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Kemal
25-06-2006, 11:07
[yeah], the game has started!

Using the input from the other thread I've started a standard map/emperor/7AI with random temp and climate, no other modifications to the options.

RNG gave us Montezuma (spiritual/aggressive), with the jag. warrior replacing the sword as our UU and hunting and mysticism as starting techs.

The start:


http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/Kemal/20066259438_CDZSG_start.jpg
38.06KB

I founded on the spot, a pretty decent location with stone, pigs and dyes in our city's reach. Research was set to polytheism to try and secure a religion, considering we started with mysticism meaning the religion was only one tech away, and the fact that we started near a 2 commerce tile early on (the dyes). Once our cultural influence expanded, while we were researching poly, I shifted a worker from a forest (2f/1h) to the dyes (2f/2c) to speed up poly by a turn, don't know if this made any difference but the loss of a few hammers seemed to be worth it to speed up poly by a turn, since we really wouldn't have wanted to miss it, and I had already made contact with another religious civ by then, see next.

Our scout went exploring around a bit, and has so far found maps and gold from huts, plus more importantly:

http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/Kemal/200662594842_saladin.jpg
36.62KB

http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/Kemal/200662594856_CDZSG-cathy.jpg
36.8KB

Both discovered withing 10 turns, though the russians discovered us rather than the other way around. Looks like we might need to hurry to grab the lands we need... [sad]

Speaking of which, here's what our lands look like so far:

South of the capital:

http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/Kemal/200662595031_CDZlandzuid.jpg
43.23KB

East of the capital, where we can see the borders of Mecca already:

http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/Kemal/200662595053_CDZlandoost.jpg
39.72KB

North of the capital:

http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/Kemal/200662595128_CDZlandnoord.jpg
32.13KB

Not the best of pics I'm afraid, I'll try to do better in the future, hopefully everyone will be able to look on via the posted saves as well...

As for our religion, we did manage to get hinduism first, even faster than another civ got buddhism (some unknown civ has founded that), and I already converted to hinduism since it is free of charge. We do need to be very careful with religions though, since it plays a major role in managing relations with other civs. With our spiritual trait though, we are in a good position to adapt to the religions of others once the game progresses, to enjoy the diplo-modifiers of sharing a religion when we need it most.

We're currently building a worker and researching animal husbandry to get those pigs up and running asap. Fairly straightforward stuff so far I suppose, so I've played this all through in one go... if anyone disagrees, blame and flame me. ;)

And the most important part:

Download Attachment: icon_paperclip.gif CDZBC-3200.zip (http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/Kemal/200662510226_CDZBC-3200.zip)
60.56KB

Things that will be needing discussion I think is the tech path we will be following, plus the timing of the start of the construction of our first settler. Both Animal Husbandry and our worker are due in 4 atm.

BCLG100
25-06-2006, 14:42
I think we need to know bronze to see if we can get some axes out. Jag's are possibly the most useless thing in the world so there isnt a rush to get them.

how do i upload on cdz for future reference?

Beam
25-06-2006, 14:45
Kemal -> Jsut played
BCLG100 -> Up? (but might skip a few turns the 1st weeks
Grahamian -> On deck
grs
ProPain
Furiey
Beam
Shabbaman

This sequence is from the starting thread and copied straight, please post if you want another sequence.

Shabbaman
25-06-2006, 14:46
I say we go for cottages first.

BCLG100
25-06-2006, 14:54
no i can play solidly now, only couldnt play the last few weeks. I dont mind that order.

Beam
25-06-2006, 15:34
Techs: There are 5 forests in the 5x5 and 1 just outside and available soon. Keeping on eye on health means we can't chop that much in the near future so putting a lot of turns on Mining > BW maybe isn't the best option. Wheel leads to Pottery cottages and Writing which is a nice path and keeps the worker busy for a while and allows to connect the Pig. AH reveals Horse, if we have Chars can be build and there is no immediate need for Archers. Agri and Masonry are nice but not needed immed imo. Same for the other techs next.

So I'd say Wheel > Pottery > Writing. And build the first settler asap as we need to grab lands quickly.

Kemal
25-06-2006, 15:50
I do think we should let Tenochtitlan grow to size 3 at least while we build another warrior or scout, no way we should send a settler into the dark without an escort on emperor. Barbarians are a major threat, as Beam says if we do not have horses we should go for archery asap.

I'd say if we have horses -> warrior - settler (once size 3), if not scout -> archer -> settler (maybe at size 4)

grahamiam
27-06-2006, 14:55
[bump] bclghijklmnop?

BCLG100
27-06-2006, 15:28
i was waiting for my question about the uploading to be answered, how do i upload at cdz?

BCLG100
27-06-2006, 15:30
i was waiting for my question about the uploading to be answered, how do i upload at cdz?

BCLG100
27-06-2006, 15:31
i was waiting for my question about the uploading to be answered, how do i upload at cdz?

grahamiam
27-06-2006, 16:33
hmm, triple post [thumbsup]

at the bottom of the page, click "reply to topic". When that page opens, at the bottom of the dialoge box, is a paperclip. Click on that to upload files or pictures. to upload saves, you must zip them.

BCLG100
27-06-2006, 17:52
Damn shitty server-i only played 10 turns because i figured thats all i was meant too :)

Ok i tooks some pictures which i hadnt seen if kemal took pictures-from the outset.
http://img70.imageshack.us/img70/6477/maincity3200bc4vv.jpg

And heres inside the city-
http://img73.imageshack.us/img73/2990/insidemaincity3200bc0pm.jpg

Wandered around for a bit with the scout and found Russia's borders.

Discovered AH after 4 turns and started on wheel, sent the worker to work the pigs. Carried on wandering with the scout until i noticed a Russian Settler which i set off to follow as it was going into the mist, then however Alas!
http://img370.imageshack.us/img370/7169/ohno8xl.jpg

I took this of where the Russian city would be- i figure they settled while my scout was ontop of the hill and therefore pushing it off into the path of an oncoming bear.
http://img380.imageshack.us/img380/5163/snewcity2eb.jpg

Erm and thats about it, hopefully ive done the save right-

hmm it says this when i try and upload
quote:Internal Server Error
The server encountered an internal error or misconfiguration and was unable to complete your request.

Please contact the server administrator to inform of the time the error occurred and of anything you might have done that may have caused the error.

More information about this error may be available in the server error log.

grahamiam
27-06-2006, 20:47
just send the save to my email account. I'll play and post tonight if it comes in :)

Beam
27-06-2006, 20:55
Kemal
BCLG100 -> Jsut played
Grahamian -> Up
grs -> On deck
ProPain
Furiey
Beam
Shabbaman

Kemal
27-06-2006, 21:17
Can we please have the save sent by BCLG to graham posted here as well, just for everyone to keep up with the progress so far? :)

@BCLG: the error probably occurs because CDZ doesn;t accept .sav files... if you could either zip them, or perhaps even renaming them to .zip, it will probably work.

BCLG100
27-06-2006, 22:07
ok i did zip the file, i'll try renaming it as well

that didnt work either :(

grahamiam
27-06-2006, 22:22
the save file is 340k, which is probably the problem. also, it's labeled "CDZ BC-2800[1].zip.zip"

Not sure of 3 things:
1. double ".zip" extension
2. the brackets "[1]"
3. the file is huge for this point of time in the game

BCLG100
27-06-2006, 22:37
hmmm i dunno why, i just sent the file to be zipped and then kemal said something along renaming it, so i added .zip in words.

i think the [1] may have something to do with me sending 2 files because it isnt saved as that.

i'll go ingame and take a look.

grahamiam
27-06-2006, 22:46
actually, I need to rethink #3. I think 340k is normal for civ4 at this time. The problem is that CDZ limits the upload to 250k. The only way around this is to email the save to all turnplayers every turn :(

Kemal
27-06-2006, 22:50
Hmm, no it should definitely be smaller I think than 250K, I have several AD saves not even reaching 250K in my saves folder. Perhaps the "space" in the name of the file (between CDZ and BC) is the problem here? Iirc CDZ doesn't take files with a space in the name.

grs
27-06-2006, 23:59
I am here and listenig, though I did not say much yet :)

BCLG100
28-06-2006, 02:18
well i went back and even played the save again-repeating the same exact moves-nothing new discovered so i've got no idea why it is 400kb at the end of it. i think it could be to do with the file size and the not uploading.

grahamiam
28-06-2006, 04:51
Preflight check: Move worker to the stones. doh, should have been to the pigs. Check CDZ to see what path we want, as there is nothing for the worker to do till we get wheel. Wait forever for the damn page to load... [sleep]
Can't wait to post the report [rolleyes]

Ok, there we go. Wheel -> pot -> writing. That leaves a productive tile (the stone) unexploited for a while.... Mas would take 10T, perhaps it's better at size 3.

IBT: rax -> warrior

T1: 2760 BC Scout heads towards the pigs

IBT: nada

[b]T2: 2720 BC worker on the pigs, wheel in 1T

IBT: Wheel -> AGR

T3: 2680 BC Road the pig. Saladin adopts slavery. Not sure holding off on BW is such a great idea without any horses nearby.

IBT: warrior -> settler (we need those horses to the SE before Cathy gets them)

T4: 2640 BC Cathy adopts slavery. New warrior SE

IBT:

T5: 2600 BC new warrior SE. Road on pigs done, start connecting to capitol.

IBT:

T6: 2560 BC pigs connected. Will start roading towards horses

IBT: another forest grows.

T7: 2520 BC Our health is at 7, 2 points above happiness. We definitely don't have a health problem.

IBT:

T8: 2480 BC nada. Jungle grows towards the capitol.

IBT:

T9: 2440 BC nada

IBT:

T10: 2400 BC worker is roading the jungle to the SE. Settler due in 5T, AGR in 1T. Recommend moving the worker to the dye and irrigating it, that way we can work a 3fpt tile that also has 2 commerce.
Recommend we settle on one of the hills near the horse, preferably N as it will have 2 gems in the future.


http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/grahamiam/200662835423_CDZ-emperor-2400BC.JPG

I tried WinRaR and Winzip, both end up around 344k. So I emailed the save to grs as he's next. t-online account failed, but it looks like the gmail account is ok.

Shabbaman
28-06-2006, 08:42
Those horses are down the river to the SE? That's a good spot, with the gems.

grs
28-06-2006, 10:05
I got it per mail. My t-online account no longer exists. I would advise we make a thread at CFC to upload the saves for all.

grahamiam
28-06-2006, 14:49
quote:Originally posted by Shabbaman

Those horses are down the river to the SE? That's a good spot, with the gems.

yeah, that's a crappy screenie to show that [lol] the horses are located 1T E of the "red dot" that you can click to end the turn. Sorry about that.

I should also point out that the hill tile W of the horse will have a plains cow tile in range when borders expand, so it may be a better spot.

Furiey
28-06-2006, 16:08
I can't see where the Cows are, but how about 1NW of the tile with red end of turn button. That would have on expansion the Rice, 2 Gems and the Horses.

A CFC thread may be a good idea for uploads.

grahamiam
28-06-2006, 16:44
the cows are in BLCG's 4th screenie, which also gives you an idea of how close the new town will be to Cathy

grs
28-06-2006, 22:04
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=175704

grahamiam
28-06-2006, 22:27
I'm confused, why are you posting @ CFC?

As far as the proposed spot, that's fine with me. It's aggressive vs Cathy, so we need to be careful.

grs
28-06-2006, 22:33
Because we cant post the save here.

grs
28-06-2006, 22:51
2360BC Aggriculture learned - Masonry started (we do not want to work so many unimproved tiles). We start to build a farm on the dyes as grahamiam proposed.

2320BC Barb archer shows to the north-east.

2280BC Barb archer vanishes.

2240BC --

2200BC Farm completed.

2160BC Tenochtitlan settler - warrior.

2120BC Barb archer shows again. Saladin settles pretty close to us. Road the stone while Masonry completes.

2080BC Barb archer vanishes. Tenochtitlan warrior - warrior.

2040BC Teotihuacan founded - worker

2000BC Masonry completes - Pottery (?). Start Quarry.

Map (the archer appears 2 nw of our guarding warrior)

http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/grs/200662821480_2000BC.jpg
63.71*KB

save at CFC

Beam
29-06-2006, 02:26
Kemal
BCLG100
Grahamian
grs -> Jsut played
ProPain -> Up
Furiey -> On deck
Beam
Shabbaman

PP, Furiey can you play next couple of days?

Iirc files can be upped at that other site without a thread.

Furiey
29-06-2006, 04:06
I should be able to play pretty quickly on the save becoming available. Tomorrow is free, Friday a bit busy but there should be time and the weekend is OK. I'll just have to juggle with SGOTM10 as I'm on deck for that as well.

We may need another city between the Horse one to stop it getting cut off. Site A would get the rice, 2 gems and sugar, site B would miss the rice but have more chance of claiming the gems.

http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/Furiey/2006629396_Civ4ScreenShot0016.JPG
179.71*KB

Shabbaman
29-06-2006, 09:52
There's room for a city, but to build it there would be a waste. If we need to claim that space, perhaps building/rushing something that makes culture in Teotihuacan would be better. We can only get the gems by building on spot B (without culture). If we want to claim a lot of land, the tile two tiles west of the rice (5S of the capital) looks more than decent. Spot B is OK, but if we settle there we'll surely miss out on other opportunities. The tile I propose gives us a lot of forest to chop, at least. BTW, we need hills for potential bronze and iron

It looks like we can't expand east without war, so we should focus on that.

grs
29-06-2006, 12:12
Site B is imho much better, since it claims the gems soon. Pop-rushing culture is no option in such a food low spot for me. We should also keep in mind, that we will not be able to get such large cities that need 21 tiles of their own so soon. Diciding the next spot without knowing of copper and iron is hard, should we switch research that way?

grs
29-06-2006, 12:12
Site B is imho much better, since it claims the gems soon. Pop-rushing culture is no option in such a food low spot for me. We should also keep in mind, that we will not be able to get such large cities that need 21 tiles of their own so soon. Diciding the next spot without knowing of copper and iron is hard, should we switch research that way?

BCLG100
29-06-2006, 12:58
I think our next city should be making sure to grab copper/iron so research really needs to be switched towards getting one of them under our borders. Though if we're set on them 2 sites then i'd go with B

grahamiam
29-06-2006, 15:27
well, with all this jungle, it would seem that our UU would be quite useful, but that means diverting from the current research path (but we play to our strength and don't give a crap about copper). As far as cities go, either spot is fine with me, but I would like both :)

I'll be out of town from the 30th (Friday) till the 5th. Please skip me till I get back.

ProPain
02-07-2006, 11:01
If Furiey an take the game that would be great. I just returned from Rock Werchter and will be on my way to the powerfest in a few hours. I can play tomorrow foir sure.

BCLG100
06-07-2006, 02:06
Silly question but has anyone played the save yet?

i saw in another thread furiey had been ill but did you manage to get any turns done pp?

grahamiam
06-07-2006, 03:42
well, it's been 3 days so perhaps propain has time now.

Furiey
06-07-2006, 03:59
I'm OK again now, but have a fish tank to clean out tomorrow. I may be able to play tomorrow evening, but it usually takes me pretty much the whole day to do the tank so it's more likely to be Friday.

Furiey
07-07-2006, 00:36
I've finished the fish tank and it's too late to play now, but I've been having a look at the save:

Our capitol is at size 3 and will complete a Warrior and grow to size 4 in 2 turns. Our 2nd city is at size 1, on the Russian border and is building a Worker that can complete in 11 turns. Until the Horses and Cows are improved this city will only grow slowly, and will come under increasing cultural pressure from Russia. Looking at what to build after the Warrior in the capitol we could either build a Settler (12 turns currently) for another city, or perhaps a Worker (7 turns currently) allowing city 2 to build an Obelisk (10 turns) instead.

We have 7 turns to Pottery and the original plan was to go for Writing (10 turns) next. If we wanted to find out where the bronze is for our next city, Mining is 5 turns and Bronze Working 12 turns.

I'm tempted to change the build in city 2 to an obelisk and produce another worker from the capitol before another Settler this will allow us to change to Bronze Working if we wish.

I'll be able to play tomorrow evening unless propain plays first.

Furiey
08-07-2006, 17:51
T0: 2000 BC Change Tenotihaucan to Obelisk for culture; switch research for Bronze Working (Mining in 5).
IBT: Livy's Wealthies Civilizations puts us 6th with Catherine 1st, Saladin 5th and the rest unknown.

T1: 1960 BC Zzzzz
IBT: Tenotitchitlan: Warrior>Worker

T2: 1920 BC New Warrior fortifies in city
IBT: Judaisim is founded in a distant land.

T3: 1880 BC Zzzzz
IBT: Saladin adopts Organised Religion and converts to Judaism

T4: 1840 BC Zzzzz
IBT: Complete Mining start Bronze Working (due in 10)

T5: 1800 BC Worker finishes Quarry
IBT: Zzzzz

T6: 1760BC Worker starts to head for Horses with Warrior protection
IBT: Zzzzz

T7: 1720 BC Worker still heading for Horses
IBT: Tenotitchitlan: Worker>Settler

T8: 1680 BC Worker still heading for Horses; new Worker goes to mine hill for Capitol (much more growth and we will get angry citizens)
IBT: Zzzzz

T9: 1640 BC Worker reaches Horses; Barbarian Archer sighted 3 tiles from pigs in the NE; promote unit on pigs for +25% v Archers
IBT: Teotihaucan: Obelisk>Barracks (it grows in 2 turns)

T10: 1600 BC Worker is building pasture on Horses, Settler due in 6, 6 gold, Bronze Working due in 5 at 100% and -3gpt or 6 turns at 90% and 0gpt. We may want to build a Warrior before we complete the Settler so that we have enough escorts and get to see the Copper before we are ready to Settle. I must have miscounted as I thought we had enough gold to keep up research so could get straight on with the Settler but we haven't.

Save in this post (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=4249399&postcount=5)

Roster:

Kemal
BCLG100 ->
Grahamian ->
grs ->
ProPain -> up (as switched with Fur)
Furiey -> Just played
Beam -> on deck
Shabbaman


http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/Furiey/20067817107_Civ4ScreenShot0017a.jpg
118.8*KB

BCLG100
08-07-2006, 22:02
Are we just planning on sending this settler wherever we see some bronze?

Furiey
12-07-2006, 03:28
[bump] We had the discussion earlier (although I think the Russians have settled too clos to ProPain's site), but it might be useful to have a screenie when we complete bronze working to see where that Copper is.

Shabbaman
16-07-2006, 01:38
I don't think Beam is actively tracking this thread.

Beam
20-07-2006, 00:00
Reporting for duty, up tomorrow.

Beam
20-07-2006, 14:25
1440BC: Warrior on Pigs is attacked by an Archer and dies (despite Combat 1 and Archer 1). Warrior in the cap kills the Archer.

1400BC: BW, 3 sources of Copper are in the vicinity. After some pondering I decide to go for the gems spot first as Arabia already is very close to it. Start Archery.

1360BC: Settler ready, prebuild for the next settler is started, it will switch to an Archer once the tech is there.

1280BC: Settle Tlatelolco > Obelisk because it is next to Arabian borders.

1240BC: Hinduism spreads in Tlatelolco [lol]. No need for the Obelisk anymore > Rax.

1160BC: Archery. Three most useful techs are Writing (11), Pottery (7) and IW (20). Choose Pottery for the cottages as the cities will be busy with Archers / Settlers for a while. 20 turns for IW is bit to long to my liking.

A played quite a number of Emperor games and my general experience is some Archer defenses are really needed.

http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/Beam/2006720132534_aztec1160bc.jpg
149.21 KB

Shabba is up I guess!

http://forums.civfanatics.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=133107&stc=1&d=1153394948

Shabbaman
20-07-2006, 14:42
I'll play tomorrow morning.

Shabbaman
21-07-2006, 13:41
1120 b.c. [enter]

1080 b.c. Move worker to forest for chopping duty. We should switch to slavery soon.

ibt Russia asks for open borders. We have nothing to gain, so I decline. Another arabian archer/settler combo shows up, probably moving to the bronze in the north. We need to grab the bronze in the west soon.

1040 b.c. Start chopping. Science up to 90%.

1000 b.c. Archer in Teotihuacan, starts on a worker. We need more culture in Tlatelolco, the arabian border has moved over the gems.

975 b.c. Our capital grows to size 5, produces archer, starting on a settler (completed in 2). I send the archer west, for scouting. I think that's where our next city needs to be anyway.

That's 5 turns, next!

Save is here (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads12/CDZ_BC-0975.Civ4SavedGame).

BCLG100
21-07-2006, 15:17
How come we're only doing 5 turns now? (yes i appreciate this could be a stupid question but i thought i best ask)

Shabbaman
21-07-2006, 15:46
Hm, I don't know. But we have so many players that I think that if we play more turns you don't get to see the game that often.

BCLG100
21-07-2006, 15:48
Oh right ok, i dont mind i was just wondering-making sure i'd do the same

Shabbaman
21-07-2006, 16:20
Well, I was wondering myself as well. It could just as well be that Beam found it too warm to play longer.

Furiey
21-07-2006, 17:16
I think Beam only reported the turns when anything happened, considering I left it on 1600 BC and Beam left it on 1160 BC I think that makes 11 turns.

So that you all know, I'm going to be away from Monday 24 until 8 August on holiday in Egypt so no Civ! You'll have to skip me if I come up.

grahamiam
21-07-2006, 17:53
I'm out of town Friday thru Sunday, please skip me if I'm up.

BCLG100
21-07-2006, 18:18
You want to play another 5 turns then shabba?

graham should i take on the rock on turns if we actually get any?

grahamiam
21-07-2006, 18:44
yes, please take my turns in Rock On :)

Kemal -> UP
BCLG100 -> on deck
Grahamiam -> away till 7/24
grs
ProPain
Furiey
Beam
Shabbaman

Shabbaman
30-07-2006, 19:14
Kemal's on holiday as well.

Beam
30-07-2006, 19:23
I'll be on holiday from 2 - 20 august.

BCLG100
30-07-2006, 19:32
Ok i'll play 10 turns now. i figure i should seeing as we skipped kemal but any objections post soonish.

BCLG100
31-07-2006, 03:03
Ok i might have played 9 turns but meh

Anywhoo

Pre flight check-noticed we are doing pretty poorly on the power scales so figured during my time i should build us at least some of a military

IBT-nothing

950 BC- Archer near tlateloco fortified there, one of the workers that was around teotihuan sent up towards it.
Worker at tenoch sent to work stone

IBT-not much

925-pottery- i figure we need the libraries and also an ability to spread hindu so go for writing-due in 10
Settler in tenoch sent after Archer
Cottages built elsewhere

IBT-Nada

900BC- Settler/archer combo now in what i see as the best settling position

IBT-big pile of nothing

875 BC- Dun da dum Simons Spot is founded
http://img87.imageshack.us/img87/7185/civ4screenshot0071ly7.jpg
obelisk set as we need to get that copper under borders-i would have built immediatly on the copper or around it but there was a barb city below it so no huge rush for the copper to be within borders with our horses

Teoti- Archer built-settler ordered
Pyramids are built in a foreign land
Tenoch border exp

IBT-....

850BC-Tenoch-archer built chariot set

IBT..

825 BC-Worker at tlatelco sent to start chopping jungle around gems (would later realise we dont have IW so just builds a road from the gems to the city)
worker @ teo continues his cottaging way

IBT-jewish missionary spotted at the borders of teo

800 BC- teo built chariot-chariot-set

IBT-jewish missionary moved closer to cathy's lands

775 BC- Chariot in tenoc built-another set

rax completed in tlat-work started automatically on an obelisk so i switch to another worker-should come in handy when we can finally chop all that jungle around it.

IBT-not much-think the missionary moved out of sight

750BC-stopped

We are still very behind militarily.

science has gone down to 40% all be if we run at 50% we only lose 1gpt

We also havnt switched to slavery-i found this weird us being a religious civ and all but i left it to the next player to decide whether we do or not-i say we do with tenoch reaching happiness limit i have had to set it on grow no further-something that someone will have to take off in the future :D. This means we can probably start pop rushing in the city.

BCLG100
31-07-2006, 03:23
Kemal
BCLG100---->just played
Grahamiam -> Up
grs -----> On Deck
ProPain
Furiey
Beam
Shabbaman

grahamiam
31-07-2006, 15:07
sorry, didn't see this. will try tonight

Shabbaman
31-07-2006, 15:16
Instead of that obelisk I'd have waited 8 turns (and build a worker, probably), and then chop the two forests next to the river to finish a library.

BCLG100
31-07-2006, 21:02
Well its only a few turns in so someone can change it if they wish, just i figured we had enough workers (3 with one being produced)

Shabbaman
31-07-2006, 22:16
That sounds like enough workers.

BCLG100
01-08-2006, 00:07
Knew i forgot to do something

here's the save- http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads12/CDZ_BC-0750.Civ4SavedGame

i hope

grahamiam
01-08-2006, 05:30
Preflight check: looks ok, will try to get a road up to the copper town. Will also keep building the oblisk so we can get the copper in our cross.

IBT: Teno chariot -> archer (it grew to 6 and is unhappy now, so MM to river hill that's being mined); Teot chariot -> granery

T1: 725 AD Notice that one of the barb archers in the city to the W is injured. Someone's attacking it. Decide to give the archer in Teno a Guerilla upgrade and to send him W to explore.

IBT:

T2: 700 AD archer heading SW

IBT: Catherine converts to Jeudeism. Crap

T3: 675 AD nada

IBT: Writing -> Alpha; Teno archer -> Lib

T4: 650 AD worker starts building a cottage on the plains tile next to Teno. Archer heads NW to cover worker roading. Chariot in Teot heads NW to capitol as there's a barb archer moving towards us.

IBT: Catherine Adopts Hereditery rule

T5: 625 AD nada

IBT: exploring archer finds coast to the W

T6: 600 AD

IBT:

T7: 575 AD MM Teno onto a river-plains cottage tile. It is doing -1fpt, so it needs to be MM'd back in 8T.

IBT: CG1 Archer in Simon's Spot defeats Barb Archer

T8: 550 AD Sign an open border agreement with Catherine. Saladin won't sign as we are his worst enemy [eek] Next player should really concentrate on military.

IBT: Teot granery -> Chariot

T9: 525 AD Adopt Slavery as we seem to have ignored that. Could prove useful.
Cathy has axes. One is moving towards a barb city.

IBT:

T10: 500 AD Exploring Archer is now S of Cathy. MM Teno to cottage on river grass. Lib due in 1T, alpha due in 14T.
Rice near Simon's spot is now irrigated. 2 workers are nearby, so we can probably quickly road the copper as well as mine a grass hill. Pop limit is 3 due to happiness.

Barbs have 4 archers in the town to the W, so expect another unit to come our way next turn.

Archers in Simon's Spot can be promoted.

Diplo: Cathy dislikes us, Saladin hates us.

Research/Treasury: Alpha in 14t, +1gpt, 27g in the bank. Perhaps we should go for Meditation for the Missionaries so we can convert Cathy? Or at least spread Taoism? Or just finish Alpha and trade for it?

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v645/grahamiam/Civ4ScreenShot0048.jpg

the save -> http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads12/CDZ-BC-0500.zip

grs
01-08-2006, 10:02
I got it.

grs
03-08-2006, 20:10
I have to pass this turn.

BCLG100
03-08-2006, 20:19
Kemal
BCLG100
Grahamiam
grs
ProPain----> up
Furiey---->on Deck
Beam
Shabbaman

So thats where we're at now

ProPain
07-08-2006, 22:54
woops, totally forgot about this. Me is ashamed very, very, very much.

My sincere apologies to all of you and if you're still willing to have me onboard I'll be a good boy and play in time. I see I'm still up but this week is my last before my holiday and I have a lot of work to do before the holiday kicks in so I humbly request to skip me/push me backwards in the schedule at this moment. Friday is the start of my two weeks of leisure and I'll be available a lot then. Will check here regularly also from now.

Again, my apologies for totally screwing up here.

BCLG100
07-08-2006, 22:58
Well erm looks like its back to you shabba (read somewhere else furiey was away) that and beam posted elsewhere he was away.
Kemal------. on deck
BCLG1000
Grahamiam
grs
ProPain
Furiey
Beam
Shabbaman---->>>>Up

Shabbaman
07-08-2006, 23:15
Nice, I'll play tomorrow afternoon. We need a better bump mechanism btw, how about sending a PM to the next turn player?

BCLG100
07-08-2006, 23:22
We could do that yes, how about the person who played last should inform the next person.

Shabbaman
08-08-2006, 18:57
I'm short in time, so I can't play a lot today.

IBT: I see an barb archer moving out of Etruscan

475 b.c. Tenochtitlan builds chariot, starting on another.

450 b.c. Teotihuacan builds chariot, starts on another. I whip an obelisk with 1 turn left in SS. Kill the barbarian archer with a chariot and win.

425 b.c. Tenochtitlan builds chariot. It's now building a granary, done in 5. By then it could be producing axemen. SS completes obelisk, starts on granary.

400 b.c. Tlatelalco builds worker, wants to continue on an obelisk. It's got 1 hammer in it, and it seems kind of pointless since the city already has culture from hinduism. Undecided between a granary and a library, but I go with the library as whipping might make it easier to finish the library.

375 b.c. Teotihuacan builds chariot. Let's make another! I kill a barb archer with a chariot, move a chariot stack next to Etruscan. I see a russian stack of two approaching Etruscan, I think it's smart to let them soften the defenses.

IBT We're CDZ the mediocre, culturally speaking. Etruscan archer attacks stack and is defeated.

350 b.c. not. much.

IBT Cathys axe wins, but we still have poor chances against Etruscan. About 25%. I have to go at this point, so I save and leave it open for discussion.

Save is here (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads12/cdz-bc-0325.rar). BTW, Propain, if you're reading this: fixing the CDZ upload should have some priority on your to-do list.

Kemal's up!

Kemal
09-08-2006, 10:56
Just a quick note to say that I am aware that it is my turn now (thanks Shabba for the PM), but I'm swamped with stuff to do the next few days. I might be able to sneak in some turn tomorrow evening, if that is too long a wait someone else can play in the meantime, if he wishes. :)

BCLG100
09-08-2006, 21:22
I can play some turns but i'd like it if someone else did.

are we going to keep etruscan should we capture it?

Shabbaman
09-08-2006, 21:38
I think we should. It looks like a decent spot, and there's no room for us to settle.
For the moment the question is if we should attack it with those chances. Chariots have a withdrawal chance, and some of those chariots have flanking (?, the upgrade with withdrawal chance).

BCLG100
11-08-2006, 17:35
ok well seems Kemal couldnt get round to playing so i'll play 10

BCLG100
11-08-2006, 17:43
or rather i would love too but Shabba what the heck is a .rar file? can you not just upload the save?

Kemal
11-08-2006, 17:45
Sorry about the additional delay yesterday, I am available this evening to play a full turnset though.

@BCLG: .rar can be unpacked using winrar or similar programs to produce the .sav file.

BCLG100
11-08-2006, 17:50
oh ok well i'll just leave you to play it if you dont mind kemal?

not sure if i have winrar

Kemal
11-08-2006, 17:53
That's fine with me, though I won't be able to play until 19:00 CET though.

Kemal
11-08-2006, 20:02
I've just taken a look at the save, and being completely honest I think the situation looks grim, and our prospects aren't very good.

Considering our military status and diplomatic standing on our continent, we are in immediate danger of being attacked by one or both our neighbours, and we aren't prepared at all.

While some of our problems have "natural" causes (our geograpic location in the middle is really poor, for example), I think we may have run into some problems due to the fact that we have been playing with so many people without having had many moments of discussion between the members of the team (counting myself as the biggest culprit here as I've not kept myself up to date on this game in such a manner that I could join any discussions) and as a result it seems we've not been able to set long term goals and strategies but have fallen into ad-hoc leadership.

Since this is "the learning game", I'd like to pose some points that could merit further discussion, where I'd like to stress that it doesn;t mean that these points have necessarily gone wrong in this game or should have been done differently by those responsible; I do think that there are game-defining strategic choices embedded in these points of interest that can sway games into one side or the other.

These points include:

- What do people feel in this game is the actual philosophy behind researching an expensive tech like alphabet?

- What are the actual effects Hinduism has on our civilization at the moment? Do these benefits weigh up against the negatives, and what could be done to maximize the good parts of having a state religion while minimizing the drawbacks?

- What are the strong points of the land immediately surrounding the capital, and what are the weaknesses? How can we combat and counter the weak parts while maximizing the effect of the strong points?

- What's the strong point of our military, and how does that stand up against the possibilities the enemy has regarding military production?


I think that these 4 points are playing vital roles in the way this game has panned out so far, and it might be useful to find out what might have been done differently and what (possible better) results that could have given, and on the other hand illustrate in what fields we have done well and could be classified as "the right move" in this situation.

I'll be posting my own thoughs on the 4 points mentioned later this evening, but I thought it might be wise to put them down here in advance for everyone to read, with the hopes that it might result in a better understanding of the game we've played so far.

If anyone wants to reply and give their thoughts on these points, feel free to do so (whether you're a member of the team or not doesn't matter I think, though having a look at the game would help). After all, discussing why certain choices or moves are made is the most interesting and informative way of becoming a better player, imho. :)

(That reminds me... why am I not in the civ4 demogame team? [crazyeye])

BCLG100
11-08-2006, 20:16
Just to answer number 1- i think the belief is that we can get Alpha and then trade it but thinking about it we only know 2 people who arnt our bestest friends right now so they might not want to trade anything with us.

Kemal
11-08-2006, 22:02
I think you're right on that BCLG, it seems to as well that Alphabet is going to be a useless tech to us in the sense of tech trading since our diplomatic standing is way too bad to allow tech trading on a decent scale, especially with so few contacts.

The reason behind the diplomatic hole we are currently in is the fact that we've isolated ourselves by using Hinduism as a state religion while having allowed both Russia and Arabia to convert to monotheism. The fact that they do share the same religion makes matters even worse, since they have now formed a block against our civ making it a 2v1.

I believe we may have underestimated the importance of religion in this game a bit so far. At the moment, the sole benefit we get from Hinduism is one happy face in all our towns plus a tiny bit of cultural output, while it totally negates our possibility to conduct business with other civs on our continent and has put us in a direct danger of going to war.

Since I started the game and converted to Hinduism before you all could have had a say in it, I forced the religion element upon the team and blew the safe route of not converting at all, which means no advantages but also no disadvantages.

Since we therefore had to live with possible disadvantages, maximizing the benefits and minimizing the disadvantages is an important aspect of the game. One of the prime advantages of having a state religion - imho - is access to the very powerful organized religion civic, which sees a 25% increase in hammer output on the production of buildings, effectively making all granaries/libs/barracks and other structures we have build 25% cheaper.

Another big advantage of org. religion is that it allows to build missionaries without monastery, i.e. it becomes easy to force a religion upon another civ by spreading your own fast, which potentially gives you a long lasting ally in the game, and negates the heathen religion effect we are facing now. Granted, especially on higher difficulties it can be difficult to convert other civs to your religion, but the 25% production bonus itself makes monotheism a high priority tech in games like these, I think. And since we are a religious civ, we can easily ditch the civic again and return to paganism during times we have little or no need for the special bonuses, and avoid having to pay the high upkeep.

As to the game in hand atm, I think we might want to consider switching to Judaism ourselves asap, and to achieve this capturing Etruskan and hoping that Judaism spreads there via the Russians is a major goal. Once we switch we are immediately out of danger of being attacked and can utilize alphabet, once we research it.

Another strong point for monotheism, in my view, would have been that it opens up the way to monarchy. Looking at the lay of the lands around us, we had pigs, cows, rice and fish in our immediate surroundings, giving huge health and food bonuses to our cities, meaning the only restricting factor on huge cities is happiness.

Since we have no easy luxury resource, we keep being stuck at size 4 for almost all cities, thereby wasting the food and health advantage of our start. So in this case, I believe that hereditary rule would have been an excellent civic to pursue early on and take a lead in growth and therefore economic output on other civs. Unlimited happiness would come at 15h/pop by building cheap warriors.

Alternatively, since monarchy is quite some time away, IW could be considered as not only do we have a ton of jungle around some of our cities, there is also some very strong gem resouces underneath these jungles. We have had BW for a long time I think, and IW is only a short step after that. Also, our UU opens up at IW, and while it is one of the weakest in the game in general, in these jungle filled lands the jag is quite a potent unit, especially since it starts with combat 1 anyway.

Which brings me to conclude my thoughts on the game on our military apparatus: our army almost solely consists of chariots, which in itself is too weak to offensively take out any unit past the really early game (warriors and unpromoted archer it might handle, nothing after that), and also does not profit from our aggressive trait.

What is more, both Arabia and Russia have access to copper and are capable of producing a deadly counterunit to our mounted chariots, the spearman, making the offensive capabilities of our army about zero. Since we had no easy copper access, axemen were out for an early offense anyway, but if we wanted to have a strong army, in this case I feel we should either have gone for jags, or alternatively focus on being prepared to fend off an enemy attack and build archers. The chariots don't really serve any purpose at all atm, since even warriors with shock would have been a better investment to cope with barb archers.

Again, these are simply my views on how I think we are doing in some crucial elements of the game, which of course does not make them the right ones, or the choice made bad ones per se. I would however very much want to hear some input on these thoughts from the other team members, as to see what their views are on this, on what points you (dis)agree, and to learn something out of it and get to a cohesive general strategy.

So whether you agree with my views or not, please post away! :)

ProPain
12-08-2006, 00:26
What your post tells me most is that I my Civ4 knowlegde is close to nothing and that I already learned a lot about some game mechanisms by just reading it.

Kemal
12-08-2006, 01:05
I've played 5 turns so far, will play another 5 tomorrow and post some pics.

We've captured Etruskan with no losses as Cathy did all the work, but unfortunately indeed miss out on trading opportunities. I think I'll gear research to the fastest way to monarchy now?

BCLG100
12-08-2006, 04:46
yer monarchy is probs best


//OT took me 10 minutes to type in the damn addy for this site! who knew so many letters could get so misplaced when typing with your eues closed.

Shabbaman
12-08-2006, 11:37
That's a lot of text Kemal.

quote:Originally posted by Kemal


- What do people feel in this game is the actual philosophy behind researching an expensive tech like alphabet?


Good question. Actually, I thought we were aiming for the oracle? Personally I only research alphabet early when I need calender desperately (if I remember the tech tree correctly). Grahamian switched to alpha, perhaps he can elaborate on his choice. I must say that with the lack of discussion at that stage even a completely random tech choice would've been logical... doesn't alpha enable tech trading? Grahamian mentions in the same turnset that switching to meditation would be an option. I agree completely: as we have a religion, we should have monasteries. As I played the next (half a) turnset in quite some hurry, I take the blame for not reading that advice.

quote:Originally posted by Kemal


- What are the actual effects Hinduism has on our civilization at the moment? Do these benefits weigh up against the negatives, and what could be done to maximize the good parts of having a state religion while minimizing the drawbacks?

The AI's coming after us anyway, if we're changing religion or not. If we can get them to spread judaism in our cities that's ok: more monasteries.

quote:Originally posted by Kemal


- What are the strong points of the land immediately surrounding the capital, and what are the weaknesses? How can we combat and counter the weak parts while maximizing the effect of the strong points?

It's pretty good, but it's no Great People generator. With 4 riverside grasslands, two hills, the stone and the sheep we can get a high production there. The strongest point are the forests: good enough to grab an early wonder. We might be past that point, but Hanging Gardens (with stone!) is a good option. But then the bad part shows: we need luxuries. We could still whip the extra pop, heh.

quote:Originally posted by Kemal


- What's the strong point of our military, and how does that stand up against the possibilities the enemy has regarding military production?


Do we have strong points? We need to hook up that bronze and get us some axes and spears or we're doomed!

quote:Originally posted by Kemal


(That reminds me... why am I not in the civ4 demogame team? [crazyeye])


That's what everyone else is wondering as well [luke2] (great smiley, pretty damn useless though).

Kemal
12-08-2006, 12:08
quote:Originally posted by Shabbaman

That's a lot of text Kemal.

quote:Originally posted by Kemal


- What do people feel in this game is the actual philosophy behind researching an expensive tech like alphabet?


Good question. Actually, I thought we were aiming for the oracle? Personally I only research alphabet early when I need calender desperately (if I remember the tech tree correctly). Grahamian switched to alpha, perhaps he can elaborate on his choice. I must say that with the lack of discussion at that stage even a completely random tech choice would've been logical... doesn't alpha enable tech trading? Grahamian mentions in the same turnset that switching to meditation would be an option. I agree completely: as we have a religion, we should have monasteries. As I played the next (half a) turnset in quite some hurry, I take the blame for not reading that advice.


I do think alphabet can be a very viable early tech path if you are certain you will have friends and allies nearby with whom to trade the early cheap techs you missed. Obviously that wasn't going to be the case with 2 civs loathing our heathen way of life.

Don't know about the monasteries though, I actually think that temples might provide us with more benefit atm since our civilization is choking because of severe happiness problems. We have unworked cottages, mines etc while rioters are populating the streets, 2 cities have been put at "force no growth" already. Once the cities grow, monasteries become powerful, but getting them to grow first is imho top priority.

quote:Originally posted by Shabbaman
quote:Originally posted by Kemal


- What are the actual effects Hinduism has on our civilization at the moment? Do these benefits weigh up against the negatives, and what could be done to maximize the good parts of having a state religion while minimizing the drawbacks?

The AI's coming after us anyway, if we're changing religion or not. If we can get them to spread judaism in our cities that's ok: more monasteries.


I have to disagree there. With the heathen religion modifier removed and the brother of the faith modifier added, we might reach as far as "friendly" diplo ratings with at least one of our neighbours, when adding in that open borders/resource trading and tech trading will also all give us additional modifiers, and the fact that our religious trait allows us to match favourite civics with our neighbours at will, adding another possible +5 modifier. The only reason we are not getting there atm is because our religious differences prevent us from entering negotiations in the first place.
Again, I'm heavily in favour of matchin the AIs religion as soon as any opportunity arises. Getting them to spread Judaism to us is a real problem though, we may need a little luck now.

quote:Originally posted by Shabbaman
quote:Originally posted by Kemal


- What are the strong points of the land immediately surrounding the capital, and what are the weaknesses? How can we combat and counter the weak parts while maximizing the effect of the strong points?

It's pretty good, but it's no Great People generator. With 4 riverside grasslands, two hills, the stone and the sheep we can get a high production there. The strongest point are the forests: good enough to grab an early wonder. We might be past that point, but Hanging Gardens (with stone!) is a good option. But then the bad part shows: we need luxuries. We could still whip the extra pop, heh.


Agreed, the production values of tenochtitlan are quite good, and the stone could have netted us a wonder or may do so in the future (Hanging Gardens being the best option there, agreeing again).
However, I was also referring to the lands outside our city roster, where our next few cities were going to be located. I think we could have pursued happiness generators earlier in the game and perhaps played from a stronger position in the present. If no early luxes are around, monarchy can be a real life-saver especially with lots of food resources around.
And as you mention already, in relation with the HG, we absolutely need more happiness first before we can utilize this wonder. I concur though that aiming for this wonder is a good medium range objective.

quote:Originally posted by Shabbaman
quote:Originally posted by Kemal


- What's the strong point of our military, and how does that stand up against the possibilities the enemy has regarding military production?


Do we have strong points? We need to hook up that bronze and get us some axes and spears or we're doomed!


Or alternatively, make sure we are such good friends with our neighbours that investing heavily in military is not an immediate concern, and that resources can be focused on domestic builds. But I agree we may be past that point now..

quote:Originally posted by Shabbaman
quote:Originally posted by Kemal


(That reminds me... why am I not in the civ4 demogame team? [crazyeye])


That's what everyone else is wondering as well [luke2] (great smiley, pretty damn useless though).


Should have entered the team a lot earlier when it was just starting, but I was without my free civ4 copy at that time [rolleyes]. Oh well, just remember all my easy-to-read worker schedules and combat maps... I think you're all glad you don't have to cope with that anymore.. ;)

Kemal
12-08-2006, 12:32
Just fired up civ4 for the last 5 turns, and immediately I'm contacted by Cathy for an exchanhe of Maths vs Alpha. I'm sure this is a one-shot deal as we are still at annoyed with cathy, and hovering over Maths reveals "we will never trade with you, our worst enemies", so haggling about it will almost certainly put maths "in the red" again. This must be some kind of bug, those beta-tester really should do their jobs better....

Anyway, it's a 390 vs 468 science deal, and it will open up tech trading for Russia with the Arabs... however I think we should take it anyway, not only for a possible +1 diplo mofidier but also for the chopping bonus can be invaluable to speed up army production once we connect copper. Already one Russian axe is advancing towards our lands in a somewhat ominous manner... And we have no defenses ready.

Kemal
12-08-2006, 13:55
Turns played, I took the trade since it seemed like a good deal.

Here are some pics from the past few turns:

We captured Etruscan in 300 BC without losses thanks to Russia softening up the defenders, looting 71g. I decided to keep the city despite extra upkeep.

http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/Kemal/2006812124544_Etruskan.jpg
51.97*KB

Tech research on alpha was completed and I took priesthood next, as it was the cheapest on the road to monarchy. Monotheism could have been done as well but looking at our domestic builds having been completed for a large part already, org. religion seemed of less value, and the increased upkeep would hinder us in reaching monarchy asap.
No tech trades were possible, unfortunately.

Next few turns were quite uneventful, Taoism was founded in a distant land and the Parthenon was also completed in the meantime... the Russians, after losing out on Etruscan, starting moving back to their own lands, except that after the trade, they suddenly reversed course again, one axe was heading to Tenochtitlan and another combo of axe/spear was moving around in the jungle south of us. They did not declare war but started moving through our lands rather aimlessly.

We got a lucky break at around 150 BC as Judaism spread in Simon's Spot!

http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/Kemal/2006812124944_JudaismSS.jpg
46.74*KB

I converted to Judaism despite losing even more happiness because of this, to put some pressure of our back from our neighbours. It paid off with us now having signed open borders with Arabia, and having being able to trade for IW and fishing with the Arabs for Alphabet. Iron is located just outside Tenochtitlan.

We're now at cautious (+1) with both leaders, But it might have been too little too late, as Russian troop activity continues to increase, this is a pic from the latest turn with some sort of Mini-SoD having appeared on the Russian borders:

http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/Kemal/200681212549_ivegotabadfeelingaboutthis.jpg
75.26*KB

With copper connected we're building axes to counter, but it might be we'll need plenty of luck in the next couple of turns... [sad]

It seems the save is too big to upload. [confused]
Anyone an idea how to fix this? I can use regular mail of course, but not all players will be able to look at the save that way..

Shabbaman
12-08-2006, 14:00
Chop chop.

Even friendly AI's with the same religion attack you when you're weak and they're out of space to expand. All you have to do is refuse tribute once. I see how we can avoid war by switching religions, but to ensure that we should switch to judaism. And that's not a real possibility, I think.
But we're spiritual, right? So we could switch to no state religion anyway. It only means we have to whip some more pop.

EDIT: crosspost. Looks like you've played well :)

EDIT2: about the upload, yeah, this site is t3h s0xxorz. You can zip/rar it and upload it at CFC, although TF won't like that.
About the russians, can we sign open borders with them? They might just be wandering about...

Kemal
12-08-2006, 14:08
I've already switched to Judaism, since any modifier is better than no modifier from no state religion I guess?

Don't fully agree with your statement on AI-behaviour though. I've played quite some games on high difficulty where I managed to stay on friendly terms with very strong and aggressive AIs as neighbour until SS launch simply by making sure I didn't offend them in any way and was firmly lodged into their "power block". Of course, there have also been cases where I was attacked despite +6 or +7 modifiers, but those cases have been rare, whereas with -5 modifiers on my neighbours, I've never been not attacked.
Thing that worries me most here is that the Russian troops were already on the move before we switched to their religion, so I fear they have a path set already. [sad]

But that's just my experience of course, and it is almost always better to be prepared for the worst. I do believe in an effect of power blocks and good relations with the AI though, a thing missing in all previous incarnations of civ.

Also, I almost never refuse to give tribute to an AI, especially when it's my neighbour. The permanent diplo modifier is, imho, almost always worth more than the stuff they ask for.

Still stuck with posting the save though.

edit: x-posting galore it seems.

We have open borders with Russia already, I was kinda hoping they might be after a barb city I though I spotted in the far north (one black tile could be seen there). Arabs might already have captured that in the meantime though...

I'll post the save at CFC anyway then, hopefully TF will be lenient..

edit2: I thought we had a topic at CFC as well about this game... can't find it though. File has been uploaded in the upload12 folder at CFC, but perhaps I should just mail it to BCLG then... if I had his mail address. :)

edit3: save sent via regular mail to BCLG. :)

Shabbaman
12-08-2006, 14:18
I didn't think it was possible switching to judaism, but obv. that's the better choice.
It might just as well be that I'm really good at annoying the AI. Yeah, that must be it. Like I said, it's smart to give in to demands, but most of the time I don't. But in single player that's never a bad thing, I play safer in a SG I guess.

You're probably right about that set path, I really hate that about civ4.

P.S. Crossposting rules.

BCLG100
12-08-2006, 21:20
I think if they do make a declaration of war i may have to make a tactical withdrawel from Estruscan-the spears coupled with the defensive bonus of the jungles means ill be able to do next to nothing as they run straight through us.

BCLG100
13-08-2006, 17:40
Ok i played my set-were not dead is the positive from it :)

So pre flight check- when did we get an archer in the south??? anywhoo he went wandering
use the chariot to have a looksee in st petersburg
http://img133.imageshack.us/img133/1402/stpetersburg50bckx1.jpg

<IBT> Not much-except Cathy's troops turn around!
http://img65.imageshack.us/img65/5453/theyaboutturnedid7.jpg[/URL]

50BC- We gain access to Iron in tenoch
pop an axe in tenoch
Saladin however seems to be building up a few units (not sure if its just city defence...
http://img65.imageshack.us/img65/5562/ssmallforceju7.jpg

<IBT> Not much

25BC-Axe completed in tenoch-another started

<IBT>nope

1AD- Rax in SS completed so i build an axe
Axes being built in Teo and Tench also

<IBT>no

25AD-Workers are wandering around doing worker like things

<IBT>Nada

50AD-Axe finished in SS switch it to research as were running a negative gpt with all the axes and little money still lower to 40% but i disband a couple of strength one warriors(only really any use under heridetary rule which we dont yet)

<IBT>gain access to gems!

75AD-Axe in tenoch another ordered

<IBT>Kong Miao built elsewhere

100AD-Research switched to Work Boat in SS (figure we could do a little exploring=maybe work the fishes)

<IBT> Not much

125AD-Even Less

<IBT>Very little

150AD-boooooooring

<IBT>.....

175AD- WB in SS sent to explore-we dont need the extra health just yet
axe in tenoch

<IBT> notice some russian movement

http://img125.imageshack.us/img125/701/russianforcestd4.jpg(theres the chance its heading towards Saladin...

200AD- Get Monarchy and switch to Hereditry rule
Want cats so go for construction
We have got quite a number of troops in Tlat
http://img107.imageshack.us/img107/336/ourforcesintlatti4.jpg

Ok and heres the save-can send you it if you need grs
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads12/CDZ_AD-0200.Civ4SavedGame

BCLG100
14-08-2006, 22:52
Kemal
BCLG100---->just played
Grahamiam--->up
grs------>on deck
ProPain
Furiey
Beam
Shabbaman

grs
14-08-2006, 23:04
Pre-turn: Set research to zero as it has no value to research slower than 100%. Cancel mining of jungle hills.

IBT: Cathy declares.

225AD: Start to road our south. Axe dies to sword, axe kills spear, chariot kills sword, steal a worker.

IBT: Lose a chariot.

250AD: --

IBT: --

275AD: 7 axes kill 1 axe, 4 swords and 2 spears.

IBT: Lose chariot

300AD: Axe kills spear, axe dies to sword, axe kills sword.

IBT: Axe defends vs. axe, axe dies to axe.

325AD: Axe kills axe.

IBT: Archer defends vs. sword, axe vs. spear.

350AD: 4 axes kill 2 axes, 1 sword and 1 spear.

IBT: --

375AD: --

400 AD: Axe kills axe, axe kills sword.

IBT: --

425AD: --

IBT: --

450AD: Just fortify units, Cathy has feudalism now, only short before we could have attacked

Afterwords: We can start construction at 100% next turn, but Saladin already has it. We are way back in tech. It seems hard to attack Cathy now that she has longbows, but on the other hand we will not get a chance again later on. Have an eye on city growth and garrision; remember we are in Hereditary Rule.

Novgorod
<pic at cfc>

Moscow
<pic at cfc>

We could try to sneak this double guerillia archer to the iron, but probably futile.
<pic at cfc>

<save at cfc>

grs
14-08-2006, 23:05
Ops, I read your mail from yesterday as I was up, anyways so graham and I switched ;)

ProPain
15-08-2006, 10:49
is graham picking this up? o/w I can do tonight/this afternoon.

About the uploads to this site, it remains a problem caused by Snitz, dunno what to do about it frankly. I have new domains and I'd like to switch to VB asap now but I;m a total noob were migrating dbases is concerned, will pm dr A about this.

Darkness
15-08-2006, 11:02
quote:Originally posted by Kemal


(That reminds me... why am I not in the civ4 demogame team? [crazyeye])


Indeed. Why aren't you? ;)

You haven't missed much anyway. We're at turn 9 or so... :)

Shabbaman
15-08-2006, 11:03
Do that please. Dr. A. should be available, since he quit KoC and hasn't even picked up hattrick. If he starts complaining about his work, tell him to stop whining ;)

grahamiam
15-08-2006, 15:36
Propain, if you can play tonight, that's fine with me. I'll play after you as I'm up in sgotm2 tonight

ProPain
15-08-2006, 15:47
will play tonight and I PM'ed Dr. A.

ProPain
16-08-2006, 21:37
picked up and playing, some delay due to personal bad planning.

ProPain
16-08-2006, 22:30
pre-preturn

Move my ass over to CFC, find the thread, locate the save, study the pics. Pics say: wont be easy turns with those stacks. Hopefully cathy will keep those troops close to home. Take a closer look and discover some of those stacks are ours :D Phew.
next hurdle: opening the save. It turns out the load menu does not access the desktop, damn fine thinking ahead firaxis. Alt-tab to desktop, click my way to saves folder, move save and create a shortcut on desktop for future use.
Load save, wait a while and

Pre-turn
My, my this looks like a new game, whats this called again, Civ 4 you say. ;)

Look around the menus a bit and notice:
-Cathy has had a fall in her power graph. Maybe she had a little war with a civ unknown to us as saladin isnt showing and spikes/falls in his.Wouldnt know where that other civ would be then though. Study the map a bit more, maybe south east of yaroslav: there's land going into the FoW and yaroslav is islamic instead of judish. Dont know if that means anything though. maybe it's just barbs that rattled her a bit.
-Cathy is has suffered a fall in production and atm we're outproducing her. So should we be able to hold outin the short run we might have a chance
-Money- and foodwise, Cathy is kicking our little behinds and accelerating away from us.

Cathy wont talk to us, so I press enter full of expectations.

IT
nothing. Cathy seems content just watching our troops :D

turn 1
The way I see it attacking in our current position is plain suicide but later we might not have any chance at all I read from previous posts.
I decide to stack and fort on the moscow hill, hopefully cathy will refrain from attacking like she did last IT. I pillage the hills just to annoy her, promote 2 axes on 25%archers as I see Cathy has some archers and longbowmen.
move axes to front. Press end of turn.

IT
nothing

turn 2
MOve some axes to front, up the research which I forgot to do the last turn. Sorry people. Try and talk to Cathy and - low and behold - she's willing to talk!
Stop playing now, cause I dont know what's best: war or peace. I'm thinking peace might be in or best interest, we can regroup, make a decent SoD and cripple Saladin or Cathy, but I cant judge the future implications very well so I'd like all you opinions on it.

PAUSED:)

Kemal
16-08-2006, 23:35
Hmm, if possible, could you upload the save somewhere? (Dunno if admins can put files on the server directly...)

It would be easier to give opinions if we can see the exact situation, as you already mentioned it's very tense at the moment so getting an absolute crystal clear view of the game is critical.

Looks like you're getting a hang of the game pretty fast though. On Cathy, I think the power loss is because of grs's butchering a few turns ago, and the prod loss could perhaps be a result of a shift in civics, or in Cathy's build queues... as some civics give a lot of extra production depending on what you're building.

ProPain
17-08-2006, 00:54
Ah yes, upload power me has that. Also thought up a short term solution on this problem. we can use another forum on this server that does allow upload or I can temp install a VB version as well. Will get back on that.

Will try and upload tonight but it takes some comp swapping, dunno if I'll manage that quickly, bedtime you see.

grahamiam
17-08-2006, 15:19
I'm going to need a skip. I'm going away this weekend and won't have time tonight

ProPain
17-08-2006, 16:19
Well, spent the better part of the day getting FTP fro CDZ fixed. Hope we wont suffer from the usual glitches that occur after password changes.

the save:


Download Attachment: /forum/icon_paperclip.gif /ProPain/CDZ_AD-0500-peaceoffer.zip (http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/ProPain/CDZ_AD-0500-peaceoffer.zip)





This is not a save to take over the turn, just to check the situation and judge on the peace offer

Kemal
17-08-2006, 16:22
I get a document not found error I'm afraid..

Shabbaman
17-08-2006, 16:30
PP, I think you have to remove the space from the name of the savegame.

ProPain
17-08-2006, 21:21
removed the space.

grahamiam
17-08-2006, 21:38
Not Found
The requested document was not found on this server.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Web Server at civ3duelzone.com

ProPain
17-08-2006, 23:23
renamed, [name].zip to solve the problem. Not a zip thus,just rename

ProPain
19-08-2006, 12:44
well, no real discussion revolving, Kemal on MSN excepted. I;m gonna take the folowing course of action:

- make peace with Cathy
- Regroup and try to take a few cities of Saladin

ProPain
19-08-2006, 13:41
turn 2 - continued

Make peace with Cathy, check if deals are possible and she's ok with trading wines. I have the choice of giving horses, fish and gems.
I'm thinking horses are to dangerous military wise, that leaves fish and gems: health vs happiness. I decide health is the less dangerous to us and trade fish.
Our costs drop from 50 to 43.

Start moving our troops to Salas border. 2 small towns (Najran and Baghdad) are defended weakly with 2 archers only, Damascus has 6 troops including 3 archers. I decide to make Najran prioriry no1 as it's located on our borders so we can attack from our own ground. Send SoD that came from Moscow to border with Damascus to fight off incoming and maybe have a shot at Dam. itself.

Start roading sugar to connect it to our empire. Check to see if we're in paganism on Kemal's request: we are.

IT
Saladin retreats a settler/2 archers combo from our territory into Najran. BUmmer as it ups his defenses.

turn 3
some axes are finished and moved towards Najran. Keeping up the unit build, we want to hit saladin hard.

IT
Homer is born in a faraway land.

turn 4
move troops. get open borders with Cathy so I can move our southern explorer out of harms way of some barb swords.

IT
Zzzz

turn 5
3 new axes done, mOve troops.

IT
Saladin adopts Vasalage. He's got Feuda, not good!

turn 6
Troops move. We now have 10 axes, 3 chariots rdy to take on Najran next turn. 3 axes will reinforce next turn. Njaran has 4 archers, 1 spear, 1 settler. Lets hope Sala doesnt upgrade.

IT
We now hold a million souls. How nice, we rank 7 in pop. Imhotep is born

turn 7
Sala has added an archer to Najran, no longbowmen yet. Hope he cant autoupgrade when I declare.
Call up Sala, take open border from the table and tell his head would look nice on the end of a stick.

Upgrade axes vs archers attack, we lose, 1.7 left (boo, 70% win chance)
Upgrade axes vs archers attack, we win, 4.1 left
Upgrade axes vs archers attack, we lose, 0.4 left (boo again)
Upgrade axes vs archers attack, we win, 3.3 left
Upgrade axes vs archers attack, we win, 5.0 left :)
Upgrade axes vs archers (1.7) attack, we win, 3.3 left
send in heavily promotes axes with shock against spear. we win 4.3 left
Upgrade axes vs archers (0.4) attack, we win, 4.3 left

We own Najran! Sala has left 102 gold in his coffers.

Have to go now and visit some friends will finish later today and upload with pics.

Kemal
19-08-2006, 14:12
Excellent job PP, good to see we're making solid progress military wise... Any news on the techfront (construction)?

ProPain
19-08-2006, 17:29
Just ran back in.

Well, construction in 9 or so. But with 102 extra gold we can up the pace a bit. Techwise we're doing quite sadly. Both Sala and Cathy lead us by 5techs or something (doing this by heart).

I was thinking to get construction by ourselves and after that maybe see what we can extort from Sala for peace. Don't have a clue however if this will be as easy as in Civ3. At least our new territories should provide more gold coins for us to be converted into science and less for Sala so we should at least be able to catch up with him and after that get rid of him entirely. That's all presuming we can't finish him now.

Also I dont know how long peace has to last before we redeclare in order to prevent a rep hit (the 20 turns from civ3) That might be a huge factor in deciding in many stages we want to take care of Saladin. At 20 turns of peace I'm leaning towards a two stage war but only if tech extortion is a viable option. Otherwise we're better off killing him asap. Also if possible only 102 gold from one city seems like quite a lot to me (at least by civ3 standards) so he might have enough archer-longbowmen upgrade cash which would be bad news.

Will play the last few turns in half an hour after I've had my tea.

Shabbaman
19-08-2006, 17:45
Rep hit... well, we don't need the reputation for Catharine, and Saladin doesn't know anyone else (right?). So there's no problem with getting a rep hit.

Kemal
19-08-2006, 17:57
Civ4 differs from civ3 in this aspect for quite a bit, for example, if you sign peace you are *forced* to maintain the peace for at least 10 turns. You (nor the other party) simply cannot break the treaty during the first 10 turns. After that, no extra rep hit exists for declaring war again, but you do get a standard -3 penalty for a declaration of war in any case.

Also, the gold one plunders from towns isn't related to the treasury of the civ you take it from, but rather each city builds up a treasury of its own with regard to how much plunder you take from it. The length of the city having been under control of a civ and the size are factors in this I think, so grabbing old large size cities from their original owner yields a lot of gold, but recapturing your own large cities yields next to nothing.

Finally, in my experience, tech extortion is *very* difficult, we might be able to extort some lower tier techs like meditation, but anything worth a couple of hundred beakers requires a massive slaughter of the AI, if it is willing to give up these techs at all. So I'd say let's try to grab as many cities we can with out initial offensive, then if need be sign peace and use the 10 turns mandatory peace to rebuild, and perhaps also get some cats in. Getting the Holy Judaism city would obviously help out a lot in the long run for our economy, but I don't think we should sacrifice all to grab it asap. Any city will do as long as we have a decent change to get it.

As shabba said, the rep hit on Cathy (if they are on speaking terms, -1) is of no concern, the pros of expanding our empire and crushing Saladin outweighs this little con by a large margin, imho.

Shabbaman
19-08-2006, 18:15
Could you upload the save PP?

ProPain
19-08-2006, 18:22
I was referring to a rep hit for not sitting out the required x-turns of peace but in this case that's no option as we cant get rid of that peace anyway :)

Ok, playing the last 2.5 turns now. Next stop: Baghdad.

Furiey
19-08-2006, 18:25
I will have to ask for a skip for my next turns, my PC is rebelling against Civ 4 and I've only just got it to boot up again since the beginning of the week, work unfortunately stopping me from spending much time earlier. It still won't run Civ 4 though so I've got some more messing about to do with it until I can play.

ProPain
19-08-2006, 19:34
turn 7 continued
set troops to move to Baghdad

IT
nothing

turn 8
Sala has turned one archer into Longbow in Baghdad. No other changes visible. MOve troops.
Set science slider one notch higher: construction in 3 instead of 4 now

it
nothing

turn 9
move troops into attack position next to Baghdad. Sala has upgraded another archer and sent in a spear. Now defended by 2 longbows and 1 spear, we move in 10 axes and an archer.
Sword and axes show up next to Najra

Sent in melee upgraded axes and against axes (70% win chance) we lose, 0.8 left
axes against sword: we crush sword
chariot vs weakened axes: we crush them as well.

IT
more troops show up on our border, nothing to worry about.

turn 10
We have construct. I set tech to feuda but we can change that. Just need to get the attack on B done and save.

Attack B: We lose 7 axes, but we own it now. 122 in compensation.

Save will be uploaded soon, need to transfer comp for that.

BCLG100
19-08-2006, 20:59
Woop

Ive found that if you go on an intense pillaging of the AI lands they are more willing to give you techs as you are still damaging them but not leaving them in a crippled position so have some way of getting back.- if that makes at all sense.

ProPain
20-08-2006, 01:26
Download Attachment: /forum/icon_paperclip.gif tha save! (http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/ProPain/CDZSG680AD.zip)

grs
20-08-2006, 12:48
Regarding tech extortion I too can say that it is between difficult and impossible in civ 4. Regarding research: we should always do 100% or 0, because we lose points from fractions rounded down.

Shabbaman
20-08-2006, 13:42
If we take a chartiot, we could raze that bronze SE of Baghdad. My guess (fwiw) is that that's his only bronze.

BCLG100
20-08-2006, 14:25
im glad im not the only one that still regularly refers to it as bronze :D

ProPain
20-08-2006, 17:36
Looked at the save again, seems in my hurry to take Baghdad I forgot some things:

1) NE of Najran lies one more city. Before we press enter and end turn we should take a chariot from Najran and sent it in to investigate. If it's defenses are weak we can use the troops in Najran to take that as well
2) Tlatelolco needs culture Damascus is creeping up. I started the library but it maybe be better to rush it. Further study of Tlat shows we can rearrange workers to get +2 food and grow again.
3) SE of Damascus is another city. Teotihuacan has a chariot in it we can use to see what kind of city that is and how it's defenses are.

Other observations: green territory suggest Sala has 4 cities left
1) Damascus
2) Mystery city NE of Najran/Badgdad: we can investigate with chariot
3) Mystery city SE of Damascus: we can investigate with chariot
4) Mystery city NE of Damascus: too far away to safely & quickly check out

Should we able to take 2 and/or 3, we'll be 8/9 cities and sala left with 3/4. Should be easy to outproduce him quickly and relieve him from his misery. Cathy has 7 cities. With 8/9 we're at least up to par and not so easy a target. If we can take her down in a few wars we're we chip away at her cities we should be able to rule at least our continent.

ProPain
21-08-2006, 10:28
bump: who's up????

Furiey
21-08-2006, 20:02
Kemal
BCLG100
Grahamiam
grs
ProPain------>just played
Furiey------->skipped as can't get Civ 4 to run at the moment
Beam-------->up
Shabbaman-->on deck

Beam
21-08-2006, 20:17
k, will play coming 24h

Kemal
24-08-2006, 23:55
[bump]

Can you still play Beam, or should someone pick this one up in the meantime?

Beam
25-08-2006, 00:47
Shit, some RL stuff made me forget to play. Will do tomorrow.

ProPain
28-08-2006, 22:38
BUMP

Please let us know if you can play, if not then we can pass it on.

Shabbaman
29-08-2006, 09:01
I can't play after Beam, just skip me for the coming days.

ProPain
31-08-2006, 21:52
Well, Kemal, with Beam and Shabba not being able to play I guess you're up!

Kemal
03-09-2006, 01:45
Sorry guys, due to other commitments I can only play this one monday, since these turns will take quite some investment.

It's a shame to see the game (almost) grinding down to a halt again though, it's a very interesting situation we're in, imho. Anyone able to play/wanting to play should not hesitate to get some turns in (or at least that's fine with me). :)

BCLG100
03-09-2006, 02:49
ill try and play it tomorrow if not kemal your welcome to play

Kemal
05-09-2006, 00:39
Played only 2 turns so far, will continue tomorrow... progress is slow as the situation is really complex as we're in a very deep hole.

We're doing fairly well against the Arabs military wise, they aren't putting up much of a counterattack yet, and our highly promoted axes could have a decent shot at getting the northern mystery city even without cats.
Cat production has started in almost all cities now as conquest is impossible without them. With 4 or 5, we might try Damascus since we have so many axes and chariots... problem though is that we are already heavily choking economy-wise due to war weariness. Even with most chariots pulled back doing MP duties, our best cities are now at +3 and +2 unhappiness, with 4 defenders or more garrisoned. We're facing starvation or a production-cut meaning slower progress due to lack of cats.

We'll have to settle for peace before we can annihilate the Arabs, question is when will be the best time...?

ProPain
05-09-2006, 00:44
Have you scouted the Arab cities in the fog with the chariots?

BCLG100
05-09-2006, 00:59
why dont we just go for a cease fire? 10 turns of peace and no rep hit when we redeclare.

ProPain
08-09-2006, 01:00
BUMP

Kemal
09-09-2006, 01:10
Turns played, major decision-making time has arrived!!

First a recap of the turns, and an apology as I was so busy actually playing these turns and trying to figure out what to do, that I didn't take any pictures at all, though I guess they wouldn't have helped much with regard to understanding what has happened, except maybe for a pic on the final turn. Hopefuly the next player will be able to post a pic of the empire as it stands, else I will try and put one up tomorrow.

So what happened:

We're crushing the Arabs. We've captured the mysterycity in the north (ex barb city it turned out to be, Chinook or something) with a loss of only 2 axemen as Saladin decided to move out a bunch of armys with his galleys, only to drop them in front of our axes again.

We've been building mainly MP to keep our cities afloat, and cats to help in the war against the arabs, and leeching on stolen money from our raids to help fund our support cost. This approach culminated in the sack of Damascus, which again saw us lose just 1 axe and 1 cat, as Saladin wasted most of his armies on walled Tlatelolco and some jungle-hop axemen of ours. That is where we stand now at the moment.



Question now is: Continue the war or not?


I think we should go for peace now, even though the Arabs are ready to be crushed now. This mainly because of the following:

- We're heavily overexpanded already. At one point, we were losing 6gpt at 0% science. The vaults of Damascus has given us some breathing space, but we need to build up domestically asap.
Our very succesful war hasn;t helped either, ironicaly, since we face extreme upkeep costs. Ending the war could see us disband the majority of our armies (up to 75% I'd say, keeping only very experienced units and those necessary to keep the people happy), since they are obsolete versus Russia anyway, and Arabs are no longer a threat.

- While the Arabs are wasted, they have 2 major cities left which undoubtedly will be heavily guarded. Since most of our armies are wounded and/or need relocation, gearing up for another assault would delay building up by at least 10 turns. Also leaving Saladin standing might net us a cheap (tech)trade later on thanks to a major religious diplomodifier.

- Salading offers both his arms and legs for peace, and this is imho the major reason we should seek peace now. There is very little extra gain in continuing the war except obtaining the holy shrine, but we will take that later anyway once our economic and domestic problems have been sorted out.
Atm, Salading gives 70 gold and, iirc, 6 techs for peace, including (a partly researched) metal casting and literature, plus some badly needed tier 2 techs like sailing and monotheism.

My view:

Based on this, I think we should sign peace now and go for domestic builds nationwide asap, disbanding most of our army and getting those cottages worked around the country. We also need currency badly, for extra trade routes and markets, but civil service and especially Optics (for contacting other civs) should be a long term goal. If we get monotheism, we should strongly consider switching to org. religion and get mono spread in major cities if they haven't been influenced already, to get the 25% extra hammers.

Priority one is getting out of the economy trap, everything should be geared at the prosperity of our empire in the coming turns.

Save is coming up once uploaded, that should help others form an opinion on what is going on. Again, sorry for the lack of pics. :)

Beam
09-09-2006, 01:46
quote:Priority one is getting out of the economy trap

Based on your solid report I roger that. Please skip me from the roster, have to resolve desktop issues first.

BCLG100
09-09-2006, 05:03
peace seems the best option especially if hes gonna give us 6 techs for it.

Kemal
10-09-2006, 01:00
I sent the save to PP for upload purposes, but I think it might be best to send it to the next player as well... as far as I'm concerned, anyone can take it as our roster already looks like swiss cheese anyway, but according to the tracker that would be BCLG, so save is on the way there. :)

BCLG100
10-09-2006, 18:34
ok i'll try to play within about 48 hours, update on the last few turns? or did you just stop where you were before?

ProPain
10-09-2006, 20:38
and here's the save. renamed to .zip as usual

Download Attachment: /forum/icon_paperclip.gif /ProPain/CDZSG880AD.zip (http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/ProPain/CDZSG880AD.zip)

BCLG100
13-09-2006, 03:20
probs need an extra 24ish hours, things are getting hectic with uni quickly approaching.

digger760
19-09-2006, 16:24
[bump]

BCLG100
19-09-2006, 19:55
Sorry first week at uni, you know how it is, i'll try and play asap but if someone else wants to play by all means go ahead.

BCLG100
20-09-2006, 21:03
ok played the save, full 10 turns, ill post everything later.

quick summary we have peace but are ready for war again as ive found the jewish holy city and its right next to our borders and with a shrine in will be wonders for our economy.

Sally has logbows now is the only real drawback.

BCLG100
21-09-2006, 15:08
Allrighty here we go then.

PFC-We have tenoch building an aquaduct, admitedly its at its health limit but its also at its happiness limit so i set to spear for a bit of MP duty.

Make peace with Saladin for- Meditation, Mono, Lit, Sailing, Metal Casting and 70 gold.

I go for code of laws as our research now as with all the cities we have we could do with some courthouses really.

Move a lot of units towards Damascuss ready for the next shot at saly-to try and grab that holy city.

IBT-Sally's sword buggers off from the border and a worker appears near damscuss.

900AD-worker actions

IBT-Sally offers OB, i accept as we can just cancel when we want to go to war and in the interim will give us time to scout out his territory, he founds Kufah north of damascus.

920AD-send a chariot into sally land and find Medina-the jewish holy city complete with shrine-already nice and big with 13 pop points.
SS completes library-set for lighthouse (needs some health)

IBT-gems for suger with sally

940AD-find mecca.
Tenoch-Spear continuing with aquaduct.

IBT-nothing

960AD Tenoch- Aquaduct to forge.

IBT-nothing

980AD-worker actions

IBT-islam founded elsewhere

1000AD-SS lighthouse to aquaduct.

IBT-nothing

1010AD-worker in Narjan-Granary

IBT-nada

1020AD- we discover CoL go compass as im noy sure what everyones thoughts were
Teot-Aquaduct-forge
Damascus-rax

IBT-nothing

1030AD-Science set to 0% to build up a bit of gold.

Closing thoughts- We may as well go for another war with sally asap, trying to capture that Jewish holy city, we can always sue for peace following the capture of that-knock out kufah as well perhaps. Sue for peace and we can perhaps pick up the remainding techs were missing. Cathy seems to have a bit of a lead on us so we should try and do something with sally so we can clip her wings.

BCLG100
21-09-2006, 15:11
Allrighty here we go then.

PFC-We have tenoch building an aquaduct, admitedly its at its health limit but its also at its happiness limit so i set to spear for a bit of MP duty.

Make peace with Saladin for- Meditation, Mono, Lit, Sailing, Metal Casting and 70 gold.

I go for code of laws as our research now as with all the cities we have we could do with some courthouses really.

Move a lot of units towards Damascuss ready for the next shot at saly-to try and grab that holy city.

IBT-Sally's sword buggers off from the border and a worker appears near damscuss.

900AD-worker actions

IBT-Sally offers OB, i accept as we can just cancel when we want to go to war and in the interim will give us time to scout out his territory, he founds Kufah north of damascus.

920AD-send a chariot into sally land and find Medina-the jewish holy city complete with shrine-already nice and big with 13 pop points.
SS completes library-set for lighthouse (needs some health)

IBT-gems for suger with sally

940AD-find mecca.
Tenoch-Spear continuing with aquaduct.

IBT-nothing

960AD Tenoch- Aquaduct to forge.

IBT-nothing

980AD-worker actions

IBT-islam founded elsewhere

1000AD-SS lighthouse to aquaduct.

IBT-nothing

1010AD-worker in Narjan-Granary

IBT-nada

1020AD- we discover CoL go compass as im noy sure what everyones thoughts were
Teot-Aquaduct-forge
Damascus-rax

IBT-nothing

1030AD-Science set to 0% to build up a bit of gold.

Closing thoughts- We may as well go for another war with sally asap, trying to capture that Jewish holy city, we can always sue for peace following the capture of that-knock out kufah as well perhaps. Sue for peace and we can perhaps pick up the remainding techs were missing. Cathy seems to have a bit of a lead on us so we should try and do something with sally so we can clip her wings.

http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/15436/CDZ_AD-1030.Civ4SavedGame

grahamiam
21-09-2006, 15:58
imho, compass -> optics is good as it'll allow us to meet others.

BCLG100
21-09-2006, 19:19
from memory though i think cathy already has it, not sure.

BCLG100
12-10-2006, 19:58
anyone gonna play a turnset?

Tubby Rower
12-10-2006, 20:47
maybe everyone has "learned" already and you are the only slow one left. [lol]

Shabbaman
12-10-2006, 22:03
I think I can play a set tomorrow afternoon.

socralynnek
12-10-2006, 23:05
hey BCLG, you complain about people not taking a turnset while it's your turn in the SGOTM...
or does the: " I don't play while I'm drunk"-rule apply for today ? ;)

Shabbaman
12-10-2006, 23:32
[lol]

BCLG100
13-10-2006, 01:11
quote:Originally posted by socralynnek

hey BCLG, you complain about people not taking a turnset while it's your turn in the SGOTM...
or does the: " I don't play while I'm drunk"-rule apply for today ? ;)


seee erm my post in the SG thread?

and i wasnt complaining so much just wondering whether the game was dead

socralynnek
13-10-2006, 01:31
It worked, I wanted you to play in he SGOTM...

But you are right... your teammates here probably have forgotten about the game (three weeks is very long...)

BCLG100
13-10-2006, 01:43
:lol: no worries, i should have put smilies in to let you know i was joking but as i cant be arsed to learn cdz's smilies i didnt bother :D

Tubby Rower
13-10-2006, 13:43
cdz smilies are almost the same as cfc smilies except most are encapsulated by []

BCLG100
13-10-2006, 16:21
yup and you think im gonna remember them? :p

Furiey
13-10-2006, 22:20
I'm still watching the game, but my PC is refusing to run Civ 4 at all now, after my problems getting the SGOTM to load. It is intermittent though and will occaisionally run, I can just never predict when. I'm getting pretty pissed off about it, but just don't have time at the moment for a complete reinstall which it probably needs.

Shabbaman
14-10-2006, 18:22
Reinstall windows or civ4? Mods can do strange things to your program. But a civ4 reinstall shouldn't be really exhausting. Anyway, the weekend is a little bit busier than expected. Perhaps tomorrow...

Shabbaman
21-10-2006, 12:07
It's not really working out for me right now... but I'm fairly sure I can play tomorrow.

Shabbaman
23-10-2006, 15:34
Woohoo, triple post! Anyway, with CDZ downtime I couldn't get the save. I can't play this week until the weekend.