Had another go at Civ IV

[ProPain]

Went on holiday for a week, packed a more than decent laptop and Civ4 just to give it another go.

First game : Prince level, continents, standard size
After doing ok initially I got hopelesly behind. Apart from sucky civ4 skills I blame the map. Was on little continent alone, discover Romans on a big island next to it. By the time I made contact with the other civs I was still banging rocks together for fire and they were building riflemen. I had immense trouble getting my finances going only went up in the endgame. 75 turns before the end Cyrus launched his spaceship and I was building cavs or something. Played the remaining 75 turns and managed to get even in tech (that is get all techs there were) even beating the Romans to the last tech by one tech. Ended up first in score after those 75 turns were done, benefits of having a continent for yourself

second game : Prince level, continents, standard size
Doing quite ok techwise untill my best friend showed up at my border with some immense SoD's and attacked out of the blue.
Lesson learned: Having civs on friendly terms doesnt compensate for being weak


third game : Prince level, continents, standard size
started, got GPT troubles again, bought Warlords as the lack of internet prevented me to download the 1.61 patch which I needed to get the game to perform a bit better speedwise.

Warlords
Took me quite a while to notice the difference between the vanilla and warlords version. Looks like something that a decent modder would have come up with after a weekend. But then I discover the real benefit of warlords: revised civilopedia! Apparently they found out the icon driven civpedia in vanilla was a disaster.

Conclusion: € 25,- for better civpedia and 1.61 patch, what a waste of money [lol]

third game, 2nd try : Prince level, continents, standard size
Did some more aggresive expansion, build more hamlets, pruned Roosevelt in an early war. Still got a little behind in techs in the late ancient era, again lack of GPT. Caught up and build up my civ. Launched my spaceship in 1982 and claimed vitory.

overall conclusion
I had more fun playing than a year ago when I bought it, will give it a go some more for sure. Still wondering why I have troubly keeping up commerce wise after the initial fase. Can use tips on that :) Also I feel the game favors more peacefull routes as going to war is a cumbersome ordeal with the reduced movement.

[akots]

Actually, the game is quite difficult to beat and even at Prince level there is no easy win if not going for military or cultural route. Military games tend to be easier on low difficulty levels. Research first to macemen and may be cats, build a few (the more the merrier), expand capturing enemy cities then research to cavalry and go and kill everyone. Slavery civic is a great help since you can pop-rush a lot of stuff without doing much damage to growth

Game opening is quite critical and sometimes is very difficult especially on higher levels on normal speed. And it seems there is a sort of universal solution for money problems: first, go kill some neighbor and get some cash for razing his cities or also spam cottages. There is no really universal strategy however and it all depends on map type. Especially the opening moves. Getting Civil Service from Oracle might be critical to get early advantage and farming great people (caste system civic) is also important very early in the game.

But this is not a game for casual play, sometimes it requires a lot of effort to make the ends meet. Civ3 was an easier game overall and more enjoyable imho.

[Matrix]

I guess you're expanding too fast, ProPain. I already try and keep my science ratio on or around 50%. My rule of thumb is not to build cities when the science rate is below 50%, unless it's important and you're afraid someone else will claim that piece of land. I sometimes even have a settler ready and only settle on the moment I see the AI approaching with his settler. ;)

Oh, and of course learn the use of Courthouses! (And therefore Code of Laws.) Having Currency also makes quite a difference, because of that extra trade route in every city.

Personally I also do have the tendency to emphase to much on production and too little on commerce. I.e.: I should build more cottages. Perhaps you should too?

I do agree Warlords isn't worth much. It's highest value is that you can play with other people who also got Warlords. [tongue] I even select "no vassal states" nowadays, because I really don't see that value in that. It's actually kind of annoying that so many useless small civs stay alive until the end of the game. They only make the game runs slower. (Makes a difference on huge maps!)

[Kingreno]

I tried a few games where I used the "world builder" to add a worker to my first setler in the beginning. If you play Monarch then or emperor on a very good start it's a lot more fun and at least gives options in the early game. Do remember to put of your glasses or squeeze your eyes as the World builder also revelas the entire map whilst in the builder itself.:D

[Shabbaman]

quote:Originally posted by ProPain

started, got GPT troubles again, bought Warlords as the lack of internet prevented me to download the 1.61 patch which I needed to get the game to perform a bit better speedwise.


[lol]

I bet you need to whip and chop more. Chop chop [whipped]

[Kemal]

You're indeed probably overexpanding to explain your problems tech wise later on. Economic management in civ4 is a lot more difficult than it was in civ3, which is why - as akots explained - military vics are way easier to achieve in general.

Also, prince in civ4 is probably about equal to monarch-civ3, monarch in civ4 is more difficult than emperor-civ3 etc. Cottages and keeping a very close eye on your own and enemies diplomatic relations are key to doing well as a builder... these games can we be won all the way up to immortal even on large maps, (deity large is impossible imho on non-rigged maps/settings), but again as akots said, these games are no longer fun.

Don't aim to beat the highest difficulty, instead play the game on the settings you feel offer a decent challenge but still allow you to relax as well, unless you're a hardcore civ-junkie.

[Socrates]

I thought I might as well join this nice party of Civ veterans you got there... ;) Ack, must find something decent to say, now that everyone in the room is watching me...

Err, yes, I have one question : how did the Civpedia in Warlords change exactly, compared to Vanilla 1.61 ?

Also, does the new Warlords patch make this add-on something worth buying ?

Finally, PP, join the PBEM fun ! [goodjob]

[Matrix]

Hm, a PBEM or Pitboss with CDZ veterans... http://www.straland.com/images/smilies/idea.gif

[Socrates]

quote:Originally posted by Matrix

Hm, a PBEM or Pitboss with CDZ veterans... http://www.straland.com/images/smilies/idea.gif

Eh, you like the good, old days, don't you ? [groucho]

[ProPain]

@krys

The civpedia in vanilla C4 is a bunch of icons that are ordered alphabetically and give an icon name when you mouse over it. I think it's very annoying because only experienced players recognise icon before they see the accompanying name. Obviously an experienced player isnt very likely to use the civpedia. The few times I used it I found it very difficult to find what I need quickly. Warlords has the good old simple alphabetical list again.

Patch: the patch I referred to is good old 1.61 patch that you can download for free. I didnt had interneraccess last week so for me buying warlords was the only way to get that patch. So no reason to buy the addon.

PBEM's: I wont be playing one soon as I really dont have the time. Too much work, not enough play. :( Maybe x-mas when I feel like it and I have a bit more free time.

[Darkness]

@PP: Maybe you should try a warmonger game with the Mongolians? That really is fun in the Warlords expansion. You can pretty quickly start pumping out Keshiks with at least 7 experience points, and there is very little that can stop those in the early game. If you then use your Great Generals wisely you can build some serious monster units. I did this too in my latest game and I now have a Knight (upgraded from Keshik) with about 65-70 experience points, and one of my cities builds mounted units that start with 13 exxperience points. Which makes war a very amusing business...

[Socrates]

Hmm, PP, in Vanilla 1.61 my Civpedia is listed in alphabetic order with both the names and the icons, so I wonder what you're talking about. [???] The icon is never alone.

I was speaking about the new Warlords patch, v2.08 IIRC, which introduces A LOT of stuff. I was wondering if it made Warlords worth buying in the end. They implemented some AI tweaks which were developped by a fan (Blake) eg.

PBEMs : You must know it, but it takes so little time ! I'm currently playing 1 PBEM against Darkness, and it takes me 15 minutes per day at most.

[ProPain]

I suppose that was already solved in the patch then. That makes Warlords an even bigger waste of money.

[BCLG100]

pp what about pitboss, thats a guaranteed turn of play a day and can take as little as 2 mins to load play etc

[Shabbaman]

I can't speak for PP obviously, but 2 minutes a day is sometimes simply too much.

[ProPain]

atm I have so much work I cant even spent 2 mins a day. Mostly because a pbem usually absorbs me and has me thinking about it much longer than 2 mins a day.

[Matrix]

The problem is - and my early elimination in the CFC Pitboss game proves that - diplomacy costs a lot of time as well. It's not just playing the game itself...

[Socrates]

Diplomacy ? None of that needed in a 1v1 PBEM or an Always War big PBEM/PitBoss... ;)

[digger760]

You got to play three games in a week!!!! thats more than i have played in the last year. Who were you on holiday with you - yourself??? What were the Wife and Baba doing all this time?

[ProPain]

I was on holiday with my wife and daughter. But 1 year olds tend to go to bed early and Monique's turning early now as well because of her pregnancy.