Rome: Total War Gold Edition

[Darkness]

This weekend I bought Rome: Total War Gold Edition for 2,50. Seemed like a nice bargain. I needed a new game to play anyway, now that I have most of the CiV achievements (134/138, and 2 of the remaining ones are bugged anyway).... ;)

Very interesting balance between turn based strategy and "real" battle simulation.

But quite complex too, with the balance between economy and military appearing to be the key component for success in this game.

Now I already got some pointers from Shabba about burning pigs ;) , but I am sure I will run into more issues that I could use pointers on in the future.

I tried the Imperial Campaign as the Julii last night, but when trying to conquer one of the cities in Northern Italy my army literally got sandwiched between two Gallic armies... Ouch... :(

So obviously that "strategy" didn't work all that well... Does anyone have some tips on how to get a good start to the Imperial Campaign?

[Shabbaman]

You're not on the highest difficulty level I hope?

I have to admit that it's quite some time ago that I tried the Julii. So I did some checking to see if my initial thought was right... The first thing you have to do is to take the two free cities, Segesta and Massilia. Starve Segesta (sieges are boring and the city siege pathfinding is enraging anyway), then rush to Massilia. As a basic pointer, go for any harbor city you can get, since that's where you get the most commerce from.

If you have taken Segesta you can build some forts and then put a token army in it. The zone of control will prevent Gaul movements.

http://i461.photobucket.com/albums/qq331/Legio_Italica_photo/Forts.jpg?t=1233969981

If you have taken Massilia, you've essentially locked the northern italian cities in. This will prevent the Gauls to send in reinforcements. Also: if you just let them do whatever they want, they'd attack you anyway. So you really want to take Massilia to hamper their movement. Before you attack the Gauls you have to build a decent army, something like 8 Hastati, 4 archers, 4 velites, and 8 Principes. Take some cavalry/equites, but don't bother too much with them. If you can't get the principes yet, go with more hastati instead. And unless you're actually trying to get a city through city combat, it's probably smart to put your units into two seperate armies. Don't keep them far apart though.

[Kingreno]

I love this game. Played all civilazations and spend many many hours on it. I do recommend highest diificulty... as it tends to get too easy especially with Romans.

The Julii should get Segesta easily and then build up a few turns to get Mediolanum and Patavium. Go friendly with Britons and/or Germany and wait till they get to war with Gaul and ally with them. Hire some horsemen if they come around, and use your familymembers! Their guardcavalry is great for flanking the huge gaul infantryhordes...

If it takes longer attack the Croat and Dalmatian Rebels, there is gold there and the adriatic is decent for naval trade.

Also, as the Julii, you tend to miss vital trade income; mainly naval trade as that gives very good cash. Keep an eye on either Sardinia and Palma. Carthage usually gets hit by Numidia and the Scipii, so these are easy pickings.

The economy is tricky at the start, use townwatch or peasants as garison for your main towns, they are in no danger of attack at all so need only the MP duty. Focus one city on Infantry and the other on Cav/archers/trade.

[Darkness]

Thanks for the information. :)

I'm making some small progress (medium level). I conquered Segesta and Medolanium. I am now moving into position to conquer Patavium.

Question: I got a senate misson about blocking some port (Syracuse). I can get a boat there, but I don't see any "blockade" option...?

[akots]

If you point to the port building, the cursor should change into blockade.

With vanilla campaign, it is quite hard going in the beginning. Just take it easy and slow but accurately. Medium difficulty becomes very cheesy quite soon since Roman infantry is way too god both in combat characteristics and in morale when positioned properly and timely moved on battlefield. Just don't get yourself surrounded and you cannot lose even against overwhelming odds on a higher ground with a good general.

With gallic hordes and with most other barbarian hordes, the easiest way is to sandwich them between infantry holding the line (hastati and velites are OK but principes are superb) and hammer them in the back with a couple units of cavalry or hastati. They rout almost instantly and it becomes pure slaughter. Having a good general in command is a must though. In case of several large armies marching in, it is possible to give them a well fortified city with a reasonable garrison to besiege and then attack them from within the city. The AI can be easily lured to the walls and will get slaughtered by the defenses and archers. Barbarians seldom build seige equipment early in the game. Even if your sally cannot win the battle, it is going to be a draw if they don't take the city but they will lose a bunch of troops. Thus reduced army can then be defeated easily in the field with a modest Roman force.

Economy needs trade and the most income comes from port cities. Since naval combat is completely broken in vanilla, it may be not worth to build a lot of ships because they get slaughtered by AI armadas. So, it might be better to pursue the lay of the land and just capture these ports using ships only for transport. At some point it gets tricky but eventually, you can generate so much money that happiness becomes easy to maintain even in remote provinces. Also, income generating buildings and roads are of course top priority.

I don't know what is the best mod now, but I played a lot of Total Realism starting from version 5. It is substantially more complex and fixes a lot of exploits apart from being able to play all civilizations and different larger map(s). IIRC, I played Seleucids, Egypt, and Greek Cities to the end which was a great fun. It is also vey enjoyable visually with high quality graphics and huge variety of units and well thought through tactics.

Also not sure about latests patches. IIRC, community patches from player1fanatic were very comprehensive and fixed most of bugs even in the latest patches.

[Darkness]

Some quick questions:

How important is it to have a governor in all cities? I understand havin 1 in your key cities is essential, but do you really need them in all cities? If I understand it correctly you could also just queue some builds in governer-less cities.

How many peasant army units for garrison duty? If there is no threat of invasion then just 1 unit should be fine, right? As long as public order stays above 70%...

Is it better to have 1 huge army (to completely overpower enemy forces and take minimal losses), or is it also a good option to field 2 (or 3 smaller) armies and advance in multiple directions? For example, my main force is trying to conquer northern Italy, but due to the strength of naval trade, I am also considering generating a second army to conquer Sardegna...

Are spies always this slow? I sent a spy to open the gates of Medolanium, and he didnt do it (only 40% chance of success anyway), so I built a battering ram. Next turn I have the ram and attack the city, only to see the gates opened by the spy. But then the light infantry unit holding the battering ram couldn't get rid of the stupid thing and I had to enter the city with fewer men, cause they couldn't get through the gate. :rolleyes:

Should I conquer provinces to block the advance of the other 2 Roman families (Brutii and Scipii) (so conquer the Balkan and attempt to cross to north Africa) or is it more functional/economical to rush north ASAP with my main army?

[Kingreno]

A governor does a few things. mainly: if you enslave a city, slaves get distributed to cities with a gov (great way to increase citysize quickly -> important for better buildings and taxes). Secondly he has a happyness bonus and publicorder and trade bonus. This is good. Also, a governor provides you with at least one decent unit for defence. You do NOT need a gov in smaller cities.

Garison works as under civ 3 in Monarchy. The more the happier. It does not matter which unit it is.

1 Huge army is not my best bet. Especially Rebel states are easily beaten with a small army. so Split up 70-30. One for your main enemy, one for getting cities quickly.

Spies: I do not get your comment. If a spy has 40% oddds you only know if he succeeds if you open the attack screen. Spies are great, and not so slow IMO.

A unit CAN drop the ram, just select it and click abandon siege eq.

You roman "allies" will become your enemies but in the spirit of teh game I do let them do their part. I have notices that mainly the scipii AI is horrible and cannot beat Carthage... IMO: Julii should get everything between Gibraltar and Russia. :)

[Shabbaman]

How important is it to have a governor in all cities? I understand havin 1 in your key cities is essential, but do you really need them in all cities? If I understand it correctly you could also just queue some builds in governer-less cities.

You don't need a governor, but most of the time a governor has some benificial effect (as specified in his text box). I'm sure you like the micromanagement aspect of it ;)

How many peasant army units for garrison duty? If there is no threat of invasion then just 1 unit should be fine, right? As long as public order stays above 70%...

Hm, I'm not sure how many units have a positive aspect on happiness, but you're correct if you say it's at least 1.

Is it better to have 1 huge army (to completely overpower enemy forces and take minimal losses), or is it also a good option to field 2 (or 3 smaller) armies and advance in multiple directions?

Build as many armies as you have generals to spare. It's even a good idea to split your army if you're advancing in the same direction.

Are spies always this slow? I sent a spy to open the gates of Medolanium, and he didnt do it (only 40% chance of success anyway), so I built a battering ram. Next turn I have the ram and attack the city, only to see the gates opened by the spy. But then the light infantry unit holding the battering ram couldn't get rid of the stupid thing and I had to enter the city with fewer men, cause they couldn't get through the gate. :rolleyes:

You can drop siege weaponry. Somehow. At least, in some versions of Total War ;)

Should I conquer provinces to block the advance of the other 2 Roman families (Brutii and Scipii) (so conquer the Balkan and attempt to cross to north Africa) or is it more functional/economical to rush north ASAP with my main army?

Well, it depends on what you want. My personal preference is to optimise my tax income. The easy way is to conquer mediterranean ports. But having pissed Gauls at your border is not much fun either, so I'd at least dedicate some part of your army to cleaning up Gaul. And there's usually coming some trouble from Spain, so you could get those ports as well :D At some point you'll want to eliminate the Brutii and Scipii anyway. As long as they're not getting the big cities in the east you might want to let them do their thing and focus on pacifying your own lands so that that won't tie your hands when you're backstabbing your roman friends. Keep an eye out on their garrisons in Italy. Also, keep farming assassins until they're good enough to pick off their generals.

[Darkness]

Spies: I do not get your comment. If a spy has 40% oddds you only know if he succeeds if you open the attack screen. Spies are great, and not so slow IMO.

A unit CAN drop the ram, just select it and click abandon siege eq.


I completely missed the 40%... :(
It worked much better the second time against Patavium. :) Those gates opened immediately. :) Found the "drop ram" button too, thanks!


I played a little last night. I've got 6 cities now. The five in Northern Italy and I conquered Caralis for the Senate. Which should also help the naval trade department, so that was a pretty nice Senate suggestion.

My primary army is now on it's way to Palma, to conquer another Mediteranean island. Should work fine, I sent the spy out ahead of the army. After that I will land the army on the southern coast of France to take the war to the Gauls. I am building a second army (got a decent (3-star) general who once was governor of Segesta) in the North of Italy, so they can cross to France too. But right now I can only build Hastati, so all I have is infantry in that second army. Which should be the backbone of the army anyway, but it's be nice to have some diversity.

I could hire some mercenary cavalry, but is that worth the costs? (about 1200 for a cavalry unit, I think)

Do Rebels keep spawning the entire game? I've already had three armies of rebels spawn just east of Rome, south of my second city. Which gave my secondary army some seasoning, but it's going to be quite annoying if I have to keep some army there the entire time...

[Shabbaman]

I could hire some mercenary cavalry, but is that worth the costs? (about 1200 for a cavalry unit, I think)

Mercenaries can be awesome. IIRC slingers from Crete are the best missile unit in the game, it's worth it to go to Greece only for them. Every region has different mercenaries available, be sure to check out their stats. Basically it doesn't really matter how good your cavalry is, as you'll be using them as shock troops mainly. It's like KR wrote: just get your cavalry in their back while you push in the front, and any cavarly will do the trick. Keep some spears on your wings to prevent their cavalry from flanking you.

[Darkness]

What's the "retrain" option about? What does this do and when does it become available in cities?

[Shabbaman]

If you have a blacksmith or something like that in a city, you can get the troops that are trained there better weaponry. That's what retraining does.

[Furiey]

It will also replenish troops to full complement after some are lost in battle.

So retrain will bring a unit up to the full strength of a new unit trained in that city.

[Darkness]

Thanks again! :)

Next questions:
- How do you set rally points? And can you reset them later on to different locations? This MM with multiple cities producing troops is getting a bit tedious...

- Is there any Viagra for these lazy Romans? They seem to be producing very few offspring, which means that even though I have only 2 armies with generals running around, I still am lacking a governor in 4 out of my 10 cities, and I expect this will get worse if/when my empire grows...

- Can I get family members by other means than birth and marriage? I read something online about bribing enemy generals to join your faction or promotions (captains getting promoted to general for some very heroic battle result without one of my own generals present)...

[Shabbaman]

Thanks again! :)

Next questions:
- How do you set rally points? And can you reset them later on to different locations? This MM with multiple cities producing troops is getting a bit tedious...

Don't remember. Try right-clicking somewhere.

- Is there any Viagra for these lazy Romans? They seem to be producing very few offspring, which means that even though I have only 2 armies with generals running around, I still am lacking a governor in 4 out of my 10 cities, and I expect this will get worse if/when my empire grows...

Lower taxes, more food, more green temples to whatever goddess lives there. Vespa? No. Eh. Ceres, that's probably it.

- Can I get family members by other means than birth and marriage? I read something online about bribing enemy generals to join your faction or promotions (captains getting promoted to general for some very heroic battle result without one of my own generals present)...

Bribing works, random events work, sending your troops into battle without a general works.

By the way, besides burning pigs, wardogs are also awesome against barbarians.

[ProPain]

Now it's been ages since I played and I didnt even finish the Julii campaign but I do remember that my family members went at it as rabbits. I could easily get each city a governor although some had crappy governor stats. But he, when your a annexed city you shouldn't complain anyway :)

[Darkness]

Does anybody have any suggestions about battlefield tactics agains heavy infantry in the early game (first 40 turns or so)?

In particular agains those Naked Fanatics that the Gauls field quite a lot...

Right now I use Velites (which are crappy, BTW) to thin their numbers some before I pin them in place with my Hastati, and then use horse units (preferably the generals bodyguard) to hit them from the side or the rear. Which works quite well, as they die fairly quickly once the cavalry comes in, but they certainly extract a fairly heavy toll on the Hastati. It would be great to minimize the losses, since Hastati are the backbone of any decent Roman army that I can field...

[Shabbaman]

They're naked, so archers should do the trick. They have low discipline, so basically the best goal is to punish them for not keeping the line. In other words: hit their flanks. You could also try wardogs, iirc you can get them early in the game. They are very good against the barbarians. Keep the retainers safe, the dogs are expendable (like ammo).

[Darkness]

They're naked, so archers should do the trick. They have low discipline, so basically the best goal is to punish them for not keeping the line. In other words: hit their flanks. You could also try wardogs, iirc you can get them early in the game. They are very good against the barbarians. Keep the retainers safe, the dogs are expendable (like ammo).

Thanks. I outflanked them in a couple of big battles and now they're no longer a problem. It's almost 250 BC, and I've pushed the Gauls back to a mere 2 provinces (the one in Spain, and the coastal one in the north of France). An army is already enroute towards the one in France, but unfortunately the Spanish decided to backstab me and cancel our alliance so I will first have to kill some Spaniards before I can finish the Gauls...

Question: What are good targets for training assassins? Low influence diplomats are probably the best option but there aren't many of those running around in my little part of the map, so any other suggestions would be appreciated.

[Shabbaman]

Thanks. I outflanked them in a couple of big battles and now they're no longer a problem. It's almost 250 BC, and I've pushed the Gauls back to a mere 2 provinces (the one in Spain, and the coastal one in the north of France). An army is already enroute towards the one in France, but unfortunately the Spanish decided to backstab me and cancel our alliance so I will first have to kill some Spaniards before I can finish the Gauls...

And there's usually coming some trouble from Spain, so you could get those ports as well :D

Heh...

Question: What are good targets for training assassins? Low influence diplomats are probably the best option but there aren't many of those running around in my little part of the map, so any other suggestions would be appreciated.

Rebel armies, or any army without a real general.

[Darkness]

So, I got bored with the Julii at M/M level after butchering the Gauls. I was just steamrolling Spain, Brittain and Germany simultaneously. Which was a bit too easy, IMHO...

So I quit that game and decided to start a new game at H/H. And since I was tired of fighting barbarians, I decided to pick a different Roman faction. I tried the Brutii. Interesting start, crossing to Greece. I got Thermon quickly too, but then it got more difficult. I wanted to take Athens because that seems to be a huge powerhouse city for trade, but them bastards keep destroying my battering rams. Does anyone have any suggestions on how to conquer cities with large stone walls and strong gates in the early game (255 BC or so) ? I could probably try to starve them, but that would take 8 turns. Or would this also be quicker if I block the port?

Also, does the AI always win naval battles? I had a nice fleet of triremes (5 triremes and 3 briremes) and I was attacked by a rebel fleet which I outnumbered almost 2-1, and I still lost ("average defeat")... :(

[Shabbaman]

Can't you have a spy open the gates for you?

[Darkness]

Can't you have a spy open the gates for you?

I could, but the chance of succes is generally quite low with unexperienced spies and big cities in the beginning of the game (at least the numbers that I have seen)...

[Furiey]

Naval battles are always annoying and I always seem to lose too. They didn't introduce proper naval battles that you could control until Empire.

[Kingreno]

The Brutii... the powerhouse of teh Romans, if played well they are the strongest faction. Make sure to build temples of Mars in your main 2 unitsbuilding cities and Mercury for trade in teh others. I'd go for Apolonia for teh easy 5000 dinarii and the NOT take Thermon too soon, The greeks are strong early on, on high levels. The trick is: they will be attacked by 2 to 5 adversaries in the comming 10 turns. (Scipii in Syracuse, Pontus and Seleucids in Turkey, Thrace in the North, Macedonia everywhere). If Brutii attack too soon they will send all units to Brutii. Instead take over Illyria (2 cities in Croatia/Bosnia) first. These cities are small but both can support a mine (200 dinarii per turn+tradable goods!).

On Athens' walls: Attack ONLY if you have: 4+ cata's and can lose half an army. Otherwise just starve'em.

Forget Athens for now. Take Thermon after Illyria, it should be virtually undefended, then go straight to Sparta (what a prize!). You can take it by laying Siege, most of the time a small army will attack you and you can fighht them outside of the city. Or, wait out the 6-8 turns...

Keep Macedon at peace for now, try to grab Krete for trade and you MAIN GOAL: Rhodes. Thye colossus provides +40% naval trade. If you get: Southern Italy, Dalmatia, Thermon, Sparta, Krete and Rhodes you have 7 ports with a TON of trade. The game is.... over.

[Darkness]

Thanks! :)

For clarification: Do you mean going to Sparta by ship? Won't that be terribly risky, considering the large navy that Greece seems to have?

[Darkness]

For clarification: Do you mean going to Sparta by ship? Won't that be terribly risky, considering the large navy that Greece seems to have?

I guess you did. :)
I hopped my army on the boat at Thermon and they actually arrived at Sparta the next turn. Which didn't even have walls... :rolleyes:

I took Corinth and Athens quickly after that, using siege towers instead of battering rams (worked quite well)... :)

Seems like a good start to the game. I now have 8 cities (the 2 in Italy, Appolonia and Salona on the Adriatic sea, and Thermon, Corinth, Sparta and Athens) by 262 BC. Time to build up the economy and a bigger army and make a move on the Macedon cities... :)

[Kingreno]

Don't forget Rhodes and Crete. Trade will skyrocket!!

For some fun, send a few units to Palma or Sardinia if the Julii didn't get them.

[Darkness]

How can you get rid of the plague in Thessalonica? So far it's not spreading but I had intended this city to be one of my major military producers... And that's kind of hard when you're losing 700 people a turn due to the plague.... :(

Up to 15 cities now, in 250 BC. All of Greece is mine, so I have now invaded Turkey. I also tried to get Crete and Rhodes. Crete was easy, but the Greeks had a huge horseman army on Rhodes, which butchered my 600-something army of infantry and archers/velites.... Disappointing, since this ill-fated invasion also got my second-best general killed (4-star)...

[akots]

Plague is bugged in the original game even after the latest patch.

Looks like the game is in the bag. The only challenge you have now is to maintain happiness at acceptable level which requires a steady income and some surgically limited military operations. At some point, not sure really when, you have to stop and consolidate. Otherwise,growing too large too rapidly might lead to some provinces captured back either by rebels or by adversaries. No big deal, will get them back eventually later on, just make sure that all enemies are contained.

Against rebels, you can build forts for visibility to get rid of fog of war.

I remember the Greek horsemen army was running around somewhere all the time. To fight against it, you can use Greek mercenaries (phalanx or hoplites). Not sure which ones are available in unmodded game. They will soften and hold the cavalry somewhere on a higher ground in the corner and then pretorians can jump in the chop up the rest. AI never disengages the cavalry after a charge. So, once it is stuck in a close combat, it remains there completely stuck. Just need to strike at the flank or rear. Hastati can hold their own as well sometimes with a good general but they need to be positioned in the corner at least 5 or 6 ranks deep.

The only counter to Roman infantry is missile cavalry.

[Matrix]

I bought this game twice, because the second time I forgot I bought it before. [tongue]
(It became a birthday present for my brother.)

[ProPain]

I've had that with CD's. Last one I bought twice was Rated R from Queens of the Stone Age. Suddenly I'm holding the same CD in both hands thinking, what the heck......

[Shabbaman]

The nice thing about the plague is that you can send diplomats from the infected city to "visit" your opponents. It's the second best feature of the game, after the burning pigs.

[Kingreno]

@shabbaman LOL! That is evil!!

On highest difficulty the Roman Infantry is tweaked down a lot. Thet will likely NOT live out a one-on-one with several other infantry units, especialy the Germanic tribes elite spearmen, but also greek hoplites or Carth Sacred bands. This makes the game so much harder and a true challenge.

[Darkness]

On highest difficulty the Roman Infantry is tweaked down a lot. Thet will likely NOT live out a one-on-one with several other infantry units, especialy the Germanic tribes elite spearmen, but also greek hoplites or Carth Sacred bands. This makes the game so much harder and a true challenge.

I guess then it's fortunate that I'm not playing on the hardest difficulty level, since I tend to have my infantry lock up the AI's infantry in battle, while flanking him with my cavalry. Which sort of makes it neccessary for the infantry to at least hold their own until the cavalry arrives... ;)

The current game seems to have passed its most difficult stretch. I need to consolidate Greece now (build a strong border with Dacia and Thrace in the north) while I claim Turkey (and Rhodes!) to boost my economy to serious levels (I'm already making >10.000 denarii every turn). I think the coastal parts of Turkey, with all the trade across the seas with Greece and those World Wonders would still significantly boost my empire. The only problem with that is that I now first need to build up some forces (I only have one army in Turkey (about 75% full) and the Pontus have 2 full banner armies close to my borders. But then again, my army has an 8-star general. :)


Quick question: how old do family members get? I lost my faction leader to old age when he was 62 or 63....

[Matrix]

The nice thing about the plague is that you can send diplomats from the infected city to "visit" your opponents.
Nifty! :D

[Furiey]

The nice thing about the plague is that you can send diplomats from the infected city to "visit" your opponents.
I hadn't thought of that, must try it next time!

[Shabbaman]

I think you need spies (instead of diplomats) to do that with, as they enter the city. I stumbled upon it on accident, when one of my spies got infected. You can also do it with your own generals, but then you can only spread the plague to your own cities.

[ProPain]

, but then you can only spread the plague to your own cities.

That doesn't sound very usefull to me

[Shabbaman]

I was just mentioning it for completion's sake. It's hard to predict other people's weird strategies. Never underestimate stupidity.

[ProPain]

I just forgot to put a smiley at the end of my last post. Wasn't serious remark. Funny you can do that however.

[Furiey]

I think it's the version I managed to do though first time the plague appeared...[xx(]

[akots]

That doesn't sound very usefull to me

It might be useful if you run into a heavy happiness problem to decrease the population and reduce unhappiness.

[akots]

... Quick question: how old do family members get? I lost my faction leader to old age when he was 62 or 63....

That might be the only death of old age you experience. It is random and with some good luck you can make it to around 70. Usually, they get assassinated (it is a good idea always have a spy attached to your best generals) or die in battle. You can most likely win the game before your heir dies of old age.

[akots]

... On highest difficulty the Roman Infantry is tweaked down a lot. Thet will likely NOT live out a one-on-one with several other infantry units, especialy the Germanic tribes elite spearmen, but also greek hoplites or Carth Sacred bands. This makes the game so much harder and a true challenge.

Not really. IMO, if you can maintain the formation to avoid flanking and have enough veteran units (silver chevron principes), they can hold on although the losses will be large and will take long time to replenish. It just takes more time to move forward with conquests. On higher difficulties, AI is given large boost to morale to they don't rout too easily getting eliminated almost completely instead but their combat stats and numbers remain the same. AI is not building more troops on VH/VH especially early in the game but tends to invest in economy and improvements in my experience. It is nice because when you capture a province, it might be well improved.

Germans are indeed somewhat painful to fight early on. Although they do not maintain a steady line and are easy to flank. Cavalry strikes in the rear followed by rapid retreat immediately after the charge are also possible. Although, it is a bit risky since sometimes the cavalry can get stuck.

[Shabbaman]

I never manage a proper rapid retreat with my cavalry in any version of TW :(

[akots]

It is not that tricky IMO. Just charge (double click) in a narrow deep formation (at least 5-6 rows deep) and almost immediately upon contact click back some distance in the direction of where your cavalry came from. Then rinse and repeat, sometimes 4-5 times. If some individual cavalry gets stuck, just click again on retreat destination and they will either disengage or die. When the melee cursor appears on cavalry, it becomes harder to disengage because they are moving slowly and more soldiers eventually get stuck. If you are engaging with only the first row, a part of this row will go down and the rest should be able to retreat. Every time you do that, there are some casualties of the defenders and morale goes down. In case of hoplites or sacred band, you have to come almost directly from the rear and not from a side since they have some designated flank soldiers although they are fighting only with swords and not with pikes. In case of German spearmen and other assorted infantry flanking works pretty well. Also, keep in mind that the main idea is not to completely annihilate the enemy but to break their formation so that your holding infantry can wrap it up and then cavalry can just pursue the routers and get one or two extra chevrons.

In the very beginning when I started to play it was also kind of hard, so I exercised a bit with simple battles against rebels with 4-5 enemy infantry units (typical rebellion size) against one Roman light cavalry and 2 hastati and it worked pretty well. You can do it with just one hastati and a good general. As long as there is no melee icon appearing on your cavalry, the general is in no real danger. To make the enemy spread out and get separated into blocks of 2-3 units you can lure a couple to the side of the map with general which they will almost always pursue, and then run back to save the engage hastati. By the time these distracted units reach the hastati (positioned at the endge of the map on a hill, the first wave of attackers should be defeated and routing. The second wave will be winded and tired (penalty to morale) and they break almost instantly. Killing captain also helps. For larger battles, it is essentially similar. Infantry stays in the corner on a hill in deep ranks and cavalry runs around luring, flanking and rearing the attackers. Just need to pay attention.

IMO, in RTW it is substantially easier to defend (similar to Shogun TW 1) on vH/vH since you will naturally have smaller armies than AI due to difficulty bonuses. Roman light cavalry is very fast and general bodyguards are nearly invincible. Archers suck though the issue is remedied by capturing Crete and Rhodes and regularly harvesting mercenaries there. The goal of maneuvering is mainly to hurt enemy morale (another AI bonus) as much as possible prior to engagement. If they march twice across the map lured by your general, their morale will be awful and they will be exhausted especially if the last part of battlefield they are running up the hill slope while being stuffed with Cretan arrowheads.

[ProPain]

Thinking I should play RTW again and try this all out. I;m more of head butting battle type :)

[Darkness]

What's the best way to use your family members in this game?

I kind of get the feeling that they're more useful on the battlefield than as governors... A general's bodyguard is the best unit on the battlefield, so it can make a big difference in winning or losing a battle.

Even 2 family members in the same army is great. One can stay with the infantry to plug any gaps that the enemy may create, and the other one can lead the cavalry charge at the rear and the flanks of the enemy units once they're engaged with your infantry units...

[Furiey]

RTW is available for £2.50 on D2D UK at the moment.

http://www.direct2drive.co.uk/4/3119/product/Buy-Rome:-Total-War-Gold-Edition-Download

[akots]

... I kind of get the feeling that they're more useful on the battlefield than as governors...

How many armies do you have active in the field? Probably 5-6, no more than that. All the rest of the generals can sit in a province and govern something. Especially those which have some kind of retinue or are good at public order maintenance. Also, if you are short on generals and every time you win a battle with a captain, you have some chance of this captain adoption in the family. IIRC, this chance significantly decreases when you have enough generals but I'm not sure about that. It is considerably faster way to get new generals than just wait for the game engine to offer adoption in case of shortage of generals. Sometimes you get a zero start general who might even have some negative battlefield trait or some bad retinue which decreases morale of the troops. This guy can be still trained to be a good general or you can leave him be and let him rot in some province as a governor. At least, this automatically guarantees gradual acquisition of some more or less useful traits depending on the buildings that are built there.

[Kingreno]

Family members' usefullness in battle decreases as the game progresses. As you cannot get decent cav till the middle/late game (as romans certainly)... This is ok as in the later game the familymembers are much needed for happyness in cities.