Spoiler vs. WOA

[killercane]

Settings are emperor, unknown barbs, all the usual stuff, continents accessible at navigation (We agreed on astronomy, and that is what I meant to put but I asked Rik the Mapmaker for navigation for some reason). Maybe I did that to keep Wacken off of me for a while and prolong the game ;).

Anyways here is the start:


http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/killercane/200682583310_woa turn 2.jpg
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[killercane]

I settled on a gold hill; we have 2 settlers to start and 3 workers. Wacken didnt settle on the gold hill, I really dont know why. However, he did go north with his settler and is KILLING me scorewise with more land area and aggressive expansion. I am not doing badly by any means but it a definite cause for concern.

I sent my second settler south to pop the goody hut (got CB). I didnt want to backtrack north and hoped for a food bonus down southeast. There IS one but it is bananas in jungle (ugh), further contributing to my lower score. Im pretty sure he found the northern food resources with his second settler and is putting settlers out like no tomorrow.

Good thing is I am quite ahead scientifically, getting philo, though I took lit which I think was a mistake with my high science gambit I am running. Im not in position to build libraries yet, and i want to cheapen CoL to tempt him to go for republic. My (very) tentative plan is to do all the 4 turn techs I can since I think he is following my research. I dont think I can get republic so far ahead of him that it gives me a huge boost, since I need gold to run deficit research and the 4 turners give me that.

With philo free tech and the free MA tech I hope to get ahead a bit and grab leos for sure. I feel he will bring knights and whatnot as quickly as possible. Pyramids would be nice to have, for GA purposes and the boost, but I dont know which is more beneficial here. I am resigned to the fact I cant have both and a huge military that I plan on.

[killercane]

I'm really thinking Pyramids and MoM for a golden age will be ideal; it denies him an easy GA, since he would need to research monarchy for Hanging Gardens, and the Pyramids are always great. I will have to force myself to build tons of knights to protect myself however.

[Rik Meleet]

got a screenshot of the current map ?
I (and I assume other lurkers) would like to see how your cities are doing / hoe they are positioned / what they are building etc).

[killercane]

I will put some on here later tonight when I open the game up. As of turn 45, I have 7 cities and 10 workers iirc, I figure I have more workers than he who shall not be named, but his rapid growth is quite scary.

I think I have come up with a pretty solid plan, subject to change: do pyramids/MoM, initiate golden age and deny him his, let him know Im not going for Leos, beeline to navigation and pick up chivalry, unload a ton of knights on him. I may send a preinvasion force of suicide defenders (cheap enkidus and a couple pikes) to bother with his CXC science farm towns before I send in the main force. I figure this will allow me to gauge whether he intends on a direct MW-Cav upgrade via Leos, or will build at least some knights. I figure on being 3 techs ahead of him at least with GA, free techs, and libraries. I dont expect him to build any libraries or many pikes/muskets, and I should be able to muster up a pretty good force to whack what I hope will be 40-50 Mounted Warriors before he can get cavalry.

This is a lot of guessing so far, if plans fail I can repel an invasion I think, and just continue to outresearch him. Pyramids will be very important to catch up on his fast growth.

Techwise I will get mysticism and masonry in the next 8 turns, and I hope to pop two or three techs from the bountiful huts on the map. Im going to try to configure city planning to pop huts (with settlers) on the turn after I research a tech to increase the science lead.

[killercane]

It is turn 51. I have 9 cities plus 3 settlers out. Science gambit is going well, as I am 1 turn from Mysticism, and Republic will take 10 turns from there.

Wacken started a Pyramids build 5 turns ago, and added in 2 workers to take Allegheny to size 7. I believe that city has a granary. If I assume he averages 10 shields in that city he will get the "rids at turn 86. It will be a tremendous coup if I can get it before him. The only question is how far can I push it by going into Republic anarchy; my calculations give me turn 84 as possible finish date if I add in workers. This is all predicated on him not prebuilding with a temple or something and having a 60 shield headstart; but he does not know I am building Pyramids. However I can keep the build going with the Palace and get Leos, so no big worry I dont think.

Heres the current situation:


http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/killercane/200682824530_turn 51.jpg
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[killercane]

At my current pace I will hit the MAs at about turn 88, which would be techs in less than 5 turns apiece. If I can average a tech every 6-7 turns (with GA) I can be ready to invade by turn 140 for sure. My (optimistic) projections are 3 cities on 2 turn horses for 20 turns from turns 100-120, plus maybe 10 from other cities will give me 40 horses. But the question is where will I get the 5K gold to upgrade them? Perhaps Leos is the better choice here, but I will have to research monarchy (and build HG) and get engineering, so that would push the plan back to turn 150 or so.

[killercane]

Time for an update. We are on turn 73 and I am in Republic now. I got a 5 turn anarchy, and Wacken has not researched Republic as of now, so I think I have a ten turn headstart. I popped poly, hbr, and math from huts to increase my tech lead. I will enter the Middle Ages at turn 81, which is a blazing pace imo. Im sure Wacken is kicking himself for not getting philo, he is pissed that I got poly so I think the pressure is on him now.

Course, he is still killing me in score and will likely get the Pyramids if he doesnt get a long anarchy. It will be interesting to see how this turns out. Here is a screenshot of the empire, and more importantly the science output.

http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/killercane/200683114120_turn 73.jpg
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[killercane]

Forgot to attach the F1 screen:


http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/killercane/200683114238_t 73 science.jpg
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[killercane]

Going ahead and building MoM was my undoing, as I lost by over a 100 shields to Leos. Stupid stupid on my part. As the game goes on, Pyramids and Leos will just continue to allow him to outbuild me. Therefore, I have built nothing but units, horses and pikes, in a desperate attempt to land on him before he gets anything that can kill me quick. My military is strong, so we will see how far it gets me. Is anybody reading this drivel?

[Whomp]

I'm here 'Cane.

[Rik Meleet]

I'm reading it, of course.

[bed_head7]

Also present.

[BCLG100]

what does MoM stand for?

[Rik Meleet]

Mausolleum of Halicarnassus, build for king Mausollos.

[BCLG100]

thats what i thought, this may sound stupid but just wtf did you build that for???? as in you have actually have it built?

[killercane]

MoM is the Mausoleum of Mausolos which satisifies the scientific component for Golden Age. It is 200 shields as opposed to 400 or whatever for the Great Library or the late Newtons Uni. He had some lookout caravels out, so I only landed 2 horses and a pike in his ICS land. The result was quite good as he destroyed a bunch of cities, 6 or so. He still doesnt know I have a shitload of horses and pikes in the deep ocean off his coast (I cant find a good landing spot that will get me to his core quickly). He is pissed and annoyed though since for the first time he is considering he might lose. He only noticed the last ten turns that I poured everything into troops. My military is still strong compared to him.

Here is from our convo:

9/4/2006 12:35:26 AM Arjen casey j i see great dangers for me
9/4/2006 12:35:32 AM Arjen casey j but also some small light
9/4/2006 12:36:12 AM Arjen casey j for now
9/4/2006 12:36:18 AM Arjen casey j you have hurt me pretty bad already
9/4/2006 12:39:52 AM casey j Arjen two cities isnt much w/ pyramids
9/4/2006 12:40:23 AM Arjen casey j 2?
9/4/2006 12:40:36 AM Arjen casey j unfortunately its a few more
9/4/2006 12:42:23 AM casey j Arjen yeah i just noticed that
9/4/2006 12:45:52 AM Arjen casey j damn this game
9/4/2006 12:46:03 AM Arjen casey j i'm a very bad loser you know :)

Since he is not so happy Im thinking I just need to land these guys and go and see what happens, form a shipchain and just keep pouring em in. I need to figure out how many Mounties he must have for me to still be strong compared to him. His golden age has been over for a couple turns now. Maybe my acting like I didnt have a plan post Leos actually worked after all ;). Ill put up a pic later if i get around to it.

[killercane]

Next turn is in and his military is now average compared to mine so he has spent a lot of his gold on troops obviously. He had a lot saved up from following my research. Im moving into range now so I hope he cant block all my landing spots. I have a spot still open on the bay that I dont think he will cover so I can land my settler and everyone there as a backup if I cant get into his interior lands.
Im glad I have some readers ;). Hopefully I can at least destroy some more cities before he can eradicate my forces. I am following him in research now since I grabbed Chivalry, Navigation, and Monarchy. I feel I can build enough cavs to hold him off until industrial and make it a game if he musters enough to destroy my forces and make a landing on me. What to do with War weariness will be another question depending on the next few turns.


http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/killercane/200694224015_wackens territory 150 bc.jpg
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http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/killercane/200694224051_my troops.jpg
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[Rik Meleet]

Quiet a force. Keep us updated on their progress.

[killercane]

The forces were F*ing slaughtered on the beach. He had sighted the ships and had put a poker face on. With his army as average to mine I considered turning back but that is for pansies. Now I have level 4 war weariness, ten knights, and about 20 ships vs. 50 mounted warriors and a couple of ships. I am going to destroy every naval vessel I can of his. I considered resigning but after debating, I can reach nationalism and then commie and revamp the army assuming I survive; naval battle should allow me to survive for a bit. Wacken allegedly has no gold to upgrade with, and he is researching rapidly towards MT. I should have a bit better force to attack his landing party at that time.

[BCLG100]

any chance of an update cane?

[killercane]

Yeah we are done. He landed 40 or so muskets and 50 cavs. 55 Knights and MDI couldnt take them down after losing all those units on the beach. 'Twas a good game. I still think that fast science was key, but Wacken anticipated my moves well and grabbed both crucial wonders due to mistakes on my part.

Grabbing Pyramids and not having to do Monarchy for HG and golden age would have allowed me to set foot in his core at turn 115 with the 45 or so units that later got slaughtered. He only had 22 mounties at that time (+6000 gold); sending the ships off my other coast would have got me there a turn sooner and would have been very effective and could have won the game. Mistakes, mistakes... Wacken played a great game and did well to capitalize on those mistakes and kick my ass.

[Whomp]

Man. He is good 'Cane. I think you'll find it was in typical Wacken style. What's next for you two?

[WackenOpenAir]

Good game !

[BCLG100]

was a very interesting read the both of you :)

good game's