View Full Version : ***Spoiler*** Babe vs Council deathmatch
INCOMING!
Niklas, cubsfan, Council roster list ...
zyxy
Aigburth
Niklas
peter grimes
fe3333au
Nikodemus
AutomatedTeller
General_W
Paul#42
tomasjj
donsig
TheLoneMan
dl123654
tonyf12
Judge Dredd
sirdanilot
cubsfan6506
Hasdrubal Barca
... bug off!!
Here's the start shots:
http://i169.photobucket.com/albums/u204/CFC_Beorn/Cage01.png
http://img528.imageshack.us/img528/8422/whomperroomvk9.jpg
My start plan is in, if anyone wants to give it a shot. I had a couple fast warriors in mind for scouting, then a small spear/archer contingent for raiding (maybe just spears though an archer or two will make it more threatening) and then a buttload of warriors for massively hysterical upgrades into legions. Hopefully there is Iron to my SouthWest so I can plant a town on the hill SW of my FPs and not connect it to my capital. It would be a convenient spot to send warriors to.
http://i169.photobucket.com/albums/u204/CFC_Beorn/cage02.gif
And the excel sheet - manually rename it to .xls, I can't logon to my university ftp and upload it properly.
Download Attachment: icon_paperclip.gif CageStartPlan.txt (http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/Beorn/200791225110_CageStartPlan.txt)
114.08 KB
By turn 54 this will turn in 2 legions 1 settler every 5 turns. We will rely heavily on iron though, but even then 2 warriors are very swappable to an archer.
They are Aztecs and Sumerians. They have double AGR, SCI and MIL so WC, BW, Pots. 1-1-2 and 1-2-1 UU's that will make excellent early pillage units for guerilla. We start with Alpha, Pots, WC: 1 useless tech rather than 1 useless trait. 2 big 3 offense UU's.
Our strategy is to assume they want to jag rush our butts, so we'll need to make home spears and settle short distances. We'll want to send a small party, very early (Turn 25-32 units + stray scouts), to their places to disrtupt their guerilla tactics and force them to fight at their places. Ideally we even pillage a few places.
Then it's massing legions and mounted warriors. Play the numbers card. We both are commercial, they both are AGR so they'll have more pop, we'll have better pop. They have a (nearly) useless trait in SCI, which only gives them BW - and they have no IW UU.
We'll see how this plays and figure out how/when to attack, but we need to focus on getting our edge up on them ASAP: our devastating UU's.
Very good. Let's keep this spoiler active at CDZ.
I just had a flash, while talking about another PBEM, that in PBEM's you get your tile improvements 2 IBT's before completion, not just 1 (this also is valid for chops). So I re-did my spreadsheet and found a way to cut turns off growth. I'd gain 1 reg warrior at the cost of a vet spear :( but then my settlers would all come 3+ turns earlier [cookiem] which is a huge lot on the scale of an empire [cheerl]
So just in case, I figured I'd share it here and offer a spreadsheet work-up of your area - just tell me what you want to build around and I'll try to cook something for you if you want.
I'm not sure what to expect from a small map. Two warriors or three? If two then a settler next would be prudent.
Do you need me to post another picture?
A settler on the first convenient growth is what I tend to do, hence the spreadsheet. I'll do it on growth to 4 because of the added warriors. I'm definitely leaving one at home. Then the bigger we get the better, but with vet warriors or spears in between. I do suggest you do not build a granary until you have 5fpt/10spt size 5 with a barrack. Unless they go farmer's gambit (in which case our spearmen trekking party will do a lot of doubleplusungood to them), we'll need to be well geared up.
My first city will do a barrack first if we don't spot anyone too close-by. Second city will go into food chores, hopefully a 4 or 2 turn worker factory. Probably 2-turn with the ludicrous amount of BG.
As for the picture, I have your password and your save every time around so I just open it when I want to get a snapshot.
I met your warrior on the mountain. :D I think I should go to rax next too since I'm 10 away from wheel and horses. From there I can start a settler or warrior I'd think.
Should you send me BW so I can work on spears instead?
I'll send you WC for sure, BW is not yet in the bin. We'll need both, probably 50/50 (overdoing spears) so that we have good cover against fog jags and we can go around doing some pillage.
Btw I'm less and less sure about doing 0 research after the basic unit techs. Monarchy might be worth our while. They don't have Alpha so we might have a good shot at Philo for Poly. Emperor tiny tech costs will probably warrant high speed research for monarchy too. We'll see how tech costs compare to our development in income I guess, but they may try to stall game to knights (where the odds are evened out). Getting caught unprepared could hurt a lot.
Turn 16, F11 intel:
* Both of them are AGR but neither grew as fast as Whomp to 4. Mined cows? Forests?
* Cubsfan got a settler first, went from size 3 to size 1, so it wasn't on growth but he probably had time for an EW first. Doubtful he'd have two.
* Niklas is getting 7 shields at size 3, he definitely mined his cow and working a forest or something.
MM-wise, we have a big green light right here.
http://i169.photobucket.com/albums/u204/CFC_Beorn/cage09.jpg
OK Niklas kicked off his GA. It should be interesting how he manages it so early with his Jags. I'll have MW's in 5-6 turns and will have the capital hooked up with horses in 4.
Here's a pic and the possible next city.
http://img528.imageshack.us/img528/6305/89784012wy6.jpg
Because CDZ deserves to know:
Battle reports are at
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=242204&page=10
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=242204&page=11
Action starts on turn 32:
32http://i169.photobucket.com/albums/u204/CFC_Beorn/cage32.jpg
Someone never played AW, his troops are all scattered. He did pillage me twice but that won't really slow me down as much as not settling and lousy GA will slow him so I'm cool with that. He has 1 stack of 2 units so I plan on attacking it and keeping units within the cities. Reinforcements are underway.
33http://i169.photobucket.com/albums/u204/CFC_Beorn/cage33.jpg
Turn 33 sees the first MW action of the game, where one jag is balls deep in poop. I have an archer lined up so I play dare and (IIRC) leave a worker undefended while sending units to cover for the spear that went too far and attacked a jag. MW hunting parties are sent left and right to find the survivors of the first attack.
It's a real shame (for him anyways) that he did not consolidate troops outside of my roads' range, take a position where he can attack either of my cities with all his stack, and take one of them. He definitely could have. Instead, he scouted and pillaged 2 tiles. Way to go, GA!
Next interesting stuff happens on turns 36 and 37 where the chessboard play pays out: one of his wounded jags has been hiking, the other has been running. Both are soon going to be missing.
36http://i169.photobucket.com/albums/u204/CFC_Beorn/cage36.jpg
37http://i169.photobucket.com/albums/u204/CFC_Beorn/cage37.jpg
After that the enkidus show up, with a major new threat: a path through the South for General W (yes, Cubsfan officially bailed out (probably shi†less)).
A new guy shows up North on turn 38 before I can dam our land-bridge with spears.
38http://i169.photobucket.com/albums/u204/CFC_Beorn/cage38.jpg
39http://i169.photobucket.com/albums/u204/CFC_Beorn/cage39.jpg
Then I establish our presence with an attack on the enkidu: chances were on my side but really, it was a win-win; I lose: he gets a GA. I sent your warrior as GA fodder that same turn so we're good with Sumeria's GA. He could have a GA almost as productive as yours if he had more pop. Right now we have the best GA (i believe) and mine is yet to come.
I could have pushed it forwards this turn but I'd feel better opening it up so that 1 jag can sneak through only to get eaten by a mountie.
40http://i169.photobucket.com/albums/u204/CFC_Beorn/cage40.jpg
So there we are: jag on the mountain, landbridge dammed, passage east below the sea and both of them hit their GA's. I produced a settler from your capital once it was certain to grab 10spt after shrink, this way you lost no real productivity. We'll need good coordination if we want to really push the landbridge down to a more manageable 2-tiler where I would lay down a defensive city and you could keep fresh reserve mounties on nearby roads.
41http://i169.photobucket.com/albums/u204/CFC_Beorn/cage41.jpg
Possible hazard here with the EW but he won't reach your place before you do, or before you have a fresh mountie up and running.
I'm headed towards philo, will then do MM for right of passage agreements. You are running down towards polytheism and a timely monarchy. We're both good to go with gold and neither of us can effectively upgrade anything. I planned on settling 2S of my iron to have a flatland disconnect spot and get really good warrior upgrade profitability.
They will be at the end of their GA's so it might be that they will send the biggest threat right around that time so we'd be wise to consider our timing anarchy very very well. Other than that, we will beat them to a government like they've rarely been beaten before.
Oh my...Niklas had some painful RNG as he lost 4 jags to your one spear who promotes to elite. We will control the choke now. Should be interesting to see what the EW did.
He pulled a DM on you (yes, a C3C DM). C3C DM's are such that you can't do a thing with your unit on the 2nd turn so he's not going anywhere. He's sitting on a mountain waiting for your mounties to hunt him down.
As for the bridge, PUSH!
Got a settler coming in, it'll settle 2S of my iron to grab a FP. Feel free to ICS on me, I'll let you get cultural advantage if you settle there.
Philo ETA 20ish, Your myst should take 4 and then poly ~12. I'll increase science spending accordingly to your poly timer.
The council is still down Alpha, Masonry and HBR on us. Both of them. Maybe they have CB (you'll be able to tell next turn) and that would be even more troubling to me.
Niklas has his capital stalled at size 7: specialists or cow sharing. Either way, [col]
Which makes me think: on one hand, we're seeing a number of EW, but how many of those are at home? There should be a commando mission to explore the southern path and try your luck in his core. He's running low population high food = low amount of troops. Once the EW in base is dispatched, you could definitely send 4 MW's riding low south (hopefully undetected) and hunt for a break in his defences, or just to scout.
OK so the three new ones I have should head south while the 3 northern ones work with you, yes?
Sounds great. The North will hold for a while - should he folly attacking a spear stack in the open, I'm all for it, and if he tries to outrun it there'll be a greeting party. Meanwhile we get a town and a road up there. I don't know that we should send scouts before legions - mountain legions will get attacked for GA trigger, not for anything else. And mountain outposts have 3 sight range even over mountains...
Down South we need to know what this road is, and we need to know yesterday. Looks like the calm before another storm but I'd rather the next one be around their places.
So keep mixing units and growth so long as they are pushing units out. We have the leeway to outgrow them a bit here, but they're in GA so I'm still keeping a weary eye.
http://i169.photobucket.com/albums/u204/CFC_Beorn/cage47.jpg
Here we have a nice holder for a while where opening our guard and striking will be a nice solution. Btw I meant the other plain tile a bit east, but no biggie, it'll just take another single turn to setup the perimeter. I doubt he'll be ready to attack again, and if he does, he'll take more losses than he can afford. If he does, we should charge all present units for his core.
His military is average to mine. I have 2 archers, 4 spears, 2 warriors so it's very doubtful that he would have more than 10 jags for his whole empire. Some of them are bound to be at home or serve as MP so I wouldn't count more than 5 or 6, 1 wounded, near the bridge. Sumeria is weak to me so they have very few enkidus - 5 maybe 6, a couple more if they're all reg.
Research is on philo and yours could now go full steam on Poly. Should you need any gold I'm in the positive side of the account so it's yours. I'll speed it up when the time is right to make sure I keep my part of the monarchy run. Right now I can do it in 4 at breakneck so whenever you are ready, I'll push the charts on my side.
Council is down CB+Mas+Alpha+HBR.
I do have masonry but I'll hog onto it until you need to build/research something out of it, like maths next. I'll send it as soon as I see they have it, and you should hold on to CB as far as you have got 4 turns to go on Poly, then send CB/Myst pre-accepted back to back (why am I even mentionning this [:p] oh boy I'm tired, whole day working outside in the cold, that's gotta be why I mentionned that... and then the lurkers(?)).
quote:Now I'm really starting to wonder what they're up to:
http://img111.imageshack.us/img111/8459/057standoffej1.png
The MWs have gone west (not to the tile SW of the warrior, the Jag who moved has seen that tile). Why?? :hmm:
This is great.
http://i169.photobucket.com/albums/u204/CFC_Beorn/cage60.jpg
Min run on MM, making about 15 gpt. Tell me if you need any of it.
http://i169.photobucket.com/albums/u204/CFC_Beorn/cage60B.jpg
The mountain jag is a new one, so his volcalno stack is up to 4 jags next turn. Still no threat unless we get hit by badluck on the counter-attack. By the time they get home we'll have legions, if they try to run past us, and it puts our stacks in position to go attack their core as well. I doubt this is a good option for them.
Should I go East and try for Niklas' home or come down with you and fight off the rebels?
I think I can handle the rebels. I need to get some cats to hammer his enkidus and then he's through.
Btw I started a curragh in a coastal town.
http://i169.photobucket.com/albums/u204/CFC_Beorn/Choke.jpg
http://i169.photobucket.com/albums/u204/CFC_Beorn/Nikland1.jpg
Btw, roads allow you to move 4 tiles ^^
So, even with civivor done, most of my (few) PBEM's either over or in the way early turns, nothing on the schedule from Mauer's tournament at CDZ and backing away from both Larkin's SG and the current SGOTM, I'm finding less and less time for civ.
Got a full time grad load plus a part-time teaching task and it's eating away every brain cell I have that used to be chilling around the games alley. I'm starting to feel a bit like those uncles I have who get home from the job, open a beer and go brain dead on the couch for a while to recharge their batteries before dinner. I'm not sure whether that makes me old or just means I'm too busy.
Either way, I'd like a sub for the game against Council. I realize most people have probably read their spoiler thread, so it might be hard to come by. Still, on the off chance someone kept it one-sided, my seat is eagerly vacant.
It is now at a very interesting stage, with both teams having a lot of ways to win it. This is not a second-rate deal.[/used car salesman voice]
Anyone interested?
I havent read councils spoiler thread but nor do i really want to take over here, ill sub a few turns if theres an emergency and i can find my disc.
It's not urgent; I was hoping for a more permanent kind of solution. Thanks though.
Let me know if I should take over both civs B. Thing is I'm gone from March 6th till the 15th. A ski slope is calling...[:p]
Sweet, I wish I could ski. It shouldn't be a problem right now, I'll take them, but it's in the long run that I can't keep playing without making either the delays or the unthoughtfulness a hassle for you and the other guys.
Your unthoughtfulness and my full thought are about equivalent. :)
161: Retaliate, try to think about hitting fast with fast to prevent retreats, maybe not the best move but all in all we went from
http://i169.photobucket.com/albums/u204/CFC_Beorn/cage161.jpg
to
http://i169.photobucket.com/albums/u204/CFC_Beorn/cage161-2.jpg
At the cost of 2 knights, 2 AnCav and other oldies. So I'll take that 20:14 ratio anytime, and a lot more so with the unit cost comparison (1170:570) and the artillery stack they had. I'm still clueless as to why they attacked your defender stack at all, in the first place, if they wanted to establish a Dyes foothold.
To be fair, we could count the first strike that lost them 2 cavs to our 4 pikes 3 spears: we still win 22:21 @ 1330:750. And while a lot of those shields were actually gold upgrades, they are statistically 600 shields, or one GLB, behind. Add to that the GLB they built for 2 techs ... we're in good shape.
Combat log here (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=6999800&postcount=847), the mounties did a terriffic job, and the MDI's took heaviest losses yet also did tremendous. A lot of knight retreats make me think I should've used fast against slow, but I'm still undecided.
MM for Phys in 6 down from 7, Metall in 3 (MilTrad in 7 total).
I can access CDZ from the college I work in but the other site is blocked.
So here it goes, for the curious:
http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/beorn/2008818201949_cage175-1.jpg
120.42KB
http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/beorn/200881820201_cage175-2.jpg
87.1KB
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