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ProPain
13-12-2010, 14:51
In my hunt for gold medals I discovered something weird.

The damage done by towers is a lot higher (or better aimed perhaps) when running in normal speed than running in fast speed (pressing the F key)

I was having huge trouble getting the fire control Green Tower Only gold medal untill I ran the last few waves in slow mode. Suddenly the big swarmer pack was annihilated a lot sooner (about the length of 4-5 towers)

Retried this a few times and I'm sure that speeding up the game will somehow lose you damage. This won't be a big deal normally but it can turn out to be huge in a green tower challenge or when you're really aiming for a high leaderboard entry. Cause killing sooner = money sooner = more interest.

Beorn
13-12-2010, 19:56
Wow, nice one.

I'm currently doing the gold medals on early levels, testing mixes of towers. So far a 50/50 mix of lasers and guns seems to be best, with maybe 2-3 inferno/temporal combos when/where the map calls for it. It looks as though the heat effect of lasers is better $-wise that standard gun but that since it doesn't stack, you max out and need to get gun. Someone also said something on their forum about laser+temporal to set up heat effects on mass crowds instead of using a "brute aoe" inferno but I'm skeptical about that.

I read concussion is better vs shield mass and that well placed cannons rock maze levels, but I'm not there yet. I also read that missile towers are best massed at lvl 1 rather than upgraded since fliers don't have enough HP to warrant higher damage rockets. Apparently, some of the "green towers only" challenges require you to build/sell towers to change paths, aka "juggle" creeps, in order to pass them.

I don't yet know whether mortar, concussion or inferno is best for dealing with masses in general; I suppose concussion is best when you have a sweet round spot, otherwise mortar because it shoots much longer.

Darkness
13-12-2010, 23:40
Has anyone tried the DLC's already? And if so, are the maps any good?

ProPain
14-12-2010, 02:20
I bought the 1st map pack and I they're good maps. Quite challenging. Do note that each pack only contains 2 maps so don't expect 20 new maps or so. The maps come with several challenges like the normal maps.

I plan to buy all maps, but first I'm working on the master strategist achievement :)

Darkness
14-12-2010, 10:53
I bought the 1st map pack and I they're good maps. Quite challenging. Do note that each pack only contains 2 maps so don't expect 20 new maps or so. The maps come with several challenges like the normal maps.

I plan to buy all maps, but first I'm working on the master strategist achievement :)

Thanks. :)

Master strategist? That's a gold medal on all story levels, right?
Some maps are really, really challenging to get gold medals on BTW. "Barrier to entry" took me quite a few tries, but in hindsight it was actually really simple. "Containment" was very difficult though (for me anyway)...

ProPain
14-12-2010, 10:59
Master strategist is a gold medal on all the challenges in the awakenings campaign, about 80 in total. I'm about halfway now.

All gold in normal story mode is 'Alien tears' iirc.

Rik Meleet
14-12-2010, 14:42
I like guntowers; they seem very cost-effective and quick.

(I haven't played for some time; I've gone back to civ 3; Giga map with 32 civs.)

Shabbaman
14-12-2010, 16:08
I can't keep all my cores, so I guess I'm doing something wrong.

ProPain
14-12-2010, 16:26
You can't keep your cores on a certain level or are you referring to the never have an alien even touch a core achievement? Cause the achievement is really easy on out of fuel map, story reversed challenge.

Shabbaman
14-12-2010, 17:12
What achievements? I'm simply referring to story mode, to keep them from taking my cores (to someplace outside of the map). I don't care if they touch them, but if there's a way to prevent them to touch them that'd certainly them from taking my cores ;)

Darkness
14-12-2010, 22:29
Master strategist is a gold medal on all the challenges in the awakenings campaign, about 80 in total.



Ah, right...

Does that include the "poison core" missions? Those are really tough, IMHO. That damn core keeps killing aliens, which I need to get a high enough score for a gold medal (on one of the very first levels :( )...

ProPain
15-12-2010, 00:22
@darkness: yes that includes the poison core missions. And I totally agree they can be quite a pain. Although the Out of Fuel Green Tower only gave me most trouble untill now.

Shabba:
- What mission are you stuck on?
- What towers do you use?

Shabbaman
15-12-2010, 11:26
It's not that I get stuck, but I can't get high scores. The problem is the aliens that create either shields or stealth for the aliens around them. I can keep off the initial waves (cannons usually do the trick), but there's always a point where you get racers and shields. Maybe I'm not building enough temporal towers to maximize the effect of my cannons? Does that effect stack? Usually I'm building just two.

Also, I'm hardly building gun towers.

Rik Meleet
15-12-2010, 14:55
Build guntowers ;)

ProPain
15-12-2010, 18:42
I rarely build cannons, I build heaps of guntowers.

Cannons can be good, but they are slow and can't hit up close. So when you build them, build em in your 2nd line.

Guntowers are really good, cheap so you can build a quick maze if you need to and they do a fair bit of damage. The key however is to upgrade, I try to get like 3 or 4 guns upgraded with a temporal tower close. Upgrade the temp tower at least once also. Double upgrade guntowers asap.

For air units missile towers are the way to go. Even a yellow missile tower will blast complete waves of air units to bits. I can't recall ever needing more than 1 red missile tower in any mission so far.

When missions have lots of little packed units like he swarmers I think upgraded inferno towers are good as well. Make sure you place a temporal tower close to your inferno tower for extra effect. All the grinders I played till now I just build inferno + temporal and upgraded. Maybe I built 1 or 2 guntowers for the first wave so I could build an extra tower in the maze, but after that: just inferno. Easily won them all. For later grinder missions the 'bombing tower' (concussion iirc) should work good as well.

Furiey
15-12-2010, 21:18
I almost stopped using guns at one point, then I came across one mission where I was really short of cash but needed more damage quickly so kept building guntowers. I was amazed how effective massed guns were and I got through that mission after really struggling on previous ones.

Beorn
18-12-2010, 03:26
Images of all the maps, from http://forums.steampowered.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1323580

DG:The Awakening:
====================
01 - The Awakening
http://defensegrid.hiddenpath.com/image/view/444/_original

02 - Assessing The Threat
http://defensegrid.hiddenpath.com/image/view/445/_original

03 - Ancient Research
http://defensegrid.hiddenpath.com/image/view/446/_original

04 - Long Descent
http://defensegrid.hiddenpath.com/image/view/447/_original

05 - Out of Fuel
http://defensegrid.hiddenpath.com/image/view/448/_original

06 - Fire Control
http://defensegrid.hiddenpath.com/image/view/449/_original

07 - Barrier to Entry
http://defensegrid.hiddenpath.com/image/view/450/_original

08 - Focal Point
http://defensegrid.hiddenpath.com/image/view/451/_original

09 - Flight Plan
http://defensegrid.hiddenpath.com/image/view/452/_original

10 - Veil of Ice
http://defensegrid.hiddenpath.com/image/view/453/_original

11 - Cold Storage
http://defensegrid.hiddenpath.com/image/view/454/_original

12 - Guardians Fall
http://defensegrid.hiddenpath.com/image/view/455/_original

13 - Center of Power
http://defensegrid.hiddenpath.com/image/view/456/_original

14 - Standing Orders
http://defensegrid.hiddenpath.com/image/view/457/_original

15 - Crossed Signals
http://defensegrid.hiddenpath.com/image/view/458/_original

16 - Containment
http://defensegrid.hiddenpath.com/image/view/459/_original

17 - Turnabout
http://defensegrid.hiddenpath.com/image/view/460/_original

18 - Waste Disposal
http://defensegrid.hiddenpath.com/image/view/461/_original

19 - Lockdown
http://defensegrid.hiddenpath.com/image/view/462/_original

20 - Last Stand
http://defensegrid.hiddenpath.com/image/view/463/_original


DG:Borderlands:
====================
01 - Onslaught
http://defensegrid.hiddenpath.com/image/view/810/_original

02 - Forge
http://defensegrid.hiddenpath.com/image/view/811/_original

03 - Entanglement
http://defensegrid.hiddenpath.com/image/view/812/_original

04 - Infiltration
http://defensegrid.hiddenpath.com/image/view/813/_original


DG:Resurgence:
====================
01 - Service Interruption
http://defensegrid.hiddenpath.com/image/view/996/_original

02 - Height of Confusion
http://defensegrid.hiddenpath.com/image/view/997/_original

03 - Risk Exposure
http://defensegrid.hiddenpath.com/image/view/1008/_original

04 - Roundabout
http://defensegrid.hiddenpath.com/image/view/1009/_original

05 - Urban Planning
http://defensegrid.hiddenpath.com/image/view/1022/_original

06 - Tactical Diversion
http://defensegrid.hiddenpath.com/image/view/1023/_original

07 - Kill Zone
http://defensegrid.hiddenpath.com/image/view/1044/_original

08 - Overflow
http://defensegrid.hiddenpath.com/image/view/1045/_original

Cannon towers are AWESOME on all-green challenges. I'd build a few temporal/laser combos for the effect, a few infernos or meteors for masses where it fits the map, and tons of cannon. They can shoot over one another, unlike guns, and their range makes them really good. It ranked me #82 on all-green fire control (the first with cannons: 2 meteors on the top-left island, 1 on the topmost's left corner, 1 inferno on the left of the strip strip, 2 temp+laser on top-right island and to the right of the strip, rest cannons).

But in general, yes to red guns. Especially on poison core levels where you can't afford fancy mazes and you need to kill everything fast.

ProPain
19-12-2010, 00:06
It ranked me #82 on all-green fire control (the first with cannons: 2 meteors on the top-left island, 1 on the topmost's left corner, 1 inferno on the left of the strip strip, 2 temp+laser on top-right island and to the right of the strip, rest cannons).



I went for a similar approach on this map but had a really hard time getting gold medal. Could you tell me in what order you build em and on what positions exactly. I'd really like to reproduce what you did and see what happens when I do that.

Darkness
19-12-2010, 00:27
I just got a no. 25 ranking on Focal Point grinder using almost exclusively inferno and meteor towers. :)

ProPain
19-12-2010, 01:43
nice one!

Beorn
19-12-2010, 06:31
Nice! How did you map it? I did something like this and it worked well enough for story challenge but I can't seem to get a decent start on grinder without going for a ton of guns first.

As for Fire Control: I *think* that's the order how I did it, but I'm not really sure. Basically you spam cannons and gradually mix in temp+laser together for fast (and mass yellows), meteor (for mixed swarms) and pop inferno right at the end. Hold off until you build. I generally try and keep my cores within view of the end to keep the income multiplier maxed out rather than play it tighter for more piled gold - but not more than that.

Darkness
19-12-2010, 12:59
Nice! How did you map it?

Something like this.

Red is inferno
blue/purple is meteor
green is temporal
black is gun (but these are placeholders (to block movement) on the first few platforms (changed to inferno on the first platform and to meteor on the second platform))

The trick is to make 'em move around the map as long as possible, and to block key shortcuts with guntowers until you can have enough money to get the towers you really want.

The center platform is the key to the strategy. Those meteor towers are capable of doing damage over almost the entire map.

Shabbaman
19-12-2010, 14:22
I have a higher score than Propain on Lockdown, so I guess I'm doing okay. And yes, I'm only posting this to ruin his sunday.

Beorn
19-12-2010, 19:34
I am sooooooo crashing that ego contest party, shabba ;)

Beorn
19-12-2010, 21:19
Early on, mostly spam green towers to get your maze and killzone going. Except missiles, only fill more of those when you see air coming. Then rush the reds and put temporals up.

All missile lvl 1;
Concussion, Command, Tesla lvl 3;
Upgrade cannons and guns sparingly - so most guns in the kill zone will be reds, some yellow, all cannons yellow, entry guns stay green;
Temporals could stay green, I upgraded them to yellow but only the east one really benefits from it. You might as well get just upgrade the right one to red and put a gun on the left one, instead.

79K on my first run to beat your 71k/70k, I didn't do it exactly like this (my tesla was poorly placed and I had 2 dead cannons on the back of the bottom island) so you can improve upon me. I had to use the orbital laser once to clear a swarmer mass that met fast runners on their way back.

ProPain
19-12-2010, 21:24
Took a break from master strategist and ran Lockdown another time, 85044.

I have an idea to improve on that, so I;m gonna give it one more go

ProPain
19-12-2010, 22:43
got 91134 now, back to master strategist

Beorn
19-12-2010, 23:07
I have an idea to improve on that
Which is?

Btw I retried that plan on story challenge: 78k (so basically the same score, but on challenge); the first 4 guns stay green, maze and 90% of the towers are up and all green by lvl 11, then 3 red guns, red command, red temporal and red concussion, in that order. Quite a few cores juggled, so I guess I need more firepower somehow, that would have improved my score a lot. Perhaps an early well-placed red laser would do it.

ProPain
21-12-2010, 00:23
@beorn, I'll post my setup later on, it's different cause I only build up the first " platform (upper left so to speak). I build up half of the second platform (where your green dot is on).

This saves a lot of investment in towers (saves 25% of tower cost), which generates interest.

Also set a new high score on focal point grinder 2107570 points (no 14 on leaderboard). There's still a bit of room for improvement in my strategy so a higher score should be possible.

Rik Meleet
21-12-2010, 02:38
I've got an amazing score on "Last Stand - Grinder". And I'm sure I can do even better.

Rik Meleet
21-12-2010, 13:58
I've got an amazing score on "Last Stand - Grinder". And I'm sure I can do even better.Improved again to 1712432; rank 101. I still can get a higher score by not pressing "f" too much and upgrading more economically instead of just a whole section at once.

ProPain
21-12-2010, 16:24
last stand grinder : 2454120, rank 32 :D

Rik Meleet
21-12-2010, 17:10
last stand grinder : 2454120, rank 32 :DI saw it http://smileys.emoticonsonly.com/emoticons/c/clapping-1303.gif

How did you do that? I do think I can improve my score, but not to the level of yours ...
You build 132 towers, vs my 29.

ProPain
21-12-2010, 17:29
All my grinder scores are done by oscilating/ping-ponging (looking for a good term here) the aliens.

Basically I build a 2 exit maze with a kill zone somewhere close to the middle. Then I alternatively open and close the exits making the aliens go back and forth while being roasted in the kill zone.

So I build a huge amount of towers but those are mostly green guntowers that are used to block and entrance and then sold again. If I build 132 towers in the last game I'd say that's 100 towers used for oscilating or placeholding the maze in the beginning.

Still 100 guns * 25 (100 to build, 75 when sold) = 2500 points. Obviously minimal compared to building 5 more fully upgraded towers.

On Last stand I got my score without a lot of tweaking. Basically I went with the 1st run that managed to kill the 1st few waves, which I find the hardest on this map. I have some ideas for this map that I wanna try but that won't be today.

On focal point I have a setup that's pretty well balanced methinks. Still some minor improvements possible, but those won't affect score that much I expect.

How the top leaders get their insane scores is beyond me. I think they somehow cheat, and the steam forums seem to agree on that, I mean 140 million on Focal Point Grinder: I'm pretty sure you won't get that score even when you manage to kill all waves with a single guntower. :)

Rik Meleet
21-12-2010, 17:32
I figured that much out; 132 towers build with room for 109 towers means selling them.
On other fora for towerdefense games they call it "juggling" (jongleren).

In my game I sold only 1 tower, and that was due to a misclick.

Beorn
21-12-2010, 18:08
There are cheat codes (idk if they're console-style like fallout but I saw them somewhere on a forum) and if you use them you don't get rank/achievements. However, if you use them, quit, and use the Continue mission feature, you're cleared of "wrongdoing" and can keep going with your 100 lvl 3 meteors maze and 2000 000 stash of cash. That's how they do it. So on most missions, you can only hope for 15-20 to be the real actual top score.

I haven't done juggling yet, I think I'll try it on Veil of ice grinder later today, that's where I'm at (and get firebug in the mean time, juggling with all infernos should work, no?). I totally rocked the 10 towers challenge with #35, too :p

ProPain
21-12-2010, 20:18
There are cheat codes (idk if they're console-style like fallout but I saw them somewhere on a forum) and if you use them you don't get rank/achievements. However, if you use them, quit, and use the Continue mission feature, you're cleared of "wrongdoing" and can keep going with your 100 lvl 3 meteors maze and 2000 000 stash of cash. That's how they do it. So on most missions, you can only hope for 15-20 to be the real actual top score.


So that's how it's done. That explains. Makes me even more happy with my focal point no 14 spot.


I haven't done juggling yet, I think I'll try it on Veil of ice grinder later today, that's where I'm at (and get firebug in the mean time, juggling with all infernos should work, no?). I totally rocked the 10 towers challenge with #35, too :p

Juggling with inferno's wil work but is slightly more expensive than with guns (37.5 costs per inferno vs 25 for guns). So you will know in advance that your score isn't optimal. I;d like to warn you as well that I had some trouble with firebug registering, I had to do it 3 times before I got the achievement, So I advise you to go for firebug in a quicker challenge to avoid frustration.

Rik Meleet
21-12-2010, 21:45
Tried to Juggle in the last stand grinder, but since the groups come with too much time apart I've ended up with many smaller groups in the tunnels instead of 1 huge juggable group. So I had to upgrade many many towers and basically not juggle too much.

This is how I tried it:

Where did it go wrong ?

Edit: and I lose a lot of money due to my cores being juggled instead of giving me interest and creeps leaving the maze after reaching the core-centre without dying.

ProPain
21-12-2010, 22:20
You don't really need such a long maze. I only used the top square and on the top square I used the S and E platforms as my killzone.

What makes your maze really hard to juggle with is the proximity of your entrance to the cores.

What I did was:
- White line: outer track to E platform
- Green line: outer track to E platform
- Purple line
* from E to N (core platform) close N so they make a U turn to the innner track
* N to E inner track
* E to S inner track
* S to W inner track

Western Platform.
I used the W platform to juggle
- close of W in N-W direction (between outer & inner track)
- close of W in S-W direction (again between inner and outer track)
-once units pass S platform on inner track: sell tower blocking W-N passage, outer track
- build tower on N platform blocking inner track to core.
--> this will cause all units to turn around and backtrack so they can enter the W-N outer track. Beware though that fresh waves reach this new entrance quicker than those already in the maze.
- Immediately when Tower on N (inner track blocker) is done: sell it
- When selling is done: rebuild W-N blocker
--> all units turn around again

Rinse and repeat

Rik Meleet
21-12-2010, 23:06
You don't really need such a long maze. I only used the top square and on the top square I used the S and E platforms as my killzone.

What makes your maze really hard to juggle with is the proximity of your entrance to the cores.

What I did was:
- White line: outer track to E platform
- Green line: outer track to E platform
- Purple line
* from E to N (core platform) close N so they make a U turn to the innner track
* N to E inner track
* E to S inner track
* S to W inner track

Western Platform.
I used the W platform to juggle
- close of W in N-W direction (between outer & inner track)
- close of W in S-W direction (again between inner and outer track)
-once units pass S platform on inner track: sell tower blocking W-N passage, outer track
- build tower on N platform blocking inner track to core.
--> this will cause all units to turn around and backtrack so they can enter the W-N outer track. Beware though that fresh waves reach this new entrance quicker than those already in the maze.
- Immediately when Tower on N (inner track blocker) is done: sell it
- When selling is done: rebuild W-N blocker
--> all units turn around again

Rinse and repeat

so, this:

Beorn
21-12-2010, 23:09
I had to do the cannon towers twice too, but cannons are so good on green-only that it wasn't a hassle. Firebug just might be, though.

Glad I caught rik's message on the reply preview, I was about to do it myself all over ;)

Edit: I think he meant this

ProPain
23-12-2010, 22:58
Beorn's one is essentially what I did. I'll give MS paint a spin and make an exact pic.

Meanwhile I did focal point again and managed to get 2265454 points, rank 11.

Made a few tiny mistakes, so a few thousand more should be possible when doing a perfect run of this strat. Will draw that one out as well.

Also I firmly believe that scores ranked 1 to 8 aren't possible without cheating. I made some calculations what interest can be gained and these scores are impossible. So for me I translate rank 11 equals rank 3 :)

ProPain
23-12-2010, 23:24
the promised pics

Also I now never upgrade damage dealing towers above yellow. Different for temporal and command. Command needs to go red asap, temporal is best at red because it makes the killzones slower compared to non killzone pathing. This basically creates a trap in the killzone which makes juggling easier and deals more damage

Darkness
24-12-2010, 00:26
I just scored 18.4 million on Center of Power Super Grinder. I actually had to use the orbital laser twice to save my own skin... :(

ProPain
24-12-2010, 00:40
scored 2345909 on focal point grinder, still rank 11 though.

Cut out the 2 superfluous guns on the lower middle platform and didnt build the green inferno but I'm still about 300K short to get a top 10 rank. That's just too much to tweak with this setup. Gotta come up with another solution I think.

Rik Meleet
24-12-2010, 13:31
scored 2345909 on focal point grinder, still rank 11 though.

Cut out the 2 superfluous guns on the lower middle platform and didnt build the green inferno but I'm still about 300K short to get a top 10 rank. That's just too much to tweak with this setup. Gotta come up with another solution I think.You need a command tower red in your kill-zone.

I started thinking about juggling-strategies and I've concluded that the best juggle-maze has the entry point of new creeps perfectly in the middle of the maze. That way the longest distance between "old" creeps and "new" creeps cannot be longer than half a maze-length; long enough to juggle safely without creeps escaping or the danger of you selling a tower in front of a group of creeps.

ProPain
24-12-2010, 20:22
You need a command tower red in your kill-zone.

I started thinking about juggling-strategies and I've concluded that the best juggle-maze has the entry point of new creeps perfectly in the middle of the maze. That way the longest distance between "old" creeps and "new" creeps cannot be longer than half a maze-length; long enough to juggle safely without creeps escaping or the danger of you selling a tower in front of a group of creeps.

- focal point doesn't command towers. Otherwise I'd built one :)

- I believe having the entry point slightly out of the middle, towards your kill zone is best. Reason for this is that simply removing the tower blocking the shorter path will have mobs turn around towards your killzone. Having it perfectly in the middle will always force you to build a blocking tower on the non killzone end to have your mobs turn.

My first juggle attempt on focal point I even extended my left (non killzone) path so that I would have more 'turn around' space. Saves an extra tower on each wave. As green guns are only 100 and are get you 75% in the end score, they basically cost only one juggle tower when not taking interest into account. Ofc interest really adds up over time. but if you can save 2-3 juggle tower builds with one gun tower it might just pay out in the end.

Shabbaman
25-12-2010, 13:32
the promised pics

Also I now never upgrade damage dealing towers above yellow. Different for temporal and command. Command needs to go red asap, temporal is best at red because it makes the killzones slower compared to non killzone pathing. This basically creates a trap in the killzone which makes juggling easier and deals more damage

Aren't there any fliers?

ProPain
25-12-2010, 18:13
The grinder levels are swarmers only. I've read somewhere the Big Grinder levels do have dif units, but havent tried them yet.

Darkness
26-12-2010, 14:00
The grinder levels are swarmers only. I've read somewhere the Big Grinder levels do have dif units, but havent tried them yet.

Super grinders have everything except flyers.

Rik Meleet
27-12-2010, 12:59
It just dawned on me; how to get a really high score. As high as you want.
Build a maze; kill the first 98 waves juggling and then replace your kill-towers by non-kill towers like temporal. Juggle for 24 hours (or 100 hours if you want to) and collect all that interest.

barbu1977
27-12-2010, 15:08
From: http://defensegrid.hiddenpath.com/node/722

"When you play some maps on xbox 360 the interest will keep going for 2 minutes after the last wave, so you have to juggle the last few mobs to get the full interest, it's the difference between 110k and 150k which is huge. "

It seems to be also the case with the PC version

Shabbaman
27-12-2010, 15:38
Juggle for 24 hours (or 100 hours if you want to) and collect all that interest.

Sounds like a fun game!

ProPain
27-12-2010, 17:36
It just dawned on me; how to get a really high score. As high as you want.
Build a maze; kill the first 98 waves juggling and then replace your kill-towers by non-kill towers like temporal. Juggle for 24 hours (or 100 hours if you want to) and collect all that interest.

That won't work as interest stops when the last wave has hit the field.

And as I don't believe everything the makers tell me, I also tested this a few weeks ago (but not on a grinder map, took a shorter one :) ) and I juggles using temporals. No interest after last wave.

PC version doesn't have interest for 2 mins after last wave. My grinder attempts only added kills way before 2 mins had passed. And at 2M + scores it's really easy to see the difference between interest increase or the 20G per swarmer.

Rik Meleet
27-12-2010, 20:09
True; it doesn't work.

Rik Meleet
28-12-2010, 20:13
the promised pics

Also I now never upgrade damage dealing towers above yellow. Different for temporal and command. Command needs to go red asap, temporal is best at red because it makes the killzones slower compared to non killzone pathing. This basically creates a trap in the killzone which makes juggling easier and deals more damageI beat your score with about 30k.

I only build 2 green guntowers on the East platform and I kept my 4 concussiontowers on the south platform green. The temporal, command and inferno tower were red. And I increased the length of the path in the west slightly.

Dark blue: green guntower
Light blue: juggle guntower
Yellow: red inferno tower
White: green concussion tower
Red: Red command tower
Green: red Temporal tower

Beorn
28-12-2010, 21:37
2 quick realizations:

1. Concussion towers don't deal damage at random, they deal steady dps in their aoe. This is particularly useful when dealing with red shields since hitting any shield will hurt the shield cover equally. Every other map I'll start with green laser + green concussions instead of the cookie cutter mass guns - because it works evenly.

2. Inferno towers are best used when aligned with their outgoing lane. If you drop the yellow dot to the spot directly south from it, it will never have to move when changing targets, always keeps firing in a straight horz/vert line away from it. Doesn't work quite as well against yellow decoys though unless you have a command to reveal the hidden pack.

Beorn
28-12-2010, 22:59
Btw I tried that build on Story mode and nearly hit 100K (I did upgrade a lot more towers too, to make juggling less of a bore). I easily could have done 150K if I had had the patience you did.

ProPain
29-12-2010, 00:04
improved last stand grinder to 2694843. Due to a mistake I lost 2 cores in the last wave so that cost me 4K points but I couldn't be bothered to rerun the last 10 waves.

Basically I adopted Rik's 1 killzone model but kept the meteor from my setup and kept a shorter path in the west part of the map. Also skipped the 2 concussion towers on the S platform that weren't part of the maze. I did however upgrade all concussion to yellow.

I'm convinced that you need yellow towers in your damage zone.

1 yellow equals 3 green towers.
yellow conc upgrade = 550, at 75% resell this costs you: 137,5
juggling costs something between 1 or 2 towers depending if you need to build a 2nd blocking tower to force a turn around. I think you need to do this more often than not so 1 juggle is close to 2 * 100 * 25% = 50 gold

basically 137,5/50= <3
cheaper to upgrade than to have 3 more juggles. You'll have 3 more juggles at least on your last wave, but as you have to start juggling sooneer I think your lucky if you get away with 10 extra juggles.

10 juggles = 500 gold which is close to 4 conc yellow upgrades.

Also there's the interest issue.
UPgrading a tower means losing interest on the 550 gold per tower. This will actually add up quite a bit, but is partly offset by killing mobs sooner which gives you more interest than a slower kill.

I did some calculations and killing quicker in the early waves does really add up. Killing the first wave 1 interest tick earlier wil add up to 575 extra gold over the entire grinder run. getting 2 interest ticks extra on that 1st wave will get you about 1150 gold.

Even though waves get bigger in the late game, interest obviously becomes less of an issue. Getting 1 extra interest tick on the much bigger 50th wave will amount to about 36 gold extra. Not worth upgrading for.

Fiddling around with the tower upgrades might be worth it. I'll try some more runs later and keep you posted.

Rik Meleet
29-12-2010, 00:29
PP: good score.

I knew skipping the 2 non-maze concussion towers would increase the score. Why did you shorten the West - it leads to more jugling thus higher cost ?

Do you sell your towers at the end ?

I think interest is more than 550; because you also get interest over the interest.

ProPain
29-12-2010, 00:49
PP: good score.

I knew skipping the 2 non-maze concussion towers would increase the score. Why did you shorten the West - it leads to more jugling thus higher cost ?

saves 4 towers = 16 juggles. Also I build 1 less tower on the west platform and 1 less on the north one. They don't do anything for the maze length though, so no juggle impact.


Do you sell your towers at the end ?
No I don't cause you get no interest anyway after the last wave is on screen.

I think interest is more than 550; because you also get interest over the interest.

I don't quite get this last remark. 550 is conc tower upgrade cost, which will earn interest when not build 575 is the amount of cumulative interest of killing the 1st wave one interest tick earlier.

550 is the cost of a conc tower upgrade to yellow. Lost interest on that will be about 29K if you build it around wave 20. Now this isn't entirely fair as you'll save some juggles plus the interest on those juggles. I'm guessing a lvl 20 upgrade is worth 20K in lost interest. Question is if killing mobs sooner will make up for that.

At least you can say that late upgrades become increasingly less interesting as you need quite a lot of earlier mobs killed to make up for the investment.

Furiey
08-04-2011, 03:29
There's a new map appeared as part of the potato bundle promotion.

ProPain
08-04-2011, 09:29
Totally missed that, thanks for the heads up.

Shabbaman
08-04-2011, 10:11
Did you know the potato bundle is some massive joke by Valve?

ProPain
08-04-2011, 11:05
Read something about a puzzle hidden in it. Not quite sure what the joke is though. It seems the 75% sale is for real.

Darkness
15-06-2011, 10:19
I just got the "master strategist" achievement. :)

Some pretty big challenges among those 80-something gold medals. Especially the green tower only challenges. Also, I just can't seem to get the Last Stand super grinder gold without using the orbital laser on the wave 21 racers. I can kill everything else, but that wave gets through every time... :(

ProPain
17-06-2011, 14:30
Congratulations!!!! You've worked pretty hard for it I saw the last few weeks.

Darkness
17-06-2011, 22:48
Some levels take quite a bit of time, especially the grinder levels...

Furiey
02-07-2011, 23:38
If anyone hasn't got the map packs for this game, all 4 are free for 3 tickets in the summer camp sale. 3 tickets can easily be got by: joining the summer camp group, connecting with your facebook profile (disconnect afterwards if you don't want to be connected) and posting a comment on a friend's profile.

Darkness
13-07-2011, 10:15
I've got all the achievements now. :)
Some were pretty difficult actually. CHAS on impossible took me a lot of time to get, and the levels with aa limited number of towers are also quite difficult...

I need about 15 more gold medals to have a gold medal on every challenge on every map... :)

barbu1977
13-07-2011, 18:49
Impressive!

I stopped playing the game after I finished the single player campain!

grahamiam
11-12-2011, 03:34
Defense Grid: You Monster expansion out on Steam. Adds Portal's GLaDOS to the game. 8 new maps with 35 missions, sounds like a decent deal.

Shabbaman
11-12-2011, 18:14
I'm not really into this whole portal thing (puzzlers are boring), and I can't figure out why some new maps need to be this expensive. But on the other hand: yay defense grid!

socralynnek
12-12-2011, 09:39
I get to play only little, but fired the game up again in the last few weeks.

But I haven't finished "The Awakening" campaign, so I guess, I don't need new maps right now...

Darkness
22-12-2011, 09:12
There are also new challenges on the old maps available. Some, like the "Adrenaline" challenges (sort of like a supergrinder with fewer levels but increased movement speed for aliens) are pretty difficult...

Furiey
22-12-2011, 12:03
You monster DLC for 99p in the sale. The other maps are on sale too.

socralynnek
22-12-2011, 14:45
Sounds good. Might be the first time I spend money on Steam.

Darkness
29-01-2012, 23:55
So, you guys/girls reckon that getting all achievements and gold medals on all challenges is a sign I've been playing Defense Grid too much? ;) :D

socralynnek
29-01-2012, 23:58
I think, I played too little. Hey, at least I saw my name above yours in at least some challenges...

barbu1977
30-01-2012, 04:52
Way too much!

Darkness
30-01-2012, 09:32
I think, I played too little. Hey, at least I saw my name above yours in at least some challenges...

So did I, but I reckon I am about done with DG, so I won't be trying to beat your scores. It's a really great game, but I've played it enough I think...

Some challenges are really difficult though. The adrenaline challenge on Guardians fall was really difficult for me. It took me quite a few tries to get past wave 48, with those damn racers, as guardians fall really has a very limited number of tower positions close to the path along which the aliens travel and I tend to prefer gun/concussion towers, so I really had to change to something more long distance (meteors, with a few cannons).

ProPain
11-02-2012, 19:04
OK, I need help with the 1st resurgence mission (service interruption) on hard campaign. Some frigging bots slips by every time before I reach round 10

Darkness
11-02-2012, 20:36
Can't get those stupid screen shots to work... :(

What I have just before the seekers release all those racers:
On the north east platform: Yellow missile and green meteor
Southwest corner (main kill zone): 4 red gun towers (one of the red towers is on the small ridge just N of the rest (which are all as far SW as possible), 1 yellow gun tower, yellow temporal and red command towe.

That should get wave 10 fairly easily....

ProPain
12-02-2012, 12:13
You blocked the 'south route' I presume?

Darkness
12-02-2012, 15:08
You blocked the 'south route' I presume?

No, I left it open. I only used the six southernmost spots of the nine available on that platform (4 guns, 1 temporal and 1 command), and then 1 more gun on the second available spot on the slightly higher "ridge" directly adjacent to this platform (the first available spot will become a concussion tower later).

ProPain
12-02-2012, 16:33
ok, so you used that as your killzone? Cause I was trying that but around wave 6 I get one that slips thru every time.

DO you remember your buildorder?

Darkness
12-02-2012, 16:41
I built the meteor first, and then 4 guns (yellow), upgrade until 2 are red. Command and the fifth gun (yellow) are next, then upgrade 2 more guns from yellow to red and then missile and temporal

ProPain
12-02-2012, 17:15
Squeezed out a gold, didnt match your score. Started with command and 3 guns, upgraded guns to yellow and added a meteor in there somewhere.

Built the missile turret really late, only upgraded that to yellow just for the last airwave. Red guns take care of most air as well.

ProPain
12-02-2012, 17:25
reversed campaign, piece of cake. gold 1st try

Furiey
06-05-2012, 00:19
For tower defence fans Sanctum is free to play on Steam this weekend. Tower defence and you get to play first person once you've set up your towers so you can reinforce where needed. It also has 4 person co-op. Cheap to buy too at the moment.

ProPain
06-05-2012, 02:24
Is it similar to Orcs must die/Dungeons Defenders?

Furiey
06-05-2012, 04:46
Not played those so can't comment.