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Aggie
12-07-2003, 09:09
We have an open thread at CFC, but I assume that this is more and more getting the place post the 'open issues'. Jack is Russia and I am France.

We are now at Turn 114. Until now me and Jack managed to expand quite nicely. I already had a war with the Zulu from which I got 3 cities and 4 techs.

This is the world now:
http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/aggie/20037128826_AgJM2 world at 114.jpg
9.31*KB

This is the powergraph:
http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/aggie/20037128937_AgJMpower 116.jpg
39.38*KB

Aggie
12-07-2003, 09:16
Turn 116:

This is the reason why I created the open thread:
http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/aggie/200371281219_AgJMsmolensksmall.jpg
7.08*KB

I sent Jack the following mail:

"Hi Jakob!

Which techs do you have over me? I'd like to have something for me sparing Smolensk. I'm thinking about a payment of 1000 gold or two nice MA-techs.

I've re-read our game rules (1st game, I assume those are still valid). If I read it correctly I will not break any of them when I attack Smolensk and get other civs to join me with MA's. Please tell me when you see it differently. I don't want to break any agreements.

'- ROP rape not allowed
- We have to stick to 20 turn deals. Or longer if the humans make a longer one.
- No phoney wars and phoney MA's and MPP's. So it's not allowed to declare to a civ at the other side of the world, get MA's or MPP's with the rest and stay out of the action.
- Trade boycot not allowed
- No declaration of war vs another civ until the middle ages.'

Sorry, nothing personal :("

jack merchant
12-07-2003, 14:43
I'm afraid I have to concur with your interpretation of the agreements, so you're at full liberty to attack & sign MA's against me.
The mighty Russian Empire is at the moment still considering a suitable response to this piece of blackmail ;)

jack merchant
12-07-2003, 14:58
I have paid Aggie 800 gold to not attack; furthermore, we have agreed to not to go to war against each other before the industrial age.

Aggie
29-07-2003, 11:18
And again here is an argeement which can be explained in a couple of ways:

Do we have peace until:
- One of the AI's gets to the industrial age
- One of us gets to the industrial age (seems loigical)
- Both of us get to the industrial age

I assume that we are able to declare war when one of us enters the IA.

Jack, do you recall whether we specified this point?
It wouldn't be good to see us having an argument about it, although probably I will be busy with other things at that time ;)

jack merchant
29-07-2003, 12:45
We didn't specify it, but your interpretation sounds fine (although it probably means trouble for me ;)). I won't be online until 10pm or so this evening as I have to work.

Aggie
29-07-2003, 12:53
OK, good to see that we agree. I was asking, because you never know what happens and one of us could get an opportunity because of a certain situation in the game. Be aware that when an AI goes to war vs one of us while we have railroads, that the concept of 'phoney war' doesn't excist anymore :D

anarres
29-07-2003, 12:56
I have a question: Do you have to say when you enter the industrial age? If not then it could be fun. [satan]

jack merchant
29-07-2003, 14:07
As far as I'm concerned, you don't have to :). I better do something about those Persians fast !

Aggie
29-07-2003, 14:38
@anarres: we are both able to see it in the diplo screen: the leaderhead changes!!

Skyfish
29-07-2003, 14:54
Except one of you, if he is the first to get there, could time his attack right the turn he goes into IA without his opponent having any idea about it [evil]
:D

Aggie
29-07-2003, 15:11
[scared] Oh no, Sky is right [scared2]

All in due time though. At this moment that discussion is still academic.

jack merchant
02-08-2003, 15:50
Aggie unwisely left a warrior wandering next to one of my cities just as I was about to reach the industrial age; Immediately traded up to the AI and set up all AI's except England against Aggie. Not signing up the English was a mistake, but at least I can get my GA against them. I also allied with the Persians agaisnt the English.

Aggie and I agreed to respect the peace treaties we sign - if either of us signs peace with an AI, we are to respect the peace treaty for 20 turns and only sign a new one after that for a genuine new war.

jack merchant
04-08-2003, 19:38
World War 1 has broken out in earnest on our continent ! Aggie made peace with the Zulu and the Iroquis, but both signed MPPs with the Chinese and they are now back at war. However, the Iroquis also signed a military alliance against me with the English. Having forgotten about this, I attacked the Iro's and am now at war with the Chinese too.

To sum up, I'm at war with the English, the French, the Iroquis and the Chinese and allied with the Persians against the English.
Aggie is at war with the Zulu, the Chinese, the Persians and (I think) the Iroquis and allied with the English against me.

jack merchant
05-08-2003, 14:06
Things got rather interesting for me when the Iroquis bribed the Persians (who were my full military allies and had just renewed a lux deal) to go to war against me. I lost 2 cities and suddenly faced war on all my borders. Fortunately, I managed to buy off the Iroquis and English and went on the counteroffensive against Persia, retaking the 2 lost towns and caputing a Pesian one. Peace was then signed with the Persians and with Aggie -I'm only at war with the Chinese now, but that is mostly phony so far.
Map when I get a turn tonight.

Aggie
05-08-2003, 14:35
.....

http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/aggie/200385133453_AJmap195.jpg
8.39KB

I made a stupid mistake with that warrior that started all of this. I'm surely not better of now than I was then [cry]

jack merchant
06-08-2003, 17:15
Trading on my talent for antagonizing people, I'm now at war with the Iroquis and the English again. The English also kindly bought in the Zulu against me, while the Chinese are still refusing to be reasonable about any peace deals. I don't intend to pay them for it !

Aggie
06-08-2003, 17:17
That'll keep you busy! How much land are you going to grab from the English? ;)

jack merchant
09-08-2003, 17:18
Aggie and I agreed on peace until the modern Age.

In other news, the proud Russian Empire is at war again, this time with the Persians. Yet another war with the English appears to be imminent as English forces just crossed the border in force.

Aggie
09-08-2003, 17:23
Me, I'm peaceful. I'm shaking my head in disbelief when I see all those wars going on :(

Aggie
11-08-2003, 09:34
Turn 227:

Jack now also has peace with the world, except with the Iroquois. We followed different roads in the last 20 turns. Jack made progress through fighting and conquering a few cities. I on the other hand was able to trade a lot.

Gotta love the commercial trait. You wouldn't believe what you can do with all that money, provided that you have a good military ofcourse [groucho]

Skyfish
11-08-2003, 10:13
At least in this game you guys are not walking all over the AIs, that makes a bit more interesting...
Peace until Modern Age ? Where do you guys get the idea for such ludicrous deals anyway ?
[rolleyes]

jack merchant
11-08-2003, 15:04
Notwalking all over the AI ? You ain't seen nothing yet Sky !

On the topic of the commercial trait: sure, Aggie likely makes far more money than me. But that, I think, has as much to do to do with the fact that he has more and better-placed cities as with the commercial trait. I've only been involved in full-scale wars since recently - Aggie very skilfully expanded his territory earlier on in the war against the Zulu thus increasing his economic base.
If I'd expanded better and my empire would have been capable of self-researching, we might have a better comparison of commercial vs scientific :)

Skyfish
11-08-2003, 15:14
Well they are still alive midway through the IA so that's all I need to see... they also have comparable territories to you and Aggie and can take cities off you in wars. They are not doing that bad I would say...

Aggie
11-08-2003, 15:33
The reason why the Zulu and Chinese are still alive lies in the fact that I focussed on killing Jack!! Unfortunatelly it didn't work out quite as planned [cry]. After that I decided to retreat and recover.

jack merchant
11-08-2003, 21:56
And build ToE, you bastard !!!!!!! [aargh] [cry][saiyan][wallbash]

;)

The AIs are officially dead - they just don't know it yet ! Most or all of them have spent time or are still in communism or monarchy, have had their lands pillaged and their cities whipped. Also, no AI currently has decent gpt on offer (I had hoped for more after stealing Sci Meth and selling it on to the AIs) so their ressearch isn't all that good either anymore.

Aggie
11-08-2003, 21:58
Oh yeah, right... I built ToE [coool]

jack merchant
11-08-2003, 23:01
Aggie's carefully planned construction of ToE left me three techs behind - Sci Meth, AT and Electronics. I had to steal all three.....

First up, Sci Meth, careful steal, done !
Second up, Atomic theory, careful steal, done !
Third up, Electronics, oh wait, where's my spy ???? He's been EXPOSED ! [cry]

Now, I would have had to plant a new one, kill the production of Hoover, AND steal the tech ........ But the attempt to plant a new one failed, and Aggie will have Hoover now.

Great use of Espionage by both of us ! And, incidentally, we have stumbled upon the reason why ' expose spy' was included [cool]

Aggie
11-08-2003, 23:30
It was bad enough that he got two techs by stealing :( The third one would have been too much, I would have jumped out of my window [headstab].

jack merchant
12-08-2003, 00:46
Oh, but I intend to steal far more than those two alone ! [lol]

Skyfish
12-08-2003, 09:00
Nice to see Aggie finally on the recieveing end of spies...
He also used and abused stealing techs in this game another reason why the AIs are not totally useless in this game Jack [mad]

jack merchant
12-08-2003, 13:23
Well Sky, you know how I have been getting my techs.... and if the AIs can no longer contribute that way, they have reached the end of their useful lives.....[fdevil]

Edit: I've only just said that, and the English come up with Flight ! [eek]

Aggie
12-08-2003, 14:19
Jack, it's always cheaper to 'buy' tech from the AI than to steal it from me ;)

And also: the AI is at peace now, so they will quickly recover! They all will be a democracy quite soon and then the tech pace will be awesome again!

Aggie
14-08-2003, 13:58
quote:Originally posted by jack merchant

Aggie and I agreed to respect the peace treaties we sign - if either of us signs peace with an AI, we are to respect the peace treaty for 20 turns and only sign a new one after that for a genuine new war.


I wonder: are we still doing this? I know I am! That means that I at this moment can't wage war vs the Zulu and Chinese...

jack merchant
14-08-2003, 15:04
I always assumed that agreement was only applicable to MAs signed vs the other human - i.e. you can't resign an AI to war against another human until 20 turns have passed. I see no reason to not abuse and kick around any AI that accidentally gets in our way. More properly, what this meant that I will respect the peace treaties you sign with an AI, not the ones I signed myself.

I've only ever declared war once in this game, and that was vs you. All the other wars so far were due to the mysterious refusals of the AI to leave my territory :D

Aggie
15-08-2003, 23:41
Turn 249:

All war restrictions are off the table once Joan gets modern:

http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/Aggie/2003815224057_AJfrancemodernage.jpg
6.71KB

Aggie
16-08-2003, 00:23
Turn 249 - mid-turn:

My cavalry was able to destroy the core of Russia:

http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/Aggie/2003815232317_AJnorussia.jpg
106KB

anarres
16-08-2003, 00:24
hehehehehehe [soldier]

Skyfish
16-08-2003, 00:26
Who needs tanks anyways ?