Eldakkar vs Stapel Deity (2 settlers) *spoiler*

[Eldakkar]

I am playing Stapel at the moment in a deity game in which we both have started with 2 settlers. These are the map specs:

Size: standard
Type: continents, we both have our own continent. The continents are not too far apart.
Eldakkar:Egyptians
Stapel:French
No barbs, the rest is random.

We are at turn 59. My empire is just small enough to fit in an unzoomed-screen grab:


http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/eldakkar/200393017575_stapelturn59.jpg
131.86*KB

As you see I built my capital on a horrible position. West is ocean, North is crappy plains and forest, south is crappy plains and forest, and east is somewhat better. On the bright side, I have a lot of room and a few tiles to the south is a real nice patch of land.

So my build strategy has become:

- build my FP as soon as possible
- Use my capital for settlering
- Use one of the somewhat corrupt, but fast growing cities in the south for a worker factory
- Develop a strong small core
- Let the ai settler the rest of the land
- Beat up the ai and take their cities.

Things are going ok now. I'll finish my FP in 1325 after which I have 8 good producing cities. I plan to have 10 workers active. This guarantees enough mfg goods, to build an army.

It was Stapels request to have the human opponents separated not too far from eachother so I'll have to bo on the lookout for an early naval invasion. Mapmaking had not been invented yet, though on my continent which is amazing. I am doing a polytheism gambit which should be succesful in 1125 bc.

I have 3 ai on the continent. the koreans, japanese and carthaginians. Only the korean seem to thrive, and luckily they are closest to me :D

[Skyfish]

You indeed have quite a lot of money from your min science gamble : didn't you ever come across slaves to buy ?

[Eldakkar]

Yes, but just one korean worker. I think that when ai have a lot of room to expand, and when they do not have war, they are not inclined to have workers in their capital :(

[Eldakkar]

Turn 68:

A new personal record for fast FP :D :



http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/eldakkar/200310718124_FP.jpg
86.52KB

MFG Goods increased from 25 to 39 which puts me into a shared no1 position. I now make 30 gold per turn. The Egyptian empire is prospering

[Skyfish]

Wow [goodjob]
That must be a build order like : Temple for 10 turns, whip and then Forbidden Palace.
No ?
Did you merge workers to speed up production ?

ps : the record is somewhat overshadowed by the fact that you got 2 settlers at teh start ;)

[Eldakkar]

It is true. In a straight deity this would never have happened, unless i popped a settler. The build order was granary, FP. maybe a warrior too, i cannot remember. But it's still nice to have your fp so early :)

[Eldakkar]

Turn 75: The egyptians invent polytheism. trading with the Ai gives me:
Horseback riding
Code of laws
Mapmaking
Mathematics
200+ gold
World map

This is the minimap of my continent.



http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/eldakkar/2003101518648_minimap75.jpg
5.34KB

The koreans are quite powerful. It will take some preparation to eliminate them. They have access to horses (2) and to iron. The medieval age is close and they will have pikemen fast. My war chariots are no match against those guys, so i think i will need knights.

The main demographics in the current turn (78)



http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/eldakkar/2003101518956_dem78.jpg
3.06KB

I think i will contact the other continent the next turn, if I have contacts and stapel doesn't he will have a hard time :D

Those are the arab borders. This also means that stapel is not nearby, which is great because I won't have to fear a naval assault from him.


http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/eldakkar/20031015181139_arabsho.jpg
24.17KB

[anarres]

Getting to trade with Polytheism is a real bonus, I can never get to research it and trade. :)

I presume you will be sending galleys out soon to find Stapel? My biggest mistake playing PBEM's so far was not sending galleys out to meet Kemal in our game. His few turns of contacts ahead of me really gave him a good edge in signing MA's against me.

[Eldakkar]

turn 79

[dance2]

I found Stapel and got to trade around polytheism on the other continent as well. The spoils this time:

philosophy
220 gold
17 (!) per turn
world map

on my own continent i traded philosophy around for 130 gold.

I made embassies with all ai on stapels continent. Stapel is at war with both the greeks and the romans :D. The arabs are at war with the romans. Stapel and the Arabs have a MA for which stapel is paying at least 17 gold p/t, which flows directly into my treasury!!

Stapel is really behind on techs:


http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/eldakkar/20031015192617_stapelanalf.jpg
42.23KB

He is doing a tech gambit:



http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/eldakkar/20031015192735_paris79.jpg
189.92KB

which miserably fails because all ai are at tech par with me.

he is behind:
mysticism
polytheism
iron working
mathematics
horseback riding

It will be difficult to keep up for him!!

The minimap:


http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/eldakkar/20031015193034_minimap79.jpg
7.57KB

[thumbsup]

[Eldakkar]

Turn 94:

I have maximized science output to get to republic first. I hoped to bag a medieval tech with a monopoly republic. It didn't work out. The greeks invented republic 5 turns before me [mad].

What is worse, I think i was a little early in enjoying stapels backward position in technology. It is very probable that he will build the GL himself!! From scratch. An impressive feat on deity. In his game against aggie he did the same and got it in turn 105. Assuming he will do the same here he will get it, as I do not think the ai will get it before that. All their Great Lighthouse prebuilds are in horrible cities.

http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/eldakkar/200311173226_GLrheims.jpg
11.85KB

Rheims has at least 11 shields.
If he gets to the GL, we will be back at square one again.

My cities have little possibility of growing any further due to luxury problems, so the strategy is to go to war as soon as possible and see if I can clobber Wang Kon. Too bad the koreans have developed significant power :(



http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/eldakkar/20031117341_minimap94.jpg
8.53KB

[Eldakkar]

turn 123

This is an overview of the egyptian empire in this turn:



http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/eldakkar/2003111674128_empire123.jpg
135.62*KB

The forbidden palace and the palace are circled in blue and red.

In turn 116 Japan declared war on me, and soon after Korea joined them in the war against me. In the same turn a golden age was triggered, much needed to build knights.

Japan is weak and no problem, korea is not and is putting in a fair share of knights themselves, so things are going slowly.

I have only two luxes. The koreans have one gem in the east of their country which i desperately need. So they need to be eliminated. The next few turns will be turns with lots of fighting.

Trading with the other continent is not possible because Stapel is tearing apart the only possible trading partner.

This is the minimap in turn 123:



http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/eldakkar/2003111674844_minimap123.jpg
9.2*KB

I think stapel and i are equally powerful. He has a stronger army, but we are too far apart for him to reach me.

Education has just been invented so stapels Great Library has finally become obsolete. All powerful empires have education and invention.

These are the interesting demographics of turn 123:



http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/eldakkar/2003111675258_dem123.jpg
2.96*KB

226 mfg goods is great, but it is mainly due to the golden age. The nr 2 which i assume to be france is at 112 mfg goods.

I am unsure about my long term strategy. I thnik i can outtech stapel at least until in the industrial age, but i think he can catch up then, also because of the wretched steals. So a spaceship is not what i have in mind.

Another possibility would be to race to mil. tradition and whoop him with cavalry before he controls his entire continent. the problem is that my core and his core are very far from each other.

A third possibility would be to try to reach steam power, nationalism, rep parts and simply overrun him with a mobilized empire spawning tons of infantry.

The military option 2 is best I think. Especially since i got a leader the previous turn which rushed leo's workshop. If somebody doesn't beat me to it i will have leo's in turn 124.

[ERIKK]

How do you know France has 112 mfg? Did you count and assumed his tiles and then subtracted an
assumed ammount of corruption&waste??? [confused]

Impressive war effort, with those strong Koreans with knights as your enemy! You jumped the
Palace or did got a leader?

[Eldakkar]

No, I did not count tiles. At the end of my turn I removed shields until I went 2nd in the mfg goods category. That was at 112 shields! Stapel has strong RCP. It is definitely him who is 2nd. Ai rarely have more mfg goods than the human player if the humans get things going. ( it is a bit silly, but i am a sucker for statistics) :)

The war is going slowly but i am making progress. The cities closest to the korean homeland have pikes, catapults, and walls, so they do fine at keeping the koreans at bay. Meanwhile my stack of knights (23 atm) is going east, then north. My nearby palace reduces chancing of flipping enormously!

I jumped the palace. The larger cities each built 2 workers which i used to dogpile my new capital location. At size 11 i had enough points to abandon Thebes. I did get a leader later on which i used for leo's :)

[Pastorius]

great work. just keep [hammer]ing them.
Subscribed to this <--- where is the damn subscription button [aargh]

Thanks anarres

[anarres]

You should the subscriptions link now Paalikles, the option for subsciptions was missed when the forum was set up.

Also polls are now available.

[Eldakkar]

Turn 128:


http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/eldakkar/2003111719424_suntzu.jpg
61.96KB
:D

Sun Tzu and Leo's = Warmongerer's delight.

I think I will go for the cavalry option. the greeks have gunpowder, i have banking at 2 turns, so i can trade gunpowder I hope. From gunpowder it is only 3 techs to cavalries. Getting to those should be easy, especially since my empire is growing very rapidly:



http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/eldakkar/20031117194556_dem128.jpg
2.86KB

compare these demographics to the ones 5 turns ago. 51 extra mfg goods and 83 extra gnp. Too bad i also have war weariness now, so i'm playing at 20% luxury tax. Still 7 turns of GA to go! 6 cities will have universities in 5 turns. After those it will be horsebuilding time and cheap upgrading time :)

[Eldakkar]

we are at turn 138:

Invented banking in turn 130. The Greeks would not trade their monopoly gunpowder against my banking. So i took to researching music theory in 4 turns.

In turn 132 I lost 5 knights against knights and pikes of the koreans so i made peace with them. I already took enough cities to have a good second core and, which is more important, i took their gems, thus obtaining my third lux. When i have cavalries i'll wipe them out. :)

Turn 134 gave me music theory and when i was about to trade banking and music theory for gunpowder and 29 p/t Stapel announced that he was researching gunpowder and would have it next turn.

Thanks Stapel!! [cool]
Not having to pay the deity monopoly bonus, I traded banking for gunpowder and 35 p/t with the greeks and banking with the koreans for 44 p/t

Mean while the japanese warriors and archers flooded my land only to be trampled by my knights. This war has made for some really great leader fishing.

I got a third leader with which i rushed JS Bachs in turn 136.
The next turn gave the fourth leader ( i am very lucky with leaders in this game) who is waiting for a new wonder to complete.


http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/eldakkar/2003112118354_mentuhotep.jpg
3.82KB

I thought about making an army but I am not convinced of the use of an army above three separate units in this case, where i expect to steamroll the ai.
I now possess the 3 best wonders of the Medieval age. I have never had all three before and i am VERY happy with it :)


http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/eldakkar/2003112117555_wonderen138.jpg
69.76KB

The interbellum has begun now so the next turns should be a bit boring.
My Golden Age has ended: these are the specs of the empire:

http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/eldakkar/20031121175646_dem138.jpg
2.87KB

Still nr 1 in both categories. Stapel informed me that he has built his first musketeer. His GA will soon come i think after which i will drop to 2nd place.

The f1 screen:



http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/eldakkar/20031121175753_f1turn138.jpg
22.15KB

At a deity standard map chemistry is 2400 beakers. So i will research it in 5 turns
Metallurgy is 2560. I think i will be a few beakers short of getting 4 turns with that.
Mil. Tradition is also 2560. I'm hoping to get this in 4 turns.

I have disconnected all iron and started building 2 turn horsies in the cities that already have a university.

Mil. Tradition is due in 11 turns. I expect to have 25 new vet horses by then, which can be upgraded to cavalries. Along with the 19 knights i will have 44 cavs in 11 turns.

11 turns until hammer-time! :D

[estwing] [estwing] [estwing] [estwing] [estwing] [estwing]
http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/eldakkar/20031121181020_wangkon.jpg
5.98KB

[Stapel]

Congrats!

[Eldakkar]

Thank you Stapel,

Stapel has his own of saying I give up by sending me his last turn and showing me this:



http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/eldakkar/20031129152221_stapelgeeftop.jpg
43.08KB

Euhhh, looks like I've won :)

Stapel gave up because I landed vast amounts of cavalry on his lands and bribed all ai against him. As he was putting it: he did not want to wait like a masochist, so he rather burned his civ himself.
The military advisor in the last turn and the minimap:

http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/eldakkar/20031129152426_military.jpg
107.92KB

Lots of cavalries. With Leo's 7 cavs per turn were built. In my next PBEM, i'm gonna ask leonardo workshop to be deactivated if possible. IMHO it is just too powerful. Not that i was bothered too much by that in this game of course :D

Thank you Stapel for a great game! I enjoyed it thoroughly! [goodjob]

[ERIKK]

I hate people playing like that, disconnecting towns with
saltpeter/rubber (Bamspeedy) and then upgrading. It spoils the game
as the AI doesnt have a clue. I bet Stapel did not disconnect his
towns. He could give up the moment he started the game as his
opponent will run over the AI for sure!

That's how think about this... I sorry to say but winning like this
will not give me much satisfaction (dumb AI) and even more when the
human opponent (Stapel) does note. You should make an agreement about
this or not do it all (my favorite).

ps: I dont hate you, I hate this gameplay.

[Eldakkar]

:)

That is very clear Erikk!

"wat heb ik nou aan mijn fiets hangen" I would say in dutch.

If i ever will play against you, or anyone else who feels this way, we will make agreements about this type of "exploiting"

[ERIKK]

Yup, your reply is a bit too early I just edited it with the same thought.

[Skyfish]

quote:In my next PBEM

I see so you *will* play another one hu ? [groucho]

What should be disallowed is the abusive resource disconnection exploit, not Leos of course ;)

[Eldakkar]

You are a careful reader. Maybe I will :)

Yes you are right, I also believe upgrading has become more expensive in C3C.

[Skyfish]

Congrats on a great win nonetheless Eldakkar [thumbsup]
You are on your way to an unbeaten record just like somebody you know so much better than us ;)