View Full Version : Dutch build musketman for 30 shields!!!
Kingreno
11-10-2003, 08:05
It is confirmed; the Dutch UU in conquest will be the swiss merc, replacing the pikeman. It will have 4 (!!!) defence instead of 3 while still priced 30 shields! Iron is required. [evil]
As expected the Dutch are seafaring and agricultural.
In other news (gamespot put the Dutch and Byzantines "in the spotlight") the byzantines will get a 2.1.3 galley [cry]
Seafaring and Commercial would have fitted really much better I feel... [sad]
That damn cheese, the wooden shoes and the tulips must have been decding factors for the agricultural feature :( Obviously the civ with the first stock exchange and the first multinational should have been commercial [wallbash]
Kingreno
11-10-2003, 09:32
Hmm...I do not know if agri is that bad, extra food sounds like a great bonus in the early game.
And on history, I think all 3 traits mentioned are in a way accurate for the dutch.
Still: a very usefull UU :D
DrAlimentado
11-10-2003, 14:29
not a bad UU... but defensive UU's are never as good as offensive ones as you have less say about triggering your GA imo. At least it comes at a better time than the early defensive UU's of greece and carthage.
I wonder which wonders will have what traits in C3C?
Shabbaman
11-10-2003, 18:35
Commercial would have been correct of course, I think that agricultural is powerful though. Strangely enough our country isn't agricultural at all, never truely has been at all, with a high population density.
Then again, imo agricultural is just a euphemism for 'backwards'.
I don't know what other untis will be added, but in PTW the swiss merc would be the best defense until rifles. It can withstand the knight and is twice as cheap!!
Combined with the free tech pottery and extra food (argicultural), this Dutch civ sounds like a very good one :D
@Shabba: the Dutch are agricultural, there's no denying imho. Think about the cows, the huge chicken- and pigfarms, the Dutch tomato (waterbomb as the Germans calls it ;) ), the cheese, the tulips.
Still I think that if one civ in the world should be called commercial, it's the Dutch.
Shabbaman
11-10-2003, 19:45
Sure. But that's all since the second half of the last decade... Remember, our country was marshy until the 17th century (iow low output)...
yes but with clear jungle, roads and irrigate we solved that problem
Lt. Killer M
28-10-2003, 10:14
well, actually, the Dutch should be commercial and medical - given all the antibiotics found in their cows and all the gene mutants they grow to poison us Germans with, tomotes, cucmbers etc.....
[:p]
Kingreno
28-10-2003, 10:17
Yes yes!! And our used condoms recycled for German chewing gum. yes yes! [cool]
Lt. Killer M
28-10-2003, 10:18
quote:Originally posted by Kingreno
Yes yes!! And our used condoms recycled for German chewing gum. yes yes! [cool]
ah, you didn't know that the Duales System Deutschland recycles OUT used condoms into your???????
Of course we knew, unfortunately the whole of Germany doesn't produce enough condoms to satisfy our agricultural nation
(you need at least 3 german ones to make a dutch one)
Lt. Killer M
28-10-2003, 10:29
quote:Originally posted by Swingue
Of course we knew, unfortunately the whole of Germany doesn't produce enough condoms to satisfy our agricultural nation
(you need at least 3 german ones to make a dutch one)
ah, well, given the constant wet sea breeze you have up there I understand you feel the need for a full-body condom - we prefer only to put it over the RELEVANT body part........
Holland has always been a very agricultural nation. I think it's just.
And indeed, I loved the Dutch Swiss Mercenary. ;)
Still I will mod the game. To me Holland only can be commercial/seafaring.
The two good things about it now: the Dutch are finally in and the editor is perfect to tailor things to your needs.
Expansionistic would fit, too. Think of the colonies etc.
And today, it's caravan expeditions...[mischief]
Lt. Killer M
30-10-2003, 08:16
quote:Originally posted by Grille
Expansionistic would fit, too. Think of the colonies etc.
And today, it's caravan expeditions...[mischief]
but that would mean a new UU with the stas 0/4/0.33 (can only move on roads and there only 1 tile) and the ability to block movements of all fast units in the neighbouring 8 tiles down to 1 [lol]
Shabbaman
30-10-2003, 08:20
quote:Originally posted by Matrix
And indeed, I loved the Dutch Swiss Mercenary. ;)
[:o]
Well, dutch commerce is (still) for a large part connected to seafaring. The seafaring gives a commerce bonus as well (on coastal tiles iirc), so seafaring and commercial would have some overlap. I find agricultural a bit strange, but I can see that foreigners view our country like that.
I think the civ traits are distributed strangely, and randomly... Look at the americans and the egyptians for instance. Now, the egyptians are industrious since they piled some rocks, but that was all for a religious purpose and they already had that trait. What made egypt stand out was the fact that they could produce two harvests on the fertile nile banks! So they should definately be agricultural.
The only reason that the dutch are (to some extent) agricultural is that there's nothing else to do here. The dutch climate doesn't give a huge advantage to agriculture...
And don't get me started on the americans... (I'll leave that for killer [estwing])
[shabba]
Lt. Killer M
30-10-2003, 08:24
no thanx, Shabba, I'd rather not comment - a mod would have to censor it anyways [:p]
quote:Originally posted by Shabbaman
[brThe only reason that the dutch are (to some extent) agricultural is that there's nothing else to do here. The dutch climate doesn't give a huge advantage to agriculture...
And don't get me started on the americans... (I'll leave that for killer [estwing])
I disagree! [rolleyes]
The Dutch climate is perfect for agriculture. We export just as much food as we consume ourselves. There isn't any agriculture more intense than here. So we are indeed agricultural masters. [coool]
About Americans: I agree it's not correct right now. IMO it should be commercial (no doubt about that!) and militaristic, looking at their tendency to control the world.
Doesn't matter to me how agricultural the Dutch are. CIV3 has only two traits and it should have been commercial / seafaring. Those traits made the Dutch a big player in the 17th century.
Shabbaman
31-10-2003, 08:52
quote:Originally posted by Matrix
The Dutch climate is perfect for agriculture. We export just as much food as we consume ourselves.
Where did you get that notion? The Netherlands is pretty far from self-sustainability.
Meat production yields are extremely high, at the cost of major environmental problems. The requirements for the production of non-animal food products, or crops, is actually twice as high as the production capability.
In net tons this might even out, but the underlying principles of meat and crop production in the Netherlands are fundamentally different: the meat production has a low local land requirement sustained by (mostly imported) fodder, i.e. not suitable for human consumption. Now, some of you might think that they'd just as well eat beef instead of vegetables...
For The Netherlands to become autarchic, it'd need a population below 10M. That's where the '10M club' originates.
I heard it from my brother who's doing environmentalism, so he should know. I'll ask again.
Shabbaman
31-10-2003, 10:44
You're brother is doing environmentalism? Funny. Where? Also in Grunn (then I should know him).
Yes.
Hij is AIO bij de IVEM. Hij heet Sander Lensink en z'n prof is Ton Schoot-Uitenkamp; z'n begeleider Michiel Berger.
Shabbaman
31-10-2003, 15:32
REALLY!
Well, he'd certainly know me as well. I'm not a ph.d. but of course I could still disagree with him. And iirc he's more into transportation... (and I checked the data so it could be I'm right [:p])
Funny. Although I doubt that michiel is really is advisor ;)
P.S. Threadjacking is fun.
Indeed, but let's continue through MSN nevertheless. ;)
Ribannah
29-11-2003, 13:57
Dutch agriculture was always advanced, and yield/acre and quality of Dutch agriculture excellent, but even during their Golden Age they imported grain from elsewhere (Scandinavia). So Commercial would be more accurate.
I also think that the UU is a bit strange. Almost all important battles for the Dutch were sea battles, so they should have gotten a naval UU like the Fluyt. One with an extra defence point. The Dutch fleet often beat the English because their ships could fight on longer after sustaining damage.
- Rib -
I love playing as the Dutch :)
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