So what happened?

[Shabbaman]

I don't pay any attention to Hattrick for a whole season and suddenly we didn't play a cup. I didn't even schedule any friendlies. Especially for you!

[barbu1977]

I was out flag chassing

[socralynnek]

I guess, if we start next week, we could still play quarter final to final.

[barbu1977]

I'm in!

[Shabbaman]

This is the signup-thread?

[barbu1977]

only one spot left!

[barbu1977]

One more. Please!

[akots]

Ok, I can play.

[akots]

We can do two games, cup rules.

[barbu1977]

We can do two games, cup rules.

That's the plan.

I have decided we should seed based on last cup result:
1 Deep Space Elm
2 Chemists
3 Shabba FC
4 Barbiers

Therefore we have, ON NEUTRAL GROUNDS, CUP RULES:
Deep Space Elm - Barbiers
Chemists - Shabba FC

[socralynnek]

Don't forget that we could use two weekends (given no one plays a qualifier)
so we could do 4 games. I'd need to play with my 2nd team (either just one week, or all of the cup, whatever you think, as I have a planned match on tuesday after the qualifiers)

[barbu1977]

I don't expect qualifs on my side

[akots]

I think Chemists cannot do 4 games, I don't have supporter, so only regular normal friendlies on Wednesday. Also, I might face a qualifier, don't know yet.

[socralynnek]

The (new) weekend friendlies between the seasons are for all teams, not only for supporters.

As long as no one else appears, a two-matchdays-cup is perfectly fine for me!

[akots]

The (new) weekend friendlies between the seasons are for all teams, not only for supporters. ...

Is this a new feature? I'm not very involved for the past couple of years. I thought it was only for youth team friendlies.

[socralynnek]

Yes, it's new this season.

So, as far as I can see, no one of us 4 has arranged a friendly for this mid-week yet.

We can either start on wednesday or wait 2 or 3 days more to see whether someone else wants to join and start on saturday (26th of July)
Advantage of playing on the weekends: There is no friendly pool on the weekend anyways and so we'd have a secured match.

But I'm fine with both options.

[akots]

For now, I'll challenge Shabba. Hopefully, he accepts. We'll see how it goes.

[socralynnek]

Shall we play the final and the match for place 3 on this weekend?

[Shabbaman]

Fine by me.

[barbu1977]

I already booked a friendly for this weekend.

[akots]

I don't have a qualifier after all. And I don't think I can access the new option with friendlies on weekend. Might need to login from another computer though, maybe it would work. Or just clean the cookies.

[socralynnek]

The penalty shootout between Barbiers and DSE already lasts for more than 45 minutes...

AFAIK at some point there will be a coin toss...

[socralynnek]

I don't have a qualifier after all. And I don't think I can access the new option with friendlies on weekend. Might need to login from another computer though, maybe it would work. Or just clean the cookies.

Seems like it works with the same time restrictions as other friendlies.
During my match against barbu I couldn't challenge someone, but after the match finished I can make domestic friendlies for the weekend.

So I guess, you'll have to wait until Thursday to be able to arrange a match for the weekend.

[arne1]

WTF, you still started de cup.
There I was thinking CDZ was dead. :-)

[Shabbaman]

The only thing that has died is my interest in hattrick.

[akots]

Same, here. I just linger on with routine Sunday logins. Takes 3-5 minutes after all, no big deal. I'm still curious though what might happen if I spend all my 23 or 25 mil and whether I can get somewhere to Div II in USA or not. I might just do that one day or might just quit. Or might continue lingering. Not sure.

[akots]

Ok, I win. Barely, in overtime. Despite overwhelming possession and way more stars. The engine is certainly bugged out completely. Do I play barbu or ynnek?

Never mind, I looked it up, babru won with an overwhelming score of 19 versus 18. Overtime score before penalties was 4:4. I'm completely sure, the engine is absolutely fucked up, both our games are completely out of line and buggy as hell. Things happen which just cannot happen or have zero probability of happening. Well, they do change the engine though. Why don't they change it for a couple of weak so that a team with less stars always wins. The lower is the number of stars, the more overwhelming the score gets. That would be a nice cup run.

[socralynnek]

Oh, I think the 4-4 against barbu was quite fitting. Both defenses were not strong enough. Mine was even weaker, but I had more in midfield.

[socralynnek]

So, the final is:

Barbiers vs chemists

Game for place 3:

Deep Space Elm vs Shabba FC (I sent out a challenge, Shabba)

[akots]

I think it is all messed up. I first challenged barbu then went to weekend friendlies page and added myself to the pool and since barbu has not accepted yet, I got some friendly booked but not on weekend, just a regular one on Wednesday. Not sure what is going on. Please advise, I obviously need help.

[akots]

Oh, I think the 4-4 against barbu was quite fitting. Both defenses were not strong enough. Mine was even weaker, but I had more in midfield.

Foxtrick predictor showed 13% chance for a draw and you are supposed to win at about 60% chance and most likely score was 4-1 in your favor with 3-2 second favorite. I'd say that roughly chance for a 4-4 draw was less than 1%. The problem is not that these things happen. But that they happen regularly.

[barbu1977]

13%, not that bad. Hoplite VS Tank?

Akots, basically, we need to play the August 2nd game. I'll keep this spot open.

[socralynnek]

I think it is all messed up. I first challenged barbu then went to weekend friendlies page and added myself to the pool and since barbu has not accepted yet, I got some friendly booked but not on weekend, just a regular one on Wednesday. Not sure what is going on. Please advise, I obviously need help.

The pool is for mid-week friendlies only (I don't know whether they added the message there only shortly, but there is a line telling below the button), there is no pool for the weekend (hopefully they'll add that for the next season)

[akots]

Ok, got that.

@ynnek:

No message, no noting. Just endless commercial feast. They somehow manage to select some which cannot even load properly and the whole thing is stuck waiting for doblead whatever. I don't get flashes thanks to flashblock, but I do get annoying gifs.

[barbu1977]

Akots, I have challenged you. please accept the friendly.

[akots]

Akots, I have challenged you. please accept the friendly.

Sorry, no friendly challenges that I can see. Also, checked yesterday as well and there were nothing.

[barbu1977]

There was a weekend friendly tab to select.

I guess we will need to conclude this cup when we are out of our national cups.

[akots]

There was a weekend friendly tab to select.

I guess we will need to conclude this cup when we are out of our national cups.

Yes, I went to that tab. There is something wrong with these weekend friendlies as I cannot schedule one for the second time is a row.

We should post here when either of us is out of the cup so a game can be played.

[socralynnek]

If one of you has a credit to spare, you could also play a duel match.

We are called Civ Duel Zone, so it would fit ;-)

Seems I won the arne award or whatever it is called currently...

[Shabbaman]

A credit?

[akots]

A credit?

What is that? Seems like a money to me. No, ain't got nothing of the sorts.

[socralynnek]

What is that? Seems like a money to me. No, ain't got nothing of the sorts.

The long name is "Hattrick Credits", you can buy them in the Hattrick Shop andyou can pay somestuff like these challenges, ladders, tourneys, duels, player renaming etc. with it.

I think I still have about 20 credits, as supporters got some for free / as compensation / as benefit for something at some point.
When you login into hattrick you can see them on the right hand side if you have some.

[barbu1977]

What is the difference between a Challenge and a single match?

btw 0 credits here and no need to get any.

Also, we could finish this as a single match since we would have played with our main team anyways.

[akots]

OK, I'm out of the cup already and can play that CDZ cup match. I'm having a pretty bad matchmaking luck with the cup for the second season in a row. Last time it was a 350+ star team in division VI and this time, it is a similar 340+ star team in the middle of division V obviously just wintering there. The phenomenon is not that common, may be there are a total of 10-12 300+ star teams in both Div V and VI in the US. So, my chance to meet either of these teams was about 2% and two season in a row, about 0.04% that is close to 1 in 2000. I think, they should change the name of the game from hattrick to "improbable happens" or just plain old "unbelievable shit".

[akots]

OK, sorry, there is some Enterprise cup and apparently, there is no way to cancel that even though I don't care to play there. I have no idea what it is.

[Shabbaman]

I think there's some sort of consolation cup.

[barbu1977]

Yeah, I was about to post the exact same message yesterday when I got beaten in the cup.

Consolation cup for me too.

[socralynnek]

So, my chance to meet either of these teams was about 2% and two season in a row, about 0.04% that is close to 1 in 2000. I think, they should change the name of the game from hattrick to "improbable happens" or just plain old "unbelievable shit".

Or they should call it "Spearman beats tank" ;-)

[barbu1977]

You have been challenged...

[akots]

Challenge accepted.

[barbu1977]

A fifth CDZ cup final and same old story for the Barbiers. I'll never win this stupid thing unless I'm the only team playing.

Good job Chemists!

[Shabbaman]

Well, we can do this 30 more seasons.

[akots]

A fifth CDZ cup final and same old story for the Barbiers. I'll never win this stupid thing unless I'm the only team playing.

Good job Chemists!

Well, you could have won. I was pressing, so that was tricky with your 4-4-2 but IMO, almost any 3-5-2 further increasing your midfield might have done the job. As it were, all chances were crippled and it was hard to score for you.

I'm still struggling to understand but it seems like against pressing, under current match engine version, best bet is to increase attack or increase midfield. Defense can be lowered as the result. I'm not sure however.

[akots]

Well, we can do this 30 more seasons.

Lets try and see how far it can go.

[barbu1977]

Well, you could have won. I was pressing, so that was tricky with your 4-4-2 but IMO, almost any 3-5-2 further increasing your midfield might have done the job. As it were, all chances were crippled and it was hard to score for you.

I'm still struggling to understand but it seems like against pressing, under current match engine version, best bet is to increase attack or increase midfield. Defense can be lowered as the result. I'm not sure however.

I should have played 3-5-2, but I'm training defense. I needed the extra spot. I must say, I did not go through the process of checking your past alignment, I just made my best formation with 4 defense spots.

This if not the fist time I'm getting beaten by pressing. I must check what to do against a pressing team.

[akots]

... I must check what to do against a pressing team.

Pressing just decreases the chances for both sides but has no effect on special events. It does work against long shots if I understand correctly. So, if pressing suppresses 4 events per match (I think I'm between 3 and 4), and without pressing chances were 6 to 4 in your favor, that means that most likely is that 2-3 of you chances are suppressed and 2-1 of my chances are suppressed and 6 to 4 may become either 3-3 or 4-2. Each chance is weighted for scoring (attack vs defense). So, if we get 3-3, you midfield advantage is completely neutralized and only attack vs defense matters. If the match gets 4-2, and my defense is better than your attack which is usually the case for teams playing pressing, you have instead of 6 chances to score only 4 chances. If each chance is let's assume 40%, you score either 3 or 2 goals without pressing or 2 or 1 goals with pressing. By increasing midfield, you can increase chance despite pressing in your favor or increase probability of scoring by increasing attack vs defense.

[socralynnek]

Pressing just decreases the chances for both sides but has no effect on special events. .

Not a direct effect, but if normal chances are pressed away, then a bigger percentage of the goal opportunities are SEs. So their relative importance grows.

.It does work against long shots if I understand correctly..

Yes (at least against the long shots that come from the long shot tactic.

. So, if pressing suppresses 4 events per match (I think I'm between 3 and 4), and without pressing chances were 6 to 4 in your favor, that means that most likely is that 2-3 of you chances are suppressed and 2-1 of my chances are suppressed and 6 to 4 may become either 3-3 or 4-2. Each chance is weighted for scoring (attack vs defense). So, if we get 3-3, you midfield advantage is completely neutralized and only attack vs defense matters. If the match gets 4-2, and my defense is better than your attack which is usually the case for teams playing pressing, you have instead of 6 chances to score only 4 chances. If each chance is let's assume 40%, you score either 3 or 2 goals without pressing or 2 or 1 goals with pressing. By increasing midfield, you can increase chance despite pressing in your favor or increase probability of scoring by increasing attack vs defense.

If you press, you might be unlucky as well and only press away your chances...

As most of the times, pressing is used if offense is lacking vs defense (or if midfield is lacking), then yes, the counter tactic against pressing should be strengthening attack or specialities IMHO.
But still, against a pressing team, you should not give up too much midfield, as your attack can only score if you get chances...

[akots]

... If you press, you might be unlucky as well and only press away your chances...

As most of the times, pressing is used if offense is lacking vs defense (or if midfield is lacking), then yes, the counter tactic against pressing should be strengthening attack or specialities IMHO.
But still, against a pressing team, you should not give up too much midfield, as your attack can only score if you get chances...

Indeed, it is possible. I had it happened a few times.

I use it exclusively when midfield is lacking. It does not help but sometimes, I can draw a lost game and sometimes, score is minimal when I lose. The fans are generally unhappy though but sponsors don't seem to mind. So, I don't think it has financial impact as fans are going to be unhappy anyhow because I'm losing consistently. Whether it is 0-1 (minimal) or 2-4 (without pressing), additional unhappiness has small impact on match attendance. I presume that attendance in not random and depends on weather, position of teams in league, and fan mood. My stadium/arena is constant presumably optimal as I did not touch it for the past 7 or 8 years.

[Shabbaman]

So I managed to get kicked out of the fake cup, how about a new round of CDZ fun?

[akots]

Anytime, just fire it up.

[socralynnek]

I guess, at least my 2nd team will be out of the cup this week, I hope my 1st team survives a little.

But count me in (let'sseethen with which team)!