View Full Version : Cut More Crap - Pitboss
Here we go! More Crap needs to be cut:
- Barbs are off
- City razing is off.
- No tech trading
- No vassal states
- Random events is on
- Normal speed
- Two settlers, one worker, two warriors, plus a warrior or scout depending on Hunting.
- Level is Noble
- Map is toroidal
A random selection has given the following Leaders to 15 human players:
Robi D - Washington
Killer - Lincoln
PP\Akots\Shabba - Zora Yaqob
Matrix - Wang Kan
Stapel - Suleiman
socralynnek - Saladin
Wosret - Peter
Grahamiam - Mehmed II
NHJ - Louis XIV
azzaman333 - Justinian I
Beam - Isabella
IanDC - Elizabeth
plattfuss - De Gaule
Dandridge - Churchill
Indiansmoke - Catherine
Kaleb - Alexander
Some details of the game can be seen here so happy lurking!
http://www.civstats.com/viewgame.php?gameid=1463
Password to register your leader is abc.
Essential info for playing:
How to log in:
- Start Civ4 - BtS
- Go to Multiplayer --> Direct IP Connection
- Fill in your nickname for Player Name and 83.161.37.29 OR haagsma.demon.nl OR beam.linuxhome.com (whatever suits your ruined brain best ) for Network Address and click Connect.
- Select your civilization and click Ok.
- Choose a password and fill it in twice. Next time, it will ask for the same password. (No shit! )
- Play!
- Exit to menu when you're done! The connection doesn't close properly when you exit the game directly, resulting in the game going slower and slower every time someone does that. In effect I would have to save and reload the game every turn.
When you leave the game always use "Exit to Main Menu!"
I suspect that "Exit to Desktop" does not close your connection properly and leaves some components of an Active Peer.
The doublemove rule in this game:
Doublemoves are allowed in all cases except when accompanied by a declaration of war. In that case the declaring player is not allowed any offensive action against declared player until either:
a) 18 hours after end of the turn where war is declared.
b) the declared player logs in after end of the turn where war is declared.
The declaration of war itself still allows units of the declaring player offensive actions against the declared player in the turn where war is declared.
Diplo victory is disabled OUT OF GAME. It is not disabled in game to allow the other diplo functions to work. Any attempt at any diplomatic victory will result in severe punishment, DoS, elimination from the game and / or drowning in a pool with a depth of less than 1/4 inch.
barbu1977
06-10-2009, 15:09
- That was 2 warriors plus a warrior or scout dependiong on hunting (I felt generous)
- Level is indeed noble
- Map is Toroidal.
- That was 2 warriors plus a warrior or scout dependiong on hunting (I felt generous)
- Level is indeed noble
- Map is Toroidal.
Toroidal is just a fancy word for 'shaped like a donut' :) .
Lt. Killer M
06-10-2009, 15:39
I'm feeling slightly peckish now.
have you started the game yet?
I'll start it tonight. I'm also considering to start a new thread with all the game info tonight cause I need to maintain quite some stuff in the first post.
I'll start it tonight. I'm also considering to start a new thread with all the game info tonight cause I need to maintain quite some stuff in the first post.
To avoid double troubel, I can simply copy it into the first post of this thread.
Shabbaman
06-10-2009, 18:10
Toroidal is just a fancy word for 'shaped like a donut' :) .
Hmmmm, donuts...
I'll start it tonight. I'm also considering to start a new thread with all the game info tonight cause I need to maintain quite some stuff in the first post.
I made you mod on this forum as well, so you should be able to edit Stapel's post. You owe me a donut :D
BTW, if there's anyone that would like to have a personal subforum for his spoiler thread just let me know. Be aware that you shouldn't be peeking into other people's spoilers if you're participating in this game.
The game is running, I can't settle or move units with my civ however. :( Can any fellow memember see if he can connect and settle / move??? Connecting is the same as Cut the Crap. :)
Lt. Killer M
06-10-2009, 20:50
I can't find the game.
http://www.civduelzone.com/forum/showthread.php?t=4764
Lt. Killer M
06-10-2009, 21:04
yeah, that's what I did before - a CIV restart solved the problem :)
My troops take orders, but only via mouse on map and keyboard, there are no icons. Game says 'waiting for other players'.
Mine don't move, looks a lot like it's not on simultaneous turns ?
Seems to be waiting for America to play.
Mine don't move, looks a lot like it's not on simultaneous turns ?
Seems to be waiting for America to play.
Going to restart with simultaneous turns enabled. :o
Thanks Ian, that did the trick and we are started! :D
Into the game no problems - Elizabeth is up & running.
Can't get into civstats though.
barbu1977
06-10-2009, 22:46
Into the game no problems - Elizabeth is up & running.
Can't get into civstats though.
Did you end up with the same leader as in the Texas Hold'em game?
If so you can also blame Canada!
Into the game, can't register on Civstats though, password is wrong?
Are all players aware we have lifted off?
Emperor Matrix of Straland is alive and kicking. :)
http://www.civstats.com/viewgame.php?gameid=1463
Password to register your leader is abc.
Not for me.
Nobody claimed Zara yet, so I will as soon as I get home. I guess I'll open the spoiler thread with Shabba and ProPain to get the starting picture. Zara is not bad, and UU is more or less OK if we survive that long.
I would just like to remind everyone that preferred way of diplomatic communications is pm at CDZ. That would ensure the safekeeping of the record books. Though Shabba and PP might prefer to handle it differently.
I logged in to claim Washington (lucky me). Good luck to all except Stapel :p
Btw Mauer will be assisting me with playing the turns.
Password to register your leader is abc.
Err... i don't think so. I tried to register with no luck. Even tried with caps since i thought it might be case sensitive.
Lt. Killer M
07-10-2009, 08:11
played - abc did not work
We still have 6 unclaimed slots. One of them, ALexander, is supposed to be AI, sowe still lack 5 players:
-Mehmed II - Gahamiam
-Louis XIV -NHJ
-Catherine - Idiansmoke
-De Gaulle - plattfuss
-Peter - Wosret
I'll send PMs!
I logged in to claim Washington (lucky me). Good luck to all except Stapel :p
Hehehe! Pray you are not my neighbour in this game!
Err... i don't think so. I tried to register with no luck. Even tried with caps since i thought it might be case sensitive.
I've never really gotten into CivStat too deep, but I cannot find any registration button at all. Where should I look?
socralynnek
07-10-2009, 10:42
We should probably pause the game until all Civs are claimed (if no one hasn't done so yet)
Do you have a Civstats login? (See top right in CivStats) If you are logged in and then go to the page of the game then you "Register your leader" bar somewhere in the upper centre. Then CivStats sends you eMails each time the turn changes.
Thanks for the heads up, Stapel. I'll play my turn when I get home in about six hours.
Indiansmoke
07-10-2009, 12:15
ooo I did not realize the game started....was still checking old thread...hopefully I will be in time to claim leader during first turn, when I get back from work :)
Do you have a Civstats login? (See top right in CivStats) If you are logged in and then go to the page of the game then you "Register your leader" bar somewhere in the upper centre. Then CivStats sends you eMails each time the turn changes.
I wasn't logged in..... Did so now. Anyway, the abc doesn't work!
Are random events on or off?
I remember a game where my 2nd city had a crap 9, but great 21. There was some forest to be chopped, so I went for a library, just to see it destroyed, the first turn after it was finished.
I wouldn't mind it to be on, but I would like to know.
Hehehe! Pray you are not my neighbour in this game!
I was preying you would be![laser]
Although after astronomy we'll all pretty much be neighbours
Indiansmoke
07-10-2009, 14:19
Although after astronomy we'll all pretty much be neighbours
In this map we all have 4 neighbours to start with...conquer one and you get another 3 :D
I've paused the game, so that no one will miss the first turn. Once the last person has logged in and played, he won't have to pause it again.
In this map we all have 4 neighbours to start with...conquer one and you get another 3 :D
Or do we?!?!?
In this map we all have 4 neighbours to start with...conquer one and you get another 3 :D
I would have thought it was 2 neighbours
I'ld assume we all have 2 neigbours. Though I can imagine the donut has an inner ring and an outer ring, which would provide for more neighbours.
I've paused the game, so that no one will miss the first turn. Once the last person has logged in and played, he won't have to pause it again.
Well, we do need some time limit!
barbu1977
07-10-2009, 15:48
Are random events on or off?
I think they are on
Indiansmoke
07-10-2009, 16:46
I'ld assume we all have 2 neigbours. Though I can imagine the donut has an inner ring and an outer ring, which would provide for more neighbours.
Donut? I thought the map was grid beta map?
Claimed Louis XIV, unpaused the game, played my turn, paused the game. Next!
Indiansmoke
07-10-2009, 17:17
So what is the status with Alexander? Is he given more units because he would be ai or does he have whatever everyone else has?
Kaleb from civfanatics replied to my message saying he could play the leader...should I tell him to claim it?
Perhaps the most elegant way is that Barbu claims the leader first, deletes whatever units are surplus and then it is available to Kaleb. Maybe handy to communicate the password between the two. :)
Indiansmoke
07-10-2009, 18:13
I have send him a PM in civfanatics to post here if he is still interested.
But I am not sure how to handle this to not hold the game up. I guess if we start with ai then it will have to be ai all the way.
I entered the abc password with every civ. Hopefully you can register now.
barbu1977
07-10-2009, 20:10
Perhaps the most elegant way is that Barbu claims the leader first, deletes whatever units are surplus and then it is available to Kaleb. Maybe handy to communicate the password between the two. :)
That is certainly an option.
He could also delete the units himself and post a spoiler in the first few turns, we'll have the confirmation that the units have been deleted.
Let's wait a couple hours to see if Kaleb sings in.
Whatever!
But I do think we shouldn't wait more than 24 hours from now to get on with it.
Indiansmoke
07-10-2009, 22:53
Claimed civ...good luck everyone, have a nice game and many thanks to the people that created and are hosting this :)
Sorry I wasn't able to post on here. there was a slight delay in my username being accepted on the forum (or just the email arriving in my inbox)
I'm supposed to have: - Two settlers, one worker, two warriors, plus a warrior or scout depending on Hunting.
right?
so I'll just delete the surplus units
barbu1977
07-10-2009, 23:52
Sorry I wasn't able to post on here. there was a slight delay in my username being accepted on the forum (or just the email arriving in my inbox)
I'm supposed to have: - Two settlers, one worker, two warriors, plus a warrior or scout depending on Hunting.
right?
so I'll just delete the surplus units
That should do the trick!
Just don't move them before deleting them. ;)
Still Grahamiam, plattfuss, and Wosret did not claim their civs.
Donut? I thought the map was grid beta map?
First post says map is toroidal
Still Grahamiam, plattfuss, and Wosret did not claim their civs.
Well we have waited this long to start a new game so a few extra hours isn't a big deal. Have they been PM'ed?
grahamiam
08-10-2009, 03:52
Sorry, I didn't check this site yesterday since we were a bit busy. I've logged in. Everything is paused so I can't move, but at least I logged in [:)]
Man, just unpause, play, and pause back.
Sorry, I didn't check this site yesterday since we were a bit busy. I've logged in. Everything is paused so I can't move, but at least I logged in [:)]
You can unpause it, make your moves then pause it again :)
grahamiam
08-10-2009, 04:28
Ok, done
First post says map is toroidal
Well we have waited this long to start a new game so a few extra hours isn't a big deal. Have they been PM'ed?
The map is that grid map with torodial worldwrap.
The map is that grid map with torodial worldwrap.
It didn't say that so i was going with the description. Is there a place where i can get the grid map script. I've never played on it and would like to get a general feel for the layout
I was the one assuming toroidal measn donut shaped. We all know whose mother assumption is.........
It didn't say that so i was going with the description. Is there a place where i can get the grid map script. I've never played on it and would like to get a general feel for the layout
Interested too.
Well we have waited this long to start a new game so a few extra hours isn't a big deal. Have they been PM'ed?
Yup, I PMed them yesterday.
We are still waiting for Wosret & plattfuss.
Plattfuss
08-10-2009, 08:32
Sorry, found this thread just now. I will play my turn tonight CET. Got to get to work first.
Sorry, found this thread just now. I will play my turn tonight CET. Got to get to work first.
No worries! I can imagine the CDZ-routines are a bit weird now & then.
Indiansmoke
08-10-2009, 10:26
It didn't say that so i was going with the description. Is there a place where i can get the grid map script. I've never played on it and would like to get a general feel for the layout
http://league.civplayers.com/getFile.php?id=66
wont it have a link at civstats?
http://league.civplayers.com/getFile.php?id=66
Thanks :)
So we each have 4 neigbours then
barbu1977
08-10-2009, 19:09
wont it have a link at civstats?
http://www.civstats.com/viewgame.php?gameid=1463
So, gitbliss is apparently Indiansmoke then? I'd like to encourage everyone to use their own nick for the game just to make sure that diplo can be properly identified and assigned. I don't know about everyone but for me, preferred means of communication is pm here at CDZ.
On a side note, I've been reading some silly wiki about Zara Yaqob and was actually very surprised to note that Ethiopian Church was (and apparently is) considered Orthodox. So in this game, there are a few "natural" religious groups with Wosret, Indiansmoke and azzaman also being Orthodox for a total of 4 (can Alexander also be considered as such? This would make it 5...), 4 more are Protestant Anglican (can Wang Kon also added to these???), 3 clear Catholic, and 3 Muslim. That is quite a peculiar distribution. [lol]
So, gitbliss is apparently Indiansmoke then? I'd like to encourage everyone to use their own nick for the game just to make sure that diplo can be properly identified and assigned. I don't know about everyone but for me, preferred means of communication is pm here at CDZ.
Garee with stupid. Having said that assuming we want to talk diplo with your Trojka first of all ;) whom of the Trojka do we contact?
whatahell... I was just following the earlier thread.. and only got here because Stapel gave me the corret link, once theres only a wrong one: "http://www.civduelzone.com/forum/showthread.php?t=501" missing the 8, so sorry for the delay.
And as is just saw it at noon (in brasil) i was a bit busy, so i couldnt check every thing properly.. so disconsider the question about the civstats.. :d hehehehe
About the diplo shis.. stuff, anyone can add my msnmessenger rrb3l@hotmail.com
more.. will this game works 24 hours? 'cause we use to hang up at night..
From experience the turntimer is set to 20 hours which will typically result the game moving next turn about each 24 hours if a player fails or is unable to play the turn. :)
Garee with stupid. Having said that assuming we want to talk diplo with your Trojka first of all ;) whom of the Trojka do we contact?
ProPain has not revealed himself yet. So please contact Shabba or me.
On a side note, I've been reading some silly wiki about Zara Yaqob and was actually very surprised to note that Ethiopian Church was (and apparently is) considered Orthodox. So in this game, there are a few "natural" religious groups with Wosret, Indiansmoke and azzaman also being Orthodox for a total of 4 (can Alexander also be considered as such? This would make it 5...), 4 more are Protestant Anglican (can Wang Kon also added to these???), 3 clear Catholic, and 3 Muslim. That is quite a peculiar distribution. [lol]
Wang Kon was Buddhist as far as i know. I suppose you could loosely put Alexander in the Orthodox group. Also i think you'd find an interesting spread of religions amongst the players themselves.
Thanks :)
So we each have 4 neigbours then
How do you conclude that from that file?
How do you conclude that from that file?
Put it in the public maps folder of BtS and start a game;)
General remark: I think that e-mail Shabba sent out really helped. I don't believe we never played a pitboss with so many players at CDZ before. [goodjob]
Have to say i'm really disappointed with my starting location, i've only got 8 food resources to use:rolleyes:
Is the map that unbalanced? Eight is a lot even between two cities. Ethiopian capital has no food resources at all.
barbu1977
10-10-2009, 16:42
Is the map that unbalanced? Eight is a lot even between two cities. Ethiopian capital has no food resources at all.
I just looked back at the spoiler pictures and the starting positions not unbalanced.
Nothing to see, play on!
Lt. Killer M
10-10-2009, 20:47
I have serious computer issues - caught a root kit via our work network(!). CIV runs erratic, because our idiot admin set a bios password I may not even be able to re-install windows before monday evening. Thus, I may not be able to play.
Should not be that critical yet unless somebody comes with a warrior to raze your capital. [lol] [satan]
I just looked back at the spoiler pictures and the starting positions not unbalanced.
Nothing to see, play on!
OK, good to know that. So, Robi just was trying to be sarcastic. :rolleyes:
OK, good to know that. So, Robi just was trying to be sarcastic. :rolleyes:
maybe or maybe not, what i do know is barbu spoiled my fun
Plattfuss
11-10-2009, 11:59
A question regarding diplo: Since I didnt find any restriction on it I assume that diplo is ok (like discussing borders, teaming up) etc. is that correct? Or does the out of game agreement of not having diplo victory enabled conflict with any of the above?
A question regarding diplo: Since I didnt find any restriction on it I assume that diplo is ok (like discussing borders, teaming up) etc. is that correct? Or does the out of game agreement of not having diplo victory enabled conflict with any of the above?
Yes, you can make alliances.
However, we try to act like gentlemen! So, it would be considered extremely annoying would any player break an gareement.
Which I always have found a rubbish attitude. Primary goal is to win and it is not against the rules to break a deal.
But I shouldn't express this opinion too openly, cos that goes at the expense of my reputation, which up till now is nearly smutless. I have been betrayed more often than I have betrayed.
Which I always have found a rubbish attitude. Primary goal is to win and it is not against the rules to break a deal.
But I shouldn't express this opinion too openly, cos that goes at the expense of my reputation, which up till now is nearly smutless. I have been betrayed more often than I have betrayed.
The point is not that you have to be all nice and let someone win. You can attack as many people you want in anyway you want, the main thing is if you make an agreement with someone then you stick to it no matter what 100%. If your not sure an agreement is what you want then don't make it, its that simple.
Outside of agreements you can be as sneaky and ruthless as you like and no one will complain.
My problem with that is that in previous pitboss games, the end was rather predictable and boring, because the major players left agreed not to attack each other till the rest of the game. Or not even that, just the fact that they've worked together throughout the game makes an attack against the other look like a stab in the back.
Having a long term ally is very powerful; you can't win without one or two of those. But all will want to win. Once the alliance has gotten rid of all their enemies the only ones left that can prevent you from winning are your allies. So what do you do?
Permanent peace treaties are just anti-climaxes. We might as well have allowed diplomatic victories then.
I have stated many many times that peace locks are out of the question. Imho, any deal should always have a 10 or 20 turn break-up limit. Early game long term deals are ok, but end of game permanent deals are annoying imho.
Sometimes one has to make long term deals simply because there is no choice.
Regarding long-term deals, especialy those made down the road closer to the end of the game, on this type of map Space victory is most likely. Thus, the biggest guy with most land, cities, beakers and production is expected to win that. The problem is that guy is the most powerful usually and most advanced. Huge size of the map does not help at all. I'd say that Stapel has a point but only on a Standard or smaller map sizes. Even on large size it is hard to mount a late game offensive without breaking the economy. It is easier to try to compete for Space being on second-third-fourth place and previous games clearly showed that. In RtWII Matrix really tried hard but it yielded nothing, Darkness still won by a reasonable margin of 5-6 turns and all this fuss could not slow his juggernaut even for a tiny bit. Same was true for RtWI in case of Robi's Mongol armada. It does provide some entertainment for those behind provided they have time (more than an hour a day) to move their vast armies overseas.
IMO the last game, first in Crap series, was crystal clear in terms of outcome. It was all planned 150 turns in advance and executed as planned. So, it might be somewhat less entertaining but still that game left me, for example, with a strong sense of accomplishment.
With regards to new players, I would expect for all deals to be honored to the letter. Sometimes, there is a conflict between various deals made by the same player and it cannot be avoided. It might be a good idea to resolve these conflicts via discussion and amicably for all players.
Yea, let's talk about RtW2 in this perspective. Why didn't you and Darkness fight each other? At the end you knew he was going to win. Would you have broken a deal? And if so, would you in retrospective consider that deal to be an error of yours?
We did not since there was no sense in it, and no, and no, it was not.
If I would have fought with Drakness, somebody else would have won, may be even you, and I would have certainly lost since I was quite behind in production and a couple of turns behind in research. I would have preferred Darkness to win. His game was well played and we waged a couple of very nicely executed military campaigns together in close alliance. I don't mind to let somebody else win especially if this win seems logical and well deserved IMHO. And I would not break a deal under these circumstances. I had no other contradictory deals with this particular deal. That deal was required at the time it was made for both of us. Darkness was able to wrap up Robi and I was finally able to finish it off with BCLG and to recover afterwards. That gave us both a worry-free window for building up. He was bigger and stronger but at the time the deal was made, I thought that it would have been possible for me to get more or less even with him or so I have thought probably being overly optimistic. So, the deal was quite fair and I don't regret making it. Because, TBH, if I would have had to wage wars with Darkness and BCLG at the same time, the outcome would have been very predictable. Indeed, India would have been gone from the map in no more than 10 turns.
Alright, that makes sense. I could've helped you, though. ;) I suppose IanDC couldn't have, because Robi D was in between at first.
Fact remains that if we all would've attacked Darkness we could've won. We would also all benefit from that. So why didn't we?
Oh well. Let's see how this story ends. :)
I have to agree with akots on 2 points, first its nearly impossible to win by domination on huge and large maps against other humans and second i never felt any less accomplishment by not fighting to the death. Peace has its excitement as well
Anyway given the layout of this map i think there will be less alliances formed since the areas of common interest are smaller. I'd also predict a lot less open border deals because it prevent your opponents from opposite sides teaming up.
Alright, that makes sense. I could've helped you, though. ;) ...
Fact remains that if we all would've attacked Darkness we could've won. We would also all benefit from that. So why didn't we?
...
First, I think that when the deal was made, you did not even have Astronomy. It was not end-game deal but it had indefinite peace unless given a 20-turn warning IIRC. The remainder of the game took less than 100 turns IIRC. So, you possibly could not have helped especially considering the fact that one of your vassals was supplying BCLG with troops and possibly monies, and doing that quite actively. So, no, you were not even considered to be a friend who could help, quite the opposite. [satan] Second, IIRC, you actually attacked Darkness and even razed some coastal holy city of his and did other nasty stuff to no avail. I fully supported righteous struggle of Vikings (sic!) against marauder bandit pillagers from overseas. [lol] And in the end, I actually attacked in Alaska with some troops which did not have anything better to do and you even sank quite a few of my transports and destroyers prior to us making peace and resuming co-existence. So, the second point is mute as well.
I guess that shows that human memory is short and there is nothing wrong with that but ... let's not try to misinterpret the facts and clearly separate the actual happenings from fiction here.
Same thing with Stapel in previous Crap game. While actively pursuing hostile course against Beam, there was quite a desire to enter trade and even closer cooperation with me and ynnek on Egyptian side. Was there any idea that we could have had a good relationship with nice alliance in-between the three of us on the other continent? I'm just puzzled that these things do come as a surprise. But let's not contemplate on that. Otherwise old Stapel's wound which is already healed might start bleeding anew and we lose a great player for this current game. [evil]
I do remember the game better now. ;) And also that is was perhaps the most fun pitboss I ever played! It was fun to play the part of the Big Bad Barbarian. :D Too bad I couldn't use nukes yet. I really miss nukes in these pitbosses.
When I played Risk with my family it was going up and down. Once one player was about to win everyone would team up against him just in time, then someone else threatens to win and all would fight him... Why that doesn't happen in Civ is IMO part of those unbreakable deals we make. That's why I commented on it.
By the way, your indefinite-peace-unless-given-a-20-turn -warning deal is basically a permanent peace treaty. 20 turns is long! By the time you think you might lose the space race it'll take less than 20 turns for the game to finish.
Indiansmoke
12-10-2009, 13:55
My opinion is that if people were hounorring their deals (like I am :) ) then they would think twice before making a deal and be certain that this is to their best interest.
With the deal braking happening often, people just don't think too much about the deals, they say...oh why not, if I don't like it down the road I can change it.
Now regarding late game akots told it perfectly...usually if you attack someone late in the game, just to deprive him of winning, someone else will win and usually it will not be you.
So if it is someone that you worked with during the game then why not let him win if you feel you don't have a chance of winning yourself?
Same thing with Stapel in previous Crap game. While actively pursuing hostile course against Beam, there was quite a desire to enter trade and even closer cooperation with me and ynnek on Egyptian side. Was there any idea that we could have had a good relationship with nice alliance in-between the three of us on the other continent? I'm just puzzled that these things do come as a surprise. But let's not contemplate on that. Otherwise old Stapel's wound which is already healed might start bleeding anew and we lose a great player for this current game. [evil]
I've got a few things to say about it now. At the time, I never realised that getting a diplo vic was quite a hard puzzle to solve. Not being the type to be bothered about diplo victories, I simply assumed that we had a 4 player end game, where 3 players got bored and simply declared one of them winner. That's how it felt to me, at the time. I really thought you couldn't be arsed to plan an invasion, on either island.
And it wasn't a real surprise either. If you read my spoiler, you can see I did refer to the option of Beam getting a diplo vic, but in the same sentence expressed my view that you wouldn't do that..... I only put in other words :) .
About deals: I think they shouldn't be broken ever. The very best way to acheive is, is to put limits on deals and to make realistic deals. In the other Crap game, I think Ynnek got split up in two contradicting deals. Unintentional, maybe unexpected, but I think we all should put a lot of effort in avoiding those situations.
This also applies to "peace locks". Being locked up in strong or permanent deals, which result in an end game where the majority of players can do nothing but watching 2 players racing for space. I guess you all know I prefer the sword over the rocket :D .
I also dislike spreading false info. Pretending to argue over the details of a future deal, stalling a bit, whilst building up a force is, IMHO, not the way to go in civ. Try the diplomacy board game for this kind of subterfuge! I realise that not all of us will garee on this!
socralynnek
12-10-2009, 14:55
In the other Crap game, I think Ynnek got split up in two contradicting deals. Unintentional, maybe unexpected, but I think we all should put a lot of effort in avoiding those situations.
Yeah, just to say to the ones that weren't in the game: Don't be surprised if there are some surrounding conditions if you make a peace deal with me, s.t. that such situations are solved before they might occur...
In short: I had a peace deal with Civ A and an alliance with Civ B. Civ A gave Civ B a warning and eventually declared war on Civ B.
So I had a peace deal with Civ A and ha d to help my ally Civ B. So, not possible to do both at the same time.
( So, expect if you make a peace deal with me, then that I will exclude the case where you declare war on an ally of mine )
In any other case I sticked to my deals.
BTW, I prefer peace deals over alliances, but in that case, we had one very very strong neighbor who we had to keep in check.
Yeah, just to say to the ones that weren't in the game: Don't be surprised if there are some surrounding conditions if you make a peace deal with me, s.t. that such situations are solved before they might occur...
In short: I had a peace deal with Civ A and an alliance with Civ B. Civ A gave Civ B a warning and eventually declared war on Civ B.
So I had a peace deal with Civ A and ha d to help my ally Civ B. So, not possible to do both at the same time.
( So, expect if you make a peace deal with me, then that I will exclude the case where you declare war on an ally of mine )
In any other case I sticked to my deals.
BTW, I prefer peace deals over alliances, but in that case, we had one very very strong neighbor who we had to keep in check.
Please understand I don not recall all details of this situation.
But I think one should not make a peace deal with CIV A, if one has already promised CIV B that he can count on assistance when he (CIV B) gets attacked by CIV A. Even when you think it is unlikely that CIV A will attack CIV B.
IIRC, you handled the situation pretty well at the time.
I do remember the game better now. ;) And also that is was perhaps the most fun pitboss I ever played! It was fun to play the part of the Big Bad Barbarian. :D Too bad I couldn't use nukes yet. I really miss nukes in these pitbosses.
When I played Risk with my family it was going up and down. Once one player was about to win everyone would team up against him just in time, then someone else threatens to win and all would fight him... Why that doesn't happen in Civ is IMO part of those unbreakable deals we make. That's why I commented on it.
By the way, your indefinite-peace-unless-given-a-20-turn -warning deal is basically a permanent peace treaty. 20 turns is long! By the time you think you might lose the space race it'll take less than 20 turns for the game to finish.
The reason we make these deals is that there is less to gain from fighting in some circumstances. I know in CDZ Earth 1 akots and myself made a game long deal because attaking each other was utterly pointless. We both had 20+ cities with room for more and a very long border. The amount of units that would have been needed to defend from each other would have been a huge drain where as gain of some extra cities were minimal. I knew going into the deal i was running the risk of akots beating me to the spaceship launch without me being able to do a thing about it but on the balance of things my chances of winning were higher then if we were battling. So why choose war when peace is the better option?
As it was i won beating akots and BCLG launches by a few turns and psycho stapels launch of a very different kind by a turn (what is it with people playing the aztecs need for violence on our earth maps) so from my point of view it was a very exciting if mostly bloodless finish.
The main problem (as you see it) for a lack of wars is that for the most part our games have big maps without many players leaving people vast areas to build all the cities they need without having to fight anyone, that why you get long term deals in the first place. If you really want a war filled game start one with a very crowded map, say 8 people on a small map. And if you think us CDZers would still be too nice to attack each other turn off all victories except conquest and domination.
... When I played Risk with my family it was going up and down. Once one player was about to win everyone would team up against him just in time, then someone else threatens to win and all would fight him...
Well, we are not your family, however much we would like to be. No pun intended. This essentially spells it out IMO.
As it was i won beating akots and BCLG launches by a few turns and psycho Stapel's launch of a very different kind by a turn (what is it with people playing the aztecs need for violence on our earth maps) so from my point of view it was a very exciting if mostly bloodless finish.
That game! I had North America, Beam had South America, and both of us had no chance at all. We were behind by default and all we could possibly do is act from frustration and see if we could do some damage to anyone.
I guess Matrix had a bit of the same in RtW2
And BTW, there hardly is a point in having an aggresive leader and being peaceful, right?
That game! I had North America, Beam had South America, and both of us had no chance at all. We were behind by default and all we could possibly do is act from frustration and see if we could do some damage to anyone.
I guess Matrix had a bit of the same in RtW2
And BTW, there hardly is a point in having an aggresive leader and being peaceful, right?
Yeah, we had only contact / trade routes with each other until Optics / Astro. Iirc my techrate was up by a factor 4 after I made contact with the Old World and established trade routes.
Then Stapel attacks BCLG, BCLG builds a retaliation force, while it is sailing hears a rumour from Shabba I was building lots of cannons (while I did not even have Steel [:O] ) and decides to attack me instead. Then Stapel gifted all units he had build to me and I finally managed to fight BCLG out. Apart from having to cut all jungle in the Amazon bassin which made me really look bad from an ecologocal PoV ;) that was about my game.
A good deal demands a good interpretation of the actual in game situation as well as a minimum clarevoyance.
betrayl or being faithful is just a game choice, and it sounds fine to me, so im always prepared to deal with traitors, and civ allows we keep an eye on the cat while another one is on the fish... keepn spies on friends is aways a good thing to avoid suprise deal breaking..
I think once its phisically possible, one should know that when hes about win, and his fella is not that far, theres a eminent deal breaking.
Darkness
13-10-2009, 10:02
If I would have fought with Drakness, somebody else would have won, may be even you, and I would have certainly lost since I was quite behind in production and a couple of turns behind in research. I would have preferred Darkness to win. His game was well played and we waged a couple of very nicely executed military campaigns together in close alliance. I don't mind to let somebody else win especially if this win seems logical and well deserved IMHO. And I would not break a deal under these circumstances. I had no other contradictory deals with this particular deal. That deal was required at the time it was made for both of us. Darkness was able to wrap up Robi and I was finally able to finish it off with BCLG and to recover afterwards. That gave us both a worry-free window for building up. He was bigger and stronger but at the time the deal was made, I thought that it would have been possible for me to get more or less even with him or so I have thought probably being overly optimistic. So, the deal was quite fair and I don't regret making it. Because, TBH, if I would have had to wage wars with Darkness and BCLG at the same time, the outcome would have been very predictable. Indeed, India would have been gone from the map in no more than 10 turns.
Thanks for the kind words akots. :)
I completely agree with your assessment of the situation. War between the two of us at the end of RTW2 would not have benefitted either of us, it would only have benefitted a third party. And to break a deal for the benefit of a third party makes no sense to me. Our deal was very beneficial to the both of us I think. Together we crushed Russia in the beginning, and during the middle part of the game the deal provided us with a secure partner that allowed the allocation of resources to the elimination of other neighbours (China for you and Rome for me). In the late game any struggle between us was useless (IMHO) because such a struggle would have completely drained the victors resources allowing a third party to win by space. The only option remaining was to team up with a lot of other partners to eliminate either India of the Vikings. IIRC Matrix even offered/suggested this to me, but I saw little use for it. I was more interested in keeping the homeland safe and stable for the spaceship win and getting revenge against the Aztec barbarians (who also played a very good game, IMHO, especially considering the relative isolation of the starting location)... ;)
Just for the record: I never tried to argue that long term deals are wrong! I simply would like to address that there are a few risks attached to it. Mostly that a permanent alliance can lock the game.
Dudes, you are all invited at my place:
http://www.civduelzone.com/forum/showthread.php?p=124655#post124655
Cannot d/l the script from the league server. Can please somebody who has it put it here as attachment? Or is the file too big? Is there this script file at CFC?
Indiansmoke
15-10-2009, 09:53
Cannot d/l the script from the league server. Can please somebody who has it put it here as attachment? Or is the file too big? Is there this script file at CFC?
The league site is down that is why you cannot download...try later.
Indiansmoke
15-10-2009, 09:54
At least I am not the only one who is having no luck with huts!
At least I am not the only one who is having no luck with huts!
I felt a bit unlucky too. But hey, at least no barbs!
At least I am not the only one who is having no luck with huts!
I assume your refering to the fact some people seem to have gotten techs from their huts, then i'm one of the unlucky ones too.
Edit- And i see Beams gone all religious on us :)
What's unlucky if there aren't any barbarians? I just got money.
Indiansmoke
15-10-2009, 14:33
What's unlucky if there aren't any barbarians? I just got money.
Unlucky is maps, units, promos and low cash
somewhat lucky is high gold
Super lucky is tech
In this format, that you start with a worker and 2 settlers, getting an early tech is much more valuable than usually, since you already have worker and alot of us have nothing to do with him since we don't have anything in the starting techs.
barbu1977
15-10-2009, 14:59
Cannot d/l the script from the league server. Can please somebody who has it put it here as attachment? Or is the file too big? Is there this script file at CFC?
I'll post it here tonight.
And i see Beams gone all religious on us :)
All your temple are belong to us. [evil]
barbu1977
16-10-2009, 04:35
Cannot d/l the script from the league server. Can please somebody who has it put it here as attachment? Or is the file too big? Is there this script file at CFC?
Here it is. Just remove the .PDF extension.
Many thanks! That was very nice of you.
I have played a game with the grid on a huge map. My first impression is that the map we use for this game is a bit different..... Is the CmC map really toroidal?
barbu1977
20-10-2009, 15:19
I have played a game with the grid on a huge map. My first impression is that the map we use for this game is a bit different..... Is the CmC map really toroidal?
It should be!
I'll check tonight.
I don't think that world wrap affects the script, beyond adding ice to to the poles.
Indiansmoke
21-10-2009, 09:58
I don't think that world wrap affects the script, beyond adding ice to to the poles.
It has a HUGE effect on this script completely changing the game.
barbu1977
21-10-2009, 14:46
The world is indeed toroïdal.
It has a HUGE effect on this script completely changing the game.
No, what I mean is that the map is almost exactly the same regardless of the world wrap.
I'm not talking about the effects on gameplay.
Indiansmoke
22-10-2009, 12:01
No, what I mean is that the map is almost exactly the same regardless of the world wrap.
I'm not talking about the effects on gameplay.
This is the difference the wrap makes
Flat wrap
x - x - x - x
| | | |
x - x - x - x
I I I I
x - x - x - x
Cylindrical wrap
- x - x - x - x -
I I I I
- x - x - x - x -
I I I I
- x - x - x - x -
Toroidal wrap
I I I I
- x - x - x - x -
I I I I
- x - x - x - x -
I I I I
- x - x - x - x -
I I I I
With flat wrap the corner guy (x in bold) has 2 neighbours
With cylindrical the same guy has 3
and with toroidal he has 4.
Neighbours are in Red in each situation.
So toroidal wrap makes all 16 players have the same number of neighbours...flat wrap is the most unbalanced as corner guys will have 2 fronts and middle guys will have 4 fronts.
Edit: for some reason the I's will not stay under X's but assume each Is under each X.
1. In order to give each character the same horizontal space, use the font Courier New.
2. Website normally don't allow multiple spaces used after each other. When building a website, use " " instead of " ", but that doesn't work on a forum post. Hence the points.
Flat wrap
x - x - x - X
| . | . | . |
x - x - x - x
| . | . | . |
x - x - x - x
| . | . | . |
x - x - x - x
Cylindrical wrap
- x - x - x - X -
. | . | . | . | .
- x - x - x - x -
. | . | . | . | .
- x - x - x - x -
. | . | . | . | .
- x - x - x - x -
Toroïdal wrap
. | . | . | . | .
- x - x - x - X -
. | . | . | . | .
- x - x - x - x -
. | . | . | . | .
- x - x - x - x -
. | . | . | . | .
- x - x - x - x -
. | . | . | . | .
;)
barbu1977
22-10-2009, 15:09
IICR, the [ Code ] tag can also take care of the problem:
Flat wrap
x - x - x - X
| | | |
x - x - x - x
| | | |
x - x - x - x
| | | |
x - x - x - x
Cylindrical wrap
- x - x - x - X -
| | | |
- x - x - x - x -
| | | |
- x - x - x - x -
| | | |
- x - x - x - x -
Toroïdal wrap
| | | |
- x - x - x - X -
| | | |
- x - x - x - x -
| | | |
- x - x - x - x -
| | | |
- x - x - x - x -
| | | |
Well either way i've made first contact :)
I pity the poor guy how found me;)
This is the difference the wrap makes
Flat wrap
x - x - x - x
| | | |
x - x - x - x
I I I I
x - x - x - x
Cylindrical wrap
- x - x - x - x -
I I I I
- x - x - x - x -
I I I I
- x - x - x - x -
Toroidal wrap
I I I I
- x - x - x - x -
I I I I
- x - x - x - x -
I I I I
- x - x - x - x -
I I I I
With flat wrap the corner guy (x in bold) has 2 neighbours
With cylindrical the same guy has 3
and with toroidal he has 4.
Neighbours are in Red in each situation.
So toroidal wrap makes all 16 players have the same number of neighbours...flat wrap is the most unbalanced as corner guys will have 2 fronts and middle guys will have 4 fronts.
Edit: for some reason the I's will not stay under X's but assume each Is under each X.
I know that. That was never what I was talking about. The map is always in the exact same style, regardless of the world wrap. Running the script on toroidal will generate a map that is identical to one on flat, the difference being those on the edge of the map have less neighbours because of the wrap. Apart from that, they're practically the exact same map.
Grouphug please: :grouphug: [grouphug]
No grouphug smiley?
@barbu1977: With the code-tag you can't use colours.
@Stapel: Here are two...
http://www.straland.com/images/smilies/teamspirit.gif
and
http://www.straland.com/images/smilies/group.gif
Got a crashed process on the server and rebooting it. Will be back in half an hour or so.
http://www.civduelzone.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=318&d=1256319296
This is the server (actually an old laptop ;) ) just after reboot. The CPU peak happened when I logged into the game from another computer. Briefly after that Gitbliss and IanDC logged in, played and logged out.
Apperently the number of players > 1 logged into the game does not seem to affect CPU usage and mem usage is pretty low. So I am pretty optimistic the gear can survive the late game. :)
Am I the only one with no copper or iron within the area around my starting position or is this one of the challenges our great creator barbu[worship] has set us?
socralynnek
04-11-2009, 08:51
At least it seems that your tech rate or hut luck is quite good...Seeing Iron...That might cost some more turns...
At least it seems that your tech rate or hut luck is quite good...Seeing Iron...That might cost some more turns...
That's what I was thinking too!
I also noticed that the map is quite peculiar. And why would you need copper or iron that early on this map?
There's... things... about this map that don't seem particularly balanced.
Oh, there is no perfect balance ever unless one plays mirror maps. IMO, we should trust in our mapmaker. Considering complete lack of balance in RtW series games and Texas Holdem game played on completely random map, this one should be as close as it gets and minor deviations from perfect balance might be digested with due effort.
Shabbaman
05-11-2009, 10:43
Seeing Iron...That might cost some more turns...
Maybe he's just screwing with you ;)
I was wondering, is it possible for the mapmaker to edit savegames? And if so, would we want to if we'd discover a serious flaw early in the game?
Maybe he's just screwing with you ;)
I was wondering, is it possible for the mapmaker to edit savegames? And if so, would we want to if we'd discover a serious flaw early in the game?
First of all, I trust the map is balanced, possibly surprising, but balanced nontheless.
And if one or two players appear to be unjustly treated by their surroundings, well....., tough luck then.......
Shabbaman
05-11-2009, 13:56
I agree with you completely. But there's always the slightest possibility that the mapmaker makes a mistake. For instance: forgetting to put copper near a starting location. I have no idea how barbu made the map.
Personally I wouldn't really mind if the map is altered during the game, if some stupid oversight unbalances the game. I do think that it's very likely that a map will be somewhat unbalanced anyway, and that luck with the proper resources near your starting location is a major factor in civ games.
Oh, there is no perfect balance ever unless one plays mirror maps. IMO, we should trust in our mapmaker. Considering complete lack of balance in RtW series games and Texas Holdem game played on completely random map, this one should be as close as it gets and minor deviations from perfect balance might be digested with due effort.
Well, I'm going to trust the map maker until proved otherwise.
barbu1977
05-11-2009, 15:46
There is people I like here and people I don't.
I just tool this opportunity to take revenge on some. [evil]
Now I quit.
Darkness
05-11-2009, 15:53
There is people I like here and people I don't.
I just tool this opportunity to take revenge on some. [evil]
Now I quit.
So, basically all players who ever backstabbed (or beat ;) ) you in a multiplayer game are completely without strategic resources? I like it already! :D
I'll be watching for the riots to start... [evil]
;)
barbu1977
05-11-2009, 16:00
There is people I like here and people I don't.
I just tool this opportunity to take revenge on some. [evil]
Now I quit.
Wow, my first troll post. And it just does not feel right.
Seriously, if any of you have concerns with some aspect of your starting position, PM me or write in your spoilers and I'll see into it. Making sure 16 players have a equal shot at winning is not easy.
As for the map, in retrospect, I should have made it on a large map rather than a huge one. I think it would have been more fun for you guys to play in.
A tiny OCC would also have been fun! We could try it in the next pitboss.
Finaly thanks to Stapel, Akots and Robi D for keeping me entertain with spoilers. For the rest of you: what are you waiting for?
Oh, there is no perfect balance ever unless one plays mirror maps. IMO, we should trust in our mapmaker. Considering complete lack of balance in RtW series games and Texas Holdem game played on completely random map, this one should be as close as it gets and minor deviations from perfect balance might be digested with due effort.
I disgaree! Mine was perfect [groucho]
Maybe he's just screwing with you ;)
Maybe, maybe not;)
For all you know there is copper and iron on just about every hill and i'm just saying there is none so no one else will be in a rush to research it giving me an advantage.
Then again maybe i wrote the above to make you think you need to reseach it so i'll have more chance of getting some wonders from the upper half of the tree.
But then maybe i was just trying to stir up some debate in the hope of getting some information from all your reactions
Or maybe it was all just complete nonsense to get some discussions going on what has been a quiet thread of late.
Then again maybe its none of the above:p
Finaly thanks to Stapel, Akots and Robi D for keeping me entertain with spoilers. For the rest of you: what are you waiting for?
And thank you for entertaining me by not posting here right away:)
Maybe, maybe not;)
... Then again maybe its none of the above:p
The ultimate goal is to increase the postcount.
[spam]
The ultimate goal is to increase the postcount.
[spam]
akots has my number:D
[spam]
Do all of you have a dozen uranium resources nearby?
Do all of you have a dozen uranium resources nearby?
No, but i think i can make do with 9
socralynnek
06-11-2009, 15:14
Do all of you have a dozen uranium resources nearby?
I give you two Hit Singles for one of your sources!
Lt. Killer M
10-11-2009, 11:19
I have a problem: our IT department needs several days(!) to install windows. AARGH! Thus
I need a stand-in for at least two weeks :(
socralynnek
10-11-2009, 11:37
I have a problem: our IT department needs several days(!) to install windows. AARGH! Thus
And how many days do they need until it works again?
Lt. Killer M
10-11-2009, 11:50
And how many days do they need until it works again?
at least until thursday next week, I guess, more probably for two full weeks.
socralynnek
10-11-2009, 15:11
at least until thursday next week, I guess, more probably for two full weeks.
My post wasn't meant a s a serious question. It was just a little MS Windows rant (or rant about your IT Department..or both...)
barbu1977
14-11-2009, 23:19
At the request of some players, I've took a look at the map luxury balance.
The map is indeed very unbalanced on that part and that could be quite unfair to some.
I see the following options:
A- Disallow any trade involving a Lux.
B- Pause the game and edit the map giving a better resource distribution.
C- Let the game go on.
My choice would be for A, I'd say it is quite fair after taking a second look at the map. For B, I have no idea on how to fix a map but I could do it if it is the general opinion. As for C, I don't think that, considering so many balance elsewhere that this unbalance is fair.
IMO, A would not be a right option. B is not possible unfortunately unless we find a skilled programmer who can hack the save. However, it has a lot of repercussions and essentially screws the game. I'd vote for C despite being essentially at a huge disadvantage regarding luxuries.
Since i have no idea about the other areas of the map its hard to vote.
I would ask is the unbalance due to players having mutiple luxs of the same type or that they have multiple types of luxs
The former is easily solved by option A, the latter is more complicated. I believe its possible to edit the map midgame however MP games to easily develop bugs so it would need a lot of intense work to see if it can be done safely. Neither A or C would be particularly satisfactory
I'd say: go on.
With the one lux I have, that shouldn't benefit me...
No luxury in my empire. http://www.straland.com/images/smilies/shakehead.gif I guess I'll have to subsidize prostitution to compensate.
But I also vote to play on. The other two are too much hassle.
socralynnek
15-11-2009, 14:32
I vote for option D: Everyone immediately declares war at all civs which have hooked up more than 1 lux resource...;-)
I don't mind. If it can't be safely done editing, then we can just play on, I guess.
Plattfuss
15-11-2009, 19:32
Well, if I understand Barbu correctly he feels that going on with the current rules and lux distribution will make starts imbalanced and is unfair to some players. So if all it needs to make the map more balanced and fair to everybody is stop trading lux I think thats what we should do.
"A", please.
Please if you can explain how having one luxury or no luxuries would make the game more fair in case of A variant? I'm quite puzzled by that and it seems that at least one owner of multiple luxuries can be thus identified. [;)]
... it would need a lot of intense work to see if it can be done safely. ...
Unfortunately, all experience tells that it cannot be done safely.
Unfortunately, all experience tells that it cannot be done safely.
I argee with that having seen it fail before hence why i said it would require a lot of testing with success.
From the discussion so far it seems people either have one or none lux. If that's the case then option A is pointless since no one would offer to trade their only luxury anyway. So i guess that leaves option C. People with no lux can go with option D, which is to attack someone who has a lux;)
Even if everyone has 1 resource each, the problem remains that some luxuries are better than others. Having only 1 leader with Ivory or Gems can really knock the game out of balance, whereas having only 1 leader with Spices/Silk/Dyes/Sugar/Whale is a lot less unbalanced.
Shabbaman
16-11-2009, 10:07
But then again, it's not that weird that ivory isn't universally available. Anyway, I can't really assess what resources everybody has (though it seems I'm the only one with aluminium, heh) so I leave it up to the mapmaker. It's his map. I'm not opposed to editing, but I wouldn't know how to do it.
Double move by DanDRidge.
He missed his turn last turn, so I moved anyway and took his city and then he's moved 2nd and first again. Btw I would have probably taken the city anyway and he'll surely re-take it even without the double move, but that's not the point.
If you miss a turn, you miss a turn!! doesn't mean you get to 'catch up' later by doing a double move!
And stupid no city razing. Who's idea was that? :mad:
Sorry I'm so late to this conversation, I'd subscribed to the wrong thread, duh.
If we didn't have 'no city razing' on it would be a lot easier to gang up on civs that have stretched ahead to a strong lead due to being lucky with their start location. But alas that option is on (boo!!) meaning any advantages from the map will be even harder to rectify! The way a grid works it also makes it harder to reach super-civs to beat up on them.
Well, if I understand Barbu correctly he feels that going on with the current rules and lux distribution will make starts imbalanced and is unfair to some players. So if all it needs to make the map more balanced and fair to everybody is stop trading lux I think thats what we should do.
"A", please.
From the land I've seen so far starting locations are certainly NOT even!!
Unlucky is maps, units, promos and low cash
somewhat lucky is high gold
Super lucky is techStarting with hunting and a scout does help but I've got to admit my huts have been nice. Although having said that, I'd gladly swap my civ with someone who has decent food resources and a non-calendar happy resource!
One trick of this game is to gang up against those ahead, instead of cowardly allying with them (thus losing). I still have a naïve idea that one day my fellow CDZ-players will learn this lesson, which would make the 'heads up' less deterministic.
Concerning the double move: how long are you at war with each other? Because double moves are allowed, unless combined with a declaration of war.
Dandridge
16-11-2009, 16:45
Double move by DanDRidge.
He missed his turn last turn, so I moved anyway and took his city and then he's moved 2nd and first again. Btw I would have probably taken the city anyway and he'll surely re-take it even without the double move, but that's not the point.
If you miss a turn, you miss a turn!! doesn't mean you get to 'catch up' later by doing a double move!
And stupid no city razing. Who's idea was that? :mad:
Please, read the rules before accusing (see the first post of this thread).
And it was really you who double moved :), but I didn't bother to complain, since your DM didn't matter to me. Anyway since you had declared on me turn 2440 BC, you should have let me 18 hours time to make my move on turn 2400 BC. But you DM'd after 3 hours had passed (starting a war with a DM). But as I said it was meaningless.
Double move by DanDRidge.
Oh, how fucking unexpected. [lol]
See
http://www.civduelzone.com/forum/showpost.php?p=110821&postcount=112
and some subsequent discussion.
And who decides what is relevant and important?
No luxury in my empire. http://www.straland.com/images/smilies/shakehead.gif I guess I'll have to subsidize prostitution to compensate.
But I also vote to play on. The other two are too much hassle.
I have some knowledge of your empire and you have TWO (different) luxuaries!
Double move by DanDRidge.
He missed his turn last turn, so I moved anyway and took his city and then he's moved 2nd and first again. Btw I would have probably taken the city anyway and he'll surely re-take it even without the double move, but that's not the point.
If you miss a turn, you miss a turn!! doesn't mean you get to 'catch up' later by doing a double move!
Read the rules, before you accuse, man! What you describe here, is perfectly ok.
The doublemove rule in this game:
Doublemoves are allowed in all cases except when accompanied by a declaration of war. In that case the declaring player is not allowed any offensive action against declared player until either:
a) 18 hours after end of the turn where war is declared.
b) the declared player logs in after end of the turn where war is declared.
The declaration of war itself still allows units of the declaring player offensive actions against the declared player in the turn where war is declared.
And stupid no city razing. Who's idea was that? :mad:
We've discussed that endlessly. In the first CtC game I found out the hard way too. Once used to the idea, I could see the fun of it. It provides major change in strategy and tactics.
But I feel with you if you didn't realise and see your idea go up in smoke.
I have some knowledge of your empire and you have TWO (different) luxuaries!
Oh, now Matrix is trying to play games in the open thread. May be he just did not explore the whole hub of his. And good to know you are neighbors. [;)]
... Having only 1 leader with Ivory or Gems can really knock the game out of balance, whereas having only 1 leader with Spices/Silk/Dyes/Sugar/Whale is a lot less unbalanced.
How does this unbalances, I don't see. It would be nice if everyone has all the luxuries? It would be nice if everyone has nothing? The main problem as I see it that to get that additional luxuries you have either to negotiate to trade them for something (gold or resource) or to wage a war and get them to yourself. The way of this map does not allow early trades between players but trades might be possible later in the game. That is the problem with all huge maps. But it is quite obvious IMO, a lot of ppl would have to run Monarchy on this map for the most of the game and build some military police units. Or research early Drama and run some luxury slider. Religions could be helpful as well but alas, only few will get them and they won't spread easily on this type of map. So, if the Crap wants to revolt, it will be Cut. Looks OK for me with all role playing.
Another problem is horrendous distance between the civs and long time needed for any action to take place yet somehow, we can already see an early war being waged in Kaleb's and DanRidge's domains. So even this is not an obstacle if you really want to [hammer]. But map is [evil] and it is fine IMO. Unless the balance is also crooked for strategic resources especially for Industrial/Modern Age (coal, aluminum, uranium, oil). Then we are royally screwed.
Barbu, can you please confirm that that balance (resources) is more or less OK please. If it is, I don't see much problem with all that luxury stuff. Yes, somebody will grow big cities and build a lot of wonders at low upkeep. How does this help to win the game?
... Concerning the double move: how long are you at war with each other? Because double moves are allowed, unless combined with a declaration of war.
Usually, in case of war, two gentlemen can [hammer] upon each other by making agreements about who moves first and who moves second to avoid intentional double moves. I've made a few in all PB games and never really had a problem with DM and IIRC, nobody usually had a DM issue.
barbu1977
16-11-2009, 20:01
Ok, no more mind games.
Here is the break down.
- 2 players have no lux
- Most players have 1-2 different lux, but in very little quantity (only 1 but sometimes 2 of each resource)
- 4 players have 2 different resources but 1 resource in large quantity.
Those 4 players, with Lux to Lux trades could easily play with more than 6 Lux where the rest of the pack will be stuck with 0-2 Lux.
This is the reason why I promote the no Lux deal limiting players to 0-2 Lux. Since the rest of the ressources are quite balanced, there is no reasons for the 4 players to trade Lux for Food or strategic ressources to the others.
If others prefer to play on, it's your game, not mine.
barbu1977
16-11-2009, 20:05
resources especially for Industrial/Modern Age (coal, aluminum, uranium, oil). Then we are royally screwed.
Barbu, can you please confirm that that balance (resources) is more or less OK please.
I'll double check that tonight.
I'm not sure Uraniun needs to be balanced but I'll make sure the others are.
Read the rules, before you accuse, man! What you describe here, is perfectly ok.
The doublemove rule in this game:
Doublemoves are allowed in all cases except when accompanied by a declaration of war. In that case the declaring player is not allowed any offensive action against declared player until either:
a) 18 hours after end of the turn where war is declared.
b) the declared player logs in after end of the turn where war is declared.
The declaration of war itself still allows units of the declaring player offensive actions against the declared player in the turn where war is declared.
We've discussed that endlessly. In the first CtC game I found out the hard way too. Once used to the idea, I could see the fun of it. It provides major change in strategy and tactics.
But I feel with you if you didn't realise and see your idea go up in smoke.
Argh. Oops - ok, well I was right in accusing of a double move but it's a legal double move. at least I got some gold :o
Still think no city razing is poo. I just looove sneaking up on people :D
barbu1977
17-11-2009, 01:49
I'll double check that tonight.
I'm not sure Uraniun needs to be balanced but I'll make sure the others are.
:(
OK, You all have at least 3/4 of the IA resources.
I can make a new map if you like.
How does this unbalances, I don't see. It would be nice if everyone has all the luxuries? It would be nice if everyone has nothing? The main problem as I see it that to get that additional luxuries you have either to negotiate to trade them for something (gold or resource) or to wage a war and get them to yourself. The way of this map does not allow early trades between players but trades might be possible later in the game. That is the problem with all huge maps. But it is quite obvious IMO, a lot of ppl would have to run Monarchy on this map for the most of the game and build some military police units. Or research early Drama and run some luxury slider. Religions could be helpful as well but alas, only few will get them and they won't spread easily on this type of map. So, if the Crap wants to revolt, it will be Cut. Looks OK for me with all role playing.
1 civ having all the ivory/gems/gold/silver/furs gives 2 major advantages. The first is an extra :) with Mining/Hunting, allowing them to delay Monarchy for longer than everyone else (especially if they're charismatic or get a religion). The second, and more important IMO, is that they all have great benefits that are irrelevant to them being luxuries. Ivory gives War Elephants, the equal strongest (with the Praet) unit available before Macemen. Gems, Gold, Silver and Furs give large commerce boosts to the civ(s) that have them as soon as they get a worker out. Whereas by the time Calendar rolls around, the tile yields from Silk/Dyes/Spices are easily matched.
Ok, no more mind games.
Fine just suck all the fun out of the game;)
:(
OK, You all have at least 3/4 of the IA resources.
I can make a new map if you like.
Really i don't see a problem, so the map isn't perfectly balanced. Some have more luxuries, some have less. Some have more food, some have less. You adjust your strategy accordingly to maxmise the benefit of resources you have. You also have the oppertunity through diplomacy to change the balance of events since your dealing with people and not the idiotic AI.
IMO the best players knuckle down and try to work out the best way to overcome the problems facing them, the other players just complain about them
1 civ having all the ivory/gems/gold/silver/furs gives 2 major advantages. The first is an extra :) with Mining/Hunting, allowing them to delay Monarchy for longer than everyone else (especially if they're charismatic or get a religion). The second, and more important IMO, is that they all have great benefits that are irrelevant to them being luxuries. Ivory gives War Elephants, the equal strongest (with the Praet) unit available before Macemen. Gems, Gold, Silver and Furs give large commerce boosts to the civ(s) that have them as soon as they get a worker out. Whereas by the time Calendar rolls around, the tile yields from Silk/Dyes/Spices are easily matched.
Look, I'm not advocating anything here. Believe in what you wish. If you'd prefer a mirror map, that should have been discussed before the start of the game. Previous game, Cut the Crap, had been played on a map where everyone had almost everything. It was fun. Now, it is a different game. Whether it is fun or not, would be determined on how the player plays. At least, we all have general idea on what the situation is.
OK, You all have at least 3/4 of the IA resources.
Good enough and fair IMO.
I can make a new map if you like.
We are a bit too far into the game for that IMO.
Shabbaman
17-11-2009, 09:24
The world maps weren't balanced either, but those games still were a lot of fun.
I say let's play on, I'll get wiped out anyway :p
Plattfuss
18-11-2009, 04:43
Can we have a vote on the 3 options? It looks like most people just want to go on. A vote could help to clear things up and end the discussion.
Darkness
18-11-2009, 10:08
Can we have a vote on the 3 options? It looks like most people just want to go on. A vote could help to clear things up and end the discussion.
Is a vote really needed? If you wanted a completely balanced game you should've had Barbu make a balanced mirror map... This one is moderately balanced, which seems a big improvement over the Rule-the-World games (in terms of balance, I mean). There some players only had space for 4 cities (on a huge map), like Beam and myself. And look how that turned out in RTW2 (well, for me anyway... :) )...
Thats easy to solve.
The ones who have surplus resources shall share them, with me of course, receiving back only my indiference, under the penalty of death, humilhation, decaptation, and other "tions"...
The other resourcers I let you to fight for, while i watch, sitting in my emperial golden throne.
:P
Can we have a vote on the 3 options? It looks like most people just want to go on. A vote could help to clear things up and end the discussion.
We will simply continue, I guess.
We will simply continue, I guess.
I'm with stupid. :)
Btw Stapel let's celebrate your 3000th post on CDZ! Though your avatar has gone down the drain. :(
Plattfuss
19-11-2009, 04:16
We will simply continue, I guess.
ok, finally a challenge :)
We will simply continue, I guess.
I don't see any reasonable alternatives to just continuing on with the game.
Indiansmoke
19-11-2009, 12:22
I think this map is about as close as you can get to a relativelly balanced map without it being mirror or equal map.
Of course if Bardu had given at least one good luxury to the 2 people that have no luxuries things would be even better.
Industrial resources are less important as by that stage you should be in a position to go to war and take over the land you need....however I must say that the idea of turning all connecting land between players to desert is a bit weird (since if the land was not desert you could expand towards opponent and take the luxuries by force...now that is very difficult due to long desert strips).
socralynnek
19-11-2009, 12:28
Well in the end, I can only give a reasonable guess after the game is done...
I have no luxuries (believe me or not...), but I hope that maybe the rest of my land is better than the average. Then it is ok.
I mean, we don't need a perfectly balanced map. We don't have pefectly balanced Civs either. I guess, the map is probably balanced enough to give each player a reasonable chance to win.
Plattfuss
20-11-2009, 02:48
... I guess, the map is probably balanced enough to give each player a reasonable chance to win.
I doubt this since Barbu himself said the game is not balanced and thus proposed to exclude lux trading. Who would know better than he?
I doubt this since Barbu himself said the game is not balanced and thus proposed to exclude lux trading. Who would know better than he?
There is a difference between reasonable and exact. Personally i'm happy with a no lux trade rule, it doesn't affect me. If we allow lux trading then i wont be that bothered either.
It's only 4 players that have that lux advantage. On the other hand those 4 players might find themeselves with bigger targets on their backs since lux stavered players surrounding them would see an oppertunity to get some luxs off them, I'd view that as a disadvantage.
barbu1977
20-11-2009, 04:39
I doubt this since Barbu himself said the game is not balanced and thus proposed to exclude lux trading. Who would know better than he?
I would not go that far. I think I explained why I think there is an unbalance about lux . You can all judge if this unbalance needs to be addressed.
I also said that I think the remaining of the map is, I think, balanced.
Personally I still think excluding that excluding lux trade is the best way for all of you to go. But I'm only the mapmaker, not the referee.
Plattfuss
20-11-2009, 06:05
... Personally I still think excluding that excluding lux trade is the best way for all of you to go. ...
Thats what I meant. Since it is just a very tiny change in rules and you recommend it I am a bit surprised nobody wants to go that route. But anyhow, lets see how it works out. Maybe my judgement on the advantage lux will give is wrong.
I don't really see how banning lux trades would help anything, to be honest.
Darkness
20-11-2009, 08:58
I don't really see how banning lux trades would help anything, to be honest.
Me neither, actually. That still would leave some players with more luxuries than others, hence the problem remains.
However, is it really a problem? Must the map be completely balanced? Because if you feel this should be, then you made a mistake before you started this game. Then you should've started this debate before the start of the game and you should've told the mapmaker to balance everything.
Me neither, actually. That still would leave some players with more luxuries than others, hence the problem remains.
However, is it really a problem? Must the map be completely balanced? Because if you feel this should be, then you made a mistake before you started this game. Then you should've started this debate before the start of the game and you should've told the mapmaker to balance everything.
I don't really find it to be an issue, but I've always though the point of having a map maker was to make sure the map was balanced, so when the map maker said it was unbalanced I was a bit confused.
Shabbaman
20-11-2009, 16:05
Banning (excess) luxury trade is something with a minor effect on the game, but it does help making the situation worse than it is. It doesn't really hurt the game either, so I'm for it.
Indiansmoke
20-11-2009, 16:41
Banning (excess) luxury trade is something with a minor effect on the game, but it does help making the situation worse than it is. It doesn't really hurt the game either, so I'm for it.
With the ammount of turns you have been missing no luxury resources trade will help you [:O]
socralynnek
20-11-2009, 17:09
I'm with barbu (as AFAICS he is the only one who is able to make a statement on knowing enough facts): Ban luxury trades. But I don't mind if it stays allowed either.
Lt. Killer M
20-11-2009, 20:00
With the ammount of turns you have been missing no luxury resources trade will help you [:O]
ever heard of queuing orders, builds and research?
ever heard of queuing orders, builds and research?
Yup, got everything queued for Domination :D [dominance [estwing]
I don't really find it to be an issue, but I've always though the point of having a map maker was to make sure the map was balanced, so when the map maker said it was unbalanced I was a bit confused.
It's anything but balanced! I think I'm just going to go Kamikaze on someone's ass, better than a slow death...
Come on guys, you didn't pay anyone for this map, and there's no cash prize at the end. I'm sure barbu might tell you guys to stick it should you ever need another map maker.
Darkness
21-11-2009, 19:50
Come on guys, you didn't pay anyone for this map, and there's no cash prize at the end. I'm sure barbu might tell you guys to stick it should you ever need another map maker.
+1
Lt. Killer M
21-11-2009, 20:00
+1
+2
+3.
Having said that imvho it might be helpful to have a mapmaking checklist for future maps going to be made.
I suppose a lesson should have been learned when I messed up the last one. When I fixed that map I had someone else double check it.
EDIT: Agree with Beam. Double checking would still be a good idea, but something might still be overlooked. A checklist plus a double checker would probably be ideal.
Shabbaman
22-11-2009, 09:50
I'm sure barbu might tell you guys to stick it should you ever need another map maker.
Nah, I doubt it's that bad ;) But I agree with the sentiment. It's not as if the previous maps were balanced, and those were fun enough. Let's just get over it and say we'll do a boring mirrored map next time.
I'm getting a CTD when I try to join the game.
EDIT: Seems to have fixed itself.
Come on guys, you didn't pay anyone for this map, and there's no cash prize at the end. I'm sure barbu might tell you guys to stick it should you ever need another map maker.
+5
I suppose a lesson should have been learned when I messed up the last one. When I fixed that map I had someone else double check it.
EDIT: Agree with Beam. Double checking would still be a good idea, but something might still be overlooked. A checklist plus a double checker would probably be ideal.
I'm not so sure. If we want balanced maps, we can simply give each player exactly the same peninsula. As a bonus, I guess it would take less time to make such a map.
However, the point of civ is that there is some disbalance. The game is not just about doing the right things, but merely about doing the right things, given your specific circumstances.
And is there is too much disbalance? So what? I'll quote myself:
And if one or two players appear to be unjustly treated by their surroundings, well....., tough luck then.......
+whatever, I can only count to 5
+whatever, I can only count to 5
You're + 6 sunshine.;)
Come on guys, you didn't pay anyone for this map, and there's no cash prize at the end. I'm sure barbu might tell you guys to stick it should you ever need another map maker.
+7
I just hope we don't have another debate when people discover some of the land bridges are disconnected
.. However, the point of civ is that there is some disbalance. ...
I reserve the sacred right of every civ player to complain and curse violently about that and my own misfortune. [lol] And sometimes it helps. In general, good RNG runs are quite common after loudly complaining about bad luck.
Come on guys, you didn't pay anyone for this map, and there's no cash prize at the end. I'm sure barbu might tell you guys to stick it should you ever need another map maker.
Map isn't balanced, and I've drawn a short straw - but I'm still going to have fun :D
Absolutely, and going into killing some neighbor of yours is a great idea of fun. [hammer] At least, from mine POV. [evil]
I'll be away for a few days so mauer is taking over. Should there be any urgent matter of diplomacy (though i can't image it) direct them to him
Shabbaman
27-11-2009, 08:05
I'm away as well, so if you wish to invade my errr... I mean conduct diplomacy it'd be nice to let Killer look for a replacement or revert the American Empire to the AI :o)
Indiansmoke
01-12-2009, 18:37
The game is down.
The game is down.
Bitte das Spiel sofort wieder am Draht bringen!
Der rechner wird jetzt kaltgestartet!
Game is up and running again but I had to restart from the autosav created by Matrix and unfortunately Matrix has to replay.
Zu spät. [tongue] Schade für mich.
socralynnek
02-12-2009, 09:51
Somehow it seems so as if CDZ recently been translated using Google translator. This text has in fact sent to that very well into English (ok, at this rate we can at least recognize it)
Ich wollte damit nicht sagen, dass euer Deutsch komplett falsch sei. Ich wollte nur spammen.
Aber wir können dass sehr viel schätzen. [:D]
Somehow it seems so as if CDZ recently been translated using Google translator. This text has in fact sent to that very well into English (ok, at this rate we can at least recognize it)
Ich wollte damit nicht sagen, dass euer Deutsch komplett falsch sei. Ich wollte nur spammen.
Wenn du an 'am Draht' referierst, dann kan ich dich sagen das diese uebersetzung voellig durch mich selbst ausgedachtet (worden) ist.
Am Draht sein...., das hat doch etwas!
Kaltstarten..., ja, hat es auch.
Apart from all this, I am fairly annoyed nobody is annoyed by the spam in German.............
barbu1977
02-12-2009, 19:55
Lawyer: But what about that tattoo on your chest? Doesn't it say, "Die Bart, Die?"
Sideshow Bob: [conciliatorily] No, that's German for "The Bart, The."
Officer: No one who speaks German could be an evil man.
Shabbaman
03-12-2009, 09:06
Apart from all this, I am fairly annoyed nobody is annoyed by the spam in German.............
As long as you don't mention the war.
Bitte das Spiel sofort wieder am Draht bringen!
Der rechner wird jetzt kaltgestartet!
Zu spät. [tongue] Schade für mich.
Aber wir können dass sehr viel schätzen. [:D]
Pa šta, jeli čemo sad se razgovarati svi u svojim jezikama?
Pa šta, jeli čemo sad se razgovarati svi u svojim jezikama?
Ne dragi moi, govorimo na drugom jeziku mi stvarno ne razumem, umesto da govori na engleskom ili holandskom!
Ne dragi moi, govorimo na drugom jeziku mi stvarno ne razumem, umesto da govori na engleskom ili holandskom!
Dobro onda, Ik kan het Nederlands spreken als dat is wat u verkiest;)
Shabbaman
04-12-2009, 10:24
On behalf of several members of the community, I would like to express my shock and disappointment at some of Google Translator's philosophies. It may help if I begin my discussion by relating an innocuous story in order to illustrate my point: A few days ago I was arguing with an infantile blatherskite who was insisting that all it takes to solve our social woes are shotgun marriages, heavy-handed divorce laws, and a return to some mythical 1950s Shangri-la. I tried to convince this careerism-prone pipsqueak that I intend to ensure that the values for which we have labored and for which many of us have fought and sacrificed will continue in ascendancy. That's the path that I have chosen. It's certainly not an easy path, but then again, Google Translator is trying to dig a grave in which to bury liberty and freedom. Their mission? To nail people to trees. My eventual goal for this letter is to comment on Google Translator's screeds. I'm counting on you for your support.
On behalf of several members of the community, I would like to express my shock and disappointment at some of Google Translator's philosophies. It may help if I begin my discussion by relating an innocuous story in order to illustrate my point: A few days ago I was arguing with an infantile blatherskite who was insisting that all it takes to solve our social woes are shotgun marriages, heavy-handed divorce laws, and a return to some mythical 1950s Shangri-la. I tried to convince this careerism-prone pipsqueak that I intend to ensure that the values for which we have labored and for which many of us have fought and sacrificed will continue in ascendancy. That's the path that I have chosen. It's certainly not an easy path, but then again, Google Translator is trying to dig a grave in which to bury liberty and freedom. Their mission? To nail people to trees. My eventual goal for this letter is to comment on Google Translator's screeds. I'm counting on you for your support.
Can you do a German version?;)
Im Namen von mehreren Mitgliedern der Gemeinschaft möchte ich mein Entsetzen und meine Enttäuschung über einige Philosophien Google Translator zum Ausdruck bringen. Es kann helfen, wenn ich meine Ausführungen damit beginnen, über eine harmlose Geschichte, um meinen Standpunkt zu verdeutlichen: Vor ein paar Tagen war ich Streit mit einer infantilen Duschack darauf, wer es war, dass alle unsere soziale Elend nimmt zu lösen sind, zwangsweise, heavy-handed Scheidungsrecht, und eine Rückkehr zu einem mythischen 1950er Shangri-la. Ich habe versucht, diese Karrierismus-anfällig pipsqueak zu überzeugen, dass ich beabsichtige, um sicherzustellen, dass die Werte, für die wir gearbeitet haben und für die viele von uns gekämpft haben und geopfert werden in Aufstieg fortzusetzen. Das ist der Weg, den ich gewählt haben. Es ist sicherlich kein einfacher Weg, aber dann wieder ist Google Translator versuchen, ein Grab, in dem die Freiheit und die Freiheit begraben zu graben. Ihre Mission? Um Nagel Menschen auf Bäume. Mein Fernziel für diesen Brief ist auf Estriche Google Translator Stellung zu nehmen. Ich zähle auf Sie für Ihre Unterstützung.
Natuerlich.
socralynnek
07-12-2009, 18:25
In diesem Schreiben werde ich mein Bestes tun, um meine Argumente gegen Gugel übersetzen klar und artikulieren können. Ich habe vor, zahlreiche Beispiele zu nutzen und vielleicht sogar einige gelegentliche Humor, um nicht Ihre Geduld Druck, da ich in ungeheure Detail darüber, wie Gugel übersetzen's Aufwallungen vertiefen sind nicht in Einklang mit demokratischen Praktiken, der Gerechtigkeit und Fairness. Um am Anfang zu beginnen, ist die Zeit, immer Recht zu tun, was richtig ist. Deshalb fördern wir wirklich öffnen müssen, bürgerschaftliches Engagement. Der erste Schritt in diesem Prozess ist zu erkennen, dass seine These ist, dass es eine Organisation des Friedens ist. Das ist völlig sniffish, sagen Sie? Gut, das bedeutet, dass Sie endlich mehr zieht. Der nächste Schritt ist die Feststellung, dass Gugel hat zu übersetzen, auf eine Reihe von Gelegenheiten, den Wunsch geäußert, das Konzept der kollektiven Schuld, die die Wurzel allen Vorurteilen ist zu verstärken. Bei all diesen Gelegenheiten habe ich unterbreitet dem Rat meiner Freunde, die mir versichert, dass es ein interessantes Organisation ist. Auf der einen Seite, Gugel übersetzen will, um uns in einen Zustand der Schlaganfall-Laufwerk ein. Aber auf der anderen Seite war seine politisch unkorrekten Versuch, eine kreative Antwort auf meinen letzten Brief zu konstruieren absolut erbärmlich. Wirklich, Gugel übersetzen, Aneinanderreihen von ein paar solecistic Beleidigungen und scheinbar zufälligen Geschwätz ist kaum wirksam. Es beweist, einfach ohne den Schatten eines Zweifels, dass es hier ein Problem. Eine sehr große, blutrünstig, höllischen Problem. Dennoch ist die Frage, was man über Gugel übersetzen ist geistig behindert Märchen nicht weit davon entfernt nieder. Der Brief, den Sie gerade lesen, sollten als Ausgangspunkt für den Dialog über dieses kontroverse Thema zu sehen.
Interesting to see the differences between the google translator and proper versions
barbu1977
08-12-2009, 17:57
And it looks like google translator does not translate "Google" correcty.
socralynnek
08-12-2009, 19:09
And it looks like google translator does not translate "Google" correcty.
Not really. "Google Translator" does not translate "Google Translator" correctly, as it translates "Google Translator" to "Google Translator" and not to "Google Übersetzer". That's why I made a little joke and entered it wrong...as "Gugelhupf" is a German cake and the first part is pronounced exactly like "Google"
Fine,a spam post, explaining my previous spam post. That's meta-Spam.
socralynnek
15-12-2009, 09:44
Back to topic: How about holiday season?
I'll be away from Civ4 from 23rd to 27th and then again from 31st to 2nd of January.
Personally, I'd be fine with the game just running, but if too many are gone, then it would be better to stop.
I'm here but have nothing against taking a break from the game for a week or so if others arn't
Indiansmoke
15-12-2009, 14:15
I will be away from 26th to 6th but will try to get a sub
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