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digger760
10-07-2003, 12:16
this is another PBEM i have just started between

Crocodile (from CFC) playing Carthage
Black Waltz (from CFC) playing China
Sir Eric (from CFC, but recently joind CDZ)playing Bablonians
digger760 (me) France

settings are large map, monarch, 4 AI opponents, i forget the rest.

We only started this game last week and have got to 3300BC already, we seem to be able to get 2-4 turns a day due to a freak collision of availible times to play.

WARNING IF YOU GO BY THE NAME OF CROCODILE, SIR ERIC or BLACK WALTZ PLEASE DONT READ ANY FURTHER.

digger760
10-07-2003, 12:20
here is the situation at 3300BC
http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/digger760/2003710111724_croc3300bc.jpg
74.28KB

Paris is going to grow next turn and most likely throw out an angry bastard citizen. In the past i have used the extra citizen as an entertainer, but i think i'd be better to use the lux slider. until the settler arrives.

anarres
10-07-2003, 12:46
digger, always use the lux slider in the early game.

Even when you have 3 or 4 cities and only your capital needs the lux it nearly always makes sense to use the slider rather then have entertainers (the gold is not the critical thing here, but the food and production).

A shit start position, but a 4 turn settler factory possible for city #2. Personally I wouldn't bother with a granary in the capital, at least not until it's produced a settler and a few workers. The second city will need land working quick to get it in to 4-turn settler mode, and a partially rushed Granary. You may even want to think about a very ealy FP in city #3 (past the settler factory) and a later palace jump (done using the formula so you can place it exactly where you want).

digger760
10-07-2003, 13:38
i am curious about this palace jump thing that people have talked about, can you refer me to a thread that explains it more.

anarres
10-07-2003, 14:23
Here it is:

Free Palace Jump (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=47304) by DaveMcW.

I must admit that in SP games I consider this an exploit and don't do it. In PBEM games there hasn't been a decent opportunity for me to try it, so it is theoretical (for me at least). Having said that, I would definitely use it in this situation: your capital is *very* poorly positioned at the end of a peninsula, totally useless for corruption purposes.

digger760
10-07-2003, 15:04
well it looks like an exploit, so i'll have to check with the other players. Otherwise i'll have to build one from scratch somewhere else.

anarres
10-07-2003, 16:06
digger, in my eyes there are no 'playstyle' exploits in PBEM that use the game mechanics. The only exploits in PBEM in my eyes are the 'cheating' exploits (bugs in the game mechanics).

digger760
10-07-2003, 16:50
well word has arrived from our playmaster "Crocodile" that all the expolits listed under http://www.civfanatics.com/civ3cheats.shtml will not be allowed, except for the coastal blocking but that will be damn hard considering we are playing continents.

Even though i have to build the palace brick by brick now, I prefer to play the game the way it was intended, and its makes it more of a challenge.

anarres
10-07-2003, 19:22
Hmm, interesting list.

RoP abuse - 100% impossible to do against a human, and also open to interpretation as to when it is abuse. Again, called an exploit because the AI can't do it and doesn't relate 10+ units outside every city as a sign of imminent attack, not because it 'cheats' the game in any way.

Free Palace Jump - Part of the game mechanics, called an exploit since the AI doesn't do it.

Ship Hopping - Employed by everyone I know when you really need to get the odd unit across a slightly too wide gap. Again, this is only called an exploit because of an AI that can't do it. It's not even game unbalancing agianst the AI.

ICS - 100% jusdgement call as to where a tight build ends and ICS begins. I am amazed this is banned as it only exploits AI stupidity.

So, the 'green list' exploits (not really exploits, but considered such because the AI can't use this part of the intended game functionality) seem a little harsh. I hope you didn't tell this person that you wanted to do the Palace Jump before asking them what was allowed.

I guess my opinion is that this is how the game was designed, and the AI was never able to use these strategies because the AI programmers are not able to work miracles and forsee all the useful strategies at design time.

Just my (very strong) opinion, I have had this conversation loads of times and it always amazes me what people consider an exploit, and more importantly why they still consider some things exploits in MP games. LOL @ RoP abuse and ICS, I look forward to heated arguments about when a 2 tile spacing between cities is an exploit and when it is a tight build, and at when you decide to suddenly attack someone and you happen to have 4 or 5 units moving through their territory to somewhere else. [:o]

ERIKK
10-07-2003, 19:41
[hmm] Ship hopping! [eek]

never heard of it before...

digger760
28-07-2003, 11:22
2190BC i have meet the Persions (AI) on the plains over the sea from paris some time earlier than this. We traded some simple techs.

But i have also meet the Sir Eric (babylonians), some what north and over lots of jungle and mountains. I gave him Warrior Code for Cerimonial Burial + 10 gold (that was all he had ;))

here is the latest screen shot

http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/digger760/200372810193_croc2190.jpg
70.28KB

digger760
28-07-2003, 11:56
i forgot to mention that SirEric mention over msn , that he has also seen the zulu border north of his position.

The sav file loaded with the map set up north, so i guess i'm not far from Sir Eric. (about 6 squares north east)

digger760
09-09-2003, 17:01
played up to 1325BC, game has slowed down a bit :(

have meet Arabs, Persians, Zulus

Decide to buy Writing of Persians for CB and IW + 25 gold
I establish embassies with Arabs, Persians, Zulus and Babylon (Sir Eric).

I trade Writing with Arabs for contact with Spain and 60 gold

Establish embassies with Spain

seems to be all the contact i can get for now

SirEric has no gold or techs to trade, i am about 4 tech up on him.

So the only players to find are Black Waltz and Crocodile,

Here's a screen shot

http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/digger760/20039916020_croc1350.jpg
92.52KB

digger760
15-09-2003, 10:36
1200BC The push for strategic resources

have settled on the square north east of the gold hill (north of Rhiems)
whipped the temple in Lyons, Paris and Orleans are on settler production again.

My only source of iron and horses are to the north. Iron is just north of Tours, i will have to put in a fishing village to get it, cos its all hills around it. Then there is a horse resource much further up in the jungle. I will send my next two settlers to secure these resources.

I seem to be lacking luxuries as well, so i hope to get the gems as well with a 3rd settlement.

Meanwhile Crocodile's capital Carthage is size 7 and is the top city in the world (Paris is number 2, at size 4). I can only guess that as a consequence of this Crocodile will have produced less settlers than me. I have had both paris and orleans building settlers, pretty much constantly ( i think paris might have slipped in a temple at one stage, although i might have change it back to a settler i can remember, in slow PBEMS i tend to change production alot before something is actually built).

digger760
22-09-2003, 17:26
1000BC My setter/warrior combo Encounters a Babylonian warrior in the hills to the south east of the Gem Mountains, as i move into the jungle, he moves back onto the hills possibly trying to distract me from my intended settling location.

Zulus have discovered philosophy. nobody else has it. i am the only person who knows about Persis still, they have saved up 40 odd gold saved up. Arabs also have about 40 gold, thanks to sir eric buying mystacism from them (for 4gpt) i wish he'd have asked me, anyway i hope to take that money off the arabs soon enough.

I have decided to starve Paris out, and build a settler...paris would be better situated 1 tile west, this will bring the wheat and whale into sight, previosly i was thinking of building a filler town to grab the wasted land, but i think now its better to relocate Paris.

Hopefully the capital will jump to Tours. it will be the largest city anyway..must go read up on that palace jump thing again.

EDIT: forgot to mention i gave Sir Eric a loan of gold 10 gold and he repays at 1gpt

digger760
07-10-2003, 16:49
875BC

Big trading round

Persia offers MapMaking for horseback riding, mystacism + 240 gold
EDIT: Persia offers WM for WM
Spain offers World Map for mystacism (they are broke)
Zulu offer Philosophy + territory map for MapMaking + World Map + 90 gold (stingy bastard)
Persia offers 270 gold for philosphy (ahh thats better)
Arabs offer World Map for Philosophy + World Map (These guys a stingy as well :()
Zulu offer WM for WM + 150 gold (i have maths in 10 turns, so hopefull i can get that money back)

Ok...i was too lazy to insert a picture, but i can tell you that Persia is stuck on a relatively small island to the south east of me. That means Black Waltz (playing china) and Crocodile (playing Carthage) are either on there own or share a continent.

Sir Eric does'nt seem to be growing to well, up north, i have grabbed the horses up there and north of him the Zulu's look quite ominous.

Sir Eric and myself will swap territory maps...hmmmm maybe i should ask for his world map..as i know most of his territory and he doesn't know mine at all.

One last thing Carthage built the pyramids (played by Crocodile)

EDIT: now that Zulu and Arabs have the world map with persia on it, does that mean that they have contact? That would be a pity if they do cos i could have traded the contact instead of all the money :(