View Full Version : CDZCOL I: Row the boat!
Shabbaman
08-10-2008, 19:35
The game has started!
Settings:
English with John Adams, normal speed, standard map, Conquistador (because we [:O] )
Participants (in order):
Shabbaman
Matrix
Socralynnek
Stapel
Darkness
ProPain
Akots
Killercane
can you guys post the original save so I can play along?
Shabbaman
08-10-2008, 19:42
Turn 2: We found a land! That's the Indies!
Turn 3: Pity, there are incans next to the corn. No option to put their head on a pole...
Turn 4: Nice, a source of silver. Plus fur. No food in sight, a pity.
Turn 8: Founded the city near fish and two tobacco.
Turn 9: Added the soldier to the city.
Darkness
08-10-2008, 20:14
How about founding the first city in between the corn and the furs (you always get that one for free from the natives) and the second city near the silver?
Shabbaman
08-10-2008, 20:26
Good suggestion. You want me to play again? The city we have now can produce a lot of food and tobacco. Forest is halfway decent, plus we have some ore. In hindsight I could just as well have settled near the other fish, but I wanted to keep options open for the silver. 3 silver btw.
socralynnek
08-10-2008, 20:26
Nice. Dock is almost always my first build.
We need something to sell, so next colonist (we'll get one from Europe soon) should found near Silver if not he is a Scout.
Or what do you think?
Shabbaman
08-10-2008, 22:20
Well, we can sell cigars.
socralynnek
08-10-2008, 23:15
You are right. Probably one thing I am starting with too late in the game normally. manufacturing.
Socrates
08-10-2008, 23:26
Noobish lurking, out of curiosity.
Does population grow like in Civ, ie. with food harvested from land and stored in granary box ?
Is this a random map, or do you always get to play a real map ?
Noobish lurking, out of curiosity.
Does population grow like in Civ, ie. with food harvested from land and stored in granary box ?
Sort of but the box is always 200 food big so it goes a lot slower than in Civ. You also get colonists lining up in Europe for crosses produced (modeling the religious unrest in Europe at that time) and you can buy em in europe.
Is this a random map, or do you always get to play a real map ?
Prolly a rdn map, but you have some scenario/fixed maps as well.
Shabbaman
09-10-2008, 09:23
You can also get converted indians. The nice thing is that you can ship the food to other colonies, or even buy food from the indians or from the king. So if food is cheap you can get cheap colonists.
BTW, I listed matrix as the next in line, but as far as I'm concerned the first one to pick it up is next in line. This list comes from the other thread, and I only put me on top because I started.
Darkness
09-10-2008, 09:44
Nice start Shabba. If we don't get a scout at the docks we should found the silver city with the next colonist, and after that the city between the corn and the furs (although we'll either have to pay for that or anger Monty. And given Monty's psychotic tendencies, I'd reccommend paying).
Shabbaman
09-10-2008, 11:09
We're on an island and he got 1 city there, can't we just kill him? In hindsight I feel stupid not settling next to the corn, I forgot that in col2 you get the land from the indians. We'd have a lot more lumber as well. Anyway, hopefully that indian city teaches fishermen, we're going to need them.
I'm not too sure about the silver: is it going to be worth it? The yield is disappointing.
Darkness
09-10-2008, 11:47
We're on an island and he got 1 city there, can't we just kill him? In hindsight I feel stupid not settling next to the corn, I forgot that in col2 you get the land from the indians. We'd have a lot more lumber as well. Anyway, hopefully that indian city teaches fishermen, we're going to need them.
I'm not too sure about the silver: is it going to be worth it? The yield is disappointing.
Islands suck in col2, so that's not very good news... Can we get 4-5 cities on the island?
Killing Monty is an option, but I'd really like to exploit the village's teaching capacities first.
Silver is great. If we mine the source and set an expert silver miner on it, the yield should be 8 silver per turn. All that town would need is a docks (and possibly a warehouse), a silver miner and a fisherman. Seems a great investment for 152 (8*19) gold per turn, since the prices of silver don't drop as fast as they did in the original game.
I'll play my next turns now...
I made a screenshot of the entire island we're on. (see first screenshot)
Turn 9
- Quick calculation: with three turns of chopping I'll have enough wood to finish the docks with a carpenter instead of lumberjack.
- The caravel's going back to pick up the next immigrant, which will be there next turn.
Turn 10
- Immigrant: Seasoned Scout.
Turn 12
- Switched lumberjack to carpenter. Building done in six turns.
- Met Samuel de Champlain. He doesn't have a city yet.
Turn 14
- Caravel arrived in Europe. Next turn another immigrant (carpenter, missionary or silver miner), so I wait.
Turn 15
- It's a carpenter! Loaded him in and went back to Europe.
Turn 17
- Docks finished, and the ship is back in the New World.
- I haven't moved or done anything yet, except that I had to give a new building order in Shabbaville. I put it on a church, but that can be changed and is open for debate. Notice that the carpenter needs to be switched to lumberjack, especially since we have an expert carpenter now. (see second screenshot)
- Where do we drop the scout? There's an ancient ruin next to the Aztec city, but we could also drop it somewhere in the west. (see third screenshot) I'd say go the the ruin first.
Shabbaman
09-10-2008, 14:34
We are lucky with a carpenter and a silver miner coming up. Balances my poor city placement.
socralynnek
09-10-2008, 15:49
I guess I'll be able to play today in the evening.
So, I agree with Scout moving to ruins and then visit the city.
Should we wait for the next one in Europe to pop up (maybe the miner, otherwise maybe buy him if we have enough Tobacco to sell) until founding near Silver?
Maybe depends on whether a colonist can learn to become a fisherman.
Church is fine. We have to use our bonus. On the other hand, we surely need a Warehouse at some point for Tobacco if we don't pick it up regularly.
And I think we should build a mission quite early. I think it is worth it (but nothing to do now).
Silver is great. If we mine the source and set an expert silver miner on it, the yield should be 8 silver per turn. .
I;m pretty convinced that an expert silver miner will not generate 8 silver, more likely just 3. Or that's what my 2 expert silver miners managed to scrounge from the silver deposits the 2 games I started. But maybe I;m doing something wrong.
socralynnek
09-10-2008, 16:43
I had 8 silver per turn with a mine + an expert miner in my last game.
So, at least it is possible.
I;m pretty convinced that an expert silver miner will not generate 8 silver, more likely just 3. Or that's what my 2 expert silver miners managed to scrounge from the silver deposits the 2 games I started. But maybe I;m doing something wrong.
Something must be missing there. Either it's not a silver resource, or you're not using an expert silver miner, but three really seems to low to me.
Silver resources are really scarce in this game, and we should take advantage of the fact that it's so close in our proximity.
Darkness
09-10-2008, 19:33
I;m pretty convinced that an expert silver miner will not generate 8 silver, more likely just 3. Or that's what my 2 expert silver miners managed to scrounge from the silver deposits the 2 games I started. But maybe I;m doing something wrong.
Base yield on silver is 3, mining gets +1, which means any colonist should get at least 4 silver. An expert gets twice that, so that is 8 silver per turn.
I've played 3 games so far (got silver in 2) and I had 8 silver per deposit in both games...
socralynnek
10-10-2008, 01:30
Turn 17 : 1508 AD - Switch Colonist to Lumberjack.
Boat moves towards our island.
Turn 18: Price of trade goods has risen. Wow.
Turn 20: We have a Silver Miner waiting in Europe!
Get 182 gold on the ruin.
Move boat closer to Europe to pick him up asap.
Turn 21: The king asks for gold. I decided to anger him. As far as I have read the consequences are not that bad, are they?
The scout talks to the chief. They give us 372 g and can provide Expert Cotton Planters.
Turn 22: The caravel goes to Europe.
turn 23: Joining the Scout. Only until the ship is back.
Turn 24: Buy 100 tools and load the silver miner.
Joining the carpenter. 6 turns til church.
Saving...
Things to dscuss: Should one colonist pick up the tools and go working as a pioneer?
Should the Scout do something else than adding food?
I believe that when you anger the king, he'll ask for more and more frequently. And when refusing again means having a "silver party" or "cigar party", that's not what we want.
Anyway, I think it's a good idea to have a poineer to upgrade the land.
The scout could be making cigars instead of food. Or he could help the carpenter, since we have a surplus of lumber.
Shabbaman
10-10-2008, 09:11
I believe that when you anger the king, he'll ask for more and more frequently. And when refusing again means having a "silver party" or "cigar party", that's not what we want.
I haven't really found a connection between the king's anger and tax rates. Usually I don't give gold if he asks for too much, but I give in to tax increases. Unless I can hold an "ore party" instead of a "silver party", but in most cases my most valuable trade resource would go into the harbor. I can live with anger, but I can't live with 100 tons of silver sitting in the bottom of my port.
Anyway, about the pioneer: a cabin on the wood source would be nice, but that'd take 20 turns. I'd only make a pioneer early in the game when it's useless in the city or if I'm running low on food.
I haven't really found a connection between the king's anger and tax rates. Usually I don't give gold if he asks for too much, but I give in to tax increases. Unless I can hold an "ore party" instead of a "silver party", but in most cases my most valuable trade resource would go into the harbor. I can live with anger, but I can't live with 100 tons of silver sitting in the bottom of my port.
.
Me agree. I normally don't give in to cash demands, tax raises that would hamper my trade income are basically unavoidable imo so I kiss rings then.
The old version would usually pick the goods you have the most of in your warehouse so you could easily have a food party or something. I have the impression the king has gotten quite a bit smarter cause in my single player game he invariable has my colonists threathen with a cigar party, which is my primary source of income. Havent found out what triggers the 'party-resource' but I', thinking amount produced/turn has something to do with it.
Shabbaman
11-10-2008, 09:27
[bump]
OK, who's picking up the next turnset? Stapel, you're with us?
Turn 0: No changes. However, I do plan to get our seasened scout ashore. It should never have been in the colony, me thinks.
Here's a dot map.
And another one!
I think the top city will be rather useless. And I think it would be a shame not to farm the corn, so I'm for the yellow dots.
Turn 1 (25) : Nothing
Turn 2 (26) : Our caravel has arrived in the New World.
Turn 3 (27) : Caravel drops off Silver Miner. If we stick to my dot-map, we are a bit short on lumber. I've given it some thought..... I think I'll make a new dot map, where we settle on the wheat (later)..
Turn 4 (28) : Move caravel to Teotihuacan, to see what profit we can make on the tools. We found Silverbastiano. I move a colonist for Shabbaville, equipped wiht tools, to the silver. Shabbaville has about 50 lumber now, so we can miss jack overthere.
Turn 5 (29) : We get 437 gold for our tools (which has cost us 200). The scout is removed from Shabbaville, moves to Teotihuacan and embarks the ship. The ship sails out.
Turn 6 (30) : Our Church is there. Drydock now, to gain more food. Please DO remember to bring in tools!
Turn 7 (31) : Out colonist starts mining the silver. the scout is dropped ashore and we meet Huayna Capac. We also get to see some Fench borders. Our caravel is sailing to Shabbaville, to collect the tobacco and then sail to Europe.
Turn 8 (32) : Our scout enters Cuzco and receives 360 gold from the chief. I consider us to be lucky. The French should have got there earlier. Let's hope our scout can earn us a lot of money!
For the next player:
Don't forget to pick up tools in Europe and sens 50 of them to Shabbaville, before selling the rest to the Indians.
Silverbastiano is building docks. Imho, it should be followed by a drydock, but that will take a while.
Da save and screeny attached.
I think the top city will be rather useless. And I think it would be a shame not to farm the corn, so I'm for the yellow dots.
Well, I actually went along for the red ones. The corn bonus will still be there, iirc (I'll test that soon).
The top city is a most formidable place! It will grow like hell and generate sugar and ore/silver. What makes you think it will be useless????? It's a top spot!
Darkness
11-10-2008, 17:53
Turn 1 (33) – Move scout NW, spot ancient ruins 3 moves away.
Turn 2 (34) – Move scout W, towards ruins. Spot Incan city Tiwanaku. Caravel picks up 75 tobacco in Shabbaville and moves on to Silverbastiano to pick up silver. MM Shabbaville to prevent running out of lumber in 3 turns (we haven’t got any tools to finish the drydock yet anyway).
Turn 3 (35) – Religious unrest provides an expert silver miner in London. Enter Tiwanaku. They teach fishermen and give 146 gold.
Turn 4 (36) – Scout enters ruins and gets Ancient Treasure worth 956 gold.
Turn 5 (37) – Scout meets the Apache. Caravel picks up 36 silver in Silverbastiano and heads for London.
Turn 6 (38) – Scouting…
Turn 7 (39) – Scouting…
Turn 8 (40) – Enter Apache village Tiiis Tseba. The cheap bastards don’t give us anything. They teach tobacco planters.
Turn 9 (41) – Yes, I know this is the next player’s turn but the caravel arrives in London and you can’t save in the Europe screen. I give the silver miner tools (to finish the Drydock in Shabbaville) and I make the criminal into a missionary to establish a mission in the Aztec city. The caravel heads back to the new world with the two guys on board. Immediate pop-up that our scout has met the Arawaks and another pop-up that New France wants to trade world maps. I agree, to see what they have explored yet, so we can focus on areas (and native villages) they haven’t explored yet. Saving game now…
For the next player: The caravel is on the way back to the new world. Try to micromanage the completion of the drydock so it coincides with the arrival of the 50 tools that the silver miner carries. If it finishes (the carpenter is still gathering lumber right now, but it can be set to building again) earlier then that's also not a problem, as the game will remember and when the tools arrive, it will bring a pop-up to ask if you want to finish the drydock now...
Well done Darkness.
I'm happy to see you handled the building efforts correctly!
I see we've got quite some gold now. I would really like to purchase a Galleon soon. What do you guys think about that?
I give the silver miner tools (to finish the Drydock in Shabbaville) and I make the criminal into a missionary to establish a mission in the Aztec city.
This may sound dumb....., but how did ya do that?
I think you double-click or right-click the unit in Europe, and then you can change it's profession (not his expertise, obviously).
I don't understand why we're building a drydock. Does that increase the yield of fishermen? I tought it said +2 food, because it gives the same food bonus as normal docks.
socralynnek
12-10-2008, 01:06
Other option: Drag the colonist to the Garrison tab. Pioneer is one of the options if you have enough tools ready.
I think you double-click or right-click the unit in Europe, and then you can change it's profession (not his expertise, obviously).
Double clicking does the trick.
I don't understand why we're building a drydock. Does that increase the yield of fishermen? I tought it said +2 food, because it gives the same food bonus as normal docks.
Hmmm.... I never really checked that....
Shabbaman
12-10-2008, 14:35
I don't understand why we're building a drydock. Does that increase the yield of fishermen? I tought it said +2 food, because it gives the same food bonus as normal docks.
I'd assume that it would, otherwise that +2 claim is awkardly placed.
I have the impression that +2 food for drydock are the exact same as +2 for plain docks, cause a drydock I built and expected to get even more food from didnt do that.
On the top spot: I agree with Stapel, great spot. Pity there isnt a 2nd sea resource apart from the crab but still sea is the best food tile you can get and the that will give you some cheap and quick new colonists.
btw, picked up the save and playing
turn 1 (41) - scout (66G from ruins) and set carpenter to carpenting to finish drydock
turn 2 (42) - The king want to raise our tax to 3% or we can have the shabbaville tobacco party. So we kiss the pinky ring. We meet Simon Bolivar and have peace with him. He has 2 settlements just like us but only owns 50G.
turn 3 (43) - Price of ore falls to 2G in England. We meet Logan of the Iroquois and we do the peace thing again.
turn 4 (44) - scout, move caravel.
turn 5 (45) - The king demands 1320G. He's quite the comedian, our monarch. I'll tell him to fuck off.
turn 6 (46) - Religious unrest has petty criminals appearing on our docks. A new colonist appears in Shabbaville because we reach 200G. I sent the missionary out to our Indian friends and set the expert silver miner to chopping wood. We would really benefit from expert fishermen and expert tobacco planters but getting them quickly would mean sending our caravel out to the indian villages instead of going back to Europe. Since we're so close to our galleon I put the colonist to work as a tobbaco planter on one of the onus resources. I think we should get the tobacco and silver to Europe, buy a galleon to get our stuff and treasure back to Europe and after that use the caraval to get indians to train a fisherman and a tobacco planter.
turn 7 (47) - We finish the drydock and nothing changes in our foodsurplus. I set the build to schoolhouse so we can train fishermen. We scout another village, again nothing from the cheap indians.
turn 8 (48) - We establish a mission in Teotihuacan
BTW I also think we should settle on the tip of the little island to the west (see attached pic) It has access to 3 bonus food resources and lots of water. If we expert fishermen spam it it will be a great colonist generator.
Darkness
12-10-2008, 22:51
Thanks for clearing up the drydock issue, PP. IMHO the colonopedia is slightly misleading on this.
BTW I also think we should settle on the tip of the little island to the west (see attached pic) It has access to 3 bonus food resources and lots of water. If we expert fishermen spam it it will be a great colonist generator.
Gotta disagree here. That one city would be very difficult to defend in the WOI, and you can't disband cities in Col2 (opposed to Col1, where such cities were very useful).
Thanks for clearing up the drydock issue, PP. IMHO the colonopedia is slightly misleading on this.
Gotta disagree here. That one city would be very difficult to defend in the WOI, and you can't disband cities in Col2 (opposed to Col1, where such cities were very useful).
Why defend it? Let the king have it after it served its purpose or maybe we can give it away to an ally.
The seatiles alone will generate 3*12 + 4*6= 60 food. 7 fishermen eat 14 food, so that's a 46 food surplus excluding the city tile. I'm not sure how the center tile is handled but judging from Shabbaville we'll get 3 food even the tile has only 1 food. That would amount to 49 food a turn which is a colonist every 4,05 turns.
I'm with PP here. A great potential breeding farm!
I have the impression that +2 food for drydock are the exact same as +2 for plain docks, cause a drydock I built and expected to get even more food from didnt do that.
Too bad then... A bit stupid though. But.....,
I would really like to purchase a Galleon soon. What do you guys think about that?
Well, maybe we can build a galleon ourselves :) . It will cost a bit, but I think we need more ships anyway. Also, if we collect treasure on the main land, it's quite hard to bring them over, without cities there.
Darkness
13-10-2008, 09:39
Why defend it? Let the king have it after it served its purpose or maybe we can give it away to an ally.
The seatiles alone will generate 3*12 + 4*6= 60 food. 7 fishermen eat 14 food, so that's a 46 food surplus excluding the city tile. I'm not sure how the center tile is handled but judging from Shabbaville we'll get 3 food even the tile has only 1 food. That would amount to 49 food a turn which is a colonist every 4,05 turns.
I don't know if you can achieve an independence victory if you've lost one of your cities? Never tried this. Maybe you have to take it back before you can win the game?
We could try to give it away though (also never tried this, but the option is in the diplomacy screen so I assume this is possible).
The yield of this city would be tremendous, but it's a serious investment for sure (and it will take quite a bit of time to get it running). And what are we going to do with all those colonists. Education is somewhat expensive in the long term in Col2. Also, the higher the population, the more liberty bells needed, and as a consequence the REF will grow bigger...
But if we try this, then I suggest starting the city ASAP and build a schoolhouse there. That way we could try to educate all the fishermen that we're going to need for the main island in that city.
As an interested observer who doesn't have the game yet, but has played the orginal, as far as i can remember you don't need to keep all your cities. Just need to defeat the kings REF without losing all your cities, although your score wont be as good naturally.
That city will also be a big help when you start building up your army for independence
Shabbaman
13-10-2008, 11:23
But if we try this, then I suggest starting the city ASAP and build a schoolhouse there. That way we could try to educate all the fishermen that we're going to need for the main island in that city.
Hopeless, and a waste. The time required for education gets longer with every graduate. I'd rather save that for expensive and hard to get specialties, like statesman. We'd need the indians to teach expert fishermen.
Darkness
13-10-2008, 11:38
Hopeless, and a waste. The time required for education gets longer with every graduate. I'd rather save that for expensive and hard to get specialties, like statesman. We'd need the indians to teach expert fishermen.
Also true. Which is why I said "If we do this..." I would prefer not to found that city. Then again, getting fisherman from indian villages is going to require some serious logistical effort (getting them to the villages, etc.).
@Robi: But that implies that if the REF captures the city, we'd have to re-take it, as they are sure to garrison it with a few units. And if we have to kill all units we'd have to get our own units onto that island later on to kill these units (which will be hell, considering the REF ships are way better than the ships we can build).
Hopeless, and a waste. The time required for education gets longer with every graduate.Is that a bug or a feature??
A feature, most likely.
But we shouldn't run away from logistical challenges. Population = power in this game.
Shabbaman
13-10-2008, 19:19
Is that a bug or a feature??
Heh. I ask that question to our software developers on a daily basis :D
But we shouldn't run away from logistical challenges. Population = power in this game.
Quite right! Besides that, shipping units is hardly a logistical challenge.
turn 6 (46) - Religious unrest has petty criminals appearing on our docks. A new colonist appears in Shabbaville because we reach 200G. I sent the missionary out to our Indian friends and set the expert silver miner to chopping wood.
Why is that? Isn't it better to mine silver, sell the stuff and buy a lumberjack? 6-8 turns of silver mining = 1 lumberjack, right?
Oh, does anyone have the save now?
Why is that? Isn't it better to mine silver, sell the stuff and buy a lumberjack? 6-8 turns of silver mining = 1 lumberjack, right?
Not this one, it's our second expert silver miner who's living in Shabbaville where there is no silver. We can move him to the tip of the island however to mine there. No deposits but with a mine and being expert he'll still get 4 a turn. But untill that time his keeping his muscles in shape chopping wood.
Well, apparently it is my turn. However, I have very little idea on what to do, so please advise heavily. I might post something after actually looking at the file. For now, I've just downloaded it. Main questions:
What do I need to micromanage?
Where do I put the citizens?
Do I pay the king or not?
What about galleon?
What about trading wagon?
What about lumberjacks since I don't get it.
Also true. Which is why I said "If we do this..." I would prefer not to found that city. Then again, getting fisherman from indian villages is going to require some serious logistical effort (getting them to the villages, etc.).
@Robi: But that implies that if the REF captures the city, we'd have to re-take it, as they are sure to garrison it with a few units. And if we have to kill all units we'd have to get our own units onto that island later on to kill these units (which will be hell, considering the REF ships are way better than the ships we can build).
In the old game the REF were very offensive minded and didn't bother about garrisoning any captured cities, but that could have changed. I always used to build a big navy and try to sink their ships before their troops land. It was much easier than fighting them on land where they had a decent advantage
socralynnek
14-10-2008, 09:25
Do I pay the king or not?
What about galleon?
What about trading wagon?
What about lumberjacks since I don't get it.
-Paying the king? AFAICS (but we are here to learn), there aren't much negative cnsequences if refusing to pay him gold. If he increases taxes, we should still accept, normally the party needs to be with a valuable good.
-Galleon? Don't know how long it takes to bild one. We will probably need one, I guess, building might be better than buying, don't know. How many hammers and tools is it?
-Trading wagon? We will need one. But maybe not for the moment.
-Lumberjacks? I think, Stapel is right. If there comes no lumberjack to the docks anytime soon, we should buy one in Europe. Haven't seen a native town training one in Col 2 so far, but didn't have that many games.
Darkness
14-10-2008, 10:53
-Paying the king? AFAICS (but we are here to learn), there aren't much negative cnsequences if refusing to pay him gold. If he increases taxes, we should still accept, normally the party needs to be with a valuable good.
-Galleon? Don't know how long it takes to bild one. We will probably need one, I guess, building might be better than buying, don't know. How many hammers and tools is it?
-Trading wagon? We will need one. But maybe not for the moment.
-Lumberjacks? I think, Stapel is right. If there comes no lumberjack to the docks anytime soon, we should buy one in Europe. Haven't seen a native town training one in Col 2 so far, but didn't have that many games.
I think he means buying a Galleon in Europe (and to that I would say "yes")
Villages don't teach lumberjacks. So far I've only seen sugar planters (rarely!), cotton planters, tobacco planters, fur trappers, fur taders, farmers, ore miners, fishermen and scouts
Not this one, it's our second expert silver miner who's living in Shabbaville where there is no silver. We can move him to the tip of the island however to mine there. No deposits but with a mine and being expert he'll still get 4 a turn. But untill that time his keeping his muscles in shape chopping wood.
Ah, we got another! Didn't realise that.
Well, apparently it is my turn. However, I have very little idea on what to do, so please advise heavily. I might post something after actually looking at the file. For now, I've just downloaded it. Main questions:
What do I need to micromanage?
Watch out not to run out of raw materials (using 7 lumber a turn, while chopping 1).
Where do I put the citizens?
In the colonies.... Never decide not to use one. That's a waste. New free colonists, servants or criminals can be shipped to native villages, once you find one that teaches fishery.
Do I pay the king or not?No you don't. Nobody sees the benefits of it, so far.
What about galleon?Buy one
What about trading wagon?Not yet
What about lumberjacks since I don't get it.Buy one, but galleon first, I think.
Shabbaman
14-10-2008, 13:37
Personally I'd buy the lumberjack before the Galleon.
digger760
14-10-2008, 14:32
Is there still the option to pay passage for certain units. In the old game you could pay a high cost for getting the exact expert you wanted. Or there was also the option of paying 150 gold and you get three choices, you might get a cheap lumber jack that way if the option is still there
Shabbaman
14-10-2008, 14:44
There is. I think an expert lumberjack costs around 800 gold.
socralynnek
14-10-2008, 15:08
Is there still the option to pay passage for certain units. In the old game you could pay a high cost for getting the exact expert you wanted. Or there was also the option of paying 150 gold and you get three choices, you might get a cheap lumber jack that way if the option is still there
It still works. You see the three choices in the Europe screen.
It is kind of like paying for the necessary crosses until they migrate.
Therefore if you buy someone that way, your crosses are set to 0 again and you need the next higher number afterwards.
The choices don't change until you buy one or one emigrates cause of enough crosses (and then only that one is replaced). Therefore if no lumberjack is available there right now, we might wait for a long time....
Personally I'd buy the lumberjack before the Galleon.
Only if the caravel is in Europe :) .
If the caravel sails to Europe with some silver, we should be able to get both quite soon.
I prefer to buy a galleon before an expert lumberjack because we have a treasure to transport and only a galleon can do that for us. The treasure will finance a lumberjack while buying a lumberjack means a longer time before we get a galleon and thus the treasure money.
Also treasures are subject to the tax rate so waiting longer to transport treasures means they can devaluate.
BTW, you can now train multiple colonists in one indian village! This is new for me as this wasn't possible in the original game. This makes the fishermen city a lot more viable imo as we can let the indians do our training.
Well, I'm not sure how can I actually play since this is my first turns of the very first game. But I read the manual. Never mind, spent about half an hour searching for a disk since there is no deodorant yet out there. Found a disk of The Settlers RoaE which I lost 3 months ago. Not bad for the beginning. Started the game and it started. There is not much to do but end the turn.
Hurry cost is 1:6 to 1:7 (6-7 gold for 1 hammer, cannot understand why it is variable). I think we can afford a galleon. It will be much cheaper to part-build and part-rush by ourselves. The price of a brand new Royal one is 3000.
1(49) March with pioneer to Silvertown. Have no idea where the caravel sails. So, I put it into the town and load with silver giving command to sail to Europe since it has a full load. Scout and treasure continue to scout. Cannot figure out what to do next, apparently just end the turn.
2(50) There is nothing to do with pioneer. So, I decided to build a road between our two settlements. May be stupid, do not know.
3(51) We meet Sitting Bull. How to upload the images? To put them inside the post? Or only through attachment? Then how to make them appear in the body?
These caravels are so slow, unbelievable.
5(53) Dock in Silversomething built, will join pioneer after he finishes road. Have no idea what to build there since we were supposed to build a drydock there and then hurry the partially built Galleon. So, I would start on Dry dock atm but it requires 50 tools and we ain't got no tools there. So I put it to Church and when the tools come, it can be put to Dry dock. Or am I missing something?
6(54) Caravel arrived to Europe. I sell everything and we get 1131 gold. I load the criminal (future fisherman) and buy some tools. There is nothing more to do, so I sail back. Actually, before hitting the button, it seems we may benefit from at least one more caravel which costs 1000 but to bring treasure, we would anyhow need a galleon, so I'm not buying another caravel. May be somebody more experienced can make this kind of decisions.
We also meet Cunhambebe of Tupi (what is that???) and since this is a completely new face, I've made a screenshot.
Shabbatown finished Schoolhouse. I'm not sure what is this for? Training a fisherman? In any case, set the city to train Galleon (43 turns on its own).
7 (55) Monte comes and gives us 18 cottonballs to wipe the sweat. Quite a surprise here. [lol]
I'm still undecided about what to do with pioneer. Join him to Sivertown? Build road further to Shabbatown? Build a farm somewhere either on tobacco or cotton? I decided to continue building a road. Our scout desecrates some ancient burial grounds and finds a pathetic map.
8 (56) Building a farm costs 14 turns. That is quite a ridiculous number. I set to build road first. The game is quite slow and exhausting ridiculous. Everything is like an a slow motion day dream, I'm just going to bed right now I guess. We ain't got no tools for the galleon (it needs 100, did not say anything about the tools when I started building it although intuitively I understand) and may be, Shabbatown can be set to build a wagon meanwhile which would greatly speed the transport of the said commodities over land route from Silverplace which is apparently becoming our major trading settlement since it is closer to Europe than another town. I'm not sure it all makes sense however.
Also, I've attached the image of northern lands scouted with the slow-slow a scout of ours.
Oh, and the save. Apparently, it is Casey's turns now.
killercane
15-10-2008, 05:41
Well, I'm not sure how can I actually play since this is my first turns of the very first game. But I read the manual. Never mind, spent about half an hour searching for a disk since there is no deodorant yet out there. Found a disk of The Settlers RoaE which I lost 3 months ago. Not bad for the beginning. Started the game and it started. There is not much to do but end the turn.
Hurry cost is 1:6 to 1:7 (6-7 gold for 1 hammer, cannot understand why it is variable). I think we can afford a galleon. It will be much cheaper to part-build and part-rush by ourselves. The price of a brand new Royal one is 3000.
1(49) March with pioneer to Silvertown. Have no idea where the caravel sails. So, I put it into the town and load with silver giving command to sail to Europe since it has a full load. Scout and treasure continue to scout. Cannot figure out what to do next, apparently just end the turn.
2(50) There is nothing to do with pioneer. So, I decided to build a road between our two settlements. May be stupid, do not know.
3(51) We meet Sitting Bull. How to upload the images? To put them inside the post? Or only through attachment? Then how to make them appear in the body?
These caravels are so slow, unbelievable.
5(53) Dock in Silversomething built, will join pioneer after he finishes road. Have no idea what to build there since we were supposed to build a drydock there and then hurry the partially built Galleon. So, I would start on Dry dock atm but it requires 50 tools and we ain't got no tools there. So I put it to Church and when the tools come, it can be put to Dry dock. Or am I missing something?
6(54) Caravel arrived to Europe. I sell everything and we get 1131 gold. I load the criminal (future fisherman) and buy some tools. There is nothing more to do, so I sail back. Actually, before hitting the button, it seems we may benefit from at least one more caravel which costs 1000 but to bring treasure, we would anyhow need a galleon, so I'm not buying another caravel. May be somebody more experienced can make this kind of decisions.
We also meet Cunhambebe of Tupi (what is that???) and since this is a completely new face, I've made a screenshot.
Shabbatown finished Schoolhouse. I'm not sure what is this for? Training a fisherman? In any case, set the city to train Galleon (43 turns on its own).
7 (55) Monte comes and gives us 18 cottonballs to wipe the sweat. Quite a surprise here. [lol]
I'm still undecided about what to do with pioneer. Join him to Sivertown? Build road further to Shabbatown? Build a farm somewhere either on tobacco or cotton? I decided to continue building a road. Our scout desecrates some ancient burial grounds and finds a pathetic map.
8 (56) Building a farm costs 14 turns. That is quite a ridiculous number. I set to build road first. The game is quite slow and exhausting ridiculous. Everything is like an a slow motion day dream, I'm just going to bed right now I guess. We ain't got no tools for the galleon (it needs 100, did not say anything about the tools when I started building it although intuitively I understand) and may be, Shabbatown can be set to build a wagon meanwhile which would greatly speed the transport of the said commodities over land route from Silverplace which is apparently becoming our major trading settlement since it is closer to Europe than another town. I'm not sure it all makes sense however.
Also, I've attached the image of northern lands scouted with the slow-slow a scout of ours.
Oh, and the save. Apparently, it is Casey's turns now.
Heck Ive started 2 games so far and you did better than me. Im still waiting for the excitement of this game to hit. I probably need some orders from the vets.
-I would concentrate on finishing the galleon. If we finish the wagon, we can use it to store lumber. Anyway, we need a lumber jack asap. Or buy lumber form the colonization screen. I wouldn't be sure this is cheaper. We now neither have a lumberjack, nor a galleon. In the meanwhile, we miss the whole pint, which is trade. The good thing is that the caravel is still in Europe :) .
KC, drop the criminal back to the European dock, buy a LJ and ship the 100 tools and the lumberjack to Shabbaville. This way we can build the galleon ourselves, fairly smoothly, I think.
-Do talk to chiefs. We must be their first, to get something. So far two villages were skipped.
socralynnek
15-10-2008, 08:50
Our pioneer is not an expert. If in Civ we were allowed to give tanks worker tasks, it would probably take as long...;-)
Roading the terrain is not a bad idea, this game is about micromanaging colonies, so we might want to move some experts around between the colonies.
Shabbaman
15-10-2008, 09:47
3(51) We meet Sitting Bull. How to upload the images? To put them inside the post? Or only through attachment? Then how to make them appear in the body?
Upload them as attachment, then img tags in your post. The attachments are shown as thumbnails automatically, I think that's good enough for this purpose.
These caravels are so slow, unbelievable.
You complain too much ;)
5(53) Dock in Silversomething built, will join pioneer after he finishes road. Have no idea what to build there since we were supposed to build a drydock there and then hurry the partially built Galleon. So, I would start on Dry dock atm but it requires 50 tools and we ain't got no tools there. So I put it to Church and when the tools come, it can be put to Dry dock. Or am I missing something?
That's ok. You have to build a dock before a drydock. You only need the tools to finish building something. But a church is fine as well I think, that'd speed up immigration. Churches give 1 cross even unmanned, right?
Actually, before hitting the button, it seems we may benefit from at least one more caravel which costs 1000 but to bring treasure, we would anyhow need a galleon, so I'm not buying another caravel.
You're right, we need a galleon, not a caravel.
We also meet Cunhambebe of Tupi (what is that???) and since this is a completely new face, I've made a screenshot.
Don't forget to enter a village and talk to the chief. That way you can figure out what expert they train. Tupi's are indians, btw ;)
Shabbatown finished Schoolhouse. I'm not sure what is this for? Training a fisherman?
Only train expensive or vital units, not something the indians can teach. Teaching takes more time with each graduate, so by the time we need to train statesmen it'd take too much time to train them.
I'm still undecided about what to do with pioneer. Join him to Sivertown?
If you join a pioneer, the city gets the tools. So that way you can finish the drydock there, if you'd want to. Or just improve the land, build a road, whatever. Expert pioneers will build a lot quicker.
KC, drop the criminal back to the European dock, buy a LJ and ship the 100 tools and the lumberjack to Shabbaville. This way we can build the galleon ourselves, fairly smoothly, I think.
That makes sense.
Our pioneer is not an expert. If in Civ we were allowed to give tanks worker tasks, it would probably take as long...;-)
I bet a spearman would build roads faster than a worker.
To make things clear: Shabbaville will finish a wagon and then continue on the galleon. Silversebastiano will NOT build a drydock (and thus no ships) anytime soon. Churches are very helpful, since manpower is king in this game.
If the caravel brings in a lumberjack in Shabbaville, we should be able to rush the galleon soon. The galleon can then pick up the treasure and sail to Europe. From there, we should concentrate on bringing colonists to the fishermen-town and on trade! We should buy tools and trade goods and sell them to various Indians. Since we are rather isolated from the main land, we can also safely sell horsies or even guns.
Hmm, actually, we don't need a lumberjack in Shabbatown. You were confused since we don't chop 1 lumber, we just get a net increase of 1 lumber per turn there since more is chopped than used by a carpenter there. So, if we get an expert lumberjack, we would be generating excess lumber. We can ship it somewhere sometimes later, but not really right now right away.
With tools, we can rush galleon, no big deal here. Also, we need another city soon.
Upload them as attachment, then img tags in your post. The attachments are shown as thumbnails automatically, I think that's good enough for this purpose.
TO do that, one needs a url for the picture. Ain't got no url on attachments. But if it is good enough, then so be it.
... -Do talk to chiefs. We must be their first, to get something. So far two villages were skipped.
You realize, this is about 30-35 turns just to bring anyone there and then same 35 turns to bring back unless there are better ships and even then, it will take too long to actually make any sense. By this time, in 100 turns, the game can be over.
... KC, drop the criminal back to the European dock, buy a LJ and ship the 100 tools and the lumberjack to Shabbaville. ...
I would not do that as I wrote in an earlier post, seems that you got yourself confused over the lumber. Criminal is free and is as good as anything else for the current situation.
I think we would need to go with Darkness's plan of building a fish city and farming for pioneers. The land is not very abundant and has to be grabbed, otherwise we will play the whole game with just 2 cities.
Also, Monte can be whipped out of existence, he has only two cities with a handful of warriors (no more than 10 total).
Hmm, actually, we don't need a lumberjack in Shabbatown. You were confused since we don't chop 1 lumber, we just get a net increase of 1 lumber per turn there since more is chopped than used by a carpenter there. So, if we get an expert lumberjack, we would be generating excess lumber. We can ship it somewhere sometimes later, but not really right now right away.
With tools, we can rush galleon, no big deal here. Also, we need another city soon.
You seem to forget that if you want to rush, you either need to have the lumber or you have to buy it. We most certainly need lumber, either way!!
You realize, this is about 30-35 turns just to bring anyone there and then same 35 turns to bring back unless there are better ships and even then, it will take too long to actually make any sense. By this time, in 100 turns, the game can be over.
What does this have to do with talking to chiefs????????
I would not do that as I wrote in an earlier post, seems that you got yourself confused over the lumber. Criminal is free and is as good as anything else for the current situation.
No, I am not confused.
We need to buy the lumber (more expensive than purchasing in Europe) AND we need to pay for converting lumber into production (afaik always 6 gold per converted lumber), and for tools (also more expensive) if we lack them. A lumberjack adds 7 more lumber. Lumber costs 4 in Europe and more in the colonies. We thus save 28 to ?36? gold each turns. I guess that pays off at some time.
I think we would need to go with Darkness's plan of building a fish city and farming for pioneers. The land is not very abundant and has to be grabbed, otherwise we will play the whole game with just 2 cities.
Yeah that too. But we really need a galleon to do whatever we want.
Also, Monte can be whipped out of existence, he has only two cities with a handful of warriors (no more than 10 total).
Pushing him out with culture might be easier. Not sure though.
Hmm, actually, we don't need a lumberjack in Shabbatown. You were confused since we don't chop 1 lumber, we just get a net increase of 1 lumber per turn there since more is chopped than used by a carpenter there. So, if we get an expert lumberjack, we would be generating excess lumber. We can ship it somewhere sometimes later, but not really right now right away.
With tools, we can rush galleon, no big deal here. Also, we need another city soon.
But when we get an expert lumberjack we can make a 2nd carpenter out of the original lumberjack and build stuff quicker
I think we would need to go with Darkness's plan of building a fish city and farming for pioneers. The land is not very abundant and has to be grabbed, otherwise we will play the whole game with just 2 cities.
Also, Monte can be whipped out of existence, he has only two cities with a handful of warriors (no more than 10 total).
I thought Darkness was opposed to my fishermencity suggestion or has there been another plan I missed?
Also trading with the indians is quite lucrative in the beginning so we should definitely pick up the money from Monte before we kill him.
PLaying a few games I found that the all the villages from one tribe share the same funds like a normal Civ4 civ. So you can easily clean out a tribe's coffers by trading the first requested trade goods (usually trade goods/horses/tools) to a few villages and so prevent trading the guns/cigars/rum they usually ask after that.
Darkness
15-10-2008, 22:48
I thought Darkness was opposed to my fishermencity suggestion or has there been another plan I missed?
I am indeed opposed to that plan...
Also trading with the indians is quite lucrative in the beginning so we should definitely pick up the money from Monte before we kill him.
I totally agree. Bleed 'em dry financially before killing him.
But when we get an expert lumberjack we can make a 2nd carpenter out of the original lumberjack and build stuff quicker
Ok, this makes sense.
... We need to buy the lumber (more expensive than purchasing in Europe) AND we need to pay for converting lumber into production (afaik always 6 gold per converted lumber), and for tools (also more expensive) if we lack them. A lumberjack adds 7 more lumber. Lumber costs 4 in Europe and more in the colonies. We thus save 28 to ?36? gold each turns. I guess that pays off at some time. ...
Ok, got that. I had no idea about total amount of lumber we need. Is it 300 for a 300 hammer unit?
... So you can easily clean out a tribe's coffers by trading the first requested trade goods (usually trade goods/horses/tools) to a few villages and so prevent trading the guns/cigars/rum they usually ask after that.
Is wagon needed for that?
Darkness
16-10-2008, 11:11
Is wagon needed for that?
If the village is on the coast you can also trade by ship...
Ok, got that. I had no idea about total amount of lumber we need. Is it 300 for a 300 hammer unit?
Yup!
I am indeed opposed to that plan...
This plan (building a fishermantown on the island west of us) has more to it.
We haven't yet explored the island. We might very wel decide to fully colonize this island too! This way we have our core island with 4 colonies and the other one with 3 colonies (for instance). If we think the other island is only good for the possible fishermen colony, it will still be a top colonist growth spot.
Darkness, we have several options if we build this colony only on the other island.
-We can give up a colony to another European rival anytime. (I tested this)
-We can simply let it be taken by the king and fully ignore it, until the end of the WoI.
-We can heavily defend it with canons and minutemen (not my choice, I guess)
-We can deliberately make it a switching colony. Making he AI continuously divide his forces is an extra bonus on top of its standard stupidity.
ANYWAY: we need a galleon and we need to use the galleon to ship treasuries and goodies to Europe. We should pick up colonists and trade goods there. I would suggest to use the galleon for shipment between our island and Europe. And for trade with Monte's settlement on our island. Not for trade with settlement further away.
I would use the caravel to ship criminals, servants and free colonists to the (so far only known) Indian fishermen settlement northwest of our island. And of course from the settlement to our colonies. Giving priority to a dozen fishermen wouldn't harm us!
Darkness
16-10-2008, 13:32
I understand the advantages that we can gain from this city, but I'm not so sure about your options...
Darkness, we have several options if we build this colony only on the other island.
-We can give up a colony to another European rival anytime. (I tested this)
This is, IMHO, a major exploit, and I would prefer not to use this.
-We can simply let it be taken by the king and fully ignore it, until the end of the WoI.
That will mean that we need to put a massive investment in our navy, otherwise we'll never get our units across to the other island, due to the strength of the man-o-wars in the REF.
-We can heavily defend it with canons and minutemen (not my choice, I guess)
This is a viable, yet probably extremely expensive option.
-We can deliberately make it a switching colony. Making he AI continuously divide his forces is an extra bonus on top of its standard stupidity.
What do you mean by "switching colony"?
http://www.straland.com/images/smilies/read.gif
That will mean that we need to put a massive investment in our navy, otherwise we'll never get our units across to the other island, due to the strength of the man-o-wars in the REF.
A more than decent investment in our navy, is the best way to independence anyway. Killing all MoWs might sound like a costly job, but it really pays off.
What do you mean by "switching colony"?
Giving it up and retaking it various times.
If the island is any good, apart from the northern fishy spot, I prefer ot fully colonize it anyway.
http://www.straland.com/images/smilies/read.gif
Yeah!
KC, will you pick up the save?
killercane
17-10-2008, 03:53
Yeah bout to play. I was just waiting for you all to quit talking :).
killercane
17-10-2008, 22:22
Ok I looked about last night. Question 1: What about this Jesuit Missionary on the docks? Wouldnt he be valuable for something like converting natives?
Q2: How do I rushbuy something? Like a galleon? How do I even build a galleon?
... Q2: How do I rushbuy something? Like a galleon? How do I even build a galleon?
[lol] This game is amazing indeed. I've actually read the manual before playing and there is not a single word there on what you need to build something. And the civilopedia entries do not list all "ingredients" and do not provide even slightest clues on how to get them. Moreover, the popups of the build are screwed as well and do not list the ingredients or do not show up at all sometimes.
It seems the common sense prevails however, and to actually build a galleon, one needs lumber, tools, and hammers to put the lumber/tools to use. Many thanks to Stapel for deciphering that. Yet, the domination of the common sense is only partial since galleon would also need sails (cloth?), crew (sailors??), food to be able to feed the crew (??), and probably also cannons and guns to make it a fighting vessel (???).
The budget is even worse mystery to me.
To the point, there is a rush button on the build section of the screen. It tells you how much gold it would cost to rush. To build galleon, one needs a drydock.
Darkness
18-10-2008, 10:27
Ok I looked about last night. Question 1: What about this Jesuit Missionary on the docks? Wouldnt he be valuable for something like converting natives?
Absolutely. And he will also keep the natives happier and they won't grow alarmed by your presence as fast as they would without the missionary founding a mission in an Indian village... Perhaps we should use the missionary on the fisherman teaching village (even though that's not the closest village) ?
socralynnek
18-10-2008, 12:40
Good idea. I think it is strange, that Indians can be tought in their homecity. But we should use that, that means once a Native pops up in that city, he can learn being a fisherman right there.
killercane
18-10-2008, 16:38
Ok! Played until turn 60, a nice even number and I dont want to mess anything up.
I brought the Missionary and tools back to Silver town. The missionary is exhausted of movement by the capital. Wagon train is almost built there and then the galleon? I thought about galleon first and let wagon be built in silver town but it takes forever to do something there. Could we just make crosses or something in silver town until it is up to speed? What to do with the tools there?
What to do with the treasure? Get down to the coast and let it be picked up by the new galleon?
I also refused the king's demand for 3200 gold :).
I think that is about it. Do we sail the caravel back to Europe to pick up more stuff?
That's only four turns. You can play four more. Part of the fun of a succession game is that the one playing has to make personal choices to which the others can scold and rant. :D
(So you can play on and save at the beginning of turn 65.)
Shabbaman
18-10-2008, 18:18
I think it is strange, that Indians can be tought in their homecity.
OTOH it's weird that someone from a village that teaches expert fishermen isn't an expert fisherman himself...
killercane
19-10-2008, 04:50
That's only four turns. You can play four more. Part of the fun of a succession game is that the one playing has to make personal choices to which the others can scold and rant. :D
(So you can play on and save at the beginning of turn 65.)
Nah have at it. I am not too enthralled with it so far.
KC,
-The tools should have been be shipped to Shabbaville. There tobacco could be picked up and then to Silverbastiano to pick up the silver. Now the caravel has left SB, without picking up anything. Not too bad though. The wagon is there in 2 turns and can thus bring the tobacco to SB and pick up the tools overthere. Add the ore I guess, to store them in Shabbaville.
-The galleon is already in the building queue (in Shabbaville) and even has some hammers completed. You can see so, when holding the pointer of the mouse right on top of a galleon in the building screen in the right top of the colony screen. There it says 16/300 hammers and 0/100 tools. Not bringing the lumberjack will delay its construction somewhat, since it can be hurried later.
Next player should watch out for our wasting comodoties. We really need the galleon soon!
socralynnek
20-10-2008, 12:21
AFAICS, everyone played one turnset, so I think shabba is up if available.
Shabbaman
20-10-2008, 13:00
Killercane isn't going to finish his turnset?
Killercane isn't going to finish his turnset?
Apparently not.
I can finish his 4 turns tonight, but I'm also fine with Shabba taking the next 8 or 12.
Shabbaman
20-10-2008, 15:19
I think I can play CDZCOL2 1 tonight before I play my weekly TF2 PCW ;) So you can expect the save around half past seven tonight.
I think I can play CDZCOL2 1 tonight before I play my weekly TF2 PCW ;) So you can expect the save around half past seven tonight.
So Matrix, can play around 20:00 :) [:)] :) .
Shabbaman
20-10-2008, 18:44
Turn 60: changed tobaccoplanter to tobaccoshop in Shabbaville: enough tobacco to make a load of cigars. Switched build order in Silverbastiano: not much use for two wagons at this point anyway.
Turn 61: load silver. Started building tobaccoshop, wagon is shipping the ore from Silverstalinio.
Turn 62: added missionary as a second tobacconist.
Turn 63: changed missionary to blacksmith.
Turn 65: purchased a blacksmith for 1000g; tried trading some cigars with the natives, but they don't offer enough.
Turn 66: we can get Bartolome de las Casas. I say no. Then I'm offered Peter Minuit. Of course I agree, and begin swearing because I just wasted 250g. Started building a lodge on our lumber.
Turn 67: aaaiiii, pinky ring. Tax to 8%.
Turn 70: added the petty criminal and blacksmith to Shabbaville. We're running on a food deficit, I suggest we ship the criminal to the expert fisherman-village.
killercane
20-10-2008, 19:37
So what is the difference between Minuit and de las Casas?
So wagon trains can ship to and from not only from their home city? Can they be loaded onto ships?
So what is the difference between Minuit and de las Casas?
So wagon trains can ship to and from not only from their home city? Can they be loaded onto ships?
dl Casas is some kind of useless crap.
Minuit makes new colonists cheaper. Really worth it.
WE NEED A GALLEON!
What is it with you deliberately delaying our most valuable sources (trade and new colonists).
And our caravel is not sent back to Europe with silver and tobacco? Not even used top bring someone to the fish village? Just 10 turns of nothing? In stead, our colony is running short on food, just to transform tobacco to cigars......
I'll do the math:
Tobacco can be sold for 500 a load, cigars for 1100. That seems a a lot better. However, the tobacconists can also be used to grow more tobacco. Not 3 cigars but 4 tobacco.
After 33 turns, we have (nearly) 100 cigars, thus 1100 gold. Instead, we could have had 132 more tobacco (33*4), worth 660. Add the 500 worth of the original tobacco, and you'll see we are actually deliberately wasting money at the cost of a food defecit.....
Shabbaman
20-10-2008, 21:29
That caravel is just back from Europe. It is running a deficit because I just added two colonists.
I hadn't finished ranting :) . I'll give it another go tomorrow. All in a constructive way of course.
But we really need a galleon, not a cigar shop.
socralynnek
21-10-2008, 00:05
Question: Why don't we use the missionary for a mission atm? Those nice little Indians would be nice...
Some things:
-At the moment, ore can be sold for 2 and tools can be bought for 2. So there is no use at all to convert ore into tools, let alone buy a blacksmith and abuse a missionary to do this at a food defecit.
-Coverting raw materials into luxuary stuff is hardly ever useful in the first half of the game.
-We should focus on food, crosses, colonists and trade.
-A load of tools was bought and is now doing nothing. Either use it for a galleon or trade it to Monty. Since a galleon is way cheaper in Europe, it should be bought there immediately!
-We still don't know what the village of Tlateloco teaches. Perhaps it's fishery.....
-The missionary should either do what he is good at or he should be stripped and taught fishery. I suggest we load the missionary (along with the criminal) into the caravel, check out Tlateloco, possibly leave the criminal (if he an lear fishery) and then ship the missionary to scout the island to the west of us. After scouting he can build a missionary.
-In short:
-Buy a galleon in europe, stuff it with colonists, tools and trade goods and sail to America.
-Get the criminal and missionary to Tlateloco.
I can perfectly understand that each player does things differently. However, explaining why you do things and why some advizes are ignored, would be nice :) .
Darkness
21-10-2008, 09:12
Since a galleon is way cheaper in Europe, it should be bought there immediately!
IMHO it should always be bought in Europe in the early game. The time it takes to build one simply makes it extremely non-cost-effective (is that a word?). It may seem like it costs more if you buy it in Europe, but you get it much, much faster, which is a huge gain. Also since we now have Minuit it'll only cost 2250, so that's actually really cheap.
socralynnek
21-10-2008, 09:12
Can you explain why you think a Galleon is cheaper in Europe? I don't now rushing costs, so therefore I don't know.
In Col I it was more useful to directly start converting goods as prices of the raw material would be dropping quite fast. I think it is not that fast in Col2 so you might be right. OTOH Indians now have more oney to buy our stuff. And they surely don't wanna pay much for tobacco... And, another OTOH, At some point we need to pay pretty high taxes, so maybe producing now gives us more in return then now selling tobacco and later selling cigars. But then again, there are Indians to sell to.
And I hink you are right, that producing tools is not worth it at it is pretty cheap in EUrope. If it costs 4 or more, then we can think about producing.
Edit: Forgot, that we have Minuit.
Shabbaman
21-10-2008, 09:41
Buying a galleon in Europe would be moronic if we'd want to keep the REF small. If you want to rush the galleon, buy timber.
As it was:
-We had started building a galleon in Shabbaville (I think it was aKots). We had bought tools in Europe and we were planning to buy a lumberjack to provide the lumber. This way, rushing the ship in Shabbaville could have been done about 10-15 turns ago.
-As it is: We are building other stuff in Shabbaville, the tools are still in Silverbastiano and we have Minuit. We should most defenitely buy the galleon in Europe right now.
@socralynnek,
If you open up the save, you can simply see (by moving over the $) the rush costs.
Once more my opinion:
-Buy a galleon in europe, stuff it with colonists, tools and trade goods and sail to America.
-Get the criminal and missionary to Tlateloco. If the criminal can learn fishery, do so. If not, simply automove him to the fish-village.
-Sell the tools in Silverbastiano to Monty (maybe do so, before filling up the galleon?)
-Pick up the treasure with our galleon, when it has arrived in America.
-Use the missionary to establish a mission or ship him to the other island.
Buying a galleon in Europe would be moronic if we'd want to keep the REF small. If you want to rush the galleon, buy timber.
Hmm,
I didnt think of that.
Do galleon count as warships / military?
EDIT: I checked things out. Galleons do not count as warships.
Whatever we do, we really need a galleon a dozen turns ago!
Shabbaman
21-10-2008, 10:29
Well, if it's not a warship, then we should buy it as it'd take 40 turns to build it and there are other builings we could build!
Darkness
21-10-2008, 11:26
Never mind. Stapel already commented on the gallon vs REF issue.
Darkness
21-10-2008, 11:29
Can you explain why you think a Galleon is cheaper in Europe? I don't now rushing costs, so therefore I don't know.
Time.
It takes very long to build one. If we buy one we can start shipping treasure and use that money to buy colonists. We would get increased production about 40 turns sooner as well as extra transport capacity to sell stuff to the Indians and send people to the Indians to learn and also increase their productivity (and again, about 40 turns faster)...
Time.
It takes very long to build one. If we buy one we can start shipping treasure and use that money to buy colonists. We would get increased production about 40 turns sooner as well as extra transport capacity to sell stuff to the Indians and send people to the Indians to learn and also increase their productivity (and again, about 40 turns faster)...
Apart from time, which is a very good arguement, it's simply cheaper.
Well, if it's not a warship, then we should buy it as it'd take 40 turns to build it and there are other buildings we could build!
Yup!
BTW Shabba,
I apologise for the tone, earlier.
Nevertheless, I would like to ask all to specify why some actions are done and why some actions are not done.
Turn 71
- Loaded missionary and criminal in caravel, heading to Tlatelalco.
- Bought galleon & hurried expert lumberjack in Europe, heading to the New World.
- Loaded tools of Silverstapiano. in wagon train.
Turn 72
- Tlatelalco trains fishermen!! The criminal starts the training.
- The missionary won't do a mission in Tlatelalco. Perhaps because they're busy with the training? So I sent it all the way to Tiwanaku.
- Sold 100 tools for 437g. Bought 2 silver and 46? cotton cheaply.
Turn 74
- Set up trade route for wagon train: cigars to Silverstapiano, ore back to Shabbaville. When the caravel is back from Europe, it can do the trade route from Silverstapiano (silver & cigars) to Europe I set up.
Turn 75
- Tabacconist's shop done. Next production: lumber mill (since there's an expert lumberjack coming).
- Encountered a Spanish treasure of 996g with the scout. I could destroy it, but that'll probably give us more trouble than the Spanish, so I left it.
Turn 77
- Loaded caravel with silver & cotton, heading to Europe.
Turn 79
- Sold the stuff. Hurried (not bought) firebrand preacher & hardy pioneer, loaded them and headed back.
- The King asks for 400g, which I refused.
Turn 80
- Mission impossible in Tiwanaku as well. :( I guess it's only possible when you have a settlement on the island.
Other stuff of which I forgot to write down and hence don't know which turn it was:
- The galleon dropped off the lumberjack in Shabbaville and is chopping now. Then it picked up the treasure and will arrive in Europe next turn.
- We'll soon have too much lumber, so we could send a colonist to school to become a carpenter.
- In two or three turns the expert fisherman in Tlatelalco will be done.
- What to do with all the money? Next turn we'll have about 2000g...
digger760
21-10-2008, 15:13
Still producing cigars then? Stapel seemed to have a pretty good arguement for selling the tobbaco back to Europe...
Well, my guess is that things look quite a bit better now.
A few things:
-I think it's better to use the galleon solely from Silverbastiano to Europe and back. This is also to avoid future privateer attacks.
-The caravel can be used to transport fishermen and other colonists in America. We might even decide to build/buy another.
-The misionary can be sent to the other island.
-The gold should be used to buy colonists and various trade goods. We should be able to make a good fortune on horses!
Still producing cigars then? Stapel seemed to have a pretty good arguement for selling the tobbaco back to Europe...
Now that we have a cigar shop, this is a fine option I think. Wouldn't have been my choice, but it's most certainly a profitable trade, now that all is set up.
Stapel's wish is not my command. ;) I figured cigars are still twice as profitable as tabacco and it only costs one colonist to make them.
Stapel's wish is not my command. ;)
:(
I figured cigars are still twice as profitable as tabacco and it only costs one colonist to make them.
Unfortunately, this is simply not true at all. QED in a previous post.
socralynnek
22-10-2008, 00:02
I will be able to play not before 19 o'clock (in 19 hours)
So, if someone wants to jump in now, then go ahead.
I will be able to play not before 19 o'clock (in 19 hours)
So, if someone wants to jump in now, then go ahead.
I think I'm next in line, but I won't be able to play earlier then you. However, if you play between 1900 and 2100, I can play right after you.
socralynnek
22-10-2008, 10:11
OK, I'll try to do so.
socralynnek
22-10-2008, 20:11
Started playing.
1572 AD (81) - Nothing special
1573 AD - Sell treasure. Buy horses and tools.
What else do you think I should buy in Europe?
Gunsmith - 360 gold (in docks)
Tobacconist - 900 gold
Statesman - 1500 gold
Cannon - 375 gold
Some more goods?
BTW, Should we found our next colony on the other small island soon?
I'll continue playing in about half an hour.
Started playing.
1572 AD (81) - Nothing special
1573 AD - Sell treasure. Buy horses and tools.
What else do you think I should buy in Europe?
Gunsmith - 360 gold (in docks)
Tobacconist - 900 gold
Statesman - 1500 gold
Cannon - 375 gold
Some more goods?
BTW, Should we found our next colony on the other small island soon?
I'll continue playing in about half an hour.
I would focus on fishermen first. If you ship the missionary on the other island, he can settle there later on.
And yes, buying tools, goodies and horsies is way more importnat than a 1500gold statesmen, I think.
Matrix' remark about the missionary puzzles me. Matrix are ou sure he is still blessed as a missionary? If you have a Jesuit missionary which is put on a normal worker task in a village he'll lose his 'blessing' but he'll still be black clad and look a bit like a 'blessed' missionary. Once you wanna sent the missionary out to spread the faith you should bless him/asign missionary task again just like you would any normal colonist on missionary duty.
socralynnek
22-10-2008, 21:32
Continued:
All close indian villages would like to buy guns. That is something I normally don't wanna sell to them.
So I am buying another two loads of tools.
1574 AD - Ah, I don't like trade routes...the wagon passed by and so I wasn't able to pick up up lumber this turn and therefore 5 were lost.
Set a colonist to learning (probably Carpenter or lumberjack for other colony)
1576 AD - The French have founded a Colony directly next to our Fisherman village. I hope the "culture" doesn't kill that city.
1578 AD - Fisherman arrives in Shabbaville. Set a free colonist onboard the caravel to learn Fisherman as well.
Sell 100 tools to the Aztecs for 283g...83g plus at least...
Buy 3 Silver from them for 17g.
1579 AD - We got a native in Teoh.
No good price for Tools in Tlatelco. Colonist starts learning Fisherman there.
Galleon should head back to Europe. It is loaded with Silver and cigars and there will be a colonist to pick up in 2 turns.
See the French in the screenshot...
BTW, the missionary is just fine but can't found a mission there.
Matrix' remark about the missionary puzzles me. Matrix are ou sure he is still blessed as a missionary? If you have a Jesuit missionary which is put on a normal worker task in a village he'll lose his 'blessing' but he'll still be black clad and look a bit like a 'blessed' missionary. Once you wanna sent the missionary out to spread the faith you should bless him/asign missionary task again just like you would any normal colonist on missionary duty.
http://www.straland.com/images/smilies/wallbash.gif
ProPain is right. The unit does say "Colonist (Jesuit Missionary)", so its profession is indeed not missionary, but mere colonist.
http://www.straland.com/images/smilies/wallbash.gif
ProPain is right. The unit does say "Colonist (Jesuit Missionary)", so its profession is indeed not missionary, but mere colonist.
I'm not too sure you are mistaken. Not sure at all though. We'll see.
Set a colonist to learning (probably Carpenter or lumberjack for other colony)
This is what I like about SG! I would defenitely have sent him to be a fisherman, but training him to be a carpeneter is worth it, I think.
Shabbaman
22-10-2008, 22:48
Gunsmith - 360 gold (in docks)
Be careful with buying from the docks, because you might waste crosses.
Turn 0 (88); Frankly, just nothing :) .
IT: Monty declares war on Samuel. It won't take long before either one of them asks support.....
Turn 1 (89); Pick up missionary to sail him to other island. Native goes fishing (until being picked up to really learn it). Out Galleon goes for Europe (with silver and cigars and... tools...?)
Turn 2 (90; Missionary dropped ashore and Tenochtitlan spotted.
Lumber Mill is there in Shabbaville; Cayenne (French) fucked over by Monty.
Turn 3 (91); Start building warehouse in SV. Sell cigars and silver. We are rich!!! I buy three fishermen (600 each) and 100 horses. Along witht tools and the free criminal, they are shipped to America.
IT: Montreal to Monty.
Turn 4 (92); Monty gives us some money in Tenochtitlan. Pioneer goes irrigating tobacco.
Turn 5 (93);Monty wants us to join his war against the Frecnh.... Now what????
socralynnek
22-10-2008, 23:18
Out Galleon goes for Europe (with silver and cigars and... tools...?)
I had nowhere to unload the tools...
I think we are not in a position to help someone in a war. Only if we'd buy some cannons...
Turn 5 (93);Monty wants us to join his war against the Frecnh.... Now what????
We won't help him. I load the wagon with tools, to donate to Monty. A master carpenter is trained. The silver miner is removed from Shabbaville is moves north to settle. Teh Indian colonist is dropped off in the fisherman village. The galleon has arrived from Europe.
Turn 6 (94); Donating 50 tools don't really help to please Monty. I dislike the situation. We have no defense at all! I think we lack cargo power to trade with Indians and to ship colonists around. I buy merchantman and load it with goodies. My intention is to gift trade goods to Monty and to sell the rest up north.
IT: Monty sends 28 cotton.
Turn 7 (95); Galleon sent back to Europe with silver and cigars. A fisherman is fishing in Silverbastiano now.
Turn 8 (96); Warehouse extension done in Shabbaville. Work started on an armory. we need canons. Fishtown is settled. Move some stuff around
IT: Tax to 12%.
Turn 9 (97); Criminal dropped of in Tlateloco.
Turn 10 (98); Trade goods to Monty. He is neutral now.
Turn 11 (99); Crabsilver founded up north (costs 1000 gold though). 100 horses sold to Inca for 800.
Next player:
-The merchantmen is in trade position for the next turn
-There's a ship in Europe right now. You might want to fill her up now. But maybe it's better to sell the merchantman load first.
-Tenochtitlan trains tobacco planters. You might consider bringing a colonist there. Possibly the one that is making cigars in shabbaville now?
Da save:
Shabbaman
23-10-2008, 09:43
Only if we'd buy some cannons...
Buying cannons does trigger building the REF. A cannon costs 750g (or something like that) and is equivalent to 750 liberty bells. And that's a lot!
We could sell guns to Monty, that'd screw the French and make us rich in the process. Or we could buy guns and equip the criminal(s)/other useless units with them. Military units do not count towards REF, strangely enough.
On the other hand, I'm not opposed to declaring war on the french colonies. It's the AI; what's the worst they could do? But we'd have nothing to gain.
Buying cannons does trigger building the REF. A cannon costs 750g (or something like that) and is equivalent to 750 liberty bells. And that's a lot!
We won't buy canons, we will build canons. That's why I started building the armory. AFAIK, that does NOT count as bells or trigger REF increasing. I am quite sure building up an army of soldiers and dragoons does not trigger REF increasing. Only buying soldiers from Europe does.
We could sell guns to Monty, that'd screw the French and make us rich in the process. Or we could buy guns and equip the criminal(s)/other useless units with them. Military units do not count towards REF, strangely enough.
Eventually, Monty might be our enemy. I'm opposed to selling guns to him. Selling guns (or horses) to any other Indian leader is fine by me. But guns are, in my experience, a rare commodity. IMHO a waste to sell them. We need guns ourselves!
There are no useless units, I think. We lack about 50 units imho. Criminals can be taught in villages, in contrary to the original game.
On the other hand, I'm not opposed to declaring war on the french colonies. It's the AI; what's the worst they could do? But we'd have nothing to gain.
The reason I stopped playing yesterday, is to find out what you guys would think. Only Socralynnek replied, probably because I offered you a window of replying opportunity during sleeping time......
In hindsight, we should have gotten along with Monty. Declaring war now won't help that much.
Having said this, I would like to say that Indian aggression has been a major concern in a few games for me.
Darkness,
You're up!
Then ProPain.
socralynnek
23-10-2008, 10:53
I still have these old habits from Col I in my mind although I try to at least question them.
(That's something that concerns me. I was playing Col quite often but had nothing like CDZ at that point, so I surely have some bad habits, especially seeing that I didn't play often until declaration of war. I mostly liked the exploration phase in the beginning, so I don't even know if I had won the war vs the king more than twice or so in all those years...)
One of them is buying a cannon for each of my colonies in Europe to help against surprise attacks from Indians.
The first cannon in Europe would cost us 375g (we have Minuit), which is quite cheap. But then again, you are right, we don't want to trigger the REF too much...
OTOH if we had joined the war against the French, then we would have needed some units fast.
I also don't like giving Monty guns. He is one of the most aggressive so I guess he would use them against us at some point. OTOH that might mean he'd lose that Fisherman's village. But then we'd have to teach it ourselves (or buy it)
Shabbaman
23-10-2008, 11:39
We won't buy canons, we will build canons.
I replied Ynnek. Building cannons is good any way you look at it, because cannons don't count towards rebel sentiment. They're not that good on defense though. But you want to rush cannons? That seems costly.
Shabbaman
23-10-2008, 11:46
The first cannon in Europe would cost us 375g (we have Minuit), which is quite cheap. But then again, you are right, we don't want to trigger the REF too much...
That'd be 375 liberty bells... that's a lot. However, I'm not really sure if the REF growth is equivalent with the number of bells, it could be that we'd only reach the initial treshold. I believe the additional bells aren't carried over to the next treshold level. It wouldn't be dramatic, but it won't be good either. I'd suggest further research first, and perhaps it'd be better to buy all the required cannons at once (if the bells aren't carried over).
Darkness
23-10-2008, 12:32
Darkness,
You're up!
Then ProPain.
I know.
Maybe PP can play first? I can't play before friday night, so if PP plays first, then I will play after him... :)
Be careful with buying from the docks, because you might waste crosses.
Nope. The cost of 'hurrying' is 50 + 10 per cross left. When when it costs 360 gold, that means there are still 31 crosses necessary.
And cannons are good in settlement defense (+50%).
One of them is buying a cannon for each of my colonies in Europe to help against surprise attacks from Indians.
It appears we shared the same strategy a dozen years ago.
OTOH if we had joined the war against the French, then we would have needed some units fast.
I would have dared to join the Aztecs, without having any military at all. Especially because we are on an island. I'm still far more worried about an Aztec surprise attack.
I also don't like giving Monty guns. He is one of the most aggressive so I guess he would use them against us at some point. OTOH that might mean he'd lose that Fisherman's village. But then we'd have to teach it ourselves (or buy it)
Buying fishermen is rather cheap and there's another fishermen village.
I replied Ynnek. Building cannons is good any way you look at it, because cannons don't count towards rebel sentiment. They're not that good on defense though. But you want to rush cannons? That seems costly.
Yeah, I realised that after posting. Anyway, we garee!
For now, we shouldn't buy any military units.
Shabbaman
23-10-2008, 14:04
Nope. The cost of 'hurrying' is 50 + 10 per cross left. When when it costs 360 gold, that means there are still 31 crosses necessary.
And cannons are good in settlement defense (+50%).
Interesting. Makes a lot of sense; in fact, I'd say it makes sense to buy a colonist from the docks a turn before you have enough crosses, because that way you can always pick the class that's most useful. Hmm...
socralynnek
23-10-2008, 14:30
Yeah, picking costs only 50g extra. But the crosses made in that trn aren't lost IIRC. They changed it to Civ4 style of overflow when the cross bar is already full, right?
I suppose.
At first (during beta testing), hurrying would only cost 20g per cross necessary. But that way you could always pick one for just 20g per colonist, so they changed it to 50+10x. Still, 60g is not a lot, is it?
socralynnek
23-10-2008, 15:54
Yeah, maybe that should grow more expensive with each pick...
OTOH, they removed a Founding Father that would give the right to pick, which was in Col I.
I guess it is a good strategy to always pick in final turn once you have your initial sells...
I know.
Maybe PP can play first? I can't play before friday night, so if PP plays first, then I will play after him... :)
I guess chances are decreasing PP wil show up before tonight......
Darkness
24-10-2008, 12:07
I guess chances are decreasing PP wil show up before tonight......
I will play tonight. Probably around 2100 CET...
Darkness
24-10-2008, 21:45
Turn 100 (1) – Shabbaville completes Armory, building cannon next. Sell stuff at Cuzco. Buy some colonists in Europe and send the galleon back to the New World
Turn 101 (2) – Nothing…
Turn 102 (3) – Merchantman arrives at Shabbaville. Picks up the free colonist to take him to Tenochtitlan to learn Tobacco planting.
Turn 103 (4) – Nothing…
Turn 104 (5) – France asks us to declare war on the Aztecs. We say “Hell, no!” Tlatelolco completes teaching our fisherman. Our caravel picks him up to take him to Fishtown. Scout arrives at Ihanktowan. They could teach us fishing. Unfortunately another European has been here before, so no gifts…
Turn 105 (6) – The king wants 140 gold. We refuse. Fisherman arrives at Fishtown and starts fishing. The missionary leaves the village to go and found a mission in Tenochtitlan.
Turn 106 (7) – Hernan Cortes joins Simon Bolivar. Fishtown completes Docks and starts building a warehouse. The free colonist starts learning Tobacco planting at Tenochtitlan. Galleon arrives at Shabbaville. Add an Ore Miner and a Gunsmith to Shabbaville. Set the second Carpenter at Shabbaville to make cigars because we will run out of Lumber next turn. Galleon loaded with silver, cotton and cigars and it heads on to Crabsilver to deliver the other three colonists to that town.
Turn 107 (8) – Silverbastiano completes Church, starts Cathedral. Galleon arrives at Crabsilver, and adds Master Distiller to the town. I had no Idea what to do with the Distiller, but we can produce sugar at Crabsilver, so he could be useful there. Scout enters Isanti. They teach Expert Trappers! No gift.
Turn 108 (9) – Did nothing yet. Next player is up.
For the next player:
- The caravel waits near Tenochtitlan to pick up the Tobacco planter in 3-4 turns
- We should consider sending a free colonist to Isanti to learn Fur Trapping. We have a ‘beaver’ next to Silverbastiano, so we could produce a lot of furs with a single expert.
- The carpenter/lumberjack combo is on its’ way to Silverbastiano to speed up the build of the cathedral.
- The galleon is on its’ way back to the high seas and Europe with about 1700 gold worth of goods. I would recommend buying a preacher for the church in Silverbastiano.
- We could send the merchantman back to Europe empty, so it can buy the free colonist available there. The merchantman is the fastest ship we’ve got, so we could sent it north to get a Fur Trapper trained. It seems wasteful to leave that beaversource uptapped.
Ah, things look quite good, me thinks.
Hmm, a major concern, imho, is Monty now being -2 towards us. Any non-AI-guided Aztec would screw us over in 2 turns....
So, who's next, me or PP? If me, I can probably try to play today. It seems pretty clear what to do.
Regarding Monty, don't we have to buy a few guns and horses and make a few dragoons just in case something happens like a war with Aztec?
So, who's next, me or PP? If me, I can probably try to play today. It seems pretty clear what to do.
Regarding Monty, don't we have to buy a few guns and horses and make a few dragoons just in case something happens like a war with Aztec?
Hmm, PP didn't give any notice recently, so go ahead.
About the guns: Sounds like a good idea to me.
However, be aware that 2 or 3 units won't do when atacked by 6 braves.
Darkness
24-10-2008, 23:31
Hmm, a major concern, imho, is Monty now being -2 towards us. Any non-AI-guided Aztec would screw us over in 2 turns....
Which is why I started building a cannon in Shabbaville. We'll need some soldiers too in the near future. Cannons suck on defense and Monty is probably the most psycho native american, so it's a safe bet that he will attack us sooner or later. But the cannon should prove useful for burning the village.
Which is why I started building a cannon in Shabbaville. We'll need some soldiers too in the near future. Cannons suck on defense and Monty is probably the most psycho native american, so it's a safe bet that he will attack us sooner or later. But the cannon should prove useful for burning the village.
Canons have 50% bonus on colony defense, right? They're not that bad....
Firing up, this time no disk search needed. :)
108 - Doing like Darkness said. Lumber shipped with wagon from Silver to capital and carpenter already there. Merchantman sails to Europe.
109 - Monte made peace with de Champlain. So much for the war. Missionary comes to Tenochtitlan but cannot spread anything there. WTF? May be he needs to wait for the Planter to finish training? Now, instead of disk I'm looking for a manual. The manual says that the fucking button should be there yet it is not. So, wait it is.
110 - Price of horses goes down to 1 (From what? It would be helpful to know what it were) which is good. Silver also goes down to 17 (same confusion as with horses) which is bad. We have a veteran soldier on the dock waiting. Shabba finished cannon. Set to build another one with 3 carpenters (moved one from making cigars). There is almost enough lumber there for 3 turns. Our planter offended the natives while moving and was attacked yet he survived somehow, being yellow in health and such. Lumberjack started chopping wood in Silver. What a nightmare is this, I mean missionary crap. Saving and going to CFC to read what is the problem with missions. Will be back hopefully shortly.
So, we have war with Monty??? Moving a colonist through a burial side is not a good idea.
If we really are at war, we are doomed....
OK, I think I got it. The profession says it is colonist (see screenshot 1) even though the unit is called Jesuit missionary. In order to be able to establish a mission, the unit has to have a missionary profession and this can be changed only in the settlement. So, the missionary goes back to Fishertown to change profession and then try again. [lol] Quite a peculiar feature indeed. For details see http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=295665
Moving right along. Wagon has nothing to do unless being automated which I generally dislike, so just pressing space.
111(3) - Nothing happening, all quiet, missionary marching back, pioneer pioneering, wagon went to get some more lumber. All ships gone missing somewhere apparently to Europe.
112(4) - Both galleon and merchantman arrived at the same time. Sell everything, get about 2000 gold overall. Pick up soldier into galleon and hurry free colonist for 710g which put into merchant to sail into wherever fur trappers are trained. It will take a long time though there is not much to do otherwise. Merchantman with soon-to-be-trapper sails back but galleon remains (there is still some storage room) since there are some point which can be spent for an Indentured servant who actually might make cigars. Or we can buy cigar maker? It will cost 900 g but cigars are still quite expensive so it will be a good investment. OK, I buy tobacconionist or whatever and put him in galleon to sail to Shabbatown. In the end, both ships sail to homeland. There is no money left for preacher, sorry.
Oh, carpenter goes finally to Silvertown to build cathedral.
113 (5) - The music gets really annoying, some pow-wow Indian song and I'm getting sleepy and starting to develop a tooth-ache. Carpenter arrives to Silver. Scout has nothing to scout, so he can be loaded on a Merchantman and shipped back to make some goodies somewhere. Pioneer finished farm and went to a mountain but I'm not sure if a mine can be built on a mountain. I guess we will know next turn.
114 (6) - Oh yes, baby, he can build a mine on a mountain! The benefit of it is quite small though but it only takes 4 turns. On the other hand, the ships emerged from Europe and it will take the merchantman 9 (!!!) turns just to sail somewhere nearby the village where tappers are trained. I don't think it is worth the effort however tempting is seems and even if we channel the guy into caravel to free up the merchant, it would take even longer. If I'm getting it right, the game should be already in the ending phase around the time when this guy is trained and gets back from there (total about 30 turns since he would have to walk to the destination). So, sorry, I'm not inclined to do just that and instead he is going to become a Cotton Farmer in Teotihua which is right there and right now.
Silver stopped growing after joining the Carpenter and there is another fishermen needed there or may be not, cannot tell.
I change missionary to missionary (see picture 2) and send him back to Tenochtitlan.
115(7) - Monte comes and gives a gift of 18 furs. Samuel comes and offers to trade maps. Why not since he adds 110 gold for that to happen. Quite a nice deal IMO.
116 (8) After some thought, instead of going to have a Cotton farmer out of the free colonist, I decide to send him to be a fisherman.
Notes to next player:
- Caravel will pick up a new colonist from Fishertown to train him as fisherman (due in 4 turns). Same caravel can bring tobacco excess into Shabba-t to make cigars or just plain sell in Europe. There is to me some serious smoking out there.
- Cigar maker is going to Shabbatown to make cigars from tobacco.
- Soldier sits in Silvertown but can be reused into something else.
- Missionary goes to Teno to spread whatever he can.
- There is considerable excess of lumber in Silver-t which can be either moved to Shabba-t by wagon or may be a carpenter can be moved from Shabba-t to Silver-t but at present, Silver-t is low on food and not growing. However, food can be sent by same wagon from Shabba-t to Silver-t to provide the sustenance there.
- Merchantman brings a colonist to be teach him how to fish in Tlaleloco up north. Or may be since it is faster, it can go to Tiwanaku while caravel from Fisher-t can go to Tlaleloco instead. That would give us 2 fishermen in a shortest possible time.
- IMO, it is time to think about independence bells and make a supply of guns.
- Galleon in Silver-t is waiting for wagon to come and then can load the goodies and sail to Europe with full load of silver and stuff.
And last pic is the suggested logistics for caravel and merchantman with regards to fishermen training.
Cannon will be finished next turn and I would suggest to build another wagon to put guns in it and may be horses as well to hide. But so far, REF does not seem to grow (another picture).
socralynnek
25-10-2008, 11:23
If I understood correctly, then we can safely buy some cannons in Europe screen.
The only things making the REF growing is liberty bells (not Rebel sentiment directly) and units you buy from the king in Diplomacy screen.
But I asked in the corresponding thread at CFC strategy articles to be really sure.
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=294394
BTW, should we build Political Points with a Carpenter somewhere? We are lacking on Founding Fathers, I think.
Shabbaman
25-10-2008, 11:52
OK, I think I got it. The profession says it is colonist (see screenshot 1) even though the unit is called Jesuit missionary. In order to be able to establish a mission, the unit has to have a missionary profession and this can be changed only in the settlement. So, the missionary goes back to Fishertown to change profession and then try again. [lol] Quite a peculiar feature indeed. [/url]
If I understood correctly, then we can safely buy some cannons in Europe screen.
The only things making the REF growing is liberty bells (not Rebel sentiment directly) and units you buy from the king in Diplomacy screen.
You didn't understand it correctly. It's also perfectly clear in the explanation:
3. Sources of accumulated Liberty Bells
There are two ways to accumulate Liberty Bells
a. Liberty Bells yielded by your cities
b. the gold you paid for purchasing Veteran Soldiers or Cannons from the King
Both exchange rates are 1:1.
For example, you paid 750 gold for the first Veteran Soldier from the King, then the amount of accumulated Liberty Bells increased 750.
Somehow I was under the impression that warships count toward this modfier as well, but apparently they don't.
socralynnek
25-10-2008, 12:25
"From the king"
That's the point I am trying to raise.
I read somewhere else, that "From the king" means only units you buy in diplomacy screen and NOT units you buy in Europe screen.
player1fanatic over there has the same understanding...
Shabbaman
25-10-2008, 12:49
Really? That's fucking bizarre...
hurry free colonist for 710g
Can I ask why you did this? You have peter Minuit I think, so you can buy cheap specialists for a constant 800 (or 600 if you are british). Each time you buy from the "window of 3" the cost goes up, and you are building a cathedral so I guess you will be generating more crosses. Would it not be better to buy a specialist and keep the "window of 3" for crosses? You can always retrain the specialist.
Just my 2p, keep up the good game and write-up.
Can I ask why you did this? You have peter Minuit I think, so you can buy cheap specialists for a constant 800 (or 600 if you are british). ...
It were 900 instead not 800 or 600 and there were not enough money to get both. IMO, there is no reason to accumulate cash, just spend it as soon as you get it.
the ships emerged from Europe and it will take the merchantman 9 (!!!) turns just to sail somewhere nearby the village where tappers are trained. I don't think it is worth the effort however tempting is seems and even if we channel the guy into caravel to free up the merchant, it would take even longer. If I'm getting it right, the game should be already in the ending phase around the time when this guy is trained and gets back from there (total about 30 turns since he would have to walk to the destination). So, sorry, I'm not inclined to do just that and instead he is going to become a Cotton Farmer in Teotihua which is right there and right now.
Giving the cotton farmer priority is common sense, I guess. But I would still like to spend the 30 turns. No way this game will be in the final phase then!
BTW, should we build Political Points with a Carpenter somewhere? We are lacking on Founding Fathers, I think.
We also need liberty bells for that. And we won't build liberty bells, I guess. Liberty bells increase the REF. As it appears, the best strategy is to build printing presses and newspapers in all colonies, but not putting any colonists in them. At some point, we can suddenly go full-pull with statesmen to race towards 50% independence supporting colonists and 'hope' that the REF will stay behind.
BTW:
Killercane is up.
Shabba next.
socralynnek
27-10-2008, 11:57
We also need liberty bells for that.
No. It's not the only way to get Political Points.
One can build it via building it with hammers in a colony. Whether that is worth it, depends on our situation. That's why I asked. Otherwise we probably miss out most of the nice Founding Fathers.
But one doesn't get the production bonuses that way one would get with bells. But it seems, delaying bell production for as long as possible and only start producing them when one is close to declaring independence is the way to go.
Giving the cotton farmer priority is common sense, I guess. But I would still like to spend the 30 turns. No way this game will be in the final phase then!
We also need liberty bells for that. And we won't build liberty bells, I guess. Liberty bells increase the REF. As it appears, the best strategy is to build printing presses and newspapers in all colonies, but not putting any colonists in them. At some point, we can suddenly go full-pull with statesmen to race towards 50% independence supporting colonists and 'hope' that the REF will stay behind.
Having played a few games myself now, you'll need at least 50 turn to go from 0 to 50%. Also there is an advantage to having greater than 50% support for independence, every percentage point over is a percentage point bonus your units get in battles. You need to start your independence run at least 100 turns before the end or time will beat you
No. It's not the only way to get Political Points.
One can build it via building it with hammers in a colony. Whether that is worth it, depends on our situation. That's why I asked. Otherwise we probably miss out most of the nice Founding Fathers.
But one doesn't get the production bonuses that way one would get with bells. But it seems, delaying bell production for as long as possible and only start producing them when one is close to declaring independence is the way to go.
What I meant to say: to get FFs, we need both bells and points. Points only won't do the trick, iirc.
Having played a few games myself now, you'll need at least 50 turn to go from 0 to 50%. Also there is an advantage to having greater than 50% support for independence, every percentage point over is a percentage point bonus your units get in battles. You need to start your independence run at least 100 turns before the end or time will beat you
We should indeed not wait too long.
Darkness
27-10-2008, 16:02
What I meant to say: to get FFs, we need both bells and points. Points only won't do the trick, iirc.
You don't need bells. Production of political points is also effective for acquiring FF's, especially with a master carpenter (IIRC it's 3 points per hammer, or something like that)....
Darkness
27-10-2008, 18:43
"From the king"
That's the point I am trying to raise.
I read somewhere else, that "From the king" means only units you buy in diplomacy screen and NOT units you buy in Europe screen.
player1fanatic over there has the same understanding...
My current game supports this also.
I've bought 9 cannons in the F2 screen about a dozen turns ago. The REF is still at the original size now...
You don't need bells. Production of political points is also effective for acquiring FF's, especially with a master carpenter (IIRC it's 3 points per hammer, or something like that)....
Well, the FF screen suggest you need bells. Never really checked it. If you are right, it is indeed worth it!
Anyway,
This is earth to KC!
My current game supports this also. ...
+1
I've actually finally made myself play a game and it was quite easy indeed but may be due to smaller size map. The difficulty was Revolutionary but it does not seem to be very relevant. After much hassle and struggle I won on turn 280 or something like that. IMO, only few things are needed:
- FF which give cool promotions to the troops and food benefits;
- Strong production base for food, ore, tools, horses (a few, not really needed), and guns;
- Statesmen I just bought for cash;
- Good killing grounds preferably on forested hill where REF is going to land.
Shabbaman
28-10-2008, 08:59
Well, the FF screen suggest you need bells. Never really checked it. If you are right, it is indeed worth it!
Anyway,
This is earth to KC!
I propose we skip KC. Unfortunately I can't play today either, so I propose we skip me as well. I can play a turnset tomorrow night.
+1
I've actually finally made myself play a game and it was quite easy indeed but may be due to smaller size map. The difficulty was Revolutionary but it does not seem to be very relevant. After much hassle and struggle I won on turn 280 or something like that. IMO, only few things are needed:
- FF which give cool promotions to the troops and food benefits;
- Strong production base for food, ore, tools, horses (a few, not really needed), and guns;
- Statesmen I just bought for cash;
- Good killing grounds preferably on forested hill where REF is going to land.
-The promotional FFs are indeed quite handy.
-We have already started our food base, by focusing on fishermen. In my experience, horses can be bought. We do not really have to breed them ourselves. Anyway, having massive guns and horses in stock and wagons, is a good thing.
-Buying statesmen is indeed the way, I think
-Not sure what you mean here? I haven't studied the bonus system that well. In my experience, the AI either attacks from ships (dumb....) or lands troops next to a colony. In the latter case, we need plains to easily kill the REF units. Am I mistaken here?
Another thing that's quite important imho.
I played a game on this level (I think, it's the 1 but highest, right?) and I got overwhelmed by REF units. Due to AI stupidity, a war can be won, but it takes too long. Sinking all Man-o-Wars wasn't an option, because there were 42......
On the actual game:
This our order of play:
-Shabbaman
-Matrix
-Socralynnek
-Stapel
-Darkness
-ProPain
-Akots
-Killercane
PP and KC seem to be AWOL. Shabba can play tomorrow, so Matrix can get it!
Furthermore:
-I think we should make more money by selling horses and other stuff to Indians up north.
-I think we should buy more canons, now that we know it won't increase the REF.
socralynnek
28-10-2008, 10:30
Yeah, at least one cannon for each colony. Having Minuti, they are quite cheap. So, at least for a few cannons, I think it is much better to buy bthem in Europe compared to building.
And, we show military power to Monty that way, which makes him less likely to attack.
And maybe we should buy a Statesman. Not for getting bells now, but for starting teaching. We should have two or three Statesman in each colony once we start building Bells, so let's teach a few.
-Not sure what you mean here? I haven't studied the bonus system that well. In my experience, the AI either attacks from ships (dumb....) or lands troops next to a colony. In the latter case, we need plains to easily kill the REF units. Am I mistaken here?
Another thing that's quite important imho.
I played a game on this level (I think, it's the 1 but highest, right?) and I got overwhelmed by REF units. Due to AI stupidity, a war can be won, but it takes too long. Sinking all Man-o-Wars wasn't an option, because there were 42......
-I think we should make more money by selling horses and other stuff to Indians up north.
-I think we should buy more canons, now that we know it won't increase the REF.
Well, if you get ranger and mountaineer bonus, it is a bonus to attack on a forested hill. So, unlike Civ, here forested hill becomes quite a cemetery for REF.
IIRC, that Revolutionary was the highest level and I had to face there about 8 Men-of-War and a total of less than 200 REF units which came is waves of 16-20 units per landing. So, I needed about 30 units (mostly infantry) plus any dragoons you can master (probably had another 20 or so, not really needed, I used them a few times only). Generals go into Surgeon promotion so that infantry can heal in between the attacks.
I'm not sure actually trading with Indians is needed or beneficial. I also cannot see any use of cannons apart from killing Indian settlements. But do we really want that land?
killercane
28-10-2008, 20:06
Well, the FF screen suggest you need bells. Never really checked it. If you are right, it is indeed worth it!
Anyway,
This is earth to KC!
This game goes quickly. I hadnt checked in a few days. Go ahead and play I still need to play some SP games of this.
Sorry, I'm not able to play today either. I think we'll have to wait a day.
I also cannot see any use of cannons apart from killing Indian settlements. But do we really want that land?
Well, we really want to kill Montezuma. It can be done by positioning the required number of cannons right outside of their settlement and then attacking and capturing everything in one turn or may be two but then we might need to cover the cannon stack at least with 1 infantry and 1 dragoon. Keep in mind also that any natives in the settlement are converted to troops automatically when the settlement is undefended. So, for a settlement of size 4 with 4 native troops, the actual number of defenders will be 6, so one needs 4 cannons to make sure there is no surprise.
So, nobody grabs the save then?
I think we can use canons to defend cities as well. Both now, against a possible Indian suprise attack, as well as during the WoI.
And trading horses with Indians up north is really worth it! Otoh, we should soon have three silver miners active (2 on mined peaks in Crabsilver up north, one on the mined silver-bonus-peak in Silverbastiano in the south), giving us a steady 14 silver each turn!
Darkness
29-10-2008, 13:08
I think we can use canons to defend cities as well. Both now, against a possible Indian suprise attack, as well as during the WoI.
Cannons aren't good at city defense. Only fortified soldiers actually defend pretty well (with minuteman promotion). Cannons are good for killing villages and for deterrent against the Indians (good for the powergraph). In the WoI they're pretty much useless, IMHO...
Cannons aren't good at city defense. Only fortified soldiers actually defend pretty well (with minuteman promotion). Cannons are good for killing villages and for deterrent against the Indians (good for the powergraph). In the WoI they're pretty much useless, IMHO...
Don't cannons have a 50% defense bonus inside colonies?
For the sake of this Succession Game, it might be worth to make a list of all the FFs
(including points needed) we want, so we can collectively chase those.
Darkness
29-10-2008, 14:45
Don't cannons have a 50% defense bonus inside colonies?
Might be.
All I know is that my cannons always lose to the first REF unit attacking them amphibiously...
Don't cannons have a 50% defense bonus inside colonies?
It works only against natives since all REF units have either anti-settlement bonus or anti-cannon bonus.
Dudes,
The game is doing nothing for over 5 days now. Soemone ought to grab it and commit to playing. KC is up then Shabba, then Matrix. Someone, please, get it!
Original order of play:
-Shabbaman
-Matrix
-Socralynnek
-Stapel
-Darkness
-ProPain
-Akots
-Killercane
Turn 117: French mission in Teotihuacan. [:(!]
- Cannon in Shabbaville done. It will go to the Crabsilver. Next production also a cannon.
Turn 118: Tax rate from 12% to 13%.
- Signed Open Borders with the Spanish.
- Mission established in Tenochtitlan.
- Merchantman with colonist goes further to Tiwanaku.
- Galleon with silver goes to Europe.
Turn 119: Horses & lumber from Silverbastiano to Shabbaville.
Turn 120: Refusal to pay 250g to the King.
Turn 121: Sold silver. Bought Elder Statesman and sent the galleon back to Europe.
Turn 122: Population increase at Shabbaville. I sent it to school.
Turn 124: Crabsilver built docks. Next production is a warehouse.
An elder statesman??? Please explain!
Anyway,
KC, Shabba, Ynnek?
socralynnek
30-10-2008, 21:11
One Elder Statesman can teach some others...therefore we save money if we buy one now even if he doesn't work for bells now.
Can't play today, maybe tomorrow. But Shabba is probably next if available.
Shabbaman
31-10-2008, 09:07
Sure. Tomorrow morning.
I'm not sure if we already need to buy statesmen. Price on the docks doesn't seem to change much, we could postpone buying more. Having some would be feasible for teaching purposes of course.
An elder statesman??? Please explain!
One Elder Statesman can teach some others...therefore we save money if we buy one now even if he doesn't work for bells now.
Voila.
Hmm,
I have doubts and I'll try to explain why.
An elder statesmen coast 1500. Training one costs 750 + 20? turns. (does anyone know for sure??) of schooling. During these 20 turns, the free colonist can also be productive on something else (for instance growing a ton of tobacco, worth 500 or so). The net result is indeed worth it, so nothing is lost anyway. In a way we are thus discussing for nothing.
However, in the mean time, this 1500 gold could have been used for other things.
-Up northwest, we can train a sugar planter and a fur trapper. IMO we should use the caravel to bring two colonists there. Right now, our caravel is busy in and around our island. So, buying one extra caravel might be worth it.
-We could make huge profits by trading. Something nobody seems to care about.
-We could actually buy 2,5 fishermen for the price of 1 statesman. An obvious choice, I guess.
Generally, I think we make not enough money.
But don't you think it's about time to start building up liberty bells?
Darkness
31-10-2008, 15:40
-We could make huge profits by trading. Something nobody seems to care about.
Exactly. We can make heaps of money by selling guns and horses (whichever you guys prefer) to Indian villages far away from us. You can make really massive profits buying guns and horses in europe and selling them to the Indians (250-300% is no exception). preferably the villages close to the other European nations, but sooner or later they'll run out of money and then you'll have to sell elsewhere.
But don't you think it's about time to start building up liberty bells?
Uhm... No ?
IMHO it's way to early for bells.
I generally approach a (normal) game with 4 distinctly defined phases:
1. Exploration and founding the first colonies (sending multiple scouts all over the map)
2. Setting up the economy (getting the producting of raw and refined goods online)
3. Preparing for WoI (making guns, breeding horses and getting bells)
4. WoI
IMHO we're at phase 2 now. We do not have the economy yet to generate enough population/production to even think about liberty bell production and independence...
Uhm... No ?
IMHO it's way to early for bells.
I generally approach a (normal) game with 4 distinctly defined phases:
1. Exploration and founding the first colonies (sending multiple scouts all over the map)
2. Setting up the economy (getting the producting of raw and refined goods online)
3. Preparing for WoI (making guns, breeding horses and getting bells)
4. WoI
IMHO we're at phase 2 now. We do not have the economy yet to generate enough population/production to even think about liberty bell production and independence...
Indeed.
At this phase, building up bells is a serious :nono: imho. I would even like to split up phase 3:
1. Exploration and settlement
2. Economy
3. Guns & horses
4. Bells
5. WoI
Shabbaman
01-11-2008, 11:25
3. Guns & horses
Setting up a proper armory-city (near ore) is something I do usually. If you have a city with beaucoup food you can also get a lot of horses quite fast. But I'm doubting this makes sense, as you can buy guns in Europe for cheap most of the time. The main reason I don't buy guns in Europe is that I was under the impression that it would trigger the REF; this isn't the case (which is the main cause I have no interest at all in the game any more, worthless piece of crappy programming) and it makes sense to revise this "strategy". Like Stapel mentioned after my previous turnset, early in the game you can make more money with raw materials than with finished goods. I assume this is even more true (more truth, ha) for guns, which are made out of tools.
However, usually I have too much colonists in the endgame anyway and I can't think of anything better than letting them produce goods. Better that than building more cities.
Anyway, I'm on the save right now.
1615 a.d. Why is there a colonist being taught in Shabbaville= There´s no statesman there atm. I´m under the impression that you have to pay for all the turns the desired profession isn´t in the colony.
1616 a.d. Colonist being taught fishery in Tiwanaku, moving the graduaded fisherman to Fish city. Cannon in Shabbaville, building another. Guns are sold for 6 each, tools are bought for 1 each, so I´d say making our own guns makes sense atm but making tools doesn´t. Because we can sell ore for 3... Sending both cigars and tobacco from Shabbaville (we have overflow) to Europe. And the silver and ore from Silverbastiano.
1618 a.d. Caravel arrives in Europe. We get an silver miner from the docks. That one will go to Crabsilver. I´m also taking a shipment of guns to sell to the Iroquis or Inca, so they can annoy the Spanish. Changing master distiller to making rum (6 rum at 11g, 4 suger at 5g, I think this makes sense).
Merchantman from Fishy to Shabbaville with food and tobacco, will pick up cannon and horses (for breeding) and return. Fisherman added to Fish city.
1619 a.d. Fisherman graduates. That´s faster than I thought.
1620 a.d. We should send a carpenter and lumberjack to Fish city. I´ll buy these in Europe. In Shabbaville we could increase tools production, as we have ore overflow and no net tools production. But as I said, tools are cheap. On second thought, I´m already sending a carpenter from Shabbaville to Fishy, as we´ll run out of timber there in two turns with two carpenters.
Reloaded because cat sat on my enter key.
1621 a.d. Tax increased to 15% after I sold the shipment from the galleon. Bought a carpenter, lumberjack and horses (to trade).
1623 a.d. Eh... the french build a colony right on top of the mais next to Tenochtitlan... if they expand their borders we´re screwed. I´m for declaring war right away, discuss.
1624 a.d. Converted native in Tenochtitlan, population increase in Crabsilver. Started stable in Fishery after the warehouse there was completed. I´m leaving it at this.
Declaring right away is indeed a good option. We might consider to wait until it hits size 2. IMO, the French colony is exactly where we want another. This way, we avoid paying a 1000 gold to the Indians.
Anyway, French military power is a joke.
I'm not too convinced we should send any specialists at all to Fishtown. Or are we planning on fully colonizing that island too?
Shabbaman
01-11-2008, 14:42
Fishy has timber and a lot of food, I'd say we want at least a lumberjack (and thus a carpenter) plus a stable there. Unless you don't want to breed horses but buy them.
socralynnek
01-11-2008, 17:47
The French are crazy founding there. Agree we'd want to capture it rather than destroying, so I think we can wait and gather our units in Teohautican.
I guess, Fishtown is the perfect place to build Political Points from hammers. We don't need many buildings there anyway, so yes, I am with Shabba on sending lumberjack and carpenter there.
The French are crazy founding there. Agree we'd want to capture it rather than destroying, so I think we can wait and gather our units in Teohautican.
I guess, Fishtown is the perfect place to build Political Points from hammers. We don't need many buildings there anyway, so yes, I am with Shabba on sending lumberjack and carpenter there.
Sounds ok!
BTW socralynnek,
Got the save?
socralynnek
02-11-2008, 11:29
Sorry. Just played my turnset in SGOTM. Might be able to play a few turns very late in the evening. Otherwise I can play tomorrow in the evening. So if someone wants to go ahead...
Darkness
02-11-2008, 11:33
Capturing after the french village grows to size 2 seems to me to be the best option. :)
Sorry. Just played my turnset in SGOTM. Might be able to play a few turns very late in the evening. Otherwise I can play tomorrow in the evening. So if someone wants to go ahead...
Nah und?
Shabbaman
04-11-2008, 08:50
I can play tonight, but I assume it makes sense somebody else picks up the save. If not, I'll play. At least I don't need much time figuring out what the previous player did ;)
Anyway, we haven't discussed what to do with the student in Shabbaville. It's going to cost a lot to make him a statesman (since graduation is in two turns, and the statesman has been there for something like three turns), we could just as well make him a lumberjack or something.
socralynnek
04-11-2008, 10:11
Nah und?
Sorry, my wife needed the computer yesterday in the evening to prepare some stuff for work.
Hmm, today I'll be home quite late. Maybe I can make it between work and going to the training. Let's see. Tomorrow I have no time at all.
So, I hope to make it today.
If soeone else wants, then just post a "Got it."
I'll get it around 22:30 CET tonight. Regardless of you having played a few turns. How about that?
socralynnek
04-11-2008, 12:16
Sounds good. If I manage to play a few turns, then I'll be done before 20 CET.
socralynnek
04-11-2008, 19:19
OK, I have 10 minutes now...not much...not enough...so take it Stapel!
Please, do not put stuff on automove!
Turn 133 (0); The new silverminer in Crabsilver is put to work. Caravel picks up colonist and will sail to the northwest, along with an indian., They will learn to plant suagr and hunt deers. Ths might be a bit controversial, but I like it :) .
Fisherman near Quebec enters merchantman and is dropped off in Fishtown.
Turn 134 (1); I get to choose a profession for a graduated student. Well, I guess I should waste 750 gold on a statesman. Not much else.
Turn 135 (2); Cath in Silverbastiano. Warehosue is next.
Turn 136 (3); Galleon sails to Europe with silver, cigars and rum.
Turn 137 (4); Merchant man brings lumberjack and carpenter to Fishy Town.
Turn 138 (5); Not much
Turn 139 (6); Warehouse in sIlverbastiano, start building wagon.
Turn 140 (7); Stable in Fishtown, sart building military points. Sell stuff in Europe. colonist from fishtown start learning fishery in Tlatelolco. I buy a carpenter and fisherman (both for Silverbastiano). Furthermore a caravel 200 horses, 100 tools and 100 trade goods.
Turn 141 (8); Some movement.
Turn 142 (9); Ships are back.
Turn 143 (10); Colonist from Fishtown is sailed to learn more fishy stuff. Indian dropped off up north to learn sugar planting. Port Royal has now size 2. We declare. Gusn are in position already....
-We capture Port Royal
-We burn St Louis.
Turn 144 (11); We burn Martinique.
Next player:
-There is a caravel to trade with Indians. It has horses and goodies. I guess they should be sold. Then the caravel can pick up guns, tools, horsies and what not form our island to seel to Indians
-The other caravel is on its way to Isanti to drop off a colonist to learn trapping.
-The galleon is in Silverbastiano. It has 2 moves left. If you wait one turn, it can bring another load of cigars (from Shabbaville) to Europe.
Shabbaman
05-11-2008, 09:13
750g for a statesman is ok, it's only 250g more than it would've been otherwise. I was thinking on moving a colonist up north to learn sugar planting (makes sense, with crabsilver being a rum city). Why the trapping, do we have a fur resource?
I never use automated moves ever, and I can't recall moving any unit without me ordering it. Must be a mistake (you know, cats sitting on the keyboard).
I think I can play a turnset early this evening. After that I'm away through sunday, so I'd better play tonight.
Darkness
05-11-2008, 09:40
I think I can play a turnset early this evening. After that I'm away through sunday, so I'd better play tonight.
I can probably play later tonight (or at least tomorrow night), so I could go after you (to keep things moving)...
750g for a statesman is ok, it's only 250g more than it would've been otherwise. I was thinking on moving a colonist up north to learn sugar planting (makes sense, with crabsilver being a rum city). Why the trapping, do we have a fur resource?
I'd rather have used the gold for trading.
And yes, there is fur near Silverbastiano.
I never use automated moves ever, and I can't recall moving any unit without me ordering it. Must be a mistake (you know, cats sitting on the keyboard).
The merchantman was on automove.
Back from my holiday in Barcelona, ready to pick up a set of turns again. Will read up on this thread tomorrow cause you guys wrote up quite some pages and I have to finish some work tonight :)
-Darkness is up
-PP get ready
-Then aKots
socralynnek
07-11-2008, 08:56
This weekend, I'll also be able to play. Let's see where and when I can jump in.
Darkness
08-11-2008, 15:56
T144 (0) – Nothing
T145 (1) – Scout is killed by French Dragoon. Silverbastiano completes wagon train, starts lumber mill.
T146 (2) – Nothing
T147 (3) – King demands 400. We refuse.
T148 (4) – Colonist in Isanti starts learning fur trapping. Sugar planter completed in Cubanacan. The fur trapper caravel can pick her up on the way back.
T149 (5) – Galleon arrives in Europe. Sell goodies. Buy horses and trade goods to sell to natives. Hardy pioneer to improve the land near Port Royal. Fur Trader for Port Royal. Firebrand Preacher for cathedral in Silverbastiano. Fisherman taught in Tiwanaku, merchentman sent to pick him up.
T150 (6) - Fishtown grows. Colonist set to fishing until he can be picked up to travel to Tiwanaku by ship. Fur trapper taught in Isanti. Sell guns to the Inca in Cuzco.
T151 (7) – Shabbaville grows. Colonist set to blacksmith for the time being. Curse a bit because I notice that we already had a hardy pioneer near Silverbastiano, so the one I bought wasn’t necessary… :(
T152 (8) – French caravel spotted near Shabbaville. Sell horses in native village Onodowagagh. Caravel with trapper and sugar planter moves south. Merchantman with fisherman moves towards Fishtown.
Darkness
08-11-2008, 19:31
Still at war then?
Nothing's happening there anyway. I just ignored the Frenchies... :)
Shabbaman
10-11-2008, 14:14
Well, at worst you bought a colonist equipped with 100 tools...
Picking up from Darkness' save.
Didnt have time to read up yet so I'll be busy with that tonight. Be playing tomorrow I guess.
OK, I think I got it. The profession says it is colonist (see screenshot 1) even though the unit is called Jesuit missionary. In order to be able to establish a mission, the unit has to have a missionary profession and this can be changed only in the settlement. So, the missionary goes back to Fishertown to change profession and then try again. [lol] Quite a peculiar feature indeed. For details see http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=295665
Same thing I pointed out to Matrix a few pages before you [lol] This goes for all specialists that use 'tools' as well, (expert pioneers/expert soldiers) except that it's easier to spot because you're equiping them with stuff. Just imagine you need to equip your missionaries wirh crosses and indulgences to stun the natives.
Read all pages and playing tomorrow, maybe in the morning but at least in the evening. Time for bed now [wavey]
Playing now. Checking up on all cities first
Checkup
Fishtown is producing military points, are we aiming for a specific founding father here? Must have missed that on my read-up as we have 1248 points gathered. I'll leave the setting to MilPnts for now.
interturn
French caravel near Shabbaville.
1644 AD, 153: Drop fisherman in Fishtown, pick up colonist and tobacco, set course to Tiwanaku. Drop Firebrand preacher in Silverbastiano and set sail to Port Royal. Load silver in Crabsilver and move wagontrain towards Port Royal.
IT: King raises taxes from 15% to 18%, we kiss pinky ring. Crabsilver finishes build, I set new build to stockade.
1645 AD, 154: Drop fur trader in PR and set him on coats, change native from 2 tobacco to 4 furs. unload horses and tools in PR as well. Move silver from wagontrain to galleon.
IT: Shabbaville finishes cannon and start stockare, Lord Baltimore joins Bolivar.
1646 AD, 155: load silver and cigars on galleon, still have to wait a bit for more stuff to come in and sail back to Europe. Colonist starts exp fisherman education in Tiwanaku.
IT: Shabba finishes stockade, changes to cig factory. Silverbast finishes lumbermill, changes to stockade. French converted native appears next to PR, wonder where he came from.
1647 AD, 156: Dragoon from SilverB kills french native.
IT: Expert Farmer on dock, Col in Fishtown
The appearance of the expert farmer on the docks made me think it would be smart to buy a colonist the last turn before the cross bar fills up. You pay a little for the last remaining crosses but you get to pick who appears. Any thoughts on this?
1648 AD, 157: Set col in fishtown to fishing.
IT:SB finishes stockade, set to drydock
1649 AD, 158: Galleon of to Europe, 190Silver, 200 cigs in it
IT: nothing
Col System crash, reboot.Have to replay 2 turns from autosave. I'm getting annoyed
1650 AD, 159: degrade dragoon to soldier again and fort in SilverB. move wagontrains around getting tobacco and ore to Shabbaville. Drop some tools from ShabbaV in SilverB for drydock construction.
IT: nothing
1651 AD, 160: I notice the trade goods in PR (yes a bit late) and try to sell em to Monty, for some reason the menu doesnt allow me to sell stuff when I enter talks with monty. maybe because the wagontrain moved this turn???? A fair task for the next player to retry, those trade goods are only good for selling anyway.
For the next player. Merchantman is on way to fishtown to pick up col and sail him off to Tiwanaku to become a fisherman as well (They call me John the Fisherman lalalala (for the Primus fans )) Caravel up north can go to Tiwanaku and pick up the fisherman in education should he finish before the return of the merchantman.
Shabbaman
12-11-2008, 21:52
The appearance of the expert farmer on the docks made me think it would be smart to buy a colonist the last turn before the cross bar fills up. You pay a little for the last remaining crosses but you get to pick who appears. Any thoughts on this?
I think we came to the same conclusion some pages ago.
BTW, SB is a low production city right? Do we need a drydock there?
I think we came to the same conclusion some pages ago.
Lots of back up reading, must have slipped through. Mea culpa.
BTW, SB is a low production city right? Do we need a drydock there?
NOt really, doing 25 hammers a turn atm. And we'll need to build a few boats so drydock are needed. I'd like to have some privateers as well as they are easy income.
... for some reason the menu doesnt allow me to sell stuff when I enter talks with monty. maybe because the wagontrain moved this turn???? A fair task for the next player to retry, those trade goods are only good for selling anyway.
...
Yes, at the start of next turn, an icon should appear for selected wagon to trade with Aztec. I don't think you can trade from the diplo screen.
I'll be playing today. IMO, we would need to start on the bells quite soon, there is no reason to delay. So, for this to happen, we need as many statesmen as we can afford and they can be either purchased or educated. Also, we might want to kill Monty and we might need to upgrade at least one of warehouses for full capacity to prepare for smuggling once the tax hits around 50%. The problem with lots of food is that one needs more bells to get the independence spirit up and it would considerably slow the things down in the end. Since the main target of REF will obviously be Silvercity, we might need to prepare some area around it as well. Still, killing Aztec on our island would be highly desirable.
For this purpose, do we want more colonists to learn some skill from Monty-owned villages? Also, we would need to buy a couple of cannons and position them for instant kill with dragoons apparently. May be time for peace with the French?
Also, is there an idea of who is learning what and where? It is possible to get one from the map though (the lower bar on the village label; the upper seems to be only active in the villages with missions which is to show how soon a converted native will emerge). IIRC, all missions and all learning is canceled at the time of war with the natives which have the colonists learning and have missions and those colonists which were learning, I guess get killed in the process but there is no message to confirm that.
In any case, the time right after the killing of Monty would be good to start with bells since there would be a number of towns of our with few colonists in them to make bells faster. IMO, for the size of an empire we have, we need at least 7 towns for faster bell production. Also, it adds some small storage capacity to decrease the need for wagons and at times of war, there is no need to educate anything as well.
Any comments? I think I would have to play tomorrow to wait for some comments.
Shabbaman
13-11-2008, 09:10
In any case, the time right after the killing of Monty would be good to start with bells since there would be a number of towns of our with few colonists in them to make bells faster. IMO, for the size of an empire we have, we need at least 7 towns for faster bell production. Also, it adds some small storage capacity to decrease the need for wagons and at times of war, there is no need to educate anything as well.
Agreed, but we need newspapers first. Do we have them already?
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