***RESULT*** digger760 vs tunerica

[digger760]

4000BC dazzled by two cows, so i settle, set research max on pottery,
move worker to mine cows

3950BC relise i am missing out on port city, oh well. starting mining cows on plains

between 3950BC and 3400BC
hmmm i wonder in mining the cows on the plain was anygood, perhaps i should have irrigated. I can see tunerica's start position is south east of mine at the password screen
Warrior produced, set to build another, warrior heads south
2nd warrior produced, set barrack as granary pre-build
discover pottery
warrior heading south east towards were i think tunerica is, distracted by hut to the south, so i go that way

3400BC warrior heading south of Babylon, popped hut on mountains..yokels, at end of turn they attack and loose...now have vet warrior

3200BC found persia, defended by spearman. either this is tunerica's normal tactic or i the fact that i told him i knew i was close scared him into building it. he can't be exploring at all..i have only had time to build two warriors

3100BC traded Cerimonial burial for masonry, Tunerica dosn't seem to know about tech costs ..this sort of trade could come back and bite me if he figures it out

3000BC granary built. Babylon is a bit of a powerhouse..settler due in 5. might build some bowman after that as warrior code is due about 5 turns.

2950BC warrior moves onto mountain, also next to settler moving north east out or persia. Some how tunericas score is higher than mine??? maybe he is on a luxury...i'll have to check that.

2900 Persian settler is still next to my warrior...i ask tunerica for protection money. he wants to open a sav file to check what he can offer but has overwritten the sav with my turn. I say forget it, just take it as a warning. At end of turn Persian settler moves away from persia..WTK...tunerica tells me its on automove weird human players automoves seem to happen with AI moves.

2850 Tunerica still moving settler away from persia??

2800 Persian settler has settled...i gave tunerica warning about this. i decide to raise the city with my warrior. let this be a leason to all PBEM newbies, never leave your settler unguarded.


2750BC Tunerica did'nt seem to complain about loosing the city...so i asked why, said he found a settler from a hut, now i don't feel guilty. That must mean he has a warrior floating about. Settler produced, heading south to fill up land near tunerica. Warrior heading to south persia

2710BC See second Persian city Pasregarde.

2710-2250 moved warrior across the north of Pasregarde. Forced Tunerica to guard a worker with spearman. Tunerica offered me 20 gold to bugger off and not come back for 10 turns. I said ok as I was only taking a short cut through his territory to explore the fog.

Here are some pictures...Observe the power of the industrial civ.

http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/digger760/2003618101950_home.jpg
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http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/digger760/2003618102030_persia.jpg
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[ProPain]

mm. Close one with that free settler. Had you not destroyed it he would have had the upper hand soon and very close to your territory. On the mining of the plains cow. iirc that's a total waste of worker moves because you'll lose your extra shield due to despot penalty. In other words the tile would have yielded the same amount of shields as it does now when you wouldnt have mined it. Better irrigate that.

[digger760]

yeh, total smoke, i have gone back to irrigate.

i have placed my second city on the plains south east of the forest. I was going to place it on the forest. but i hate having my city next to mountains, it is hard to fight attackers of them, at least now i only have 1 mountains to worry about. i better get a defender on it soon.

[digger760]

2310BC meet the indians, swapped masonry for alphabet + 10 gold, checked with diplo, tunerica seems to have every tech I have.

2070 swap wheel + 8 gold for iron working with indians. Changed research to horseback riding. Tunerica lacks wheel(I think) and iron working. I think I would like to keep these to myself for a while. Tunerica has iron on the hill to the north-north east of the ruins. The closest iron to me is on the mountains behind the blue dot that you can click on to end a turn there is another source about 5 or 6 squares to the west of my capital. I have a settler headed west of capital.

1910BC Checked diplo, can no longer offer wheel or iron working, I¡¦m not sure if I could offer wheel earlier, but now I know he did¡¦nt have iron, I have to secure my source. These next few turns will be critical. There is some nice land to my south west if I can capture that then I should be looking ok. If tunerica is out exploring it is a wonder I hav¡¦nt seen him yet, there must be extended land to the east of him. Now that I have roaded up horses I am going to build my first ever chariot and race over to see what is there. I should have bee-lined to monarchy to, since I have a UU floating about it would be nice to hit the golden age in monarchy. Tunerica has built his third city northeast of the ruins

1830BC checked tech screen, tried to correlate tech calculator with turns to discover techs. Everything seems to be out of whack by one, but I think tunerica is on par with me for techs

1790BC Indians warriors on my turf. I asked them to move they declare war. 1 indian warrior kills himself on my spear

1750BC Two more indians kill them selves on my spear, now have vet spear ļ, building temple in Capital, will take 4 turns. Looks like I wont get to build that chariot after all.

1725BC forgot to try and get peace from indians¡Kmight be better anyway if they keep throwing warriors at me.

1700BC discovered horseback riding, indians will not talk to me

1650BC offered horseback riding to tunerica, tech calc tells me he has no techs to offer. Tunerica confirms this with me on msn, he also told me he would have writing in 6 turns. I offered to exchange horseback riding whenm he gets it. He said we¡¦ll see.

here are screenie of 1700BC. i think tunerica has another settler out there, i think i was Pasregarde drop from 3 to 1 and is now back at 2.
By my reckoning i am out producing him on setters and have a bigger military. Oh and there is an Indian border pepping out of the fog south west of Niveneh

http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/digger760/2003619162357_1700e.jpg
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http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/digger760/2003619162419_1700w.jpg
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[digger760]

seems all the action happened a few turns after this. Somehow the vikings got contact with me. I traded horseback riding for writing. I also sold cerimonial burial (i can't remember how much). I got contact with the french and carthage as well. I established an embassy in Paris. They are located east-north east of persia(tunerica) about the same distance is i am from Persia(tunerica).

I established an embassy with Persia(tunerica) it seems he has contact with France and the Vikings

I beleive tunerica has 4 maybe 5 cities. Here is the Persepolis Screen Shot in 1475BC, note that i donnot yet have iron hooked up but tunerica has (i have 2 sources in my territory). He is building a temple, maybe he wants to put flip pressure on Ashur, so i put Ashur to building a temple. I must be wary of those immortals, i hope to counter any immortal attack with swords or bowman.

http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/digger760/200362095335_persepolis1475BC.jpg
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[prettyvacant]

temple ??? he's already got two luxs so it cant be for happiness. Could he have worked out when you would build your embassy? Surely the obvious route (espec with barracks already) is immortals ad infinitum, attack (rather than hoping for flip), golden age, and lots of dead babs - or at least so much damage youll never recover.

Edit: realised this post was a bit gloomy. So on a slightly more positive note (as i think the time for bowmen has passed, attack before hooked to iron may have worked) i reckon you have four options:
pray
somehow convivnce him to be peaceful
get some advice who knows more about civ than me
[tank]

[digger760]

good point, i never noticed the barracks, i don't have one of those yet all my troops are regulars. I could be that he is a builder type player

[digger760]

he seems peacful..not a single unit in my territory, infact if it was'nt for the border of Ashur pushing over his way i don't think he'd know were i was.

I'm not scared of immortals anyway, they can only move 1 and are exposed on plains.

[digger760]

tunerica is also going away for 5 weeks as of wednesday so this game will be in limbo for a while :(

[Lt. Killer M]

if I was him I'd have another city with racks, warrior myself to hell and save money.

then, digger find a very big surprise at his door one day......



if I was tunerica...... ;)

[ProPain]

couldnt agree with you more Killer. Especially because Digger is boxing in Tunerica! If he (Tunerica) stays peacefull he'll lose because Digger will grow bigger while his growth stagnates.

[digger760]

Tunerica is now gone for approx 5 weeks. This is Pangea and as it turns out there is land the far side of tunerica, and at-least the french and carthaginians are over there, the vkings are at war with the french so i presume they are there as well. To my right is only the indians, and there are only 4 AI's in this game so all have been accounted for.

I have 3 cities extra since the last screenie. 1, northeast of iron mountain (and can be seen from the persepolis screen shot), 2nd north west of the spices and the 3rd south east of the horses on the tundra (there are furs down there as well). That makes a total of 6 cities, Tunerica got the jump on me by getting a settler early from a hut, but my cow city has helped catch-up. I am almost level on th3 score now.

Tunerica also got smart with trading, i had offered to swap horse riding for writing, but we both end up trading with the AI's. He also got philosophy before me, but i waited for polyethism to come in a trade with the AI to get it. I traded poly with the vikings for map-making, philosophy, 40 gold and his territory map.

I have also built 2 vet swords which will guard any immortal advance,
and i have 1 reg horse, 1 reg sword to the west picking of barbs and scaring indian workers

I am at 40 turn research for monarchy, which will be handy and cos i am a religious civ will be easy to vhange to republic when i get that.

I am building one more settler to fill the gap down south.

[digger760]

this game is back in action. We lost my last turn, and i never checked this thread to see what i did. Turns out i did almost the same, except i gave poly to everybody for there world maps and what ever gold the had. I did exactly the same trade with the vikings, i set to research literature instead at 13 turns. One of the AI's will probably go for monarchy.

[digger760]

In the year 800BC Babylon attacks india in attempt to press for domination in the western pangea. Babylons army consisted of:

3 vet swords,
1 reg sword,
1 vet warrior and
1 vet horseman

In 775BC the babylonian forces take Bombay,
In 230BC the babylonian forces have increased to 6 swordsman and auto raze Banglalore, then head south to Madras,
In 170BC Discovered Republic, Built Great Library, looks like I’m the only one with Republic. I nevously attack Madras(built on a hill) with 3 swords I lost the first(elite:() but the next 2 win and 1 is promoted to elite.

A few years later, Babylonian forces head down the peninsula and easily take Calcutta. However by this time, Babylonian forces were quite battered and spread over a large area. Some poor decisions on troop movements in the Madras and Bomaby areas lead to a counter attack by Indian archers and the mangaged to take back Bombay [mad]. And at Madras a worker was lost.

However by 360 AD the Babylonian forces have recovered somewhat. They have been probing from the mountains in to the forested area between Lahore and Dehli, picking of indian archers, the archers have been defending fiercly and the result of these battles usually ends up in a Babylonian medivil infantry limping back to Madras to heal. As the situation now stands a force of 2 swords and 2 medievil infantry have gathered over the hills of Delhi ready to attack, A secondary force is gathering in Madras to take Lahore, although they are wating a few years for other units to heal.

Meanwhile in 230 BC Tunerica and Vikings made peace and I think they made some deal over Literature and Construction. France later discovered Monarchy, I thought I might trade it with the Vikings for Construction, but I could not afford to buy it. Somebody got currency, now all the AI’s have currency, monarchy and construction. Tunerica offered currency, but I am 4 turns away from the Great Library. Tunerica had his forces way to the east crushing france.

In the year 170BC got my golden age (republic too :))

90BC Tunerica signs peace treaty with France and gets Monarchy and Construction in the deal (the earlier deal with vikings was currency for construction, then gets Feudalism as free tech for being scientific. Tells me he has also just researched republic, so we are all square on the tech race now.

The year is now 360AD, Tunerica might have monoethism cos, he asked me if i had it, which i dont but i do have fuedalism. Since i have the great library tax is set to 100%

Here is the situation as 360AD (special note - France has respawend after tunrica wiped them out in the east)
http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/digger760/20039285554_core360ad.jpg
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http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/digger760/20039285631_west360ad.jpg
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http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/digger760/2003928577_demo360.jpg
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Miltary (much stronger than these guys (persia))
8 horseman
5 pikes
9 bowman
13 medievil infantry
2 swords

mostly vets. Since i am stronger and have a better manufacturing base than tunerica i should probably attack. But i need to finish off india and i have a pre-build for leonardos going, and am building the horseman of the appocalypse for a special purpose too ;)

[Lt. Killer M]

dumb Q maybe, but why did you mine the plains cow at the start? Inb despo it will not give more prod... you could have roaded a tile instead, then later come back to it....

OTOH, irrigation will give you 3 food 2 prod......

[digger760]

Killer, I never relised, i went back and irrigated the cow on the plain very early in the game. These days I do the maths first. This is one of the differences between Monarch players and higher levels.

On a side note, a young fool and his money are easily parted, in 430AD i decided to spend about 140 gold investigating Persepolis and Pasregarde. Here is the screen shot of Persepolis
http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/digger760/20039383523_persiaCap430.jpg
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My observations:
Only 1 source of Iron (next to Arbela)
Very little defense
Tunerica has Chivalry and i dont

Pasregarde was very similar, except they were building an aqueduct.

I have a load of troops sitting not far from his border, so i could probably take his core pretty quickly. India has been defeated and my troops are en-route back to the Persia/Babylon border.

[Lt. Killer M]

watch out, Knights are pretty good defenders if on hills or in cities! Good hunting!

[digger760]

quick update:
the year is 530AD, the Great Library has just given me Invention, so i change form building Sun Tzu to Leo's (due in 14 turns).
I am not sure if the AI's are going to reseach Chivalry so have decided to reseach it myself, due in 13 turns.

I have 940 gold stored up
17 Medieval Infantry
10 Bowman
9 horseman
3 catapults
6 pikeman
2 swords
2 longbows
1 galley
3 spearman
1 warrior

The next 13 turns shall be spent building pikes, cos bowman are defending my cities, and they'll be upgraded to longbows when i get Leos

Demograpcis has me
2nd in Population,
3rd GNP,
1st in MFG,

I beleive it is infact Carthage that has the highest population.

D-day is 15 turns

[Plux]

Seems careless to leave you capital and border city so badly defended. Maybe he has all his troops stashed outside?? GL on D-Day [goodjob]

[digger760]

What gives you the idea that they are badly defended....mmm maybe i forgot to mention i am "strong comapared to them". And that the bulk of my army is sitting right next to my border city, in the hope that he can't see them even with a city investigation.

Also Tunerica does not have any ports in the sea area that Babylon is situated, so a sea invasion is highly unlikely, and also all my horseman can reach Babylon in 1-2 turns.

[digger760]

Since my last report Carthage develops gunpower, then so did tunerica, i got it from the great library, i quick scan of his territory does not reveal any saltpeter so i feel safe in attaking in about 5 turns.

Well D-Day happened a turn earlier than expected, some city growth must have helped bring chivalry in 1 turn earlier.

Leonardos workshop and Chivalry came in on the same turn. I had just over 900 gold saved up, and it cost me just over 700 to upgrade about 13 horsman, 10 bowman and a few swords. I had just enough money left to do an inspection of Persepolois just over the border (cost of 120 gold).


http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/digger760/2003911154343_670ADpers.jpg
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Still only 1 source of iron, and will land 2 pikes on that to deny tunerica any iron, no sign of saltpeter connected to his core cities either, and most suprising..F'all defense.

I step into Persian land and in doing so ask Carthage to help for a price of 15pgt, 92 gold and my world map (tunerica is also at war with scandinavia)

The approach to Persepolis is impeded by a river. I consider sending my Knights across before attacking, but send 1 knight to attack across the river to see what happens..(i have heaps to spare). The knight lost but the pike is left on red, so i push on and take the Persian capital without any further loss.

I decided to raise the city as i did'nt want to have to deal with resisting persians. My force moves on towards Pasregarde.

I disconnect Persia's only source of iron and also cut of all roads leading to the Eastern Pangea. Tunerica's core, if defended like Persepolis is buggered now.

At this point Tunerica conceded, which i am quite happy with cos, moving so many units on a C333Mhz laptop takes some doing even using the stack movement keys.

So that was it, a fun game, and i think Tunerica will learn alot from it too. I hope I can get some work done now.


Next up Puwen!!!

[tunerica]

With the game now over I could finally read the thread and see what everyone had to say about the game. It seems from many of the comments that I played it a little poorly, and I will definitely be taking a few of the things said on board, I think the major problem was that I played as though I was up against AI, and I didn't have any trouble taking care of them. I realise now that I have to be more aware of the unpredictability of the human player.

In response to a few points made above:
-building the temple when probably should have been building units, Digger hit it on the head, builder type player, things will change
-not attacking, probably partly due to the fact that I wanted the game to last and couldn't bring myself to attack the human player, even though it was the obvioius target, again, lesson learnt
-early tech trade, have no idea what anything is worth, will have to look into that so I don't get screwed again
-and the most important thing I learnt, never assume that you are safe and put all your eggs in one basket

All in all it was a great learning experience and a lot of fun, Digger played very well. Thanks guys for the things you said above, will be a lot of help.

Tunerica

[anarres]

Congrats! [party]

[Sir Eric]

Well done.