Changing training

[Shabbaman]

OK,

I'm thinking about switching to a different form of training. I have the idea that forward training isn't brining me where I want. The upcoming wing-attack change will make it even worse. Added to that, it's likely that all of my forwards will change level pretty soon.
So I got the opportunity, and I'm thinking of training wingers. My wing attack is weak, so I can list any trainee immediately in my first squad. But I'm a bit at a loss whether or not it's making a lot of money. It looks promising though.

Any ideas?

[Kemal]

I agree that forward training is not the way to go, probably, especially with the new changes...

However, selling non-winger forwards now will very likely result in extremely poor prices the coming few weeks, as the "forward-with-wing" hype reaches its peak. Once everyone has figured out that this a FTW is useless as there are no suitable candidates for at least 3 seasons, prices for normal forwards will - hopefully - get back to normal, which would be a better time to sell I think.

Whether wingers is good, I don't know, no experience with that, so maybe PP is a better candidate to give an opinion on that.

[Shabbaman]

I doubt FTW is good for anything, but that's another discussion. Does winger training affect "FTW" as well, or is there a "offensive winger" training (just like there are two different kind of passing training)?

So PP is training wingers?

[ProPain]

I trained wingers for a while. It sucked big time :) Well that's a bit exagerated, but the winger market is kinda slow. So youhave to buy wingers with nice secondaries and be prepared to take a while to sell em. Prices werent great either but it has been a while so maybe things improved.

I'm sticking to forward training for a while, I need decent forwards myself anyway. Just hoping the market will be back on its feet when I'm ready to sell in 2 seasons or so.

[Kemal]

Strangely enough there doesn't seem to be a mass-winger training program, but just the 4 players on the wings. Agree with you on the FTW = crap assessment, but who knows... it might be wishful thinking on my part with my poor/poor/wretched winger skill forwards. :)

@PP: training them for the same reason myself as well!

[Dell19]

I've got 4 scoring trainees that are only halfway through their training so there is little point in selling them early. I was going to sell another trainee at brilliant but the prices were awful so I'm going to try and sell him at magnificent at the end of the season when prices may be okay.

[Shabbaman]

Wouldn't the weakening of the addition to the wing attack increase demand for wingers? To me it seems very likely that the HT-team is doing everything to increase wing/special events/everything not related to 3-5-2...

[Dell19]

A few people I've talked to think it strengthens the 3-5-2 since they can play one offensive winger and a WTM still whilst a scoring trainer has to go through the middle or sacrifice midfield slightly for a wing attack.

[Shabbaman]

Exactly why I'd like to change my strategy to something different 3-4-3. If the HT-team wants to make the midfield less important, then it's difficult to see why they're making other strategies worse.

[arne1]

I disagree it helps 3-5-2 players. Why would you ply with a WTM if you allready controll the midfiled anyway (since most 3-5-2 players train playmaking) so what you need is a decent attack. So you put your wings attackking. So you do not need a FtW. if you play 3-4-3 howeever you need to sacrafice one winger to have some hold on the midfield. Now you can compensate your weak wing bij putting one of your three forwards towords the weak wing and have to acceptabel wings wtihout making your central attack weak, because that is where yuor strength is.
What are your arguments?

[Dell19]

As an example a playmaking and a scoring trainer could have the same midfielders, the playmaking trainer can play a WTM to tip the possession in their favour so overall they can get a higher possible midfield.

If they don't have to play a WTM then they can play two wingers and since winger contribution has been increased then their side attack ratings will be higher.

FTWs could help scoring trainers gain something from the change but there are not many suitable players and the only effect that has happened so far is the destruction of the market for strikers. Magnificients are now selling for only slightly more than brilliants were last season, brilliants slightly above the price that outstandings were.

[Shabbaman]

quote:Originally posted by arne1

Now you can compensate your weak wing bij putting one of your three forwards towords the weak wing and have to acceptabel wings wtihout making your central attack weak, because that is where yuor strength is.
What are your arguments?


It does make your central attack weaker, and you are forced to play either AIM or FTW to compensate for the loss of the addition to the wing attack. And your wing attack already was weaker because you had to sacrifice a wing.

[Swingue]

I train keepers for one good reason.

It doesn't take a lot of time and consideration ;)

[Shabbaman]

Right.

;)

So PP, I was wondering, were you training "youngsters" or complete midfielders (like, 20 y.o.) ?

EDIT:

I just read that there's a new kind of training, training both wingers and attackers. But because you can train more players, it's less effective. I'd like to see some specifics here...

[Shabbaman]

[bump]

I'm looking more into winger training. It looks like only 5% of the total training is winger training, compared to the 28% of midfield training the difference is huge. People only need 1 more midfielder than wingers, well, depending on the tactic. But the average would be at least 1 winger. Since you can train less players, combined with the low amount of winger trainers I'd say the demand should be large.

The transfer price evaluation doesn't show this though, unfortunately.
You can train only 5 players compared to the forward trainers 6. Winger training is one to two weeks faster, but that'd be compensated due to the fact that you'd be training older players.

[Kemal]

How are you able to train 5 players? With 2 games a week, the number of trained players should always be even, and for wingers, wouldn't it be 4x2 = 8 (or 3x2 = 6 rather, since wingbacks count only for half)?

All I can say is that for the demand in wingers, I personally tend to see them as least wanted, or I should say, the winger skill that is. Their main skill is winger, but that only improves a sector in your ratings where approx. 30% of your chances will take place, meaning that in an average "5 chances per team match", you will be using your winger skill just once.

This makes the pure winger actually have the smallest effect on the rating comparison between teams of all players, in a regular 50/50 game, whereas if he is a pure midfielder played towards the middle, the boost in midfield will be taken into account 10 times each match. Only if you already have certainty the midfield will be yours, winger skill could become important.

And even then, attacks in the middle occur 40% of the time, so investing in scoring/middle attack first would seem a better idea (and they boost the side attacks with their scoring (a little) too!).

Just my thoughts on wingers, of course, the market may or may not agree...

[Shabbaman]

Argh, you're driving me crazy with your casual calculations! One thing you should keep in mind is that with the new change wing attack is actually weakened (at least my wing attack is). A lot. So roughly speaking, if half of the chances are on the wing, half of the chances are lost if you don't have decent wings.

You're right, I meant 6.

[Kemal]

Agreed, more than half of the chances are coming through via the wings.... but you need 2 wingers to pump 2 wings, and most of the available systems to play are not nerfed to support 2 offensive wingers.

Moreover, whereas 2 wingers only increase wing attacks, 2 great strikers actually increase central attack plus both wings (a little), especially if they are able to be played as FTW (a lot more), which also leaves more tactical versatility, since that allows you to spread your attack any way you like between central and wing attacks, and still allows you the option to set your winger to any order you like, or even reposition the winger to another location.

Again, this is merely my reasoning on the situation, but I can't see why it would be worthwhile to splash a ton of cash on 1 or 2 expensive players unless the other sectors in my team would already be at a very high level, especially midfield, since the value of the winger skill is directly linked to how much chances your team creates. Since the winger spot is also the second best spot to increase your midfield from, that would make the choice to go for 1 or even 2 offensive wingers even more difficult...

edit: Btw, I do think offensive wingers are a useful addition to the team, I use them myself more than half of the time.... but I can understand why the winger market isn't as succesful as some other markets are.

[Shabbaman]

quote:Originally posted by Kemal

Agreed, more than half of the chances are coming through via the wings.... but you need 2 wingers to pump 2 wings, and most of the available systems to play are not nerfed to support 2 offensive wingers.

Moreover, whereas 2 wingers only increase wing attacks, 2 great strikers actually increase central attack plus both wings (a little), especially if they are able to be played as FTW (a lot more), which also leaves more tactical versatility, since that allows you to spread your attack any way you like between central and wing attacks, and still allows you the option to set your winger to any order you like, or even reposition the winger to another location. (wow, that's a single sentence!)


Which makes it even worse. If you're playing with only 1 winger, 25% of your chances are automatically forfeited unless you're playing FTW. But FTW doesn't add much to your central attack.

Tactical repositioning my ass, I doubt if that has won me a single game ever. I do get your point though, but I'm really not sold on the FTW. To me it feels my team now has an amputated wing. Playing 3-4-3 won't get me out of this league ever.

[yndy]

I think that the winger is the only position where you HAVE to have a multi-skilled player. A winger is actually another midfielder with the ability to boost attack on the side. This is how I see them. A winger with no playmaking skill is just like a forward with passing skill but no scoring skill. A winger with playmaking skill but no winger is also like the forward with no scoring but passing. Therefore, winger trainers should buy decent playmakers and train them in wing.

Also the wingback position is awful for training but also for sale. Noone wants a true wingback, there are always other priorities. But you need to play a guy with defense on the wingback training spot, otherwise you lose defense seriously.

I recommend you train something else than winger Shabba. Try midfielders or defenders.