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Swingue
11-07-2006, 00:30
Well i decided to try training with 3 trainers.
Two trainers train climbing (my best cyclists are climbers) and one trainer is training sprinting.

Now when I look at my team, all have increased in climbing and none have increased in sprinting.

That is strange..
how does this work?

Tubby Rower
11-07-2006, 00:31
you have to go and select a trainer for each rider. the more riders that a trainer trains the less effect per rider that he has.

Mistfit
11-07-2006, 00:40
I posed the same question over at the CC forum... I think I was answered :D

http://forum.ctmanager.com/forums/showthread.php?t=222

ProPain
11-07-2006, 00:53
The arrows now indicate the change from base rider value (when he was 'born'). This is counterintuitive and will be changed to indicate the change relative to the former training event. This is on the list for this week as it's a rather small adjustment.

Swingue
11-07-2006, 19:05
quote:Originally posted by ProPain

The arrows now indicate the change from base rider value (when he was 'born'). This is counterintuitive and will be changed to indicate the change relative to the former training event. This is on the list for this week as it's a rather small adjustment.




ah vandaar
I guess this is the problem i saw

Mistfit
14-07-2006, 15:55
I posed this question in the CC Forum:
quote:What is the difference in training for Dom - Lead - Capt?
and then followed up with:
quote:if I train 2 types of people (1 climber - 1 sprinter) these guys will BOTH be leaders in the races they are in... can I list them both as leaders?

This was the answer I received:
quote:The leader/captain/domest. division in training is to allow you a little more differentiation in received training. So you;ll have to choose.

This will only effect the amount of training a rider receives and wont affect his performance in the race whatsoever. ( just to be clear)

So reading all of this does it make sense to list your good youth riders as captains and leaders even if they are not leaders and captains yet?

Anyone know if age of the rider effects the amount of training received like at HT?

Tubby Rower
14-07-2006, 16:15
I saw a thread that stated that there are no age effects yet. it's on "the list"

I read that last quote of Mistfit's as everyone should be listed as a leader or captain. Although currently none of mine are. I'm still missing my scout :(

Shabbaman
14-07-2006, 17:21
No, that last quote means that if you have 1 coach train a leader and a domestique, then the domestique will receive next to no training.

Tubby Rower
21-08-2006, 15:58
I just had a rider pop to 7 wheels :D That light green is encouraging. The problem is that I don't think that I'm using him properly as he doesn't win many races in which I put him as the head dude.

Kingreno
21-08-2006, 16:35
My 7 wheel climber only does well in mass sprints.

Swingue
21-08-2006, 17:20
I just have my first rider pop to 8 wheels, a climber
he does win now and then but i expect more from him

Tubby Rower
21-08-2006, 17:48
I found that time will hurt a climber on a bunch of courses... So I took my best climber and started training time. He's now @ 7 wheels on time and 4 on climb. His eschelon still sucks, but I'll get his climb ~ equal with his time then train him on eschelon.

I honestly have no clue as to what I'm doing. [:p]

Aggie
22-08-2006, 00:10
My 8 wheel sprinter's best result is nr 15 in a mass sprint..... Normally he simply ends last in a group.

Rik Meleet
22-08-2006, 11:13
Aggie: does he suck at Experience or Echelon ?

Shabbaman
22-08-2006, 11:19
quote:Originally posted by Tubby Rower

So I took my best climber and started training time. He's now @ 7 wheels on time and 4 on climb.


I have been training 2 guys on time for quite some time, I haven't seen any progress.

Kingreno
22-08-2006, 11:43
time takes time

Tubby Rower
22-08-2006, 13:32
@ [shabba], how many riders are you training with that trainer. I have 3 on each of my trainers.

Shabbaman
22-08-2006, 13:42
2 on time, 2 on climbing and 2 on sprint.

Tubby Rower
22-08-2006, 13:53
The only other thing that I can think of is that this particular guy is 16 yo. I'm not sure if they've implemented age-related degredation of training effectiveness or not.

Shabbaman
22-08-2006, 14:03
Nope, from the top of my head 22 and 24 years old. How long does time trial training take?

Tubby Rower
22-08-2006, 14:16
I'm not sure as I haven't been analyzing it too much, but it seems to me that the last pop was around 2 weeks ago

Shabbaman
22-08-2006, 14:29
But that guy increased 1 wheel or 2 wheels total? If it takes 6 weeks, for instance, then it'd take 12+something for 2 riders to increase 1 wheel. If your guy was more than halfway to his next wheel, then he's just lucky.

For instance, let's assume that climbing training trains both ascending as descending for the same amount. That'd make sense, right? I had a guy that increased to 6 wheels ages ago, something like 8 weeks. But he's still stuck on 5 wheels descend. My guess is that he was high in climbing, but low in descend.

Tubby Rower
22-08-2006, 14:48
I believe that he has increased ~ 3-4 wheels total in time. He had 5 wheels in climb but has since dropped to 4 I believe. I switched him back over to climbing training after I posted his status here to get a good climber/time guy.

I have 3 trainers with 3 riders for each. He is one of 2 that are under 20. I'm going to go out and buy a bunch of young riders and see if I can set up a training regime....


On another note, Has anyone heard of when they'll have searchable fields on the transfer list. It's ber cumbersome to click on 50 riders to see what their stats are.

Shabbaman
22-08-2006, 15:23
3! to! 4! wheels! in! total! w!t!f! I've only seen 3 riders increase 3 wheels, combined, 2 on climbing and 1 on sprint. That's balanced by 2 riders losing 1 wheel on sprint each. The first few weeks I trained more riders, but I've been training a small group for quite some time now. The sprint coach trained something else: one of my climbers was training late escape until then. I don't think that had any effect at all. Bah. I wasn't paying attention to this game for weeks (since they announced that they were going to update the race engine (which should've been done last week), but this makes it even worse.
BTW, training youngsters isn't more effective yet, iirc. I asked that some time ago.

About the transfer market: I think they should change it to how the youth transfer screen works.

Tubby Rower
22-08-2006, 15:51
I could be mistaken.. I have been known to make stuff up in my head (completely unknowingly) and treat them as fact. It drives my wife nuts as I'm completely convinced that a particular piece of information is fact when in fact it is something that I dreamed of one night and my mind has made it real.


Here is that guy. I "know" that he didn't have 5 wheels so I'm pretty sure that he's one of the guys that was on the Youth Screen at the beginning when the youngsters had great stats and were young. If he had only 4 wheels then he has gained 3. But I have had him listed in my comments that he is a great climber so I think that his climb was higher than the time. So if that's the case, he only had 3 wheels in time and therefore has risen 4 wheels.
http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/Tubby Rower/2006822144753_Image2.jpg
30.45KB

Maybe the age thing is implemented and PP has forgotten to tell us.

Shabbaman
22-08-2006, 16:05
quote:Originally posted by Tubby Rower

I could be mistaken.. I have been known to make stuff up in my head (completely unknowingly) and treat them as fact.

Sounds familiar.

quote:Originally posted by Tubby Rower
Maybe the age thing is implemented and PP has forgotten to tell us.


[punch]

Rik Meleet
22-08-2006, 20:10
I didn't even realise a rider could get higher than 5 ....

ProPain
23-08-2006, 14:11
Age is not related to training speed atm. Shabba if you provide me with rider details we can check f something is wrong.

As I told several of you before, atm the engine favors all-round riders. So your top sprinter doing crappy is probably because he's less balanced overall than his competitors. And yes, this is not an intuitive nor realistic modelling of reality so we're busy changing that.

We've being working with a new engine now but we keep encountering some bugs that crash the race. These obviously have to be removed before we can work with this engine. Personally I wish this all would move faster as well but we're really working hard on this.

Tubby Rower
23-08-2006, 14:49
no sweat PP.. just remember to keep us informed of progress.

Shabbaman
23-08-2006, 16:39
Hm. Either a lot of my riders gained a lot of wheels on things I wasn't even training, or I've just found the biggest bug of them all: there's a difference between the wheels shown in the rider screen and the wheels shown in the rider popup.

I'm making a thread in the CT forum about it.

Tubby Rower
23-08-2006, 17:01
I have that issue with some of my riders too.

Socrates
24-08-2006, 01:52
I have this problem as well.

I joined the game 2 days ago ! :D Now there's something I really don't understand, and I'd be grateful to the dude who could sum up how training works in this game. I'm confused with the trained trait and the trained order (?), and if we train for the next race or what our riders did during the previous race ( la Hattrick), etc...

socralynnek
24-08-2006, 01:57
AFAIK races and training are completely independent.

The order (leader etc.) choses if the trainee gets a little more of the share (if you train 2 riders with one coach both get about half (actually a little less) of what they'd get if trained alone by that coach, if one being leader other domestique, the leader gets a little more, the domestique a little less)

Hope I understood correctly.

Socrates
24-08-2006, 17:04
Mkay.

I have one question about the training system. Suppose you want to train 2 riders on climb and you have only 1 coach (and will stay with 1 only). An easy way to do it is to train both riders at the same time, so that each one of them gets a little less than half a unit of training per day (BTW, does training happen every night, 7/7 ?). Let's say that each gets 0.45 unit per day (ie. a little less than 0.5, right ?). After 2 training updates, each rider gets 0.9 unit. Now, let's only train RiderA on the 1st night and RiderB on the 2nd night : each gets 1 unit after 2 updates. My question : apart from very short-term considerations (like : I want to pop 1 level for 2 riders before next race or so as to sell them tomorrow because I'm short on money), isn't training only 1 rider per coach the most efficient way to do ? There is probably something I'm missing there. [hmm]

Kingreno
24-08-2006, 17:08
That rider could get injurred (not yet implemented) or worse (doping? death?). So you spread risk.

Tubby Rower
24-08-2006, 17:17
there's also the age thing that will get implemented eventually. The older they are the slower they'll train. So there will be a trade off between training one rider at a time to get maximum benefit and training multiple riders before they get too old.

Robboo
24-08-2006, 17:19
The age thing should start some of us who know this to sell older riders or stop there training if they are winning races for us.

Socrates
24-08-2006, 17:49
@ Kingreno : Not implemented (yet ?). Of course I'll change my mind when it is.

@ Tubby : Yeah, the age will be implemented, but I can't see how this negates my example. I'm thinking switching trainees every day (if I have to train 2 riders with 1 coach) to get 1 full unit of training per day for the team. Since riders age every 13 weeks = 91 days, it doesn't mess it (scales are different). I'm just considering a 2-day cycle. If I want to train 7 riders per coach (quite a lot), that's only a weekly cycle to consider, much less than 13 weeks. Of course the idea is to log on daily...

Tubby Rower
24-08-2006, 17:55
why not just do it every 15 days (first and 15th of the month)? same effect without haveing to log on every day or every other day.

Socrates
24-08-2006, 22:08
Exactly. My example was the closest way to do a simultaneous training for several riders without losing some % of training. Switching riders every 15 days can also work if you don't care improving both riders day after day...

Still, my question holds. If you have time everyday (or at least every week, which should be the case if you play such a game), this is a simple way to counter this little loss of training on the whole. Until a new feature is implemented and invalidates it... So ?

Robboo
24-08-2006, 23:04
Sounds valid..

I have 4 guys I am training heavy..one trainer per 2 guys. The rest of the team is getting tactic training.

Socrates
25-08-2006, 01:39
quote:Originally posted by Robboo

The rest of the team is getting tactic training.

Huh ? How do you train tactic only ? I'm getting even more confused...

Robboo
25-08-2006, 02:13
IN the training selection it has late escape, early escape and sprint. So I have 5 guys trainign one of those. I just switched them since I had enought money to buy a 3rd trainer. I havent had an update so i dont know what it does to their ratings.

Tubby Rower
25-08-2006, 14:23
Am I the only one that is making money? I routinely make > 10k per week. I have 2 scouts (one's experienced and one is in training), 3 trainers and 18 riders. I do routinely finish in decent money while winning about 1 out of every 4 races.

I'm currently training 3 per trainer. I'm trying to get all youngins in there so I don't have to freak out when they finally implement the age issue.

Shabbaman
25-08-2006, 15:07
I don't know, I haven't been paying attention to the game in weeks. But I used to make a lot of money.

Robboo
25-08-2006, 15:27
making loads..dont know where to spend it. My rider is the best in the league BUT I probably wont promote due to the engine that gave my main rival the top 3 spots in two spearate races and 9 out of the top 20 in another.

Tubby Rower
25-08-2006, 15:35
I'm happy being 2nd in the Europe division. I win some races. I promoted to the Pro Tour after Beta 1 but I wasn't able to do to well because... well I suck. So I'm happy being in the Europe tour after relegating in Beta 2. I suspect I'll stay here.

Robboo
25-08-2006, 16:54
Well I am in liek teh third division..europe 1.2.3 or something. I'd like to get up I have some great riders. :)

Socrates
26-08-2006, 01:59
Someone please help me, I understand nothing about training !

I'm currently only training one rider with my coach, and he rised in "time" (green arrow, though no pop ?), but he dropped in "climb", "bad road", "sprint", "descend", "steer" and "echelon", as well as in "weight" (lol). Man ! [blush2] I hope all those red arrows don't have the same absolute value as the green arrow.

What's freaking me out is that I have a few riders who now have 6 wheels in some traits, whereas I didn't gave them any coach (I had no 6-wheel trait at the start). How come ? Does that mean that no trainer for a rider means said rider gets training in "domestique", "captain" or "leader" (what you chose) ? Is it any better ? How does that work exactly ?

Also, is there a way to see how many wheels a rider had in a trait before ?

Shabbaman
26-08-2006, 11:17
There's a bug that displays the wheels differently in the team screen than in the rider popup. Perhaps that's causing some confusion.

ProPain
26-08-2006, 11:51
ah, that might also explain why training seems to work correctly when we check database values. I'll look into this asap.

Shabbaman
04-09-2006, 19:30
Woah, wtf has happened to the youth transfer? Most of that riders are better than my best riders! Well, that's a bit of an exaggeration, but it's pretty close.

Robboo
04-09-2006, 19:31
shhh shabba.....dang it.

ProPain
05-09-2006, 00:41
What's your scout level?

Mine is pretty low and I see high riders as well. I;m pretty sure this is a bug caused by rounding upward combined with a non-intuitive display of the wheels that you can see. I'll talk to Daniel in the morning to get this changed asap. When we tought this up it seemed a much better idea than how it unfolds now. My mistake [blush]

Shabbaman
05-09-2006, 10:15
Eh, scout level is 6. I don't know if that's high or low, but I think at most someone could've promoted a scout a week or two earlier.

Another thing, all deadlines of youth riders is tonight. This has to be a big mistake.

Shabbaman
06-09-2006, 14:47
To continue on this [bump] , the riders available for youth transfer are all much, much better than my original riders. I know my scout level is reasonably high, so probably not everyone can see this. Still, they're really good. 6 wheels in climbing or sprint? Some of my riders just went up to 6, after a reasonable amount of training time... The big difference is that these youth riders don't have any experience (which is good!), so now the question is: will experience be more important?

Kingreno
06-09-2006, 15:00
My scouting is at level 4 but 6 soon, I too question the quality of these riders. If the max is at 10 and some have 6 wheels (plus high otehr skills) this is not good IMO.

Shabbaman
06-09-2006, 15:23
I just bought a 18 y.o. rider with 6 wheels in climb and 5 in sprint. Logic predicts he'll win tonight, the race engine will probably make him finish last :D

Too good, definately. And too many btw, or perhaps no one is hiring youth riders. But as it is, I think I could buy about every rider with 5 wheels in any significant attribute. I thought 15k would be a solid price, but now I've dropped down to 6k and still get the good ones.

EDIT:

Ahem. I just remembered my colleague that he had signed up as well. His scout level is 0, and where I see youth riders offered about every minute, his first youth rider can be bought tomorrow. Apparently, scout level has more of an effect that I though.

Tubby Rower
06-09-2006, 15:53
I had a scout stuck in training or I would have a high skill level too [cry]

I can only see a bunch of riders with 3 wheels. I wonder if that means that they have 3 or greater. Is anyone else bidding 50k on these riders or is that just me?

Shabbaman
06-09-2006, 15:55
That means they have 3 wheels, I guess.

Robboo
06-09-2006, 18:08
man gusy shhhhhh...

I have been slowly getting rid of anyone over the age of 25 and gettind all young guys. As a far as bids go Tubby<i have had some go as low as 1k others as high as 30K. Depends on wha teveryone is seeing.

I have also watched a player I sold get "day traded" with out any additional wheels..each time for less money that the previous buyer. He has been sold 3 times now. I sold him at 30K, then someone sold him at 25K and the he just got purchased at 10K. Funny stuff there.

Tubby Rower
06-09-2006, 18:28
funny I've been firing my crappy guys [blush]

Robboo
06-09-2006, 19:41
I list them..some people are fools...