Kemal vs Moonsinger *Spoiler*

[Kemal]

We've started this game some time ago, we're now at turn 65. Specs for this game are as usual (for me): deity, continents, sedentary barbs, 6 AI opponents.

Much effort was put into the map by the creator of our world, Skyfish, who after initial scouting of the surrounding lands became known among the people of my civilization as Skyfish the Cruel, and some nice tweaks have been made resulting amongst others in me playing as "The Spacemans" (Iroquois) and Moonsinger as "The Dairy Farmers" (China).

Here's my starting location for this game at the southern tip of a continent, not a very great location as already irrigation troubles can be foreseen:

http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/Kemal/2003825152837_startloc.jpg
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(Notice another tweak by the mapmaker, starting me off with a different capital name, hinting at my RL name)

After 22 turns of scouting around, it becomes apparent that the Spacemans seem to need to learn to drink seawater to survive, as these are the lands surrounding my capital:

http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/Kemal/2003825152934_snertland.jpg
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It gets a bit better further to the north, although the Japanese and Zulus (:() are just west and north of these lands:

http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/Kemal/2003825153020_goedland.jpg
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Here's how it stands at the minimap, and in an overview picture:



http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/Kemal/2003825153055_overviewrotland.jpg
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http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/Kemal/2003825153115_minimap23.jpg
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Since I'm expansionistic, I hoped for some luck in getting great goody huts, but unfortunately they only resulted in deserted and 25 gold in the nearby lands. However, I did did find one settler, to the extreme northwest of the continent, approximately 50 tiles away from my capital, so not the greatest of places to get one. Still better than a deserted hut of course. On the bright side, I've been able to buy two japanese workers fairly early in the game, for pottery and some gpt.

Now, even though we've already progressed to turn 65, and I can no longer change the course I've taken in this game in terms of early empire development, I'm curious what you, the reader of my spoilers, would do to approach the problems posed by this map. I've been very doubtful on what tactic in city placement and early expansion I'd follow, and I'm interested in what other players think of it, and suggestions and/or comments would be most welcome. :)

I'll post an update to how the game has progressed after these initial 25 turns soon.

[ERIKK]

Wow, nice starting location, Sky must really hate you... ;)

[digger760]

would a palace jump be worth it with the settler you popped from the hut, it sounds like you found the settler up near the river. Or maybe you can use the one your building.

[Skyfish]

This is an obvious case of Palace Jump by abandonment at your earliest convenience, I sure hope you did not build a granary in the Capital :D
Boy, who is the asshole that made such a map ?

[Kemal]

Unfortunately, here's already the final update to this spoiler as we've decided to draw this game (no ladder consequences).

As you said Digger, and as Skyfish, according to his comment, obviously meant it to be, indeed the dehydrated denizens of the Iroquois capital Jillicity prepared for a jump to the more comfortable lands in the north, and it was in turn 46(!) that Jillicity was no more than a ghostly ruin watching the southern tip of the continent, and was only spoken of again in tales to scare the Iroquois children, as an utterly barren and forsaken place of despair:

http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/Kemal/200392214011_startverlaten.jpg
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I did build a granary in Jillicity, for the simple reason that for the jump to have any positive effects, I needed the jump to compensate for the 5 uncorrupted shields in Jillicity. As each city always has at least 1 uncorrupted shield itself, this means that those far away cities will probably only have 1 corrupted shield which the palace jump will compensate for as long as their size 1.

In other words, I need to have at least several cities in the region I jump the capital to for it to have any positive effects. I expected those settlers were all to be made in Jillicity, therefore a granary seemed a valid choice to me. However, the free settler did speed up things, allowing the jump to be made faster than expected.

At that time, my free settler had just completed its 15 turn voyage back to civilization, settling just west of the newly formed capital of Grand River:

http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/Kemal/200392214158_empireturn46.jpg
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As can be seen, AI empires are already very close to my borders, so I decided to use a military approach to the game, going for only a single, small core, and utilize the Iroquois' UU, the Mounted Warrior, to conquer terrain instead of colonizing and developing it myself. Fortunately, as my neighbours were much more advanced than I was, I had the opportunity to trade the Zulu contact with the Romans at one time, giving me the crucial tech of the wheel, and thus the location of horses on the map, for free (together with some gold).
A single Iroquois wiseman then proceeded to research the secrets of polytheism, which with a little luck could be sold for great profit to our neighbours in 40 turns.

Over the next 30 turns, I used Niagara Falls as a half-decent settler factory, after pop-rushing a granary there, for empire expansion , while my other cities focused on barracks and workers, and later chariots for an upgrade. Sadly there were some unfortunate moments in those 30 turns, as the brave Iroquois desert-hardened warriors apparently had problems drinking the fresh water brought to them via the rivers, being used to the salt seawater near their former capital, as I got struck by disease 4 times in 30 turns. :(

A good thing was that while I was building up my army, the AI stayed weak due to me trapping and sending back settlers they tried to get to the location of my former capital, at one point I had a triple Japanese settler combo blocked:

http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/Kemal/200392222626_settlerblock.jpg
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Here's what my empire looked like at that time, in turn 77, 3 turns from polytheism, and with about 5 chariots finished:

http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/Kemal/200392222738_turn77empire.jpg
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And the demographics:

http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/Kemal/200392223223_demographs77.jpg
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Note that the jump seems to have been succesful, with a 7th place in both gnp and mfg. goods, even though a city with a granary has been disbanded for it.

As I stated above, the game has ended now, still pretty much in the opening phases, so not much to tell about who was winning, but I found it an exciting game nonetheless.

[Moonsinger]

quote:Originally posted by Kemal
As I stated above, the game has ended now, still pretty much in the opening phases, so not much to tell about who was winning, but I found it an exciting game nonetheless.

I'm glad you feel that way.:) Many thanks to both you and Aggie for giving me the experience on PBEM.:) I'm sorry that we have to end the game early. You both are excellent and kind players, and I really hate to meet you on the battlefield. After all those hours of playing, I finally realized that there will come a time that one of us will have to lose.[cry] There will come a time that one of us will have to destroy the beautiful world that each of us have spent countless hours building up from scratch. I don't think I'm ready for that. It was a great game and thanks again for the wonderful experience.:)

PS: I hope you don't mind me posting this exact message in Aggie thread. Otherwise, he may think I like you more.;)

[Ehecatl Atzin]

Well, me and Moonsinger will meet on the battle field, or where ever that may happen to be ;)

[Moonsinger]

quote:Originally posted by Ehecatl Atzin
Well, me and Moonsinger will meet on the battle field, or where ever that may happen to be ;)

Nope, that day shall never happen because I intend to launch my spaceship and leave the planet for you to conquer.

[Ehecatl Atzin]

quote:Originally posted by Moonsinger
Nope, that day shall never happen because I intend to launch my spaceship and leave the planet for you to conquer.


Aha! space ship race, huh? [hammer]