View Full Version : Major changes to wonders!
Shabbaman
05-11-2003, 08:09
You probably already read this: http://www.civ3.com/devupdate_newwonders.cfm
Not only some of the new (core game!) wonders are good, some of the original ones have been altered: shakespeare's theatre has a built in sewer system (grows above size 12) and the great wall now gives walls on the same continent.
And, iirc just like civ2 (or ctp2, keep mixing those up...), if you research philosophy as the first civ you get a 'mini-ToE', 'pick a tech'! Definately a new strategy...
Any thoughts?
Lt. Killer M
05-11-2003, 08:34
hehe, I like the free tech thingy / and the sewer...
it was about time they changed the Great Wall, too.
Also, now all the 'real' ancient 7 wonders are all there, finally.
digger760
05-11-2003, 09:52
but leaders can't rush great wonders anymore...that will be a big change.
When you have ivory in your empire I suppose prebuilding Zeus and beelining Mathematics will be a wise choice! The earlier you get it, the more powerfull it will be!
But still, on deity, usually the AI gets all the ancient wonders. They just have some extra cascading options now... [rolleyes]
Shabbaman
05-11-2003, 10:05
quote:Originally posted by digger760
but leaders can't rush great wonders anymore...that will be a big change.
[eek]
Hm, I missed that... Well, I'm unable to produce leaders lately anyway... :(
I can't find anything about GL's not being able to rush wonders on the Civ3 site.
Scientific leaders can give you a tech boost and can't build armies - if they can't rush wonders what can they do apart from speed research (which is not the only option!) [hmm]
This is from somewhere we shouldn't be looking ;):
Leader (0/0/3): The most important difference about leaders is that they have now been separated into two groups: military great leaders and scientific great leaders.
Scientific great leaders are also implemented in a random fashion though; whenever a tech is discovered first by a civ, that civ (and only that civ) has a chance to spawn a scientific great leader. Scientific great leaders can still rush wonders, or use an ability called "increase scientific output" which increases all scientific beakers produced by 25% for 20 turns. This is also called a scientific golden age. Scientific leaders also cannot create armies.
Sorry, I had to remove some text that may be available to the public yet.
Link removed, see next post
- anarres
As much as I like that link we can't allow it. Please check this CFC thread as to some of the reasoning behind why:
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=67628
digger760
05-11-2003, 13:38
quote:Originally posted by anarres
I can't find anything about GL's not being able to rush wonders on the Civ3 site.
Scientific leaders can give you a tech boost and can't build armies - if they can't rush wonders what can they do apart from speed research (which is not the only option!) [hmm]
I got it from someone who should'nt have posted ;)
I suppose the above quote answeres your question. military great leaders can rush small wonders and create armies (which now heal faster and can pillage without using movement)
Ahh I see..., I will remove the link then!
WildFire
05-11-2003, 13:57
When I was testin c3c, I didn't even realize I couldn't rush Wonders with the GL. As can be expected, I made quite a fit and argument in the irc channel ;)
Shabbaman
05-11-2003, 14:45
Hm, so since cfc can't link to 'individual member pages' so can't we? Pretty dumb of sulla btw... But this means that a 'builder' strategy is rewarded!
Darkness
05-11-2003, 14:48
GL's can't rush great wonders anymore? I don't like that at all! :(
Shabba,
We can't link to his pages because it appears he is breaking the terms of the NDA. Until someone (preferably Sulla) confirms that those pages only give out correct info on Conquests (and not info on the BETA testing stuff, like things that have been changed) I would rather not have them linked. I'm not trying to protect CDZ at all, but if he is breaking the NDA it is best for him not to have those links public.
Thinking about it, if Sulla say's it's OK I am happy for links to be given. Until then please don't allow them.
BTW - the Conquests forum at CFC is absolutely jammed solid atm. I posted an RCP question and in a couple of hours it has 100 views, and is half way down the page. [eek]
Lt. Killer M
05-11-2003, 14:59
hell, this is anotehr huge advantage for AIs - they reserch faster on higher levels AND get the scientific leaders to speed it further...
fuck-the-human, what a nice game..
I guess single player will be evn less attractive in C3C than it is right now
You really think this is a change for the worst Killer? If you can play on Deity and win you should welcome things to make the game harder!
Lt. Killer M
05-11-2003, 15:05
anarres: they should not find new ways to multipy AI advantages but program a better AI. nuf said.
digger760
05-11-2003, 16:25
quote:Originally posted by anarres
Shabba,
We can't link to his pages because it appears he is breaking the terms of the NDA. Until someone (preferably Sulla) confirms that those pages only give out correct info on Conquests (and not info on the BETA testing stuff, like things that have been changed) I would rather not have them linked. I'm not trying to protect CDZ at all, but if he is breaking the NDA it is best for him not to have those links public.
Thinking about it, if Sulla say's it's OK I am happy for links to be given. Until then please don't allow them.
Sullla has removed the offending pages from his site now. So i guess its ok to link it again. But i'll leave it for anarres to decide..still a good read imo (infact when i read originally i skipped over the bugs part because i felt there was no point reading about what would not be in the game). I think he still mentions bugs that are in the game...in particular the reputation hit caused by an uncontrollable loss of a trade route.
OK then, feel free to link. ERIKK - I am sorry but I can't re-insert it as I have not kept the link.
I agree - it's a good read, and I was on the BETA team. ;)
sulla link: http://www.kalikokottage.com/civ3/sullla/
Lt. Killer M
05-11-2003, 17:20
there is still abundant info about earlier version (ie betas) in that text.
Shabbaman
06-11-2003, 07:50
quote:Originally posted by anarres
if he is breaking the NDA it is best for him not to have those links public
ok, good point. Great site btw. And oh, research ironclads? [crazyeye]
EDIT:
"Ironclad (5/6/3) bombard (6/1/2): Ironclads now require a new, optional, tech called Ironclads to be built. This tech is usually skipped by the AI and thus prolongs the age of sail long into the Industrial Age. If you do choose to research this extra tech, Ironclads are now beasts of the seas, easily able to sink all wooden ships with impunity. This change adds a lot more strategy to naval combat, and I give it a BIG thumbs-up."
[coool]
Lt. Killer M
06-11-2003, 08:01
'Ironclads are now beasts of the seas'
[lol] I use battleships for that purpose - and every game I lose a battleship to a Galleon or so....... so much for beasts of the sea....
Lt. Killer M
06-11-2003, 15:23
dumb Q: will CAPTURED wonders also produce 'tourism' for the new owner?????
That dumb q bothers me as well.
No reply on CFC so far.
About capturing: CT has confirmed that capturing the ToA will give you free temples.:)
That, the rather high shield cost of 500 and the missing (military-)GL rush option makes an ai-built ToA a lucrative target, I guess...
[fdevil]
Lt. Killer M
06-11-2003, 16:45
quote:Originally posted by Grille
That dumb q bothers me as well.
No reply on CFC so far.
About capturing: CT has confirmed that capturing the ToA will give you free temples.:)
That, the rather high shield cost of 500 and the missing (military-)GL rush option makes an ai-built ToA a lucrative target, I guess...
[fdevil]
especially as that will alos remove all the non-built (i.e. TA induced) Temples for said AI [estwing]
Hehe, dreaming about a raid on the nearby ai city that owns both TGL and ToA...
[love][sleep][love]
...while my religious-fanatic gov would condemn that evil edu-tech!
I read that captured wonders will bring tourism, and I the source is one I would normally trust.
Lt. Killer M
06-11-2003, 19:28
thanx anarres!
Shabbaman
07-11-2003, 08:05
Grille, that's pretty obvious. You get granaries when you capture the pyramids...
Hehe, yeah sure, but... for example, I would have thought that I could (M)GL-rush a wonder which does not work; so I'm trying to avoid making assumption from a logical/traditional game mechanic's point of view.;)
About Great Leaders:
Maybe the missing MGL-rush option for GWs isn't all that bad since you could rush a GW with the SGL and are actually be able to stockpile those chaps!!
[eek]
[confused]
I dunno whetcher having more than one SGL is a bug or a feature, but here's a link showing a pic in the CFC bug thread:
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?postid=1342441#post1342441
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