View Full Version : ***Spoiler*** vs. Grahamiam
killercane
11-09-2005, 23:51
Grah was nice enough to indoctrinate me into PBEMing and so heres the game. Here are the settings (Me-Rome; Grah-Greece), map graciously provided by Rik:
@killercane:
The settings I propose are as follows:
size: tiny
level: emperor (for tech cost and barb purposes)
barbs: roaming
SGL's off
No SoZ (no ivory)
landmass: pangea with chokes connecting our main settling areas
each of us picked a civ with an Ancient Age UU
Locked war (to eliminate War Happiness advantage)
Exploits disallowed:
Palace jumping (ie, disbanding your palace city to get a new palace), ship chaining illegal. City view scroll ahead ok.
Strategy
Well I think I will get beaten soundly by Grah, as he is quite good. Ive read through his spoilers to try to get a feel for him, and one advantage I do have is he wont know what to expect from me. I figure going all out to find the elusive choke is primary goal #1. Grah seems to favor a mid to late AA attack, and with it being a tiny map Id best be ready for some warring. I'll start out working on bronze at a discount, and Im counting on him going for pots right away, so hopefully I get a discount on that before I trend towards iron working. Heres the start, an interesting dilemma:
http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/killercane/2005911234352_SP32-20050911-173104.gif
128.23*KB[/img]
killercane
11-09-2005, 23:55
You can make arguments for starting the worker on the BG, the wines or the wheat, but I think I'll choose the wines for a mine and road. I need those warriors out asap to explore this here world. The wheat looks tasty on border expansion, and I'll need to run some math on what is going to give me the best start.
Ginger_Ale
12-09-2005, 13:27
Make sure you mine first because of the Despotism penalty the road won't affect the tile.
killercane
12-09-2005, 16:24
Yep, I wouldnt road it at all initially if the settings were below emperor, and irrigation is lost as well. I need the happy boost to get as many warriors out exploring as possible to find and control the choke or chokes. Hopefully the barbs or Grah wont show up before 3000 BC.
Im thinking 2 south on the hill for City 2; hopefully there is iron underneath to make for easy connects/disconnects with the capital.
killercane
05-10-2005, 18:58
More updates. Some possible chokes found, and a final decision on city 2 has been made.
http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/killercane/2005105185840_big picture.jpg
161.82KB
killercane
05-10-2005, 19:02
I went ahead and did masonry to open up a run on math later. Im sure theres iron nearby. The eastern portion of the map may have another choke, Ill need a warrior to check that. The barbs are running around, I might have to switch the settler to an archer.
2 chokes are west from the looks of it, and city 2 will be 3 se by the cow. I would like to have plopped down on the hill but that wouldnt make as much sense with the cow available.
killercane
07-10-2005, 04:39
The latest development. We see green. Ive never wanted barbs from a hut before, but here I think we'll hope for some nomadic warriors to make it 5 hostiles around Grah's capital. What are my warriors chances for survival on emperor? On a hill? Im too lazy to check but it cant be too bad.
http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/killercane/200510743741_SP32-20051006-223035.jpg
49.49*KB
Rik Meleet
07-10-2005, 09:14
You will survive barb attacks. You might loose Grah's attack.
But why would you want to stay fortified? You'd be a lot more irritating for Grah if you move around, disturbing his workers, settlers, popping huts and gaining a lot of information about his lands.
Pastorius
07-10-2005, 09:53
garee with mr. Orca
enemy units rambling about are annoying as hell
Ginger_Ale
07-10-2005, 13:16
Yeah, you'll survive.
It's ~70% chance of survival if one attacks, ~50% if two attack, and ~40% if all three (very rare) attacks. They'll probably head for grah land.
killercane
07-10-2005, 15:13
My thoughts are pop the hut, and coincide moving into Grah's vision at the same time with both warriors. The one by the hut is ahead of the other one. It looks like we have mirror starts, so I should encounter the wheat with the top warrior and the wine (or other lux) with the other one. He'll have to make a decision on which warrior to kill. If he's built a hoplite I can hopefully start his golden age, any worker harassment is extra, plus whatever the barbs do if I pop them.
I also thought about sending in the northern warrior first to the wheat, draw him out, then send in the other one from the bottom. This might be the better plan if I can figure out where he has his worker or if he actually has a hoplite around (which I kind of doubt but who knows). I reckon I'll pop the hut and go from there.
killercane
09-10-2005, 19:19
Hut popped, and I did not get barbs which has its pluses and minuses I suppose. I received a conscript warrior which is pretty great in this situation. My northern warrior was evidently attacked by a barb. Heres the current state of Grah's territory, he has moved a warrior down from the capital:
http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/killercane/2005109191827_SP32-20051009-121154.jpg
57.31KB
Rik Meleet
09-10-2005, 19:28
This game could be over quickly...
This really looks promising, if you dare to attack him now. He might be able to poprush a Hoplite, but that would really hurt him. Good luck, if you give him enough pressure in this game, he might make a mistake in mine [evil].
killercane
10-10-2005, 03:16
We're on turn 34 now. The warrior brigade pillaged the mine on Grah's wines, and then attacked. The 3/3 warrior beat his warrior, lost a hp on an archer bombard, but promoted to 3/4. The 2/3 warrior took a hp off the archer to leave it at 2/3. I decided against using the conscript across the river, and retreated him to the North. The 3/4 warrior lost against the archer next turn. The former conscript managed to get the Wheel from another of Grah's goody huts and got promoted to 3/3 by some barbs.
Iron has been researched, and the two irons are forward of the capitals near the chokepoint. Hopefully I can get my granary done and lock up that position with a settler in another ten turns, popping another hut in the process.
Nice work 'Cane. He can't be happy about this turn of events.
Rome is power! Rome rules! Rome is the strongest! [evil]
IMHO, you started a bit too close to each other. Can you post a zoomed out map with both your capitals with grid turned on? Or at least minimap? Apparently Rik was eager to see some early rush finally. ;)
killercane
10-10-2005, 05:56
Ask and ye shall receive. We started 12 tiles away, isnt that about average for a tiny map? Minimum is 9 tiles for SP games isnt it?
http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/killercane/2005101055439_full screen.jpg
87.96KB
Actually, 12 tiles is barely a minimum, I mean for a reasonable game with human players. Must admit, I have never started that close on a direct land route. It is ideal situation for an early rush. Bet Grahamiam did not expect that. Don't think Greece is a very good choice for a civ on that kind of map. Scientific trait is rather useless since this bloodbath is not expected to last more than 120 turns. Also, it is hard to avoid despotic golden age and Greek UU is rather dull compared to legion if you can secure the iron.
killercane
10-10-2005, 14:39
Greece isnt ideal in this early situation, you're right. Rome's quick barracks and well timed UU are great here.
His best hope right now is to win a war of attrition. I'll have about 8 legions online in <20 turns. They'll be moving in with a few archers for protection.
Pastorius
10-10-2005, 16:50
woohoo.bathing time soon then
Kick his tooshie
lol, I said tooshie
killercane
11-10-2005, 18:33
Turn 49-
Grah has been running his settler factory and has 4 cities now. Ive been building troops. Rome does 10 shields +the wheat at size 6, so Ive been building warriors and archers, and then a worker at size 7. I plan on joining 2 of them back for the golden age to do 15 shields/turn at size 9.
Im trying to decide if 8 legions and 3 archers are enough to take his capital. I think they are, but if I send in one legion to start the golden age, then wait for a few turns, Ill have about 20 legions to send over. He doesnt have iron hooked up yet. I dont think he has a barracks in his capital either. My military is strong against him with just 3 archers and 8 warriors. I have almost 400 gold.
Im building a settler in the cow town but switched it to Pyramids to make him wonder. Kind of lame but Ive put some hints out that I might be building up the economy rather than building troops. Ive also hinted Im building troops. Hopefully he doesnt know what the hell Im doing.
quote:Originally posted by killercane
.... Hopefully he doesnt know what the hell Im doing.
That is very unlikely. I think he perfectly knows what you are doing. ;)
killercane
11-10-2005, 22:16
Dont dash my hopes Akots! I dont think he knows *exactly* but he surely has a good idea. I think Ill move in with the smaller force and go from there. He doesnt have enough firepower to dislodge 8 legions anyway.
grahamiam
13-10-2005, 04:08
great game, perfectly played :) I didn't have a chance! I heard akots needs a lesson ;)
grahamiam
13-10-2005, 04:10
quote:Originally posted by grs
Good luck, if you give him enough pressure in this game, he might make a mistake in mine [evil].
don't be so sure, though i have been losing quite a lot lately :)
killercane
13-10-2005, 04:27
A good game all around. I replayed the warrior rush where I wussed out and didnt attack with the conscript. I should have been even more aggressive, though that little guy did get me a tech.
http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/killercane/2005101342638_turn 26b.jpg
88.67KB
romeothemonk
13-10-2005, 05:03
What was the outcome here? Who won and how?
quote:Originally posted by grahamiam
great game, perfectly played :) I didn't have a chance! I heard akots needs a lesson ;)
Well, you did not have much of a chance because you played Greece and obviously having Golden Age with only a single city would spell a sure doom for you. Besides, in this game, you were really very closely located to each other.
I have a certain MP experience with warrior and archer rushes and Greece is the worst possible case to counter that (besides Carthage). I'd say Greece is 50-60% loss and Carthage is 80-90% early loss against any other civ, especially militaristic one.
So, how did it end?
killercane
13-10-2005, 11:50
Sorry here you go. I moved 3 archers to move away Grah's lookouts and then followed up with 7 legions on the Legion Superhighway, followed by 2 more legions one step behind them. Grah knocked one legion off and damaged another before I could get to this capital. There was an archer and 3 or 4 hoplites in Athens.
Legion Road:
http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/killercane/20051013114640_legion superhighway.jpg
52.03KB
http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/killercane/20051013114730_before attack.jpg
47.73KB
http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/killercane/20051013114840_after attack.jpg
46.32KB
vBulletin® v3.7.3, Copyright ©2000-2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.