Introducing a new team : Krys Olympic

[Socrates]

Hello ! I've just received my team, after waiting for 10 days. It is called "Krys Olympic", like in that FIFA/McDonald's game for the WC. 'Olympic' because it is used for 2 great French teams : Marseille and Lyon, and also because it is a Greek name. :)

So now I'm already lost. I'm currently #8 in the French league VII.65, and I already have a match on Saturday ! [eek] Not sure if it is the beginning of a new season or what...

Also I'm asked to complete 24 tasks as a beginner, in order to get more money and unlock more content. [hmm] The 1st task is to rename the arena, which is supposed to bring 5,000 €, but then they tell me it costs 4,000 € to do so. [hmm] Also, in the economy page, it seems I have 50,000 €, and am ready to get 10,000 € more, to make that 60,000 €, is that right ?

Not sure if you can have access to all my pages, but anyway here is the link to my team, hoping it works :
http://www64.hattrick.org/Common/teamDetails.asp?TeamID=966147

[Aggie]

Krys, welcome to Hattrick!

Your team was previously called SR Colmor. This team has been playing 9 of the 14 rounds in the current season and is at nr 8 of the league (VII.65). You are probably going to relegate (ending 7th or 8th), because you are 10 points behind nr 6 with 4 matches to go. I had a little bit more luck and started my HT carreer in round 3, enabling me to stay in the league.

Why don't you post your squad here (like others have done before), so we can judge your team's strength!

EDIT: Krys, you should finish all the challenges, allowing you to get another 250,000 euro in total. You will need it badly, amongst other to buy a new coach. Your current coach is to weak to train properly...

[Tubby Rower]

I would hold off on buying a new coach until you have your trainees/ training program decided upon. Since a season after you hire him he starts his decline in leadership and skills. So just make it the last thing that you spend money on, but reserve money for it (ie: don't go into debt before buying him.

copy & paste your squad here (bracketed in [ code][/code] )

[Tubby Rower]

Oh and the challenges will bring in a total of 250 000 Euros. Some of them require you to put up some money. For the one where you have to place a bid on someone, find a high level player (outstanding + ) that has a bid price of < 50 000. You'll most definately be outbid and it will allow you more time to get used to the xfer market before you have to actually buy someone.

When you have to put someone on the Xfer list, wait until we see the squad as some of them will likely be put up for auction. If you need any help let me know, I think that I'm picking this up fairly quickly and while making some stupid mistakes, I think that some of the risks that I have taken are paying off.


EDIT to avoid a triple post::::
Krys, make sure that you change your training to Stamina and 100% as soon as you can. Training updates are tomorrow and since none of your guys played this week, none will get training. But if you put it on Stamina, all players will receive training and (most of) your players stamina will increase.

[Socrates]

Thanks guys ! And I'm glad to see you here, Aggie. :)

That's already worthy advice here, but I'll first make sure to complete all those preliminary tasks. So I won't lose 4,000 € by renaming my stadium like they say, but get 5,000 € instead (only for this time), right ? Can I blindly do those preliminary tasks like this one ? I have already earned 2 * 10,000 € just by lurking 2 pages, haha. :D

I'll come back to you once I have done all of them, and will keep you updated with my team then. I can see the "previous" team (SR Colmor), like Aggie pointed out. Oh, one more question : should I wait for my relegation before making any big change ?

[Tubby Rower]

krys, you'll have to pay the 4k but you'll get 5k in return thus netting you 1k. You should think carefully since renaming your stadium in the future will only cost you.

I would go ahead and get things setup now. As you will soon learn HT is a marathon not a sprint so the quicker you start the further along you'll be. Also good trainees will be more expensive at the beginning of the new season so if you can get them now, they'll age at the end of the season so keep that in mind when buying them... but don't worry about that now.

I looked at your players (we can't see the skills but just TSI) and the only 0 TSI player you have is your coach. [thumbsup]

[Aggie]

Yes it almost looks like your starting squad is OK. But we can't tell more until we see the details.

[Darth Pugwash]

Hey kryszcztov :D

A couple of useful links for a beginer:

http://wiki.hattrick.org/Main_Page <-lots of useful info

http://www.hottrick.org/node/4 <-the 'platypus guide' it's a bit outdated but worth a look

http://www.alltidhattrick.org/ <-useful site that offers rating and statistics about your team

http://france.alltidhattrick.org/stats/29/0/eng/league/72880/index.html <-this is your league, but your team won't appear there until the site is next updated (every monday)

There is quite alot of information in hattrick but you should get to grips with it pretty quickley :)

[Tubby Rower]

krys, could you dump your players' skills here? and btw, fire that new youth pull that you did for your challenges before you have to pay his salary at the end of the week

[Socrates]

Resuming it after last night's victory. ;)

Challenge #7 : booking a friendly (for next Wednesday ?). I want to play against one of you, CDZers. Whoever posts first gets to play with me. :D I need my 15,000 €.

Gonna start lurking your own threads too, and I will post my team soon.

Oh, and I have a new name for my stadium : "Olympus Mons Temple". :D Of course, to carry on the Greek/Olympic theme. 'Temple' because it fits the theme and today's stadiums could be seen as temples of course. And 'Olympus Mons' isn't only that mountain in Greece and the mountain of the gods, but also the highest mountain in the Solar System, on planet Mars precisely, and is directly quoted from a song by the Pixies (on the "Trompe Le Monde" album, awesome).

[Aggie]

Krys, we are busy with the CDZ cup and "all of us" are playing. However, there's a team not active anymore and it might be an idea to challenge the team that should have played them next week.

BTW: good to see that you like the Pixies. Be it their slightly lesser album of the bunch :)

[Socrates]

quote:Originally posted by Aggie

Krys, we are busy with the CDZ cup and "all of us" are playing. However, there's a team not active anymore and it might be an idea to challenge the team that should have played them next week.
Didn't get it. There is one CDZ team out of the cup already ? Who is it ? Or is it something else ?

quote:BTW: good to see that you like the Pixies. Be it their slightly lesser album of the bunch :)

Nah, I'm not listening. I am a Trompe-Le-Monde-ist. [cool] Hurray for Planet Of Sound !! :rockon:

[Tubby Rower]

Krys, on Hottrick (http://www.hottrick.org/hattrick_friendlies_view) you can find people. Also there are ads. You also might want to look in your countries top leagues to find a team in division 1, 2, or 3 that are out of the cup and just start spamming friendly invitations all over the place. book it away so that you use their stadium and their supporter's base. if you keep it inside your own country you don't have to pay the 6k travel fees.

[Socrates]

quote:Originally posted by Tubby Rower

if you keep it inside your own country you don't have to pay the 6k travel fees.

Oops. Trips across Europe are expensive. I understand a bit more why there are so many Dutch people at CDZ. [groucho]

[Aggie]

quote:Originally posted by kryszcztov

Didn't get it. There is one CDZ team out of the cup already ? Who is it ? Or is it something else ?

The CDZ cup is a tournament between 32 teams of this site. We are all playing in this cup until the end and be ranked 1 to 32 at the end. This means that you won't easily find one of us willing to play you for a couple of weeks. However, one team appears to be out because the manager of that team (Black Marlins) hasn't accepted any challenges from the opponents. So only one team is able to accept another challenge. Last week that team was mine.

You can find all about the CDZ cup in the stickied threads in this forum.

I still prefer Bossanova, but indeed Planet of Sound is great!

[Tubby Rower]

maybe you could request to replace the Black Marlins... Then you'll have a friendly every week.

[Kemal]

The cup management would even like to encourage you to join and step in for Black Marlins, who indeed is a Walk-over team at the moment. :)

However, playing in the CDZ Cup could mean playing an international away game from time to time, meaning 6K travel costs. Then again, playing teams of people you know is just much more fun, imho.

[Socrates]

OK, if I can have a place in the CDZ Cup, let's go for it. I won't mind the 6k fee much. I joined Hattrick because of here. :) So, who will be up against me next week ? I'd need to book the game as soon as possible, so as to finish the preliminary challenges (my only occupation for the moment).

[Tubby Rower]

you'd play the Pyknights if you did replace the Black Marlins

[barbu1977]

Welcome to HT and to the CDZ cup.

We will play 2 weeks from now. Since I'll be on vacation, I'll only be able to accept the friendly the monday before the game.

[Kemal]

I've replaced Black Marlins with Krys Olympic in the tables and notified your next opponent of this change. As said, next game is vs Pyknites from Holland, see the tables and fixtures thread.

Welcome and good luck in the Cup!

[Socrates]

OK cool ! [goodjob]

I found the Pyknites at HT, and am ready to ask for a friendly for next Wednesday. If I got it well, I will play at home, right ? Also, are we already in the knock-out stage (cup rules) or still in the league stage (normal rules) ?

[akots]

quote:Originally posted by kryszcztov
... And 'Olympus Mons' isn't only that mountain in Greece and the mountain of the gods, but also the highest mountain in the Solar System, on planet Mars precisely ...


You might as well read two recent SF books by Dan Simmons: Iluim and Olympos

http://www.dansimmons.com/images/iliumcoversketch_resdown3.jpg

[Tubby Rower]

you would use Normal Rules and you are correct that you should challenge to a home game.

[Socrates]

OK, I challenged the Pyknites. :) The thing is that I don't seem to pass the challenge as long as he doesn't answer me positively... I'm stucked at Challenge #10 ; I reorganized my squad on the pitch (lol, half of them have REALLY WEIRD French first names : very 'old France'), and I also placed a bid on a good keeper, but lost the bid minutes after it was done.

[barbu1977]

quote:Originally posted by kryszcztov

and I also placed a bid on a good keeper, but lost the bid minutes after it was done.


The deadline will be pushed back 3 minutes from the time of the last bid. That leaves time for others to respond to your bid.

[Tubby Rower]

at least you have a few games in you future games list.. When I got my team it was the end of the season and it took me almost 3 weeks to complete all of the challenges.

Have you decided upon a training regime? I would decide on that before you go out buying players. (ie: if you buy a 20yo solid keeper now, and later decide that you are going to train keepers, you'll need to sell that guy and buy a younger player that will accept training better)

[Socrates]

quote:Originally posted by barbu1977

quote:Originally posted by kryszcztov

and I also placed a bid on a good keeper, but lost the bid minutes after it was done.


The deadline will be pushed back 3 minutes from the time of the last bid. That leaves time for others to respond to your bid.


I said it badly. I meant that I lost the bid a few minutes after I had bid, but there was still more than one hour to bid left. So I think I didn't lost any money there ?

And the Pyknites accepted the challenge !! [thumbsup] He must have been warned by Kemal, so thanks.

[Socrates]

Here is my team. I started with those players, except (IIRC) :
- Lénaïc Peyraud : assistant coach for the challenge ;
- Jean Lebreton : young player promoted from my club for the challenge.
Alexis Brisset was put on the transfer list for the challenge, at 5,000 € : does it sound good ?
The 16 other guys are used in my lineup and my bench. All are listed according to their TSI.

quote:Your 19 players

Mathieu Boissonneault
TSI = 1 050 , 22 years, inadequate form
Has disastrous experience and weak leadership abilities

Stamina: weak Keeper: wretched
Playmaking: weak Passing: passable
Winger: weak Defending: wretched
Scoring: passable Set pieces: poor

Laurent Lenoir
TSI = 920 , 26 years, solid form
Has poor experience and passable leadership abilities

Stamina: poor Keeper: wretched
Playmaking: weak Passing: passable
Winger: poor Defending: passable
Scoring: weak Set pieces: weak

Raymond Benedetti
TSI = 720 , 19 years, weak form
Has disastrous experience and inadequate leadership abilities

Stamina: passable Keeper: wretched
Playmaking: weak Passing: passable
Winger: wretched Defending: disastrous
Scoring: passable Set pieces: disastrous

Jean-Lou Mouysset
TSI = 720 , 25 years, wretched form
Has poor experience and poor leadership abilities [Powerful]

Stamina: weak Keeper: disastrous
Playmaking: weak Passing: inadequate
Winger: inadequate Defending: passable
Scoring: passable Set pieces: poor

Jean Marouby
TSI = 690 , 25 years, weak form
Has wretched experience and inadequate leadership abilities

Stamina: inadequate Keeper: wretched
Playmaking: passable Passing: weak
Winger: inadequate Defending: weak
Scoring: inadequate Set pieces: poor

Thomas Plançon
TSI = 690 , 22 years, passable form
Has wretched experience and inadequate leadership abilities

Stamina: poor Keeper: disastrous
Playmaking: weak Passing: passable
Winger: weak Defending: inadequate
Scoring: weak Set pieces: solid

Hilaire Raud
TSI = 620 , 20 years, inadequate form
Has disastrous experience and disastrous leadership abilities [Quick]

Stamina: poor Keeper: disastrous
Playmaking: weak Passing: weak
Winger: inadequate Defending: poor
Scoring: solid Set pieces: poor

Daoud Laymani
TSI = 600 , 23 years, inadequate form
Has disastrous experience and poor leadership abilities

Stamina: wretched Keeper: disastrous
Playmaking: weak Passing: solid
Winger: inadequate Defending: poor
Scoring: inadequate Set pieces: poor

Laurent Macrez
TSI = 460 , 25 years, poor form
Has wretched experience and weak leadership abilities

Stamina: poor Keeper: wretched
Playmaking: weak Passing: inadequate
Winger: solid Defending: poor
Scoring: poor Set pieces: poor

Thierno Faye
TSI = 370 , 25 years, inadequate form
Has wretched experience and weak leadership abilities

Stamina: wretched Keeper: disastrous
Playmaking: solid Passing: poor
Winger: poor Defending: wretched
Scoring: weak Set pieces: poor

Victor Cussac
TSI = 310 , 31 years, weak form
Has poor experience and solid leadership abilities [Unpredictable]

Stamina: weak Keeper: disastrous
Playmaking: inadequate Passing: weak
Winger: inadequate Defending: passable
Scoring: poor Set pieces: disastrous

Naim Talfah
TSI = 290 , 22 years, passable form
Has disastrous experience and inadequate leadership abilities

Stamina: passable Keeper: wretched
Playmaking: wretched Passing: weak
Winger: wretched Defending: inadequate
Scoring: inadequate Set pieces: solid

Yvan Bach
TSI = 260 , 26 years, passable form
Has wretched experience and inadequate leadership abilities

Stamina: wretched Keeper: wretched
Playmaking: inadequate Passing: weak
Winger: passable Defending: poor
Scoring: weak Set pieces: poor

Jean-Damien Duvivier
TSI = 230 , 28 years, poor form
Has poor experience and inadequate leadership abilities

Stamina: wretched Keeper: weak
Playmaking: wretched Passing: wretched
Winger: disastrous Defending: disastrous
Scoring: disastrous Set pieces: inadequate

Valère Gaudefroy
TSI = 180 , 25 years, weak form
Has wretched experience and inadequate leadership abilities [Powerful]

Stamina: inadequate Keeper: wretched
Playmaking: weak Passing: weak
Winger: weak Defending: disastrous
Scoring: inadequate Set pieces: passable

Esteban Touze
TSI = 170 , 27 years, wretched form
Has wretched experience and weak leadership abilities [Powerful]

Stamina: inadequate Keeper: wretched
Playmaking: disastrous Passing: passable
Winger: wretched Defending: weak
Scoring: weak Set pieces: passable

Alexis Brisset [Transfer-listed]
TSI = 50 , 20 years, weak form
Has wretched experience and wretched leadership abilities

Stamina: poor Keeper: disastrous
Playmaking: weak Passing: wretched
Winger: weak Defending: poor
Scoring: wretched Set pieces: poor

Jean Lebreton
TSI = 0 , 18 years, passable form
Has disastrous experience and weak leadership abilities

Stamina: poor Keeper: disastrous
Playmaking: wretched Passing: poor
Winger: poor Defending: wretched
Scoring: wretched Set pieces: disastrous

Lénaïc Peyraud
TSI = 0 , 49 years, weak form
Has weak experience and weak leadership abilities [Powerful]

Stamina: wretched Keeper: disastrous
Playmaking: disastrous Passing: disastrous
Winger: disastrous Defending: disastrous
Scoring: disastrous Set pieces: weak

[akots]

You can safely fire the bottom 5 players up to the keeper. And do this better sooner than later (before Friday payday comes; not sure when it is in France) so that you don't need to pay their salary for the week.

[Socrates]

Well, 1 of my crappy players is already on the transfer list, as you can see ; will I have to pay him his salary (the bid ends on Sunday evening) ? The last guy is obviously the coach, and I need one, even if he is crappy. But I have one question : how many players do I have to keep in my club ? 11 at least, of course, but I saw there are 5 players on the bench for each match. So if I fire those 5 guys at the bottom, I will be left with 14 guys, and no coach. Sure in this case I have to recruit more players, no ? And should I fire them or sell them ? Isn't selling always better ?

[Mistfit]

you will need to fire them as no one will buy them from you. They are worthless.

Keep the coach until you get a new one.

At this point you need to decide what you will train then you can put a plan together for what you need to buy and sell

[akots]

It makes sense to sell only something that others will buy.

You can go really cheap and buy yourself a few passable players in the main skill to complement the squad to total of 16-17 players. Usually, you need more than minimal 16-17 (that coach should never be allowed in the field imho) because some can get injured but for the present time it can be OK. You can try to start playing with 3-5-2 and for this you need 3 passable defenders (Lenoir, Mouysset, Cussac), 2 wingers (Macrez, Bach), 3 midfields (Faye, Marouby, third is missing, you can try to buy one), and 2 forwards (Boissonneault, Benedetti and Raud, so you have one extra here) or you can immediately start playing 3-4-3 with same defenders, 2 wingers, 2 playmakers, and 3 forwards. In the latter case you don't have to buy anything while trying to use some inadequates as substitutions.

Also you have to decide on what to train and adjust you lineup accordingly while trying to get some cash to buy a solid coach so that the training is more efficient.

[Tubby Rower]

Also... You don't have to have 5 backups in your lineups.... I played with just 2 or 3 for a while. But since I'm competitive in my league (bottom in the US) I went out and got backups.

[BCLG100]

I have about 18 players and 6 of them are trainees. :) with one back up for them

[Aggie]

Question from a newbie: Would it be a good idea for Krys to train stamina first? The midfielders really need to improve that skill to be as effective as can be.

[Tubby Rower]

I can't believe that they didn't give you at least an inadequate keeper!! the best you have (I've scanned the list 3 times) is a weak keeper in Jean-Damien Duvivier. He'll need to be fired once you find a replacement. But don't find a replacement until you decide on your training. Since it is at the end of the season, you should be able to get a passable / solid keeper for cheap. Passable trainees run around 40k - 50k; solids run 120k to 150k. you should be able to get an older one for cheaper. If you decide to train GK, then try to find a current 17 yo passable. everyone ages in 5 weeks. You can use one of the keeper tools (the one from kayasaki is better because of the unknown option) http://www.hottrick.org/hattrick_keeper_tool.php .

Answer from a newbie to Aggie's question, I would say yes train stamina for a week or 3 or until krys decides on a training regime.

[socralynnek]

I'd advise you to train keepers for a while (but for the moment 1-2 weeks of Stamina seem like a good idea)
You have no decent keeper, so you'd have to buy one either way. Keepers is a good training for new teams as you can sell the first relatively fast and once you change your training you have a decent keeper to keep. And you would only have to buy two young (17-18 years) keepers instead of at least 6 for other training types.

Tubby did the same and I think it was good advice.

[Tubby Rower]

If you do decide on training keepers, there is a GoalKeeping trainers Federation you can join if you are a supporter. but it looks like you aren't. They have 3 threads in that federation for ads 1. GK <= Excellent, 2. GK >= formiddable, 3. non-keeper sales. Training GK is the most flexible training regime as it will let you react to your opponents' formations rather than have to always play 5 midfielders, 3 forwards, etc. The money isn't bad and could come quick if you needed it since a 17-18yo GK takes ~5 weeks to pop levels with a solid skilled coach.

I've been keeping an eye out on prices and such for everything in there. If anyone else is looking for a keeper, you might want to join this fed until you get one just to keep an eye on the appropriate threads.

[Tubby Rower]

I looked at your team and this is what I've come up with (although I'm new so feel free to ignore any and/or all of this). I put the important stats next to the players. The stats in the parenthesis are contributing but necessary stats.

[u]Forwards</u>
1. Hilaire Raud solid scoring
2. Raymond Benedetti passable scoring (passable passing)
3. Mathieu Boissonneault passable scoring

[u]Midfielders</u>
1. Thierno Faye solid playmaking
2. Jean Marouby passable playmaking
3. Yvan Bach inadequate playmaking & passable winger &lt;- could be played towards wing to strengthen one side if needed

[u]Wingers</u>
1. Laurent Macrez solid winger & inadequate passing
2. Daoud Laymani inadequate winger & solid passing (inadequate scoring)

[u]Central Defenders</u>
1. Thomas Plançon inadequate defending & solid set pieces (passable passing)
2. Jean-Lou Mouysset passable defending (inadequate passing & passable scoring)
3. Laurent Lenoir passable defending (passable passing)

[u]Wing Backs</u>
1. Victor Cussac passable defending & inadequate winger

[u]GK</u>
none -&gt; you need to buy one

[u] maybe try to sell</u>
Naim Talfah solid set pieces but inadequate defending isn't needed since you have 3 already

[u]firing squad</u> &lt;- you can only fire one player per 12 hours so get cracking
Jean-Damien Duvivier
Valère Gaudefroy
Esteban Touze
Alexis Brisset &lt;- if he doesn't sell, which if he does, I'll be surprised
Jean Lebreton



so it looks like you could play a 3-5-2, 3-4-3, 4-4-2 and if you keep Naim Talfah as a defender it will open up 5-3-2 and 5-4-1. You have a fairly versitile squad and except for lacking a keeper it's not too bad. Your players TSI (and thereby performance) will increase as their form increases. You should hire at least one GK coach and 1 assistant coach as they improve form. If you are going to train stamina for a few weeks, expect your form to drop a bit, but it WILL get better. There isn't too much further to go down in form.

[Socrates]

Thanks guys. [goodjob] I really appreciate your advice, though there is so much of it, and I don't know where to start. I'm currently waiting for the GMs to validate my identity (should happen before Sunday), and then I'll be able to complete the challenges and really get into the game. Until then I prefer to do just little things.

I have got rid of Jean Lebreton, my newbie. Alexis Brisset is still up for sale until Sunday evening ; if he doesn't sell, I'll fire him on Monday. Then I guess I'll have to hire a few coaches and buy a good goal keeper.

The current training (or is it updated next Thursday ?) is on stamina, at 100%. I don't know what system to choose. It seems that 4-4-2 is the standard one, and that players always have an excellent ability to play that way, so I guess I should keep that for the moment, since all the rest is weak. I confess I'm willing to imitate the French team in RL : probably a 4-5-1, with a coach into defensive tactics. But I don't know, because the scores seem to be very high, like in the very old days (also called "babyfoot scores") : 5-3, 7-0, etc... [lol]

I also plan to invest a maximum of money into the youngsters, I've read that it can turn gold after a season.

I guess I have a few weeks before next season, and this should give me the time needed to set my club on track.

[socralynnek]

You might want to keep Gaudefroy, with a little stamina training he can be back up midfielder or winger.

With the rest, I agree with Tubby's analysis.

You were really unlucky with your starting squad.

Your forwards are ok but the rest is bad.

You might even want to buy a passable or solid playmaker under 30 with a little experience (at least inadequate). Shouldn't be that expensive.

[Tubby Rower]

I wouldn't invest in your Youth Squad yet. I started mine @ 10k around week 6 (so 8 weeks after I started). I'm still losing money slightly but not over a 2-week period. My youth squad has been at inadequate for 3 weeks now. I think that 10k investment gets it up to passable. Next season I'll be upping the investment to 20k, but I can't afford it right now.

As far as you formation experience, all of the "other" formations will stay weak until you play a match with them. So while your team is not competitive is the ideal time to get experience in formations. So decide on a training regime and then get experience in the 2 formations that cater to that training style (for GK training you can just pick two... mine are 3-4-3 and 3-5-2 currently but I have experience in 5-3-2 as well)

[ProPain]

Totally OT:

About the Pixies: first two albums are my favourite. Monkey gone to heaven for sure my favourite Pixies song.

And akots is absolutely right about:
quote:
You might as well read two recent SF books by Dan Simmons: Iluim and Olympos


And while you're at it read the Hyperion books by Dan Simmons as well: awesome SF
(but I;m biased, I;ve been a huge Simmons fan for ages and I like all his books, SF, horror and recent sort of 'film noir' detectives)

[Socrates]

Yippee, I passed all my challenges !! [goodjob] So I have access to all the normal features now.

I was updated on the economy page, and checked the figures ; the only thing I can't compute is the income from the sponsors, at 19,643 € for this week. This basically covers the investment in the youth squad : 20,000 €. Yes, it may look stupid, but I'm going to take that route and see where it leads me to. I'll have to sell players a lot, that's for sure.

OK, let's have a few questions.

- It seems that my assistant coach, who is my general coach at the moment, is still regarded as a player, and he gets away with 2 wages : 500 € as a "player" (minimum because he is 49 and he sucks) and 1,500 € as a "coach". [hmm] Don't know if it's possible, but I don't want him to play football, and I'd like to get back my 500 € per week, how do I do that ?

- I can see that the level of my youth squad is 'poor' at the moment. Is there a slight chance that the youngster of the week can be better than 'poor' on average, or will I never get a surprise ? In other words : should I keep my 2,000 € each week before the level of the youth squad reaches a certain level (which one ?), or should I promote one player each week ? Does promoting a youngster each week accelerate the level of the youth squad ?

- Do players have memory of their left/right position on the field ? Do they get confused if I switch them left/right (left/right backs and wingers), or is it the same ? More generally, how do I choose a winger to be on the left or on the right ?

I think that'll do for now. ;)

My goal is to get used to the game before the next season starts. I will be relegated for sure, so there is nothing I can do. I'd like my economy to be on track by next season, and for that I need a solid plan to equalize income and expense.

[Kemal]

Your general coach is the one in the squad earning 500 a week, your assistant is part of the additional staff of the club (all staff members earn 1500/week standard) and thus should be considered as a seperate individual. The general coach is mandatory and cannot be fired, the assistant is optional and only increases the speed at which training takes place. If you have a passable/poor or solid/poor coach (500/week guy), I would keep the assistant as well.

You can always get a good youth player no matter what the level of the academy, but the chances of that happening are extremely slim at the lower levels.

Players do not care whether they are fielded left or right, so no problems there. As to what is your left and right side, look from the goalkeeper's perspective when placing the match orders.

[socralynnek]

If you want to keep your youth expenses at 20 000 Euros, there is only one way to not go into debt for some time: training to sell!

Your home matches income won't be very much for a long time.

For any of the training types : defending, playmaking, scoring; you will have a lot of problems financing your squad cause it takes a long time until you have the first decent sale.

So, the only way would be: buy 2 young keepers soon, train them and sell the first one when he reaches excellent or formidable.
And get at least a coach with passable skill (79600 Euros)

[Tubby Rower]

I would argue that obtaining a coach with solid skill and poor leadership would be the best way to go. That way you won't have to buy another coach in 3 seasons. You'll likely go into debt, but I think that it's acceptable and manageable. I've been hovering between 100k and 150k in debt. I've been purchasing players during that time too to make my squad stronger.

if you are training GK, then you can sell one of them quicker to pay some money back if you get too deep in debt. But you'll also have to get another trainee

[socralynnek]

But then 20k into youth would be suicidal as then he has to be carefully anyway.

[Socrates]

OK, I'll just let tonight's match as is, so as to see how it goes, and will take some actions before Wednesday's friendly (CDZ Cup but I don't stand a chance there). Can you tell me if that sounds good for next week ? :

- Hire a good coach, at least in skills, and fire my current coach.
- Promote goal keepers only, from my youth squad.
- Keep the training on stamina for the moment, then switch to keeper training before next season starts.
- Hire 1 GK coach.
- Hire a few staff members of each category.
- Sell or fire my weakest players, so as to only keep 14 (11 + 3) football players in the club. I guess we can have 3 subs per match. This will reduce the wages while I'm in business mode (I'm not in winning squad mode).

My arena already has 12,000 seats (no VIP), I guess that's enough for now (next season I'll be in Division VIII) ?

Anything else ?

[Shabbaman]

You don't need a psychologist or a doctor.

[Aggie]

I didn't get a solid coach, but a passable/poor one. that's 80K instead of 250K and I'm happy with the training progress for now.

[Kemal]

I'd only hire 1 assistant coach when you decide to shift training from stamina to something else (assistants don't help training stamina), and leave it at that for now... maybe you could get 1 spokesperson as well but I doubt he will be worth it at this moment...

I'd also second the passable coach, btw. Solid is very risky with the path you intend to take.

[Mistfit]

I know it is a bit premature but I thought I'd start to work out a logo for you [:p]
http://img212.imageshack.us/img212/5517/krys19is.jpg

[Socrates]

quote:Originally posted by Mistfit

I know it is a bit premature but I thought I'd start to work out a logo for you [:p]

Haha, well done ! [thumbsup] You all want me to pay, uh ? ;) Though you could even put that in Greek letters :

http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/kryszcztov/20067819410_krys_olympic.jpg
6.04KB

(Kris Olympikê [cool] )

[Socrates]

Hope the link works for you. This is the summary of my first match ever, and I was leading 1-0 at half-time !!

http://www43.hattrick.org/Common/matchDetails.asp?matchID=73854404

[Tubby Rower]

wow you had a guy get 2 yellows in his and your first game. That's impressive.

[Socrates]

A little update, after being away from the game for 2 days (you know why).

So, after getting rid of Jean Lebreton (my 1st newbie of the week), I got rid of Alexis Brisset who didn't sell. I also put Valère Gaudefroy and Esteban Touze for sale, at 1,000 € each.

I got me this newbie this week :
Pierre-Henri Nury
TSI = 0 , 22 years, passable form
Has disastrous experience and poor leadership abilities

Stamina: wretched Keeper: wretched
Playmaking: wretched Passing: wretched
Winger: disastrous Defending: disastrous
Scoring: disastrous Set pieces: poor
He will get fired as soon as I can (I have 12 hours at least before firing another guy).

I also got me a new coach ! I followed your advice, and got the one at 79,600 €. Unfortunately, he is from Sweden and will cost me 600 € per week, instead of 500 €. Here is his full identity card :
Melker Lagerskog (7772035)
58 years, wretched form, healthy
A passable trainer who is defence-minded
A nasty fellow who is calm and dishonest.
Has brilliant experience and poor leadership abilities.

Nationality: Sverige
Total Skill Index (TSI): 0
Wage: 600 €/week including 20% Bonus
Owner: Krys Olympic
Warnings: 0
Injuries: Healthy


Stamina: passable Goalkeeping: disastrous
Playmaking: disastrous Passing: disastrous
Winger: disastrous Defending: disastrous
Scoring: disastrous Set Pieces: wretched

Career Goals: 0
Career Hattricks: 0
League goals this season: 0
Cup goals this season: 0

Question : Should I keep on promoting young players each week when my youth squad structure is poor, or should I just pay 20,000 € each week and wait for the structure to get better to start promoting ? That's 2,000 € purely wasted for the moment (the 20,000 € is a long-term investment).

[Tubby Rower]

I've been pulling kids from the Youth Squad mainly out of a lottery type mentality. I'm not expecting anything. I'm up to my 4th week @ inadequate (10k / week investment). After I get my cash reserves in the black, I'll up it to 20k/week.

[Socrates]

OK, I'll carry on my youth squad policy, and will promote a youngster every week. I'll stop it or reduce the investment to 10,000 € if money gets low.

There is one last thing I'd like to do this week : buy a good keeper or two. Should I get a passable or a solid one in keeper ability ? Is it better if he is young or old ? Is there any other ability that is important for a keeper ? Anything else to think of, apart from searching a low price ? ;)

[socralynnek]

The first decent youth pull I had when the youth squad was inadequate (and that was in a time where lower skill payers sold) or so, I think you can save the 2K until it hits inadequate.

[Tubby Rower]

krys, if you can afford it, get a solid or better GK. They turn solid around 3k TSI and 4.5k TSI is where they turn excellent. Use one of the GK tools to determine the sublevel. if you aren't training keepers then get an older one with experience as that will help his performance.

<s>You should be able to get a solid for 120k - 150k I believe.</s>

edit: I just did a quick search in two regions and saw that a lot of solids are going for 75k with about 45 minutes to go. That doesn't mean that they won't go up but you might get lucky.

[socralynnek]

If you want to train keepers, you have to get two young ones (17 or 18) at least passable. Younger players train much much faster than older ones.

If you don't want to train keepers soon get an older one with a little experience (maybe inadeqaute experience and solid skill)

[Aggie]

What about this idea? Get a 17-18 y.o. inadequate keeper with at least 1450 TSI. They can be bought for 4K max. Within one week they are passable...

EDIT: only if you are training keepers of course...

[Tubby Rower]

That's what my youngest trainee was. I bought him for more than 4k IIRC. He was marketed and bidded on as a near-passable 17yo 2 months ago. Although this late in the season you could get one cheaper since they are nearly an 18 yo.

On a much brighter note, he's now solid and will be excellent by week 14.

[Socrates]

I followed your advice, and was close to getting a keeper at a low price. He was around 1800 TSI, and was passable in keeper. The thing is, when I clicked on the transfer page a few minutes after I had bid, it said that I had bought the player. Then I clicked on the player page, and there it said another bidder had placed a higher bid !! [???] It happened around 3 minutes after my bid (I'm aware of the 3-minute rule). I'm disappointed, because it said I had won on a page, and the opposite on another page. :( In matter of minutes, it went from 5,000 € to 28,000 €. I stopped bidding at 25,000 €.

Since there aren't that many possibilities, I think I should try to search for a foreign player. It seems there are too few French players in this game, am I wrong ? And is it worth the 20% extra wage ?

[Tubby Rower]

Here's my opinion.....20% wage increase isn't too detrimental at the salaries that you and I are paying. When you get the one's that are &gt;10k @ +20% you should be able to handle the extra increase, but it's always good to save money.

[socralynnek]

You know that he is patriotic after that World Cup ;)

If you want to invest some time, you could try to get a French one. Surely it saves you some money, but a foreign one wouldn't kill you.

[Socrates]

quote:Originally posted by socralynnek

You know that he is patriotic after that World Cup ;)

No, not here. ;) Sure it is a nice touch when my players have their stupid and old French names (for some of them), but the real motive is that foreigners cost 20% more for no benefit. So, all things being equalized, a French player for me is always better. But it is a limiting factor when I search for players on the market, that's certain.

[Socrates]

I have a good news : my youth squad structure is now 'weak', instead of 'poor'. :) After only 2 weeks of maximum investment. I think I'll continue as is, and won't promote a youngster before it reaches 'inadequate', like someone said. I hope it happens before the end of next season.

Am I right if I say that it doesn't matter to change my coach (I'm back to my sucky one [blush2] ) before next training (mid-week) ?

Should I buy different kinds of staff people before next season ? I'm on the way to GK training, so how many of GK coaches should I get ? How many assistant coaches ? I'm still in the blur as how staff people influence my players, exactly...

I plan to post a major update about the status of my club right before next season starts (ie. in some 4 weeks). :)

[Tubby Rower]

some have said that by going from 5 GK to 9 GK coaches only cuts a week (one week) off of a GK going from passable to divine. I still don't buy it, so I have 9. I also have a couple that are right at the edge of shaving a week off of training. So that's another reason that I have the 9 instead of trying the 5. You should definately hire at least 1 maybe up to 3 assistant coaches as they will improve the form of the rest of your squad.

once you get your trainees, you are losing money by not having a passable or solid coach. so after you get the trainees, hire your coach before the next training update. Also when buying trainees make sure that they have played or will play as GK that week.

To sum up, get at least 5 GK coaches even if money is hurting.

[Dell19]

I would suggest that getting the assistant coaches is not an immediate priority. Considering that you are investing in your youth academy having 3 goalkeeper and 3 assistant coaches would probably be fine.

[Socrates]

Lost 3-1 tonight. The good news is that I got a player injured for 7 weeks. Three games already, and I haven't had one with no injury or red card... [mischief] Maybe I should play them cool until the end of the season. Don't want to transform my club into an hospital... Should I hire some doctors to speed up recovery, or should I buy more players ? [hmm]

[Kemal]

How good is this player exactly, in terms of skill, and how old is he?

I think you're better off firing him and buying yourself a replacement...

[socralynnek]

Play it cool has no consequence to injuries and cards.

It only affects midfield ratings and team spirit.

[Socrates]

My injured player :

Jean Marouby (121996001)
25 years, inadequate form, injured (7 weeks)
A pleasant guy who is tranquil and dishonest.
Has wretched experience and inadequate leadership abilities.

Nationality: France
Total Skill Index (TSI): 930
Wage: 700 €/week
Owner: Krys Olympic
Warnings: 0
Injuries: 7 weeks


Stamina: solid Goalkeeping: wretched
Playmaking: passable Passing: weak
Winger: inadequate Defending: weak
Scoring: inadequate Set Pieces: poor

Career Goals: 0
Career Hattricks: 0
League goals this season: 0
Cup goals this season: 0
I used him as a midfielder.

[Kemal]

Hmm, you'll find him a bit light on PM I think once he has recovered, but he does offer a lot of flexibility since he can play winger towards the middle, forward toward the wing and even offensive wingback with reasonable succes, so he is very useful to have around in the squad.

I'm not sure whether he can be replaced for &lt;10K, but if not I'd keep him without hiring doctors.

[socralynnek]

I don't think he loses skill at this age even when injured, but when the injury is gone he will be in a bad form and won't help your time for a time.

I guess, you can get a solid PM with solid or excellent Stamina for less than 20K, a passable PM with a little exp should be under 10K, so it is cheaper to buy a better player than to hire doctors (1.5K a week) and then just fire him.

[Socrates]

Some news...

Today I was able to buy 2 goal keepers within 30 minutes. I think I made a good deal but I'm not sure. What do you think ?

quote:Camille Dartois (122594824)
18 years, passable form, healthy
A sympathetic guy who is temperamental and upright.
Has disastrous experience and wretched leadership abilities.

Nationality: France
Total Skill Index (TSI): 2 040
Wage: 2 060 €/week
Owner: Krys Olympic
Warnings: 0
Injuries: Healthy


Stamina: poor Goalkeeping: passable
Playmaking: disastrous Passing: disastrous
Winger: disastrous Defending: disastrous
Scoring: disastrous Set Pieces: disastrous

Career Goals: 0
Career Hattricks: 0
League goals this season: 0
Cup goals this season: 0



Ludovic Marescaux (122360727)
18 years, passable form, healthy
A pleasant guy who is temperamental and honest.
Has disastrous experience and poor leadership abilities.

Nationality: France
Total Skill Index (TSI): 1 800
Wage: 1 940 €/week
Owner: Krys Olympic
Warnings: 0
Injuries: Healthy


Stamina: wretched Goalkeeping: passable
Playmaking: disastrous Passing: wretched
Winger: disastrous Defending: disastrous
Scoring: disastrous Set Pieces: disastrous

Career Goals: 0
Career Hattricks: 0
League goals this season: 0
Cup goals this season: 0
Camille Dartois was bought for 23,001 €, Ludovic Marescaux for 33,000 €.

I think it's useless to have more than 2 goal keepers in one team, since only 2 of them can play in one week, and players have to play in order to make training effective, right ? I'll now put my old goal keeper for sale, maybe I'll grab a little money...

I also got me a new coach, since my latest one got lost in HT's downtime. Chose the same characteristics (79,600 €), and he's also from Sweden for some reason.

quote:Jan Persson (8763045)
59 years, inadequate form, healthy
A passable trainer who is defence-minded
A pleasant guy who is fiery and honest.
Has formidable experience and poor leadership abilities.

Nationality: Sverige
Total Skill Index (TSI): 0
Wage: 600 €/week including 20% Bonus
Owner: Krys Olympic
Warnings: 0
Injuries: Healthy


Stamina: poor Goalkeeping: disastrous
Playmaking: disastrous Passing: disastrous
Winger: wretched Defending: disastrous
Scoring: disastrous Set Pieces: disastrous

Career Goals: 0
Career Hattricks: 0
League goals this season: 0
Cup goals this season: 0
And of course I got rid of my ancient coach, this time for good.

Since there are 2 league matches left for this season, and since there are 2 weeks of nothing/whatever, what should I set up for training ? Between stamina and goal keeper ? Should I do stamina during the inter-season because there isn't any game ?

[Tubby Rower]

I think that you paid right about what they are worth. Since they'll be turning 19 soon, they'll train a bit slower. So it might take 6 weeks instead of 5 weeks for them to pop. No big deal, just don't be surprised if it takes a week longer. Camille Dartois is around passable +2 weeks and Ludovic Marescaux is around passable +1. So you either got Camille as a good deal or Ludovic a little expensive.

I would train stamina over the off-season as that won't effect your GK training as much. Depending on your financial situation, I'd train them to excellent (2 pops) and then sell them and get some younger trainees mid to late next season. That should be enough to get two 17 yo passables with one of the sales and then the other can be used to get other players.

[Socrates]

OK, I'll train GK now, and switch to stamina for the whole team during the off-season, before going back to GK training at the start of next season. I think I also should buy a few good players at the beginning of the off-season, so as to get rid of my weakest players (and have a few replacements).

I've heard that investing 5k into the youth squad until it reaches inadequate is almost as quick as investing 20k, and the same for 10k and passable, is this correct ? If so, I might reduce it to 5k now, since it has just hit weak (that was last week)...

I still have much money in my hands (estimation of around 135k when the economic update happens this week). I don't think I need much investment for next season, as I'll be releguated to Division VIII where the level is low (not sure but it seems it's the lowest division in France), but the problem is that I'll be making less money there, right ?

I'd like to slowly turn to a 4-5-1 team, and work my attacks, rather than counter-attacking like now (I have such a weak midfield, and my injured player is an inner midfielder).

So yes, questions :
- 20k down to 5k for youth squad : worth it ? almost as effective (not in a hurry) ?
- spend most of my money on good players ? young or old ?

[Tubby Rower]

spend yor money on better trainees if you hadn't already bought two, I'm doing 10k and I got to inadequate YS fairly fast.... but it hasn't hit passable yet

[Socrates]

I already have 2 good GK trainees. I still have much money. :D But apart from those 2 trainees (I chose one for the league, one for the friendlies) and the coach, I have spent little money so far...

The problem is that I should buy a few good players, but apart from stamina, none will improve in my team if I train GK, so I won't make a profit with them on the market. Of course I make a profit on the field, does that compensate enough ? Or maybe it's the fact that I have to pay much less staff for the GK ?

[Tubby Rower]

do you have &gt; 5 GK coaches and at least one assistant coach?

you could also hire, physiotherapists and spokesmen. I have 0 of the former and 3 of the latter.

[tofra]

@kryszcztov: If you reduce your youth investment once, it takes much longer before it goes up again.
@Tubby: improving your YP takes a lot of time. From solid to excellent took a whole season for me. And I doubt if you get to passable with only 10k investment. Maybe it will, but higher as passable isn't possible with 10k investment

[Socrates]

I won't hire anything more than what I have now (3 GK coaches and 1 assistant coach) before next season starts. I just have to releguate and get ready for Season 30.

So, should I PIC my last 2 league matches ? That could ensure a higher team spirit, but is it kept over the off-season ? Can I PIC or MOTS as many matches as I want ?

Is there any good reason to finish 7th in my league, since it means releguation ? I'm playing the other loser for the last game, and I'm wondering if I should MOTS this one, while PIC tomorrow's match.

I've read (on Hattrick France) that investing 10k in the youth squad makes it twice longer to reach a certain level, and investing 5k makes it 4 times as long (with also a maximum level for 10k and 5k). And that at 20k, a starting team (at 'poor') has to wait 27 weeks only before it reaches 'excellent' (8), and just 10 weeks for 'solid' (7). Do you confirm all of this ? If so, that could mean an excellent youth academy around Season 31, Week 6 (somewhere in late January)... if I find the money !

[socralynnek]

You can PIC and MOTS as often as you want.
Team Spirit gets set to calm before the new season starts, so nothing can be saved.

It is long ago but was it really only ten weeks to solid?
But I remember it was a full season afterwards to reach excellent.

If you finish on place 7, you start the new season with a home game, otherwise it doesn't matter much (if you win the last match your fans are happier between the seasons)

[tofra]

@krysztov: My opinion in this is, that if it's hard to free up money (and you are new, so you could better invest it in other things) then don't invest at all for the YP. I've been playing hattrick for 2,5 season, my YP is just three weeks on excellent, and i've only sold one guy for 10K. So if I look at that, it's a waist of money. Also looking at the current market values, it almost half the price you get for a YP now then is was 2 seasons ago.
Just a simple calculation: from solid to excellent took me one whole season, meaning 16x20k=320k. And that's a lot of money.

[Socrates]

Yeah but I want to try that. Last night I read on a French forum that the youth squad strategy was recommended, even for newbies, and it was a post from a few months ago only. That's where I saw the figures. And the guy said that, with a little luck, we could pull off a very good youngster in the first weeks following the 'excellent' status, and sell him for 1 M€, making the business on the track already (27 weeks at 20k makes it 540k).

Tonight I lost 6-0. :( Yup, I PICed it, but that still is a louzy result. Weird that my young keeper wasn't able to save some balls at least... I think I also was unlucky, given the summary of the match (shots on the bar, etc...).

But my team spirit is now 2 levels up, I hope until next Saturday, where I will MOTS (no drawback to do so). With that, I hope to grab the 7th place, so as to play at home for Match 1 next season. Still, I find it weird that the mood in the team (not the confidence, but the mood = spirit) is higher after a match where they were told to keep some forces for later, ending in a 0-6 loss... [crazyeye] I for one would blame the coach ! :D

[Dell19]

If I restarted hattrick I doubt I would invest in the youth academy for a couple of seasons since it is more of a luxery than a neccessity. With my team I still invest in youth players:

- since it theoretically helps out the U20 and national teams as it increases the chances of star players being pulled.
- There is a sell on fee when old youth pulls are sold so a player that was sold for less than 50k might net another 50k when sold on.
- That if everyone stopped investing then youth prices would go through the roof and pulling players helps to keep people training players which in turn feeds deflation*.

* Now that prices have dropped it would be even more annoying for them to bounce back up to old levels since people who sold players now would be screwed.

[Socrates]

Hmmm... Read your post again, Dell, and I figured out something : the little money that you get for being the mother club when old youth pulls are sold... can be huge !!! :D As I see it, each time a transfer is done, the mother club gets 2% of the transfer. In my head, since I'm dealing with low prices, this was ridiculous (1k or 2k at best). But the youth pull will live his life, and hopefully become a star, making the 2% huge a few seasons later ! [goodjob] The only downside is that, by that time, you hopefully deal with higher prices, and so that "huge" money doesn't look like as big as first thought. In this regard, it may help to start investing in the youth squad right away. [thumbsup]

Anyway, I'm posting because I made a deal tonight, and maybe you can tell me if I made a good deal (and Mistfit may tell me if I made an absolute steal (don't think so, though ;) )). Here is the guy :

quote:Franz-Josef Daucher (64767808)
32 years, weak form, healthy
A pleasant guy who is balanced and honest.
Has weak experience and weak leadership abilities.

Nationality: Deutschland
Total Skill Index (TSI): 110
Wage: 720 €/week including 20% Bonus
Owner: Krys Olympic
Warnings: 0
Injuries: Healthy


Stamina: wretched Goalkeeping: wretched
Playmaking: solid Passing: wretched
Winger: inadequate Defending: poor
Scoring: wretched Set Pieces: magnificent

Career Goals: 21
Career Hattricks: 1
League goals this season: 2
Cup goals this season: 0
This is my first foreigner, hehe. I bought him for 6k only, there was only one other bidder, who disappeared after bidding twice, I think. This was around 1am tonight. My current midfield is very low, and so he will be helpful for a season or two at least. The plan was of course to get that high set piece skill. :D I think that'll do for D.VIII. The only problem is his stamina, but it will get better soon, as I plan to train stamina twice during the off-season.

Trivia about this guy :
As you can see, he did 1 hat trick in his career, and I checked, it happened... on July 19, ie. less than 1 week ago, for the friendly !! [groucho] He scored a normal goal, then a penalty, and since that match was played with cup rules, he scored a free kick in the extra-time. And actually, he was the only scorer for the previous team and thus ensured a win for them ! The irony is to be found at the bottom of the page : he was the disappointment for the team ! [lol] Gimme disappointment !!

[socralynnek]

wretched Stamina with solid PM is indeed funny. Keep in mind that players in that age can now lose skill and if they lose skill it can be quite drastic (some levels at once is atm still possible)

Why i am writing "atm"? From next season on, older players will, instead of losing skills totally randomly but then drastic, lose skills more regularly but then not that drastic.

I don't know about the set pieces skill loss.

But since you are looking for short term helps, older guys (29 or older) are not that bad when they have some experience (maybe inadequate or more), then they are a big help until they lose skill.

[Socrates]

Wretched stamina is indeed "funny", but I had that in mind when bidding. I was not putting more than 15k in that player anyway, and I think 6k was quite a nice bargain, uh ? In 3 weeks he'll be better in stamina (though not that good), enough for my future series, I hope. The problem is my players' form, but that should slowly improve throughout the season.

I prefer that they lose their skills bit by bit, there is no bad surprise that way, so I welcome the change.

It seems that the loss in set pieces is very slow, but I'm not sure. I'm quite convinced that a 50 year-old guy can still score a free kick... ;)

I'm seeing mid-term with this guy. He should help me to get away from D.VIII, but then I think he'll be obsolete. I'm expecting a lot of goals from him against weak teams, especially on free kick.

[Socrates]

Economic update. My youth academy has just reached 'inadequate', as promised. I shouldn't lose much money this week, once I get the money from this weekend's match at home, but I'm still reluctant to use it wildly on buying more players, since I won't sell my goalie before some time and will carry on the 20k investment. Everything goes according to plan. :)

Question : Should I wait for the youth academy to reach 'passable' (in 3 weeks' time) before promoting yougsters ? Losing another 3*2k in 3 weeks doesn't sound appealing to me...

[socralynnek]

if you can resist to push that button then wait until the new season starts.
At the beginning of the season you might want to pull keepers as 17yo keepers with inadequate skill might sell at the beginning of the season.

[Socrates]

I won my 1st league match yesterday !!! [goodjob] I defeated the 7th team in my series 4-2, and thus grabbed the 7th place at the very end of the season. :D This will allow me to play at home on Day 1 next season, but I don't know the other consequences with regards to relegation.

My magnificent set pieces taker, Franz-Josef Daucher, was the spotlight player (not the best) : he scored on a free kick (like asked to do [thumbsup] ), then failed to score a penatly, then missed an opportunity due to feeble scoring ability, and eventually scored on a 2nd penalty. From the stars and the ratings we both get, it seems I was lucky, even if a magnificent set pieces ability isn't taken into account in either stars or ratings.

This is good for morale, good for the future. And I'm also happy to have thought a lot about this match, against a team which played exactly as expected (regarding his former matches). Two victories this week, hehe. [cool]

[socralynnek]

you'll lose 10% of your fans because of the relegation, but if you win games, they come again very fast in your league level..

When I joined I was in a similar situation than you, having ateam in 8th place, a few weeks before the season ends. But because of that, I was ready for the game when the first real season started and almost promoted.

So don't be too worried about the fan loss.

[Socrates]

[bump]

Today I won my first Cup match, but got me another injury, and so I really think it's time I did something to counter that. Would 1 physio be enough to counter injuries at a bearable level ? I don't have much money to spend on that at the moment... Do you also think I should hire 1 spokesperson right now, for Division VIII ?

As for doctors, I think I should forget them and buy me a few more players, do you agree with that ? Or should I hire 1 doctor and keep him all the time, since I have injuries all the time ? Buying new players would mean I have better players, so that's tempting, but again, I have so little money.

Today I PICed my Cup match, and my TS raised by 2 levels, which is good because on Saturday, for my first League match, I'm playing against the best team of my league (and should logically lose). Do you think it's good to MOTS against him ? The situation is simple : there are 2 strong teams in my league, 1 other which is about my strength, and the 4 last shouldn't be a problem. The next 2 League matches are easy ones, and my 2nd Cup match is so strong that I will PIC it anyway. So is MOTSing on Saturday a bad thing, since I'd need to win in order to have a chance to promote (only the 1st one team promotes) ? Also, buying new players would mean a stronger team, ie. a chance at winning if I MOTS...

So many questions, and just 24 hours to answer them all (before training (stamina) if possible).

[socralynnek]

the problem is: if you mots this weekend, your TS will be very low for a few weeks as you don't have a coach with much leadership (or don't you?). So, if you are sure to win the next two matches with PIC and you have a reasonable chance with MOTS, then do it.
Normally the rule is: if you are very sure to lose and probably will even lose with MOTS then PIC the match.

On the other issue: hire 1-2 spokespersons, they will pay off.
Doctors: if your players are so weak that you could get a replacement for a few thousand euros, then buy a new one.
If a trainee gets injured, hire a doctor or two:
http://www.student.ru.nl/rvanaarle/injury.php
Here you can calculate healing times if you know TSI before injury and after.

There are people saying: For each % over 90% training intensity, hire 1 physio.
I don't think it's worth it hiring 10 in your case, but maybe 1-2 would be ok.

[Socrates]

From what I read :
- MOTS : TS is halved after the match (and gets back slowly since my coach has poor LS).
- PIC : TS raises by ~2 levels after the match (and gets back quickly since...).
Today my TS jumped from 'composed' to 'content' (+2 levels). 'Content' seems to be equal to 6, on a scale from 0 to 10. So, if I MOTS on Saturday, my TS will drop to 3 = 'irritated'. Then I PIC on Wednesday, and my TS gets back to 5 = 'calm', ie. 1 level higher than normal = composed = 4. NOT ? :) After that, my next 2 league matches are rather easy and I can PIC again, I suppose (and no more cup for me). It seems this is a solid strategy, which enables me to fight against the best team of my league, at home, with an increased midfield from MOTS, and with a good TS (before it drops). Should I buy me some players (see below), I'd have a chance to win.

About the staff, OK, I will hire 1 spokesman and 1 physio for the moment, that should get me some fair results to begin with. Any link or utility to "see" the effects of hiring either ?

I agree that doctors are quite expensive for me at the moment. I'll first try to buy some cheap but good players. Today, my forward sub replaced my defender, ouch !! [crazyeye] I'm heavily engaged on the YS path, but I think that having a solid team is important as well, and that I should try to win my league. Getting further into debt could be bearable if profits from winning my league are high enough (talking about new profits VS interests here). I'm still above zero but dropping rapidly... Maybe 1 doctor can be hired until there is no more injury in my team, because it won't happen before 4 weeks (and I could still have other injuries as well in the future).

[arne1]

1 doctor seems smart to me, he clearly has the biggest effect and if you have a lot of players injured it can be worthwhile. it of course also depends on the replacement cost of theinjured players.

[socralynnek]

the normal point of TS is 4.5 (medium composed). I do think that PICing is also a percent value ( I just checked a help site and it says 33%), so you probably need both PICs to be slightly above med. composed. But you could use the cup match too for that, maybe.

I have seen a research on sponsor money which says that between 151 to 782 fans you get most money with 1 spokesperson, below hire 0 spokespersons.

I have seen no research for physios, but if you are training at 100% you should hire 1 or 2. I have 10 but least injuries I had when I had 5.

[Tubby Rower]

quote:I have seen a research on sponsor money which says that between 151 to 782 fans you get most money with 1 spokesperson, below hire 0 spokespersons.That research doesn't account for the increased number of new supporters that come with spokesmen. It's only for the income from the sponsors. I would hire at least 1 spokesperson

[socralynnek]

Xeah, that's true, wanted to write it in my post, but forgot it.

[Socrates]

My first youth pull at passable level (I'm now pulling every week) :
quote:Dominique Carlier (128467694)
19 years, passable form, healthy
A sympathetic guy who is balanced and honest.
Has disastrous experience and solid leadership abilities.

Nationality: France
Total Skill Index (TSI): 40
Wage: 500 €/week
Owner: Krys Olympic
Warnings: 0
Injuries: Healthy


Stamina: weak Goalkeeping: disastrous
Playmaking: poor Passing: poor
Winger: poor Defending: wretched
Scoring: weak Set Pieces: weak

Career Goals: 0
Career Hattricks: 0
League goals this season: 0
Cup goals this season: 0
Well, the usual junk, I suppose. He was ready to replace someone in my team, because I had no other outfield sub tonight. [mischief] Do you think I could get 1k or 2k out of him on the market ? No ? OK.

Otherwise I have to protect this player of mine :
quote:Franz-Josef Daucher (64767808)
33 years, weak form, healthy
A pleasant guy who is balanced and honest.
Has inadequate experience and weak leadership abilities.

Nationality: Deutschland
Total Skill Index (TSI): 100
Wage: 696 €/week including 20% Bonus
Owner: Krys Olympic
Warnings: 0
Injuries: Healthy


Stamina: inadequate Goalkeeping: wretched
Playmaking: solid Passing: wretched
Winger: weak Defending: poor
Scoring: wretched Set Pieces: magnificent

Career Goals: 25
Career Hattricks: 1
League goals this season: 1
Cup goals this season: 1
Already 2 goals in 2 matches (Cup and League). My only source of real pride so far. I made a real bargain with him (6k).

[socralynnek]

That guy (Carlier) is a semi-clown.

But I don't know whether people are paying for this.

Sure, a person for SP who even helps with his A-Skill is a good bargain!

[Socrates]

I ended up keeping Carlier for my Cup match (because of injuries), and fired him afterwards. I'll probably do so each time I get a crappy player with the youth squad (ie. all the time ;) ). The only comparable players which I saw could sell on the market were sold at huge lumps of money : there were probably cheaters out there (same country). I think I'll just fire any player not having "inadequate" in at least keeper, defending, playmaking, winger or scoring, except if he has something very special. Carlier, a semi-clown ? Not sure what you mean, he's just the usual cool guy...

I'm available for friendlies every Wednesday until the CDZ Cup starts again. I'd prefer to play against you CDZers of course. :) Socralynnek challenged me, but sz_matyas was quicker than me, so I accepted Aggie's proposal today, thanks mate ! [goodjob] I hope your D.IX in NL is well rated, because my D.VIII isn't. [blush2]

BTW, to sum it up, friendlies are there "just" for :
- players' form ;
- players' training ;
- formation routine ;
- little money ;
- little experience.
Anything else ? The only drawback is injury, right ? There's no real need to search victory (except for personal pride and to see how you progress of course) nor to score goals (except a little more experience) ? If that's true, shouldn't I try to challenge the biggest team I can find (more money) ? Of course the biggest teams shouldn't challenge a crappy team like mine... ;)

[Shabbaman]

You should report any cheater you spot.

[Tubby Rower]

The friendly reasons you listed are pretty much it. Injuries have an equal chance, but the amount you gain in training revenue counteracts that drawback.

[Socrates]

Yeah, I listed those reasons for the sake of it, and so as to see if there was any incentive to win friendlies (other than out-of-game feelings). Somewhere I read that a player who scores during a match gets better chance to increase his XP than a player who doesn't score. Other than that, I don't see any reason to win friendlies, but of course, if there is a possibility to win, I'll take it. :)

Shabba, OK, I'll report weird trades in the future, I just have to read again how to do it. But I won't lose my time doing it on purpose, only if I stumble upon that. I'm not one of those who like to tell the police when it's none of my business.

[Tubby Rower]

actually on the XP thing.... if their name is mentioned during play, they'll get 1 "unit" of XP (see below for different matchs' XP units). If their name wasn't mentioned they have a 1/3 chance of getting 3 units of XP. So even non-mentioned support players increase in experience over time.

[u]units </u>
0.1 XP for friendlies
0.2 XP for international friendlies
1 XP for league matches
2 XP for cup matches
10 XP for National team matches (everyone gets 10 XP)

a player needs 28 XP to get a pop to the next XP level (disatrous to wretched, wretched to poor, etc). So you can figure out a player that is always mentioned easier than you can with a non-mentioned player, but the non-mentioned player has the potential to pop quicker.

As for cheaters... I don't actively hunt them either, but they DO effect you whether you realize it or not.

EDIT:: forgot the linkie thingie (http://www.manager.brygge.dk/Hattrick/experience.htm) for the experience stuff.

[Socrates]

Thanks Tubby, that's some pretty interesting info you have there. [thumbsup] I only had parcelar info on the subject. So, if I understand it well, a player who is mentioned in the report (updated) does get the standard amount of XP points, but doesn't trigger the double/triple-point lottery, right ? I find it weird that a player who scores a goal could get less XP points than a dude who is never mentioned (with some hard luck), so I'm not that fond of the system, but then again, a guy like Makelele (who is back in the French team again [goodjob] ) isn't one to be under the spotlights while still being a monster in defensive midfield... I suppose HO! can keep track of that, not ?

[Shabbaman]

quote:Originally posted by kryszcztov

Shabba, OK, I'll report weird trades in the future, I just have to read again how to do it. But I won't lose my time doing it on purpose, only if I stumble upon that. I'm not one of those who like to tell the police when it's none of my business.


It is your business, if someone cheats you're the one being disadvantaged. But it's really easy, just follow the link in the transfer search screen.

[Tubby Rower]

quote:. So, if I understand it well, a player who is mentioned in the report (updated) does get the standard amount of XP points, but doesn't trigger the double/triple-point lottery, right ?correct.

quote:... I suppose HO! can keep track of that, not ?XP.. nope. If you have a guy that's at least inadequate XP then you can find out how many points he has based on that table in the link I provided a few posts up. Other than that, just play your high leadership guys (&gt; inadequate, but preferrably solid) in high experience games (cup, league, inter. friendlies, then normal friendlies in that order) if you have to limit them to one game a week. Otherwise play them every game.

[Socrates]

quote:Originally posted by Shabbaman

It is your business, if someone cheats you're the one being disadvantaged. But it's really easy, just follow the link in the transfer search screen.

I understand that. But in RL, I don't mind people cheating, even if I'm disadvantaged, I'm more keen to let them do their business. [blush2] And Hattrick looks more like RL than a 1v1 PBEM where your opponent cheats, the consequences are much lower...

[Socrates]

I am pleased to announce (to the entire world) that both my GKs popped to solid last night. :) This is my first main-skill popping, and HO! was right about it.

Question : Should I hire more GK coaches now ? Currently I have 3 (and 1 assistant coach). Hiring more staff will lead me into debt even quicker, but if it can bring me more money faster when I sell my 2nd GK, why not ? So ? Oh, and my coach is passable, and both my GKs are 19 yo.

[bed_head7]

As you are in debt, you probably should wait a while before hiring more coaches. Each additional coach has less of an effect, so hiring one or two more is unlikely to shave any time off of training up another level or even two. How far are you planning on training them?

[Socrates]

In fact I'm still not in debt (thanks to playing 2 Cup matches !), but I'm currently at -30k on away weeks and -10k on home weeks (roughly). So I should hit zero in a matter of 2 or 3 weeks.

I haven't decided at what level I will sell my 2nd GK (I plan to keep my 1st GK for my A squad if I'm not short on money). HO! tells me I'll reach excellent for both of them 9 weeks later. It seems that 19 yo adds 2 weeks for each level, which makes it 5+2=7 weeks. So maybe I'd take it down from 9 to 7 weeks with 8 or 9 GK coaches instead of 3 ? I'm not experienced enough to see if it's worth it, ie. if the time I win outsets the money I lose first.


EDIT : HO! tells me it's 7 weeks indeed with 9 GK coaches, but 8 weeks with 4 to 8 GK coaches. So losing 1,500 € more per week wins me 1 week per level this year, losing 9,000 € more per week wins me 2 weeks per level this year. Basically it's about going more into debt to get the money quicker (or more money after the same amount of time).

[Tubby Rower]

FWIW... with a solid-skilled coach and 5 GK coaches, pops are ~5 weeks apart. I would do my best to train at least to Formidable before selling unless you have to. Don't worry about debt. Just don't get &gt; 150k IMO. I've been as far as 200k in the hole for 1 week only and the interest costs are ~10k. You'll start to even out once you have accumulated supporters. I'm making a small profit over a home-away 2 week time span and have 697 supporters.

The reason I picked formidable is that is where the price per level starts to level out. from Excellent -&gt; formidable = +480k from formidable to outstanding = + 510k and so on until you reach the really high levels where it actually starts decreasing. By training to formidable, you can buy another excellent GK to train back up to formidable.

[Socrates]

Noted about formidable being an important level in training. Here is a quick and rough analysis I've just made. Please tell me if it's quite correct and if my conclusion makes sense.

Today I have the choice to hire 6 more GK coaches, so as to have 9 (I have 3 at the moment). According to HO!, I should expect my next pop for both GKs (they're roughly at the same decimal, give or take 1 week at most), in 9 weeks. That'd be to go from solid to excellent, at 19 yo, at 100%, with a passable trainer. Still according to HO!, this would be reduced to 7 weeks if I hired those 6 extra coaches. I will get into debt within 2 weeks roughly. Now here comes the calculation.

1. I don't hire them.
If I sell 1 GK at excellent, I'll get around 300k in 9 weeks.

2. I hire them.
I'll get the 300k in 7 weeks. But during those 7 weeks, I'll pay 63k more in coaches' wages. Add some interest on that, let's say 17k, so that makes it 80k in 7 weeks. So in the end, I'll get 220k in 7 weeks.

If I don't hire them, I get an extra 80k in 2 weeks, ie. 40k per week. The average income from training at this level is : (300-100)/8 = 25k (roughly). Well, it seems I get more money by NOT hiring them (40k to 25k per week). The upside for option 2 is that I can re-invest the money quicker (and also stop the debt), which means less difference overall. Plus, I haven't computed the training to formidable, which should be more complex : trainees ageing (leading to a more slowly training), more debt, less improvement in my team (results), etc...

So ? Any clue ?

[Tubby Rower]

I would hire some so that you have at least 5. Any more than that I think that it doesn't help as much. Something that you didn't include in your calculation is the fact that other trainee that will pop to excellent in 2 less weeks. Basically getting 4 or more off of the total time to get to formidable.

Boy am I glad that I got a solid trainer. The debt load is finally gone, but I can count on 5 weeks between pops with 5 GK coaches. Remember krys, debt isn't too bad. and when you get those guys to pop to excellent. It might be worth it to find a 17 yo (it'll be week 10 or 12 by then so they should be reasonable) solid and train him for a couple levels.

Also, formidable keepers and outstanding keepers have dropped their price recently. But excellents haven't. So either everyone is dumping dead weight or prices will be coming down.

[Socrates]

Hmmm... Having 5 GK coaches will still get me 1 week off for excellent, could be a good compromise. You're right that the choice isn't only between 3 and 9 GK coaches, because the game engine runs decimals, and so 8 coaches is almost as good as 9 but much less expensive (even though it seems that with 8, I don't pop to excellent in 7 weeks, but up to formidable ?...).

As for the other trainee, I'd like to keep him as long as I'm training GKs. So I'll have to buy me another 2nd trainee when I sell my current 2nd trainee. Could be on Week 11 then, if I sell him excellent. That'd be around 300k (which is about the price of the YS over a season), do you think I'd get a solid 17 yo trainee with that ? What's the current price for such a guy ?

This is if I don't have luck in the YS game of course. [groucho] But anyway, I traded a solid coach for the YS, knowing this would be a heavier investment... I think I shouldn't hope for being #1 in my Division then, but I'll try to do my best on the tactical level.

[Tubby Rower]

well the price right now for a 17yo solid will be high. But at the end of the season they should start coming down to what a 18yo solid is now. And the idea of keeping a GK for the duration isn't an idea that I would hold on to too tightly. Unless you are doing a "training for keeps" program. Even then I would sell him soon and get a younger player of almost equivalent skill since he'll train quicker. After 20yo, training becomes insanely inefficient

[Socrates]

Yes, you are right that after 20 yo, training is rather inefficient. Maybe I could sell him on the 2nd wave ? Ie. first sell my B keeper, buy a new B keeper (a 17 yo solid), and then sell both keepers (the B one at formidable, the A one at... something above). This way I combine sales and results, since the price increase per level is roughly the same for a few levels above formidable (no real incentive to buy a young GK, except for the age, but up to 20-21 yo, it should work out OK).

Thanks Tubby, I'm gonna hire an additional 2 GK coaches now, and aim at formidable for the 1st sale. :)

[Socrates]

OK, I have more questions. First, the facts :
- I lost 1 week of training, since I wasn't unable to correctly field my friendly last Wednesday. I still had my other GK fielded last Saturday, but I want to sell the "Wednesday" one (he's a bit worse in personal qualities). Anyway, this would have been a waste of GK training, so I trained stamina again ! [crazyeye] My general stamina is at an all time high, but my general form is severely dropping.
- I've just reached solid level for my youth squad, as expected !! [party] 17 weeks to go before excellent level, which brings me to... Season 31, Day 6. (red-bolded for future reference)
- I'm about to reach zero in my finances. Depends if Kingreno brings enough money next Wednesday, in which case it might be delayed for another 1 or 2 weeks.

Now to the corresponding questions :
- My SP-guy is at disastrous form. [cry] Should I field him on Saturdays, so as to aim at best scorer of the division ? I'm playing against 2 weak teams next, and then the same 2 teams afterwards (mirror fixture).
- What should I promote each week : a GK or an outfield player ? I'm training GK, I badly need money, but my players also suck (but it's not important until next season now).
- Should I try to sell some players which aren't mono-caracteristic, so as to buy some cheaper, mono-carac players, earning me a bit of cash ?

[bed_head7]

Disastrous form will mean he essentially does nothing at all as far as his normal abilities. I have heard differing accounts on whether form has any impact set piece ability, so it is tough to answer for sure. But if you can win without a problem while still having your SP guy in disastrous form, you might as well go for it and hope to get lucky. He certainly cannot score if not on the pitch, and it is fun to win the award at the end of the season. But if you are in danger of losing, and playing a better player in place of the SP guy might help, I would recommend to sit the SP guy in leauge until his form improves from playing in friendlies.

I would promote a GK still. You might get yourself a decent trainee. Also, the market for GKs is somewhat more stable, it seems. Rather, you will not make a fortune off of a keeper ever, but you also seem to have a better shot at getting something that is sellable.

What sort of players are you talking about? It is tough to answer this question without any specifics.

[Socrates]

quote:Originally posted by bed_head7

I would promote a GK still. You might get yourself a decent trainee. Also, the market for GKs is somewhat more stable, it seems. Rather, you will not make a fortune off of a keeper ever, but you also seem to have a better shot at getting something that is sellable.

If I get a decent GK trainee, do you think I should keep it for my training and thus sell one of my 2 current GKs for quick money, or were you thinking of a sellable trainee (to make quick money too, but less (because the other one is better)) ? I'm asking because Tubby told me that formidable level is the important threshold as far as weekly profit is concerned, and I'm still 1 whole season before that.

quote:What sort of players are you talking about? It is tough to answer this question without any specifics.

Talking about stuff (!) which has inadequate/passable in, say, defending and scoring. That kind of stuff. Or inadequate/passable defending and playmaking when I know the guy will only play in defense.

[bed_head7]

Well, Tubby is correct about training to formidable and beyond being where the best weekly profit levels lie. But if you are still in debt or in danger of going in to debt and you won't have anyone else to sell for awhile, selling your 2nd trainee at excellent is not a bad idea. I was not sure exactly where your feelings lie, but if you pull a keeper, it seems like you are more likely to get a player that you can put on the market right away and at least get a bit of cash for. And, if you did need cash in the near future, you might pull a good player for you to train yourself, once you have sold your backup trainee.

I would probably hold on to the guys you have now. It is nice to have a guy who can play two positions at your stage, as injuries can be a problem (as I know you know) and you can always sub a guy with passable defending and playmaking in as a defensive PM if one of your regular IMs goes down. The money you'll get for a guy like that, minus transfer fees, won't be too much more than a guy with just one skill.

[Socrates]

Not sure if I did the right thing : my 2nd keeper (just popped to solid, weak form, 19 yo, 2800 TSI) has just been sold at 86,000 €, which netted me with 76,609 €. Only. [blush2] I put him on the market at zero though, not sure if it was the right decision too...

Since I bought him at 33,000 €, and kept him for about 64 days (ie. 9 weeks), I earned about 4845.44 € per week training him. [blush2] There were 3 weeks of stamina training there, so that means in fact that each training week earned me about 7268.17 €. [hmm] Is that a good figure ?

So now I'm left with a bit of money, and won't go into debt before some time (if I have luck with the YS, I might never get into debt !). What should I do ? Would it be good to get to 9 GK coaches, so that my 1st keeper (19 yo, very low solid) gets faster to formidable, and so that my 2nd keeper (17 yo, low inadequate) blitzes through those low levels (passable, solid...) ? What could I do else, apart from keeping money to stay out of debt ? I think I need to make some investment...

[sz_matyas]

I would advise against going to 9GK coaches, seeing as this will add several thousand a week and you are not making that much in training per week anyway. As far as investment, the 17 yr old should just be a placeholder trainee for you until you are ready to buy a better one. A reasonable idea might be to search the wire for a new player, so that they have part of the training already done. I personally look for 18yr old solids, as they can still train easily at 19, but are reasonably priced at ~$110,000.
This would require going into debt, so maybe look for some mid-passable 17/18 yr olds that you can train a couple levels and sell at a profit to buy good trainees. (Or you can take the route I did and be ~$150K in debt early, but I should have ~$1M in assets to spend by the end of the season)
High level training you probably want $60K/week, low level (you/me now) try for $20-$30K (passable to excellent training range), beginer that wasn't a very good figure, but it was acceptable, just keep trying to make more.

[Tubby Rower]

I'll agree on not getting the 9 GK coaches. 5 should be all that you'll need.

I would also look to see if you can get at least one of your GK to at leaest formidable. It'll likely take a full season of training so you have to be patient. Last season excellent -&gt; formiddable was around + 480k €. this season it's dropped some. with a solid coach (I realize that you have a passable one) you'll be able to get 17-19 yos to pop in 5 weeks on average with 5 GK coaches. so that is ~ 80-100 € per week per trainee. Tha figure has dropped slightly but is still a goal for me.

After one of my trainees pop to formiddable, I'll be buying a solid GK and train for 2-3 levels. and then I'll switch to forward training keeping my then brilliant/magnificent GK.

[Socrates]

quote:Originally posted by kryszcztov

my 2nd keeper (just popped to solid, weak form, 19 yo, 2800 TSI) has just been sold at 86,000 €, which netted me with 76,609 €

He has just been sold to another team already, at 94,000 €, from a German team (that bought it to me) to a Czech team. He doesn't seem to have played in the meantime, but he's listed with much more TSI than the one he had at the time of the 2nd transfer. And we're Thursday. [hmm] Anyway, the German guy shouldn't have made any money there (maybe a loss), but I myself got a nice 1,880 € in the process. I hope he gets sold every week now. Or trained a little. ;)

[Socrates]

My primary GK has eventually reached formidable status !! :) The secondary GK reached solid recently. I wonder if I should sell the formidable one now or not. The thing is, my defense will suck if I only have a solid GK for league matches, but I could buy some good forwards now. I'd really like to make a coup this season, and try to get to the first place. There is one team clearly ahead of me, but he is more into constant buying and selling ; 2 other teams are about my level, one I beat once last season, the other one just coming down from D.VII. 2 other teams are weaker than me, but I had trouble with both. The last 2 teams are sleeping teams.

Should this be a moment to get an entirely new team, or just buy 2 or 3 key players, or should I just keep the same team for the moment ? My formidable GK will turn 20 this weekend.

[Tubby Rower]

I wouldn't sell now since team's don't have income, they are likely not looking.

formiddable GK's will only net you ~800k. After buying a new trainee, you will likely be able to only get a couple of players if not only 1. I would look at replacing outfielders by 2-3 levels.

How old is your form. GK? if he's only 18, keep him and get him up to outstanding. you'd likely also be able to improve your coach to a solid trainer.

[Socrates]

800k ?? TC tells me it's more 400k to 500k... [blush2]

As said in my post, my formidable GK is 19, and will turn 20 next week. My coach is passable with wretched leadership (down from poor after one season) ; I think I should just keep him for the season, as I continue to train GKs.

Since my coach is defence-minded and since I always have a better defense than midfield and attack, I think I should start switching to 3-5-2 and buy some decent strikers. And also one more IM, as mine are used to getting injured or booked or in bad form. :( Maybe a better SP for one of them, or I'll just keep my German magnificent-SP solid-PM IM.

Long term : I'm thinking of training wingers ; along with 3-5-2 and 4-5-1, this should be worth it (only 1 very good CD in 3-5-2 then).

[Tubby Rower]

maybe 800k was a bit optimistic, but I was thinking of what I last sold a formidable GK at. Looking at HTPE, the range is from 350k to 625k with 475k average. All of these GK's were sold during week 15 or week 16. These prices are deflated significantly. I honestly believe that people are desperate for money and had the starting bid low and since there aren't a lot of people there shopping, a lot of cheap GK's are being sold. I would at least wait until after the first league match since that is when money will start flowing again.

From what I've gathered, if you have to sell him and list him @ 0 then you'll get those low prices. But if you list him at say 600k, you will likely get that.

With the market collapse, decent forwards are cheap. A formidable scorer is averaging 335k. add in passable passing to him and you add 150k to his price tag. Formidable PM's are ~ 230k with passable passing doubling the price.

Outstanding PM's are ~ 330k.

I would recommend PM's over forwards. If you are competitive in you league (fairly even with the other teams), then a boost in your midfield will win those close matches.

Here is my priority as to purchases. (and it depends on current standing with respect to your leaguemates)

midfield
Forward
midfield
defenders or wingers

In my development, I purchased in this order (I believe). Now I have 2 formidable PM midfielders, an outstanding scoring forward, and an excellent winger (inad scoring). my defense has been able to do decent enough that I haven't had to worry about it and I only have a few solid defenders.

[Socrates]

OK, I'll follow your advice and wait for the first league match to be played before selling him. It'll be the first time I list a player at something else than 0 euro, another advice I'll keep in mind.

As for my league mates, well, I start with the team I beat once this season (but not twice), and this match will be fairly even if I keep the same team. The top team (2nd this season) is better in attack than in defence. What I clearly missed last season was scoring more goals ; this has to do with my 4-5-1, so I need good forwards if I switch to 3-5-2 (but I doubt I'll keep the same formation for every match).

One thing I wonder if whether I should play my formidable GK for the next matches or not, since it seems the market doesn't "recognize" decimal values : wouldn't it be a waste to get the GK to 9.3 instead of 9.0 ? I could buy the next GK trainee now and play him as 2nd keeper, while keeping the formidable one on the bench for 2 weeks.

[Tubby Rower]

If you can find a good trainee for a cheap price, yes get him and put him in as your second trainee. If not, just keep training your formidable one, since if he doesn't sell for an acceptable value, keep training to outstanding.

Since you don't play Corsica until week 6, you have some time to get your new outfielders.

[Tubby Rower]

Since I was looking into some of your league-mates I decided to check out your cup opponent. Here is the comparison from the last 5 non-friendly matches. It looks like his wing attacks are where he focuses his strength. You'll likely lose the midfield so PIC it and play CA especially if you have some good passers that you can field. 4-4-2 would be what I do so as to get as much possession as possible while allowing for enough defenese and attack to be there to help score some goals.

http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/Tubby Rower/2006121173726_Image4.gif
8.34KB

[Socrates]

A very nice youth pull today :

quote:Kévin Gonnot (143840423)
19 years, passable form, healthy
A pleasant guy who is balanced and honest.
Has disastrous experience and disastrous leadership abilities.

Nationality: France
Total Skill Index (TSI): 2 520
Wage: 2 300 €/week
Owner: Krys Olympic
Warnings: 0
Injuries: Healthy


Stamina: wretched Goalkeeping: passable
Playmaking: disastrous Passing: disastrous
Winger: disastrous Defending: disastrous
Scoring: wretched Set Pieces: inadequate

Career Goals: 0
Career Hattricks: 0
League goals this season: 0
Cup goals this season: 0
Keeper tool says he's between 6.68 and 6.85 (though he is wretched in 2 skills). He should get to solid in 2 weeks.

I think I found my 2nd trainee and can now sell my formidable GK. :) Do you agree with that ? Question : should I still play my formidable GK tonight, while I'm waiting for him to be sold or not ? I have an important match tonight, against one of the teams of my level, and I'd really want to win it, but with a weaker GK, it could prove more difficult. Or should I try to buy a very good IM before tonight ? Or a very good FW ?

[Tubby Rower]

yes use your form. GK. And try to buy the IM.

[Socrates]

[groucho]

Just sold Camille Dartois, my formidable GK which I had bought last summer. There was only one bidder (he bid during the last hour), who got it for the asked price, ie. 620,000 €. I had first thought of selling at 600,000 €, like Tubby advised, but then thought that 20k more would somehow be more comfy (because 20 is only at 1/5 from 100 [lol] ). So all in all, I got 576,600 €, and this is huge, and this is great, and I wanna go shopping now. [tongue]

Waoh, that much money... oh my head... [crazyeye]

[Socrates]

Grrr... those players I want are expensive. [mischief] I'm currently trying to get a great IM and a good FW (but I won't search the latter before finding the former).

About the IM :
Is passing the best secondary skill overall ? How does it influence the game ? Should I get a formidable-PM, passable-passing or an outstanding-PM, poor-passing dude ? Or should I get 2 formidable-PM, poor-passing dudes, along with a FW ?

[Tubby Rower]

I would either go for the formid. PM-passable passing guy or 2 formidable PM-poor passing. but that's just me. From what I've seen upgrading only one player doesn't have much effect. So I would lean towards the dual formid. PM with poor passing. Take your time and don't get into bidding wars. Search at different times of the day and only pay a certain amount (95% of the TC for them). Sometimes you get lucky and get some players for cheaper prices than you could have otherwise. If you aren't in a hurry that makes it easier to let that bidding war go.

in my opinion you are very smart not to worry about the forwards until you have the midfield up to snuff.

[Socrates]

I bought me my IM !!! :D I followed Tubby's advice (thanks a lot), didn't engage in stupid bidding wars, etc... And I only clicked ONCE on the bidding button on the whole, the winning one. :) Cool. Here he is, he comes from a Bolivian team :

quote:Florea Negulescu (12568147)
30 years, poor form, healthy
A popular guy who is calm and dishonest.
Has passable experience and weak leadership abilities.

Speciality: Quick

Nationality: România
Total Skill Index (TSI): 3 570
Wage: 2 760 €/week including 20% Bonus
Owner: Krys Olympic
Warnings: 0
Injuries: Healthy


Stamina: solid Goalkeeping: disastrous
Playmaking: outstanding Passing: passable
Winger: passable Defending: poor
Scoring: weak Set Pieces: wretched

Career Goals: 29
Career Hattricks: 0
League goals this season: 0
Cup goals this season: 0
Bought it for 378k. TC showed players between 410k and 530k, so I'm quite satisfied. I just hope he doesn't lose his skill during this season.

I'll still have 266k in cash next Saturday. Time to search for a FW, I believe, and maybe another IM after that, if I have enough money. I'll also try to sell some secondary players, I don't want to have more than 17-18 players in my team, it's useless when you train GKs.

[Socrates]

And now I have a new forward !!

quote:Patrik Börjesson (17439593)
30 years, weak form, healthy
A pleasant guy who is calm and dishonest.
Has passable experience and inadequate leadership abilities.

Nationality: Sverige
Total Skill Index (TSI): 2 240
Wage: 1 200 €/week including 20% Bonus
Owner: Krys Olympic
Warnings: 0
Injuries: Healthy


Stamina: excellent Goalkeeping: disastrous
Playmaking: passable Passing: inadequate
Winger: poor Defending: inadequate
Scoring: excellent Set Pieces: passable

Career Goals: 47
Career Hattricks: 2
League goals this season: 0
Cup goals this season: 0
Got him for 200k (only bidder), which I think is a decent price. TC showed a few players with slightly lower prices, but they were all much lower on TSI.

I'll start selling redundant players now, and I still have a bit of cash to get a decent IM maybe, though I may want to keep it until I make money every 2 weeks (until I drop the 20k per week on the YS ??). I hope to get more goals per match and thus have a shot at the 1st place, as well as getting more and more excited supporters along. :)

[Tubby Rower]

I saw this (http://www.databased.at/hattrick/x-files/pages/pages_en/sfx_trequartista_en.asp?file=sfx_trequartista) on Hattix-files. That guy looks like he kind of fits this profile. You might want to read this page

[Socrates]

Hum, yes, except he is not technical and not that good in passing. But I'm currently learning 3-5-2, and could use him and another forward that way, which will definitely boost my completely crappy attack note.

BTW, in RL such a player (at least for Zidane and Platini) is known as "Numéro 10" in France, and belong to the midfield in a way. They say such players are becoming extinct these days, which is too bad. The idea behind my 4-5-1 in Hattrick was to recreate something like the way France has been playing with Zidane. So I'll remember this page for my next purchase, thanks Tubby. [goodjob]

[Socrates]

Damnit, injuries are back, and for my midfield again. Today I got one IM injured for 4 weeks, and his replacement, my recently-purchased outstanding-PM IM, got 2 weeks. :( This sucks hard. Next time I'll do what is reasonable : not putting my best players on the bench, because I desperately need them for the league. So it's back for doctors now...

BTW, I was thinking of hiring more GK coaches (up to 9). This would save me around 2 weeks for my 2nd GK to reach formidable at the beginning of next season. Is this a good idea ? My plan is to train both GKs to formidable (should happen in a matter of 4 weeks' timespan for both), sell them, and start on training wingers. This would mean 6k less each week, ie. about 100k over a season. But then I could be able to sell 2 GKs at around 600k instead of selling one (or I delay my training of wingers). What would be best ?

[socralynnek]

Sorry about the injuries. My defender has +3 but is not neede in the next match.
If you can pay the Specialists wages, why not? Faster is faster and it will bring in the money faster.

[Tubby Rower]

I think that I remember something in the conferences about having 9 vs 5 GK coaches only added 1 week the entire trip from passable to divine. But that was with a solid coach. I guess a similar number would be applicable to a passable trainer too.

I would hire some physiotherapists if injuries are starting to crop up. They won't help your current injuries, but since I've hired 3 a while back none of my injuries have been over 2 weeks.

[Socrates]

No hard feeling against you, Ynnek, in fact I was glad you came in Paris. I'm angry at the match machine, how could it even break my replacement ?? :(

Tubby, I can see around 1 week per level in HO! Am I fooled ? But maybe I shouldn't do that, and keep my 5 GK coaches. Then I would sell my first GK at formi, then buy a new "trainee" a bit below excellent or formi level, and train him to said level while getting the other GK to formi too (and sell that one), which could take a month or so. I would end up with 2 future sales at formi, and one good GK to keep (which I'd pop) for the future, while starting on wingers. That'd be around Day 3 or 4 next season. Hopefully in D.VII. ;) I'd also like a GK with good psychology (popular and stuff) and rather young (20-22).

The problem is that I'm not flexible on money. I have -20k each week because of the YS, and to think that this could be made useless with the new YS system really pisses me off. :( I have 1 physio, which has done a nice work so far, I guess this had to happen sooner or later. I have hired 1 doctor only, I cannot afford more.

[Tubby Rower]

I thought the same, but there was some people that were pretty adamant about it. With a solid coach, it's probably something more like 1 week saved every 3-5 levels. With a passable coach it's likely more since the extra GK coaches help your trainer more. If you see a markable improvement in HO (like 1 week per level) then yes get them. but look out at the 2nd or 3rd pop to see if it's just that your GK is right on an edge or if it is a significant improvement.

[Tubby Rower]

after re-reading your post... additional comments spew forth...

drop your YS investment especially if you are going to the new system next season. your YS is 1 week behind mine and I dropped my payment to them to improve profitability.


also if you league is like mine, an excellent GK would suffice for a regular after you switch training regimes. or even an experienced solid. Hey that's exactly what I have.. young excellent and experienced solid. they both are ~ 4 *'s

[Socrates]

OK, I'll try to see if there is a real improvement with 9 GK coaches to my current 5. I'll have to think well ahead, but quick, since the next update is on Friday morning.

About YS : :( This is what I hate most in strategy games. I did what I think was best and then I'm "asked" to abort the plan before it's over. You know what I mean ? And don't you feel the same ? If I continue the YS as is, I'll lose more money if I switch to the new system when it comes around. If I abandon the investment now, I'll save much money but I will have lost much money for more than a season (never got a great pull, the results don't make it at all for the investment so far). Well done, admins ! The only solution to not lose more money or not lose the investment so far is simple : continue with the 20k every week, and ignore the new system when it comes around. [blush2] At least until I get 1 or 2 GREAT pulls...

[Tubby Rower]

well I've heard of people not getting great pulls out of an excellent YS for some time. just because I'm stopping investing doesn't mean that I won't be pulling. I'll continue to pull even if the YS gets to passable. I'll probably keep it up if it gets to inadequate. I'll be going for the new system. I didn't mind putting money into the old system until I found out that YS skillz won't carry over to teh new system.

oh well... and yes I do feel slightly slighted.... but I knew from the start that it was more of a lottery than an investment anyway

[Kemal]

Agreed, the old YS never has been strategy, it is just a side-project for managers to pursue if they like it. This unlike the new YS, which will feature more influence from managers on the final product the YS delivers. Whether it will be worth the investment is still doubtful imho, considering the current market demand.

[socralynnek]

krys, if you don't want to micromanage much, then maybe invest in the old system for 2 more seasons or such. Players by the old system get rare and it takes time til players from the new system arrive so the people keeping with the old system might get much money in the 2 seasons after the new YS comes into play.

[Tubby Rower]

ynnek, that's true, but the problem with that is that you will be 2 seasons behind everyone else. I'd rather have control over my Youth Pulls than the current lottery system. I'm all for random luck, but would prefer a little influence over a lot of dumb luck.

[Socrates]

Given how hard it is for us newcomers (100 supporters in the beginning), I don't care about the randomness, as long as it is profitable. The way they treated us is like when a rich and powerful country blackmails a poor country, it's quite annoying.

[socralynnek]

me too, and I got enough out of my YS to have no hard feelings towards stopping it next week.

When it starts and I make everything right with my first players, I might get even more rich that way.
And I want the fun.

If one stops 2 seasons later, I guess that one will earn more in that 2 seasons than lose cause of being behind.

[arne1]

As is now I am switching in two seasons.

[Socrates]

This is the player I pulled last week :

quote:Abdelbari Bouchebri (145434609)
21 years, passable form, healthy
A nasty fellow who is balanced and dishonest.
Has disastrous experience and poor leadership abilities.

Nationality: France
Total Skill Index (TSI): 4 120
Wage: 3 000 €/week
Owner: Krys Olympic
Warnings: 0
Injuries: Healthy


Stamina: wretched Goalkeeping: solid
Playmaking: wretched Passing: disastrous
Winger: disastrous Defending: disastrous
Scoring: disastrous Set Pieces: disastrous

Career Goals: 0
Career Hattricks: 0
League goals this season: 0
Cup goals this season: 0
Keeper tool says he's roughly between 7.55 and 7.75, and so I decided to keep him as a trainee. [goodjob] With the injury of my outstanding-PM IM, he currently has the highest TSI in the team. [eek]

So I decided to train this other trainee one more week instead :

quote:Kévin Gonnot (143840423)
19 years, inadequate form, healthy
A pleasant guy who is balanced and honest.
Has disastrous experience and disastrous leadership abilities.

Nationality: France
Total Skill Index (TSI): 2 600
Wage: 2 300 €/week
Owner: Krys Olympic
Warnings: 0
Injuries: Healthy


Stamina: wretched Goalkeeping: solid
Playmaking: disastrous Passing: disastrous
Winger: disastrous Defending: disastrous
Scoring: wretched Set Pieces: inadequate

Career Goals: 0
Career Hattricks: 0
League goals this season: 0
Cup goals this season: 0
As you can see, I did it so as to reach solid-GK. He's now on sale for 96,000 €.

My other trainee is this one :

quote:Maxime Maillard (131836380)
18 years, inadequate form, healthy
A controversial person who is calm and dishonest.
Has disastrous experience and wretched leadership abilities.

Nationality: France
Total Skill Index (TSI): 3 410
Wage: 2 500 €/week
Owner: Krys Olympic
Warnings: 0
Injuries: Healthy


Stamina: disastrous Goalkeeping: solid
Playmaking: disastrous Passing: disastrous
Winger: disastrous Defending: disastrous
Scoring: disastrous Set Pieces: disastrous

Career Goals: 0
Career Hattricks: 0
League goals this season: 0
Cup goals this season: 0
A bit behind Bouchebri, but 3 years younger.

I intend to take both of them to formidable, which should occur somewhere at the beginning of next season, according to HO!

For humourous reasons, here is the player I've just pulled :

quote:Latyr Dieng (146094341)
22 years, passable form, healthy
A popular guy who is fiery and dishonest.
Has disastrous experience and inadequate leadership abilities.

Nationality: France
Total Skill Index (TSI): 0
Wage: 520 €/week
Owner: Krys Olympic
Warnings: 0
Injuries: Healthy


Stamina: disastrous Goalkeeping: disastrous
Playmaking: poor Passing: disastrous
Winger: disastrous Defending: disastrous
Scoring: disastrous Set Pieces: wretched

Career Goals: 0
Career Hattricks: 0
League goals this season: 0
Cup goals this season: 0
OOO... K ! [lol] (I asked for a GK)

[barbu1977]

first time I see a 22y.o. YP!!!

[Socrates]

As expected long ago, I recently reached excellent status for my YS. Not sure if it happened last week or this week since I was away (and I lost one pull in the process of course). So my first pull yesterday was... a golfer, but with potential, since he is only 17. :) As usual, he'll play on Wednesday before being fired. I'm now pulling outfielders only, I think it's what I have to do, all the more as I plan to switch to winger training next season.

[Socrates]

Maillard has just reached formidable status, and he's currently on sale, for those who are interested. ;) Bouchebri will follow him soon ; he's a bit more difficult to train, since he is older. :D

I have one question. I'm planning on switching to winger training after both of them sell. I suppose that winger training gives you more money than goalkeeper training, right ? With the money I now get from the home matches (12,000 sellout each time), and with the money I'll get from the 2 sales, I'll probably have enough to buy young wingers and wingbacks, at least I hope. The question is : should I buy me 1 or 2 new goalkeeper(s) ? I intend to buy one this week, just below a certain level (probably just below excellent), and train him to said level, while waiting for the 2nd keeper to reach formidable. This new GK can be quite old (20-22), I just have to make sure he'll reach said level soon (Hattrick Keeper Tool is my friend). Once I switch to winger training, I won't need 2 GKs, and since the GK is supposed to have less injury (common sense, but is this the case in Hattrick ??), why not have 1 GK only ? If he ever gets injured, I can just buy another cheap one for a few weeks...

Why do you think of all that ? :)

[Tubby Rower]

I noticed that one of my former trainees is back up for sale after he reached outstanding. his TC is only 800k. which is sad since they were going for 1300k early last season.

I would get just one trainee and train him until you sell the other one. But I would keep your soon-to-be formidable trainee until he is at least brilliant. That way you could keep your lesser trainee as a permanent GK ;)

[Socrates]

The problem is that he is 21, and soon 22 of course. This will result in a loss of efficiency in training. I could keep the young one until 1 or 2 level ups and sell the old one when he reaches formidable, but the young one is already on sale. BTW, he didn't sell for 640k, and I've just relisted him for 610k. I hope he sells this time.

I'm already engaged in the GK-selling process, and I don't want to lose training spots, nor sell a GK a week or two after a level up (those often don't strike buyers' minds, me included). So I think I'll continue what I planned. But finding a not-so-young GK to train a bit to the next level isn't that easy of course, there aren't too many. I think I could use the 2 weeks in the inter-season to train the new GK, so as not to lose training spots (Keeper Tool says the old GK is between 8.73 and 8.93, so he should up just before the inter-season, I hope). This enables me to find a new GK who is not necessarily just about to up. This may be confusing. [mischief]


EDIT : BTW, is it important that I train the new GK to the next level or not ? Now that I think of it, it seems that players' strength increase continuously, and not step by step at each level, right ? So I don't care getting to the next level if I intend to keep the GK for a long time, right ? I should just focus on a not-that-old, not-that-shitty, not-that-expensive GK, right ?

[akots]

quote:Originally posted by kryszcztov
... I suppose that winger training gives you more money than goalkeeper training, right ? ...


Not really, about same. Good winger trainees are hard to find. There is a plently of bad trainees and they are not so cheap as well. With keeper training, you don't have to pay too much for a good trainee since all trainees are the same (there is only one important skill and no secondaries). So, keeper market is more predictable and more straightforward.

Winger training also has secondary spots (which pop more slowly) and these are not worth the effort. I've just trained a winger in secondary spot for almost whole season and barely broke even when I sold him. Even if you can make some money spending more time on the market, this would be just pennies.

[sz_matyas]

The reason that I finished training my primary gk up to formidable is that I intend to updgrade in the medium term (probably 2 seasons, depending on income and promotion). While a high excellent will garner more income than a low excellent it is probably on the order of $100K, while the extra week/level may grant him $300K. Depending on the level you buy, this may or may not be a good idea. I wouldn't get bent out of shape on age, if he's clsoe to the next level you'll make up the samll age premium by him leveling up (unless they are currently 17).

Again how many goalies you buy depends on the level you are aiming for. If your primary is excellent or better I would recommend buying a passable/solid to hold done friendlies, as you don't want him hurt in a friendly and unable to play in league. If you get a low skill primary, don't bother with a backup as you can replace them in a heartbeat.

Good luck switching training, that is always expensive to do

[Socrates]

Hooray ! Just bought a GK at a reasonable price (60,200 €), and just in time for this afternoon's match (AND TRAINING) against Mr. Aggie. :)

quote:Karl Torbjärnsson (153242340)
19 years, passable form, healthy
A popular guy who is calm and honest.
Has disastrous experience and inadequate leadership abilities.

Nationality: Sverige
Total Skill Index (TSI): 4 020
Wage: 3 552 €/week including 20% Bonus
Owner: Krys Olympic
Warnings: 0
Injuries: Healthy


Stamina: disastrous Goalkeeping: solid
Playmaking: disastrous Passing: disastrous
Winger: disastrous Defending: disastrous
Scoring: disastrous Set Pieces: weak

Career Goals: 0
Career Hattricks: 0
League goals this season: 0
Cup goals this season: 0
I have something with Swedes or what ? ;) My best forward and my coach also come from Hattrick land. BTW, he is a bit expensive in wage, but he is still rather young, and maybe he'll be able to up to excellent level, Keeper Tool says he is between 7.52 and 7.72 (even if it doesn't matter that much, except when I sell him much later). I think he'll by my only GK, once the other 2 are sold.

[Socrates]

My GK (Maxime Maillard) didn't sell for 640,000 € early this week, and didn't sell for 610,000 € tonight. [blush2] I don't know what to do. One thing is sure : I wanna sell him, because I'm happy with my new GK. Surely it's not that bad if I sell him a bit afterwards and therefore pay him some wages ? I lose a bit of cash, but it can't be that bad ? But at what price should I sell him ? It will surely go if I put him at zero or a very low price, but I can't control the price then, and I might lose a lot of money, and I dread that because training is the essence of this game. So ?...

[Aggie]

I just sold my 18 y.o. formi keeper for 467,000 euro. Prices ranged from 370,000 to 575,000. How on earth did you expect to get this much for a 21 y.o.?

You should expect 400.000 for this one.

[Socrates]

Nah, the GK I've failed to sell so far is the 18 yo GK (Maillard). Why did I expect so much money ? Because a few months ago, I sold an older GK at formidable for 620,000 € (Dartois). :) That's why. If he doesn't sell early this week, I'll put him at quite a low price, and accept a lower income. :( Pfff, it feels like you're working for a lower salary than promised, it's frustrating.

[arne1]

yeah, it is like the stock-market. To avoid disappoint I just check prices just before I sell a player.

[Socrates]

Didn't sell for 570,000 €... [sulk] What should I do ? Sell him at say 300k or 400k, or at zero ??? How do you guys make sure to get a good price and still sell ?

[socralynnek]

I set asking price at 20% lower than what I expect. This helps to prevent a total loss in case of server slowness or similar.
And to get a good price, take a look on the market whether someone has put similar players short time before you (you can sort by newest entries first and thus can see whether your player has many similar players on the list in the same timeframe)

[Socrates]

Oooh, I had never made attention to this feature, thanks !!! I mean, to know what kind of players have just been put on the market in the Search part. I'll now be able to adjust my price according to what has just been done. Great ! [goodjob]

[Socrates]

Didn't sell for the 4th time, this time at 490,000 €. :( My other GK is now also formidable. What should I do ???

I'm now definitely considering switching to winger training, GK training is so shitty.

[sz_matyas]

As far as what would I do, wait until the new season starts and give it one more try on selling. Your target audience with an 18 yr old is trainers who don't buy as the season is ending. Prices tend to pick up for young players with the new season even as they are one year older as people make plans for the new year and too many bargain hunters chase the same bargains driving up price. As there is more cash flowing at the beginning of the year as people have cup income as well as home match income.

Still you are right about GK training being a bad idea for up and coming teams which is why when I had enough money I switched.

[Socrates]

I've been doing my shopping !! :D I'm switching to winger training next week (after 2 weeks of stamina), and so I've just finished buying me 8 trainees. This was a lot of work between last Sunday and tonight. Tubby Rower is also switching to winger training now, it's a nice coincidence. Here are my babies, in TSI order (why not)...

quote:Fernando Rohman (155712105)
18 years, passable form, healthy
A pleasant guy who is calm and honest.
Has disastrous experience and poor leadership abilities.

Nationality: Schweiz
Total Skill Index (TSI): 860
Wage: 744 €/week including 20% Bonus
Owner: Krys Olympic
Warnings: 0
Injuries: Healthy


Stamina: inadequate Goalkeeping: disastrous
Playmaking: poor Passing: solid
Winger: passable Defending: poor
Scoring: poor Set Pieces: wretched

Career Goals: 0
Career Hattricks: 0
League goals this season: 0
Cup goals this season: 0
bought for 20k

quote:Sven Sommer (148511186)
18 years, passable form, healthy
A pleasant guy who is calm and honest.
Has disastrous experience and wretched leadership abilities.

Speciality: Technical

Nationality: Österreich
Total Skill Index (TSI): 780
Wage: 864 €/week including 20% Bonus
Owner: Krys Olympic
Warnings: 0
Injuries: Healthy


Stamina: wretched Goalkeeping: disastrous
Playmaking: poor Passing: poor
Winger: solid Defending: passable
Scoring: weak Set Pieces: passable

Career Goals: 0
Career Hattricks: 0
League goals this season: 0
Cup goals this season: 0
bought for 27k

quote:Herland Soljancik (156473887)
17 years, passable form, healthy
A popular guy who is balanced and honest.
Has disastrous experience and weak leadership abilities.

Nationality: Bolivia
Total Skill Index (TSI): 740
Wage: 696 €/week including 20% Bonus
Owner: Krys Olympic
Warnings: 0
Injuries: Healthy


Stamina: passable Goalkeeping: disastrous
Playmaking: poor Passing: inadequate
Winger: passable Defending: inadequate
Scoring: weak Set Pieces: wretched

Career Goals: 0
Career Hattricks: 0
League goals this season: 0
Cup goals this season: 0
bought for 34k (t'was difficult), my only 17 yo trainee

quote:Ciro Cruciani (156018469)
18 years, passable form, healthy
A popular guy who is balanced and honest.
Has disastrous experience and weak leadership abilities.

Speciality: Technical

Nationality: Italia
Total Skill Index (TSI): 720
Wage: 672 €/week including 20% Bonus
Owner: Krys Olympic
Warnings: 0
Injuries: Healthy


Stamina: passable Goalkeeping: disastrous
Playmaking: inadequate Passing: poor
Winger: passable Defending: weak
Scoring: inadequate Set Pieces: wretched

Career Goals: 0
Career Hattricks: 0
League goals this season: 0
Cup goals this season: 0
bought for 9k

quote:Maxiem Jacquet (156829367)
18 years, passable form, healthy
A sympathetic guy who is calm and honest.
Has disastrous experience and weak leadership abilities.

Nationality: België
Total Skill Index (TSI): 630
Wage: 792 €/week including 20% Bonus
Owner: Krys Olympic
Warnings: 0
Injuries: Healthy


Stamina: poor Goalkeeping: disastrous
Playmaking: weak Passing: inadequate
Winger: solid Defending: weak
Scoring: poor Set Pieces: inadequate

Career Goals: 0
Career Hattricks: 0
League goals this season: 0
Cup goals this season: 0
bought for 15k

quote:Leandro Viana (146891789)
18 years, inadequate form, healthy
A pleasant guy who is calm and honest.
Has disastrous experience and poor leadership abilities.

Speciality: Unpredictable

Nationality: Portugal
Total Skill Index (TSI): 590
Wage: 744 €/week including 20% Bonus
Owner: Krys Olympic
Warnings: 0
Injuries: Healthy


Stamina: weak Goalkeeping: disastrous
Playmaking: weak Passing: poor
Winger: solid Defending: inadequate
Scoring: wretched Set Pieces: wretched

Career Goals: 0
Career Hattricks: 0
League goals this season: 0
Cup goals this season: 0
bought for 25k

quote:Ove Wettergren (155677032)
18 years, passable form, healthy
A popular guy who is balanced and honest.
Has disastrous experience and inadequate leadership abilities.

Nationality: Suomi
Total Skill Index (TSI): 470
Wage: 696 €/week including 20% Bonus
Owner: Krys Olympic
Warnings: 0
Injuries: Healthy


Stamina: poor Goalkeeping: disastrous
Playmaking: poor Passing: solid
Winger: passable Defending: wretched
Scoring: wretched Set Pieces: weak

Career Goals: 0
Career Hattricks: 0
League goals this season: 0
Cup goals this season: 0
bought for 28k

quote:He Shou Xin (146459421)
18 years, disastrous form, healthy
A pleasant guy who is balanced and upright.
Has disastrous experience and inadequate leadership abilities.

Nationality: Chinese Taipei
Total Skill Index (TSI): 230
Wage: 792 €/week including 20% Bonus
Owner: Krys Olympic
Warnings: 0
Injuries: Healthy


Stamina: weak Goalkeeping: disastrous
Playmaking: poor Passing: passable
Winger: solid Defending: wretched
Scoring: weak Set Pieces: inadequate

Career Goals: 0
Career Hattricks: 0
League goals this season: 0
Cup goals this season: 0
bought for 33k

That's a total of 191k for 8 players, ie. 23,875 € per trainee. Quite OK, I think.

Like Tubby, I will sold my old wingers and wingbacks next week. For some I'll have to wait a little, as I currently have 4 injured players, and they're all defenders !!! [eek] :( My defensive line was totally crushed at the end of the season.

I'm also waiting for my 2 GKs to sell, I delayed it until this week, like sz_matyas suggested. I'd better sell them quickly, their salaries became huuuge ! After that, it will be time to upgrade my stadium (still 12k seats, full even in small matches now).

This was the youth week, as last night, the (RL) French national team beat Austria 1-0, and most players were beginners. The match wasn't great, but those youngsters are very interesting... [groucho]

[socralynnek]

Nice buys, maybe you could have gotten more defense for your wingback trainees, but nice.
Do you wann rotate the players around or do you just let some train slower (WB only get 50% training)

[Socrates]

Apparently, it was easier to get wingers with passing (winger position, forward movement) than wingers with defending (wingback position). And with 8 trainees to buy in one week, I couldn't wait forever. No biggie, I hope my attack and midfield will do the trick this season.

How I'll use my players, I'm not sure, but suggestions are GREATLY welcome. Winger training is one of the most difficult training type to manage, it seems (that's also why I chose it). It's quite obvious to me than Sommer will be one wingback on Saturdays at least. I have Cruciani as a possible winger in inner movement (to increase the possession a bit), which I'll do against the better opponents. Soljancik looks like a nice wingback on Saturdays too, but he can also be used as a winger in case of an injury. Well, there are many options, and I'll use them all if I have to, because I want the title this season. But how to manage the 100% and 50% spots, combined with the buying and the selling... Not a clue, my intuition tells me I should just assign a player to a position/schedule, sell the wingers regularly, keep the wingbacks longer and sell them too...

[akots]

quote:Originally posted by kryszcztov
... Winger training is one of the most difficult training type to manage, it seems (that's also why I chose it). ...


Not really, it will all depend on which kind of money one wants to get in return. For you, within probably this season, you can get most of your guys from passable to excellent hopefully and then can decide to either continue training at least some of them and sell half to buy new trainees or even switch training type since the performance you get from trained players might be enough for you.

I've trained wingers for one season, screwed it all up a couple of times but had not been able to make any money at all. The wingbacks take forever to pop, so I will not use these spots at all especially not until I'm out of the cup. Then, may be I'll buy some trainees.

However, I now have one player from Chile who is 18 yo but already in their U-20 and another from Turkey which is also 18-yo and is on Turkish U-20 waiting list. These players will get tons of extra experience and their playing strength and market value (if I ever would be willing to sell them) can be pretty high. A 19-yo world class winger with passable experience is worth a lot.

So, whatever income might be possible to get is still about 2 seasons away from now. [aargh]

[Tubby Rower]

quote:That's a total of 191k for 8 players, ie. 23,875 € per trainee. Quite OK, I think.I got some steals then. I bought 2 solids and 2 passable 17 yo wingers with at least weak in their secondary and never paid &gt; 30k for any of them. a couple I got for less than 5k.I have some of my better players in wing back to just get the lesser training since I'm likely going to keep them for later ;)


Ángel Anania $11k
TSI = 350 , 17 years, passable form
Has disastrous experience and poor leadership abilities

Stamina: inadequate Keeper: disastrous
Playmaking: wretched Passing: weak
Winger: solid Defending: poor
Scoring: wretched Set pieces: poor

Germán Adrián Ramón Grasso $10k
TSI = 400 , 17 years, passable form
Has non-existent experience and disastrous leadership abilities [Unpredictable]

Stamina: inadequate Keeper: disastrous
Playmaking: poor Passing: poor
Winger: solid Defending: weak
Scoring: poor Set pieces: inadequate

Józef Studniarek $2k
TSI = 550 , 17 years, passable form
Has disastrous experience and weak leadership abilities

Stamina: passable Keeper: disastrous
Playmaking: weak Passing: poor
Winger: passable Defending: poor
Scoring: inadequate Set pieces: weak

Niklas Magnusson $1k
TSI = 270 , 17 years, passable form
Has non-existent experience and passable leadership abilities [Powerful]

Stamina: excellent Keeper: disastrous
Playmaking: wretched Passing: wretched
Winger: passable Defending: wretched
Scoring: inadequate Set pieces: poor

[Socrates]

The 2 last ones were steals, definitely. ;)

Well, none of my 8 trainees is below inadequate in his secondary skill, that was one of my mandatory restriction, the other one being passable in winger at least of course. There's also a third restriction I had, though not 100% mandatory but quite close ; I followed it for all of them here, would you find this one ? [groucho] (I'll post a question about it soon if no one finds)

[Tubby Rower]

well they're all calm or balanced. That'll hurt you when you sell them though.

[Socrates]

quote:Originally posted by Tubby Rower

well they're all calm or balanced. That'll hurt you when you sell them though.

Hehe, good find !! [thumbsup] Actually, I chose players with only positive terms in those 3 categories, ie. at least pleasant, balanced and honest. I intend to do that in the future in most cases.

So, my question : is it worth it ? It comes with just a little extra effort when you browse the market, but is there an advantage with that ? Shouldn't that help me when I buy them (symetrical to the fact that it hurts me when I sell them) ? And what do those 3 things really really mean ? I hope they get less cards overall, am I right ?

[arne1]

cards depends on honesty and aggresiveness.

I think you have bought a little better trainees than tubby. specially the passble passing will help you and drive the price up. I personnally think that all wingers shold have some pm, since this cuts cost foor midfield salaries. I am not sure at whicht level this starts to become a factor though. My worldclass midfileder just asks for 10k a week which is not that difficult to finance.

[Aggie]

EDIT: added quote :D quote:Originally posted by Tubby Rower

quote:That's a total of 191k for 8 players, ie. 23,875 € per trainee. Quite OK, I think.I got some steals then. I bought 2 solids and 2 passable 17 yo wingers with at least weak in their secondary and never paid &gt; 30k for any of them. a couple I got for less than 5k...

Prices have gone up since the IS/week 1... I payed a bit more than Tubby and Krys, but also because I went shopping for higher skilled wingers (a.o. a few excellent ones).

[socralynnek]

I guess, you picked the wrong thread, aggie?


But yeah, let's spam krys' thread...

It's normal that prices go up in the first let's say 3 weeks of the season. And wingers are currently really not cheap...I would like to buy one too, but if you also look for sideskills, then it's quite hard.
Let's wait and see whether the genral downwar trend is stopped, I guess it's at least slowed down.

[Aggie]

quote:Originally posted by socralynnek

I guess, you picked the wrong thread, aggie?


But yeah, let's spam krys' thread...


I was looking at the prices Krys and Tubby payed for their wingers. The prices I had to pay were a bit higher. Maybe quoting would have been better... In fact, I'm going to put a quote in my previous post!

[Tubby Rower]

The ones that I bought were steals for sure. I got them after the players aged so they were 17yos with passable+ winger

03/29/2007 Bought Germán Adrián Ramón Gr from Aji molido y pa $10 000 340 solid winger
03/28/2007 Bought Ángel Anania from lospirulacticos $11 000 290 solid winger
03/28/2007 Bought Józef Studniarek from Vir prudens non $ 1 000 490 passable winger
03/28/2007 Bought Niklas Magnusson from FC Knas $ 2 000 250 passable winger

[Socrates]

After last night's defeat (very unlucky), I'm trying to find ways to optimize my chances of victory for my next match, as we're all playing the same opponent as the one from this weekend. My goal is to finish #1 at all cost, no less. My opponent became #1 yesterday, but I'm just 1 point behind, because he got a draw a few weeks ago. So, if I win next match against him, I get back to #1, and then it's up to me to win the other matches. The problem is I play #3 just after that, so I just can't rely on a MOTS next week and a bit of luck.

I need to buy players and I have about 500k to 600k for that. Probably 2 players could do the trick. What kind of players should I buy and at what cost ? What tactics should I use ? I can give some info on my current players if needed.

Thanks in advance. :)

[sz_matyas]

If the goal is win at all costs, here are what suggestions I would make: Your 3rd IM definately needs improvement as does your 2nd forward. Personally I would suggest buying some high experience beer leaguers in decent form.
Example: I have this guy on the market right now for $25K
30 years, solid form, healthy
A controversial person who is temperamental and upright.
Has poor experience and inadequate leadership abilities.

Speciality: Powerful

Nationality: flag USA
Total Skill Index (TSI): 870
Wage: 720 US$/week
Owner: hunting_penguins
Warnings: 0
Injuries: Healthy


Stamina: formidable Goalkeeping: wretched
Playmaking: solid Passing: poor
Winger: inadequate Defending: weak
Scoring: weak Set Pieces: weak
He would get you 3 stars which could push you over the top. You can probably find better, but this is the type of player I suggest looking for solid with experience and not settling for low stamina. You should be able to patch these two gaps for around $50-$100K depending on how good you go (money goes farther in the offseason so save it till then)

As far as tactics: attack on the wings, your ratings dominated him there, use it to your advantage he seems to not vary his lineup much and the home advantage should help you as well. That was a hard loss, but that's the best I can come up with for avoiding a repeat.

[Aggie]

Your midfield is in bad shape. You should easily find players with 3 stars at least. Solid playmaking, passable passing, excellent stamina, solid form should do the trick for a relative small sum. I'd go for 2 or 3 strong midfielders.

Just to show you what you can get for 250000 euro:

quote:Ile Natev (95045821)
23 years, passable form, healthy
A popular guy who is balanced and upright.
Has wretched experience and weak leadership abilities.

Nationality: FYR Macedonia
Total Skill Index (TSI): 4 260
Wage: 2 040 €/week including 20% Bonus
Owner: Lucky Aggie
Warnings: 0
Injuries: Healthy


Stamina: formidable Goalkeeping: disastrous
Playmaking: formidable Passing: poor
Winger: poor Defending: inadequate
Scoring: weak Set Pieces: inadequate

You can buy 3.5 star midfielders for 100K (do check stamina and form).

[Socrates]

I got me a new IM at the beginning of the week, but wasn't able to find a decent FW at a decent price. Anyway, here is the new Olympian, bought for 376,400 € (5,040 TSI by then) :

quote:Hemmo Spreeuwenberg (54405803)
27 years, weak form
A pleasant guy who is balanced and honest.
Has weak experience and poor leadership abilities.

Nationality: Nederland
Total Skill Index (TSI): 4 840
Wage: 3 336 €/week including 20% Bonus
Owner: Krys Olympic
Warnings: (this information is not available while matches are in progress)
Injuries: (Injuries are not shown during matches. )


Stamina: passable Goalkeeping: disastrous
Playmaking: outstanding Passing: weak
Winger: weak Defending: inadequate
Scoring: poor Set Pieces: poor
I hope this is enough to win the title.

[Aggie]

Weak form, passable stamina. This is a buy for the long term but then his age is a bit high...

[Socrates]

One of my trainee got injured last night, this is the first time it happens for me, and I don't know what to do. I'm training Winger, and the guy plays as a full back, ie. only half a trainee. He got a 3-week injury. Should I forget the spot ? Should I buy another trainee in the meantime ?

[Kemal]

I'd leave the spot open, a 50% training spot is not worth much, and getting a trainee-replacement that pops within one training (your original one will be back in 2 weeks) is difficult and timeconsuming. Finally, profits will not be that big in the end anyway for only a single pop.

[Tubby Rower]

what I do is play my main trainees in the league match and any excess spots in the friendly that I have due to injuries are fielded by some of my younger players even if the position doesn't match

[Aggie]

Sad to see spanish win again Krys. Let's hope he DOES lose a match somewhere.

[Socrates]

I've just made my best YP sale : 165,000 € for Christophe Bochereau (165799427), pulled last Saturday. Forgot to copy-paste his skills before too late, but he is 17 yo, solid defense and passable winger, and around 1,000 TSI.

My finances are pretty solid now, but I dread next Saturday.

[Tubby Rower]

are you still playing HT? if not I'll go find another friendly for this week. I'll wait unless I hear back from you, but Sunday night my time, I'll be looking for another friendly.

[Socrates]

Oh sorry. Yes I'm done with Hattrick. Please find another friendly.