View Full Version : *** SPOILER *** Tiny Chaos 2
digger760
21-10-2003, 13:06
Player order
Player1: digger760 Greece
Player2: Matrix Straland (Vikings)
player3: ProPain Persia
player4: Markstar Iroquois
Difficuly Level: easy deity (deity with +1 settler for humans)
Map parameters:
- climate: warm & wet
- size: tiny
- landmass: Pangea...but not an amphorphous blob...make it look like a bit like somebody who has jumped from a sky scraper, so that boats might be useful.
- barbs: restless
- AI: none
- all standard conditions on
- no regicide, capture the princess and other multiplayer conditions
- civ-abilities on
- culturally-linked start off
- ai-respawn off
digger760
21-10-2003, 13:15
Ok, started of on the forest next to the river, only 1 bonus grass in sight. We have started with 2 settlers so i decide to move one north west onto the hill. I see the wheat/flood plain, I am also next to some incense and, after expansion i will also get the bonus grass again, and i still have the river :). Seems like a good enough spot for the capital.
I send the second settler south, and spot a game on forest, but next turn i might move onto the hill so see further. This map is tiny so a close build might be a good plan.
The worker heads north-west to irrigate the flooded wheat plain.
http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/digger760/2003102113135_TC2_4000.JPG
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digger760
31-10-2003, 14:43
built captial on hill as seen above,
irrigated wheat/flood plain,
built second city south of game.
first big decision of the game, irrigate the next flood plain or build road to the incence on the hills, i choose to irrigate the second flood plain, pop hut...empty.
developed pottery->researching wheel
3350BC Markstars Iroquoi scout has appeared from the east. Diplo screen shows i can offer Alphabet and Bronze Working. Markstar would have started with pottery and Cerimonial Burial. No decent trade there for me. Tech Calc seems to suggest he has nothing else. I am no 1 in land area, mfg and population, and 2nd in GNP so i suspect markstar is cashing up and hoping his scout will bring in the tech.
http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/digger760/2003103114418_3350BC.JPG
92.12KB
oh yea -> discover barb camp in the west with 2 conscipt barbs :(
digger760
21-11-2003, 12:58
***NEWSFLASH*** 2590BC
Reports have come in from distant lands that ProPain the Evil of Persia has unexpectedly declared war on Markstar of the Iroquous. Although the Greeks (me) have never meet these Persian people, at this stage we assume that the attack was on a so called scout that was seen wondering Greece several turns back.
Meanwhile on the home front. Athens is producing settlers every 5-6 turns. One settlers has been produced and is head east towards some horses apprix 2 squares east of the iro scout in the above pic. Sparta has completed a barracks in is producing hoplites.
Trading with Markstar is proving to be difficult (but this is his first PBEM), he is not discussing them over msn..so for several turns now we have been sending offers to and fro for a trade between Alphabet (mine) and Markstars Masonry and CB.
digger760
21-11-2003, 16:26
UPDATE:
While trying to negotiate with Markstar ove MSN, ProPain says over MSN that he has found me. So between two (private conversations) I negotiate the following trades:
ProPain offers: Cerimonial Burial for Alphabet
Markstar offers: Masonry + 40 gold for Alphabet+15 gold
the markstar deal occured over about 4 turns..dont ask me how it ended up like this but for what ever reason it was accepted. In the meantime i was negotiating masonry with propain for alphabet, and had forgotten markstar had offered masonry in all the confusion. I made a deal with propain for alph-masonry. Propain was most upset when i was forced to back out. i i offered Alpha for CB straight swap.
digger760
03-12-2003, 12:54
2470BC
Now have contact with matrix (somebody must have traded me around)
Swap Wheel for Warrior Code with Matrix.
2430BC The State of the nation
-i just built Thermoplayea, so it might be sacked by the barb but at least i dont loose the settler. Hopefull i can build the warrior before Markstar can take it, as his boundary is right against mine already.
http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/digger760/2003123124935_TC2_2430BC.JPG
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digger760
19-01-2004, 13:53
1675BC
Sometime ago, Propain masacared an iroquois scout that had wondered onto Persian lands. This un-provoked attack has made the Iroquios very upset at the Persians. Rumour has it that Shah Propain of the Persians has made several diplomatic approaches to the Iro's for peace, but the replies thus from Chief Markstar have been very undiplomatic. The words "piss off" were have been said to have been used in the negotiations.
The Iro's have also suggested to us that they wish to pursue the war with the Persians until Cavalry !!! That would be nice, but i'm sure Markstar will see sense soon enough.
We swapped Iron Working with the Iro's for there Mystacism. We also discovered Writing this turn and have proposed to swap it with the Scandinavians Mathematics.
We have negotiated a semi-right of passage with the Persians, they have been allowed have a spearman pass though our lands on the condition that we could explore persian lands with my warrior.
We also established an embassy with the Persians this turn.
here are a few shots of the world.
Embassy in Persepolis:
http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/digger760/2004119134855_PERSEPOLIS_1675BC.JPG
85.62KB
The World of the Greeks:
http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/digger760/2004119134936_WORLD_1675BC.JPG
83.77KB
Strange that 3 of my cities in that shot are missing the info bar, but they are there and fully defended!
Lt. Killer M
19-01-2004, 14:24
known bug is cities came too close to the north or south border in 1.21 and earlier. I thought it was supposed to be fixed in 1.27 and 1.12ff
Free unwanted advice for cheap :
For a tiny map and with an agressive scenario, your cities are much too distant !
Look at Persia's empire : your core should have a "tight buid" that means that a defender can go from 1 city to another
over roads in 1 turn. Also it allows you to share your improvements between cities.
You could actually "right now" add an inner ring around Athens so distant are your cities.
I even see that you did not follow your own advice ;)
quote:Originally posted by Digger760
This map is tiny so a close build might be a good plan.
Killer - the display bug when zoomed out is still present.
digger760
13-02-2004, 14:57
1275BC
I've just relised i have no access to Iron in this game. Propain has 3 sources!!!
I have settled 2 more cities, one on the hill b/w Athens and Corinth, the other in the jungle approx 3-4 squares north Athens
I was thinking over another two locations, next to the ivory, and possible on the plains SW of Athens.
Athens is my settler factory, but i have switched it to a temple, so i have no settler city, maybe Sparta my be good for 1, but i also want to build a few military units and that is Sparta's job.
The state of war between ProPain and Markstar still exists, and potential conflict is brewing:
http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/digger760/2004213145314_TC2_1275BC.JPG
187.84KB
Recent trade deal:
I trade Mathematics for Philospophy + 30 gold with Markstar
digger760
13-02-2004, 14:59
Any bets on who will step into the path of the other?
digger760
13-02-2004, 15:26
1250 AD
Established Embassy with Markstar of the Iroquois
http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/digger760/2004213152233_SALAMANCA_TC2_1250BC.JPG
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Yikes - 4 lux's all hooked up, Vet MW, big city nearby, at least he has no iron, and his attention is diverted to propain.
I have decided to build less barracks and more regular hoplites. I have located about 1/2 of my cities on hills, so i think i should be ok to defend any attacks. However without Iron I am in the poo.
With Markstar in his GA I wouldn't assume a lack of Iron will stop him. In fact, it will probably mean he is forced in to constant early war until he has secured Iron.
Very good job of settling those cities in between your first settled ciites [thumbsup]
OT : why dont you use the Deskscan screen capture utility to avoid those ugly looking taskbars on your screenshots ?
http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=98
digger760
13-02-2004, 16:17
Normally I use deskscan, but i could'nt get the Iroquois stack details when i use that. I had to use the print screen key.
I had'nt noticed that The iro's were in a GA, that is even more alarming.
I have been avoiding the barbs, with my hoplites because i did'nt want a depot GA. However with Markstar building a large force of MW, i think i might need the boost in production to get those hoplites out (and maybe help me get the Great Library..nobody is building wonders..so says the F7 screen...i think Athens might be a good city to build it)
FWIW barbs can't trigger a GA, they can just make you Elite...
digger760
13-02-2004, 16:47
bugger[wallbash]....I lost a vet chariot because of that. I moved the Hoplite out of the city to let the barb attack the empty city...but silly me left a chariot auto-move into the city at the end of turn and the barb horse killed it.
I replayed that particular turn to check...and yes the hoplite beat the barb horsy and no golden age [cry]
digger760
19-02-2004, 13:58
I think ProPain lost the immortal from the previos pic..here is the latest:
4 vet MW
2 reg MW
1 Elite spear
http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/digger760/200421913563_TC2_1175BC.JPG
26.76KB
digger760
12-03-2004, 08:18
1025BC
Ok so its now 1025BC, I've been to busy to write updates on a regular basis. But the war between The Iro's and Persia is over, I dont think there was much bloodshed. The advantage was on Persia side because, the Iro's had mounted warriors advancing through jungle, while the immortals just had to sit back and wait for them.
After the war ended, 4MW and 1 elite spear moved back through Greece to their homeland. Yet a threat still exists from Persia with a stack of 7 Immortals nextto the border of Greece and another 2 immortals lurking nearby.
Although there was no threat or demand from the Persian leader ProPain. The physiological effect was enough to result in the people of Greece converting a partly constructed Great Library in Athens into a barracks. This will allow Athens to produce a vet hoplite every 2 turns with no shield wastage (except the those wasted converting to the barracks ~ 13 shields). However it would have taken another 40 or so turns to build the great library and ProPain could have taken me out on his own before then.
ProPain was asked to explain his troop positioning and it has been explained to the people of Greece that they packing up camp after fortifying during the Persian-Iro war.
Traded Maths and Mystacism with ProPain for Code of Laws
The size of the opposition forces wandering about is of concern as my total military force consists of:
5 hoplites
7 warriors
2 chariots
900BC
Checked the tech ladder every the same tech as everybody else has except horseback riding, which only Markstar seems to have and literature which i have, that leaves
Construction (27)
Currency (due in 2)
Republic (38)
MapMaking (16)
Polyethism (16)
Military:
12 hoplites
7 warriors
2 chariots (Ireland 19 - Sweet Chariot 13)
Demographics:
GNP: 55 million (3rd)
MFG: 27 megatons (3rd)
Land Area: 10800 (3rd)
PP and Markstar are in a golden age.
Politically speaking the following deals are known:
Markstar – digger760 20 turn Peace deal ending start of 550BC turn
Markstar – PP 30 turn deal ending about 8 turns after 550BC
This leaves PP and myself politically tied if Markstar attacks Matrix.
And here my view of the world:
http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/digger760/200431281253_tc2_900bc.jpg
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digger760
16-03-2004, 08:47
850BC - As suspected markstar has attacked matrix, and has captured the Straland city east of Oil Springs.
Meanwhile silly me let ProPain settle near Mycenae, allowing him to control the horse resource under the chariot on the hill. But ProPain has offered to trade wines for dyes, so that is a positive step towards peace.
digger760
23-03-2004, 08:21
800BC - Propain and I discuss an alliance vs Markstar...at this stage there is no way we can help matrix. I Dont have any attack power and ProPain is to far away. We both think Matrix may only last 10 turns...he was weak compared to me and Markstar was strong compared to me. So our only option is to form an alliance.
ProPain will trade me Iron and Republic and I will give him Literature, Currency and probably a lux as well. I am now saving up cash and about to start building warriors and when the time is right - will do a mass upgrade to swords, In about 14 turns or so I should have
~15 warriors
~600 gold
~15 hoplites
ProPain is marching 18 immortals over my land to assemble south west of the Iroquois border...makes the greeks a bit nervous...but we have no other option.
I change the libray build in Athens to a marketplace...due in 7...might get a bit extra cash for another warrior upgrade.
Thats the right tactic ! You really should try to hit him while his forces are in Matrixland !
Cant you attack before 14 turns ? you need to hit him 4 or 5 turns after he started invading Matrix I would say...
digger760
23-03-2004, 09:50
possibly but I have to sav up the cash to build warriors to be upgraded to swords and that is the main hold up, It will take ProPain about 8-9 turns to move across my land, unless i grant ROP...but then that gives Markstar obvious warning.
digger760
13-04-2004, 19:20
The date is now 590BC
Markstar almost wiped Matrix off the Planet however, PP gifted Matrix a city just before Markstar took the last Scandinavian city. The aim is to make Markstar garrison the cities to prevent flips
PP and Myself have been gearing up for an attack on Markstar. My Peace treaty ends with Markstar at the start of 550BC..2 turns away. Markstar is looking to re-knew this. As players have been honerable thus far..i had have no choice but to decline an extension to the treaty. ProPains treaty with Markstar is 4-5 turns beyond 550BC iirc.
This turn PP donated iron so that i could upgrade 14 warriors to swords. While i was doing it i used PP F3 military advisor report to gauge markstars strength. Prior to the upgrade i had:
6 reg Warriors,
8 vet Warriors,
5 reg Hoplites,
11 vet Hoplites,
3 vert chariots,
1 elite chariot.
This equated to a military strength of 433points. I rated weak compared to markstar.
After upgrading 6 vet swords Markstar changed from weak to average at 529 points. Therefore I estimate Markstar has about 660 military points which eqautes to at the worst 29 vet MW, but he is bound to have a few spears, so it is more likely 20 MW and 10-15 spears.
PP has a stack of 21 vet immortals next to Athensy they are to move east 1 sqaure to where my worker is, then when he attacks, he will advance north to the Iro city just in the fog. I am supposed to have a road completed in the jungle so that he can be next to the city in 1 turn, but that is still 6 turns away.
My aim is to attack Oil springs with 11 swords and about 12 hoplites and hopefully hold off any Iro Counter attack from the south.
Here is a screenie:
http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/digger760/2004413191552_TC2_590BC.jpg
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digger760
22-04-2004, 17:17
edit: removed double post
digger760
22-04-2004, 17:18
450BC
Well, 550BC was the end of the Iro-Greece peace treaty, but for some reason (nerves maybe) i held back.
ProPain has reported the Iroquois army has increased in strength and is now average compared to his.
PP offered Republic, but i can't risk changing now on the eve of D-Day, a potentially 8 turn anarchic golden age would be a terrible waste.
I moved a unit into Iro territory and this is what i seen:
http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/digger760/2004422165253_tc2_450_irostack.JPG
210.83*KB
36 Vet MW and 1 Elite
and here is my SOD:
http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/digger760/2004422165921_tc2_450_greekstack.JPG
210.95*KB
7 Reg Hoplites
9 Vet Hoplites
13 swords
1 horsey
and hopefully PP will join the party and here is his SOD
http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/digger760/2004422172318_tc2_450_persionstack.JPG
238.84KB
[:o]
That's some EPIC fight about to kick off! [luke2]
Pastorius
22-04-2004, 18:56
Wow. Please play many turns and post many pics :)
digger760
23-04-2004, 13:09
450BC:
Battle Report:
Iroquois:
4 MW lost 0 HP
4 MW lost 1 HP
6 MW lost 2 HP
10 MW lost 3 HP
11 MW died
6 MW retreated
total = (24 wins) - (6 retreats) = 18 greek losses
30 Greek units - 18 = 12 remaining, but as the screen pic shows i only have 10 + scouting horseman = 11, so the numbers must'nt be quite right. The Iro's have a elite spear and reg MW on the hill to the north. PP's immo stack is 21 strong and at full strength. Iro's abandoned 3 cites, shown on the picture below
I end up moving my stack back to Thermopylae to heal.
http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/digger760/200442313356_TC_450BC.jpg
177.4*KB
Pastorius
23-04-2004, 15:52
Wow. So how long do you think this will last?
(ahem. What are your plans for Matrix and PP if/when you get rid of Markstar?)
digger760
02-06-2004, 13:22
310BC
Game has move along very slowly due to work commitments from me and PP and study for Matrix and Markstar.
The story is:
PP has assembled approx 24 Immortals
I have assemble 13 Hops 13 Swords
We are about to move in unison towards the hill north of Oil Springs rubble (which in the previous pic showed an Iroquios unit with an elite spear on it)
Recon with horseman has revealed about 11 or so MW on the hill and another 11 behind it.
I have moved onto the rubble sqare and PP will move onto the jungle sqaure north west of it on his turn. Markstar will have to attack one of us or we shall take the hill. PP's immo's have the extra jungle defense. I have my hoplites on grassland. Markstar will probably go for the immo's..well thats what i would do..they will do some damage next turn otherwise.
On a side note: Markstar has map-making so now we need to be on the lookout for galleys. I have started to garrison my southern coast cities and build galleys. I can see some sort of landmass is not far to my south south east.
digger760
24-09-2004, 14:34
I can't beleive i forgot to update this.
Well the year is now 70BC and life as the greeks know it is soon at an end. Thats right the game is well and truely in Markstars grip now.
Since my last update, Markstar had a smashing victory on the Persian Immmortal stack wiping all 24 of them with very few losses, and he even had enough left to do damage to my stack as well.
I had no choice but to retreat to Thermoplayae to heal my hoplites.
A few turns later Markstar plops about dozen units within reach of Thermoplayes Swordman/Hoplite garrison. So i move out to attack, from memory i took about 4 MW, the rest retreated. I felt i had a chance to defend on jungle with fortified hoplites. But it is only after the battle report that i am now convinced that fortified units in PBEM takes a turn to come into effect as Markstar had no trouble killing all my hoplites and remaining swords.
This left me with about 2 hoplites in Thermoplayea and a with few re-inforecments on the way, it was only a matter of time for the greek demise.
It is now 70BC and with very little resistance, Markstar has Taken Thermoplayea, Athens, Mycanes and knossos. My GA has just ended and basically Greece is F~'ked.
I have a thin spread of hoplites in the rest of my cities incase markstar ever landed via the sea, and a few warriors further west, built after the Persian iron supply deal finished. Markstar has also cut the trade route to Persia as well.
Rumours are that Persia only has about 10 immortals and horsemen vs atleast 40-50MW and a vastly large productive land area. Discussions are in progress to seed the remaining lands to the Iroquois to complete the game in prompt fashion.
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