View Full Version : Spoiler: Cut the Crap
Turn 147, 740 AD, time for a spoiler
I took over in 750 BC (or so) from Plux. Plux had built a reasonable army and had cancelled his the peace agreement with Matrix (England/Groningen) a few turns ago. It was his intention, and my assignment, to hit Matrix. However, Matrix and Robi appeared to have an alliance, so Robi (Japanese) cancelled the peace deal too. The only other player on our island, NHJ of Arabia had peace deals with Matrix & Robi until 500 AD.
I had the stronger army, but there was no way to think offensively. even worse, the southeastern most city of Alexandria was so far away from the core, that I decided to give this gem, pig and ivory city up..... Robi declared in 700 BC. In 625 BC he could simply march into Alexandria.
Thsi 740AD pic gives an idea of the situation. Please note that Laagezand, Appelflap, Winschoten & Groningen were all Matrix' cities at the time.
http://civduelzone.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=198&d=1237098527
Robi's empire started 3 tiles south of Winschoten. As explained, I chose not to defend Alexandria from his stack. It would have been useless. Instead I decided to divide my units over Helipolis and Memphis. And I started to invent construction!
When Robi took Alexandia (625 BC), Matrix moved his 8 unit stack to Heliopolis. In 550 BC they were next to Heliopolis. I had a few axemen, spearmen and war chariots in or behind the city. IIRC, Matrix had 1 horse archer, 4 axemen and 3 spearmen. The biggest difference was his lack of promotions. I lost the first battle (axe to HA), then won 3 axes to axes and lost 1 (I had experienced units, which really made the difference). I had ran out of Axes now, but I could go on with spears safely, because his surviving axe was too damaged. I lost a spearman in the process and could simply take out all damaged units with war chariots. I had lost 3 units, Matrix 8. It simply wasn't the wisest thing for Matrix to do :) .
When I took out Matrix' stack (550 BC), I gained a great general. It was moved to my capitol, to add experience to units to be built there.
In 525 BC, I discovered construction. Some cats were hastily rushed :) . Robi had a far more impressive stack than Matrix, and moved it towards Memphis. I still wonder why Robi chose to do so: It was like Napoleon marching to Moscow. Even if he would take Memphis, he wouldn't gain much by it. An extra bonus for me was that Memphis was (and is) my only non-military production city.
In 400 & 375 BC (iirc), it was decided. I had a few cats behind Memphis, and a few more coming. In 2 or 3 turns, Robi's impressive stack was completely destroyed, and I got TWO more great generals. Here's a pic of the powergraph.
http://civduelzone.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=199&d=1237100411
I has succesfully defended the empire form attacks by both my opponents. So, what's next? I had a fair opportunity to conquer Matrix' lands. But that would leave the door open to Robi.... I decided to go for it, mostly because my core was simply too far away from Robi. I figured I could and should always make sure I could bring my troops back to defend my core. It still was a double strategy. But what was the alternative?
In 275 BC, I invented Horseback Riding. My capitol would only produce elephants from now on (oh, stable first of course).
In 225 BC, I felt ready and move units to Hoogezand (now Laagezand.......). In 175 BC I took it. And I took notice of very important information: In this game, city razing is off! At first , I was annoyed. What the hell could I do with this useless city? It has no resources at all! But a few turns later, I realsied this was exactly what I needed. I could shift my whole army to Matrix and leave Memphis poorly defended. It didn't have any improvements, apart from a granary and walls. It would prove to be succesful bait for Robi.
In 25 AD, Appingedam (Appelflap) was conqured, In 125 AD Groningen (Matrix' capitol) was Egyptian. Robi had donated some of his units to Matrix, but that was fruitless.
The result of taking Groningen, was that I had quite some damaged units in Groningen. Matrix was in no position to retake it, but I felt Robi was. I really expected him to fight me in Matrix' land. But he went for Memphis again. I guess he figured out most of my troops were too far away. I had a chocie to make: move ALL of my units back to my core? Or split them up? Leave a reasonable force of 15 units in Groningen and trust I could fight off Robi in and near Memhis with the rest? I dediced to keep y forces togehter and gave up Groningen. In hindsight, this was not necissary. Of the units coming from Groningen, only one was used to take out the last Japanese unit.
I could see Robi's units coming, thanks to the reasonbal culture in Memphis. It was an even more impressive stack than before, with 12 catapults and 13 other units. By no means enough to take and keep Memphis though. but because of my units were travelling some distance, he had a fair chance to breifly hold Memphis.
In 275 Robi had taken Memphis. It left his stack heavily damaged though. In 300 AD, I retook the city and in 325 AD, none of Robi's units were left. I had 28 left in and near Memphis..........
In the meantime, 500 AD was coming closer. NHJ and I were teaming up to divide Matrix' land.
In 500 AD, NHJ declared war on both Matrix and Robi. In the same year, I took Groningen. In 540, I took Winschoten and Alexandria, which was now undefende, because Robi need his troops to fight Arabia. Now I had one small front to concentrate on. all of my troops were sent to Winschoten. Form there they (40 units) went to Kalemegdan. Robi did use 8 ctas to damage my units, but in 740 AD, the city was Egyptian.
The none-used troops are now marching to Robigrad. If NHJ manages to keep any sort of pressure on Reeniville, Robi shoudl be history within a dozen turns.
http://civduelzone.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=200&d=1237102734
At the start (well, after 1 cat and 1 axe attack):
http://civduelzone.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=202&d=1237323587
At the end:
http://civduelzone.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=203&d=1237323598
Apart from Robi of course, I now have 10-turn peace deals with all players.
BTW, I'm wondering why NHJ (or rather Matrix who took over for a while) is taking this long to conquer Reeniville.
Robi is out.
I haven't really thought about next steps. Forges, libraries in all cities, spread budism, and build courthouses, I guess.
I'm probably far behind the other island. I need to think what is best for me: Take over NHJ? Or let him live?
Well good luck, your going to need some because from what i can see the other island is a fair way in front.
I'd say taking out NHJ might be the best chance to catch up... but then i'm dead so what would i know;)
Darkness
23-03-2009, 09:49
I'm probably far behind the other island. I need to think what is best for me: Take over NHJ? Or let him live?
What kind of deal do you have with NHJ ? How's your economy?
IMHO you're first priority should be the aforementioned courthouses, libraries and forges to get the economy online. But after that, what would you gain from letting NHJ live? No offense intended, but two "backward" nations on an island aren't going to win the game anyway, so why not gamble and see how far you can get if you get the whole island? Kill NHJ ASAP and set up Versailles and Forbidden Palace in Robi's and Matrix/NHJ's old lands and try to get a serious economy going. Then see how far you can get... The open thread clearly shows a big war breweing on the other continent, so their development will slow down, especially if the war lasts...
I have a 10-turn cancellation deal with NHJ :) .
But my economy sucks big time. I feel I shoudl get libs and courts first.
The question, imho, is not so much how I can benefit from keeping NHJ alive, but more how I can benefit from taking his cities. Will that really help me? At what cost? And if I do so, when should I do so?
Plan:
1. spread bud, build forges, libs and courts (thus head for court-tech).
2. Head for astronomy to make contact with all others asap?
3. Head for versailles tech (forgot the name, it's the islam tech too)
4. Have a shot at Versailles. (I have hardly built any great persons yet, sho I should be able to get an engineer)
Whatever city is not doing point one, can build soldiers?
Where to build FP and possibly Versailles?
Don't be shy guys and have a peak if you want. PW is 12qwaszx . IP-address should be in open thread.
I have a 10-turn cancellation deal with NHJ :) .
But my economy sucks big time. I feel I shoudl get libs and courts first.
The question, imho, is not so much how I can benefit from keeping NHJ alive, but more how I can benefit from taking his cities. Will that really help me? At what cost? And if I do so, when should I do so?
Plan:
1. spread bud, build forges, libs and courts (thus head for court-tech).
2. Head for astronomy to make contact with all others asap?
3. Head for versailles tech (forgot the name, it's the islam tech too)
4. Have a shot at Versailles. (I have hardly built any great persons yet, sho I should be able to get an engineer)
Whatever city is not doing point one, can build soldiers?
Where to build FP and possibly Versailles?
Don't be shy guys and have a peak if you want. PW is 12qwaszx . IP-address should be in open thread.
There can be a lot gained if you are clinical in your attack and take out his major cities early, then its just a matter of mopping up. I don't know if you can see NHJ demo graphs or not so i will only say if you have a large production lead you can build infrasturcture and keep up on the military front.
But it doesn't have to be right away. You got a lucky break with the other continent (from the looks of the open thread) breaking out into all out war. My humble suggestion would be along with targeting Divine Right a path for either rifleman or grenadiers is a priority. A few turns some along with a few upgrades will give you enough of advantage (if NHJ doesn't have them) for a quick victory
Darkness
23-03-2009, 13:44
I have a 10-turn cancellation deal with NHJ :) .
But my economy sucks big time. I feel I shoudl get libs and courts first.
The question, imho, is not so much how I can benefit from keeping NHJ alive, but more how I can benefit from taking his cities. Will that really help me? At what cost? And if I do so, when should I do so?
Plan:
1. spread bud, build forges, libs and courts (thus head for court-tech).
2. Head for astronomy to make contact with all others asap?
3. Head for versailles tech (forgot the name, it's the islam tech too)
4. Have a shot at Versailles. (I have hardly built any great persons yet, sho I should be able to get an engineer)
Whatever city is not doing point one, can build soldiers?
Where to build FP and possibly Versailles?
Don't be shy guys and have a peak if you want. PW is 12qwaszx . IP-address should be in open thread.
Leave NHJ alive: Potential research partner. But also potential enemy, who might strike at you when you're attention is elsewhere. Considering your style of play, I do not expect you to play the rest of this game without another war. Killing NHJ very late in the game will serve no purpose, but if you leave him alive, can you really be certain of peace on the homefront if you take your best units to another land mass to pick a fight ?
Killing NHJ now: Secure island. More land -> more GNP and MFG. Unfortunately also more corruption, but FP and Versailles should help with that...
My personal choice would be to kill NHJ as soon as the economy could handle the extra load of cities...
Definately get your economy online before killing NHJ, especially if you have a 10 turn cancellation deal. I think you should be able to have something reasonabling an economy within 20 turns, considering the production edge that you should have right now. The only problem is that NHJ isn't stupid. He'll realize that killing him is the most logical move for you so he'll prepare for that in all likelyhood.
1. Add marketplaces to the list. Also very beneficial for a growing economy, IMHO.
2. Definately make contact ASAP. That will reduce the costs of the techs that they have for you.
3. Tech for Versailles in Divine Right.
4. Engineers are a huge plus if you're going for Versailles. One engineer should take care of 80-90 percent of the required hammers.
Build the FP ASAP, probably in the lands that used to be Robi's. Perhaps in Robigrad? Or a city just north of Robigrad?
Versailles somewhere on what used to be the border of Matrix/NHJ, I think....
I wouldn't mind seeing city screens from your top 3, 4, or 5 cities. Maybe your city adviser screen as well. Also, I agree with Darkness 100%.
I'll make some screenies, when home.
Right now, I'm about 4 turns away from engineering, at 30% science, running a 20 gold defecit, while having 400 gold cash. The cash comes mostly form conquered cities. Robi's land is fully developed by workers. Matrix' kand is more than fiar, but my own land is somehwat behind. When I took over from Plux, he hah way too few workers...
Anyway, the conclusion is that my economt, in total, sucks big time.
WHen enigineering is there, I will head for Code of Laws. And then? First Civil Service, to help my capitol? Or take the Astronomy path first? or the Divine Right path first? What tech do I need for markets?
Darkness
24-03-2009, 09:42
WHen enigineering is there, I will head for Code of Laws. And then? First Civil Service, to help my capitol? Or take the Astronomy path first? or the Divine Right path first? What tech do I need for markets?
Immediate tech path should depend on what you need first. Code of laws should indeed have high priority. Markets needs bureaucracy, right? Could be wrong about the details here, I haven't played normal BTS in 5 months... Civil service also could be usefull if you need farms to spread irrigation possibilities. Bureaucracy is not a good option, IMHO, that will beef up the capital and increase the maintenance costs of teh rest of the empire.
How many techs do you lack for astronomy? And for divine right?
I'll make some screenies, when home.
Right now, I'm about 4 turns away from engineering, at 30% science, running a 20 gold defecit, while having 400 gold cash. The cash comes mostly form conquered cities. Robi's land is fully developed by workers. Matrix' kand is more than fiar, but my own land is somehwat behind. When I took over from Plux, he hah way too few workers...
So thats why you cried about missing out on my workers;)
Also from what your saying had i had the material to keep your inital invasion out i would have survived, since i was within 6 turns of getting CS and therefore maceman. I would have been rooling NHJ and yourself back in no time. I'm just going to go off and sulk now.
Fuck the arsehole who thinks this message is too short.
Darkness
25-03-2009, 23:34
That doesn't look too bad really. Plenty of potential for growth. With enough food and cottages, combined with courthouses, libraries, marketplaces and forges you should have a decent economy in 20 turns or so. Do you have enough workers (now that you've taken some from Robi) ?
-Engineering in 1
-Then CoL (490) in 5 at 30% science
-For Bureaucracy I need CS (1120), but I won't do that, I guess. I would cost 8 gold per turn, but I would gain 15 commerce and 10 hammers. Worht, ok, but not for 1120 science beakers.
-For markets, I need Currency (560), which also adds a trade route for each city. That's worth it! Not?
-For Astronomy (2800), I need calendar (490), compass (560) & optics (840).
-For Divine Right (1680), I need Theocracy (700).
At 30% science, Eng, CoL, Cur, Theo and DR are there in 42 turns. It's worth a shot, I think. What do you guys think?
That doesn't look too bad really. Plenty of potential for growth. With enough food and cottages, combined with courthouses, libraries, marketplaces and forges you should have a decent economy in 20 turns or so. Do you have enough workers (now that you've taken some from Robi) ?
Robi killed his workers...... Stapelburg is on workers right now.
Darkness
26-03-2009, 07:56
My thoughts:
- Definately currency after CoL.
- Better build lots of workers (1 per city is a good number to aim for)
- Prioritize astronomy before divine right. You need the contacts, because that will reduce tech costs for you. Staying isolated is not an option, IMHO
- Kill NHJ as soon as you can run 50% science without a deficit. The longer you wait, the longer he has to prepare.
- FP in Robigrad
- Versailles in Mecca
- Try to get to the happyness caps in your cities as soon as possible.
What kind of resources do you have, and are there any more you can claim?
My thoughts:
- Definately currency after CoL.
- Better build lots of workers (1 per city is a good number to aim for)
- Prioritize astronomy before divine right. You need the contacts, because that will reduce tech costs for you. Staying isolated is not an option, IMHO
- Kill NHJ as soon as you can run 50% science without a deficit. The longer you wait, the longer he has to prepare.
- FP in Robigrad
- Versailles in Mecca
- Try to get to the happyness caps in your cities as soon as possible.
What kind of resources do you have, and are there any more you can claim?
-Actually, I have already put Currency BEFORE CoL. I will get it in 2 turns, running a bigger deficit. It will bring me 15 extra trade routes immediately! There might be 2 or 3 cities that will start 1 or 2 turn later with their courthouse productions.
-1 worker per city is actually a minimum, imho. Plux was terribly short. During the war, I had one city on workers all the time.
-Astro or DR? See below.
-I garee with war production, when I can run 50% science
-FB In Robigrad was also my pick!
-Versailles in Mecca too! If I wouldn’t have been married, I would ask you Darkness!
-What are happyness caps? Happyness is not a problem at this stage. An annoying barbarian archer has destroyed mt fur camps up north, but they should be online in 2 turns. Calendar will bring my either silk or spices from Winschoten. That’s it I think. I have all types of fish on-line now, or I will have soon.
This brings it down to Astronomy or Divine Right.
What you might not know, is that I already have contact with 2 players from the other island right now (Beam & Barbu, the Quebequois Bas).
Though I can only get trade routes when actually having Astro, contacts can be made earlier. If the science bonus works (I think it does) without Astro, there is less need to head for Astro asap. Apart from, running to Astro first, decreases the chances to get Versailles.
Getting to DR is a lot cheaper too! And Theo is useful for war production:
http://civduelzone.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=215&d=1238059380
Darkness
26-03-2009, 10:24
If I wouldn’t have been married, I would ask you Darkness!
Scary... Funny, but scary... ;)
-What are happyness caps?
Ah, sorry. Maybe somewhat unclear. Happyness cap: Maximum population in city without unhappy people.
This brings it down to Astronomy or Divine Right.
What you might not know, is that I already have contact with 2 players from the other island right now (Beam & Barbu, the Quebequois Bas).
Though I can only get trade routes when actually having Astro, contacts can be made earlier. If the science bonus works (I think it does) without Astro, there is less need to head for Astro asap. Apart from, running to Astro first, decreases the chances to get Versailles.
Getting to DR is a lot cheaper too! And Theo is useful for war production.
Astronomy Divine Right
Calendar 490 Theocracy 700
compass 560 Divine Right 1680
Optics 840
Astronomy 2800
Total 4690 2380
Ah, that may change some things. Then by divine right would seem a good choice. Can you get a great engineer to rush it partially? Like by using a forge with an engineer assigned. Or have you already popped too many great people to make this feasible?
Just letting you know I'm lurking :)
Shabbaman
27-03-2009, 09:04
Fuck the arsehole who thinks this message is too short.
:(
I just come to think of it: If I want Versailles in Mecca, I really need to have Mecca first. Though I trust I can get it, it won't be that easy....
When I came home last night around 2:30 am, not sober, I accepted Barbu's worldmap swap:
The good news is that I have now trade routes with Barbu and Beam. I'm a bit puzzled by it, but it helps a lot.
Darkness
29-03-2009, 10:26
The good news is that I have now trade routes with Barbu and Beam. I'm a bit puzzled by it, but it helps a lot.
IIRC you need to see the cities on your world map to have trade routes. Just having contact with the civ is not enough...
IIRC you need to see the cities on your world map to have trade routes. Just having contact with the civ is not enough...
That might very well be.
However, I am sure one needs either Astronomy or a sea (not ocean) connection too! And I cannot see one in the west. I guess there is one in the east. Anyway, heading for Astro is quite useless now.
That might very well be.
However, I am sure one needs either Astronomy or a sea (not ocean) connection too! And I cannot see one in the west. I guess there is one in the east. Anyway, heading for Astro is quite useless now.
Maybe just one of two partners needs Astro?
Shabbaman
30-03-2009, 11:34
Perhaps your religion spread across the pond, or vice versa. I had that in rtw (1 or 2, dunno), where my religion spread to Beam in southern america.
Well, no maintenance, that's nice! But why? Can I steer on it?
Darkness
31-03-2009, 08:09
Well, no maintenance, that's nice! But why? Can I steer on it?
"We love the king day". Should be over next turn...
"We love the king day". Should be over next turn...
Well, figured that, but how is it triggered?
Anyway, I have another question. The gold hill NE of Robi gradis 53% Egyptian, but not mine....
Darkness
01-04-2009, 10:03
Well, figured that, but how is it triggered?
I think it randomly happens in a city that does not have any unhappy people.
Anyway, I have another question. The gold hill NE of Robi gradis 53% Egyptian, but not mine....
That one's odd. I honestly have no idea. Perhaps it will change next turn and the borders are one turn lagging behind the percentages for some strange reason?
To get a we love the king day your city or cities need to be;
-size 8 or higher
-no food lost to unhealthiness
-no angry citizens
If i remember correctly there is about a 10-20% chance of it happening every turn a city meets the conditions. It can only happen in 1 city per turn, even if you have several cities that are eligible, but the more cities you have meeting the conditions the more likely you'll have a city celebrating.
Update:
-Since I do not need astronomy at all, I chose the Divine Right path. Theology is now known and I can run a 40% science rate (adding 3 gpt), which should give me DR in 10 turns.
-This turn, I got my 2nd great person. Once more a prophet.
-I had hoped for a great engineer. Now I have two options. I can start a GA, when I begin the production of Versailles, or I can add 1200 science points to DR.
-Whatever it is I am gonna do, I will try to build Versailles in Robigrad. The original plan was to build the FP there and Versailles in Mecca. However, Mecca is not mine yet :) .
Good, interesting spoiler. But I won't comment, because I've substituted for NHJ. [tongue]
It makes sense to build Versailles right away, thats a world wonder where FP is a national one
-Divine Right is mine next turn. I used the great prolet to rush it a bit. Robigrad will start on Versailles next turn.
-Since about three turns, I can see Beam's demographics. His powerbar is wildy going up and down: he is really at war.
-In 4 turns or so, my trireme will meet Akots. From there it will sail to Barbu (already a contact and probably not existing much longer, Ynnek, Beam and BCLG.
Shabbaman
07-04-2009, 19:32
De grote proleet?
De grote proleet?
Yeah, that was no typo.
Don't ask if I cannot chose!
http://civduelzone.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=225&d=1239139981
Anyway, I'm pretty sure I got first to Divine Right :) .
From BCLG:
As you'll notice from the main thread i am allied with barbu against akots, ynnek and beam. Now on the face of it i look in quite a strong position, i'm not going to lie that my gnp is number one but in every other department i am being beaten by Beam or akots. Now the simple fact of the matter is if i can't save barbu then the three of them will be able to turn their attention to me and you'll be left dealing with all 3 of them as they seem to be a close knit alliance. What i'm asking is whether you'd be able to intervene at anypoint soon? i can personally tell you that both ynnek and akots have their cities closest to you very poorly defended (spies) whilst i imagine Beam has much of his troops enroute to the main continent.
Anyways it's understandable if you don't fancy being involved but akots will be the main beneficiary when he takes barbu's lands and he is the only one in a feasable position to take mine (corruption etc) so you'll be dealing with an empire of at least double the population with its infrastructure very much more advanced. Whilst if you do get some form of lead then they'll pick you off from the sea so imo it would be better to pre-emp them, i'm more than happy to sign a peace treaty with you for the rest of the game if you so wish.
Darkness
08-04-2009, 09:47
From BCLG:
As you'll notice from the main thread i am allied with barbu against akots, ynnek and beam. Now on the face of it i look in quite a strong position, i'm not going to lie that my gnp is number one but in every other department i am being beaten by Beam or akots. Now the simple fact of the matter is if i can't save barbu then the three of them will be able to turn their attention to me and you'll be left dealing with all 3 of them as they seem to be a close knit alliance. What i'm asking is whether you'd be able to intervene at anypoint soon? i can personally tell you that both ynnek and akots have their cities closest to you very poorly defended (spies) whilst i imagine Beam has much of his troops enroute to the main continent.
Anyways it's understandable if you don't fancy being involved but akots will be the main beneficiary when he takes barbu's lands and he is the only one in a feasable position to take mine (corruption etc) so you'll be dealing with an empire of at least double the population with its infrastructure very much more advanced. Whilst if you do get some form of lead then they'll pick you off from the sea so imo it would be better to pre-emp them, i'm more than happy to sign a peace treaty with you for the rest of the game if you so wish.
Understandable from BCLG's point of view, but I don't think you're in a position to help him.
The logistics would be dreadfull and you've really got more pressing issues, like NHJ. What's the status of the invasion of Arabia?
You're not even close to astronomy, you don't even have maces. A very easy decision for you to say sorry but no thanks
You're not even close to astronomy, you don't even have maces. A very easy decision for you to say sorry but no thanks
Well,
We do NOT need astronomy. Alexandria (for quite some time Japanese ;) ) has included an ocean tile within its cultural borders, next to coast tiles linking it all to the other islands.
But apart from that, it would be a hell of an operation to bring a decent force to Akots' land. And if succesful, it would rather annoy him than hurt him, I guess.
So, I have already told BCLG I am in no position to come to his aid.
But that doesn't stop us from thinking about a long-term strategy.
Beam has his own island in the far northwest. The main island has now Ynnek in the north, Akots in the southeast and BCLG in the southwest. Barbu is in the middle and he is being hammered by Ynnek and Akots.
Here's the point: Beam has nothing to gain with his very active assistance of Ynnek and Akots, apart from bashing the leader (in points). So, what is his agenda?
Anyway, on the short term, I will focus on wiping out NHJ [:D] .
What's the status of the invasion of Arabia?
I'm still mostly building courthouses, libs and markets. But it won't tkae that long, before I will shift to full-war-mode again. Right now, only the capitol is producing a few elephants.
Update:
I have met Akots and opened up trade routes. In about 10 turns I will meet Ynnek. That seems to be the right moment to tell NHJ he is gonna be slaughtered :) .
So, war in about 20 turns?
NHJ has converted to organsied religion afew turns back. Rather late, I guess.
Beam is the first to liberalism. He is far ahead....
Darkness
12-04-2009, 11:24
Update:
I have met Akots and opened up trade routes. In about 10 turns I will meet Ynnek.
Good. That should help your economy. :)
So, war in about 20 turns?
As soon as you can afford it and have a good sized army to quickly decide the conflict. If you think that is in 20 turns, then definately go for it
As soon as you can afford it and have a good sized army to quickly decide the conflict. If you think that is in 20 turns, then definately go for it
NHJ is rather weak. I should be able to totally overrun him.
I got feudalism and immediately switched to vassalage. I'm somewhat into war production now. A dozen cities are close to finishing courthouses, harbours, granaries or barracks. In 5 turns, I will cancel the 10 turn peace deal with NHJ. I won't switch to Theo-crazy soon. Apart from the dozen cities still on buildings, I do not want to delay Versailles yet. I'll check if switching is ok in a 5 turns.
Here's an overview, with the most productive city on top
http://civduelzone.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=232&stc=1&d=1239772021
Darkness
15-04-2009, 09:07
That looks pretty solid. Definately able to handle the expansion into NHJ's territory. :)
Good job on the quick Versailles build. Now hope someone doesn't get it first (by GE)...
Just be sure you can be as swift about it as possible. War will set you back, although a necessary evil in this case. A long drawn out war might kill your chances though.
I'm surprised Kalemegdan isn't first in production, you must be doing something wrong :p
And three of my cities in the top 7, it'll be 4 when if capture Reeniville. Oh i feel like crying again....
I'm surprised Kalemegdan isn't first in production, you must be doing something wrong :p
And three of my cities in the top 7, it'll be 4 when if capture Reeniville. Oh i feel like crying again....
LMAO, the guy who was conquered is telling the conqueror he did something wrong! :p
LMAO, the guy who was conquered is telling the conqueror he did something wrong! :p
Takes balls to do that [8] [8]
Good job on the quick Versailles build. Now hope someone doesn't get it first (by GE)... I haven't met BCLG yet. But none of the others have knowledge of DR. Only Beam knows theology, which is needed first.
I'm surprised Kalemegdan isn't first in production, you must be doing something wrong :p
And three of my cities in the top 7, it'll be 4 when if capture Reeniville. Oh i feel like crying again....
Robigrad is fully maximised on production. More cities will be managed the same way in 2 or three turns.
Ynnek has accepted to open trade routes, so I do not have any further use of Arab (NHJ) trade routes. I cancelled our deals.
It is now turn 179. From turn 189, we can go to war. This does not per se mean I will. However, I feel I should hit asap.
Ynnek has accepted to open trade routes, so I do not have any further use of Arab (NHJ) trade routes. I cancelled our deals.
It is now turn 179. From turn 189, we can go to war. This does not per se mean I will. However, I feel I should hit asap.
You should hit hard while the others are bogged down fighting BCLG, this is really only chance of catching up
killercane
19-04-2009, 02:22
Ynnek has accepted to open trade routes, so I do not have any further use of Arab (NHJ) trade routes. I cancelled our deals.
It is now turn 179. From turn 189, we can go to war. This does not per se mean I will. However, I feel I should hit asap.
Kick his ass, Sea Bass(tiaan)!
I went into war mode a couple of tursn ago. Here's the powergraph:
http://civduelzone.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=237&d=1240420087
And here's the plan:
http://civduelzone.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=238&d=1240420098
15 Elephants, 8 maces, 3 pikes, 2 crossbows, 5 cats, 6 trebs will be moved next to Veendam, which now has 1 mace, 1 longbow, 4 cross and 2 cats. Thta's basically it. I also have quite a decent force in the south, to defend Robigrad and, once Versailles is finished, move out to take some cities.
Have you noticed that NHJ is a muslim nation, and that your staging area is muslim as well?
Have you noticed that NHJ is a muslim nation, and that your staging area is muslim as well?
That means he might see my forces. I honoustly do not see how that would help him much :) .
Shabbaman
22-04-2009, 23:18
Well, suicide bombers and all that...
That means he might see my forces. I honoustly do not see how that would help him much :) .
Not an enormous amount of help. But depending on how long you've had them sitting there, he could have noticed already. And been prepping defenses sooner than you would have liked. His power graph might not be as good as yours, but a concentrated defensive force with enough cats could be tough.
I've moved in my troops. NHJ has added some pikes and muskets to defend Veendam. I only spotted 2 cats. Veendam should be mine next turn.
Something else:
I need a back-up for this weekend. Probably not needed, but I can't be sure. Anyone interested?
Rik Meleet
24-04-2009, 18:28
sorry, too involved in NHJ's spoiler...
Full War Now: The Battle of Veendam
NHJ decided to attack my stack with a bunch of Camels. I was counting the exact losses, but the game kicked me out. Anyway, I lost one War Elephant and NHJ lost 6 units or so.
He did send most of his forces to defend Veendam. I expected some muskets, but NHJ was also smart enough to bring in some pikemen.
Veendam is now Egyptian. I felt lucky, but I haven't made up the precise numbers.
In the south, Robigrad is 5 turns from completing Versailles. There is a reasonable forces there. NHJ has withdrawn most of his troops from Najran to the front. When Versailles is done, I will create a second front.
Turn 195; 1395 AD
Versailles is mine, since 2 turns.
Apart from Veendam, I ahve alos conquered Sappemeer in the north. The wounded units from Veendam are healed (6 elephants, 5 maces, 2 crossbows, 1 pike and 4 trebs) and now moving to Damascus, along with the troops that were not in battle for Sappemeer (3 elephants, 1 mace, 3 crossbows, 4 cats and 4 trebs). Next turn, htey are moved next to Damsacus.
Damsacus is defended by 1 mace, 1 camel, 4 crossbows, 2 pikes and a 1 cat.
Reeniville, which is 3 tiles from Veendam (still defended by 4 elephants, 2 crossbows and 1 pike) has 2 muskets, 2 longbows, 1 crossbow and 1 pike. NHJ has also collected some troops on a tile east of Reeniville: 1 mace, cross, 1 pike. 1 elephant, 1 treb and 1 cat. Both this bunch and the bunch in Reenivilles cannot reach Damsacus in 1 turn. They can however reach Najran (2 long, 2 crosses, 3 pikes, 1 mace, 1 cat) in the south, in 1 turn.
My toops from Robigrad (3 elephants, 6 maces, 2 pikes, 5 cats, 1 treb) can be planted next to Najran, any time I like.
NHJ really MUST make some choices this turns.
Nearly of of his troops are more suitable for defending than attaccking. Also his promotions are focused on city defense. He hardly has any siege weapons.
http://civduelzone.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=241&d=1241073375
I really need a sub for the coming week! Anyone?
barbu1977
30-04-2009, 19:43
Sorry, I'm not allowed to sub. :)
Sorry man, I made the map, and am pretty up to date on spoilers.
Darkness
30-04-2009, 22:35
Sorry Bas, but I've read all the spoilers for this game, including NHJ's...
I could take over. I got my laptop up and running again just recently.
I could take over. I got my laptop up and running again just recently.
That seems the logical way to go anyway!
I'll send you more info soon.
NHJ has brought most of his wandering troops to Najran in the south. Reeniville is now poorly defended.
-I took Damascus after a long bloody battle. No Arab survivors whatsoever and I have 30 (wounded) units in or around Damsacus. NHJ did get a great general in the process. The good news is that, once these 30 have healed and reinforced, the road is open to conquer his hinterland easily.
-A stack of 11 is now heading for Reeniville, which has two defenders. My troops will be planted next to his city next turn.
-I did not strike Najran in the south. I only brought the defenses to 0%. The city is on a hill and NHJ has 11 units in it: longbows, pikes, musket and crossbows. I have 12 units, mostly maces and elephants, + 5 cats and 1 treb. I did leave all my units in place, to prevend NHJ from transporting his troops to Reeniville, but I don't think attacking would be wise next turn.
Given the early success are you still in an all war production mode or are you starting to sneak in some infrastructure builds?
Well, I did lose quite some unots trying to take Najran. I knew I wouldn't succeed, but I figured it would be best to make it bloody, since that will hurt NRJ more than me.
NHJ abandoned Reeniville, so I easily took it. The stack for Reenville is now heading for Najran. The stack in Damascus is healing and will be sent to Mecca.
I think full war mode can be undone in 3 turns or so.
Sounds like good news. Its especially helpful if you can start building non war things in the meantime. Hopefully BCLG can keep the others occupied for a while yet although judging from is freefalling score it wont be as long as you need.
HNJ is almost out. Next turn, I will move units next to his last city, the turn after he is gone. I was far far stronger, so the war wasn't that interesting. NHJ did decide though to give up a few cities, to cencentrate defense on his capitol. This resulted in a bloody war. War weariness is pretty high now.
In 3 turns, I will switch to democracy/emancipation. I'm the first to do so. I do have some cathing-up to do with other techs though.
The island is mine, My economy is steamrolling forward and I am gaining a lead in points.
I'm still a few techs behind, but I can be sure I will catch up.
So, what's next?
Does anyone have any ideas?
Rik Meleet
30-05-2009, 17:15
Can you post an overview including screenies ?
A total overview and some F9 screenies:
Akots and Ynnek (Shabba) have shown a small boost in power, but I guess it's just caused by a tech or so.
I cannot see either player gain a lot by force, except Akots and Beam scrweing over Ynnek. The best thiung for the game would be a Akots-Ynnek-Beam attack on me. Thta would be spectactular and I should have a chance.
Anyway, what are the options? Domination or Conquest seems tough. Space victories are gay. Diplomatic victories are worse than having to puke&shit at the same time.
So I don't know really.
There is one thing I could use inout for: espionage. I usually turn it off, because I dislike the idea of enemies destroying towns (when I don't have enemies....). The consequense is that I know crap about it. I guess there is a whole world behind it. If anyone has tips on espionage, they are welcome
Rik Meleet
01-06-2009, 15:30
Beam has already performed an naval assault -> that means he has transport-ships. That would mean for you to be on the lookout for invasions and be careful with preparing for your own; since he already seems to have a lead in naval capabilities.
OTOH blue seems a reachable target...
Still, considering the tech situation and the state of your empire a couple of turns playing buildup wouldn't harm as well. Some reconnaissance units to get an early warning for an invasion should help you with protecting your island. Buildup, get superior units and strike at whoever seems to be a good target at the time. That way you use your strongest asset; your large landsize and island-safety; to the max.
BTW,
I have 10-turn peace deals with all players.
Interesting:
Beam's power has gone up.
http://www.civduelzone.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=255&d=1243882717
You what caused that bump in the power graph? Looks like an upgrade of a few units, being so steep.
If I were you I'd build up my economy and get a tech lead, should be no problem now. I'd reconsider that space race victory as it seems the most easy win now. Saves you the hassle of setting up a naval assault and as long asthe other island is balanced a bit there's no way they can stop you. Thing become different when the balance of power on the other island changes. You can't allow one of them to grow too powerfull.
Beam & Akots have shown a rise in power of the last few turns. Nothing alarming yet, but something must be on.
There was also a vote on a religious victory. That is just gay........
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