View Full Version : ***Spoiler*** Klammi's pitboss game (Arabians)
Where to start as I'm a bit late with this. Robi to the west, Killercane to the South, and Stapel getting whooped between the two. There is plent of space around, but apparently not enough for Robi. We had reached an agreement of non aggression untill 775 AD, but I just got a PM from him that there's a possible misunderstanding because I plopped a city down? He'll have to fight for it is all I have to say. Unfortunately, the warmonger in him that he denies, is a bit more powerful than I am right now. Working on it though. In the meanwhile, I founded Hinduism and have the holy temple for them. Spreading the religion around my cities quite nicely. More to follow (need to go get screenshots.
Civstats http://www.civstats.com/viewgame.php?gameid=358
Demoscreen at 200 BC. Got some work to do, but am currently working on boosting those top 3 (GNP, Production, and food)
http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/mauer/2007623183941_Demoscreen.JPG
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My worldview. The city in question is obviously the one on the NE of my border. I believe he's a bit out of line, but if he needs an excuse to declare then whatever. My problem is that I haven't really opened too many diplomacy channels yet.
http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/mauer/2007623184152_the arabian world.JPG
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This ought to be a pretty nice looking city as soon as I get her fixed up.
http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/mauer/2007623184311_good city.JPG
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I'm thinking here for my next city.
http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/mauer/2007623195731_another city.JPG
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And possibly here.
http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/mauer/2007623195934_and here.JPG
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Have sent and received several PM's to Robi. Apparently all is well for the time being. Also, I've been looking and it looks like just about everyone was gonna shoot for COL/CS via oracle. Everyone has meditation and preisthood but me. Apparently KillerCane dashed those hopes by building it early and getting feudalism though.
I've also sent a PM to Klammi to try and open up good relations and a possible I got your back if you got my back agreement. As far as Robi is concerned that is. I have no intentions of taking on Robi, just to make sure that borders are not compromised anyways.
Here's the current situation scorewise, and the agreements that I've gotten with each:
731 Klammi India - Indefinate NA agreement
648 Casey Aztec - 10 turn warning
563 mauer Arabia - This is me
555 Robi_D Celtia - 775 AD NA agreement
465 BCLG Vikings - contact, but no agreements
288 robboo Mongolia - 500 AD NA agreement Vassal of Klammi Will be gone soon
0 Darkness Inca - eliminated
0 Stapel China - eliminated
Robi has eliminated Stapel, and at 350 AD the 775 AD window is closing in. I can only imagine that I am his next targe since he has a 1000 AD deal with Klammi and Casey is his war ally (against Stapel). I don't have quite enough forces to put up an attack force, but I can surely defend especially with cats coming online now. I have sent Robi a PM asking for an extension to 1000 AD for our NA agreement. Not entirely for peaces sake, but mainly to root out his intentions.
Also, I built the Great Library in Kingsland, and it was under 10 turns (no whipping). I chopped forest outside of my borders, and neared starvation working hammer tiles to get it done. No one else has Lit though, just wanted it quick so I could then focus on military units. Kingsland is pumping 2 turn axes, and my next two highest cities are producing 3 turn axes. Oh man, Camel Archers seem soooo far away right now, but I'm trying to get there.
Things are changing. Casey and BCLG are in a world domination alliance. Robi was seeking a long term NA with me, but I'm not ready for that yet as I'm still looking for my game breaking move. I'm pretty sure that now Casey has declared war on Klammi, Robi is going to get worried and possibly join in against Casey. Just a guess though. Been beefing up my military a bit, and I think someone just lost a buttload of troops as I am now #1 in soldier count. Possible that Robi gave Klammi some troops cause I think Robi was #1. Anyways, pics below [cool]
http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/mauer/200771522840_540 AD.JPG
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http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/mauer/200771522858_War.JPG
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Alright, may have just lost the game via diplomacy. Killercane had made me an offer, which at the time I couldn't refuse. He was going to send me roughly 20 soldiers to aid me in an effort to bleach the world of the celts. Problem is, after I accepted the deal he then proceeded to tell me that he not only was going to want the troops back, but that he planned on attacking me when I was done with Robi????
So I started thinking.....shaa, right. Anyways, so I cancel the deal with Cane (with some 400 years room to spare), and then I offer Robi an extended NA and ask for his help in taking out Cane since BC and him are planning on ruling the world anyways. It's possible, but i'd be surprised if Robi could handle Casey on his lonesome. My guess though, is that Casey is now offering Robi the same deal he gave me since I know Robi's been on and hasn't replied to my PM. Thus the "loss via diplomacy" comment mentioned at first. Whatever, if that's the case...good luck Robi.
quote:Originally posted by mauer
Here's the current situation scorewise, and the agreements that I've gotten with each:
755 Casey Aztec - 10 turn warning
688 Klammi India - Indefinate NA agreement
688 mauer Arabia - This is me
615 Robi_D Celtia - 1000 AD NA agreement
566 BCLG Vikings - contact, but no agreements
381 robboo Mongolia - 500 AD NA agreement Will be gone soon
0 Darkness Inca - eliminated
0 Stapel China - eliminated
just updating
Ok, I'm paranoid. Just updating here. Have talked with Robi, and although he's against a current action against Casey, I've decided to go ahead and give my obligatory 10 turn notice. The Killercane/BCLG duo needs to be put to a halt before it's too late for the rest of us. It appears that they have the only teamwork going on, which could be the ruin of the rest so I gave my notice while they were both occupied in other wars. Have asked Klammi to hold out on making peace with Casey for at least the 10 turns so as to provide him with a two front war.
Here's my the total sum of my exploration....Obviously there are more cities in the apparent "dead zone" around Klammi/Casey/BCLG than when I first went through there. That's alot of traveling for a scout. He set off at the very first of the game, and is still alive and kicking!
http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/mauer/2007727222517_the world.JPG
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Oh, and the 10 turn warning would be up on the august 1. I also have talked with Casey and he verified it. So we'll see what happens. I have received intel of him having some war elephants, so I'm adding a couple spears, already had a couple, to make sure that my axes aren't murderized.
Currently I have a NA with Robboo until the BCLG/Casey problem is resolved. Not that he's close enough for me to worry about anyways. My GNP is suffering as well. I planted another city, my first and only coastal city thus far, and it jerked me down from 2nd in GNP to 4th :S Markets should be solving this problem shortly though.
A couple more screen shots for you guys that are interested.
http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/mauer/20077283456_power graph.JPG
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http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/mauer/20077283515_demoscreentroops.JPG
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Well, the war is a go. My main attack force crossed the border and found a pretty good sized aztec stack waiting for them. Casey and I have agreed to a NO DM, with him taking the first turn.
http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/mauer/20078223518_War I say.JPG
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Well, the good news is.......yeah, that about covers it. He took out 17 of my 34 units on the initial reaction, and he lost 15 of his 19 and retreated the rest of them (mounted) to the city. He's whipping like crazy, so I'm hoping a long war will rule the day in my favor. Oh yeah, I had a second wave that I misclicked and they retreated. I'm not happy at all about that.
EDIT: Then on round 2.......I lost my remaining elephants, and several more axes. He now has enough cavalry and catapults (via the whip) to repel my remaining forces. I'm pushing 1 turn units out of 2 of my cities w/o whipping, so no peace yet. Hopefully with him pulling some pressure off of klammi something can get organized from that side as well. I strongly believe Simon is gifting him units as well.
You'll see below a few graphs that show the change in things. My power bar fell just as much as Casey's did...which was a huge drop. I'd say we've both lost about 25 units a piece. Damage done on my part was the loss of one huge stack. Damage done on his part was the loss of his stack and some major whippage. My GNP is outdoing his, and I still have the whip option to go with that. I'm still in second in "soldier count", again for whatever that's worth. My second wave is a few turns away from being ready, and it'll be roughly the same size. Just gonna go about it a different way than the last. He can attack if he wants, but he'll fail. Anywho, for you graph lovers.....
It's not letting me atm, I'll add them later.
Was a big argument about turn order yesterday. Casey, the bastard, and I came to the conclusion that it was simply a communication breakdown and alot of stubbornness on both sides, mostly his. He eats monkey balls. Hairy ones at that.
Seriously though, he's been whipping like crazy still. I can see all but one of his cities and they are between 2-4 pop. I've been whipping a bit, but mostly in my two lowest producing but fast growing cities. I've got 2 cities putting out 1 turn units, and 2 other cities alternating 1-2 turn units so whipping isn't necessary for me at this point. Atreides, my city with a screenshot in post #2 is where I have heroic epic and it's putting out 1 turn units non stop.
I'll get a screenshot next time I go in, but as it stands I have 33 units on multiple plots around Dantoo, which has about 19 units in it. About half of his units are horses, and I have plenty of cats, plenty of elephants (+50% vs mounted units) several longbows with +25% vs mounted among other things, and several spears. I didn't see anymore cats in his city, but saw one on the way. So if all goes well, I'm hoping to actually tackle the city in the next 1-2 turns....oh, and the defenses are now at 0%. Wish me luck...unless you don't like me, and then up yours anywho :D
Here's the screenshot of Dantoo. It's a terrible editing job, but you get what you pay for.
http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/mauer/2007810231711_again.JPG
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Dantoo has fallen, and Casey proved very worthy a foe there. I didn't lose a whole lot in the last two turns while he did, but to scamble the defenses he did was impressive. What's amazing is that I'm building units so fast, first in power graph and soldier count, but my MFG is 3rd. Klammi has jumped to first in that area, with Robi a very close second.
Now that Klammi's building knights with the highest MFG and I've wiped out half of Casey's units I'd say it's all down hill for Casey from here. Unless Simon gets in the mix that is, which is very possible since I have no deals with him and am unaware of any deals with him and Klammi. My GNP is suffering, so I really hope this doesn't last much longer at all or I'll have to take peace with Casey.....as he's already asked for it. Moved my highest cash raising city to push for even more, taking away from a good military city but I fear I'm falling behind in the tech race. I'll have Guilds in 11 turns, so the camel archers should keep me on par military wise for a little longer should diplomatics change any. Darntootin, formerly Dantoo reloaded, below.
http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/mauer/200781235645_Darntootin.JPG
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Anyone reading this?
Anywho, Klammi was able to take down two of Casey's cities this turn. They were both left undefended. Casey's down to 4 cities now and has a GNP of 3 [confused] I saw he's running Hereditary Rule, Bureaucracy, Slavery, Decentralization, and theocracy. His capital is gonna be a son of a gun to take down by the time I get there. Hopefully klammi can punch out some more Knights ASAP and push his muskets as well.
Pastorius
12-08-2007, 21:17
Just finished reading it now, and I must say I like this game a lot, as a spectator/log reader
Sweet, I have a reader. I think it's always neat reading spoilers from several perspectives. Or going back and reading others after the fact. I think Klammi and Robboo are the only 2 of the last 6 not writing a spoiler for this one.
Small update, took Cloud city. You'll see it in the map below. It has the oracle and stonehenge in it. A little free culture anyways. So I had already pillaged his horses, elephants and copper. So now he's only got iron. He doesn't have CS, so that means his best chance is longbows and catapults. That's manageable. Anyways, below is the world according to Mauer.
http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/mauer/2007817205435_my world.JPG
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failedreality
17-08-2007, 22:14
How are your relations with Orange? Pretty close borders, hope all is well..
Oh yeah, that's Robi D. I'm gonna play Secret Squirrel here, will update on the orange later :D
failedreality
17-08-2007, 23:01
That was an awesome cartoon .. .
Finally! Killercane is dead! Now my economy, which went from 2nd to worst with 4 civs remaining, can finally start recovering. Just by taking that last city and not being at war (units in enemy territory) saved me almost 30 gpt. Started markets a few turns ago, and whipping them where it's better to instead of waiting. Camel archers up and running now as well. Klammi's leading the warfare technology front with muskets and knights, thankfully I've got an end game NA with him. His production, GNP, and crop yield, as well as his tech lead, is all #1. That's after taking an early beating from KillerCane as well.
With 4 civs left (BCLG, Robi, Klammi, and myself) I don't see a space race finish here. Simon will probably end up taking on Klammi, or us northern guys will take on Simon. That would be smarter for me and Klammi, but smarter for Robi to get in cahoots with Simon to hit Klammi and me. We'll see I guess. Still building military, working on economy, and headed for engineering to make movement around my expanding empire much easier.
killercane
29-08-2007, 18:10
You definitely whooped me. I never could have outproduced you, and should have attacked earlier or made a more long term peace with you without telling that I would attack you later. A lack of Forges and productive tiles hurt, but the Stonehenge city should be real nice for you.
Klammi scrambled his troops just in time to prevent me from taking his Pyramids city (I think he had 2 injured LBs left in there and then his new stronger reinforcements took a toll on my stack). I really felt good about taking it, but made a wrong turn since I didnt know I was so close to it, and that cost a turn. From then it was tit for tat until the end. I still dont think that even with Police State and peace with Klammi I could have stopped you at that time, I would have needed to build up pop and production to have competed with you. The low pop Klammi cities would have provided much needed production if they could have grown.
Simon gave me one pike at the end and upgraded a spear for me. That was the extent of troop help (he did provide me with resources after they were pillaged). I certainly cant fault him for that though, he had Rob to finish off.
I really wish that I had gotten you to attack Robi; I think you would have crushed him too. Definitely bad diplo and a failure to recognize MFG lead on my part.
Indeed a nice game Casey! Think Klammi holding out on peace was the kicker though. He made some goofs on defensive counter ops apparently, but still held tight in the end. No comment on the Casey licks hairy monkey balls remark? I put that in there just to see what you'd say later.....lol
Unfortunately, now I'm facing a barbarian uprising like earlier in the game, with all the dead space and all.
This is really the tough part of the game, and while it looks as though it's anyones game, I'm gonna make an early declaration that Simon's got it in the bag. I know he's probably the best player left, and can pull things out of his behind in a fix. He extended peace with Klammi until 1600 while mine with him is 1500.
I have an endgame NA with Klammi (not alliance, just NA), endgame alliance with Robi (secretive and all), so I'll definitely be at war with Simon before too long. Either him coming or me going. Klammi is also gonna attack Robi around 1500. So my hopes are that Robi can kill Klammi, and that I can kill Simon. BTW, Robi has the smallest empire and largest army. He has pikes, so he can handle Klammi's knights defensively.
killercane
29-08-2007, 18:37
No I laughed at that. Its funny, at the beginning I thought you were one of the ones to watch out for, and then everybody tells me that I should worry about Robi more. Guess I was right in the beginning eh?
I posted in Simon's spoiler that it really is anyone's game. Klammi has a strong economy, you have huge production, Simon has a good bit of both, and Robi is an excellent player.
Your lack of cottages is going to hurt in the long run if you dont conquer the world first dont you think? My former cities should easily pay for themselves but with this damn no tech trading that has to hurt you until you build back up.
Yeah, I went for population and hammers with no foresight in building cottages. How can you tell I don't have many cottages? Well, in my bigger cities anyways. I've got plenty of plantations ready to go up that should get me some money. Also, my newer cities, south of my core, and your old cities are cottaged up. I also have a market in every city except old Aztec cities. Kingsland also isn't doing too bad for cottages, but that's where my GP's are coming from. Still haven't figured out the balance between setting up a couple GP cities and having nice production, but every game is a learning experience.
Oh, and as far as Robi's comment about "Not the 4 he would have guessed", I in no way would have ever guessed that I would be in the final 4. Would have guessed Simon, Casey, Robi and Darkness.
killercane
29-08-2007, 19:00
I can tell from screenshots of your lands in other peoples spoilers. Its definitely interesting to read everyone's take. Klammi doesnt have a spoiler does he?
Here's where we stand at 1460 AD:
Robi and Klammi WILL be warring at or about 1500 AD. Robi's troop numbers are insane, roughly 100,000 better than anyone else. Anyways, apparently Klammi has mistaken our Non aggression pact, and our mutual war effort vs Casey as an alliance. He sent me a message via civstats, quoted below:
quote:Hi cody,
Watch the power graph. Robi is popping units like hell. He indirectly said that he is planning an assault against me. We have 7 turns left to get prepared. We have to stay in good contact and inform us of his troops movement. I will also be prepared for an attack from the sea. I suppose he will try to invade me at my capitol, since this is the aorta of my civ. Would be good if you prepare for an offense in 7 turns. Did you have extended your peace treaty with Simon? Do you have to fear his troops?
I'm really getting nearvous watching the power graph. Will try to pop out as many units as I can. So maybe you should do the same ;)
Greetz,
Klammi.
Then when I didn't respond quick enough he apparently got paranoid and sent me like 3 more basically asking what's wrong with me, do I want to see him dead and so on, to which I responded:
quote:Think about this, would it be wise for anyone to go to war without securing their backside? Unfortunately, this whole time I've been worried about Simon going on the warpath it was Robi that I should have been worried about. Being sure that Robi wasn't going to declare on you, I had made an agreement with him. I understand that we have a non aggression pact, and I will not in any way give him troops or intel.
Please don't take this the wrong way, but we did have a non aggression pact and not an alliance. I helped you stay alive in a war that you most certainly would have lost and am currently securing a stronger economy that a war would hinder. You got Casey's capital and a chance to continue in the game, and I gained one good city and a knight.
Oh, and to the question of would I like to see you die (in game of course), the answer is absolutely! I would love to see all 3 of you die...lol Then I would win, which is the point of the game right?
So, we'll see where it goes from here. I'm hoping Klammi goes down and after 1700 me and Robi put a whooping on Simon.
killercane
05-09-2007, 02:48
Lots of "we"s in Klammis message. I had thought he was preparing for a war with Robi...
I know he's been busy building lots of nice wonders for people to conquer. Running Caste as well, which he'd better change before robi comes in. Lot's of GP's don't do a bit of good if you're dead.
A few pics and a small update below them. This first one is my capital. I'm thinking I should probably lay off the GP's for a few turns and let it grow some more.
http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/mauer/2007913235859_Kingsland.JPG
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This one is my unit city. It's basically been building units non stop. Have a military academy and Heroic Epic there. I think I'm the only one not able to build grens yet :( but I'm pushing camels at 1/turn. Haven't even got gunpowder yet, 2 more turns.
http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/mauer/2007913235823_Atreides.JPG
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After Kingsland, this is my 2nd highest money city. Slacking behind everyone else though in GNP due to my lack of mature cottages :( Also am working on irrigating those other tiles as we speak.
http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/mauer/2007913235935_RepublicanArmed.JPG
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Was gonna get some more pics, but I lost my connection to the pitboss. It's been rainy here and it messes with my connection. Anywho, the situation. I'm guessing that Klammi got grenadiers about 2 turns or so before Robi declared war on him. He was able to whip out just enough to repel and actually destroy most of Robi's attack force. Robi is now in a major defensive position. He says he can pull through it, but I don't see it. Even if he is able to get grens next turn as he says.
I'm really wishing now that I hadn't made that NA pact with Klammi. BCLG is climbing the corporate ladder, and will soon be untouchable I think. I'll have finished my round of libs and banks in all my cities next turn and will focus 100% on military build up in preparation for the end of my 1700 AD NA with BC. I'm fully expecting for BC to offer some kind of deal with me so he can attack Klammi though. Would be the smartest move for him IMHO. I have the worst GNP and am already behind in techs, so klammi is his only real threat.
Still looking for a way to win this although I'm coming up with nothing as of right now.
I need to get screenshots later. For now though I'll give the plot. BCLG is soaring in score, pop, techs etc etc etc. I have an end game NA with Klammi cause of my stupidity, and Robi has reduced himself to bystander. Really would have liked to see Robi put a whooping on Klammi and then us two soar on to Simon, but I digress.
Robi has been giving me all his grenadiers to aid in my soon to be war with Simon, and Klammi is revving up his battle plans. My only viable options here are UN victory and domination. UN victory not so much, domination..tough but maybe. As of right now I've got 25% of the pop and about 25% of the territory. I really need to put a whooping on Simon and capture as many cities as possible, fill in all the gaps, and farm everything once I've done that. Will have cavalry in 2 turns, and possibly have cannons (at least upgrading my cats and trebs) by the time 1700 roles around and thus starts the simon war. More to follow later.
Rik Meleet
24-09-2007, 00:24
How much chance do you give yourself to be able to do the neccesary tasks for a Domi-vic ?
killercane
24-09-2007, 00:35
I think running Merchants will give you a better return than running scientists, as you can run the sci slider higher. Also probably you should move your capital off the coast to a more central location, change many food tiles to cottages, and build Courts/FP sometime during the attack on Simon. Then you will have enough money maybe.
Also I notice that you only have domestic trade routes. Adopt Merc like everyone else is probably good if you havent already.
quote:Originally posted by Rik Meleet
How much chance do you give yourself to be able to do the neccesary tasks for a Domi-vic ?
Not much at all. I'm way over rated, I seriously suck. KC sucks more cause I killed him...lol
I think I am running Merc??? Good grief, I need to go check now. I absolutely do need to get some courthouses though, I'm seriously sucking on upkeep.
mauer...whats the victory screen say for domination. IF they kill enough of each other you could sneak by.
Wow, forgot to update this. Funny how it goes by so quick. Sorry Rob, didn't even see your post here, I'll check next turn. Anyways, to the nitty gritty of it. Klammi and I have been working with eachother to take on Simon. He's been a bit more succesful than I have. I think he's captured and razed 4 or 5 of Simon's cities (including Simon's Spot, his capital). I have done nothing but die, die and die on the front lines.
Soooo, Robi tells me last night that he's gonna mess with Klammi. Helpful to me and Robi. I guess Robi has a nasty message, in character of course, for Klammi of the Indians and I get the following email from Klammi:
----- Original Message -----
From: "klammbueddel" ************
To: <*************>
Sent: Monday, October 08, 2007 11:45 AM
Subject: Good guy or bad guy?
> Surprise surprise,
>
> you told me that Robi is not going to attack me:
>
> [03.10.2007 15:15:25] >> he's not going to attack, just leave him be, it
> takes away from the Simon war
> [03.10.2007 15:15:46] >> he literally has no army
> [06.10.2007 17:41:51] >> hmm, he's seriously not going to attack you
> [06.10.2007 17:42:48] >> was just saying, he gave me almost his entire
> military.....lol
>
> Robi will not extend the peace treaty.
>
> Robi: Anyway i have more then you think they are just not in my hands at
> the moment
>
> This statement leads to the conclusion, that you are going to stab me in
> the back while spreading lies to make me feel save. You did this once, and
> I'd been seriously disappointed. Hope you can clarify that you will not
> give any military to Robi, since you'd be a liar then. To base victory on
> a lie is not what I think would be an honorable victory.
>
> I'm looking forward your statement, whether we fight together against
> Simon or you essentially fight against me.
>
> I know you want to win the game and you cannot attack me yourself, but
> those kind of practices are really crooked, in case they are true. If not,
> I will retract all what I said here, if true, shame on you!
Break here..........
To be quite honest, this email made me pretty darn angry. The reason they say not to respond when your angry should be quite obvious by my following reply, which of course I sent promptly.....
You seriously just called me a liar? I did that once before!? This is news
to me. I have other words to insert here, but I digress. You know when I
found out Robi had plans of his own? Last night before I went to bed. Also,
it is not up to you to dictate to me what is honorable and what is not. If I
made a deal with Robi at any point in time regarding troop transfers,
whether temporary or otherwise, or as a soveriegn entity in the game, I
absolutely do not need your consent or approval. I have done nothing
underhanded whatsoever, and your labeling of me as either a good guy, bad
guy, honorable or not is absolutely ridiculous.
When I said Robi isn't going to attack you, it was not based on
conversations I've had with Robi as I have had none with him about it. My
statement was based off of mere observations that it would be quite
ridiculous for him to attack. I'm not a teenager, so don't interact with me
in this childish manner. I'm not up for scrutiny against some sort of
congressional subcommitte, so stop interrogating ast though I will face
purjury charges. I'm at war with Simon. I did not lie to you. End of story.
You asked me before if I would give Robi's units back to him if you two were
to go back to war. My answer was that it would only be right to do so. If
you two go to war, then he'll get his units back. I regret that you've taken
this position, but I guess it is what it is.
Just to say, the fun has been zapped from this game. I'm almost willing to let someone else pick it up from here. Needless bickering in a game, second time for me in this one, kills the enjoyment.
Tubby Rower
09-10-2007, 12:07
without reading... you are the bunghole [:p]
Tubby Rower
09-10-2007, 12:18
without knowing Klammi, I know that sometimes I'll feign hurt feelings and accuse the opponent of devious things to make them hesitate going against me. Other times I am truely hurt by the actions as I put a lot of trust in someone. Either way this is a game of diplomacy and in diplomacy accusations and treachery is common if not expected. While I try to remain truthful to the best of my ability, sometimes the game requires a little deceit.
In my opinion, if the threat of you lying (more on this later) to Klammi was eliminated then it would be as if you were an AI. That's why people play MP games because of the actual human interaction. Did you lie? imo depends. if you had a treaty that you would reveal threats to each other upon noticing said threat, then yes you did. if not, you were as honest as I'd expect you to be given the information in the last two posts. You going postal on him might have put a target on your back now. And you are childish btw [lol]
lol, yeah that was a bit childish. Essentially what
it boils down to is,IMO, Klammi thought he knew my gameplan and when it didn't fit what he thought he got upset. I absolutely did not lie. I just didn't reveal everything, which I would think is to be expected in an MP game.
Tubby Rower
09-10-2007, 15:17
quote:overheard in the vastness between mauer's ears
Note to self:
Self, don't trust Klammi anymore during this game. Also Tubby is a jerk.
You're wrong tubbs, i'll probably still trust klammi ;)
killercane
09-10-2007, 16:03
If the following occurred,
"asked me before if I would give Robi's units back to him if you two were
to go back to war. My answer was that it would only be right to do so. If
you two go to war, then he'll get his units back. I regret that you've taken
this position, but I guess it is what it is"
what does Klammi have to complain about? He is kind of using you as a meat shield.
I am impressed Klammi has done so much damage to Simon. Does Robi really have that many units that you are giving back to him?
Not really. I don't recall exactly, but it was around 12 to 15 grens I think.
Melifluous
09-10-2007, 16:53
All I can say is whatever you may or may not have done, you've certainly made Klammi madder than a Mullah in a Pig Farm.
Seriously well done!! An angry opponent is not a rational opponent and a non-rational opponent makes mistakes.
This is one of the reasons I stopped playing MP games. To get ahead early you need friends and to win the game you need to stab them in the back. People always seem surprised and hurt when you do it though...
[meli]
Yes, but in this case there is no real stabbing. It all looks OK and looking at general layout of the game, Klammi is supposed to be happy. The more to hammer upon, the better it should be. [hammer] Also, IMHO, it is not a good idea to chat with people during the game and actually do diplo in a chat. First, people forget what you told them while private messages are still there to look at. Second, you can say something accidentally which may be later considered as a breach of treaty or whatever. Third, you can be told something accidentally and make some deep conclusions based on it while it is just a gossip. But it is just IMHO.
Melifluous
09-10-2007, 17:23
I didn't say he had stabbed him in the back, but that eventually you have to anyway before you win.
[meli]
quote:Originally posted by Melifluous
All I can say is whatever you may or may not have done, you've certainly made Klammi madder than a Mullah in a Pig Farm.
Forget the games and the discussions, it's comments like this that keep me coming back to CDZ [lol]
Got an apology email from him. I think he gets it now. I need to get a screenshot. Anyone know how to use the flying camera mode? Those always make for interesting screenshots.
Tubby Rower
10-10-2007, 00:14
get a remote control helicopter and attach a camera. learn to fly the remote heli. have a friend operate the remote camera as you need both hands for he heli..... oh wait you mean in game? nah I don't know.
First, the world as I know it. Things are changing since you were last in KC, quite a bit I'm assuming.
http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/mauer/2007101215021_carved up planet.JPG
81.64KB
Next, the mauerabian empire. I'm not the biggest land owner, but my population level has been jumping quite a bit. I've basically been farming all that is brown, and have cottaged all that is green. I started off not cottaging enough as I should have, which I think is why my tech level fell behind a bit. They are almost all matured at this point though. What I don't understand is how in the heck Klammi is out teching me at 0% tech and not very many cottages. His only real gold city is Coruscant, which he got from me after I captured it from KC. It was an arranged peace deal, but in hindsight I should have bowed my chest and kept it as it has turned into a major gold city.
http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/mauer/2007101215118_empire.JPG
104.49KB
Here's the demo screen. Klammi is really surprising me. He is the #1 in just about every category, but this wasn't the case before Simon got busted in on by us two clowns.
http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/mauer/2007101215451_1805 demo.JPG
73.55KB
Here's the stats on each city, and the build plan. Basically building units everywhere except in cities that won't build the unit before the war is over.
http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/mauer/200710121562_building.JPG
75.31KB
And this is the challenge at hand. This is where I continue to be slaughtered. Basically, even with the hills, this city is unapproachable. With the over powered cannons of Civ4, Klammi and I keep taking a beating at every approach. Trying to force him to cover Superville and expose Dark, or let Superville fall, I blitzed my cavalry to Superville and took it. His Darkenessean defenders didn't budge. However, as you can see that he's moved a war elephant to the city I think we've got him on his last leg. If we diversify our stacks, seperate them on multiple tiles, and continue to increase their numbers I think we can eventually take it.
http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/mauer/200710122924_Darkenessean.JPG
106.16KB
Also, I am currently in the middle of giving Robi's troops back to him. I've thought about turning on Robi, but since I can't attack Klammi, having Robi attack him is my best option to hurt him. I didn't prod Robi to do it, and I'm not getting ridiculous with my troop returns, but as long as he can either slow down Klammi or possibly even put a small whooping on him then we're doing alright :D
killercane
12-10-2007, 04:09
Why dont you quit building troops (and continue infra) and quit warring with Simon so Klammi has to fight two people?
quote:Originally posted by killercane
Why dont you quit building troops (and continue infra) and quit warring with Simon so Klammi has to fight two people?
That's exactly what I just did. As of this very moment I have end game peace with everyone. So I need to start building up infrastructure. Started courthouses, got rid of of my money sucking units. Am preparing for quite the angry email from Klammi for making peace with Simon. Finishing banks where they're needed.
Victory types:
Space - maybe
Domination - no
Conquest - no
Cultural - no
Diplomatic - maybe if robi can conquer enough of klammi's territory for us to get 60% or better of the pop. I am currently #1 in pop having 36.67% of the world pop, and Robi's under 20%. He said he would, but wholly dependant on his battle capabilities. I know he's rather good usually, but this game he's been a little less than par, militarily speaking.
I know this much, Klammi's about to be in a world of hurt. Not only his he being double teamed, but Simon has MG's next turn, so he's not conquering anything of Simon's. Also, I'm in free market now, so I made OB with Simon.
http://www.straland.com/images/smilies/read.gif
I don't get it. I'm boring?
No, I read in the beginning that you were worried no one was reading this, so I acknowledged the opposite. ;)
You're doing fine, mauer! Don't complain about you sucking. ;)
Well i finally read your spoiler:D
Would have hoped to do so in different circumstances but what can you do.
Just to comment on a few things you said.
Firstly right at the top i only asked politely if you were planning on building a city further west then the one you had just built and only politely informed you that if you did i would have a minor issue with that, any other suggestions are rubbish[:p]
No i am not a warmonger. Geez one game where you get dragged into to all the wars and you get labeled for life.
No i am not that good a player, unless it makes people more likely to be nice to me, in case i am that good:D
When i said not the final 4 i imagined at the start i included myself in that. My 4 would have been darkness, simon, casey, ID.
I guess 1 out of 4 isn't too bad[rolleyes]
I would have held klammi the first time around in our wars but he is the luckiest sob around. If the RNG ever came into play it was always ugly for me.
You can still win diplomatic if klammi and simon insist on continuing to beat each other over the head. It would be easy enough to get the one of the to vote for you.
Finally since you can't read my spoiler yet i am able to take the high ground and say you lyin', doublecrossin', bastard;)
but only until you can, then i'll take it all back since i did the same, but you can prove that just yet so[tongue]
You so crazy aussie man. And another thing, next time you bully me I spit upon you and the pony you rode in on. Seriously,I never double crossed you and tried up untill the moment I conquered you to pull you out of that mess. :D
I know but doublecrossin' had a nice ring to it so i just threw it in:)
Also had simon not given that that ridiculous peace treaty i would have done ok the second time around but once his troops were freed up in the south i didn't have the production to keep up with the numbers.
I have to say i agree with your decision to go with peace with both simon and klammi. They both are ahead tech wise and have better units then you. With luck they will have a very long war so you can catch up
Amendment here, they've made peace. Klammi's GNP is at zero, Simon's is at 320 something, and mine is at 270 and rising. Observatories, courthouses and what not are on the rise in Arabia. They're up on me in military techs, but I don't need them. I was actually the first one to physics this turn, so we'll see what that scientist can burn. Actually, I have a great merchant too. Golden age?
I logged in and had two scientist this turn. One from physics, and one from just popping a GS. So I got biology for free and saved 7 turns of research. Anyways, I've still got a great merchant and will probably save him for a GA.
Save the GA for towards the end when you want that final boost to the finish line. You still need those military techs for your spaceship. From memory there are about 4 non essential techs towards the end of the game for a space win
Oh no, I meant they were'nt a priority rush atm. I'm going for emancipation next and hoping the two of them duke it out again. Although I think they wised up to me and have decide to race it out and forgo the military route. Especially since I have eternal peace....suckas Although if one could conquer the other, a domination win is still not off the table for them, as I've only got about 45% of the pop and roughly 37% land. Don't quote me on that though, I'd have to double check.
It would be a hard slog if the winner keep every city they captured. There would be a lot of razing to backfill later. Best bet is to keep a few settlers at the ready to pinch some land at a moments notice
Good advice. I've got a couple settlers handy now, although I doubt klammi and simon will battle anymore. Also, how much weight do you guys put in emancipation? I'll have it next turn and they don't. Think I should go for it?
Helps your cottages grow faster so it depends if you have many to grow. As for the unhappiness its only one unhappy person per civ that has it so they ain't going to be worried. It is a low cost civic so that might help you, but that depends what your running now and how it fits with your gameplan.
I would never say never with those two. Remember the best unit in the game right now is a defensive one. Once they have something to beat it one of them might have another go.
Wow, we sat down for about an hour, hour and a half power session. We got through quite a few turns and are at 1900 AD now. There were no wars, but Robi "the brilliant" D is right. Simon is gonna take another whack at klammi, and I'm providing the artillery for it. Actually, I'm trading artillery for some resources, what he does with them is his business.
Anywho, things haven't changed a whole lot. Apparrently I'm tops in GNP and am outresearching everyone now. Not by a whole bunch, but at least a little. I started apollo too btw, and am reasearching for space elevator. I also need to try and get internet to keep them bums from getting my techs, but am not gonna make it a super dooper priority.
http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/mauer/20071024195959_1900 demo.JPG
74.38KB
I'm not that brilliant. Simon isn't exactly a peacenik[lol]
The only deals I have are the following:
Klammi: end game peace, absolutely nothing else
Simon: end game peace, gifting artillery for resources (figuring about 20 total), free use of land to move units through....absolutely nothing else
sounds simple enough.
How many have you gifted so far or is it 20 more?
I think I've only gifted one. There's a rail line set up to expedite the process, but building future ones isn't top priority. If production or gold buildings are needed then they take priority after this first round. I think 1926 is his start date, so as long as they are there before then it's fine.
Just to update you since you seem bored. 15 of the 20 artillary have been delivered in the 4 turns i've played so you should make your deadline easily. I think of the remaining 5, 3 are on the road and 2 are being built in the next couple of turns.
Otherwise not much to do. I might replace some of those warriors though ;)
In case you hadn't noticed i stopped building artillary. The last couple on the road will make 20.
Also you have a great engineer and great merchant we i put on reagansaponceolis ;) for you to decide how to use
If I'm not mistaken the great engineer can be used for the space elevator since it's a wonder and not a project right?
Small update here. I am the only one who has finished the Apollo Program so far. I've started 8 spaceship parts (Casings and thrusters) which will be done in 10 turns. I'll have plastics in 2 and **Computers in 4 and robotics in 4 more after that. Then I'll be able to build the space elevator and hopefully bust out the rest of the techs/parts for the SS. Was gonna take screenshots of my 5 best cities, but I have almost two sets of 5 best cities....so you get none. Kingsland, my former capital, is cranking out 210 culture per turn, and 3 of the 5 "Top Cities" are mine. My new capital, Darntootin (formerly Dantoo) is busting out 330 beakers per turn as well, while also spouting 120 gpt.
**EDIT: I was wrong on my techs above, corrected.
Wow so you look set for victory. Just don't choke now ;)
I've got 3 parts done this turn, and 4 more done next turn. I'm also a few steps ahead of Simon in techs, but he could always build the internet and be just a half step behind. He's also built Apollo now as well. Klammi.....sheesh.....not sure what to say. He converted to AI, that's what I'll say .[sad]
Not sure if we're gonna finish this or not, but I'll launch in 4 turns. I built the internet, the space elevator, had 4 turns for my last part and 2 turns for the other. Simon put the smack down on Klammi (AI). That's about it. Simon led in score, pop, land, and near the end there was leading in GNP. Although I had been leading for quite some time. So, I guess the games over and I'm the wiener. Hoorah [:S]
killercane
02-11-2007, 00:38
Whoo hoo! Get a screenshot if it finishes. It sucks that it might not finish.
whats up with not finishing it....
Here's the latest demographics screen. The next highest GNP to mine, up untill Simon started clobbering Klammi, was about 200 lower.
http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/mauer/200711212851_1962 demo.JPG
72.64KB
Here's a list of the top 5 cities also.
http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/mauer/20071121304_last top 5.JPG
57.9KB
Here's my city list. I clicked to rank them in order of population, but a closer look will show that Kingsland is by far the greatest city on the planet.
http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/mauer/200711213029_Cities.JPG
104.07KB
And finally, here's the world as we now know it. Any request for any particular screenshots? I'm terrible at deciding what to take a screenshot of.
http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/mauer/200711213139_Modern world.JPG
89.61KB
quote:Originally posted by Robboo
whats up with not finishing it....
From post #15 and down in the following thread....
http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/topic.asp?whichpage=17&TOPIC_ID=4265#105601
Hmmm, interesting decision by klammi. Hard to say what was going on between the 2 since only they have the messages.
How does this affect you. Is simon gaining on your lead with the extra cities he is getting now.
you should have space wrappped up.. if you have to. trade cities for time and protect the only city you need for your last ss parts
Simon is soaring in points, but he's only got 2 parts finished. I also have end game peace with those two clowns.
unless simon breaks the deal....which if you ask klammi is a certaintity. I think you will be fine, he may spy pm you and slow you down secretely
so has klammi turned it on again to finish up
yep, game's back on. Just waiting for the "Mauer wins a Space Race Victory" screen :D
Just like this one...
http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/mauer/20071181140_winner.JPG
130.49KB
Nice game, gotta say from about 1800 onwards the game became, how shall i say? less fun. Still was fun to play. Your whole peace till the end game with klammi effectivly let you win the game so nice one! Also by the looks of things a quality city helped too.
Also you better not bitch about this spoiler its pretty good.
That's funny, the first thing I did in your spoiler was compare the two. I had you locked in for a win all the way up to the point I built Apollo. Was just hoping no spies came lurking about.
Emancipation for my fledgling villages/hamlets was enormous for me catching up in techs. That along with free religion, free market, courthouses everywhere, the effects of emancipation on you two, and two great scientist in one turn. Not to mention having you two still preparing for war while I sat back building observatories in just about every city. I'm still quite shocked, although we've been on the same turn for a week now, that I pulled out a win. Just proves that sometimes it's not skill at all. Sometimes it's pouncing on the best opportunity available and hoping it works out.
i turned research off after tanks. Probably why i didnt get as many techs as you thought i did.
How come you didn't try to launch?
you and klammi were teching far quicker than i was. Not sure why for the majority of the time i had the better gnp but ohwell.
killercane
08-11-2007, 04:53
quote:Originally posted by mauer
Just like this one...
http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/mauer/20071181140_winner.JPG
130.49 KB
Congrats on your win in this at times contentious ballgame. Sorry I havent updated my spoiler!
Well done. As it turns out the deal with klammi didn't huet you.
Its kind of funny really. i remember a conversation with killercane early in the game discussing the various players and when your name came up 'cane said simon had told him not to worry about you [lol]
Don't think that will happen next time
killercane
08-11-2007, 13:03
quote:Originally posted by Robi D
Well done. As it turns out the deal with klammi didn't huet you.
Its kind of funny really. i remember a conversation with killercane early in the game discussing the various players and when your name came up 'cane said simon had told him not to worry about you [lol]
Don't think that will happen next time
Well its like I told Cody, I didnt know him from Adam in the beginning and was under the impression he was a fearsome player. I also thought he was Russian (I think I was thinking of Mahler or whoever?). Looks like I was right in my clairvoyance!
Now we all know that Mauer is a heartless warmonger. Maybe those CFCers arent too off base[nya][nya]?
quote:Originally posted by killercane
Well its like I told Cody, I didnt know him from Adam in the beginning and was under the impression he was a fearsome player. I also thought he was Russian (I think I was thinking of Mahler or whoever?). Looks like I was right in my clairvoyance!
Now we all know that Mauer is a heartless warmonger. Maybe those CFCers arent too off base[nya][nya]?
Well to be honest, I think Simon was right for the most part. It was only circumstances that led to my win.
My take:
-Don't let someone sit as the only peaceful nation for as long as I did. Robi and KC getting hung up on Stapel didn't help that, but they realy couldn't help that due to starting positions. Also, Simons inability to help KC because of Rob & Robi didn't help either.
-Don't leave your backdoor open when you tell the person at your backdoor that you have plans on taking them on.
-Don't get hung up in too much small print diplomacy. This is something I handled a great deal better than in my first pitboss, in this game that is.
-Don't build massive quantities of useless wonders.
And my biggest applause to an in game action.........
Klammi giving Simon two settlers as promised although he was in the middle of getting whalloped by KC.
Wasnt just circumstance, still took some foresight to see if you hadnt made peace with me and robi you'd be handing klammi the game.
I'm sorry Cody, there is no way your backing out of this one with and pretending you reversed into victory by accident. You made the right moves at the right times. So like it or not you have a nice big target on your back [:p]
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