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View Full Version : Game won: Ampersand's Additive Armadillo Pt.2 C3C


Beorn
11-01-2007, 01:49
If you are blind, you may keep reading. Otherwise, please do not be Soul, Blaze, Tar or Praet.



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This is the continuation of my spoiler thread from Whomp's place, and now that I have a forum, I can leave his and leave more room for my bud SW at the Whomper room. He needed place to settle, so he told me [col]

Pastorius
11-01-2007, 02:50
Have Whomper move your thread to this forum ;)

Beorn
11-01-2007, 02:58
Nah it's ok, this way I double spoile super stealth away from my agressors. Works for me. For those who were following, the Spanish 2390 Victoria Secret calendar is coming out soon ;)

Beorn
17-01-2007, 06:52
I have now met Praetorian of Germany, and I'm up a whole tech tree on them. They most likely have not learned a tech yet, or are hiding it very well... I came with good manners and openness, and have received naught but a "I'll see if we can make deals". Too bad for them.

I left it on the ice that Iron Working would be an awesome tech to trade for, from them.

However, I do expect Spain to finish it first, and to trade it there.

This smells like a nation who will fall behind, build up an archer rush and try its hand at the AI. I'd rather wait until they finish a wonder and see if I can snag it.

Curragh #2 will plunge straight into the ocean, trying to contact the westerners. It most likely will fail, and there will be more where he came from. I *will* make contact overseas.

Beorn
23-01-2007, 02:46
So Bella now knows about the wheel but I have nothing to trade her for it: she won't take pots, I won't give writing.

We are average to the Warrior and strong vs Ze germans. Mithanga has more points than I and I seriously hope it is because of tech trading with the 2 expansionnist AI's on his landmass. It would make a lot of sense that they have more low-tier techs than we do. I do hope to get the full philo slingshot still. SW will probably have a less than satisfactory beaker count so I'll do the job myself in light of our previous agreement.

Jav action coming up. Deep german scouting missions are underway as well. The scouts are doing a good job finding out about the inner lands of my opponents and my diplomats are doing a fine job making sure no one attacks them as they do so.

I told the germans I would attack a barb on a hill in their territory, but they did it themselves. Works for me.

Jav worker count: 0 in 1.

Beorn
24-01-2007, 15:39
[crazyeye][coool][evil][col]
Breaking news !
Leave or declare threat from Ze Germans in my PM box. That's gotta hurt. Soul (I assume) and I (I know) are strong vs him and have military forces close-by. His capital has a reg vet warrior for defence. Best joke ever.

Beorn
28-01-2007, 23:44
The Ampersand does not negociate with terrorists.

Neither does Jav.

http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/Beorn/2007128224414_Bauer.jpg
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Beorn
30-01-2007, 18:42
Turn 47: strong military vs everyone, philo in 7 turns, Jav has got 2 slaves from this barb outbreak. More javs coming up. My 2nd and 3rd cities will be 4 or 5 turn factories after I get republic, my capital will be a 9 turn 2 jav + settler pump until I get iron or horses hooked up. 3rd city might end up making workers. 4th will be positionned to pre-build FP, to my E-NE.

Soul clocked in late - he was the one supposed to get philo - so he offered IW in addition to the original deal. I somewhat suspect that he'll get it from praetorian, which is fine by me - I would have gone with the original treaty (His math+philo for my Writing+CoL, granting us both republic) without him putting IW on top of it. I hope bella will go for HBR so we can start putting up a long term military up.

Beorn
17-02-2007, 06:30
This is the eve of turn 60. Barbs have risen up in the North and Java The Hutt is taking care of them from up top the mountain. Odds are he'll survive, but still, reinforcements are being built and sent.

Techs: The Republic, BW, Mas, CB, WC. Awaiting IW from Soul, will probably trade for the wheel off Bella. Started on currency for personnal use.

Tar front: Mithanga the anglo still has a lead on me. I am picking back up on him now, I guess he went all out settlers in the beginning. My triple granary gambit will start paying off in about 20 turns when I have 6 or 7 more cities. For now it's all him on top and it diverts attention from me.

SW front: All deals have been fair and good so far. We both are republics (he might be a turn short of his anarchy at this point) and we've been helping each other with barbs. He has a fwe scouts in the North so he knows the terrain as well as I do. A slave barb is roading the way down to him so that I can sell him silks.

Praetorian front: I contacted Mr german and offered him an intel trade of coastal mapping. First thing off he does right off the bath is he lies to me. I told him that there was a mini archipelago down the SW of Soul's and I know for a fact that whatever he did, he could not have had the time to send a boat there without my spotting it on its way. So if he has any boat, it wouldn't even know what side the coast was from the Jiver.
In short, he might not know it, but he declared war.

Noteworthy: Praetorian has regular units all around and his 3rd city came a couple of turns earlier than SW's 3rd, whereas SW has had population and probably an actual settler eaten off by barbs.

Local picture:

http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/55503/_3.jpg

Beorn
26-03-2007, 02:16
Been a while + server down = been a long while.

Liar Praetorian has been replaced (after much sucking) by regent player Sercer for Germany.

I bought Germany's middle age tech for a jump into the middle ages when I can give it to him. He has 5 towns at pop 1, I've been trying to coach him by PM into doing better. I'd feel totally sadistic just raping him, he's a good guy, unlike his predecessor.

Deal with SW is HBR/Cons (me) for Lit+MM (him) and that leaves me Polytheism/Monarchy short on the AA tree. I'll get Poly, take whatever I can from Germany and head straight for Cavalries. I'll build up cavalries and invade the other continent I believe - unless something boils up on our side of the ocean.

I have 28% Population to SW's 12 or 14. We are 8, so the theoretical average is 12.5%. I have 3 cities fully capable of pumping settlers in 4 or 5 turns. I'll just have to stop building towns and start dishing out some hurt. Both my FP/silk cities will be making workers for a little while, the rest on military duty on and off with libs and markets when they can. One city has been founded on a FP pre-build, now size 2 and counting.

Here is what I believe are the current territorial agreements + my dotmap. I plan 5 more cities and then all into horses/knights to have buttsecks with the Spanish.

*** picture pending server shizzle ***

Beorn
26-03-2007, 02:33
Edit: Image removed from display because of size.

http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/55503/Soul1.jpg

Beorn
13-04-2007, 05:13
Turn 90 report, 750BC or something like that:

The map situation is roughly the same, I'm filling in the north.

I struck a very generous deal with Germany: I jump them up into the middle ages, in return I get their free tech. I did it half for the tech and half for him, poor soul is a good guy and was in Praetorian's very bleak situation. He was down writing, mathematics and mysticism. Bleak.

Roading to SW is done, I sent him silks ahead of time, hoping to get wines or incense. He has neither, he was thinking of sending me dyes - but i have dyes already. So it'll sweeten up the upcoming tech trade for his freebie.

Still no sign of the other continent, and nothing in sight of the last suicide runner so I plan on making galleys whenever he sends me MM. This will also kick me into MA, but he'll be down polytheism still.

I have 33% of world pop, and I have just now passed Tar-Mithanga for #1 score.

Beorn
13-04-2007, 05:18
Turn 90, 750BC map. I stopped settler production now, will put one up at the odd growth, but for now my libraries are almost all up and it's all military time.

Bella had 44turns to go on Oracle when I established an embassy at her place, I'm hoping she gets another (read USEFUL) wonder before I declare and invade.

http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/55503/_4.jpg

Beorn
10-07-2007, 18:52
Long overdue update, turn 140.

NOBODY EXPECTS THE SPANISH INQUISITION! I got Knights' Templar while the other continent didn't have amthematics and made the most of it through Spanish lands.

http://i169.photobucket.com/albums/u204/CFC_Beorn/5.jpg

Diplomatic rundown:

Greece: little brother, very good terms - so good he leaves his border towns undefended. Big time tech deal with him, I'll pull him to the IA and get 2 IA techs in return. I have a well fortified border with him should he attempt anything.
Germany: little neighbor, impending doom from SW's mace stack
Spain: Poofed out

West continent:

England: Backwards, on warpath vs their AI
Ottoman: Backwards, has the smaller end of the warpath stick because they are farther down and can't profitably expand to the north where the AI's are
Amerikaner: Under siege, we pumped Feudalism into them so they have something to defend themselves with ;)
Russia: Man Cathy is fucked. Hopefully she survives a dozen turns so we can extract an IA freebie out of her.

Techs: I'm pulling SW up for his freebie, after which I'll take a strong lead in techs again. I'm building up my tech farms in the E-NE right now, universities in the core and Coper+Newton in my capital that already has colossus and 20SPT.

My military force is strong vs everyone and I haven't built anything since before I started the war against Spain.

SW and I plan on invading the West with cavalries ASAP, maybe with infantries, maybe with just rifles/muskets. Either way, they'll weaken themselves against america and Russia on wars across the jungle and into unproductive grounds while we build up and gain an irreversible lead.

Beorn
19-08-2007, 06:01
Advancements:

My core is jam-packed with libraries, Capital has Coper+Colossus+river and makes 102 beakers at 20spt... The North is ripe for science farming, it just needs some worker turns now. It's massing workers and growing slower as is. Military Tradition is a monopoly.

I made a deal with the german: lift to the IA + horses indefinitely for his IA tech and a golden age trigger. I offered him to pay for saltpeter if Soul stops shipping it in before we go to war (read: and I capture 2-3 of his sources).

Both Soul and I are now in the IA with Steam Power and Coal. Our aforementionned deal will end when he sends Industrialism and I send Mil Trad back. I wanted to be very gentlemanly with him since we've been fair and square all game, plus he just lost his g/f. So I offered him a non-negociable, final 20 turns of peace. War is in the air.

I'll start crunching military units next turn after he's received the notice. He has been building up to counter the German and I have just been using my free crusaders to stay ahead in military might. I have been strong against every nation around for so long that no one really knows my military power at all. Soon it'll be for real because I have an overwhelming cavalry force on a low-military world.

http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/Beorn/200781944911_Soul2.jpg
58.93 KB

I've been too nice so far this turn, time to be really destructive: I lifted Catherine of Russia to the IA and JOY, she gets NATIONALISM. This will put a serious dent in the Western continent's attempts at domination. This feels so so so so wrong. I love it.

So this game is in the bag. Soul will die in 20, next is Germany (can't afford that kind of liability when going off-shore) and I expect ottomans and englishs to just resign.

Beorn
03-09-2007, 16:06
quote:Originally posted by Tribute on CFC
Wow!!! Very interesting. Though one thing bothers me (in most games involving diplomacy too). The veterans never seem to get attacked early on. Then they build up steam and are undefeatable.... Of course, taking over all of Spain helped too. ;)

Why can't people be annoying and spark early golden ages for their enemies? Oh, you choose Sumeria? I waste 10 shields to waste a future 300 shields and 300 commerce of yours. (And if I beat your Enkidu, I raze the town you were defending.) Though I think that does warrant a dogpile if the victim is aggravated sufficiently. I can think of some very interesting scenarios at this point.

The early GA trigger did happen for SW: in one of his skirmishes with Germany, he had a warrior impale himself on a hoplite IIRC. The reason we didn't go to war early could be found in the first part of the spoiler: http://civ3duelzone.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=4004

We struck up a tech deal really early and made it profitable for the both of us. I took over Spain and on his side, Germany wasn't much of a threat whatsoever - Praetorian, well, sucked. He expanded all he wanted and so did I.

The major difference between 1v1 and Free For All (FFA) is that in 1v1 you watch your one opponent very closely for the first occasion to backstab, whereas in FFA you try to become very big with one or two other civs and then dispatch of the lesser ones. This way it becomes a 1 in 2 or 3 chance instead of one in 5 or 6 for you to win.

Beorn
25-09-2007, 16:38
January 1st, 560 AD. 90 years before the Greek ultimatum comes around from words into actions.

It seems that everyone but the Mayans know of nationalistic warfare measures. This tickles General Hardy more and more. Since he got appointed as commander in chief, General Hardy has had much influence, pointing out how ineffective our partnership with the Funky one got and how late on schedule they made us be. He did have a very valid point, considering we've been waiting for an exchange of industrialism for over 10 turns now. Military tradition is still a monopoly tech for the Ampersand, so all is well and we yet have no treachery to worry about.

A quick snapshot of the current world position shows the Ampersand still in its legendary gold and shield lead, especially during golden age. It is estimated we outproduce the funky one by a factor of two to three.

http://i169.photobucket.com/albums/u204/CFC_Beorn/8.jpg

http://i169.photobucket.com/albums/u204/CFC_Beorn/7.jpg

Not showing are HG (AI-Merika), SoZ (Mithanga the english) and GLH (Ottoman Blaze Native).

At the annual meeting, it is discussed labor force arrangements and how good was our theory about the origins of life. The first conclusion is that Spain was an anomaly of history, the second being that Germany managed itself out of the same situation by strokes of inventiveness and the third that every race alike makes for good labor force. The scientists are dispatched back to their universities to get some sort of worthwhile conclusion out of it, with an ultimatum due 60 years later.

Actions decided upon were to bribe America into selling us Nationalism. Their diplomat did not like the maneuver however and it was also decided we could take action against it. We thought we deserved that nationalistic pride ourselves and stood our ground.

In an outburst of fury, General Hardy ordered his snipers to shoot down the upset diplomat. What he was really thinking of, though, was not about a war with Amerika.

http://i169.photobucket.com/albums/u204/CFC_Beorn/9.jpg

Regarding our ultimatum with the Funky, General Hardy pointed out we needed to stock up a couple more infantry units and a lot more of artilleries. His ancestor, Commander Jaguar Paw, made heavy use of primitive artillery when he once defeated the lesser Spanish tribes. He argues that old 70mm cannons can be mounted on tripods with capacity to withstand larger caliber 155mm shells. He also points out that our research funds could be diverted into training pikemen to use the same 7.62 rifles the cavalry units wield, but Science Minister Copernicus adds that foot troops have already started using heavier trench rifles using larger 7.92mm rounds, more difficult to weild but easier to reload and more accurate in tactical situations. It is decided that over half of the pikemen would be updated, the rest would go to protect our resource colonies by rapidly reporting suspicious activity to more mobile troops.

http://i169.photobucket.com/albums/u204/CFC_Beorn/10.jpg

General Hardy unveils the attack plans on the funky nation, bragging that with 2 handfuls of workers, he predicts an overnight invasion deep into Funky territory. With enough entrenched troops to cover workforce and artillery units, there would be no reason for our cavalries to be stopped. We would strike at the highly populated sites first, preventing them from conscripting too many men after D-Day makes them understand they need a large re-haul of troops.

In detail, he laid out the sites where we would need to go through to make the most out of our mounties (red), the railwork to be laid down (gray) and the artillery caches we would need to install (purple).

http://i169.photobucket.com/albums/u204/CFC_Beorn/11.jpg

His enthusiasm is met with skepticism in the room but the plan is approved, with a cautionary warning. There also are plans to cut off their supplies of different goods, such as Saltpeter. We expect little resistance from the colonies.

http://i169.photobucket.com/albums/u204/CFC_Beorn/12.jpg

Meeting is adjourned, next session will be called when more infrastructure is done and we start focusing on war efforts. To be discussed are the repatriation of Spanish citizens to different locations where demographic imbalance calls for the need of surplus women, and the conclusions of the origins of species.

Rik Meleet
25-09-2007, 18:12
Noether ring ???
Wow - that brings back memories....

Beorn
25-09-2007, 19:18
Yeah, the concept name was "Mind, Body & Soul", with Soul_Warrior being Soul ... I chose the Ampersand (&). So my adjective was 'additive' and the easiest way to plug that was with algebraic structures.

Beorn
22-10-2007, 06:37
General Hardy was rather content with the dam. He was quite pleased with the new Theory that we come from apes. He had no quarrel with the workshop now that it was retrofitting replaceable rifle parts onto the new troops' gear. The General was receiving good news from the pirate ships he had dispatched, despite growing activity from England's promising navy.

But General Hardy was yet unable to rest.

The time finally came, however, when General Hardy got some hearty sleep. Nothing like the wear of a good day's artillery fire and cavalry pounding to make one sleep like a baby. Like Grizzly like General, or so goes the saying: the military op took form and after a blitzkrieg campaign against the Funky one, nights were peaceful and sound again.

http://i169.photobucket.com/albums/u204/CFC_Beorn/Soul3.jpg

Scouting cavalries reported that the capital was resilient, despite being guarded by men with old blackpowder muskets. His Leftenant on the frontline trenches had never even seen blackpowder muskets, save in old plans from the museum archives back in Commutator. Yet they took the toll of our single lost cavalry squad.

Short on artillery support, the General called it a day and dispatched cover units to take over from there. Grecian cannons will be mounted and prolonged to support standard 155mm shells. Those for which we did not have the iron on hand in our capital were sent straight into the belly of our antagonists, crouching like a tiger ready to leap.

Operation Groovy Grizzly was thus cut short from the original outline. Next year, the luck might turn in our favor [dunno]

Either way, wagers are now being taken: will Soul sell every asset of his to the Germans? To the Ottomans? Will he last by himself - and how long ... 2, 3 turns?

In the Observatory, talks begin of how to beat the english at their own game of naval supremacy. It is said we would need strong iron alloys and a power source more malleable than steam. But this is still crazy talk at this point...

Beorn
27-10-2007, 00:16
I've been busy as hell this week so the spoiler will suck.

General Hardy is disappointed that he didn't get to input his own version of the facts and he threatened to stage a coup.

We do not think he will, as his bloodthirst was satiated.

630AD:
http://i169.photobucket.com/albums/u204/CFC_Beorn/Soul4.jpg
640AD:
http://i169.photobucket.com/albums/u204/CFC_Beorn/Soul5.jpg
650AD:
http://i169.photobucket.com/albums/u204/CFC_Beorn/Soul6.jpg
660AD:
http://i169.photobucket.com/albums/u204/CFC_Beorn/Soul7.jpg

Battle logs can be found in the turn tracker thread at CFC: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=193794&page=78

Beorn
30-10-2007, 03:25
[luke2] Game over, global capitulation in 680 AD.

Props to Soul, Blaze, Mithanga, Grey and sercer - you all rock [music]

Looking forward to the unofficial rematch in Darwin's island, as well as (maybe very very soon?) the new game coming...

mauer
30-10-2007, 03:33
great spoiler Beorn, wish I could get back into Civ3. The graphics seem to throw me off a bit more than anything now. Great win though. Remember the scores?

Beorn
31-10-2007, 03:50
Thanks Mauer, I was really starting to wonder whether anyone reads this - despite the 400 views, many are probably just reflex openings from the active topic list. People need to play Civ3 more [aargh]

To get Firaxis scores, I'd have to eat through Abe Lincoln and that's just not going to happen, the game is over. This was Regent or Monarch, not Emperor nor Deity, so they're hardly comparable to other scores from more "standard" games.

Scores on the last turn for each civ were

B the Mayan: 852
Soul the Greek: 641
Mithanga the English: 524
Lincoln the AI: 416
Blaze Injun the Ottoman: 407
GG/Sercer/Praetorian of Germany: 318
Catherine, Isabella: didn't care to remember, low.

Last turn F11:

http://i169.photobucket.com/albums/u204/CFC_Beorn/Soul8.jpg

And the 3 battle logs:
Entering Soul's Lair (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=6079306&postcount=1542)
Eating Soul (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=6086780&postcount=1547)
Cleaning up Germany (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=6091731&postcount=1552)

Key to those blitzkrieg was
1) Rails. You can't take over entire countries within a turn without rails.
2) Artillery. A redlined Rifleman has very, very grim chances against a veteran infantry (under 20% while fortified in a hill town, river crossing; 6% when in a flat town).
3) Plan. Watching where rivers are, where his defensive stack is, etc, sure helps coordinating things. Had I started Op Groovy Grizzly from the city all the way on the west coast (which I thought would have been better defended than the middle one, being near the other continent and farther away from reinforcements) I could have had his capital and nearly everything inland on the first turn.
4) Not being counter-attacked helps.
5) Using infantries and Guerillas. When you catch a break, are short on artillery and need to cover up, you send what leftover infantries and guerillas to the front door of the nearby cities, poised to strike after the next artillery wave. They have 6 attack too, so you save on fast movers.

BCLG100
31-10-2007, 04:13
I was reading too beorn, well played.

Beorn
31-10-2007, 04:52
Well thanks, I'm starting to blush now ...

TBH I'm not sure I get the whole lurking idea on a (let's face it) spamful forum. I'd expect people asking questions, giving opinions and whatnot. I don't lurk the CIV games too often but when I do I can't just stay passive, not here. Oh wait, no one plays Civ3 anymore ;)

That said, if anyone ever wants a C3C/PTW 1v1, AI's (deity light) or not, 2 islands or 1 pangea, Maps and contacts moved to any point in time, I'm up for a challenge [fdevil]

mauer
31-10-2007, 04:56
Well, when I played C3C it wasn't on Deity. Mostly, I won't comment if I can't add any insight or whatnot to the players situation. Well, mostly even if I do comment it doesn't add any insight or whatnot to the players situation. I try to stay away from Pitboss spoilers as much as possible also. That is, after the last little brew ha ha we had go on about it.

BCLG100
31-10-2007, 14:14
quote:Originally posted by Beorn

Well thanks, I'm starting to blush now ...

TBH I'm not sure I get the whole lurking idea on a (let's face it) spamful forum. I'd expect people asking questions, giving opinions and whatnot. I don't lurk the CIV games too often but when I do I can't just stay passive, not here. Oh wait, no one plays Civ3 anymore ;)

That said, if anyone ever wants a C3C/PTW 1v1, AI's (deity light) or not, 2 islands or 1 pangea, Maps and contacts moved to any point in time, I'm up for a challenge [fdevil]


I can't remember enough about c3c to comment, i do comment on civ4 spoilers so start playing a real game and i'll start commenting ;)

Beorn
31-10-2007, 14:22
I'm just starting to beat Emperor, though my post-gunpowder age CIV experience is nil and ziltch, or just about. So you won't see a whole lot of me on CIV just yet. However, now that the BUG mod gives me tech research input and I don't get blindly swamped in the tech race anymore, I might just get a liking for it.

BCLG100
31-10-2007, 18:20
basic jist is, alphabet, philosophy, astronomy etc

pick techs the AI doesnt normally go for immediatly then trade around.

mauer
31-10-2007, 20:15
quote:Originally posted by Beorn

I'm just starting to beat Emperor, though my post-gunpowder age CIV experience is nil and ziltch, or just about. So you won't see a whole lot of me on CIV just yet. However, now that the BUG mod gives me tech research input and I don't get blindly swamped in the tech race anymore, I might just get a liking for it.

Emperor? Dang, I'm still playing noble/prince.

Beorn
31-10-2007, 22:29
quote:Originally posted by BCLG100

pick techs the AI doesnt normally go for immediatly then trade around.


Thanks! I know how it works, I just never cared to find out which were the techs.

Isn't there a limit number of techs you can trade in a game though? I'm a MIL/SCI at heart so I self research a lot but I heard bad things about the WFYABTA limit (or an acronym of whatever he says).

And ... I'll keep asking questions back in my C4 noob thread.

BCLG100
16-11-2007, 15:19
WTf does wfyabta mean???

anywhoo, dunno sort of depends what level your on to just how far ahead you can get in tech before they stop trading with you.

Beorn
16-11-2007, 15:51
WFYABTA is the we fear you are beginning too advanced deal, which is the point where they stop trading, which in turn depends greatly on a single constant: the amount of techs you acquired through trade (adjusted with attitude and tradesmanship).