View Full Version : Gothmog vs anarres *** SPOILER ***

26-07-2003, 15:56
9 - Pop a deserted hut.

17 - Meet Russia, give Masonry and 5 gold for Ceremonial Burial

19 - Meet the Zulu, give Masonry and Bronze Working and 2 gold.

22 - Somehow I've met the Aztecs, I sell them Masonry for 35 gold.

24 - I build my first settler. Since my land is small and blocked off from the AI by mountains I will pack the cities in close in an RCP format.

Here is the dotmap, I can choose either the red or light green ring for my first set of cities, and the blue, orange or dark green for te outer ring. I am tempted to go for red and dark green to maximise spread, what to you lot think?

Pic not shown because it's too wide. Click here. (http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/anarres/2003726145643_g024.dotmap2.jpg)

26-07-2003, 19:45
I would go for Red and dark green !
No doubt in my mind...

26-07-2003, 20:11
Me: light green and blue

26-07-2003, 20:13
Blue has no costal cities so I am going for dark green.

After some thought I decide to go for red inner ring since there are more river cities than light green.

26-07-2003, 21:24
Dark green...and red : very good choice [thumbsup]

01-08-2003, 00:48
quick pic:


01-08-2003, 00:51
I've had a few RCP practice games and theres no doubt, it is very strong.

01-08-2003, 01:49
yeah, you certianly lose a lot in placement but I guess the second ring corruption must be well worth it...

01-08-2003, 14:31
quote:Originally posted by anarres

Blue has no costal cities

doesnt it have at least two?

edit: on closer examination: no [blush2]

01-08-2003, 14:52
Umm, I checked and it does have 2 pv! [crazyeye]

Dark green it is anyway, since that will maximise available tiles...

09-08-2003, 01:22
25 - Found Shanghai.

26 - Some Barbs approach my second city, ther eis no way to defend it in time.

I buy Iron Working from the Aztecs for 92 gold and 5 gpt, and sell it to the Zulu for The Wheel and 17 gold. I only have 27 gold in the bank now, so they can't take too much. I also have nearby horses and iron, so that's a relief...

38 - Buy Alphabet for 6gpt and 28 gold, since a stack of Jag Warriors and Archers is approaching. From the Russians buy Mystcysm for Alphabet and 28 golds.

48 - The Zulu have Writing and contact with the Indians and French. Eithe rone would cost 77 gold and 9 gpt. [sad]

49 - Russia demand 22 gold, I give it.

56 - Pay the Aztecs 118 gold for contact with the Indians.

Give India The Wheel and 4 gold for contact with the French.

Now give India Iron Working and 6 gold for Writing.

Sell Russia Writing with 27 gold for Maths.

Sell France Maths for HBR and 43 gold.

Sell Russia contact with the Indians for 49 gold.

All in all a nice trading session. [coool]

57 - Shit, I forgot to set research last turn. :( Set to Currency at max research.

61 - My warrior finds Gothmog in the north!



09-08-2003, 10:31
Minimap please !

ps : thx for the update btw... ;)

17-08-2003, 17:33
62 - Aztecs demand 25 gold, I refuse and they declare war. I'm not sure where they are, but they have to come over 15 mountian tiles at the end of thier journey.

63 - Kill a lone Elite Archer from the Aztecs and get my horse promoted to Elite. I can also see another one to the east...

Give Germany 10 gold and Maths for a worker.

70 - I just noticed I am also at war with the Germans and Zulu. [???] Oh well, none of them are anywhere near me and I am well defended now.

73 - The Aztecs have thrown an Archer at me and promoted a spear of mine to elite, then I took out an injured Jag and got my second elite horse! :D

1 turn from Currency and France gets it first. :(

I buy it from them for WM and 21 gold.

Give Currency and WM to the Russians for Map Making and Polytheism.

Give Currency to the Indians for Philosophy and 239 gold.

Switch science to Code of Laws @ 100%.

81 - Research Code of Laws.

Sell Code of Laws (with 5 gold) to Russia for Construction.
Sell Code of Laws to France for Literature and 65 gold.

Switch research to Republic @ 100%.

17-08-2003, 18:09
Minimap please !

17-08-2003, 19:47
Just for Sky :D


30-08-2003, 21:37
96 - After only 10 Elite battles I get a leader for mthe Aztec Archers. After trudging across the mountins they pour on to my plains to be slaughtered by my Horses... [mwaha]

Since I have a leader I decide to play it safe and not get Sun Tzu's, but instead use it for my FP.

I make peace with the Aztecs getting 2 workers and 40 gold, everything will now switch focus to taking the Russians out the game and building my FP in the middle of their empire.

98 - Buy a worker from Germany for 122 gold. Finally connect my Iron, I get republic in 3 turns, then I will wait a couple of turns before upgrading my troops and hitting anarchy.

101 - Research Republic. I make peace with the Zulu for 3 gpt. Take Kiev from the French, I have plenty of units arriving to carry on the advance in to foreign land.

106 - My units are moving west in numbers now. I am going to hold off from Republic until I have settled a few new cities and connected a couple more lux's. I still only have 1, and it's just not enough.

Look at the Zulu leader! Shame I just made a peace treaty...


Here is a dotmap of my new empire, the white dot is my FP:


02-09-2003, 15:22
Well, the new findings means that the red FP ring (pic above) is invalid.

In fact, anything 7 or more tiles away will suffer 95% corruption as the ring around my capital at distance 6 is maxed out - there are about 12 cities in it, and another 6 closer than that.

I guess my FP core will be tiny then - I am very pissed off about this. :(

Maybe I can disband enough Palace core cities to make cities > distance 6 viable around my FP, but I doubt it. [cry]

Lt. Killer M
02-09-2003, 15:48
actually, what happenes if they are the exact SAME distance? then, you'd get a strong 7 core FP ring - not bad!

quite whining, before RCP you wouldn't have either ;)

20-09-2003, 20:08
108 - Gothmog tells me France and the Aztecs signed an MA aginst me. I really want to make peace with the French and Indians, but I have 6 turns left of my MA's against them with Russia.

110 - Everyone but Gothmog and Russia suddenly have Republic, in the same turn! [mad]

All I can get is Monarchy from Russia, and I have to pay 12 gold extra for that. [sad]

112 - At last I build my FP city and rush the FP with my stored leader. I have 5 or 6 cities founded there already, and a few more on the way. My MA's with Russia have 2 turns left, then I can take the 4 or 5 remaining Russian cities.

I finally decide to go to Republic. Now I have rushed my FP and have several more useful cities I will be able to support my large army.

113 - Weird, my MA's with Russsia end a turn early. I guess Russia made peace with 1 turn to go...

I make peace with India and France, getting 40 gold from each.

Shit! I just noticed my only Iron has depleted! [cry]

114 - Declare war on Russia and take a Russian city and an Aztec one. The Aztec city gives me my second lux and a leader! Great, this can rush Sun Tzu's. :D

I also found another 2 cotoes in my FP core. 4 turns left of anarchy.

116 - Complete Sun Tzu's. Take a Russian city and raze another. They are defending with spears, with no iron for pikes.

118 - heh, I am Republic! :D

Make peace with the Aztecs gaining a city with iron nearby, 45 gold and 8gpt.

I capture a Russian city with Furs, my 3rd lux. [dance]

Russia only has 1 city now so I make peace and get Engineering, an updated WM and some cash.

Next I establish an Embassy with the Zulu, India and the Aztecs for about 165 gold.

The Aztecs give me 6gpt for an RoP, India gives 35 gold.

20-09-2003, 22:20
Did you manage to get some Iron somewhere ? How ?
A screenie of your newly acquired land would be nice :D

20-09-2003, 22:45
Looking good as usual anarres! ;)

21-09-2003, 00:14
Here are the pics:


Here is the western empire, with my FP in New Beijing:


And the eastern empire:


11-10-2003, 03:18
131 - Get Mono and 29 gold from the Aztecs in return for Furs and Horses. I was 4 turns from it last turn.

Buy Invention from India for Mono, 33 gold and 4 gpt.

Give 2 more lux's to the Aztecs for 6 gpt and 3 gold. They are the only civ I can safely trade with since I am soon to declare on the Zulu.

Set science to Chivalry, I get it in 6 turns.

137 - Get Chivalry. The Zulu have withdrawn from my borders now so I can't get him to declare. I have to wait a few more turns...

140 - At last the Zulu wander in to my land. I get Theocracy for gpt and demand he leaves, he declares war. 4 cities fall to my Riders this turn, triggering my GA. [coool]

Pay India 14 gpt for an MA against the Zulu. The Aztecs only cost 4 gpt for theirs.


141 - Gothmog has got an MA with France against me.

Sell Chivalry to India for Gunpowder, 90 gold and 33 gpt. They are at war with Persia at the moment, so maybe Gothmog will have to wait a little longer.

To be on the safe side I pay the Aztecs 3 gpt for an MA agianst Gothmog. Now I have 6 turns minimum before he can get them in an MA against me.

Take a Zulu city and raise another.

142 - Raze a size 12 Zulu core city. They now have no horses or iron. [mwaha]

144 - hehe, I raze Zimbabwe, and capture Umtata with the Great Library.

Since I am getting close to France I decide to pay India for an MA against them, which I get for free when I also get an MA aginst Persia.

145 - Take another 2 Zulu cities. They are almost gone in production and units now, I need to decide what to do next...

146 - Take a Zulu city and get a leader! [dance]

Sell my only Saltpeter to the Indians so I can build Pikes. They pay well too. I have 2 more to connect when I want to upgrade.

I'm not sure what to do with my leader - I think JS Backs...


25-10-2003, 01:33
147 - Take another 2 Zulu cities securing me 3 dyes - my 4th lux! :D

149 - Research Astronomy. A city flips to the Zulu, but this is good - it was being starved, and I have Riders just outside.

I take back the Zulu city and rush Copernicus' Observatory in my FP city (New Beijing).

After killing some French units in the open I have about 15 Elite Riders.

150 - Pay India 10 gpt for an MA against the French and Gothmog. I now have an MA with India against everyone apart from the Aztecs.

I get India furious and demand they leave - they declare war! I take an Indian city and raze another on the edge of their empire.


30-10-2003, 22:57
whoops - moved [crazyeye]

30-10-2003, 23:04
Something is very wrong with this last post [:o]

14-11-2003, 22:46
152 - Build Heroic Epic! :D

As if on queue, after another 6 or 7 Elite wins I get a Leader. [dance] I have to say it's about time too - I've had loads of Elite wins in the last few turns, I have about 20 Elite Riders. I make my second army but leave it empty for Cavalry.

153 - Declare war on the Aztecs and take their 2 biggest cities. They have just 3 cities left, and only 1 of them with any production.

hehe, I'm now at war with everyone!

Make peace with the Zulu - they are a nice border between me and Gothmog.

154 - Research Physics.

Make peace with India and take one of their cities isolated in one of my corrupt areas.

155 - Get yet another leader! China is my favourite civ for leader farming, and the patheticly weak AI are providing perfect targets. A move 3 UU against spears and pikes, with fast promotions and free barracks in every city (Sun Tzu), and Heroic Epic are the ideal conditions. Out of my 30 Riders about 25 are Elite and I expect several more leaders in the next 30 or 40 turns... [coool]

I use my leader for a third army and set my capital to Military Acadamy. In 3 turns I get Theory of Gravity and I will swith my Palace prebuild to Newtons.

156 - Auto-raze the last 2 Aztec cities. This is annoying - at least one of the cities had culture there, but less than 10. I thought any culture meant no auto-raze, but I guess they changed it again in 1.27...


157 - Research Theory of Gravity and build Newtons.

Take the Zulu capital and then auto-raze their last city.

159 - I spy a Persian Immortal keeping guard on me. I intend to use the patch of jungle as defense - I will build walled villages in the jungle to slow Gothmog's units if he tries to take me.


160 - My GA has just ended. :(

162 - Research Magnetism.

Take Dijon and get a leader. :D


163 - Take Rheims. Make peace with the French for Metallurgy and Economics and immediately re-declare.

164 - Rush JS Bach's in one of my FP cities.

I take Grenoble with ease, I will keep it so I can get to Avignon. The French are suprisingly not very strong - I guess they have lost lots against India. :D

India and France have pre-builds for JS Bachs - I gift India Economics so they can switch to Smith's and maybe beat Gothmog.

With all my Elite Riders I hope for another Leader to take Smith's myself, but maybe I will keep my next for ToE/Hoover.

165 - I left Genoble empty to starve and the French take it back. Now I move in my settler next to it, re-take Grenoble and raze it, and found my new city in reach of Paris and Avignon.

166 - Take Avignon

168 - Take Paris and keep it - it has the Pyramids and Leonardo's.

Gothmog now has Physics and Metallurgy so I give both to the Indians for an Alliance against France. Now Gothmog can't trade them with India if they research ToG or Magnetism. [groucho]

15-11-2003, 01:10
Excellent game !
I dont see how he could win this now...

15-11-2003, 01:19
I am 3 turns from steam IIRC.

The only way Gothmog can win is if he hits me before then. After that I will have rails and instant defence. The swamps are looking good now - lots of cities with walls. In the water I have a line of ships near him to detect a sea invasion.

I have to admit that this game is going much better than I ever hoped. Leaders are pouring out everywhere and the AI's are good punching bags, and also exclusivly mine.

04-12-2003, 23:19
171 - Research Steam Power! [coool]

I take a French city and start my railroad net. Next turn I will have a complete line through both city cores and to the French. :D

172 - Complete the Pentagon.

173 - I take another French city, then notice Gothmogs forces approaching!


The near stack of Gothmogs is 3 Elite Immortals and a Musket, and the far stack is 13 Cavalry and 1 Immortal.

I rail up to Amatikulu and deposit my 10 available Riders there, along with 12 Muskets, 9 Med Inf and a longbow. To get the units there I have to use over 50 workers. I have another 4 Riders and a Rider army, but they won't be healed next turn.

Next turn I get another 6 Riders and 9 Muskets. When the French will talk next I will get Cavalry - I hope it's next turn! I also turn science down to 0% so I will have another 800 gold for rushing.

I think this is just a 'tester' from Gothmog, his forces are stronger than mine, so he must have a significant number of Cavs. I am hoping my jungle defense will hold him long enough for me to get defenses if he tries to push over land.

I put 9 Muskets and 6 Med Inf on the mountain with enough workers to road it (already in pic) - it is also over a river so my defense will be 9 if he attacks, I will reinforce it next turn. Now I remove the Rider on the road pillaging a tile so the Cav can't reach my workers.

Overall I think Gothmog has been suprised by my tech rate. I benifited hugely from a tight RCP in by my Palace (had no choice considering my start), and then from getting an FP set up enough turns before my GA to take full advantage. The whole time I don't think I've gone over 30 horse based units - I've kept it light and built up my infrastructure. Now I have rails and over 150 workers I will be railed in all my core cites very soon. Unless 50 Cav land by my cores next turn I can't see Gothmog winning this anymore. :D

17-01-2004, 15:17
175 - France will talk! I make peace and get Mil Trad off them. All their mainland cities are gone, they have just 4 cities on a small island left.


I upgrade my 25 Cavalry and get and RoP with India. Now I rail in to their territory so I can blitz them easier.

176 - Take 9 Indian cities, including most their core. [coool]

177 - Take Dheli and Karachi.

178 - Research Electricity. Gothmog just aquired his last Middle Age tech and managed to get Steam Power as his free IA tech. [cry]

I have to get to Replacable Parts before Gothmog. I also want ToE and Hoover, but I will go for Rep Parts first as Gothmog's army is stronger than mine and I fear an invasion soon.

I take another 2 core Indian cities, Ghandi has just 2 'fringe' cities now.

180 - Finally I finish the Indians.

183 - Shit! Gothmog has Electricity too! Now there are only 3 civs left I I guess the price plummeted. I am 1 turn from Replacable Parts and soon will safe from invasion. The big problem is going to be getting ToE and Hoover. I have a pre-build that can get ToE as soon as I research it, but getting Hoover would probably be lost then (since I would have to pre-build again from scratch). I guess the biggest problem is if Gothmog decides to go for Medicine now - tech calc says I can just get it in 4 turns...

184 - Research Replaceable Parts. I build a city as close as I can to Gothmog. He can attack it from the mountains, but I have Infantry now.

I get Medicine in 4 turns, if I get ToE I'm not sure which techs to choose. I am about to throw a few elite cavs at the French island in a desperate attempt for leaders for Hoover.


18-01-2004, 00:27
Exciting shit...

01-02-2004, 22:10
188: Research Medicine, Gothmog already has it (he must have got it last turn). If Gothmog can research Sci Methods in 4 turns he will get ToE, but if he takes 5 I will snatch it. I don't like my chances, so I have to decide what next. I think I will go for Hoover and get it with my pre-build, Gothmog won't be able to get it.

Take the last French city, there was no leader. :(

189: I bombard a Musket and a Med Inf near our border with my 4 arty:

2hp from Musket
1hp from Med Inf
1hp from Musket

Now my vet galleon attacks a regular caravel and takes off 1hp. My caravel then attacks and dies, Gothmogs caravel promotes to vet. [rolleyes]

I decide not to send in a third ship. I really should have used the arty against the ship. :(


190: Gothmog has replaced the injured units on the mountain with a fresh vet Musket. I use 2 arty to bomb it to 1hp. Next I use 1 arty to remove the road coming south out of Charsadda. Finally I move a cav NE from Paoting 2 and can see the units on the mountain N of the lone Musket. With 3 arty I take 2hp from one Musket and 1hp from 2 more.

All of this will be inflicting WW points, and if he lets me keep it up he will soon be suffering WW.


01-02-2004, 22:14
If I get ToE I need to decide which techs to go for. ATM there are no pre-build items apart from the palace, so I may not get Hoover if I choose Atomic Theory and Electronics. I am almost certainly not to get hoover if Gothmog has a pre-build going for ToE.

Maybe I will go Industrialisaion/Corporation, but is that just a waste of potential science beakers?

03-02-2004, 13:22

I loaded up the turn last night, and I am 1 turn from Medicine and Gothmog hasn't built ToE yet! This means as player 1 I am guarenteed to get ToE next turn with my pre-build, and Gothmog can't stop me!

I need some advice - which techs should I choose??

I have only 1 pre-build and no leader, so I don't have any Hoover guarentees. In fact, if Gothmog has a pre-build for ToE it is very likely he will want to go for Hoover instead (although he is also lacking Replacable Parts and he needs that too for infantry).

I need to choose between Atomic Theory/Electronics or Industrialisation/Corporation. Atomic Theory/Electronics are (by far) the most beakers I can get out of my free techs, but the top-level branches have more 'goodies' on them - they give factories and stock exchanges. [hmm]

03-02-2004, 13:46
Excellent news on getting the ToE anarres [goodjob], but as to what techs you want to grab, if you don't have any prebuilds for Hoover I would recommend against going for Atomic Theory --> Electronics. You won't be able to build the Hoover Dam yourself for a long time (unless you get a leader vs Gothmog), and if you grab these techs from the ToE their research cost for Gothmog will drop immensely, Atomic theory for example from a staggering 10666 to a doable 7109 beakers ,let alone the risk of Gothmog stealing them cheaply from you if he has the Intelligence Agency.

Since you seem convinced that Gothmog has a prebuild going on, he will probably take the Electronics branch of the tree himself, or waste his shields (or build Universal Suffrage maybe, against your WW-bombardments? ;)). Any info on whether Gothmog already has industrialization? Hoover isn't any good with no factories around of course...

I must say I'm very curious as to what you're long-term victory plan is. From the earlier minimaps it seems you now should have control of a very large amount of territory... or are you aiming for technological superiority and thus a Space Race win? :)

03-02-2004, 13:47
I guess it depends on whether you think you will need Hydroelectic Plants or not... If the game
will take much longer, say an extra 100 turns, Hydro + Factories will pay off. If you are
building up a load of troops and are focusing on having top production right now, maybe Industrialization is a better choice.

03-02-2004, 14:36
I can guarentee Gothmog has either a Leader, a pre-build or both. He got Steam for free, and went Electricity -> Medicine, which implies a ToE grab. He hasn't had time to research anything else in this era, which also means I am Replacable Parts ahead of him.

I am leaning more and more towards Industrialisation/Corporation for the factories and the stock exchanges. Maybe with a facotry I can even steal Hoover from Gothmog if he goes for it! [groucho]

In terms of strategy, I don't really have one. Gothmog and me both have RR's everywhere by now so an invasion before tanks would be painful and probably fatalistic (although atm Gothmog doesn't have any Inf). I won't completely rule out a sail around the coast with a few boats, but I think establishing the mountain border and pushing there with arty is the best plan until tanks.

21-03-2004, 23:15
Here is an update to some turns played a couple of weeks ago:

191 - 6 Arty shell the mountain stack. 1 miss, 4x1hp and 1x2hp from Muskets. Ironclad finds 3hp Caravel near Harat and destroys it, going from 4hp to 2hp. It then retreats out of sight to the SW.

192 - I research Scientific Method and build ToE, choosing Industriaisation and Corporation as my free techs.

9 Arty bomb a stack of 5 vet Muskets near Merv:
2 x 1hp
5 x 2hp
2 miss

Apparently Gothmog lost a pre-build for ToE because he was due to complete the same turn for me. This was the last staw for Gothmog and he has resigned!

It was a fun game for me in the beginning because I faced what I considered to be a bad start, and it really showed the power of two fully seperated cores in PTW. Now in C3C we can't do this anymore, and I have to think it is for the better since my empire was hugely overpowered in the end.

21-03-2004, 23:24
Congrats : you played this game absolutely brilliantly on a very unfavourable map for you !

As said in the chat this game was "a true ode to RCP and PTW FP" :D
Long live C3C !