View Full Version : Europa Universalis III
Bought the game ages agobut played just a little. Rebought it on Steam last week including all expansion packs because it was dirt cheap. So now I've been having a stab at it for a while and I'm sorry to say: I DON'T UNDERSTAND THE GAME AT ALL!!!
Anybody here who played the game and can explain to a noob what to do. Cause I;m getting my ass kicked here.
... I DON'T UNDERSTAND THE GAME AT ALL!!! ...
+1
It requires major effort like reading guides and fora and it poorly suitable for casual gaming. May be it is even less suitable than Civ4. I have the Rome game and tried to read the strategy guide. Got stuck at page 40 or 50 (out of total 120 or so) about a year ago. Tried to play to ease the pain of reading the guide but could not figure out how to do anything in the game. So, I quit and am not getting back anytime soon. IIRC, I also tried tutorial mode and it was even worse. There is a rather painful learning curve or so it seems.
Shabbaman
01-07-2010, 17:59
I played EU2 a bit, but that's a long time ago. Apparently the game is worth it, but it's complicated. I can't really help you unfortunately. BTW, I saw that x-com was on discount on Steam as well.
+1
It requires major effort like reading guides and fora and it poorly suitable for casual gaming. May be it is even less suitable than Civ4. I have the Rome game and tried to read the strategy guide. Got stuck at page 40 or 50 (out of total 120 or so) about a year ago. Tried to play to ease the pain of reading the guide but could not figure out how to do anything in the game. So, I quit and am not getting back anytime soon. IIRC, I also tried tutorial mode and it was even worse. There is a rather painful learning curve or so it seems.
Extremely recognisable.....
I've seen some of you bought it as well, would like to hear how you're going about.
I started new game as Castille last weekend. First few years went really well, Got the reconquista mission and conquered some North-African territories and annexed Granada. After the king died and I got the regency council. Could be me but with the inability to declare war you end up with a fast forward period in my experience. I got sort a lucky when the heir died at 8 and a new king was apppointed a year later. That's a few years less of regency council.
I now have the Italian mission but I hate that one, Italy is too far to effectively run a campaign. I do have a massive army so maybe I'll try and annex liguria, a second centre of trade is always nice.
I bought it, haven't had the time to sit down and try it yet. Seeing the comments I realise I'll need to do a bit more than just play about casually with it and expect to achieve anything.
Well just make sure you pick a big nation the first few times you play. France/Burgundy/Castille/England are good choices I think.
I played my first few rounds as the Lubeck/Hansa and got smacked in a terrible way.
Shabbaman
25-06-2011, 10:18
EU III Chronicles (with all 4 expansion packs) is on sale for 7,50 on Steam. It includes Divine Wind, which has a world map. That's pretty epic. I'm tempted to buy it, but I still have civ5 and shogun2 to play... and like Propain said earlier: the game is complex. But if anyone here likes a challenge, now is the time.
I still play EUIII on and off and for that price you can't really go wrong.
I don't have divine wind, so can't say anything about it from experience but reviews weren't raving iirc. EU III comes standard with a world map, I think Divine Wind added start support for civs in Japan/China including some scenarios for that.
EDIT: Just saw that they also released 2 sprite packs for Divine Wind at € 1.99 each. Paradox is getting on the DLC cash bandwagon as well it seems. :)
Still a pity Divine Wind is 7.50€ seperate as well, not paying that kind of money for it when I already own the rest of the game.
Divine wind and the 2 sprite packs (and the rest of the game) are 75% off on Steam at the moment for the midweek sale (12 hours to go). That makes Divine win £1.74, the sprite packs £0.39 or Chronicles £4.99. Don't know what the Euro price is.
They were € 2.49 and € 0.49. I was just back in time from my holiday to pick em up.
Shabbaman
14-08-2012, 14:51
Man, this game is hard...
Have you had your king die with the heir still underage. REgency council swoops in and wont let you declare war. So annoying, like republic in Civ 2.
Shabbaman
28-09-2012, 19:24
Actually, I had this this afternoon.
Melifluous
02-10-2012, 16:31
Right then.
I've bought this game (I've got a feeling I've got it before also, but a while ago, suggested from another site)...
I've done some reading around, watched some Youtube vids (best quote I found was "This game has a learning curve so steep it should be described as a wall") and finally read this An Empire Under the Sun (http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/showthread.php?485232-An-Empire-Under-the-Sun-An-England-Gameplay-Tutorial-AAR) on the Paradox forums (damn that forum makes me never want to buy their software ever again).
I think I might now finally be able to start a game and take the pause button off [:P]
Will get back to you if I work out how to play this :)
[meli]
Shabbaman
02-10-2012, 18:02
What, you played for 16.3 hours and only just got to unpausing the game? The best learning curve is unpausing and immediately declaring war on a random neighbour. That'll teach them. On a more helpful note, this walkthrough (http://lparchive.org/Europa-Universalis-III-Divine-Wind/) is worth reading.
Melifluous
03-10-2012, 09:50
OK,
Starting a new game, England, 1399.
Stability slider full right and troops started in overseas states. Merchants sent to core and some stability advisors hired.
Unpause.
I get the conquer Ireland mission, seems like as good a start as any. Build up some troops and push into Ireland.
Or try to.
Spend 10 minutes trying to work out how to get troops into a boat, before working out that transports work as a kind of bridge and have to be in open water before you can move troops to them.
Anyways. Will cut a long story short. I occupy all 4 Irish provinces with troops and siege their forts.
I beat all forts and then wonder if I really need to wait 50 years to gain the province... More scratching of heads.
I get offered lots of peace requests from Irish provinces but unsure whether they'll give me their province (they seem to involve me paying them!) I decline all.
In a moment of inspiration I look at offering them peace and see a nice shiny option called Annex. Swiftly pushing on I take the whole of Ireland, go Team!
An un-pause later and I win my first mission. Prestige is getting high, I'm number 1 in the world :D Infamy is just over 7, apparently my reputation is tarnished.
Next mission, Scotland! Thankfully they're not allied with France anymore (not sure when that stopped) and sometime during the fight with Ireland I allied with Burgundy. I keep getting peace requests from some places in Europe, I decline them all, will wait until Burgundy stops fighting them before I peace up.
I move my army across from Ireland to Scotland and kill the Scottish army. I move troops to all provinces and lay siege to their forts.
Then I had to get off the train in London for work today, so that's it for now.
I checked my ledger just now.
It's November 1402.
I have 7.5 Infamy (3rd biggest badass! [B)])
I have 97 Prestige (No.1 baby :cool:)
Stability is 3 ;)
[meli]
Shabbaman
03-10-2012, 10:10
What difficulty level? Also, infamy 7 is peanuts, I'm over 40. Tends to screw with merchant compete chances though...
I beat all forts and then wonder if I really need to wait 50 years to gain the province... More scratching of heads.
I had the same problem when someone stole the Azores from me. Apparently you can annex colonies outside peace negotiations.
Melifluous
03-10-2012, 10:16
I couldn't see where to change the difficulty level, so I guess I'm playing Normal. :p
Where would you go in the interface to annex something outside of peace?:confused:
[meli]
Shabbaman
03-10-2012, 10:20
If you capture a colony that isn't autonomous, the "scorch the earth" button (in the army box) changes to "seize colony". This is especially useful when you're invading America, since a lot of the indian lands are basically colonies.
Also, I noticed you're playing HTTTTTTTT, not Divine Wind. Why?
Melifluous
03-10-2012, 10:42
Cos I bought the Complete Pack to start with, then bought the upgrade the HttT.
Is it worth the upgrade again to DW?
[meli]
Shabbaman
03-10-2012, 11:01
I don't know actually. Maybe when it's on a discount. See the differences (http://www.paradoxian.org/eu3wiki/What_is_new_in_Divine_Wind), unless you want to play Japan or China it seems like minor tweaks. It's worth keeping in mind that a lot of costs and benefits are different between HTTT and DW though.
Funny, one of the changes concerns Personal Unions. Getting a PU isn't that difficult, but getting something out of it is. I got into a PU with three province Brabant, and because I was bored I integrated it (which is a feature of DW) into the evil french empire. Now I read that I should've waited until I inherited that lousy part of Europe, because then I'd have gotten cores on those provinces. Now all I have are rebels (good for army tradition).
I've done some reading around, watched some Youtube vids (best quote I found was "This game has a learning curve so steep it should be described as a wall") and finally read this An Empire Under the Sun (http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/showthread.php?485232-An-Empire-Under-the-Sun-An-England-Gameplay-Tutorial-AAR) on the Paradox forums (damn that forum makes me never want to buy their software ever again).
[meli]
Apparently Paradox doesn't believe in manuals or smoothing over install procedures for their customers. Highly frustrating indeed.
OK,
Starting a new game, England, 1399.
Stability slider full right and troops started in overseas states. Merchants sent to core and some stability advisors hired.
Keep in mind that stability rises fairly quickly by itself and good advisors can be scarce. I prefer to pick up really good 'homebred' advisors in other fields during the 1st year, and in okt 1400 quickly rehire when the foreign advisors are on the market.
I beat all forts and then wonder if I really need to wait 50 years to gain the province... More scratching of heads.
50 years of ownership is needed to gain a core on a province. Provinces you have a core on have benefits (can give you a casus belli that will let you conquer the province without taking an infamy hit for example.)
What difficulty level? Also, infamy 7 is peanuts, I'm over 40. Tends to screw with merchant compete chances though...
Getting over your infamy limit is really, really bad. You'll end up with everybody and their dog declaring war on you. Also infamy stifles your papal influence which can get you excommunicated. Excommunication is also a sure fire way to receive DoW's from all over the known world.
Keep your infamy as low as possible and look for casi belli that provide good infamy bonuses when you wanna incorporate foreign territory.
Melifluous
03-10-2012, 14:27
OK well,
Part 2 I guess. One lunchtime later :)
Finished crushing Scotland and annex the lot. Another Mission completed!
I decide to try one of them National Decisions and CREATE GREAT BRITAIN. Founded 21st August 1403 only 200 years before the real GB was formed...
Now my national flag is something I recognise! [sun]
Not sure what to do here and I get given some mission to take Artois. Now Burgundy is not someone I want to piss off, so I cancel that Mission.
Next Mission, make friends with Burgundy! Somehow my rep with Burgundy is down to -85 and I need it over 100. Time to save some cash and gift the crap out of them I guess :/
In other news I see that Denmark has no heir and I quickly make a marriage with them and am pleased to announce that if he drops dead today, I will be king of Denmark (which also has claims to Sweden and Norway!). I am disappointed not to find a spy mission to assassinate their king :(
And again, had to stop.
Still No.1 in Prestige (around 80)
Infamy is 17 and falling.
Do I hang around and wait for some techs to pop now?
[meli]
Shabbaman
03-10-2012, 14:32
Getting over your infamy limit is really, really bad. You'll end up with everybody and their dog declaring war on you. Also infamy stifles your papal influence which can get you excommunicated. Excommunication is also a sure fire way to receive DoW's from all over the known world.
I'm not over the infamy limit, but I get excommunicated all the time. That's one of the reasons my infamy is so high, because I vassalize all the tiny nations that think they should declare war on me.
Now my national flag is something I recognise!
Apparently if you form GB as Scotland the british flag is different. Quite funny.
Melifluous
03-10-2012, 14:53
Apparently if you form GB as Scotland the british flag is different. Quite funny.
Those sort of comments start wars you know.
Maybe my next game will be as Belgium, perhaps I could take over Holland? [:o)]
[meli]
Shabbaman
03-10-2012, 16:28
Actually, you could form the Netherlands if you have a predominantly dutch or flemish culture. It's pretty useful if you're playing one of the dutch minors, because the event grants a core on Antwerp and Vlaanderen. And having cores on your neighbours provinces is A Good Thing (tm).
I see no reason why the Netherlands would use the flag of the princes of Holland when either Vlaanderen or Frisia would form the Netherlands though. Neither have a particular love for the house of orange.
Those sort of comments start wars you know.
Maybe my next game will be as Belgium, perhaps I could take over Holland? [:o)]
[meli]
Taking over Holland is always a fine idea. No belgium in the game though, so you need to take Burgundy or Hainaut. Or best: Brabant. Nothing beats taking holland as brabant :D
I have taken up Mel's challenge and started playing Brabant with the goal of forming the Netherlands. This is hard. Brabant is supposed to be medium difficulty level, I'll steer clear from hard for a long while then.
After a few test games I quickly learned you can't just conquer and annex your way into supremacy like you can with Castille. The game i played for 75 years now started with Burgundy declaring war on me right from the get go. I had to scramble allies whereever I could and play ring around the rosie for quite a while to avoid having my army annihilated. Eventually I made my way to Burgundy and bordering provinces while my allies entertained Burgundies main army. Even after I conquered all provinces burgundy refused any decent peace and they where to large to annex. FInally ended up with Flanders, 2 other useless provinces near burgundies capital, 5 loans and a ruined economy. Great.
After a few years the emperor starts demanding I liberate my newly acquired provinces. Even better. I'm now in a PU with HOlland, have flanders and Cleve vassalised and Zeeland annexed. Utrecht is gonna be a pain, they have allies and independence garantuees coming out of their ears.
Melifluous
16-10-2012, 16:42
OK EU3 is officially my most favourite game ever :D
I decided to try some games on Very Easy. Lame but true.
Currently enjoying a fantastic romp as the Scottish, just about managed to completely take over the English and remove them from the game.
Managed to get my Infamy to 90 I think it was (when my Inf Cap was around 55!).
Everyone really really hates me :) Rebellions and revolts popping up all over the place. Stability up and down like a yo-yo and magistrates and generals defecting.
Managed to repel a mass invasion of France, Castille and Portugal Allied with the revolts popping up all over England and Ireland.
Have released everyone (Wales, Cornwall and the Irish states) as Vassals to try and reduce the Infamy and have had my country collapse once (which seems to do nothing much? Might have screwed my Legitimacy but that was screwed anyway)
Oh and at my worst point and highest infamy I suddenly got made the Papal Controller, that made me laugh :)
Yee-haw 40 years until I core central England and make Great Britain as the Scots (thanks for the idea Shabba!).
Just have to see if I can survive that long as revolts of 24,000 men are not funny...
[meli]
PS. Fun fact, declare war on the English and you often get an event happen called The Highlanders Arrive (http://www.paradoxian.org/eu3wiki/The_Highlanders_Arrive) an extra 12,000 troops you say? Yummy. Also Resist the English (http://www.paradoxian.org/eu3wiki/Resist_the_English) Double Forcelimit modifier and Double the manpower? Someone really didn't like England in the 15th Century :)
Shabbaman
16-10-2012, 18:12
OK, I'll play Scotland next. Or Ireland.
Kingreno
22-01-2013, 10:33
So, PP got me a free code for this game and I spent yesterday evening exploring teh possibilities. It seems like a very decent game though the learning curve is indeed steep, and the in game help is non-existant!
I started a game as Holland and that lasted just 10 years. Here's what happened: I got a "build army quest" and so I built armies, set research to govenrment and sent out traders to Antwerpen and Lübeck. Money was good and my relations to my Dutch neighbours very decent.
So far, so good. Now, in just 3 years of Play, micghty Burgundy declares war without CB on Brabant and Liege, conquering them with ease. They then go on to take Utrecht and are attacking Gelre... Their army is massive and though I am pretty well defended there seems no way I can take them on, or am I missing something here? I am at peace with them but for how long?
Othe rproblems:
My prestige is -5,0 per year without visible cause. do not get it...
I have 5 Magistrates, but what do they do?
I have a Navy, but it sits in port, what good can they do?
Shabbaman
22-01-2013, 11:14
So, PP got me a free code for this game and I spent yesterday evening exploring teh possibilities. It seems like a very decent game though the learning curve is indeed steep, and the in game help is non-existant!
I started a game as Holland and that lasted just 10 years. Here's what happened: I got a "build army quest" and so I built armies, set research to govenrment and sent out traders to Antwerpen and Lübeck. Money was good and my relations to my Dutch neighbours very decent.
So far, so good. Now, in just 3 years of Play, micghty Burgundy declares war without CB on Brabant and Liege, conquering them with ease. They then go on to take Utrecht and are attacking Gelre... Their army is massive and though I am pretty well defended there seems no way I can take them on, or am I missing something here? I am at peace with them but for how long?
You need an alliance with France or England or something like that. Or ally with Burgundy. Grant them military access. All that will keep them from invading you. You are relatively safe, because Burgundy doesn't get pre-set missions to conquer you (although there's always border friction that could give them a random CB). Burgundy gets missions to conquer Brabant and Hainaut (actually that one is useful to get out of the personal union). These missions give them a CB, although that might not be so obvious. I don't know why they're picking on Utrecht and Gelre: they might've been too weak, insulting, or whatever. It's not as if the AI refrains from building up infamy...
It's a bad thing, because you need Utrecht and Gelre yourself. Luckily if they don't have a core there, the HRE might demand that they release those provinces.
My prestige is -5,0 per year without visible cause. do not get it...
You're obviously losing prestige because the people are forgetting the awesome things you've done in the past. It's a game mechanic that exists to get you to do stuff.
I have 5 Magistrates, but what do they do?
My, you survived for 10 years without using a magistrate? What difficulty level are you playing? I wouldn't recommend playing on normal... Anyway, magistrates are the "action buttons" of this game. Almost everything you want to do requires one (or more) magistrates (and if it doesn't require magistrates, it requires a diplomat). If you want to build something, you need a magistrate, for example. Or if you want to commission a painting ;) My suggestion is that you build a constable or market first, because it is important to get a workshop or trade depot (the level 2 buildings following those) ASAP. It's all about the ducats.
I have a Navy, but it sits in port, what good can they do?
Select them and make them sail around. Discover the world, meet new people and kill them. Actually, you might need to wait a few turns before you can do that.
So, PP got me a free code for this game and I spent yesterday evening exploring teh possibilities. It seems like a very decent game though the learning curve is indeed steep, and the in game help is non-existant!
I started a game as Holland and that lasted just 10 years. Here's what happened: I got a "build army quest" and so I built armies, set research to govenrment and sent out traders to Antwerpen and Lübeck. Money was good and my relations to my Dutch neighbours very decent.
So far, so good. Now, in just 3 years of Play, micghty Burgundy declares war without CB on Brabant and Liege, conquering them with ease. They then go on to take Utrecht and are attacking Gelre... Their army is massive and though I am pretty well defended there seems no way I can take them on, or am I missing something here? I am at peace with them but for how long?
Othe rproblems:
My prestige is -5,0 per year without visible cause. do not get it...
I have 5 Magistrates, but what do they do?
I have a Navy, but it sits in port, what good can they do?
Well, Holland is a good choice to start with. Good economy and research rates.
Some tips:
when you start focus all your research ability on getting stability to 3. This will greatly improve your income and reduce revolt risks. Once you hit stability 3 you can research other stuff. If you take a stab hit during play ( and you will at some point) immediately focus all research to get stab back up to 3 again.
All dutch/ belgian provinces run the risk of Burgundian invasion when you start. Send out some alliance requests to powerfull nations before you press the unpause button for the 1st time.
Check Burgundy's mission before you unpause. Especiallt when you play as Brabant. Sometimes Burgundy's mission is to add you to their empire and that garantuees an early attack. Focus on allies and military even more.
Magistrates: used for building stuff and some decision. Not so important at the start. use every 5th for a great painting and convert magistrate into cult tradition
Navy. Not very usefull at the start unless someone DoW's you and tries to land troops from ships.
I took so much time writing that up between work that Shabba basically gave all the same advise alrdy :)
Kingreno
22-01-2013, 12:39
Thanks PP and Shabba!
About Holland being a vassal of (tiny) Hainaut. Is declaring war the only option?? I immediately suffer war from Brittany and some other province...
So Magistrates are used for everything except trade/diplo.
What I did now was autosend traders to Antwerp and Lübeck (closest tradehubs) and I get the idea this gives me ducats.
I send the diplomats (always in short supply!!) to my neighbours for mili passage and stuff like that. So I should send soem to France and England for alliances as well huh? Ok will do. How about tradetreaties? Do or don't? It's not like in civ or total war that trade is always good?
Magistrates = paintings?? I have some other "envelelopes with the green V on it" is that what they do?
How much military do I need? I have 16 units in Holland at teh moment while Gelre has only 1. Yet without a CB... it seems in vain. Thta's a don't right, attacking without CB?
Shabbaman
22-01-2013, 14:52
About Holland being a vassal of (tiny) Hainaut. Is declaring war the only option?? I immediately suffer war from Brittany and some other province...
Take a look at this strategy guide (http://www.paradoxian.org/eu3wiki/Holland_strategy). If you're only half as interested in obscure game mechanics as I am you'll love that wiki. I'll copy/paste the part about Hainaut:
1. Follow the classical path by sending insults to Hainaut. The relationship level with Hainaut must drop below 0: after the death of the king, Holland will get a separate king and become an independent nation. This path to independence can be long and exhausting.
2. Dissolve the alliance with Hainaut and simply declare war on them. Holland will immediately get a new, independent king. But here's the catch: Hainaut is protected by the Holy Roman Emperor (most likely Bohemia) and also allied with Trier. So though it's possible to quickly win against Hainaut and get peace (most likely with Trier), Bohemia can send huge armies that are just too strong.
3. This path towards independence is the most recommended. Simply dissolve the alliance with Hainaut (because you don't want to fight Burgundy) and wait until Burgundy gets the mission to annex Hainaut and declares war on them. Burgundy will quickly win and annex Hainaut. This will automatically free you from the union.
The most crucial part here is not to forget to dissolve the alliance with Hainaut because otherwise you will be having lots of trouble (when having alliance in personal union as lesser partner, you automatically become dragged into war when somebody declares war on major partner of the union). I actually recommend to dissolve alliance right away at the start of the game, because Hainaut is too weak to protect you anyway.
What I did now was autosend traders to Antwerp and Lübeck (closest tradehubs) and I get the idea this gives me ducats.
Well, you're lucky for a change: those are the most valuable centers of trade, so you'll receive the best revenue. Merchants can make you very rich.
Ok will do. How about tradetreaties? Do or don't? It's not like in civ or total war that trade is always good?
Trade agreements are good when you're ahead, but bad when you're behind. In my France game I got into the Hanseatic trade league (which is a trade agreement with multiple nations at once, basically), and it screwed me out of competing in Lubeck. Luckily it screwed everybody else out of competing in Antwerp and Genoa (CoT's I owned), so it wasn't that bad for me. With the over 9000 infamy it helped me compete in foreign CoT's that nobody else had reached, but I don't know if it's worth it. At the time it wasn't a conscious decision, it just sounded cool (an important factor in any Paradox game). Anyway, about trade agreements, I wouldn't bother. Another related topic is "open markets", but you shouldn't have problems with that already.
Magistrates = paintings?? I have some other "envelelopes with the green V on it" is that what they do?
Yes, all green envelopes make paintings [:o)] There's a ? symbol next to the envelope, it has a tooltip that tells you what it does and what the requirements are.
How much military do I need? I have 16 units in Holland at teh moment while Gelre has only 1. Yet without a CB... it seems in vain. Thta's a don't right, attacking without CB?
You don't have a core on Gelre?
Well, you can attack without CB, but you'll get a stability hit (that's what the information in the "declare war" screen means). You're small, if you hire an artist you should be back at +3 stability rather quickly (especially if Propain has told you how you can move the sliders...). Sometimes you get a mission to conquer or vassalize your neighbours (which means you get a CB), so it's worth pursuing the mission objectives you receive. If not for the mission itself, perhaps for the next mission.
Which brings me to this: what are you planning to do with Gelre? You're in the HRE, so it's likely the emperor will force you to release provinces you don't have a core on. You could vassalize them, usually you get a mission to integrate a vassal which also grants a core on that vassal.
Kingreno
22-01-2013, 21:27
Thanks again for the feedback.
My second try with Holland lasted 75 years. I got the feeling I got unlucky with several things, Hinaut survived very long despite a Burgundy mission to kill them, my neighbours all got heavy allieances in the HRE and my gamble to invest in an alliance with England went wrong as Spain, Sweden, Denmark and France declared on them and even got a foothold in Cornwall...
The HRE web of alliances made it virtually insane to wage war as was shown when I attacked Frisian with a decent CB. I got swarmed with 20+ declarations of war :( I do not know to prevent this from happening as everyone seems to be allied with at least 3 other nations getting a nasty dominoeffect...
Use of diplomats in the early game
I read you used diplomats to get military access. In the early game I'd skip on that and use the diplomat to get an alliance or a royal marriage. These are much more valuable options and diplomats are scarce. Imo getting military access is only usefull in 2 situations
1- You need it to get to a opponent in a war
2- You need relations with someone improved. Strangely military access also increases your relations by +10
Thanks again for the feedback.
The HRE web of alliances made it virtually insane to wage war as was shown when I attacked Frisian with a decent CB. I got swarmed with 20+ declarations of war :( I do not know to prevent this from happening as everyone seems to be allied with at least 3 other nations getting a nasty dominoeffect...
Being small you need a lot of alliances yourself, invest in that with your diplomats in the early game. Also when you declare war there;s an option you can check to call all your allies to arms. You can also check there if they;'re willing to join and judge if enough parties will enter the war on your side to make it worth while.
Bear in mind that the party who starts a siege is considered the leader in that siege and will eventually occupy that territory. Only provinces that you occupy yourself can be ceded to you in a peace treaty so make sure you beat your allies to essential provinces.
Shabbaman
24-01-2013, 10:34
Perhaps it's worth to declare ASAP if they're not into many alliances at the start. You really need those provinces (especially Brabant, because of it's university (I guess Leuven is in Brabant) to make anything out of that starting position. I think your priorities are something like this:
1. Make sure Hainaut doesn't get you into war with Burgundy
2. Get rid of Hainaut
3. Get Friesland and Gelre
4. Make yourself unappealing for Burgundy
And use your diplomats accordingly. Maybe you could swap 2 and 3, I don't know if the PU allows you to wage war. So start like this:
1. Cancel alliance with Hainault. This should result in a rep hit with them, so perhaps you don't need to:
2. Insult Hainaut. Their king will die eventually, if you're below 100 you'll get out of the PU. Otherwise Burgundy might help you.
3. Attack ASAP, before they can get you into cascading war declarations.
4. Grant military access to Burgundy. Don't ask for it, offer it. If they have military access, they get a stability hit when they declare war on you. You can do the same with allies of Friesland and Gelre. Truce has a similar effect. I'm assuming the AI gets the same stability hit as the human player (hard to tell), but the AI will honor truce most of the time.
One thing you could do is to ally with France. I don't think you'll be harmed if Burgundy attacks you and France honors the alliance. The downside is that France and Burgundy will be fighting a lot anyway, so you might get Burgundy pissed at you at a time you might not want that. Note that Burgundy has provinces you want (and will get cores on), so you need to fight Burgundy at some point. The only way to win that war successfully is if Burgundy wages war on your allies, not on you, and you manage to steal one or two provinces (those with textile manufacturies obviously) and sue for peace.
I don't think you should make yourself unappealing to Burgundy. Burgundy and France will end up in war, one will grow huge from it and that will seriously hamper you expansion options to the south, possibly even threathen your existence. Also Burgundy owns the Antwerpen CoT which is a huge boost to their income. The longer they have it, the stronger they become. You want that CoT.
Imho your best option is to fight Burgundy asap and make sure you get Antwerpen and at least one more Burgundian province from the 'belgian' chunk in the peace deal. To win this war in the early years 15K-20k troops should be enough. Put them all in 1 stack and fight defensively (only in your home provinces, not on B's turf) at first so B's armies suffer from attrition. Pick of armies that you can annihilate decisively without too much losses (practically: only fight armies that you outnumber at least 4 to 5 times). Avoid other fights, run if needed.
At some point you'll notice that B's war capacity will drop to the red (<25% ???) which means they don't have the manpower to reinforce their troops anymore. From that point on you can take on slightly more even fights. Once B won't be able to reinforce at all, you can simply clean up and occupy provinces you want to have out of the peace deal.
Be wary of occupying the southern B provinces. You'll be suffering from attrition yourself and reinforcing is slow. You'll easily get kited and run the risk of losing armies at little cost to B. Only occupy the northern part of B when you need a higher war score to force the peace deal you want.
Kingreno
24-01-2013, 12:45
Okay, some other Q's :)
When I ask for an alliance with a big country I get the "impossible" message, meaning 100% chance they will not accept the proposal. Playing as Holland I need an ally or 2 to even things up, how do you guys manage that?
How important are Papal scores and HRE scores? Ans Holland is supposed to leave the HRE asap, why is that?
Shabbaman
24-01-2013, 13:18
The AI can only get 3 alliances, that's why it's not possible to ally them most of the time.
As for the papal states, read my France AAR and look for the word "excommunication" (could be a valid strategy against Burgundy btw). HRE score is important if you have HRE ambitions, I don't think it's worth paying attention to.
I dont agree HRE isn't worth while. Bonusses for being HRE emperor are huge and it's not that hard to become emperor when you're playing a dutch/belgian province. 3 electors are close and small (iirc Koln, Munster & the palatinate) vassal them and manage your relation score where necessary and their votes are almost garantueed. Usually 3 votes is enough to get the position.
Shabbaman
24-01-2013, 15:11
Well, by the time KR gets 3 vassals I don't think he'll be asking us for advice how to start his game. Until then, I wouldn't bother with the HRE.
Played a quick Holland game to get a feel for the options:
pro:
Holland is a trade and economy beast.
I was amazed by this.in no time I had 5 merchants at all CoT's I could find. Research went fast, after 20 years (iirc) I could reach all CoT's and had 5 merchants sitting at each. Getting competed away was extremely rare so I was sitting on 5 merchants that I couldn't sent anywhere for ages. Never had that with other countries
Money was hilarious because of it. After a few years I checked the ledger and I was no 5 or something in income while only on 2 provinces and not owning a CoT. Ridiculous. As a consequence you can quickly build provinces improvements.
stability extremely easy to maintain
A consequence of the high economy and low province number. Getting back from stab 2 to 3 takes 1 or 2 months. Really fast
cons
In PU from the start
The PU is a pain. When the game started I saw Burgundy had the conquer Hainaut mission so I thought I'd be out of the PU in no time. Wrong, B just sat on it's hands and I had to wait for 20 years for the Hainaut monarch to die.
This makes for boring gameplay: you can't make alliances or royal marriages and you can only declare war on your PU partner. Soon you'll have merchants everywhere. You've built all buildings you can and a decent army. At that point you can only fast forward hoping something will happen.
strategy options
I think there are 2 options
1- sit peacefully, ride out the PU and race to Conquest of the new world
2- declare war on hainaut before you even unpause the game.
Peace option
I started playing peacefully but wasnt focussing on CofNW. Research is blazing fast so my guess is when you do focus you can reach the new world ages before anyone else and block hugs coast areas.
War option
If you send a DoW from the getgo, Hainaut will have no alliances yet. Safest way to do it. You'll take a +2 stab hit because you have no CB but wth the Holland tech rate: who cares. Hainaut is onlu a one province state so annexing it is an option, chances are Burgundy won't like it though so you'll need a sizeable army to deter them. Also you'll get 4 infamy from annexation and the HRE won't like it but that's a small price to pay for one extra province and freedom of choice
Kingreno
26-01-2013, 15:53
Restarted on Holland as well.
The PU is crap. I decided against War without CB as I tried that a few times and was attacked too soon. Instead this time I just dispolved the alliance and waited. This took ages. I skyrocketed om trade and tech and basicly kept out of wars. England is almost dead as Castille, Portugal, france, Burgundy and All Scandinavians are at war with her. Closer at home Burgundy took Brabant, Utrecht, Gelre and Friesland. France took Anwerpen in a war from Burgundy so France is the meanest SOB in town... She's Excommunicated all the time now. She even warned me!! Luckyli I am still at peace though I doubt this will last. I send money to France though, so it ma keep me alive.
However, all this peace has brought me to the new wolrd first! With all big navies engaged in heavy wars I got to colonise a whopping 10 lands in America! Being the only western power there is awesome. I makie a new colony every year and I may get the whole USA+Canada coast before anyone else gets in.
What would happen if France kills my European Holdings? Do I get a capital moving towards America?
I see you took some speeling classes from Killer :p
Iirc ceding a capital province can never be part of a peace treaty. Annexing is the only option there and that's never gonna happen because you have to many overseas holdings. The good news: You'll never lose Holland.
Note that managing colonies is quite different from managing your european provinces: income works differently (dont know the ins and outs, check the wiki) and you'll have to make focused choices what to build: Magistrates will be in short supply from now on.
some tips:
- The caribbean, latin america and south america is much more valuable than N-america. Especially the latin&south american indians have huge gold reserves. Hit them before anyone else does.
- Income will be hampered when pirates block your harbors. Make sure you have enough ships to fight them of and keep trade going. Parking a ship in every coastal water will usually do the trick.
- Focus on coastal provinces first. You can only colonise inland ones from your coastal ones, so if you manage to get all coastal provinces before others arrive you can colonise the inland at you own speed. Latin america is important here because it gives access to the western american coastal provinces.
- Keep an eye on you colonial maintenance. It increases for every colony you have.
- Beware of the reformation: catholicism gives 2 settlers a year, protestantism only 1
Shabbaman
27-01-2013, 15:07
In my France game, I could conquer lands from north american indians beyond my colonization range (and without colonists!). They had a CoT as well. I don't know if it's always there, but that's worth looking into. Southern US and caribbean get expensive trade goods, so owning a CoT there means money. North US and Canada (yes Barbu, especially Canada) isn't worth much. Look at a province's base tax.
Moving your capital across the point is a valid strategy for European minors. Just do it.
Conquer you can without a coastal province.
Both Latin america and South America have at least one CoT. You do need to send quite a bit of your own trade through them otherwise they are prone to closure. And sadly both aren't coastal. Maybe there are more CoT at the start but in my Brabant game I only saw 2.
barbu1977
27-01-2013, 19:18
North US and Canada (yes Barbu, especially Canada) isn't worth much.
Apparently, France did let Canada go to Great-Brittain in 1763 thinking it was not a good investment and would ruin them. The opinion of Canada was very weak in France:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_few_acres_of_snow
Socrates
27-01-2013, 20:21
Apparently, France did let Canada go to Great-Brittain in 1763 thinking it was not a good investment and would ruin them. The opinion of Canada was very weak in France:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_few_acres_of_snow
Little kid joke I remember (sadly in French):
Context: Louis XV feared he could lose Quebec to the English, where Montcalm headed the French.
Line: Louis XV: "Je vais perdre Montcalm, je vais perdre Montcalm!..." ("I'm gonna lose Montcalm...")
Comment: Et il a perdu son calme. (Eventually he lost his temper.)
-> Pun about "Montcalm" and "mon calme" (lit. "my calm attitude")
Shabbaman
28-01-2013, 10:00
Both Latin america and South America have at least one CoT. And sadly both aren't coastal. Maybe there are more CoT at the start but in my Brabant game I only saw 2.
Hm. I've seen a CoT in Mexico city (which closed shortly after I got it, maybe some indian revolt made it disappear) which isn't coastal, and a coastal CoT in an incan province. You can take the incas for their goldmines, but you need to be lucky to find some tobacco to trade there. These provinces will not have a high base tax. I'm wondering if these CoT's are randomly placed. Anyway, bottom line: if you find a CoT, take it asap. It'll hurt your compete chances until you've got a core on that province though, so this might be a good time to join the Hansa. In my case the CoT was in Muskogee. This is what I found on the wiki:
Prior to the Reformation, acquire colonies as a defensive measure; acquire those lands likely to be acquired by other nations with QFTNW. One plot of land deserves special attention. The Native Americans occupying Muskogee possess a large number of inland provinces. If another power attacks them before The Netherlands, a powerful colonial rival will be created, but seizing all of these lands prior to the Reformation will make the instability created by that event very difficult to manage. One very useful strategy is to attack these lands as soon as possibly, but to only seize the southeasternmost territories: Muskogee, Yamasee, Apalache, and Pensacola. With those in hand, other colonial powers will be unlikely to come into contact with these territories.
Anyway, look at the base tax and the trade good a province has. This can help you decide if it's worth taking. There's a downside to having too many colonies: your trade efficiency will get a hit. Trade efficiency is calculated by dividing the number of warships by the number overseas provinces. This can hurt your income.
Hm. I've seen a CoT in Mexico city (which closed shortly after I got it, maybe some indian revolt made it disappear) which isn't coastal, and a coastal CoT in an incan province. You can take the incas for their goldmines, but you need to be lucky to find some tobacco to trade there. These provinces will not have a high base tax. I'm wondering if these CoT's are randomly placed. Anyway, bottom line: if you find a CoT, take it asap. It'll hurt your compete chances until you've got a core on that province though, so this might be a good time to join the Hansa. In my case the CoT was in Muskogee. This is what I found on the wiki:
Anyway, look at the base tax and the trade good a province has. This can help you decide if it's worth taking. There's a downside to having too many colonies: your trade efficiency will get a hit. Trade efficiency is calculated by dividing the number of warships by the number overseas provinces. This can hurt your income.
MExico city I have seen as well, I'm pretty much convinces that the incan CoT isn't coastal though. And I don't think they're randomly placed.
I agree that the risk of those CoT's disappearing is high. You can prevent that by grabbing enough provinces near those CoT's which will increase the trade value. Most likely you'll end up being the main, if not only, trading nation through those CoT's. So you have to make sure the trading value is high enough to keep them alive.
Never knew that trade efficiency is calculated that way. Can Trade Efficiency be > 100%? If so, I see possibilities for 2 province holland :)
Shabbaman
28-01-2013, 11:42
A CoT disappears if it becomes stagnant, which happens if the trade value or the number of trading nationalities there gets too low. You can see that information in the ledger. Trade value is determined by the price of the commodities traded there. So if you own provinces with valuable trade goods (since we're talking about America: tobacco, suger, coffee, cotton) the value goes up. If everything is crap, value goes down. So if you conquer the incan CoT, you're the only nation trading nation (besides the inca, if you keep some of them alive) there because of the distance (it's a large effective distance from Europe, so beyond the trade range of most nations). Because the Mexico or Tuskegee CoT will be closer to the self-sustaining provinces owned by the indians (or you/whoever; maybe South American colonies are close enough to it to get it's trade sent there, but they have to exist first...) the goods from those provinces won't be traded through the Incan CoT. So it's likely to become stagnant anyway. If that happens before you get there, it might be likely that the incan AI creates a new CoT, which explains why it might or might not be coastal. I'm 100% certain it's coastal in my game.
I know that a CoT disappears when it's stagnant. Had it happen with Isle de France in my Brabant game.
I think the Mexico City CoT should be fairly viable because the caribbean region usually has good tradegoods. The Incan one is a different cup of tea. In my Brabant game Milan and Castille (my jr PU partner :) ) have some colonies in S-america that trade through the now Not-so-Incan-anymore CoT. But even with those colonies it's CoT where I have 6 merchants and a heap of empty slots.
I think I solved the Incan CoT mystery. I read in a strategy guide that you should protect your 2 CoT's. Apparently they start with 2, I can imagina that one alreadt died of in both our games. Even more amazed that in both our games 1 CoT survived. :)
Kingreno
28-01-2013, 19:27
"playing" as the Netherlands right now, my Monarch is about to be replaced by her heir, who seems a LOT less productive, diplomatic, economic, militaristic... in ... well just about everything... advice? ;)
"playing" as the Netherlands right now, my Monarch is about to be replaced by her heir, who seems a LOT less productive, diplomatic, economic, militaristic... in ... well just about everything... advice? ;)
Not really. In EU III you're simply screwed. You can hope for an event where your heir dies but then you run the risk of ending up with a regency council or no heir at all.
If you wanna manage your heirs, play CK II :eek:
Or maybe you can ask Beatrix for some pointers on abdication for your heir :)
Shabbaman
29-01-2013, 10:48
I think the Mexico City CoT should be fairly viable because the caribbean region usually has good tradegoods.
Yes, but only if there are colonies in that region. It's the most likely region to be colonised, since it's the closest (speaking in EU3 distance measures here) to Portugal. If you conquer the Aztecs early (early, as in: before those provinces are within your colonization/trade range) then you'll end up with a CoT where you are the only trader and the only provinces that ship their goods there are the Aztec provinces and the few (your own?) colonies in the Caribbean and South America. In that case, I wonder if the CoT will survive stagnancy.
Anyway, it's a CoT in a gold mining province with a high base tax, there's not a real good reason not to take it. I still think Muskogee is a good CoT that is a viable target for acquisition (if only to keep it from anyone else), and it might just happen to be closer to some Caribbean provinces than Mexico City. The point is moot: conquer a sizeable piece of land from any indian tribe and you're done. Better: conquer both CoT's and colonize all land between them. That should do the trick.
Kingreno
29-01-2013, 11:04
Started as Holland several times again, this time with the goal of expanding military and not gambling too much.
- If Burgundy has the mission to Conquer Brabant your screwed, as she also has a core on Gelre and Holland will be surrounded in no time.
- I tried the aggressive approach to Hinaut several times but most times was screwed by Bohemia and money was not too good because of bad rep. It seems a viable option but requires a lot of luck.
- All in all the best option seems to break alliance with Hainaut and insult them and pray that their King dies. In the meantime you can expand trade/tech.
In the game that went okay I got out of the PU in the peacefull/insult way. I went for many alliances with smaller German states and I got to 7 alliances. This keeps Burgundy from attacking me so it seems.
Now, England is fighting Scotland and France is fighting Italian states. Aragon fights Castille (and wins!!). Burgundy is busy with Switzerland and smaller French states.
I got a CB on Oldenburg, and later the Hansa. I conquered Oldenburg, Bremen and Hamburg and have an economic powerhouse. My army is equal to Burgundy.
All seems fne and now... France allied Burgundy and bith are sending me insults and warnings...
I am heavily allied in the HRE (I think Austria and Bohemia will go my way), but it may seem in vain looking at the huge troopnumbers in France/Burgundy....
Is there some nifty way to screw their alliance? Or should I just fortify in Zeeland (I have a stack of 55 there, with a heave defence bonus) and wait it out?
I don't see a lot of problems with the CoT in mexico surviving once colonisation starts. Afaik a CoT will survive if the value is high enough, even with just one trading nation in it. I've seen a playtrough were some guy owned all of the americas and was the only nation using the CoT's there. All 6 merchant monopolies with a slew of empty spots in the CoT's.
Keeping the 2 incan CoT's alive will be difficult I think. We've both seen one die off in our games even before we arrived. With the western coast being much harder to colonise I think you won't see more than 1 CoT there most of the time.
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