphabet and pottery! Great trading possibilities here, I first trade pottery for CB and 69 gold, hoping they have mysticism, but unfortunately they do not. Proceed by trading alphabet for BW and WC, after which I get another Scandinavian worker for CB. We're now at tech parity, except for Ragnar who has The Wheel (I tried to get it but it was way too expensive...). adjust luxury tax to keep the people of Rotterdam happy. I've decided to continue our min. research, since we have used op some turns for that already, and because I feel we might need plenty of luxury tax in this land of plenty (as far as food is concerned)
23:MW

24:MW

25: Disease strikes Rotterdam :(, I was building a worker there, but I change prod to warrior now. MW

26:MW, Rotterdam produces warrior.

27:MW

28:MW

29:Amsterdam completes granary, starts settler, MW

30:MW, Greek borders in sight to the west for our curragh, but unable to make contact this turn. I don't think we're at tech parity anymore Toto, AI has IW, Mysticism, Wheel and masonry in front, but the techs are divided. So far we've been unable trade even the cheapest techs with these freaking Sid misers though, but now, with the new contact coming up, tech trading may well be a good possibility.

The savegame for skyfish:

Download Attachment: [img]icon_paperclip.gif[/img] SidSG_2550BC.SAV
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Got it !
Its feast time on SGs at the moment, i need to finish 2 CFC ones first [rolleyes]

Not playing here, but of course following closely :). Two questions:
- What was the motivation for building Rotterdam first, PP? I would''ve send the first settler to blue or yellow, hoping for a faster penetration of the lands between Holland and its neighbours. Units from R'dam now have to travel longer distances, and its tiles aren't much better than the other options imho.
- What came from the huts?

GL to the next player! :)

I just realised - there's no minimap posted yet!! [:o]

Motivation for R'dam was the wheated flood plain that's under the worker. Worker was irrigating that, so that would mean it could use that tile to share with A'dam. Also the worker can irrigate the other fplain easily and then we can build some workers/settlers from R'dam. So proximity to improved tiles and worker was the main reason.

We're doing okay now. If we get to writing (which I doubt, but no-one is to blame but Sid[crazyeye]) we should NOT push for Phil...I played several Sid/Deity already and the AI always got Phil and MM first. Remember also that with so many techs already discovered any huts for the AI will very likely give Phil as well!
I Say lit or CoL.

What frightens me most is that this thread has more visitors in 10 days the all other spoilers in my forum[hmm][lol]

More like 3 no ?
;)

Oh btw here boss :D
Not sure it helps that much...

http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/up...CDZMinimap.jpg
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All looks good.
Gotta hate producing a 6 food bonus in Amsterdam but oh well [rolleyes]

2510 : the curragh meets the greeks, they are only up the Wheel and dont have Pottery, give them a bit of gold with it, then the Babs dont have the Wheel but Mysticism, swap trhat with some cash and finally go to the Spanish and exchange Mystic for Masonry plus change, then turn around and sell wherever I can. Nice 3fer :D
The weak AIs are broke, Vikings are dominant with no gold but HBR and IW up on us, then the Babs have IW and gold, then the rest of the AIs (Spain, Greece)are level or under us with no money.
We still have 173g making 10 gpt.
I could have bargained our whole economy for IW but its not worth it, will wait for miser price.

2470 : worker is produced in Rotterdam, set to Settler.

2430 : press enter

2390 : Slaves finish to mine the BG in Amsterdam we finally have our 4 turn settler factory... Settler is produced and sent to the spot at distance 2
Wow ! am I glad I waited, the Greeks get IW and have no Mystic : they are OK for a straight deal (they have no gold)
The Vikes have Writing (16 turns before our min sci comes in...) Nobody else has it or can afford it.
The Hague is founded in a very crowded randstad :( We have Iron right nearby. Cant see no horse btw...

2350 : press enter

2310 : Play around the food tiles : Amsterdam does not need the irrigated wheat flood plain so it lends it to Rotterdam who needs to grow to get shields.
Decide to swap Rotterdam to a Warrior as we need MP instead of 30% lux for 2 turns at size 5.

2270 : Bingo we find and Indian Curragh ! They have 63g and lack Mystic and IW. Just Mystic is enough to bankrupt them.
Vikes still have monopoly on Writing and wont part from it even for 300g and 10gpt [argh] Not that I would do it mind you ;)

2230: Another settler out. Spain gets Horseback Riding and lacks IW, this is too easy.. In a solo game I would never
acquire it now its very early to be producing Horses but with the increased cost of upgrade [rolleyes]

2190 : Bang Rotterdam gets hit by disease but produces a warrior, the Zulus (??) complete the Oracle.

2150 : We get hit by disease *again* even though I tried the work around. Madrid completes Colossus.
Utrecht gets built on hill by wheat FP.
By the way The Hague produced a warrior and now is making a worker. The Indians have a worker available and neither HBR or IW, great stuff, just HBR buys it and they give 5g on top (their whole treasury)

Here is my proposed anti-RCP future cities, good sites actually, that anti circle is great !

http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/up...CDZdotmap2.JPG

And the save !
Good luck to anarres !

Download Attachment: [img]icon_paperclip.gif[/img] William of the Dutch, 2150 BC.SAV
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So we're doing outward spiral instead of ring now. No matter what they give us. we'll come up with a math solution!!

Who is the fello on the hill east of hague? Is that a new picture for aslave unit?

Yes slaves are dressed in their nationality's folkloric costume now, a nice addition of C3C :D

Yes, slaves now look different, which is a great improvement. Also theyt seem much cheaper than in PTW, it almost feels like old vanilla civ prices.

No sorry but that is not true, they are actually more expensive now between 125g and 130g.
I think you have exchanged them for techs until now PP and the cost of those has increased (relatively speaking) therefore...

I haven't forgotten about this! The last two nights I have been hosting my littlest brother at my house while he has Cambridge interviews, and tonight I have my company's Christmas meal.

I have however got tomorrow off work so I should be able to play then (providing my hangover isn't too dibilitating).

Haha funny my company's Xmas meal is also tonight :D
Enjoy !

Should we forget "anti-RCP" now the beta patch is out next week? I would say so...

I dont trust they will repair it man, really
I like our spiral :D Plus those sites I mapped are good ! Really !

One (very minor) thing I noticed - we are roading a forrest tile, which is a waste if the shields can be used. It only takes 4 turns to chop forest now, so in 6 turns you can road a forest and in 7 you can chop it and road the underlying tile.