View Full Version : Gubernator!
Lt. Killer M
08-10-2003, 07:31
well, I am still speechless. Will he turn out a European Commie leftist at heart? Or a little A.H.?
whaddaya think?
It's exactly the same story as Ronald Reagan in the seventies...
He's not a "commie" for sure Henry, he'll turn out to be just like Reagan : a speech machine controlled by crooked advisors working for the Military and Oil industries.
prettyvacant
08-10-2003, 08:55
This is a qoute from the BBC news website "This is wonderful. For the second time in our history, the people have risen up to throw a semi-socialist administration out of a governorship. Arnold is not the best choice in my opinion but he is light-years ahead of Gray Davis and the rest of the liberal-left establishment that has ruled that hapless state for too long."
a semi-socialist california - and I missed it!!! did you noticce anything strange when you were over there Killer?
He was voted via democratic ways. I don't think that he is the perfect governor ;). But I think that Arny is more clever than George W.
Lt. Killer M
08-10-2003, 09:02
well, what I noted recently is that he is far more to the left of most Republicans ;)
lucky me Idid not go to California, the commie camp [:p]
prettyvacant
08-10-2003, 09:57
quote:Originally posted by Aggie
I think that Arny is more clever than George W.
Is this supposed to be a compliment? My cat is cleverer than Dubya. But yeh, in comparison to some democrats AS is leaning to the left.
digger760
08-10-2003, 10:24
i would know my left from my right, i am not polictically minded.
@Sky they tell me here at work that Arnie can't go for President becuase you need to be born in the US to qualify....but they also tell me here that one of the bushes changed the laws so that criminals qualify (one of them had a drink driving charge or something like that)
Lt. Killer M
08-10-2003, 10:27
digger, AFAIK it is a law, not part of a constitutional amendment - so any majority can pass a new law saying you do NOT need to be born in the US. They did a change once to include ex-US territories, like USAF bases in germany and so on.
Yes Digger both statements (from work) are true, however I would not call "criminals" persons with an existing judiciary file that would be talking like the Bushes and their reactionary friends ...
To add to Killer's very good remark, there is *already* a law in the workings on Capitol Hill to change the "born on foreign soil ban" ....So Arnie in the White House could actually happen one day :D
[rolleyes]
Oh joy. The only thing that could make the USA more irritating to the rest of the world is Arnie getting in to the Whitehouse. These people don't realize what they are doing to themselves. :(
FWIW, I was watching the BBC a couple of days ago and they said that in California only 14% of people think Arnie is up to the job, but 43% say they would vote for him. [rolleyes][rolleyes][rolleyes][rolleyes][rolleyes][rolleyes][rolleyes][rolleyes]
jack merchant
08-10-2003, 12:42
quote:Originally posted by Skyfish
To add to Killer's very good remark, there is *already* a law in the workings on Capitol Hill to change the "born on foreign soil ban" ....So Arnie in the White House could actually happen one day :D
Well, the Democrats wouldn't mind that either it seems.... they have a good candidate in Michigan governor Jennifer Granhold (who was born in Canada). But from all I've read, I'm quite sure a constitutional amendment is required.
The democratic government type obviously has flaws. An example is that populists can get to power. It happened in Italy (Berlusconi), it happened in Holland (Fortuijn), it happened in the USA.
California is often called a hyper-demogcracy. The fact that they could get rid of the other governor this easily makes you wonder. How long before Arny has to go? Will they have elections every year?
"hyper democracy" [lol]
They have 75million inhabitants of which only 15million are registered, of which 40% vote of which 40% voted for Arnie [scratch] : the math geniuses can tell us how much is that in percentage of the pop but it dont sound that democratic to me ?
[lol]
Only 3.2% of the population voted for Arnie? Only 20% are registered at all????
I stick to my remark about hyperdemocracy. What people do or don't do with their voting opportunity is besides the point imho. A decision of the Californian government can be undone by the people with a referendum. This should have given more power to the people, but in fact it means that every unpleasant decision is vetoed. Unfortunatelly unpleasant decisions are sometimes needed...
I have learned to live with the fact that I will never understand how my countrymen think.
I really thought that GWB II was unelectable, having never done anything in his life other than get public funding for a baseball stadium and pocket millions in the transaction (oh and party a lot). There is a story about how a reporter was assigned to follow him around while he was govener of TX. Apparently he spent until noon each day playing video golf. The man is truly a dunce.
As for Arnie, what can I say? I am embarrassed for my nation, and my former state. I spent 30 years in CA.
I agree with Sky that Arnie will be little more than a talking head, just like Reagan. I also agree with Aggie as far as unpleasant decisions and the recall of Gov Davis. It is a very bad precedent.
@ anarres : knowing that it includes children et al. Yes, this is the figure.
@Aggie I am not saying your remark is wrong. I just got thinking about the term when you mentionned it.
It is true that Democracy also encompasses "responsibility" of the voter, and giving the "power of veto" to the people does not mean you are a bettter democracy...
I don't know if you guys know about Switzerland but its an extreme example of a beautiful system on paper which in reality is far from Democracy (i.e huge referendums powers to citizens).
But they wont vote Arnie away believe me, the opposite, he is a populist, Gray Davis wasnt' and that s why he did not last.
quote:Originally posted by Lt. Killer M
well, I am still speechless. Will he turn out a European Commie leftist at heart? Or a little A.H.?
whaddaya think?
Beware of those Austrians...[scared]
j/k
Now seriously.
I've heard that it was the highest turnout in the past 30 years.
So 3.2% of the pop voted for Arnie. Wow. Sounds like Arnie could have just mobilised his family and friends to go to the booth...
Then I wonder why the media makes such a big fuss about the vote if nobody over there seems to be really interested.[hmm]
Well, analysts say that Arnie must achieve *something* during the first 100 days in office, otherwise people (well, maybe just 3.2%...) would turn away.
Heck, in CFC OT is currently a poll about a mandatory voting system...
I wonder what "forced" voters would do (if they don't just make a blank vote).
In future, will politicians make a Hollywood career first?[rolleyes]
T4, featering Dubya?
[rabbit]
quote:will politicians make a Hollywood career first?
Well thats *already* the case and for a long time no ?
You mean more will politicians retire from politics and then go and have a Hollywoood carreer ?
That would be great, Clinton has serious Hollywood potential we all know that !
[crazyeye]
I am in favor of mandatory voting systems like they have in Belgium (its technically possible to put in place Grille) and indeed the blank vote is the biggest unkown weapon of a Democracy...
In a "majority" voting system, the blank votes [u]are</u> counted and you need 50% of the votes to get elected, blank votes are thus counted against you when you try to reach that 50% barrier...
Shabbaman
09-10-2003, 09:34
In belgium they've got a forced voting system. That's one of the reasons the 'nationalists' (could call them fascists, but I won't) get that many votes there.
Thats not true Shabba.
The "Nationalists" get as many votes in Belgium as in France, Italy or even Holland (Fortuijn/LPF) ...
And there's been studies showing no direct link between mandatory voting and extreme right vote.
Sky:
quote:
Well thats *already* the case and for a long time no ?
Well, I was referring to a very general case. Not necessarily limitted to the US, shouldn't have mentioned 'Hollywood'.
So in the end, we have a bunch of pop stars as candidates. (Some artist may have "serious" policy plans, though).
Don't vote policy plans, but vote a pretty photogenic face (well, whatever attraction is offered).
That's exactly where I'd think a mandatory voting system could even double the trouble. It's because I doubt that a mandatory system would increase the number of politically interested people.
I *could* imagine that the "Big-Brother-TV-Show" candidate or the "Fans Of Purple Beer Party" could harvest some votes in the worst case. Of course, this is a very, very pessimistic assumption.
On the other hand, if the uninterested, but forced voters come in a large number and then indeed vote blank in an absolute majority system, this blank vote could turn into a weapon against demo.
Sorry for slightly threadjacking, but I cannot specifically put a comment on Arnie, since I ...erm have absolutely no ideas of Californian problems or Arnie's plans...
[crazyeyes]
Shabbaman
09-10-2003, 10:53
quote:Originally posted by Skyfish
Thats not true Shabba.
The "Nationalists" get as many votes in Belgium as in France, Italy or even Holland (Fortuijn/LPF) ...
And there's been studies showing no direct link between mandatory voting and extreme right vote.
What's not true? It's not as if the 'nationalists' in our country always got 'that many' votes, and the Vlaams Blok is a bit more extremist. It is true if you'd ask me, that mandatory voting leads to more 'protest votes'.
quote:Originally posted by Skyfish
[quote]
That would be great, Clinton has serious Hollywood potential we all know that !
[crazyeye]
First american president who's filmed biography ends up in the porn section.[whipped]
Lt. Killer M
16-10-2003, 16:25
quote:Originally posted by ProPain
quote:Originally posted by Skyfish
[quote]
That would be great, Clinton has serious Hollywood potential we all know that !
[crazyeye]
First american president who's filmed biography ends up in the porn section.[whipped]
[lol] given the right girl to play the role of M.L. I wouldn't mind!
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