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View Full Version : Gothmog vs. Skyfish ***Spoiler***


Gothmog
01-08-2003, 17:14
OK, my second PBEM. I am playing against Skyfish and we decided to keep it real by having me play as America and he as France. I know, I know, I donít get a UU Ė but I figured the little Chieftain could use all the help he can get! ;) Plus he has to have pink units. Hereís my start:

http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/gothmog/200381161148_GvS1.jpg
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Not bad, Iíll be able to make 5fpt as soon as I can get that FP irrigated. I havenít played as an expansionist civ in a while so I set out to build 4 scouts, then a Granary. Iím going to do zero research and save my cash for trades. I find four huts pretty early and get: nothing, conscript, nothing, conscript. Eh, not so good but at least I got some free MPís.

Pretty soon I spot an Iroquois scout to my NW. I donít do any trades with him right off, hoping Iíll meet someone else and do a bit of middleman trading, maybe even lower the price of certain techs. This pays off as a few turns later I meet the Germans to my south. Here are the trades I make, first with the Iroquois:

http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/gothmog/200381161224_GvS2.jpg
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Then with the Germans.

http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/gothmog/200381161252_GvS3.jpg
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Iím still up Masonry on the Germans so I check them every round. The very next turn I get lucky and Biz has a worker for sale. I take this trade even though Iím not getting full value (from the AI perspective at least) out of Masonry. Extra workers are great, and Iím learning not to think about exploits any more.

http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/gothmog/200381161322_GvS4.jpg
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I pop another hut over by the Iroquois and get nothing. My second conscript is heading home, being replaced on Northern scouting duties by my fourth scout. On his way he popís a hut and I get that expansionist dream Ė advanced tribe! Of course I would have preferred a settler, and the location isnít ideal, but this is great! Cheap granaries are good, but as an expansionist you need to get some bonus from early huts or youíve been shortchanged.

http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/gothmog/200381161348_GvS5.jpg
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That's all for now, we're only on turn 14 atm.

ProPain
01-08-2003, 17:23
LOL, I started a game agaist Sky yesterday. He Persia, me Iroquois. 2nd turn I pop a settler from a hut, seems playing against sky gets you free cities [lol]

anarres
01-08-2003, 17:39
So RCP at distance 5 then Gothmog? ;)

Gothmog
01-08-2003, 19:00
I pitty the poor chieftain.

Heh, I don't have much good land around my capital (big pile of jungle between me and the Germans to my South) so I may do a ring at even closer range, 3.5 or 4. I haven't mapped it out yet (don't even have a granary yet). Exploit my ass.

anarres
01-08-2003, 19:08
quote:Originally posted by Gothmog

Exploit my ass.No thanks, attractive though it may be. [:o]

Gothmog
01-08-2003, 21:11
Ah, the pun. By far the most advanced form of humor.

Gothmog
15-08-2003, 16:34
Hehehe, I got a free settler from a hut! I sent him up to a 3.5 distance spot on the river east of the grapes.

http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/gothmog/2003815152930_GvS1.jpg
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Meanwhile the Iroquois researched Warrior Code so I wasnít able to profit from that sale.

http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/gothmog/2003815152953_GvS2.jpg
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I bought another worker from the Germans.

http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/gothmog/2003815153022_GvS3.jpg
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And another from the Iroquois, they actually had two for sale but I could only afford one. Wish I had Warrior Coded them.

http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/gothmog/2003815153117_GvS4.jpg
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I produced a settler and built one to the West of Washington. I put it at distance 4 because the location on the river on the coast was too good to pass up. I just learned about the Ďround down to nearest integerí rule in RCP. My territory really doesnít lend its self to RCP so Iím not worrying about it. I put another city to the East of Washington at distance 4, so I guess my distance 3.5 and 4 cities are in the same ring - that's cool.

I had forgotten that we are playing on continents, that does mute my bonus from being expansionist somewhat. I probably only needed two or three scouts.

So The Iroquois and Germans are my neighbors, and Sky has the Greeks and Chinese. Iíve explored the whole continent and am not too impressed with the territory, I am sending a couple scouts home to be disbanded. I'll try to get MM asap, but am not sure how to proceed.

The Iroquois and Germans both have Iron Working, the Germans have mysticism and the Iroquois have The Wheel, but I canít afford either due to my worker purchases. Iíll get the rest of my cash back in a few turns. I am somewhat unsure how to play the research game in this situation, currently I have a min run going on Alphabet Ė but I am guessing somebody will research it before me. Techís are pretty expensive @ miser for brokering purposes. I guess I need to tag along, get horseback riding and do some pointy stick research on Germany. I donít really want to deal with Mounted Warriors.

Opinions?

ERIKK
15-08-2003, 16:45
- So it is 3-3-2(?) on the continents?
- With 2 bonus cities and 2 extra workers you can go for a war-economy quite fast
- So do the Germans first and then the Iroquios with Knights, I agree

anarres
15-08-2003, 16:53
Without a map of your continent it is difficult to give a considered opinion, but going for MM seems the right thing to do, and taking out neighbours early has obvious benifits...

Gothmog
15-08-2003, 18:16
Yeah, I thought I had a screen shot from last night's turn, but I guess it didn't get saved. I'll bring in a better picture next week.

It's a small map with max land, there are six civs as you can see in some of the above screen shots. I'm just assuming that all the remaining civs are on the same continent. I guess there may be three though.

I actually have three slaves, I got one from Germany for Masonry earlier in the game.

The question is how to get MM asap.

I have to buy at miser to be able to broker - that is not cheap. Is it better for me to buy @ miser and broker (when possible) while doing min research, buy @ 3rd while doing min research, research a tech one of my opponents has @max and hope to sell to the other, research a tech both of my opponents have @ max, or try to research a tech neither has @max?

Currently I am hoping that the brokerage will still be on the table when I get my gpt back from Germany, and doing 40 turn research on alphabet (about 10 turns in now). I am worried that I'll buy The wheel from the Iroquois @ miser and that my owning it will devalue it so much that I wont be able to afford myst from Germany. I could just wait and buy the Wheel @3rd and forget about myst.

I have about the same # of cities as my opponents and should overtake them pretty soon.

anarres
15-08-2003, 18:35
Since the AI's haven't got alphabet yet you can probably do writing @ min and sell it around before the others get it.

Apart from that I wouldn't spend money on a tech unless you think you can buy from one and sell to the other, but as you say, it will be devalued by when you purchase it, and you pay the 50% tech lead penalty if you buy a tech that only one has. All in all, brokering with just 2 civs is nigh on impossible. Much better to get a tech no-one has and buy them all @ miser.

Gothmog
20-08-2003, 22:09
So I decided to increase my research on alphabet to max. I was still a few turns from it when out of nowhere, Germany declared war on me. No demands or anything, just war [???]. I thought, OK not so bad I'll just kick some german behind and then get some techs from them. But then three turns later the iroquois demanded all my gold (18), and I was doing deficit research at the time so it would have cost me a building. I refused and they joined the mini-dogpile. So I swapped my builds over to mostly spears and archers and prepared to rush the racks still being built. I don't know if the Iroquois have HB yet, but I hope not.

Another 5 or so turns have passed since then and I haven't seen any Germans, they must be slogging though the jungle. The Iroquois did move two warriors next to New York and actually killed a spear I had defending there (grrrrr). I plan to relieve them of Tonawanda (next to the Ivory), before making them beg for peace. Of course if I see one MW I'll probably make peace asap.

Here's the current demographics so you can see why I am not very worried.

http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/gothmog/200382021637_GvS1.jpg
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and here are some pretty current world maps.

http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/gothmog/200382021813_GvS4.jpg
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http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/gothmog/200382021831_GvS2.jpg
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http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/gothmog/200382021854_GvS3.jpg
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Gothmog
25-09-2003, 21:52
So the war goes on, Iíve been collecting archers to go destroy Tonawanda and settle near that Ivory and getting some defense set up. Meanwhile a stack oí Germans finally made its way north, a spear and three archers. I build a wall in Boston where they are going to attack. Writing comes in:

http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/gothmog/2003925204927_GvS1.jpg

And a few turns later I take out Tonawanda:

http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/gothmog/2003925204954_GvS2.jpg

I am thinking to take out St. Regis too, but then I see a Mounted Warrior and think better of it. I make peace at favorable terms:

http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/gothmog/2003925205025_GvS3.jpg

I check with the Germans and they now have Polytheism, I also realize for the first time that they never met the Iroquois. I am getting close to MM and they will certainly meet soon after that tech, I am also starting to get worried that Sky will show up anytime. In addition, the majority of my archers are up north and it will take them almost 20 turns to reach Germany anyway. So I make peace with Germany too:

http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/gothmog/2003925205057_GvS4.jpg

And then trade Poly to the Iroquois:

http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/gothmog/2003925205126_GvS5.jpg

Iíve now settled the Ivory and have another city about to be founded NE of New York grabbing some Iron. My troops are massing in Boston for the walk south and I am building a few horses to accompany them. Other than that I am still in expansion mode.

WildFire
25-09-2003, 22:33
Nice!

Gothmog
13-10-2003, 18:34
So my max research efforts paid off in that I have MM now and I immediately rushed a galley from Philly. I was a bit worried about having to travel through Iroquois territory to explore but it turned out to be no big deal, I find an island quickly.

http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/gothmog/20031013172651_GvS1.jpg

At the beginning of my next turn I am greeted by this:

http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/gothmog/20031013172718_GvS2.jpg

and this:

http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/gothmog/20031013172744_GvS3.jpg

So I guess China sold contact w/me to the Greeks, thanks Mao! I wonder if Sky even noticed that the Chinese had contact w/me, not that it would have done him any good. A quick check of Greek and Chinese assets shows me that the Geek is ahead and has Lit up on the Chinese, not to mention a bunch of cash. Iíve already decided to trade contact because MM is already out there. I wonder where Skyís galley is now? My new map shows me that geography has most likely helped me get contact before Sky, not to mention the assist by Mao. So I make this trade:

http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/gothmog/20031013172918_GvS4.jpg

I wanted contact w/France to see where he is in techs.

http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/gothmog/20031013172952_GvS5.jpg
Heh, nice hat Sky. He is a bit behind but does have MM already. Iím going to make sure everyone has all the techs he has to help keep him behind. Now I make this trade with China:

http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/gothmog/20031013173036_GvS6.jpg

Now I distribute the techís Sky knows to the Iroquois and Germany, getting what I can for them.

http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/gothmog/20031013173118_GvS7.jpg

http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/gothmog/20031013173133_GvS8.jpg

Here is my current mini map:

http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/gothmog/20031013173218_GvS9.jpg

Iím still building settlers at max rate. I have 11 archers along with a few Spear and a couple Horses on German borders. I have 4 turns or so until I can declare honorably on them. I donít know how much resistance to expect from them but I think I can get more value from my remaining archers by attacking than keeping and upgrading [rolleyes]. Sky looks to have a good position on one end of his continent with some very nice land and the weak Chinese between him and the Greeks. My current plan is to put the hurt on Germany and eventually take their land and have my FP down there. I am going to need a break to build some infrastructure and at some point I need to start thinking about what wonders Iíll need for my GA.

Gothmog
24-11-2003, 23:44
I declared on Germany and on the second turn of war took Nuremburg from them, the archer in the picture just left or I couldn't have grabbed it this turn.
http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/gothmog/20031124223830_GvS1.jpg
I'm going to move my troops across the river before attacking Berlin, you can see that I have already captured 4 workers. I have also killed a few random troops on offence and defense.
I take Berlin on my first try, there were only three shields there all regular.
http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/gothmog/20031124224056_GvS2.jpg
ATM I am just healing up, I still have enough troops to do more damage to Germany, also my Iron is now hooked up and I have a bunch of sword headed down for the kill.
http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/gothmog/20031124224329_GvS3.jpg
I have a couple more in the east moving south.

Gothmog
05-01-2004, 18:24
I continued thumping on Germany, and decided they were weak enough to send down a sword force and make them a vassle of the mighty american empire. They ended up sending most of their forces north and met my swords to their dismay. A few sneaky ones did escape notice by traveling along the eastern border and actually took out a newly founded city of mine defended by one spear.

Meanwhile, France and Greece were eating up China.

Somehow Sky caught up in techs, he must have extorted from China and had a min run come in (or something). The bartering must have been good too. I had been doing a max run on Republic to try and head off a min run by him on that tech, but to no avail.

I noticed that China was down to one city and that Republic, Monarchy, and Construction had all been traded around. So I bought the rest of Republic from China for peace and some gpt. Then I made peace with Germany for Construction and a couple cities. This left them with two (inc. their capital). I didn't get a leader for my FP yet but I have a lot of elites and they are moving into position for 20 turns hence. I am going to start a hand built FP just in case.

I did a couple pop rushes and revolted (Sky is in anarchy already). I pulled a nice 5 turns.

I haven't decided if I should take it to the Iroquois next, or prepare a navy and wait until Sky attacks Greece. Then attack him in the South. I currently have my galley scouting out southern routs between the continents. If I conquer the Iroquois then any wonder I build will kick off my GA (they have the pyramids and colossus already). So I'll play it by ear.

anarres
05-01-2004, 19:53
Can we have a minimap please Gothmog? :)

Gothmog
06-01-2004, 17:31
Here are some screen shots, the one of my core got corrupted somehow but it's fully developed.

http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/gothmog/20041616295_1.jpg

http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/gothmog/200416162945_2.JPG

http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/gothmog/200416163011_3.jpg

Gothmog
27-01-2004, 16:11
I've got all my elite troops outside of Frankfurt and Heidleburg (germany also has a city on the peninsula to the south west). I am going to do a bit of leader fishing hoping to rush my FP in former German lands. Also Germany has Engineering and Monotheism (as does all the other AI's), I figure I'll leave him his one little city and get those techs via pointy stick. I still have 10 turns of peace with him but I am leaning towards just attacking him anyway. It will be just me and Sky on our own continents before too long anyway. The Iroquois are the number 1 civ atm though. Sky has taken over China and his superior lands are providing him with a nice boost. I've got lots of Jungle to clear still.

The only screenshot I have is my civ stats just after I entered Republic

http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/gothmog/2004127151020_SvGM.jpg

Gothmog
06-02-2004, 16:35
Well, I opened up the save and what did I see?
http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/gothmog/20042615245_Situation.jpg
Those sneaky Iroquoi! What could they be upto? I thought I saw them moving that way when I saved the last turn but I wasn't sure. Most of my army is in the south waiting for ten more turns to attack Germany, the borders of both his cities just expanded (libraries?) and I had to reposition my troops.
http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/gothmog/200426152627_South.jpg
I decided to take full advantage of the Iroquoi in this trade.
http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/gothmog/200426152813_Offer.jpg
If they don't declare war on me, I will have to do so on them. I upgraded all local warriors to swords and moved some spears north and west as you can see in the image above. I am thinking I will start prosecuting war on the Germans next turn too. Either declaring, or just moving next to their cities and refusing to move then declaring the following turn. I got the techs I was going to extort from them from the Iroquois. I'll want to own my whole continent anyway, and I am sure Sky feels the same way. So who cares about rep? I was really just holding off out of reflex, and waiting for the Germans to get some more troops that I can fish for leaders.

As soon as I click 'next turn' this totally predictable action occurs.
http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/gothmog/200426153233_war.jpg
One mounted warrior attacks New York and loses to one of my swords there. I didn't want to fight the Iroquois until I at least had pikes, but I'll just play a defensive war for a while and make them pay for peace. Their initial force is not much, no SOD of mounted warriors that could really hurt me. Two more MW's moved towards me in the IT, and one was covering a settler. That must be the rational for war, a settling a resource in my territory. Once I get Knights I'll wipe them out.

anarres
21-03-2004, 23:17
How is this game going? Are you going to start any C3C ones? they are much more fun IMO.

Gothmog
22-03-2004, 21:09
Game hasn't moved much. I'm very busy atm, I am moving to my new house in two weeks. So I haven't been on top of Sky to get the turns flowing, and now I only check my e-mail for his turns the day after I send and then every few days after that.

I'm still at war with the Iroquois and they have put some pressure on me. I've been leader fishing on the Germans (maybe 10 elite victories in the last 4 turns alone) but haven't gotten lucky yet.

Once I'm settled in my new place I may start another game or two. I haven't even been in a SG lately. Actually I've only played C3C twice, one was the SG 'surviving SID' and the other a solo Diety game that was a lot of fun (I won as the Indians), and quite dicey. The Inca went runaway on me and had me on the run until I snagged the ToE and used the tech to get the rest of the world in MA's against them. I also did a number on them with a couple pillaging infantry armies.

Gothmog
24-03-2004, 15:20
I played a few more turns in the last couple days, hopefully we've got a rhythm back.

I did some more leader fishing in Germany about 6 more elite wins, no leader. That was all of their troops, feh. They only have their capital now on the little peninsula off the south west part of my continent. They did get Feudalism somehow so I took that for peace. I've been moving troops north for a while now and they are starting to reach the Iroquois border. This has allowed me to get that area back under control, it was touch and go for a couple turns but the tide is turning. I am going to stay at war with them to continue leader fishing, I would really like a quick FP.

I am researching chivalry now and will have it in ten turns or so, at that point I will make some headway against the Iroquois.

anarres
24-03-2004, 15:54
I guess Germany got a free MA tech? In my Yndy game I almost *died* when after 70 or so Elite victories I still hadn't got a leader...

Gothmog
24-03-2004, 18:03
Nah, as I mentioned on Jan 27, Germany had Monotheism and Engineering already - I was going to get those from Biz but the Iroquois gave them to me for a song instead :D

All the other AI's already had Mono and Eng too, and Sky still lacks Feud - so either they researched it or were given it at a cut rate by another AI (perhaps using a couple workers in trade?, I destroyed their capital at Frankfurt last turn and only got one worker). Anyway I'm glad they had it, I got it for free.

I am a little frusturated at my sucky lands. The parts of my continent that aren't long and thin have lots of tundra, not to mention the huge jungle to my south and redundancy in the luxuries - there are quite a few but only 4 different ones, I'll hook up my last (furs near Frankfurt) soon.

Still, I'm quickly becoming the top dog (Iroquois being my main rival atm). My current plan is to run over them with Knights right away (rollin' rollin' rollin').:D