View Full Version : gothmog vs. anarres
got the map, looks like China is first? But now I know your start position. I did play a turn and save, what should we do now?
Also how do I do attachments? Do I just e-mail you the save?
You could swap civs and then nothing is spoiled. Then I suggest that anarres starts the pbem. But how did you get to play they first turn as the Chinese Gothmog? That is very strange!
I could also make another map, although I really liked this one :(
I don't really like the early GA or the prospect of a 1 move UU, or the fact Gothmog will get a 3 move UU, but I will play the Persians if needed.
Gothmog - Did you open the save via the MP screen? If so then that is the problem, and we can do it properly by me opening the first save from aggie the normal way, and I should get PErsians with the option of having a pasword (as you will do as well). I guess that if I play the save you have sent me you will never have a password...
I can always make a new map guys... I can even use this one and swap the starting positions!
EDIT: working on it right now!
[hmm] well if anarres doesn't like it, maybe I should play as the Chinese!! I can see that the three move UU is going to be big in a PBEM now that I think of it.
All I did was open the game just like I do for a single player, or SG. From the 'Load Game' button. It came up as the first turn for the Chinese. I was never asked for a password. I played the one turn and saved at the end before hitting next turn. Sorry if I did something wrong, I'm a PBEM newbie you know.
Gothmog: I already swapped the starting positions. So you start on the spot that you already saw, as the Persians!! (see map making forum). Anarres will play first though.
And you decribed exaclty how you SHOULD open a save... Strange...
DrAlimentado
06-07-2003, 02:45
just to confirm the original .sav worked ok for me too, weirdness.
and Gothmog - you let anarres take chinese, mwuhahahahahahahaha [satan], be afraid, be very afraid! ;)
but seriously, interesting match-up, persians bloom earlier than china so maybe you can get an early lead that'll make all the difference...
Thanks for the encouragement DrA [rolleyes] - guess I should have perused anarres's spoilers before starting this game huh? Sneaky anarchist earth pig!
I'm indeed hoping to get an early lead w/my UU and GA. Suck up a couple AI's while anarres is still on the other side of the world and has no knights.
Hopefully it'll work out as far as the save etc. Don't know what I could have done wrong.
DrAlimentado
07-07-2003, 02:08
no worries gothmog - in truth I know how good you are from CFC and I'm rather hoping you can drop anarres down the ladder a bit :)
Just looked over your spoilers, anarres. Looks like there are no rules about false trades, peace treaties, RoP rape, etc. yes? Anything goes, I'll have to get used to that. May have to write it on the inside of my eyelids.
What about the game? Surely it can't take you very long to play the first turn and e-mail me the save?
Oh welcome to the Micromanagers turns : 15 minutes pre-2000bc, 30 min between 2000bc and 1000bc .....and you dont want to know the rest :D
[lol] [lol]
Hi, sorry I've been busy beign hastled by people online. [ponder]
Maybe no Civ tonight, but I will try and play this one turn...
Hey those offline people need to get in line. There is great demand to hassle anarres.
So am I correct that the game is anything goes?
Gothmog, I normally have a "use and abuse" policy regarding the AI (i.e. I use and abuse them), but I am happy to discuss any rules you wish.
I do ask for a "no settler creep on the other human" rule, easy to quantify:
"You are not allowed to disband a city and rebuild another in the 8 surrounding tiles in the same turn if and only if the spot you rebuild on is under the border of a human player. Doing this against AI is OK, as is refounding on the same spot, or moving settlers in to position, disbanding, and waiting for the next turn to rebuild."
I also normally ask that this is part of the game mechanics (i.e. breaking this rule results in forfeiting the game). This is in contrast to most treaties that potentially can be broken (although I have never broken a human-human treaty yet myself).
Other treaties can be made before hand, whatever you can think of can be done. Many people choose to have no MA deals against other humans (again as part of the game mechanics), this prevents the kind of trouble I had in my game vs ProPain. If MA deals are allowed you can get games like that of mine against DrA where a no-MA deal was agreed as part of a peace treaty, and like normal treaties we can break it (with the consequential rep hit to all our PBEM games). I am open to ideas here.
Any other suggestions are most welcome, some people even play co-operative for a while, others declare war on first contact and stay like that.
settler creep [hmm] is this something that is usefull when defenses are much better than attack capacity? but wait if two civ's are at war then you can just found cities inside your enemies territory right? Wouldn't you declare war on someone if they did this to you? What is the problem with this compared to other tactics?
I don't think it would be easy to enforce rules so I don't see a need for any. Equal playing field. I'm just not used to being able to extort the AI, then declare war again before 20 turns are up. That's a big advantage tech/culture flip wise. There are plenty of other exploits I can think of too, but I guess I'll wait and try them out myself.
DrAlimentado
08-07-2003, 20:16
settler creep - the thing with this is that with enough settlers you can advance into enemy territory an unlimited amount. Move settler to border, found - now move the next settler past your city 1 tile, disband first city, found, repeat.
I also find it difficult to break certain habits... I realised just last night I have never done a RoP-rape or broken a gpt deal with the AI in pbem (not including goading them into declaring war, but I have always kept my rep intact), for this I am a fool. Strangely I have no problem using settler creep though...
So the issue is being able to advance into enemy territory without declaring war? Presumably to deny resources luxuries and good territory?
I have never done an RoP rape in any game, nor many other exploits. I am thinking this is a big disadvantage. But I learn quickly and am quite adaptable [scratch].
Gothmog, settler creep is useful to get 2 or 3 move units close enough to take a city in 1 turn. With Cavs and a road network in the enemy area you can get to any city and attack the same turn, unless it is surrounded by mountain/jumgle.
It is usually done in wartime. ;)
Gothmog, with my RB background I also do not use exploits in my PBEM (just second nature, I dont even think about them) and that does not mean it is impossible to win or takes the fun out of it...
Well I guess my question is simply that I thought it was possible to settle in enemy territory if one was at war (as long as you aren't in the first ring of an enemy city). Is that wrong?
Edit: ah I see, you do this so you don't have to move your settler into position first. Thus you can take any city in one turn. And this is considered an exploit here at CDZ.
I think the only real exploits are the ones that abuse the game mechanics like reloading, gold bug, mobilisation producition bug and the (old) infinite reload bug.
Everything else is up to us. I am happy to not play with this rule and to play whatever rules you want, maybe even 'honorable' ones.
The only reason 'AI exploits' exist (e.g. RoP rape, deliberate deal making and breaking) in single player games is because the AI can't stand up to us anyway, it is disadvantaged enough, and it does not know how to use these things effectively if at all.
In a PBEM head to head the AI are not the enemy, the other human is. I like to think of the AI as tools to use in your battle against the other human, and since you both have access to the same tools I see no reason to have unenforcable rules of conduct in the game. Just my thoughts.
BTW, this is getting long, here is my start:
Shit, I can't uplaod. :( I will uplaod my pic tomorrow night.
DrAlimentado
09-07-2003, 01:47
you got it Gothmog, you can advance a looong way into enemy territory (if already roaded.. if RR's are available an infinite amount as you move your workers in and RR) all in one turn. It actually only works in wartime because as soon as you settle in enemy territory war is declared (I think).
As to whether it's an exploit - well yes, by any reasonable definition (imo) but unless people state it isn't allowed it goes as far as I'm concerned... Now some might disagree, but if it isn't explicitly disallowed in a game then I will use it and feel no compunction doing so.
I'm fine w/no settler creep as part of the game mechanics. Reloading, gold bug, and mobilisation producing goes without saying - but do we allow mobilization at all? It is hard not to use this one unintentionally when mobilized. We could just do without it.
I'm fine w/using and abusing the AI. It'll add some extra spice to the game for me. But don't be surprized if I bitch and moan about this after you beat the crap out of me [cry] ;)
Gothmog,
I really like mobilisation, it can be very useful. For me it is pretty obvious when this bug is happening now I know about it. Since banning mobilisation is unenforcable anyway (you could mobilise, do the bug and demobilise the same or next turn), I would prefer to allow mobilisation. I am happy to not use it though if you prefer that.
Did you get the turn btw?
It is reasonably obvious when this bug is happening but how do you fix it? I didn't realize that banning mobilisation was unenforcable, you guy's are pretty sneaky! Of course it is equally impossible to tell if the other person is employing the mobilisation but to his/her advantage, or isn't it?
I got the turn, but please send it to gothmog@sisna.com from now on. I set that one up just for my PBEM games and MSN chat's!
I'll play and return when I get home, but I think it will be about 1am for you so I wont expect a quick reply. I will try to start playing my turns before I head off to work (at least while they are still so quick) so we can get better turn around. Also, I'll try to set aside some time on the weekend when we both can be at our computers (I should be able to get MSN hooked up at home I just need 15 minutes to do it - either upgrade my desktop OS, or set up my ethernet and put MSN on my laptop).
OK played my turn and it went fine, asked me for a password and listed the various players. It's all new to me!!
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