***IglooDude's CIVivor spoiler***

[IglooDude]

First off, if you're reading this thread and playing against me, [finger]

Okay, CIVivor has started. I've logged in, but not actually played the first turn, but here's my overall thoughts:

I'm going to go through the CFC posts and see if I can figure out who the multiplayer veterans are, I think they're by far going to be the most dangerous opponents, and if I was to predict a winner right now it'd be one of them. Having only played EdTheGreat before (and vice versa for him), and both of those games were cooperative rather than competitive, I'm going to pick another MP-newbie for my first war opponent if possible.

Not sure about how the Libertarian Army of Doom will play out - if we have shared borders, particularly more than two of us, I can see it helping out a lot.

[Rik Meleet]

Good luck

[Whomp]

Cheers Igloo Dude! [guiness] and a small piece of [spam3] for you...just because.

It will be interesting to see how things develop. As far as the veterans go do you have an strategies on how to contend with them and how will the alliances work? For instance, can you go after another libetarian?
Please include some pictures Lurkers love pictures.

[IglooDude]

As requested: my 4000BC start:

http://img166.imageshack.us/img166/1566/4000bc5no.jpg

I can't believe how many flood plains I'm in, the corn almost adds insult to injury. My capital is a settler/worker factory. I was thinking about moving over to the bottom left square (forested hill) - looking at it now I definitely should have. [blush2]

[IglooDude]

quote:Originally posted by Whomp

Cheers Igloo Dude! [guiness] and a small piece of [spam3] for you...just because.

It will be interesting to see how things develop. As far as the veterans go do you have an strategies on how to contend with them and how will the alliances work? For instance, can you go after another libetarian?
Please include some pictures Lurkers love pictures.

How to contend with veterans? Hmmm... with any luck, fight them with other veterans on my side. [beer1] I'm vague on the alliances right now, but I think "libertarians don't fight other libertarians" might be the battle cry, though I'm skeptical that ideology will win out if someone's backside is seriously exposed. Ronald Reagan said "trust but verify" and personally I'm going to give the wars my all, but keep enough back to discourage others from thinking I'm an easy target. "Peace through strength" is another good saying. ;)

[Whomp]

Wow that looks like cottage galore around the captial. It may not be too bad with some mined hills and cottages on the FP's. Could make for some decent production and lots of commerce. Personally, I think commerce in cIV is what growth was to civ3.

As far as alliances go...I'm Italian and my peeps say "keep your enemies close and your friends closer". ;)

[IglooDude]

Yep, although those desert squares just beyond are annoying - hopefully they'll turn out to be oil-rich.

And horses don't show up on flood plains, I think - and as I'm beelining to Immortals (Animal husbandry and Wheel), presumably I'll need a second city just to connect to horses, if they're nearby at all.

On a positive note, that's coastline just in the fog to the north, so that's at least one side defended for the moment. :)

[IglooDude]

Ugh. The "coastline" to the north is just a six-square lake, my first cultural border expansion reveals. Still haven't made contact with anyone else, which implies that I've got some room for city expansion. I've got corn and pig either within my border already or will soon, and cow and rice within sight, so add that to the expansive health trait and the unhealthiness of flood plains won't matter at all to Igloopolis. Two turns till I finish a warrior. After that I could play conservative, build barracks until I get to size 2 (or even 3), then worker, warrior, settler, or I could build a second warrior, get to size 2, then a settler immediately. Depends on whether I see horses or not, which I'll be able to see in I think five turns.

[Pastorius]

And you d think that someone with your name would get a cold thundra start.

Good luck, and welcome to CDZ. We dont need spam for our cans or cans for our spam.

Feel free to stick around for a bit and <s>nag</s> ask an administrator (Melifluous, Shabba or ProPain) if you re in dire need of yer very own forum for your writeups (you ll be hooked on creating spoilers and ranting about this and that after a while...)

[IglooDude]

Thanks Paal. Yeah, I was expecting a tundra start too, but ah well.

I suspect Whomp has stopped reading this since he's gotten semi-involved with the game on Jericho's behalf.

Anyway, it is a few turns later now, and I'll get another picture up soon. I'm actually a little reluctant to reveal all in this thread - any other players (particularly non-LAoD types) reading this will be able to stick a knife in me pretty good... :-(

[IglooDude]

Hmmm... I really ought to update this, shouldn't I?

[romeothemonk]

Updates are good. We like updates.

[IglooDude]

Okay, well then... Pic to follow several hours from now, but here's the status:

I've met about 2/3 of the civs, and see borders for VRWC (1:30), DrYoshi (4 o'clock), DeLorimier (5 o'clock), Ybbor (7), Sparta (8:30), Truronian (9:30), and Caesar (11). Caesar/VRCW appear to be on the north coast and Ybbor/DeLor are on the south coast. Truronian and I are at war with Caesar, who #1 appears to have a copper/iron-less capital and #2 has more beaver and crabs than I can shake a stick at. And speaking of shaking sticks, Truronian and I have each lost a warrior to him already. Ybbor is sending a quecha up to whack Caesar's archer and Tru and I are each sending more warriors.

The LAoD is shaping up nicely; me, Truronian, Sparta, Ybbor, and (secretly) Davo are signed up and contiguous on one side of the pancake. Jeriwhomp (JerichoHill and Whomp sharing the burden) and Tycoon101 none of us have met yet but expect to have an alliance when we do. I'm beelining for alphabet and will have it in ~15 turns. I'm hoping one of the others has been going down the BW/IW path, but if not my capital should develop into a research heavyweight with all the floodplains. VRWC has dropped his second city touching my borders to the northeast, and I'm hoping that (with an intent to have a research-heavy capital anyway) I'll flip it sooner rather than later. He's probably going to be my target after Caesar is finally put down, or he'll see the writing on the wall and ask to join the LAoD - not that that will save his second city.

[IglooDude]

Well frick, I'll have to get the pics tonight or tomorrow I guess.

And I do have a barracks built and a citydefense1-promoted archer defending Igloopolis with a second one in progress. I can run at six hammers/turn and 12 beakers/turn right now... [music]

[IglooDude]

Well, here's the latest pics, in two turns I'm going to be a much happier camper - alphabet researched, a second citydefenseI archer built, and the corn farm finished:



http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/igloodude/2006614234311_civivor2160BCN.JPG
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http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/igloodude/2006614234333_civivor2160BCS.JPG
161.6KB

[IglooDude]

Latest update:

Alphabet done, and the entire LAoD now is up to tech parity, with all 1st tier, all 2nd tier, and a few 3rd tier techs shared all-round.

Unfortunately our scores have dramatically risen (we're mostly the top scores on the list now) and may affect everyone else negatively.

I don't have copper, but someone else LAoD (I forget who) will soon have spare, so I'm roading over to the nearest alliance member; everyone else is already connected via river, coast, or road trade-route.

I've just switched to slavery, and have a capital peculiarly well suited to whipping, so that'll be nice. I've never used whipping before (in Civ, anyway).[whipped][whipped][whipped]

Not sure if VRWC to my immediate northeast has copper. He does have the prerequisites for alphabet, so he might be getting that soon, at which point an attack on him will probably force him to bribe the QC with alphabet to attack the LAoD.

Meanwhile, we're coordinating our research now, ironworking and construction being two critical ones.

[IglooDude]

This just in - I've completed a road to Truronian's city, so I'm in the LAoD resource-trading network now. Sparta just completed ironworking, so hopefully this turn I'll be able to see iron. Another worker will be done in 5 turns, mathematics done in 7 or so.

Current debate is how to publicly bring in Davo, and how to safely (i.e. minimizing the damage if he is planning to renege) bring in JerichoWhomp.

And how soon we can take Rome, of course. [tank]

[IglooDude]

Davo has come out of the non-LAoD closet. Meanwhile Whomp has knocked out Tycoon (not a difficult feat, and certainly one welcomed by all players given Tycoon's tendency to miss turns). And Azzaman has taken one of EdTheGreat's two cities, probably going to turn into Ed's vassalage.

RaisinBran and DrYoshi attacked Monty (AI)'s capital with seven warriors, and were soundly defeated. Shane took Monty's second city while they were busy bleeding out, though.

I have mathematics in two, five or six forest tiles, ironworking, iron gifted from Ybbor for the moment, and crosshairs set on VRWC. I should be able to crank out three axe/sword types in six or seven turns with my half-built archer shortly after that, ensuring New Raisinville (with its iron square) falls to me. After that and waiting for a counterattack in response I'll do reconnaissance in force into VRWC's capital area (no LAoD intel on that chunk of real estate is available) and see whether he's been dorking off for the past 50 turns or whether a real army is going to descend on me.

The next dozen turns are going to be quite the exciting ones. [estwing] And bout damned time I got a second city, much better taking one than making one.

[IglooDude]

And now we see that pretty much everyone non-LAoD has shared techs with each other, the result of which is that everyone is at an even level except nobody besides the LAoD has polytheism or anything requiring it.

Still keeping fingers crossed that I can take down VRWC before he can exploit his sudden tech parity...

[IglooDude]

And now, VRWC's worker starts on a road and presumably a mine on the iron next to NewRaisinville, and joy of joys a settler appears on that square as well. I've just produced an axe and am two turns from a sword, and two turns till my worker finishes the road to that iron square as well. So the big question is, can the archer that I was using to trail Raisin's scout (which has gone up to just SE of NewRaisinville, I'm assuming doing antibarb recon for the settler) intercept the settler? And will the worker be roading to the new city, or will it stay put and mine the iron - if it does not do the mine, I know VRWC has metal near his capital.

On the flip side, a bit of relief - if he's been generating two settlers from his capital, maybe he won't have had a chance to mass archers or build a barracks, and maybe he'll have chopped so much that he has none left to rush defenders with.

[Robboo]

Does he have iron workign..he may not know its there.

Also of he is building alot of settlers he may not have a hammer friendly capitol. He may be trying to grab a production city. Check his crop yeild and manufacturing on the graph and see if you can teae anything from it.

[IglooDude]

He got traded ironworking a couple turns ago, sadly, I think part of a big tech-exchange once a non-LAoDer came up with alphabet.

His capital is in the snow/tundra belt, so odds are that it isn't particularly production-heavy, and I'm betting he's been chopping like mad. Good idea about looking at the production graph, I'll check it out when I get to doing the next turn. :)

[IglooDude]

VRWC just had an axe pop up in the target city... [wallbash]

http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/igloodude/200671412354_VRWCattack.JPG
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[IglooDude]

Update.

With some substantial unit gifting from the rest of the LAoD, I've taken all three of VRWC's cities. Truronian has finished off the Rome AI. The LAoD is currently at peace, with a minor tech lead (feud, machinery, and I think civil service) and building up forces.

Whompico (who has joined the LAoD) is talking about getting Shane and Raisin in on an attack on Azza. BCLG has contacted me (distinct from the LAoD, given possible leaks there) about assisting him with DeLorimier. Given DeLo's current semi-smug attitude, Whomp's unauthorized (forgetful or cementing secret alliances?) tech-trading, and current peace on the eastern half of the pancake, I am wondering whether there's a backstab imminent, but will prep against either DeLo or HitAnyKey anyway.

Igloopolis: finish spear and send to Nome, then finish longbow and send that to Nome too. Workers finish second incense then mine the hill next to city.

Tafkal: worker finish silk and then mine a hill away from the border. Upgrade the axe to mace and sit him in the city.

Nome: worker chopfinish the library, then camp the beaver, then plantation the silk. Other worker already getting the sheep, then help the first worker. Send city garrison south when replaced by defensive units.

Blizzard: workers chop out longbows then more longbows.

I'll put up a screenshot soon.

[IglooDude]

Okay, time for the too-long-delayed update. With VRWC out, the next logical target is DeLorimier, being on the eastern borders of Ybbor and me. BCLG offered an alliance against him anyway, but just as I'm moving into position (and BCLG already declared against him), I see a big BCLG stack show up on my side of Beaumont, and BCLG horses that are next to DeLo spears and still alive. Suspecting a trap, I pull back, and BCLG gets peace and apparently leaves.

Then the LAoD declares on DeLo anyway, Ybbor and I focusing on 3Rivers, and with the following current result (Ybbor and DeLo both having not moved yet this turn):
http://imageigloo.com/images/7295rivers3_2.JPG

It looks like we might still take 3Rivers, but it is going to be close and if DeLo has anything in reserve, we're toast.

While we were attacking DeLo, I saw via caravel that HitAnyKey's capital was defended by a single warrior. I put a crossbow and a mace (gifted by Truro) in a galley and in a shameless (but legal) doublemove, took and razed his capital just as he logged in. He promptly sent a stack northwest to punish me and presumably take Nome, but I had anticipated it and held a force back from 3Rivers just in case, and attacked HAK's stack with it (and the survivors of the capital hit) this turn. The following is the current status, and I should be able to finish his stack off next turn.

http://imageigloo.com/images/9416NomevsHAK.JPG

Once his stack is dead, I'm going to heal up my survivors and figure out whether I can take his new capital. Relegating him to OCC (as RaisinBran now is) would be nice, leaving the LAoD roughly equal in power to Azza, BCLG, DeLo, and Shane (Shane being allied with us at the moment anyway).

[IglooDude]

The latest report:

The LAoD is still myself, Sparta, Davo, and Ybbor - VRWC (taking over for Truronian a month or so ago) having apparently gifted BCLG some techs a half-dozen turns ago, and signed a defense pact with him (he's been incommunicado to the LAoD as well).

Schizo (Whomp/JerichoHill) is a part of the LAoD as far as I'm concerned, but most others don't trust him after Jericho traded techs for Perth while the two of them and Shane were eliminating Azzaman. And in case it isn't in the above updates, Azza focused on defending to his south (vs Whomp and Shane) while BCLG blitzed across his north, thus BCLG is easily the top dog in the game right now with something like a dozen cities. Oh, and Mauer has taken over for Shane, RaisinBran is still a two-city hanger-on, and HitAnyKey (formerly Rhymes months ago) is apparently still BCLG's ally/vassal.

It seems that everyone is clear that either we take BCLG down collectively, or he beats each of us individually and wins the ballgame. However, VRWC and HitAnyKey may both feel vengeful enough toward the LAoD (and me in particular) that they're willing to let/help that happen.

(Did I note above where I used a caravel to figure out that HAK's capital had a single warrior for defense, so I double-moved in with a galley and razed it with a crossbow/mace amphibious attack? Understandable that HAK is willing to lose to get revenge for that.)

Anyway, I'm getting ready to punish VRWC with my 2-move units (some of which he'd previously gifted me, but that was when he was apparently a part of the LAoD) and Sparta/Davo will help, while still keeping a solid stack out-of-sight of both BCLG/HAK and VRWC's christian citizens in my capital and Tafkal as BCLG could well take the opportunity to attack.

Schizo and Mauer are probably going to be up for the Big War very soon, too, then we'll see which way things go. I personally think BCLG will probably focus on Whomp/Mauer while fighting rearguard on the LAoD (so that ultimately he can focus on one front). I'm of the opinion that we might as well trust Whomp/Mauer to fight him, because if they're on his side, we're screwed anyway.

[IglooDude]

Reading over my last update, it appears I'm a pretty smart guy. :D

VRWC is out (again), I having run through his continental lands with cav, and Sparta finished him off taking his island fortress.

HitAnyKey is out, I having taken Insanity, then BCLG oddly (with HAK's apparently collusion) having taken HAK's two remaining cities, Weirdo and Freak. I took and razed Freak just after BCLG took it. Now for Weirdo: the stack north of the city has a half dozen cannon and a few city raider grens. It doesn't look like BCLG has anything close enough to prevent me from taking Weirdo, the question is will I relieve the pressure on Whomp and Mauer enough to let them go on the offensive too?

http://img171.imageshack.us/img171/162/weirdoattackor2.jpg

[IglooDude]

Is it better to have an opportunity and watch it slip past, or not have the opportunity in the first place? BCLG has apparently taken everything but the cannon out of Dangerville, exposing it to a cav DM attack. Ybbor has a half-dozen cav that could participate - can't take the city, but can beat the hell out of the defenses and open it up to a regular attack. I've PMed him to let him know, but he may not check in the next six hours, and even if he does, may not be around at the end of turn... [aargh][aargh][aargh]

http://img92.imageshack.us/img92/6113/dangervillecannoncb4.jpg

[IglooDude]

Wow, it's been a while.

HitAnyKey is dead. BCLG apparently did an assisted suicide, not sure what is up with that.

BCLG is dead - Mauer and Whomp kept after Perth, Sparta and JH went after his southern cities Funzone and SimonSpot, and I went wild in the north, taking two of his cities from the sea, hammering the wounded in Perth, managing to get his capital via amphib and land pincer, and finally ending it with a classic stack attack on his remaining city (losing a few gren and cannon to his three garrison-2 grens there though) while pillaging a whole bunch of cottages there. I gifted Perth (now IslamaWhomp) to Whomp, gifted RIP.MIA to Davo (who has moved his gren stack there), kept BCjing for myself, and razed everything else.

Now a 5-turn post-BCLG peace has ended, my comrades in the LAoD have rejected JH's request to be made/confirmed/whatever as a full LAoD member (personally I think it was a bad call and rather poorly handled anyway, but I'm outvoted and outgunned), and Sparta and JH are staring at each others' stacks down south while I prep for more IglooDudeian flanking attacks.

Oh, and the LAoD has infantry (and my pillaging has enabled me to upgrade nearly everything), and the Tri (Whomp, Mauer/Robi, and JH) do not. [evil] Yet, anyway. And we all signed a no-DM, so there's going to be a lot more sledgehammering than daggering now.

[IglooDude]

I've asked Davo a few turns ago to send some help (a few infantry and his two cannons) from RIP.MIA to help me take or defend IslamaWhomp. They still haven't shown up (and IslamaWhomp is secure). I'm starting to think his promise to send help has fallen into the same hole his announced amphibious force going to BCLG's east coast did - I took two BCLG cities with a single frigate and loaded galleon, AFAIK he never even attempted a landing. He also has said he's going to take Mauer's island cities. Soon, one hopes.

[BCLG100]

id keep davo onside, your going to need what little help he has to offer when your taking out sparta.

[IglooDude]

quote:Originally posted by BCLG100

id keep davo onside, your going to need what little help he has to offer when your taking out sparta.


I suspect that Sparta and Ybbor are as annoyed at Davo as I am, though. I may be able to convince them to 3vs1 Davo (on the thinking that 'he has had a free ride all along, it'd suck if he won') before we go for the final throw-down, assuming we don't agree to anything prior that precludes that.

[BCLG100]

Yeah you might be annoyed but sparta is a very good player so your going to need all the help you can get to finish him off.

[IglooDude]

quote:Originally posted by BCLG100

Yeah you might be annoyed but sparta is a very good player so your going to need all the help you can get to finish him off.


Sparta and I are not going to militarily bleed each other into the ground while Ybbor fails (understandably) to prevent Davo from getting a cultural victory.

Davo is already building his defenses (at least one of his core cities has five garrison-1 infantry in it) while the rest of us hammer at the Tri.

Anyway, I have two aces in the hole - one, I'm researching artillery slowly, it'll show up after the Tri is dead and any post-Tri mandatory sharing agreements have expired. Two, with the conquests Sparta and I are making, we'll be able to give one or the other of us a domination victory instantly (if Davo's cultural victory is imminent) by gifting all of our cities sans our capital to the other one. The latter may not be in the spirit (or for that matter, letter) of alliance diplo agreements, but then again neither is kicking back and building wonders and defenses for the entire game while your allies do all the fighting. I will willingly hand the victory to Sparta before I let Davo win, and frankly I figure Ybbor would agree to that as well.

[IglooDude]

This added so I have some reference when I'm not logged in:

http://img408.imageshack.us/img408/5163/vstriek0.jpg

[IglooDude]

Robi/Mauer is eliminated.

So now, it's down to four LAoD - and we STILL haven't decided how the endgame is going to be decided. [aargh] At least one of us still wants to simply declare an LAoD victory and close the game out. As administrator I simply won't allow that, and I think I've made that adequately clear.

So, assuming nothing gets decided, we're just going to treat it from here on out as a second game, with 15 turns of agreed peace to start it off.

And I should have artillery in 13. :D

[Whomp]

Perfect timing. Will there be any alliances to destroy someone? What's the economic picture for everyone?

[mauer]

Good game ID, sorry I missed my own destruction though. Hope you keep this updated though, cause I'd like to see who the wiener is.

[IglooDude]

The endgame is still undetermined, and actually I'm concerned that Sparta has just gone offline (in real life) unexpectedly Wednesday night; he was going to PM me immediately after logging out of the game (since I can't chat in-game very well) and never did. [ponder]

The economic situation for me looks bleak. I'm at 10% tech rate, 0% culture, making 30gpt. Obviously I have waaaay too many cities. Anticipating Davo going for a culture victory, I figured I'd keep a domination victory in my own back pocket.

I've got Globe Theater 9 turns away in Blizzard, which has two fish and three crab resources in its fat square. I'm building a FP way to the east in one of the former HAK/BCLG cities, and a great engineer to speed it up (14 turns away normally). I'm building a few more courthouses, and I've been cranking out Christian missionaries and planting them in core Davo/Ybbor/Sparta cities (particularly ones where I don't already have line-of-sight) and a few in my culture-poor BCLG cities too. When I switch back to theocracy, I'm going to see most folks' cities, and I'm going to defend the Christian holy city (just north of Sparta's core) very hard indeed. Oh and I built the spy factory (forget what its called) in my capital and cranked out max # of spies, I now have spies watching each of their capitals.

My military is probably sliding to last place, but I'll wait until about five turns before the mandatory peace ends before I start cranking there, about the same time that I switch back to theocracy and slavery. I'm guessing that everyone has been building defensively so much that they'll not be ready to attack, and I seem to have enough of a reputation for military handling (thanks Whomp) that hopefully they'll be deterred from charging in immediately.

[Whomp]

That does not bode well for a space race. Is there any way to take out Davo or is there the potential the other two could gang up on you? It seems they have quite an advantage on the economic front because they were not nearly as active on the military side other than producing units.

[mauer]

Where's the barbarians to raze those pesky cities when you need one?