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View Full Version : KingReno vs ProPain 2 *spoiler*


ProPain
25-06-2003, 00:28
started a new spoiler thread because the other has the potential to become a spam fight between me and KR.Wouldnt nip that opportunity in the but :D

Here's my start:

http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/ProPain/200362423272_KRvsPP_start1_no3.jpg
27.35*KB

I started by moving my worker on the cow, and that revealed anoher cow NW of the visible one. So I moved my settler NW too. I get the two cows immediately and lose a desert square in favor of a grassland one.

I'm a little worried with my start. I've got a good start so KR should have an equally good one. Knowing he's playing Shaka, my guess is he's going for the early offensive. Not in my advantage with the chinese especially against KR. The man's an avid gamer and has been the world nr 1 at 7 kingdoms for quite some time iirc.

That leaves the psych war option open and judging the open thread KR alrdy started that too. KR and I know each other IRL so both game and psych war should be interesting [lol]

ProPain
19-09-2003, 00:07
We're now at turn 16 (3300BC)!!! but speed is picking up. I just met my very closeby neighbours: the koreans. Wan Kong turned out to be an ok chap, he was willing to trade 2 workers for masonry and 6 gold! I figured I'd be better of with those workers than with the alternative: masonry for BW and 10 gold. Hopefully this deal will slow down Wan Kongs expansion, because he's awfully close.

Here's a screenie

http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/ProPain/200391823657_kr_3300bc.jpg
168.23*KB

Skyfish
19-09-2003, 00:36
damn thats close...
good luck :D
good deal btw...
Reference to another game : Edited because of spoiler info in a running game [crazyeye]

ProPain
19-09-2003, 12:22
I read about your masonry for worker deal, and there are some amazing similarities. Masonry being the tech involved, we both playing industrious civs. Also Ai has almost the same techs and presumably no contacts.

Maybe the ai takes the industrious trait into account when trading and somehow thinks workers are worth less to an industrious civ. Because normally 2 workers would cost me 200-250 gold, and I never, ever got offered that amount of money for a level 1 tech.

Skyfish
19-09-2003, 15:44
My deal was for ONE worker, you got TWO : thats a huge difference !!!!!

ProPain
19-09-2003, 16:21
:) I know. But did your AI have two workers to offer or just one.

Skyfish
19-09-2003, 22:04
Well they would not offer BW on top even though I could buy it for a few gold.... ;)

ProPain
13-10-2003, 20:38
It turns out to be a barb infested world. After a few turns I lose one of my shiny new slave workers to an unexpected barb appearance. Tragically nothing can be done because of the crazy upkeep sequence for finished labour.

In the meanwhile my neighbours keep expanding and I'm thinking early war is in evitable. I dont mind the yellow danger as long as it's chinese and not korean, so containment of Wan Kong is necessary.

Strat: build 1 st ring (ring might be a bit enthusiatically put for the 3 normal cities I can build here[crazyeye]), amass some troops, take a city, extort for all techs/money/cities possible



http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/ProPain/20031013193748_reno_2850bc_empire.jpg
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ProPain
24-10-2003, 11:04
Off course I cant lose this game with an empire shaped like a steath bomber [lol]

2390 bc
http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/ProPain/2003102410359_reno_2390bc_empire.jpg
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Skyfish
24-10-2003, 11:10
He's mining a cow in Canton! [dance]
[lol]














ps : dont say why, i know it, its just a joke ;)

Lt. Killer M
24-10-2003, 11:10
[lol]

I like the way Korea expands - if you can keep them from settling northwest of P'yongyang you will have a nice route into their core. Strike at P'yong, then advance on Seoul.....

shitty core for you though, water and desert :(

digger760
24-10-2003, 11:10
[rotfl]
First the fish of death..now this...some people are very observant[crazyeye].

But is it attacking or flying away???

Lt. Killer M
24-10-2003, 11:23
look where the bombs would fall......

ProPain
04-11-2003, 23:09
and here's the 2030BC update.

The glorious Chinese beat the crappy Koreans to the spot!
http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/ProPain/200311422022_reno_2030bc_settle.jpg
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Our end of the world as we know it (and we feel fine)
http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/ProPain/2003114215830_reno_2030bc_world.jpg
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The score we need to settle.
Apparently those Koreans aren't so crappy after all....:(
http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/ProPain/200311422126_reno_2030bc_score.jpg
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The Famous F11 stats, not too shabby
http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/ProPain/20031142226_reno_2030bc_sf11.jpg
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Well the koreans apparently lead the score, but with a size 6 capital that's the leading city of the world I'm not surprised. Lucky for me their empire is stretched and can access theri core quite easily, also they havent met any other civ afaik because they still lack mysticism. I can only hope everyone is as isolated as we are. If not:major shit on the tech front.

startegy: maybe grab a bit of the eastern free land. Trade mysticism for the wheel.

IF territory=horses THEN build chariots, upgrade to horsemen, attack korean core
ELSE cry, do what it takes to get Iron working and go swordsmen route

Of course there's the possibility of no iron, no horsies. That will mean cursing and crying and the ever so wastefull archer attack. Let's just hope it won't get that far.

ProPain
12-12-2003, 00:15
The 1200 bc situation

http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/ProPain/2003121123915_reno_1200bc_empire.jpg
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Managed to get fair piece of land and have a nice clear way to some major Korean cities. I have horses (star) and Korea has iron (other star) I have 10 chariots waiting for upgrade. HBR in 5 turns. Korea is Hbr and writing on me. I'd rather have writing before I attack Wan Kong, better extort ops, but I think I wont manage that.

Pusan will for sure be a target in my first attack. Still in doubt if I should go for Pyongyang or straight for seoul with 2nd stack. Probably Pyongyang as Seoul is building pyramids. I want those, so Korea needs to finish first. When Seoul is still working on those when war starts thats an advantage because the AI wont abandon their wonder build.

Skyfish
12-12-2003, 08:27
Make sure you investigate Seoul or open an Embassy before you attack so that you know when/if they can finish the Pyramids.

ProPain
12-12-2003, 11:59
breaking news

The turn after last update I have contact with the greeks! They in turn have contact with the zulus (KingReno). I trade Poly, WM and 42 gold for contact with zulus and writing. Greeks build pyramids.

KingReno lacks writing, IW and poly. I try to trade with KR but claims he has no money and no techs. The last part I believe. I sent back the turn

The foul zulus, use their cash to buy writing from the Greeks and get an embassy with korea. They declare war on me and ally the koreans in it [eek]

Lucky for me I was preparing for war with korea anyway. I quickly get hbr from the greeks for 2 gpt iirc and start the WC upgrade. FIrst few turns of the war are very quiet. I send a scouting warrior into Korean territory where he wins 2 battles against unknown units in the interturn. After 3 turns the first units show up at my border. 2 spears in the south-west and archer/warrior in NE.

The war with korea broke my deal with Wan kong, so he no longer receives 7gpt and ivory from me. I'm on 24 gpt and upgrading a WC per turn. building 1 horsie per turn too. Start sending a spear towards Pusan Iron. I can probably pillage that and that means korea wont have iron or horses. I think I can manage spears and archers.

ProPain
19-01-2004, 11:18
The War continues

After a break from the game irl we continued yesterday.
My pillage action on Pusan failed I can road a tile between CHengdu and Pusan and reach it in one turn from Chengdu. Raze Uslan, fend off a bunch of swords from Xinjian. Take Pusan, Raze Hyangsang, take Pyongyang, raze it after a few turns when the sole survivor keeps resisting, to close to Seoul and I dont wanna risk a flip. Resettle it. Take Nampo, get a leader. Save it for FP, rush a settler in shanghai for FP city

In 610 BC I get mono on literature. Sell it with 10 gpt to greeks for peace CoL, maths. Sell Maths, lit, 90 gold to romans for WM and MapM. KingReni is huge. Settle FP city and rush FP. Get an embassy with the greeks and pay the greeks 21 gpt for an alliance against the zulus

Some pics.


http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/ProPain/2004119101443_myempire610bc.jpg
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My empire, the arrow indicates the Indians, will contact the, soon now I have mapmaking. Switched a prebuild to galley.
Short term strat: get all korean cities on my island, they lack horses and iron so that wont be a problem. Wan kong has 1100+ gold so I hope to get that from him before he spends it on other stuff


http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/ProPain/2004119101635_reno610bc.jpg
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KingReno's empire. He's HUGE but he doesnt have iron. I paid the greeks for war. Greeks compare strong to me in F3, Reno compares average to me. My guess is Reno build a lot of impis and horses. I hope this war will trigger his GA and will waste it in despotisme.

http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/ProPain/2004119101836_athens610bc.jpg
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ProPain
19-01-2004, 11:57
I meet the indians and they have contact with germans and ottos. Very good

trade poly + contacts
trade poly, WM, 5 gold to ottos for construction
Get 347 gold, WM, from germans for poly and lit
trade constr to greece for currency 171 gold and 18 gpt, hello MA!

Gift all lacking Ancient age techs to greece, ottos and germans. I';m hoping a good deal with free techs is possible. All draw monotheism [aargh]. BUy mono from germans for WM and 660 gold. Sell construction to Romans for 147 gold and WM (allthey have) This way everyone that Kreno can trade with has the same techs. Forget to sell lit to indians fot their remaining 50 gold or so [cry]. I'm up construction, currenct and mono on reno now. I hope he's pissed that I manage to get 6 techs in 2 turns.

Here's a screenie of the new lands


http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/ProPain/2004119105626_indiansea590bc.jpg
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ProPain
19-01-2004, 16:19
A few recent developments.

- I ally the Romans to prevent them doing deals with the Zulus. Give mono for it, get 97 gold+WM in the deal.
- Indians build great lighthouse. This means they can now reach the Romans withour risk. I decide to sell contacts around and get 900 gold for them. Mainly the gold I paid the germans for Monotheism.
- Set research to max on republic. 16 turns at -25 gpt iirc. I can easily spare the money as I dont need any upgrades now and I can't rushbuy anything in despotism anyway.
- I take Wonsan. (already taken Seoul too) I now have a harbor and trade furs +2gpt for 1 incense with India
- Kingreno allies the Ottos against me. Whatever he fancies. This must cost him and I have done only deals for cash not gpt. Exception being the greeks but as they get money from me and not other way around that wouldn't be a problem also.
- Zulus raze Ephesus.

Apparently something interesting is happening in Zululand as KR's spoiler attracts a lot of replies. I fear it cant be bad as he just razed a Greek city. I only hope he gets a GA in despotism.

Lt. Killer M
19-01-2004, 16:44
wow!


this looks like dream development (though i ahven#t seen KRs spoiler)

col
19-01-2004, 17:24
I'm reading both - and its a good game ;)

ProPain
20-01-2004, 00:21
The Treacherous Greeks
The Greeks make peace with KR and somehow give KR currency&constr for it. I suspect a gpt deal. Alex is willing to send me 3 gpt for some cash but his breaking up of the alliance cost him 21 gpt. It suggest KR is paying (24 gpt?) for those techs. I decide to not redeclare war and let him have those techs for cheap, he;s gonna pay the 20 turns or ruin his rep.

Follow the leader

Turn 109 (370bc iirc) sees the following

http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/ProPain/2004119231615_leader2.jpg
80.52KB

Building an army is quite useless as I need to get my military of the island soon. So it's either the Great-Lib or tuck it away. Decide for great lib. Everyone is about tech par and I;m on the verge of republic (8 turns) so other will be to. MOve leader to city, in turn 110 I rush GLi.

Attack with another elite:D:D[eek][eek][cool]


http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/ProPain/2004119232116_leader3.jpg
74.37KB

ProPain
20-01-2004, 10:00
breaking news: Glorious Chinese build great library

After a many years of war and a lot of battles against the perfidous Koreans finally a great leader rose from the battlefield. The overjoyous Chinese people celebrated this moment to create a true wonder of the world, The Great Library. For the short future we will gain all techs for free as we shold after our immense effort to cull strong Koreans. Our well known reporter TinTin sent us the following postcard.




http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/ProPain/200411923278_grlib.jpg



The great conspiracy
For unknown reasons to me all the AI are ganging up on me. First the Ottomans joined the war against me, shortly followed by the Germans and last turn even the Greeks joined the war. Backstabbing bastards.
I do suspect it's the AI buying in each other as I don't think KR would spend his cash on a weak civs on other islands to go to war with me. From a military viewpoint I'm not worried at all, from a trading viewpoint it might become a problem. I'm just really glad I build the G-lib so now I dont have to worry of falling behind in tech.

I trade 2 luxes with the Indians so I dont think they'll join the war antytime soon. I also started giving the Romans 1 gpt to keep em happy.

short term strategy
I;m in anarchy as the great lib came online as ottos and gerries invented the republic. Good thing I still had 8 turns to go on my own. I drew 8 turn anarachy. Everybody is republic bnow except KingReno which makes me think he is in his GA for sure. Good.

I'll be concentrating on building up cash and building some spears and a lot of horsies and a some galleys. I'll use the 3rd leader to rush Leo's and then I'll use my cash to mass upgrade horsemen to riders. Don't know who to attack yet, I guess I have 3 options.

Northern Island Option
Get a RoP with the Indians, ferry over the riders, kill germans, ottos and finally Indians.
Pro: small civs, easy to conquer, they're close so it's easy. Might jump palace to here too and get a nice 2nd core
Con: KR will have time to clean his island

Greek Option
ferry troops. Kill the greeks
Pro: close, will box in KR
Con: KR wont take this without a fight

Zulu option
Make peace & RoP with greeks, ferry troops. Attack zulus from greece.
Pro: bringing war to other player usually gives you an advantage
con: need peace with greeks, need to be sure that my military will be large enough.

I'll decide when my battle force is ready

Skyfish
20-01-2004, 13:08
I would really not advise any of the first 2 options....but you know my play style [evil]
[mwaha]

ERIKK
20-01-2004, 14:11
That would make you a really cool guy. ;)

ProPain
21-01-2004, 14:46
Foul Zulus launch attack on China

After declaring war for no apparent reason years ago, now the evil zulus have launched an attack on China!!!

What happened
Now this is BAD news. Beijing had a spear and 2 horses garrisoned an that was it. 7 impis and 3 horses landed. I mustered all the troops I could find toward my capital and praised my luck for getting feudalism last turn. Upgraded my spear to pike, and sent back the turn expecting to lose Beijing ans seeing it razed. End of turn screenie down here.

http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/ProPain/200412113307_bigshitattack1.jpg
254.1KB

And this is what I got back::D[cool]
http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/ProPain/2004121133356_bigshitattack2.jpg
216.98KB

The pikeman scared KingReno so he sticked with pillaging. PHEW! I launch an attack on the stack in the red circle, kill 1 impi, 2 horses lose nothing. Attack blue circle, lose 2 horses, wound 2 impis.
Upgrade 5 swords to Med Inf

Send turn, receive turn:

http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/ProPain/2004121133531_bigshitattack3.jpg
142.63KB

Well not too bad. lots of attacking I lose reg med inf and a 4hp elite horseman. KR loses 2 elite impis, 3 vet impis, 1 vet horse.

This is what's left

http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/ProPain/2004121133954_bigshitattack4.jpg
108.38KB

Send and receive this:
http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/ProPain/200412113431_bigshitattack5.jpg
83.37KB

I kinda expected this to happen and it's far less a problem than the first attack. It's not near my core, and quite some troops from the Korean campaign are still in the area because I thought KR would land a 2nd bunch. Thinking what I'm gonna do. I have a galley near Beijing so i can ferry in 2 troops to Inc'on, not sure will think about it.

ProPain
21-01-2004, 16:44
Thought about this and came to the following assumption. I saw KR get an RoP agreement with the Greeks a while ago. I now think he used that to move his troops over land towards the sea strait and used his 5 galleys to pick em up em drop em at Paegam. It could very well be that more troops are on their way so it might be smart to drag in the greeks after all. Also 12 turns or so have passed since peace with Alex so he spent at least some gpt.

col
21-01-2004, 17:02
Its fascinating watching this one from both sides .... great game.

ProPain
23-01-2004, 13:45
Tough times in china

It took me awhile to assess the situation and act upon it.
First turn after the landing I took following action:

gifted Paegam to the Germans. They're the most powerfull AI KR is not at war with apart from the Greeks. If KR wants Paegam, he'll have to go to war with Gerries for it.
Dragged in the greeks, I suspect KR is using their territory for ferrying troops and I want that to stop. Also Greeks have feudalism and KR has not, so he'll be facing Med Inf and Hop/pikes with impis/horsemen. The attack on Beijing showed that Med Inf arent bothered by impis. All this for a mere 26 gpt :)
Decided to retreat to Cheju. I think KR will move his troops towards Inch'on next turn, I'll gift it to the Otto's then. This gives me a 2 turn window to rush rax in Cheju and upgrade 2 swords to med inf. Also I'm not going to take on those impis when they're on mountains. I think he'll move south from Inch'on the turn after and I'm ready to finish his stack
I rush some pikes in my core cities to repell an attack from the Indians in the east, if they might decide to land a few troops.

Sent turn, get turn back.

KR didnt notice the worker next to Paegam being Chinese and not German. I guess the 2 shades of blue saved my ass here. That's an unsuspected surprise. I move worker towards Cheju.

Indeed KR moved his troops towards Inch'on. I gift it to the ottomans. Upgrade swords in Cheju, disband cata in CHeju to take first shields of new med inf build and rush buy it. Next turn I guess KR will move his troops to hill W-SW of Inch'on I have 3 med inf and 8 horses ready to take em on then.

I make peace with the indians for 40 gold. It's worth it because I can trade luxes with Ghandi again. Trade 2 lux for 1 lux, 65 gold and 2 gpt. Set llux slider back to 0% and earn +20 gpt.

I check the f11 screen and there's another nice surprise!

http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/ProPain/200412312398_f11_130bc.jpg
168.68*KB

I'm no 1 in mfg goods and GNP. I have been no. 1 and no. 2 in GNP all the time, but I was 2nd and later 3rd in mfg goods for quite a while. So probably Greece and Zululand have ended their GA then. Possibly KR planned to go into anarchy now but that might be difficult now he's at war with neigbouring Greece. I'll hope and see :)

For now I'm hoping I won't see a 3rd stack show up on my eastern side because that would pose a big problem, but my guess is he can't reach me from there.

ProPain
27-01-2004, 12:47
Get turn back, chiv has been discovered!!! [cool] thank you great lib, riders and GA within reach now. Sell it to Romans and Ottos earning a meager 40 gold.

The War Zone
http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/ProPain/2004127114114_startof2ndwave.jpg
111.06*KB

the war zone looks like this. Not quite what I expected, I'd expected KR to send all his troops up hill. This is better. I have some elite horsies around, so I rush SunTzu's with my existing one and take my chances.

Second elite win gives a new leader [dance]. I started renaming my units by numbering them so I could keep count of leaders. Not smart cause KR noticed this too [wallbash]. So I told him I alrdy had 4 leaders, which is a lie and I rename this unit 'no6 Thanks Reno!!' just to piss him off when he sees it.

Battle goes well, I lose a med inf and a horse. This is what left after the battle. Notice the 1st rider on the right!!



http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/ProPain/2004127114558_endof2ndwavesmall.jpg
197.09*KB

KingReno proposed a peace treaty in his mail, I reply I'm prepared to negotiate, although I'm not sure if I want peace. I can also use his last impi to trigger my GA.... We'll see

Skyfish
27-01-2004, 15:11
Wow ! I 've just never seen so many leaders in such a short time span !
Keep it for Leos, disconnect your Iron, and go on producing Horses in your GA with 0% science [evil]
[mwaha]

ProPain
03-02-2004, 15:57
slowly progressing:

KR drew a long anarchy, he still isnt in republic, he still wants peace, I offered 30 turns but he rejected my peace offer as 'too short' and 'that way you have time to build riders and land them in greek territory'. Duh! He counters with a 60 turns peace offer so 'he can at least eradicate the greeks' I told him a straight 60 turn peace offer is out of the question, if he wants 60 turns of peace he'll have to offer something realle good. The negotiations continue and so do the turns. I'm not giving him 60 turns of peace as a rewards for screwing me over twice.

His army is average compared to mine and I have 10 horsies lined up for upgrades to riders, plenty of cash too. KR is still feuda (and chiv), theo, monarchy behind. I'm hoping my great lib will at least grant me engineering and invention before education is researched. but it's getting tricky as the AI has been ignoring engineering in favor of mono and theo..... As a back-up plan I'm researching printing press with 1 scientist, I can get it in 10 turns when i max out on research. If edu if researched before engineering and invention, I'll make a run for printing press. My guess is KR will try and buy theology and research edu asap to cancel the great lib, but he might go for chiv too. I sold theology around to prevent trade opportunities for KR when he hits republic.

For now I'm building up the former korean lands, they look promising but are underpopulated because they suffered from a mysterious famine that only struck the former korean lands.

In 1 turn beijing will produce 20 shields per turn, which equals a horsemen per turn. I will then disconnect the iron and start building heaps of horsies. I'm making 95 gpt so I can upgrade 1 horse per turn now, 2 when I get Leo's. More markterplaces are coming onlne soon. I'm aiming for 120 gpt so I can upgrade 3 horsies/turn with Leo's

This will even be better once I have my GA. My peace treaties with all the AI end in 12 turns, so I'll clean my island then and hit my GA.

anarres
03-02-2004, 16:42
A very small point: horsies are 30, so Beijing at 20 shields won't quite be 1/turn...

ProPain
04-02-2004, 10:27
[blush]Yes indeed you're right.

Got me fearing I calculated the turns I need to get my army up to 50 riders wrong. CHecked my calculations but luckily I used 30 shields there. [fdevil]

ProPain
07-04-2004, 14:28
KingReno folded as he was frustrated by his lack of leader and my abundance. I fear I only increased his agitation when I told him Beijing was virtually undefended at the time of his landing and a replay showed he would have captured it with virtuallu no losses. Sorry KR!

Apart from that I think the whole thing was going quite ok for me. I just entered my GA, had a leader ready for Leos, and a horse in place to pillage my iron and build a shitload of horses for later upgrade.

What I learned:
- Acting like nothing's the matter while you only have a vet pike defending sometimes pays off
- It's wise to have decent defense in key cities when you play a human opponent!!!!
- Lots of leaders can dramatically change the game. I think without them it would have been a sure loss.

Skyfish
07-04-2004, 14:35
Evn with the Leader luck I think you did quite well against a KR who was cruising !
I thought it was game over when he sent his forces to invade and you were 20 tiles away from your core.
It was a big mistake on his part not to attack Beijing but it was a difficult choice to make at the time...

ProPain
07-04-2004, 14:41
I thought it was game over too, but the fact that you cant see how many units are in a city apart from 1 or more than 1 and that it only shows the best defender saved my butt. Also made it a hard decision for KR for sure. Could also have been 3pikes and some swords defending Beijing as far as he was concerned. That would have meant attacking was suicide.

Beam
14-04-2005, 23:25
http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/Beam/2005414222127_az_portal_logo.gif
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Melifluous
15-04-2005, 01:50
see