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Robi D
29-05-2009, 03:14
Standings

http://img23.imageshack.us/img23/4373/cdztable007.jpg (http://img23.imageshack.us/i/cdztable007.jpg/)


Players
Robi D- Mansa Musa of Egypt
Mauer- Tokugawa of Aztecs
Matrix- Hatshepsut of Mongolia
BCLG100- Boudica of Egypt
Socralynnek- Cyrus of Native Americans
ProPain- Tokugawa of Native Americans
Barbu1977 - Willem van Oranje of Mongolia
Lt.Killer M- Boudica of Mali
NHJ- William van Orange of Persia

Results
Robi D def Mauer - Conquest-Turn 7, (19917)194-0
Matrix def ProPain - Conquest-Turn 59, (8458)970-0
Robi D def Matrix - Conquest-Turn 49, (7887)682-0
Lt.Killer M def Matrix - Conquest- Turn 20 [
Socralynnek def Barbu1977 - Conquest-Turn 82, (46214)

Game Set Up/Rules
120 turns
Advanced start in the Anicent age, Quick speed, Noble difficulty
Duel size map, balanced resources, Pangea, temperate, normal sea level
Always war, hence no tech trades, no barbs, no random events, no huts, no espionage

Unrestricted leaders so you can mix and match leaders and civs (ie Saladin of the Aztecs). The catch is once you choose your combo you play it for every match.

2 victory conditions, time and conquest.

The points system
Win by conquest 6 pts
Win by time 4 pts (highest score on 120)
Time draw 3 pts (scores level on turn 120)
Loss by time 2 pts
Loss by conquest 0 pts


If 2 or more people are level on points they will be seperated by their head to head records, if still level then the highest difference in scores (total your scores - total of opponent scores).



Organise match ups here or just general trash talk:)

Matrix
30-05-2009, 02:19
Ok. Who'd like to play against me tomorrow (=saturday)? [rolleyes]

mauer
30-05-2009, 04:59
I'm still open for another PBEM from anyone.

Robi D
30-05-2009, 05:14
Ok. Who'd like to play against me tomorrow (=saturday)? [rolleyes]

have you got a leader-nation combo worked out? :)

Matrix
30-05-2009, 11:39
Umm, no.

ProPain
30-05-2009, 12:47
Ok. Who'd like to play against me tomorrow (=saturday)? [rolleyes]

Looking at your post time tomorrow in your post actually is Sunday :P

I can't play Saturday, having a barbie for people from work.

Matrix
30-05-2009, 14:50
Did some research and I think I have produced an excellent combo. ;)
Hatshepsut of Mongolia

So...who will be my first victim? [evil]

Robi D
02-06-2009, 12:30
Surprisingly we have our first result. Unfortunately for mauer he was at the wrong end of a very short game between us. The details are in my spoiler but its fair to say i caught him off guard and took his city before you could blink.

No one else has submitted their chioce of leader-nation apart from Matrix.

@Matrix i can start a PBEM anytime you wish, a direct ip game will take a bit of organising if you can wait. Also mauers free at the moment;)

Matrix
02-06-2009, 14:33
Since a game only takes two hours I prefer to play online. Much more fun! In your case the easiest would to play around 12:30 my time (=20:00 your time).

But I'm free tonight, in case other would like to play...

BCLG100
02-06-2009, 16:35
So can i just write who i want to be here or do i have to PM?

Matrix
02-06-2009, 17:09
You can post it here. It's already public of three players who they play with.

BCLG100
02-06-2009, 17:42
ok Boadica (sp?) of Egypt.

barbu1977
02-06-2009, 20:00
I'll try to find a leader tonight,

I'm preaty hooked up on Zelda, the Twilight Princess right now so I've been taking little with civ in the last few weeks.

ProPain
02-06-2009, 22:20
I'll try to find a leader tonight,

I'm preaty hooked up on Zelda, the Twilight Princess right now so I've been taking little with civ in the last few weeks.

Still around 20% in Zelda, need to pick it up again but: no time and the family dont like me monopolising the TV for Wii purposes :)

Robi D
03-06-2009, 02:49
Since a game only takes two hours I prefer to play online. Much more fun! In your case the easiest would to play around 12:30 my time (=20:00 your time).

But I'm free tonight, in case other would like to play...

This week i have a lot happening, but in the coming weeks i should have a free night where we can play

socralynnek
05-06-2009, 00:46
I'd like to get Cyrus of Native Americans (but only if Charismatic also works for the Monument replacement, need to check that)

ProPain
06-06-2009, 15:52
I have two questions about the format:

are we playing noble level (that's what I get automatically)?
I get 321 points to spend on the start, is that the amount we get in the tourny as well?
Just checking if my test plays were correct.

ProPain
07-06-2009, 23:26
Anybody who has time this week?

I think I can manage session during weekdays after 8pm. Only exception if Rik has time as well to play a few turns in our PBEM.

Lt. Killer M
08-06-2009, 13:18
I'd love to play a few PBEMs, but I haven't made up my mind about the leader yet (yeah, I know, weird for a German).

Robi D
08-06-2009, 14:43
I have two questions about the format:

are we playing noble level (that's what I get automatically)?
I get 321 points to spend on the start, is that the amount we get in the tourny as well?
Just checking if my test plays were correct.


Yes its played on noble. I'll add that to the rules so there is no uncertainty.
And yes it is 321 points to spend

ProPain
08-06-2009, 17:06
I'd love to play a few PBEMs, but I haven't made up my mind about the leader yet (yeah, I know, weird for a German).

I know the feeling, took me a lot of thinking what civ to pick. But the beauty of being a civIV noob is that I have a good excuse to lose.

Yes its played on noble. I'll add that to the rules so there is no uncertainty.
And yes it is 321 points to spend

Marvelous. Thanks for the reply.

OT: Multiquote rules.

barbu1977
12-06-2009, 15:54
I finaly finished Zelda yesterday. That means I should be able to get back to civ.

socralynnek
12-06-2009, 16:19
Hmmm, I'd like to play one as well but I don't know when I will have enough free time to play one at a time. But someone can start a PBEM vs me (BTW, I stick to Cyrus of Native Americans)

ProPain
12-06-2009, 18:24
I finaly finished Zelda yesterday. That means I should be able to get back to civ.


A bit OT but: How was Zelda? Should I pick it up again soon?

barbu1977
12-06-2009, 18:39
I realy liked it. It has been long since I've played a video game so extensively. The Wii controls are nicely used.

Although I must admit I had to check the walkthroug a 5-6 times to make sure I was doing the right thing or when I was stuck.

The game timer says I have played 93 hours.

ProPain
12-06-2009, 18:59
The game timer says I have played 93 hours.


That's what I call really good value for money :)

I'm just at the start and I also have the Phantom Hourglass I need to finish on the DS. (and I managed to buy both Oracle Season/Ages Zelda's for the GBA as well some time ago. ) And they have announced new Zelda's for both Wii and DS last E3.

I really need to quit my job so I can finish all video games I have lying around:D

Matrix
16-06-2009, 22:44
I just defeated ProPain. :D In the early turns he didn't notice an archer of mine and I destroyed one of his cities. Afterwards he did move in something like eight dog soldiers, but it was sort of a trap, because I killed six of them and that was decisive.

He then wanted to give up, but I convinced him to let me destroy the rest with my horde. The convincing took longer than the finish. ;)

Anyway, good game ProPain, and good luck against the rest!!

Victory in 640 BC with 8458 points.

By the way, ProPain is Tokugawa of the Native Americans.

ProPain
16-06-2009, 22:48
Ah here's the results thread. GG Matrix, congrats! Toku needs some practice :)

Wanna play another game for fun now? I have time left.

NHJ
16-06-2009, 23:43
I'm in on this, as soon as I figure out a combo. Can't play until after next week though.

Matrix
17-06-2009, 00:10
Good of you to join, NHJ! [goodjob]

One thought on score: I trust no one will draw on scores, and the chance of them two ending up with the same points in these stats are even smaller, so score won't matter. But if you would have, then they're a bad measurement. The best thing I could've done is postpone ProPain's defeat until turn 119 and kill him then.

Although score is negatively affected by time. Did you note your normalized score, Robi D? Can we see the replay?

Also, could you make a list of all participants?

Robi D
17-06-2009, 10:17
Good of you to join, NHJ! [goodjob]

One thought on score: I trust no one will draw on scores, and the chance of them two ending up with the same points in these stats are even smaller, so score won't matter. But if you would have, then they're a bad measurement. The best thing I could've done is postpone ProPain's defeat until turn 119 and kill him then.

Although score is negatively affected by time. Did you note your normalized score, Robi D? Can we see the replay?

Also, could you make a list of all participants?

The scores are used for splitting players only in the event of them being tied on points and have an equal head to head record. Since a draw is very unlikely the only realistic way is for 3 or more players being on the same points and the same head to head record in the games between them.

I didn't normalise the score, just used the standard since a time victory score would be much lower. I agree its not the best method for a tie breaker (but it is only a back up in case head to head doesn't split level players), so if you have a better suggestion i'm all ears.

I'm list participants as they put down there chioce of leader and civ, since before they have a combo they arn't ready to play. But i will update it.

And i'll hunt down the replay, but there is a screenshot in my spoiler of the winning turn.

On a side note apart from saturday night i'm free this weekend to play a game

Robi D
17-06-2009, 10:34
Hmmm, I'd like to play one as well but I don't know when I will have enough free time to play one at a time. But someone can start a PBEM vs me (BTW, I stick to Cyrus of Native Americans)

I know mauer is free for a pbem since our game didn't last long:D

Matrix
17-06-2009, 14:57
A time victory is less of an accomplishment than a quick conquest victory, so you should be awarded for that swift kill. So I suggest you use the (default) normalized score instead of the plain score.

Can't play this weekend, Robi D, unless you're willing to play late on sunday. (I won't be able to play before 14:00, so that's 21:30 your time.)

ProPain
17-06-2009, 19:36
A time victory is less of an accomplishment than a quick conquest victory, so you should be awarded for that swift kill. So I suggest you use the (default) normalized score instead of the plain score.

Can't play this weekend, Robi D, unless you're willing to play late on sunday. (I won't be able to play before 14:00, so that's 21:30 your time.)

I don't agree, I expect a lot of aggresive, gun-blazing games. And especially on such a small map most games will end in conquests methinks.

EDIT: my no 4444 post!!! [bday]

Robi D
18-06-2009, 11:44
A time victory is less of an accomplishment than a quick conquest victory, so you should be awarded for that swift kill. So I suggest you use the (default) normalized score instead of the plain score.

Can't play this weekend, Robi D, unless you're willing to play late on sunday. (I won't be able to play before 14:00, so that's 21:30 your time.)

That time could work:) EDIT- Unforunately i can't on sunday, but i can do that time anyday during the week or next weekend

Also had a think about what we could use as a tiebreaker. Instead of the score which can be unbalanced, i suggest using the average turns to win a game.

For each win you get we take what turn you won on then take the average. A time victory would automatically be 120 turns. The the lower the average the better you do. Therefore their is no incentive to milk a score.

A loss would not count towards the average.

Example
I play mauer and win in 6 turns. My average is 6
Next i play ProPain and lose. Average is still 6
Third game i beat matrix in 94 turns. My 2 wins have taken 100 turns total so my average would be 50.

This would only be used if points and head to head record is equal

barbu1977
22-06-2009, 06:13
I will play Willem van Oranje of the Mongols.

I'm about to start a PBEM against BC, but there is room for another

Matrix
23-06-2009, 01:41
Robi D, only taking the date into account seems better to me as well. Especially when taking the nature of these matches into account. (They don't have much to do with the original concept of the game: building a 'civilization'.) But then I think it would be better to make the number of turns left as secondary scoring system. And I'd also give the losers penalty points. In that case you would have +114 and mauer -114. That way the sooner you eliminated someone (which is what you strive), the better your score. In case of a time victory the secondary score remains unaltered.

By the way, what happened to that fancy spreadsheet?

Lt. Killer M
23-06-2009, 02:20
I'll be Boudica of Mali. Haven't tested that combo at all, thus it might be fun in a erh.... self-destructive way :lol:

barbu1977
23-06-2009, 05:06
About the settings, are we playing cylindrical or flat world?

Robi D
23-06-2009, 13:17
About the settings, are we playing cylindrical or flat world?

cylindrical

Robi D
03-07-2009, 12:16
I will be free tomorrow (saturday 4/7) from about 7.30pm my time which is around noon central european time for 5 to 6 hours if anyone is interested and available to play a direct ip game

Matrix
03-07-2009, 12:35
And here's your opponent! :)

Robi D
04-07-2009, 07:45
And here's your opponent! :)

see you then :)

Robi D
04-07-2009, 16:07
Table is updated to include the top of the table clash Robi v Matrix.

You can check out the recap in my spoiler here (http://www.civduelzone.com/forum/showthread.php?t=4934)

Also those who have indicated there interest in participating but are yet to make their leader-civ choice please do so we can finalise the running list so we know who we need to play, or let us know that you wont be playing this time around :)

Robi D
04-07-2009, 16:57
Look for the replay of my win against mauer i realised there was a glitch in that i didn't get a victory. I don't know why since all the conditions were set up. For the sake of transparency here is a screenshot of turn 7 (since i noticed you get credited with the win on the turn after taking someone out)

http://img80.imageshack.us/img80/340/cdzmauer007.jpg (http://img80.imageshack.us/i/cdzmauer007.jpg/)

I attached the save from turn 6 if someone is interested in trying to work out why the conquest win didn't happen (password: connor)

Also attached the replay from my game with matrix

Darkness
04-07-2009, 19:00
After reading Robi's spoiler I have to say that this set-up feels a bit like a game of dice...
If you get luky with how you assign the advanced start points you can gain a massive advantage.

But still, it makes for nice, quick games. :)

Matrix
05-07-2009, 01:53
Indeed, Darkness. I made a very bad choice by not going for spears a.s.a.p. If I'd have those, I might have stopped Robi D. He ran onto me with two war chariots in the beginning and I knew from turn 1 that I didn't have a chance, just because of wrong choices there.

Having said that, we started damn close to each other...

Anyway, as for my game against ProPain, turn 59 is correct. Here's the turn/date correspondence:
Turns 0-50: Date 4000 BC - 1000 BC (60 years/turn)
Turns 50-80: Date 1000 BC - 200 AD (40 years/turn)
Turns 80-100: Date 200 AD - 800 AD (30 years/turn)
Turns 100-120: Date 800 AD - 1200 AD (20 years/turn)

Robi D
05-07-2009, 03:03
After reading Robi's spoiler I have to say that this set-up feels a bit like a game of dice...
If you get luky with how you assign the advanced start points you can gain a massive advantage.

But still, it makes for nice, quick games. :)

It is a dice roll to an extent but part of it comes down to good management as well. I can't help but feel at this point i probably have a edge since i did a bunch of test games. I'd say if i played mauer or matrix after they have done another half dozen advanced starts they would be making better choices.

Lt. Killer M
05-07-2009, 16:23
Robi, it seems that you get a win on turn 10 when you eliminate a player before turn 10. That's a glitch between 'always war' and the regular 10 turn grace period in advanced start.

Matrix
05-07-2009, 23:39
Good finding, Killer!

It would've been better to disallow players not to enter cultural borders until turn 10, because it causes such crazy situations such as with Robi D's matches...

Lt. Killer M
06-07-2009, 00:04
Good finding, Killer!

It would've been better to disallow players not to enter cultural borders until turn 10, because it causes such crazy situations such as with Robi D's matches...

or mine vs romeo.... 3 skirmishers next to his borders on turn 2. Oops!

Robi D
06-07-2009, 09:50
Good finding, Killer!

It would've been better to disallow players not to enter cultural borders until turn 10, because it causes such crazy situations such as with Robi D's matches...

The thing is in all my test game not once did i have a situation where the starting positions were on top of each other

or mine vs romeo.... 3 skirmishers next to his borders on turn 2. Oops!

I take it thats a win?
What nation-leader is Romeo playing

Lt. Killer M
06-07-2009, 11:15
I take it thats a win?


not yet!

NHJ
29-07-2009, 14:35
After pouring over the various options for a few days, I think I'll give it a try as Willem van Oranje of the Persians.

barbu1977
29-07-2009, 15:09
I had a game schedule against BC, but it looks like he has vanished.

Therefore, I'm free for a game!

Any takers?

Matrix
29-07-2009, 15:41
Sadly I'm at work.

But I could play tonight. I.e. around 19:00 GMT.

barbu1977
29-07-2009, 19:23
I was talking about a PBEM.

But if you are free at 19h (that is 20h Groningen right?) , we could get it going. I'll be on MSN.

Lt. Killer M
04-08-2009, 19:07
Matrix has just sent me the final save of our league game. I claim a conquest win in 2800BC.

now where can I find that darn replay... (wanders off lost into the depths of his hard disks).


EDIT: noobQ: how do I play a replay?

AND: I am free for another PBEM!

Matrix
04-08-2009, 22:25
<My Documents>\My Games\Beyond the Sword\Replay\Killer_<date>_<highest number>.CivBeyondSwordReplay

Probably the last replay made. Sort by date created.

Lt. Killer M
04-08-2009, 22:48
<My Documents>\My Games\Beyond the Sword\Replay\Killer_<date>_<highest number>.CivBeyondSwordReplay

Probably the last replay made. Sort by date created.

thanks - I found them, but how do I VIEW them?

barbu1977
04-08-2009, 23:04
double click when the program is not running?

Lt. Killer M
04-08-2009, 23:05
double click when the program is not running? starts CIV, and then I get a loading error and crash to desktop. :(

yes, I am fully patched.

EDIT: reboot of Windoof (Winstupid) solved this. Thanks! replay attached

ProPain
06-08-2009, 14:20
Last day at work, tomorrow I'm leaving for my holiday.

I have internet access at my holiday adress so I;m all up for some civ matches, and I have certainly have time to get a turn done a day, probably more.

Any takers?

Lt. Killer M
06-08-2009, 16:25
Last day at work, tomorrow I'm leaving for my holiday.

I have internet access at my holiday adress so I;m all up for some civ matches, and I have certainly have time to get a turn done a day, probably more.

Any takers?

me

want me to start the game?

EDIT: here it is (attached)

Robi D
11-08-2009, 14:42
Sorry i've been away for a while but life and lack of internet access got in the way. Between starting some new studies, problems with neighbours (it always fun when drug runner move in next door) and almost no internet because some moronic builder cant read plans and dig through cables (well technically they took out a water pipe which resulted in ruining the cables).

But now those issues have been resolved in one way or another so here i am. Nice to see some more game have been completed, i get on to those and update the table. Also if anyone is free and interested in a PBEM i'm ready to go :)

Lt. Killer M
11-08-2009, 15:32
Also if anyone is free and interested in a PBEM i'm ready to go :)

Me! Want me to start our game?

Robi D
11-08-2009, 23:57
Me! Want me to start our game?

Sure no problem.
my emails rdragoljevic@hotmail.com

Lt. Killer M
12-08-2009, 00:18
game's on the way :)

and lemme tell ya: them war chariots got me worried!

Lt. Killer M
12-08-2009, 00:46
sorry, email server is apparently down for maintenance, so game goes out tomorrow morning.

Robi D
12-08-2009, 15:15
sorry, email server is apparently down for maintenance, so game goes out tomorrow morning.

No problem:)

Lt. Killer M
12-08-2009, 15:36
No problem:)

did you receive it by now?

Robi D
14-08-2009, 10:46
An issue thats been brought up about finishing off games.

Ideally you should try to complete all your games to the very end, even if the last 10 or so turns are staring into the face of the defeat. Aside from the winning player get a bit of satisfaction from finishing off the job, its fairer on the other players in the league because if you conceed then the victory is from that turn and not 10 turns later when you would have died. This could possible alter postions of where players finish at the end of the day

Lt. Killer M
10-09-2009, 22:57
[bump] for ProPain

ProPain
11-09-2009, 21:40
He killer, I have a version problem. I;m on build 301, and apparently this is build 302. Is this just the latest upgrade and what happens with old version pbem saves. Do they upgrade automatically?

Lt. Killer M
11-09-2009, 23:36
He killer, I have a version problem. I;m on build 301, and apparently this is build 302. Is this just the latest upgrade and what happens with old version pbem saves. Do they upgrade automatically?

I have no idea. All I know is that I had PBEMs running which got killed by earlier updates. So maybe you best back up your entire CIV BtS folder, install the update and then test?

ProPain
13-09-2009, 22:24
updated and playing.

Lt. Killer M
13-09-2009, 22:30
updated and playing.



:D

great!

I am currently not as fast as I'd like to (to the chagrin of Robi and socralynnek), because I am under an impossible deadline at work. Again.

ProPain
13-09-2009, 22:34
And here's the turn back. Slow pace is no problem for me, I'm slow by nature. :)

Lt. Killer M
14-09-2009, 13:25
and here we go, please use the email addy I PMed you

socralynnek
11-10-2009, 00:49
barbu vs socralynnek - Conquest win in 260 AD for me (46214 points)

I'll update my spoiler soon.

Was a little lucky that I got a much more central position than barbu. Grabbing horses was decisive...more in my spoiler.

Robi D
14-10-2009, 08:57
I'll update the table soon:)

Can you tell me what turn that was?

socralynnek
15-10-2009, 01:19
Turn 82

socralynnek
15-10-2009, 15:27
My game against Killer is not finished. So I guess, I don't deserve to be that high up.

BTW, someone interested in challenging me (PBEM is best)

Robi D
15-10-2009, 17:54
My game against Killer is not finished. So I guess, I don't deserve to be that high up.

BTW, someone interested in challenging me (PBEM is best)

I could have sworn i read somewher you had won... oh well that can be easily fixed

Matrix
28-12-2009, 19:40
How's it going, lads? :) Lots of matches left to be played, I see.

I just played against NHJ, here at home. :D I lost, though. He conquered me in turn 121, 1220 AD, with a score of 28200. I made one vital error in the beginning: I bought my second city before buying Animal Husbandry in the advanced start build-up. [wallbash] As a result I didn't have horses. How handy is that when you're playing as Mongolians... [rolleyes]

He plays at William of Orange of the Persians, by the way. I don't see him in the overview yet...

NHJ
29-12-2009, 01:26
That was a good match, and not only because I won :p

Funnily enough, both our UUs needed horses, and the primary source of Horse was right on our borders, prompting some disagreements as to its rightful owner. Also I got Ivory right near my capital, which did help a lot.

Robi D
03-01-2010, 11:35
I put that one on. There are many matches to go, things haven't moved as quickly as i had hoped.

barbu1977
07-01-2010, 02:58
Barbu's Mogols have beaten Matrix's Mogols on turn 73 with a score of 52906

I currently have room for 2 PBEM if anyone is up.

Robi D
12-01-2010, 07:52
I just played against NHJ, here at home. :D I lost, though. He conquered me in turn 121, 1220 AD, with a score of 28200.


With the heatwave i haven't been on the computer much and was putting the results in i notice the turn above just now, I'm guessing you forgot to set the time limit to 120 turns.

I'm guessing NHJ had more points at turn 120 and would win via time?

Matrix
12-01-2010, 12:08
Hm, that's a good question. First of all, did he conquer me in turn 121, or is that the turn which is stated in the Hall of Fame (which is usually one turn later). And won't the score differ when there's a turn timer? And won't we both have made different strategic choices if we saw something like: "20 turns left"? We probably would have.

Well, you're the referee. And NHL, could you upload the replay?

Robi D
13-01-2010, 08:28
Hm, that's a good question. First of all, did he conquer me in turn 121, or is that the turn which is stated in the Hall of Fame (which is usually one turn later). And won't the score differ when there's a turn timer? And won't we both have made different strategic choices if we saw something like: "20 turns left"? We probably would have.

Well, you're the referee. And NHL, could you upload the replay?

Well the turn timer would have been counting you down from 100 not 20. Check the save and get back to me, the result can be altered

NHJ
15-01-2010, 10:12
Well, if it came down to the last few turns then Matrix could have easily stalled me a bit more. But he's right that we both would have made other strategic choices and it's impossible to say how it would have turned out. We both completely missed the 120 turn limit.

I'll have to check for the replay, it should be on my laptop somewhere.