View Full Version : DDCP - Dutch Disappointed Civ4 Players PBEM
There it is, the newest edition of the already classic DDPP PBEM. Whether it is your video card failing, the experience of random system crashes, your system specs being good enough for beta but not for the full game, or because you think "aardewerk" isn't as good a translation for pottery as some think, this is the game you definitely should join!
Exact map specs still to be decided I suppose, but at least the thread is here first again. ;)
Anyone interested in playing again? I sure am. :)
For historical reasons, it would be nice to have the original cast/regular replacements in again for this one as well, but there probably will be room for more, especially if larger maps would support more players.
Of course I would like to join but I would like a duel-player membership. I am not sure I will be able to be there all the time due to RL stuff.
And I will have a decent starting location this time! ;)
Darkness
02-11-2005, 11:07
quote:Originally posted by Kemal
, but their probably will be room for more,
I'm interested in such a position... :)
I don't know what mind of pace we will want to put in this game, last time we took things easy to say the least, but I think all were pretty much okay with that. I would not mind a slower paced ddpp again this time either, so whether people can't play every day wouldn't matter much to me.
Because of that, I don't think dual-membership would be required (after all 16+ learns us that this isn't a guarantee for quick play either). There will naturally be other (multihuman) pbems starting which can offer faster play. That said, dual membership is fine too, after all we did that all the time in the original ddpp too, with the (semi)permanent replacements.
So while I think it should be preferred to have just a single head of state per nation, it would allow more members to join should interest be overwhelming. :)
I would join again. If you need I could take a full spot this time. Please note that, I am available only at the weekends till December. From the 2nd week of December I can play regularly again.
Ah, you beat me to it, Kemal! :D
The emperor of Straland is back. [king]
I'd really like to join, acted as a replacement for ERIKK in DDPP. :)
Are you gonna abandon all your cities and start all over in a different spot? [lol]
Seriously, why don't you play for yourself?
I'd join but I'm not Dutch [:P] DDPP was really great reading, I'll be watching this :D
classical_hero
02-11-2005, 16:48
quote:Originally posted by Ville
I'd join but I'm not Dutch [:P] DDPP was really great reading, I'll be watching this :D
A lurker signing, for the fact that he is Australian, not Dutch. [rant] [sulk]
quote:Originally posted by Matrix
Are you gonna abandon all your cities and start all over in a different spot? [lol]
Seriously, why don't you play for yourself?
[rotfl]
Good one Matrix! My replacement turns for erikk were not as spectacular as the ones by the now dead other replacement player.
Ville, Classical_Hero, I don't know what the maximum number of players is to keep it fun (I mean 18 players will take too long), but I think basically former DDPP players have priority, after that other Dutchmen, and after that the rest. It seems the first group won't be enough by far, and second doesn't get very enthusiastic either, so then you're probably in...
Ready to get trounced. Me lucky, the game functions on the laptop, I only have the random crashes.
This will be my only pbem at least untill 1/1/06 so I'm very excited about it!
quote:Originally posted by Matrix
Ville, Classical_Hero, I don't know what the maximum number of players is to keep it fun (I mean 18 players will take too long), but I think basically former DDPP players have priority, after that other Dutchmen, and after that the rest. It seems the first group won't be enough by far, and second doesn't get very enthusiastic either, so then you're probably in...
That's nice but I don't have Civ4 until maybe early December :(
One subject that merits some discussions is what we will do with the map, or more specifically, who will create the map.
I might be dropping a bomb here, but I would favour to let the game create the map itself, and not use a mapmaker for this one.
Not only does this fit the historical perspective of the game (the original was played on a full random map as well, after all), but I also feel that the Civ4 generator is much more capable of balancing starting locations. It actively compares each start and modifies it with regard to early available luxes and resources, meaning that a start such as Erik had in DDPP should be out of the question. This doesn't necessarily mean all will start even, but it is a risk I personally am willing to take.
Adding to that, I think that mapmakers will need to gain some experience too by playing the game for some time first, before succesfully being able to assess the ins and outs of a fairly balanced start (as well as figuring out the ins and outs of the editor itself). No need to put that burden on someone just yet, especially for a big multihuman game.
What do you guys think?
Btw, I do not have the full game yet either, but will probably be able to play turns in about a week. :)
Random is ok with me, but we should chose some parameters like landform at least.
No jungle starts this game would be nice...
Fully agree with Kemal! Some familiarization with the editor would be required as well btw.
@ERIKK: Jungle still needs clearing but only a very few turns.
I agree with Kemal too. I think I mostly prefer continents or archipelago. It's a shame there's no random function where you get one of those three (except tilted axes).
What has also crossed my mind is the fact that Kemal was beta tester and given his reputation at Civ3 he might be much much better than the rest of us. http://www.straland.com/images/smilies/undecided.gif But there's nothing to do about that, except take it easy on starting this game.
Rik Meleet
04-11-2005, 02:05
quote:Originally posted by MatrixWhat has also crossed my mind is the fact that Kemal was beta tester and given his reputation at Civ3 he might be much much better than the rest of us. http://www.straland.com/images/smilies/undecided.gif But there's nothing to do about that, except take it easy on starting this game.
Chicken...
Can I be a backup-player in case someone leaves the game early ? I am Dutch. I am disappointed (just not sure with what).
I have been playing a bit but I find it very diffcult to play civ 4. It is soooo different. It is truely a strategy game and you have to decide on your strategy the very first turns...
No civ 3 at all!!!!
Although the gameplay sucks (read gamespeed/graphics/loading game) I do love it! :)
Rik, same question as to Beam: why don't you play for yourself?
That's my plan, I was jsut referring to me acting as replacement in the 1st ddpp.
So, the players we have so far are:
Matrix
Kemal
ERIKK
ProPain
grs
Darkness
Beam
Well, if we have Plux or Stapel too we actually have the original crew plus more. :) Or shall we just start with these seven players?
well i am certainly out untill either i buy another pc or 2k comes up with some patches for my vidcard
7 players on a standard map is fine I think... When I look at the playerlist I see loyal/regular players. I have no doubt this game will move smoothly and that players will stick in the game. Also, at CDZ we have enough replacements available if needed.
All Civ 4 rookies except for Kemal I think? Maybe the map maker can put Kemal on a small remote island?
[meany]
You guys seem to forget I still do not have the game (can play from next weekend on though) and thus never played the full retail version, whereas you all have been playing already for a few weeks.
I'm a "noble" player at best. Really!
[mischief]
What a brilliant application of that smily, ERIKK. [lol]
But let's wait until the end of the week then. In the mean time we can post our preference. Although I don't know yet what Civ I like to be...
Eh, what are the differences in difficulty with only humans? [mischief]
And do we play archipelago, continents or pangaea? What climate?
And is the sequence of play I posted above ok? Plux preferred to go last, because he preferred to play around midnight. Cos we of course need to aspire one turn a day.
I prefer a lakes game. That would make it easy to reach all other players as the globe is round in civ 4.
Medium difficulty is best IMO although higher diff is ok with me too.
I must say I am still a rookie. I only played the game for 3 times now. This week I will have some time to do some experiments with it.
We also need a civ choice. I wonder if there a better civs/traits to play etc etc.
Darkness
08-11-2005, 11:00
quote:Originally posted by Kemal
You guys seem to forget I still do not have the game (can play from next weekend on though) and thus never played the full retail version, whereas you all have been playing already for a few weeks.
I'm a "noble" player at best. Really!
[mischief]
I don't have the game yet either. :(
It should arrive this week though... :)
Lake is ok with me, although I would prefer continents. I am pro medium difficulty, let's say noble for example. I am currently playing one game with Frederick at the weekends, but I am not that far into it. Besides that, I only tested some starts and fooled around a bit.
I think for map type we should stick with one of the choices that have been scripted with MP balance mostly in mind, a good thread about it can be found here, where Sirian explains things a bit later on in the thread: http://civ4players.proboards44.com/index.cgi?board=general&action=display&thread=1131076955
My preference would go out to islands, 7 participants should be doable on a standard map, but with more we might consider going for a large map instead, I suppose.
Islands looks so artificial. [sad] And Lakes is like a very big pangaea. I still prefer old fashioned archipelago, continents and pangaea. Terra is ok as well.
I have no real pref. except for balance. Played the balanced map one time and although it isn't as balanced what we are used to it showed reasonably distributed resources.
Hmm, maybe we should avoid too artificial maps, I agree. Still, having someone stuck in the ice as in the link I provided is a sure way of no fun at all. I've got no experience with most maps, Continents is my usual favorite, but I noticed that with 7 or more players there is usually one player stuck in tundra...
Reading Sirian's comments, Continents seems to be the worst choice for multiplayer. We could still try and give every player a mulligan to use during the first 3 turns. I guess we all are able to handle that wisely. How is that?
You can set up continents to have one player per continent...
I still prefer it like the 8game - where all players can reach each other. The lake map or Inner sea map can do that for us...
Sure, but then I'd rather have Pangaea. Besides, that's in the line of DDXP tradition as well. ;)
I think it'd like to be England, replacing Victoria.
Pangaea? In line with ddxp? Iirc we played continents, didn;t we, or am I missing the clue here? [blush]
Anyway, we would miss out on a big part of the game by choosing pangaea, it would mean no or at least relatively little importance on naval combat...
But more than with lakes or inland sea. Anyway, we did play pangaea, but in Civ3 that still means you can have more than one continent. The amount of continents/islands is just very low. Note that next to our two continents there was absolutely no other land!
Ah ok, thanks for the clarification.
But if we use the notion of pangeae of one big round continent, having 8 players on a standard map still means this type is not best suited, imho. Who would ever want to start in the middle on such a map, instead of having some safe corners in your empire where it borders the sea?
That means unbalancing starts are a given, regardless of the distribution of resources.
Yeah but Kemal, that's part of the game, I hear people think? Well, agreed, but if it can be easily avoided while still having a fully random map, why unnecessarily make life miserable for one or two of us by condemning them to a diplomatically very weak position from the beginning?
lakes or inner sea does not have such a problem... ;)
I've made a poll (http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=3225) about the map setting dispute. I hope you agree with the options I've offered. Unfortunately multiple answers isn't possible here.
By the way, the resources are quite balanced in a "Balanced" game, but the relative starting location isn't. Look at the example Sirian gave:
http://www.straland.com/tmp/sample-balanced.gif
And please pick a leader. I'd like to get this game started. http://www.straland.com/images/smilies/modest.gif
Ghandi please...
leaders: http://www.civfanatics.com/civ4/reference/leader_picker.html
Darkness
14-11-2005, 09:20
quote:Originally posted by Matrix
And please pick a leader. I'd like to get this game started. http://www.straland.com/images/smilies/modest.gif
You'd better just play with six players then...
Play.com still hasn't delivered my game... :(
And I'll have to see if it works when I get it, 'cause the systems requirement check says my graphics card is not good enough... :(
I'll pick Egypt. However, I wouldn't advice starting yet before the first patch arrives, it seems some annoying bugs are still present in the game. :(
Pastorius
14-11-2005, 20:11
@Darkness: weird. As I said per pm, it didnt take longer than the estimate they gave me per email when I confirmed my order.
You d think it would be even easier to ship within the EU as well, no?
Tried to bug them, nag, whine, complain yet?
Sorry for the threadjack
I'll pick France, imo it is ok to jsut wait until everybody can play the game.
Darkness
14-11-2005, 22:57
quote:Originally posted by Paalikles
@Darkness: weird. As I said per pm, it didnt take longer than the estimate they gave me per email when I confirmed my order.
You d think it would be even easier to ship within the EU as well, no?
Tried to bug them, nag, whine, complain yet?
Sorry for the threadjack
Policy says: "Wait for 14 days, because the object may still be in transit, due to unforseen postal delays."
:(
quote:Originally posted by Beam
imo it is ok to jsut wait until everybody can play the game.
I garee.
quote:Originally posted by Beam
I'll pick France, imo it is ok to jsut wait until everybody can play the game.
Which one? Would it be possible that we both play France, but with different leaders (although I guess you want Louis too)?
I don't believe that's possible, grs.
Can i join too?
I'd like to be Qin She Huang of China.
Balanced map is resource balanced, not placement/land balanced.
Inland sea is very nice, but i've seen people start too close. Make sure there is enough room!
Well, at least now I'm not the most epxerienced civ4 player anymore by default. ;)
Btw, after playing some more, I'm gonna change my pick to Alexander of Greece. Egypt doesn't really suit my style after all... [mischief]
After thinking about the map. Continents would be nicest to include naval warfare. Is it possible for an outside source to review the starting locations, or create the battlefield? Not meaning to artificially create one, but only to verify no one's in a fucked position.
That way we can all start relatively equal. :)
Oh, when we gonna start?
Well, I'm with Erik that I think all players should be able to reach each other, and I'm also not too fond of giving everyone much room if we are going to play on noble, since in that case the ancient age comes and goes before anything has really happened, losing a significant part of the game.
Also, the more isolated the starts, the better I think Financial/Industrial (QSH) becomes compared to the other traits.. ;)
Especially aggressive and creative seem to lose a lot on spaced/isolated starts, imho.
Ok, that's true.
What i have seen happening that players have met eachother within the first 3 turns. Yesterday even in the first turn!
That should be avoided tho.
How about pangaea with natural shoreline then? (see Sirian's map reference)
Perhaps the map can be checked by opening the World Builder? Can that be done with the admin password, or is it completely locked?
I'll pick Catherine of Russia.
Darkness
29-11-2005, 10:35
Sorry you all had to wait for me (stupid play.com), I think I am the last to pick a leader...
Been playing around a bit and I'd like to be Huayna Capac
Hate to do this, but I'm pulling out. Don't expect to be able to play much untill end of january and I dont wanna be the one holding you guys up.
[cry]
I'll be keeping an eye on the game though!
Sorry but I am pulling out too. I dont have too much time on my hands lately and am also disappointed in the game for known reasons. Don't misunderstand me I think civ IV will be great once it's a great deal more playable.
I bought the game weeks ago but I played it no more the 5 times. That says enough for me... :(
Well, since I still do not even have the retail version yet, I can't comment... but maybe this one was organized just a bit too soon, and should be put on hold until further notice. [ponder]
Darkness
29-11-2005, 20:07
Maybe wait 'til early january and then see how many people still want to play/have time to play?
Should things move into january I might reconsider. Since I saw people picking civs already I thought the game was gonna start within days. I'll keep an eye on this thread and yell should I see possibilities to participate anyway.
Well, it actually suits me better too. [mischief]
What 'known reasons', ERIKK? I must confess I fell back to Rome - Total War about two weeks ago and barely play Civ4 now. But it'll probably come back.
I *still* can see pieces of rivers in undiscovered land (the black tiles). Sometimes I see all undiscovered land. Check the CFC Nvidia bug thread for more info. Since 1.09 I lost the ingame music. It seems it doenst save the map where to check for the music. Maybe I can work around it but at that time I couldn't be bothered.
Performance is still shitty.
I hope they are working on another - better - patch. 1.09 might be a rushed patch for immediate damage control... I havent lost all interest in Civ IV but at the moment I am not playing at all.
Yea, that's nasty.
I haven't encountered any bug at all yet. Perhaps my machine is better tested/supported.
So what's up? Are we ready to ignite yet?
Just to revitalise this a bit:
Matrix - Victoria
Kemal - Alexander
ERIKK - Ghandi
ProPain - ???
grs - Catherine (???)
Darkness - Huayna Capac
Beam - France (which one?)
Cruise - Qin She Huang
Anyone wants to change his leader? I am rethinking at least. It could be wise to adjust this once we agreed on a map type.
Map type: Last, unchallenged suggestion was pangaea with natural shoreline. Judging from the pic below, it seems to me pressed or solid would be better. Other suggestions were e.g.
lakes - but I have to add that lakes has no world wrap, which makes it not such a good choice imho.
inner sea - would be my preferred choice
continents - probably very unbalanced
http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/grs/20061981416_sample-pangaea.jpg
157.84*KB
I would advise to re-read this guide (http://www.civfanatics.com/civ4/reference/map_scripts_guide.php)
Some said they want to drop out, is this really the case? Everyone got his copy up and running?
Darkness
09-01-2006, 11:02
I'm still here and good to go.
Regarding the map: I have no real preferences as long as the starts are reasonably fair.
But, IIRC, Kemal hasn't got the official game yet...
[blush2], Indeed I still do not have a copy, I should be receiving a free copy any time now, but I've been told that for the last 2 months now. [sad]
I can still play some turns, or let Eldakkar play them for me from time to time, if that's okay? But then I can't guarantee much/any powersessions early in the game...
quote:Originally posted by Kemal
[blush2], Indeed I still do not have a copy, I should be receiving a free copy any time now, but I've been told that for the last 2 months now. [sad] Wow, that is really sad. You get a free copy from beeing a beta tester and they let you wait for months? That's real ugly.
quote:Originally posted by Kemal
I can still play some turns, or let Eldakkar play them for me from time to time, if that's okay? But then I can't guarantee much/any powersessions early in the game... No panic, we need all others to respond, find a map type and settings we want, etc.pp. I guess that will take some time anyways.
I've changed my mind: I'd like to be Egypt (Hapsehapsomething).
Concerning the map: I re-read that map guide and concluded I'm already playing on a completely ugly artificial looking map with the Ignition game. [sad] I very much prefer a 'normal'/'Earthly' map here, whether that's terra, naturally shaped pangaea, continents, snaky archipelago - I don't care. But not a systematic one. Besides, that would be totally un-DDPP-like! [tongue]
digger760
10-01-2006, 12:32
quote:Originally posted by Matrix
But not a systematic one.
How about Hyrodmatic? Or Grease Lightning
I don't know. What type of maps are those?
quote:
How about Hyrodmatic? Or Grease Lightning
Hehe... yeah digger, tell me more, tell me more, tell me moooore.
Btw, the usefullness of a leader heavily depends on the map specs, imo, so maybe we'd best agree on that first. Simple continents seems good enough btw for me, resource may be unevenly divided but that was the same in ddpp#1.
digger760
10-01-2006, 14:45
quote:Originally posted by Kemal
quote:
How about Hyrodmatic? Or Grease Lightning
Hehe... yeah digger, tell me more, tell me more, tell me moooore.
[rotfl]
Random thought: map balancing will be much more difficult now, since there are more and unevenly important resources. Don't have marble? [shrug] Don't have iron? That sucks! Don't have coal? Oil? You're doomed!
Darkness
02-03-2006, 11:14
So....
Now it's march already. Is there still interest in reviving this?
Yes!!
I'd love to get this game started. The only problem is Kemal. I don't think he'll ever get his Civ4 for free. [mad] So either we play without him, or he should go to the shop soon and buy it.
Other than that I'd say go. :)
You guys just go ahead and play np, sorry to have apparently kept you waiting for all this time to get this started..
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