View Full Version : Killer gets mmed to death again -Map Finally Made-
Lt. Killer M
18-09-2003, 16:23
bla
large map, 80% water, small islands (no bigger than 20 tiles on an island), no vikings on the map.
I took the liberty of adding the description from anarres post :), what level? what civs?- or confirm mapmakers choice, and why no AI vikings??
DrAlimentado
18-09-2003, 16:24
hehe... well once they agree the params I've got this!
I'll outline some slight mods to this game shortly... watch this space
IIRC we said large map, 80% water, small islands (no bigger than 20 tiles on an island), no vikings on the map.
We never decided civs, but I am happy to let the map maker choose vaguely balanced civs.
Killer, got anything else you want? I would like you to be 'actively happy' with this, not just 'satisfied'. :)
I assume Deity level unless Killer specifies otherwise.
The 'No Vikings' thing was there because whoever starts near them will have a much harder time. The reason the AI are so shit with them is that they never build them, or they do build them and send them overland (even on Pangaea's they are better off aroung the coast in boats). I imagine on a map like this with no 'overland' at all they could be a real menace. If you managed to include Vikings and not have it unbalance the map hugely I would be happy, but I think that's a tall order...
Lt. Killer M
18-09-2003, 18:03
Deity light, please. I hate it when the AIs can build culture faster than I can whip it AND show up with 200 troops in 3000 AD....
Whats wrong with 200 troops at 3000AD?[smokin]
How about the Deity Light where we AI and human get 1 settler instead of 2? I prefer that.
Are you happy with leaving the civs to DrA to try and balance too? Personally I think Commercial and Military will be powerful traits, and Expansionist and Religous will be poor ones. The different UU's will be very differently powered on a map like this too...
Lt. Killer M
19-09-2003, 08:52
anarres, that's what I call deity light! Two settlers is deity plus, as there is more units than normal deity......
I am fine with anything. I will have to learn to mm, and that will take time, so I will lose anyways. So it will be a learning game and I do not really care with what civ and traits ;)
Well if you're so sure of losing how about conceding now? :D
Edit: I just realised that I want increased espionage costs! Killer, if double is too much in your eyes how about costs at 150%?
You;re really desperate to get tha no1 position back anarres.
Lt. Killer M
19-09-2003, 11:21
anarres, the more expensive the better for the micromanager..... :p
go ahead with double. and, btw, we could ban RCP fully, while we are at it: no two cities in the first tring may have the same distance from the capital :p
Killer - I am not going to agree to no 2 cities sharing the same rank - that's even more prohibative than following RCP! Can you imagine having one city at 3 - the next has to be distance 4 or 4.5, the next at 5 or 5.5. There is no chance to make any decisions yourself.
Maybe I can agree to not more than 2 cities at the same distance, although that will also be prohibative to natural city founding. Don't you think with islands no more than 20 tiles RCP will not be possible anyway?
Also Killer, DrA was thinking of giving lethal bombardment for planes and ships - is this OK? He was also thinking of looking for a good naval mod at CFC to try...
Lt. Killer M
19-09-2003, 12:31
yeah, all fine. how is your leg? by now it must be decidedly too long for your pants considering how hard I pulled it :p
RCP is fien with me. jsut don't jump your Palace to Antarctica
@DrA: what is the status of this one?
Lt. Killer M
10-10-2003, 15:00
no status whatsoever :(
DrAlimentado
10-10-2003, 15:06
fuck
DrAlimentado
10-10-2003, 18:16
I have finally made a map (the mod part was done a while ago), it will take a while to balance it though. Espeically as the editor refuses to distribute any luxes whatsoever on it!
re: difficulty level, I think the ai will really struggle on a map like this. I'm going to do a quick test once I'm done but full deity may be more appropriate than you think :D
DrAlimentado
14-10-2003, 19:37
Hmm... testing reveals some slight issues with the AI. They are going to suffer badly on this map, so I have made some more changes which will hopefully help them out a bit. another test and hopefully all will be fine!
In the meantime have a butchers at the changes I have made to the rules:
Naval Mod.
tirieme - new ship with pottery, was transport=1 but AI refused to load settlers onto them (because they would be unescorted?) so they are now t=2 and -1hp.
ancient and medieval ships past galley get +1 movement.
medieval ships get slight stat changes to better differentiate them from ancient.
Ironclad moves to corporation to prolong the age of sail (to make frigates worth building hopefully)
modern ships get +2 movement, destroyers get +3 and detect invisible. (destroyers can now be properley used to screen a carrier fleet)
slight stat changes to better differentiate them from medieval ships, Battleship gets a big increase to give it some oomph, and cost goes up from 20s to 30s.
carrier gets transport=6. subs are boosted more too, they should now pose a real threat to unscreened fleets.
planes have lethal sea bombard. operational ranges increased.
cruise missiles are slightly more deadly and have 'tactical missile' ability so can be carried and fired from nuke subs and aegis cruisers. (cannot be carried by transports anymore)
nuke subs can carry 3 missiles, aegis 1 missile.
ALL civs get 'build naval units' AI flag toggled. without it they are very stubborn about building ships in the early game...
[where shield values are given they are x10 in game]
tirieme: (pottery) 1.1.2 (t2) -1hp cost=2 (upgrades to Galley) uses galley gfx.
galley: 1.1.3(t2) -nc
caravel: 1.2.3 (t3) --> 1.2.4(t3)
frigate: 2.2.4(2.1.2) --> 3.2.5(3.1.2)
galleon: 1.2.4(t4) --> 2.2.5(t4)
ironclad: (steam) 4.4.4(4.1.2) --> 4.4.4(4.1.2) (corporation)
transport: 1.4.5(t8) --> 1.5.7(t8)
carrier: 1.8.4(t4planes) --> 1.9.6(t6planes)
sub: 8.4.3 --> 10.6.5 (upgrades to Nuke Sub)
destroyer: 12.8.5(6.1.2) --> 14.10.8(10.2.2) (see invisible)
battleship: 18.12.5(8.2.2) --> 24.16.7(16.3.4) (20s -> 30s)
Aegis: 12.10.5(4.2.2) --> 14.14.7(10.3.2)(t1 missile)
NukeSub: 8.4.4(t1missile)--> 12.6.6(t3 missiles)
cruise missile: (16.2.3) --> (16.3.4) [tactical missile ability]
fighter: range 4 --> range 6
bomber range 6 --> range 8
helicopter range 6 --> range 8
jet fighter range 6 --> range 8
stealth fighter range 8 --> range 12
stealth bomber range 12 --> range 16
new unit: scandinavian merc - early amphib unit, uses zerk gfx; comes with invention.
scand. merc. (invention) 4.1.1 (amphibious) cost=7
Anarres vs Killer Islands hell specific changes;
great wall gives wall in every city! otherwise the AI are just wasting shields when they build it.
All continental effect wonders now give the effect in all cities instead.
Lt. Killer M
15-10-2003, 08:21
[eek] indeed!
DrAlimentado
17-10-2003, 19:13
*phew* finished at last :D
well I finally got the AI doing shit! with the build naval units flag on and tiriemes available without any tech (like warriors) the AI actually does the right thing... builds lots of boats and settles everywhere in sight! w00t!
I have played through the ancient age on deity light and err... I actually found it pretty tough. I even had to fend off a pesky AI amphibious invasion [:O]! You have been warned... ;)
I have also tested all the changes to modern units etc. and I am confident nothing is bugged out as such. The AI can't really cope with some of the strategic changes to destroyers and subs etc. but then it never could use that stuff anyway ;)
What it will do is what it always does... just build the best units available and use them haphazardly. But creaming the AI once you are post-industrial is a no-brainer, and hopefully you guys will get to late-industrial/modern and we will see some strategic uses of planes vs subs vs destroyers against eachother [satan]
here it is:icon_paperclip.gif anarres vs Killer 4000BC.SAV (http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/DrAlimentado/2003101719955_anarres vs Killer 4000BC.SAV)
anarres is up first, pw is 'admin'
enjoy! :)
DrAlimentado
17-10-2003, 19:17
And just be aware that the civlopedia lies about tiriemes and scandinavian mercs! It does get all the units stats right of course but tells fibs in the descriptions ;) It would be easy to fix this but would involve having a scenario folder with a new civlopedia.txt. Same goes for new units using old gfx, easily changeable but it seemed a bit overkill to make you install a scenario for just 2 units...
coolio DrA!
[worship][worship][worship][worship][worship][worship][worship][worship][worship][worship]
Lt. Killer M
18-10-2003, 13:02
wow, cool!
DrAlimentado
18-10-2003, 14:11
I guess I should fess up to 2 'undocumented' changes too ;)
one biggie: vikings get a longship with mm that is 1.1.4 - no sink in sea - can't trigger GA. This is to compensate for the other civs getting a zerk-lite unit [tongue] The AI still dosen't know how to use vikings though so don't worry about it. (uses galley gfx)
one minor 'mistake': Paras get 7 attack instead of 6, I did fiddle with the marines and paras at one point but thought it was a step too far and set them back, err.. almost. Just got the original attack of paras wrong [blush]
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