PDA

View Full Version : Barbu vs DavidC ****SPOILER**** NOT FOR BARBU


DavidC
11-08-2005, 11:21
First thanks a lot to Barbu for accepting this friendly challenge from an...enemy ;)
Huge thanks to the Map maker Darkness, Prince of GOTM, for a very quick map !
And thanks to everyone at CDZ for accepting to have me here :)

Here are the caracteristics of this game :
Civs:
Barbu: Mayans
David: Iros
4 other AIs

Settings:
Landtype: Pangea (each start at different ends)
Size: Standard
Dificulty: Emperor
SGL: Off
SoZ: Off
Barbs: Many

And here is the start :

http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/DavidC/2005811101257_pbem-barbu-3950.JPG
35.06*KB

As you see the starting location was very interesting, I hesitated a lot but finally decided not to settle on the spot
but to make this gold hill my second city location, could be a totally stupid move but here are the reasons why :
1- I hate coastal capitals on Pangea maps.
- Having asked for a "long pangea" I was very scared that the coastal tile on the far left, next to the cow
and BG would be the other side of the land and that I would only have a very limited number of close first core cities.
- The fact that it was a super starting loc could explain this (great capital, weak 1st core)
- I need a productive frst core early in the game in order to use my UU/GA to the max efficiency.
- Being the only civ with Alpha I was rather secure on my Philo gamble, even without the gold hill.
- the lost turn on the opening could be gained back by using the cow on the first turn instead of the tenth, I could reach
size 2 at the same time or even before than founding on the spot.
- My plan was to have 2 early productive cities : the capital on settler factory (also possible by moving one tile west)
and a coastal cities to get curraghs out asap. If my capital was coastal, producing curragh would have delayed the
settler factory.
- I could build the capital one tile west of the gold hill and the coastal city on the forest one tile south east of
the gold hill, on the river and not compromising the settler factory.
- also a lot of tiles would have been unnecessary for the settler factory with this start : I am not a big fan of early
SuperFactories (1 warrior and 1settler every 4 turns) when you are not industrious.
- other reasons which I forgot :D

So after a lot of hesitation I went for the move one tile west. Moving the worker did not gain any map knowledge
because of being already on a hill :(

Next turn I move the worker on the cow and here is the result :
http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/DavidC/2005811101326_pbem-barbu-3900.JPG
38.78*KB


A completely different lay of land I would have ever imagined [sad]

The main reason for my initial move was moot, but now I could see a possibility to have an "internal" capital and
close FULL ring of inner cities like I really wanted. So to add insult to injury I moved AGAIN one tile west,
wasting a BG but still able to get a settler factory with minimum worker tasks and getting a very nice 2nd city
on the gold hill with whale, river and bg.

So I finally settled in 3850bc !

http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/DavidC/2005811101414_Barbu3700bc.JPG
86.21*KB


At least I am sure Barbu now thinks he is going to win with such a stupid opponent :)
However I am a bit of a maniac and I extensively plan my opening moves, I am still confident I did the right thing
given the info I had, I did not lose too much by this delay and we will see if I jeopardized my philo gamble.

I decided to go for Warrior (produced in 3600bc) then settler which I accelerated by cutting the forest by the cow
(produced in 3300bc) that last one a particularly useful gain of speed as I went from 16 shields to 30 in one turn
combining 4 shields of a BG, the cow and my center to the 10 of a forect cut, not wasting one single shield in the
process and getting a very early settler with minimum loss (went back to size 2 just 2 turns later)
http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/DavidC/2005811101524_Barbu3300bc.JPG
104.72*KB

and then granary (produced in 2670bc) with settler factory ready at exactly this time.
Allowing fourteen settlers to be produced until 1000bc.
My second city produced 2 curraghs since it had 3 shields at size 1 with 2 food bonus. If an AI or barbarians would
approach it could quickly swithc to warrior to defend my land.
The first warrior produced followed the hills and mountains and went looking for early contact. The lands around are
extremely good and we are going to grow very fast. The AIs are also very fast and have huge bonuses, 2 capitals were
at size 3 in 3600bc ??? Wheat on flood plains anyone [crazyeye]

http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/DavidC/2005811101436_Barbu3600bc.JPG
178.34*KB

DavidC
11-08-2005, 11:25
During a great power session we went to turn 29, 2590bc, just 2 turns from my second settler and I have met
2 AIs so far. See below a pix of my lands (with the DotMap).

The Sumerians were met first and had Warrior Code and Bronze Working, I traded BW for Alpha and 10g (all they had)
then jsut a few turns ago a lone chinese warrior was spotted in the south by my curragh chasing barbs.
The Chinese had CB on top of Masonry and Warrior Code but I could not exchange it for Alpha so I grabbed one of their
workers+10g (all they had) for Alpha, I was only 8 or 9 turns from Writing at the time and confident as the
tech pace was very slow for Pangea.

As you can see that early settler gives me a huge boost in score and I am now far ahead of Barbu already even though I was
trailing for a long time [evil] In the course of our power session we go to chat and I ran some simulations ( I use and excel
sheet) to guess his builds as I knew he settled on the spot and I saw from all your spoilers that you always have similar starts.
In 2900bc he claimed he had 2 workers (useless so early with industrious I find) 2 warriors and a granary. According to my
simulation it is possible (but in 2850bc) so he is a good player and maximized his start very well. He asaid his settler fac
ws ready in 2630bc wich is exactly the same date as mine so my 2 moves at the start are not too much of a problem now.
Especially that I see rivers everywhere and at least 3 super sites for major cities in my first ring !

Here is a very unthought dotmap, I want to bust barb camps with settling as much as possible. Barbs are Restless and
this will surely disturb my "all-out-expansion-farmers-gambit" strategy :(
http://img4.imageshack.us/img4/2426/pbembarbu2630dotmap0bt.jpg

{problem with the server is unabling me to upload, I had to use ImageShack}

Darkness
11-08-2005, 11:59
quote:Originally posted by DavidC

...as the tech pace was very slow for Pangea.


That's probably related to the fact that you're not playing with a full set of AI's (4 instead of 6). So it will take them longer to meet eachother, resulting in less trades early on.

BTW:
quote:Originally posted by DavidC

...Darkness, Prince of GOTM...

[blush2]
Thanks for the compliment, but I'm not that good, really...

One last note: Why don't you post a request for an own forum in site feedback (so you can keep all your spoilers together? Or you could request it from anarres or ProPain by PM... :)

DavidC
11-08-2005, 13:48
quote:Why don't you post a request for an own forum in site feedback
Already done it ages ago but no result ;)


quote:but I'm not that good, really

Oh yeah ? well why dont you play against me as well then ? :D

Darkness
11-08-2005, 14:32
quote:Originally posted by DavidC

quote:Why don't you post a request for an own forum in site feedback
Already done it ages ago but no result ;)



Nagging them tends to help... ;) (or sending a PM)

quote:Originally posted by DavidC

Oh yeah ? well why dont you play against me as well then ? :D

The following statement by Krys is, regrettably, still true:

quote:Originally posted by kryszcztov

The pace of the game is slow, as Darkness is usually busy


I am quite busy at the moment, and I don't think I'll start any more C3C PBEMs (I've still got 5 others running), with Civ4 coming this fall. So, thanks for the offer, but I'm afraid I'll have to decline...

Socrates
11-08-2005, 14:51
Thanks for this detailed spoiler !

Not sure at all about moving vs settling on spot. The only real advantage of your move is that you'll get more productive cities, which could be enough on its own. But you lost 2 turns and much gold (gold hill). Sure enough, the AIs act as a "buffer", so the gold isn't a big issue. Maybe you did the best move after all. What do CDZ masters think ? :)

DavidC
11-08-2005, 15:26
quote:The only real advantage of your move is that you'll get more productive cities
Thats a good enough reason on its own for me, merci :D
But according to my calcs I only lost a bit of production at the start which allowed him to get one worker/warrior ahead of me.
As said before in -2850bc, he had 1 city, 2 warriors, 2 workers and a granary. I had 2 cities, 1 warrior, 1 worker, 1 curragh and a granary 3 turns from completion plus my settler factory was up before his. I think I did not lose a lot.
As for the gold lost when you have only a size 1 city, its insignificant, its like people who have warrior MPs right at the start because they do not want to higher up the luxuries.

Also I can tell you now that I got Writing before the IAs even got Iron Working so early that I did not trade it off and went for a certain CoL gamble to get free Republic "someone" told me it was quite common in Emperor games [groucho]
I have not played at this level for a long time now and maybe I should have trained more with a few practice games as the IA is hard to guess sometimes.

Socrates
11-08-2005, 16:32
quote:Originally posted by DavidC

Also I can tell you now that I got Writing before the IAs even got Iron Working so early that I did not trade it off and went for a certain CoL gamble to get free Republic "someone" told me it was quite common in Emperor games [groucho]
I have not played at this level for a long time now and maybe I should have trained more with a few practice games as the IA is hard to guess sometimes.

You wouldn't have needed me to know this if you had played more on Emperor. [groucho] And before you confuse everyone here : it's "AI" (artificial intelligence) in English. [tongue]

BTW, I doubt that barbu kept his capital at size 1 for a long time. But I reckon your move is worth doing. I'm just wondering if it's actually better. [hmm] Maybe there's no answer.

DavidC
11-08-2005, 17:24
quote:BTW, I doubt that barbu kept his capital at size 1 for a long time
Well since he did not have a food bonus in his original 9 then he had his capital at size 1 for at least 7 turns right [groucho]
Even with 2 moves but irrigating the cow, I was at size 2 in 6 turns only [:p]
Also I saw on F11 that he went for a quick worker because he had his capital at size 1 until turn 16 (3200bc) : thats way longer than me ;)

DavidC
11-08-2005, 17:26
Oh and thanks for correcting my English [aargh]

DavidC
11-08-2005, 18:23
We played another power session this morning and are now on turn 40.

Here is a view of my lands, expansion is quite fast as you can see. I also like very early granaries ;)
Grand River is a great site pulling in 4 shields with none lost to corruption right now, I am very glad about my move inlands the more I think about it...

http://img85.imageshack.us/img85/6247/pbembarbu21103id.jpg

The barbs are definitely going to be a problem, I had to settle Cattauragus in my dotmap spot but not on fresh water because of damned barbs.

I love curraghs to explore Pangeas as the exploration goes real fast as you can see, in all directions.
I met the Incas way down south by the huge mountain range, this will for sure prevent me from visiting Barbu with my MWs..or maybe not, too early to tell.
I did not trade with Incas as they were only IW up on the other AIs but would not sell it to me for Writing+40g so they must be reseraching it themselves. I do not mind not trading Writing to try and keep my gamble safe. I will have 8 cities by the time I get CoL and should get Philo maybe 8 or turns after that. Risky, risky, but even if I dont get Rep for free I will get it before anyone else am sure.
And seeing the tons of luxes easily grabable in my immediate vicinity, Republic is definitely the way to go...

http://img85.imageshack.us/img85/5466/minimap2110copy6xo.jpg

Finally the Celts have been spotted by my curragh but I have no contact with them yet, I might park there a few turns and see if a unit appears :D

http://img4.imageshack.us/img4/1091/celts2110copy3tk.jpg

Socrates
11-08-2005, 21:07
Though I perfectly understand the reasons of your move inland, I don't get your dotmap... [crazyeye] Cities look too spaced, like if you wanted to grow to size 20 whatever happens... I myself converted to denser builds in Civ3, but in PBEM it's more important, I think.

Examples : I would have put Allegheny 1 tile NE of its current location. Same comment for Cattaraugus, where it could have harvested one more glou-glou. ;) Also these cities would have been productive sooner (1 turn :D ), suffer less corruption (distance 4 instead of 5). And defense would have been easier (who knows ?). With your MWs, I'm not sure you want to wait for the space age.

While I'm at it, I see that you left some bonus grasslands roaded but not mined. I wonder if your Excel sheets will give you as many shields as with mines for long. ;) Joke apart, it's surprising.

Last but not least, Cattaraugus I would have founded later. Your civ needs fresh water asap, and there are some free sites with fresh water not far from your capital that you should grab now ! [eek]

Kemal
11-08-2005, 21:25
Hmm, using shift-D instead of trusting the F4 advisor for diplo should have given you contact with the Celts with your curragh at that position, iirc..

DavidC
11-08-2005, 23:30
Indeed Kemal thanks for your help : the turn stopped here and we did not play another one so I should have contact next turn with the Celts right ?
I thought I would get contact with them only if you are in their "possible 21" and not on the perfect diagonal of it (if you see what I mean).
I am not sure that I could get contact because I was not one tile South West or one tile South East of their border.
Will check Shift-D ;) next turn for sure.

Kemal
11-08-2005, 23:33
Though next turn, they will probably show up on F4 as well... the shift-d thing is mostly useful when in danger of losing the unit to contact them with that turn, for example when on a suicide run. :)

DavidC
11-08-2005, 23:41
Shit I had no idea I could get contact same turn, wow ! Thanks a lot, I love your games and I am one of your "fans" so its great to learn something thanks to you !

DavidC
11-08-2005, 23:59
Oh Boy Krys you really are treating me hard man [cry]

But OK, its fair, I am an ennemy after all :D

However I can see that you are not as sharp as the amazing Kemal, my friend : are you really a bona fide micro-manager ? ;)
The reason I am not mining my roaded BGs is because there is absolutely no need to :)
Niagara Falls is a perfect settler factory which does not waste a single shield or food bread ! It goes from size 4 producing 6 shields to size 5 producing 7 shields
and grabs twice the extra 2 shields of the forest on growth to end up at exactly 30 shields on size 6 and go back to size 4 [fdevil]
Why waste very precious early worker turns to mine a BG in my capital's area when I will not need it for another 30 or 40 turns ?

As you can see my workers went instead straight towards the Wine which will be settled next turn and help my Philo run. Also the reason (extra commerce why the BG was roaded by the way),
the other road above on the grassland is to be able to go in 1 turn from Grand River to Niagara Falls for defense purposes.

As for the DotMap I know its not perfect and its quite a question of taste really, I usually use a tight core but here are my reasons why I have more space :
1- Looking forward in to Republic, there are not a lot of productive tiles so I want to keep all my hills intact (reason for Allegheny)
2- I want to pop huts with settlers, so far I have gained 25 gold (badly needed for my philo run!) and a conscript which defended Cattauragus vs a terrible ransacking)
3- Given the map and the huge mountain range I do not believe I cna end this game with Mounted Warriors so I indeed purposely want a very productive core
with size 12 cities working good tiles for a possible Industrial Age showdown. Barbu is a good player !
4- I always expand towards my ennemy in order to secure my territory early that is why some cities are not on fresh water.
5- My next settler might actually go all the way down to the Furs also founding on non-river. Its crucial to get them. Like its crucial for my Philo run to get the Wines asap.
These are just some of the reasons, I might come up with more later ;)

Socrates
12-08-2005, 00:37
I'm not an enemy, I'm a friend. [hmm]

Noted for the non-mined tiles. I thought I would ask you a save and make Excel sheets to see the reasons for that, but I preferred to ask you directly, I'm lazy ! :D There is a possibility to set up a wonderful factory in your capital, but I think you know it, and preferred to play differently. With so much land to grab, some MPs would have been useful. A matter of taste maybe.

Well, Cattaraugus could have been settled directly on furs then, no ? [hmm]

About the dotmap, a matter of taste as well, probably. But I think you want too much at the same time (huge cities with every shield you can have, with the most territory...). It's funny that you sometimes emphasize on long term development and sometimes on short term where I would have done the opposite in each case. [crazyeye]

Anyway, that's it for now. Good luck with the game. And yes, Kemal is twice as strong as me. I'll give you a candy if you beat him one day. [cool]

DavidC
13-08-2005, 01:31
Sorry Krys, you were hard on me so I was hard on you but thanks a lot for having me here and reading my spoiler.
Indeed the SuperFactory (like I call it) was too expensive and long (one really should have a rax too) to set up and I am now counting on other cities to provide MPs, there is plenty of them so that should be all right.

Things are moving nicely and we are on turn 52 (1700bc), I did not trade Writing and I could see the Incas were searching it because they would give me less and less for it. Once they had it, I contacted the Celts (most powerful AI) and they still did not have it and by the price they could pay they have not met the Incas yet.
I traded Writing around and I am now the tech leader (have all the know techs) and good money.
Here they are :
http://img202.imageshack.us/img202/166/science17006nu.jpg

I researched Code of Laws just a turn ago and thanks to hooking my second lux I can now research at 100% and can get Philo in just 6 turns :D
Now the stress begins but I really hope the AI will go for Map Making before Philo as they usually do...It would be a shame to miss it by so close but getting free Republic could be a game breaker actually.

Here is the lay of the land :
http://img163.imageshack.us/img163/4986/pbembarbu17003wk.jpg

DavidC
14-08-2005, 23:56
OK Game Over ;)

A few images speak louder than words....

http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/DavidC/2005814225038_PhiloRun1.JPG
89.57*KB

My strategy is to not trade any of the techs I have in front : Philo, CoL and Republic.
Sumeria and Incas have Math and Map Making.

I actually do not need any of the Ancient Age techs now I will just build up my empire with granary, rax and MWs and then attack very quickly.

Plus I want the AIs to stay in the Ancient Age as long as possible so my MWs dont encounter pikes for a while.

Plus I want Barbu to get to Republic as late as possible and maximize my early boost to the max :D

http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/DavidC/200581422512_PhiloRun2.JPG
85.62*KB

Note the very low anarchy period and only 2 taxmen [coool]



http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/DavidC/2005814235455_PhiloRun3.JPG
192.42KB


http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/DavidC/2005814225144_PhiloRun4.jpg
190.34*KB

Socrates
15-08-2005, 00:05
quote:Originally posted by DavidC

OK Game Over ;)

A bit quick IMHO. But definitely something in your favour.

quote:Note the very low anarchy period and only 2 taxmen [coool]

Could have been handy to actually see the advisor say the number of turns instead of whatnot. ;) Anyway, how many turns for 9 cities ?

Awaiting to see you play along your strategy, could be fun. I sometimes like to keep some critical techs for myself too, and that's what I'd do after a successful Republic slingshot in 57 turns. [thumbsup]

DavidC
15-08-2005, 00:31
Ooops wrong screenie [blush]
Let me rectify.

DavidC
15-08-2005, 01:10
quote:A bit quick IMHO
Didn't you notice the ;) wink ?

Socrates
15-08-2005, 01:43
3 turns, you're really lucky on top of that ! :)

As for the ;) smiley, someone could actually think "game over" and this smiley would act as a sign to search why it's game over. But whatever, barbu is in difficulty now. I have the feeling that Quebec will get smashed all over the place now.

"Vive le Québec libre !" :D

Rik Meleet
15-08-2005, 10:20
"Vive la Cuba Libre !"

Barbu seems to be struggling, if I may judge the scores. But I wouldn't claim a "game over" yet.

DavidC
17-08-2005, 12:42
I am not claiming a "game over" yet, no worries, I was trying to be funny but apparently cant make jokes in English.

Here is the situation in 1225BC, a nice F11 screen ( I am not in Golden Age).

http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/DavidC/2005817115036_barbu1225bc.jpg
175.3KB

A few turns ago the Incas had a warrior near an empty city of mine, I put a vet warrior in just 1 turn before they reached it but...they still attacked it !!
My vet warrior went to 1hp but I did not lose the town. However I am now at war vs Incas and got nice happyness from it. I allied both Sumeria, Celts and China vs Incas so
that I dont get attacked too early and disturb my growth plans. I am building granaries, and then rax in my 8 first ring cities and courthouses in my outer ring.
Soon horse will be connected and the war preparations will hit full power.

The only problem with this is that I intended to ge tthe Incas to declare vs Barbu in order to disturb *his* expansion plans..too bad.

Other incident is that he has a warrior in my borders which I explicitly forbid him to do. He is probably looking for war happiness too ;)

Stapel
20-08-2005, 10:39
quote:Originally posted by kryszcztov

Thanks for this detailed spoiler !

Not sure at all about moving vs settling on spot. The only real advantage of your move is that you'll get more productive cities, which could be enough on its own. But you lost 2 turns and much gold (gold hill). Sure enough, the AIs act as a "buffer", so the gold isn't a big issue. Maybe you did the best move after all. What do CDZ masters think ? :)


A capital will generate a lot of gold in its centre tile anyway, therefor gold hills are relatively more useful for non-capitol cities.

DavidC
27-08-2005, 15:54
We have a very nice speed for this game, I greatly enjoy it.

http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/DavidC/200582714592_barbu-650BC.jpg
182.95KB

Turn 90 was turning point : Barbu finally got Republic after the Celts discovered it before him and helped quicken his last few turns to it.
I did not trade anything during the whole phase leading up to it, as I wanted the AIs to get to MA as slowly as possible. It worked well, but my first target are the Sumers who have Feud which is not too nice except that they dont have Iron ;)
I was still able to do "last minute" trades with China the weakest AI, so that I am now in MA as well for no cost.
During this whole time I have been building granaries, rax and MWs in my first ring core of 8 cities and immediately courthouses in my second ring.
I purposely did not add cities after the FP message to limit corruption and I have a second ring city ready for FP construction with already a courthouse in it :) I will start it during my GA. It would be better to already have it but hey I cant have everything....
In a few turns all my first ring cities (6 of them) will produce at least 10 uncorrupted shields which is real handy when mass producing MWs. I have now 23 of them and wonder if I should attack with 30 or 40. I would like to wipe both Sumers and Celts (who have Pyramids) with just those 40 MWs so that I can fully concentrate on Infra builds during GA. With 6 cities at 10 shields, I produce almost 2 MWs per turn which means I just have to wait 10 or 12 more turns before attacking... What do you guys think I should do ?

During GA my first build will be Libs and then I will go on max science towards Navigation probably [mwaha] I wonder where I got this idea, hu ? [:p]


http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/DavidC/200582715146_barbu-F1-650bc.jpg
180.61KB

http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/DavidC/20058271525_barbu-F3-650BC.JPG
177.08KB

DavidC
06-09-2005, 11:29
+++++ WARTIME +++++++++

Ok Here we are it is turn 100 and and I have 32 MWs with 9 more ready in 2 turns !

I killed one of Barbus' explorer (he was annoying me and did not obey my orders to stay out) and I declared honourably vs Sumeria taking
2 border cities on the 1st turn of war.

So we are in Golden Age and with 40 MWs I will concentrate on Infra build from now on. I need Acqueducts, Markets and Libraries
I also cumulated 1600 gold which I will use to run deficit research : with Incas having declared and 4 luxes I do not need any lux tax.
I also have all my courthouses finished in my 2nd ring and my distant FP will be ready after 20 turns of GA.

DavidC
20-09-2005, 13:28
Ten turns later and Sumeria is pretty much wiped out (next turn) and I still have a huge supply of MWs to anihilate the Celts !


http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/DavidC/200592012268_WaronSumeria.JPG
172.41 KB

In Golden Age I can search techs in 4 to 5 turns with plenty of Scientists in ex-enemy cities and big deficit thanks to the money saved earlier. Mil Trad should come in around 20 turns :D

The Celts have Pyramids and could get Sun Tzu's I will have to time my moves carefully and conduct some espionnage missions...

DavidC
03-10-2005, 02:03
Not that many people seem to care but here is an update.

Celts are wiped out, and I still manage to research Techs in 4 turns (pretty rare for me in C3C) while out of Golden Age by having Scientists all over the ex-Celt cities.

Soon Barbu will have to deal with 30 cavs led by our supreme Cav army :D

Here are more details on the screenshots :


http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/DavidC/20051031117_BarbuEndofCelts.jpg
100.97 KB



http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/DavidC/20051031152_BarbuEndofCelts2.jpg
128.88 KB

DavidC
25-10-2005, 12:27
Its turn 142 and I am in full attack vs Barbu.
I have 30 cavs in or on their way to Barbu's territory and my core is producing strictly Cavs. At first I did not know if I should go all out
vs him but I think I have an edge : he had to abandon 2 border cities with Salpeter and I captured another undefended town with horses !
I hope these are his only resources, if that is so he is in trouble...
He is attacking my cavs with horses ! And seems to be already out of steam, although i suspect he is in Golden Age [crazyeye]
Both Incas and China are sending good troops and are a great support in this war of attrition, my aim is more to weaken him seriously rather than totally destroy him: I am too far from home to have a long campaign.
As you can see I got a leader very early on and sent him back to my borders to build another army as my first cav army destroyed 8 of his horses before dying.
I had no idea at the time if I could capture a city as he was abandoning everything.



http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/DavidC/2005102511279_BarbuAttack.jpg

classical_hero
27-10-2005, 17:41
It seems that you are doing very well without much help from the vet players here. You should win from the situation that you are in. Just because people aren't replying does not mean that we are not interested, it just means that we are looking from afar.

Socrates
27-10-2005, 18:46
I agree, but from day one I knew David was a strong player (you know why of course, David ;) ). No bragging on my part, as I'm sure I would have lost against him in PBEM. But I got a burnout... Civ4 is coming, so that will change. :)

Good luck ! We need a strong Frenchie here, even if you are on that other team. [groucho]

DavidC
01-11-2005, 14:38
Here is the last update on the game, I had prepared it before Barbu resigned and maybe it can give you some idea why...

My advance in Barbu's territory met no resistance, his workers were left unmoved and his cities undefended. I was quite surprised. He must have been totally out of money...
I just stopped science and gaining 500gpt (out of golden age) using it to rush Cavs and bring a steady amount of cavs his way, the window of opportunity is now.
On the diplomatic front my long standing friendship with China is paying off and the alliance with Incas is NOT a fake since I am truly at war with Barbu. I purposely signed an alliance with Incas and China so that Barbu was blinded and could not see that I also have an ROP and luxes deal with them so that I can cross their territory very fast to get to him. On the Incas side barbu could have easily gotten them on his side early on as they were long time ennemies of mine.

Here is a view a few turns after the last screen shot :
http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/DavidC/2005111131744_BarbuIncas.jpg
161.62KB
After the saltpeter city was out of his reach (due to his questionable policy of abandoning cities) I went straight for a Horse city (calakmul) hoping it would be his only resource (in retrospect I think it actually was...). I took it for one turn...
But I was shocked to see that Barbu retook it with an army loaded with only ONE horseman, what a mistake just one of my cavs destroyed his army in no time :(

http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/DavidC/2005111131923_barbuSmallArmy.jpg
165.17KB

Clearly he had neither Chivalry nor Mil Trad or no salpeter, the time to take the "coup de grace" was now !
He got me into partial trouble at one point by turning the Incas against me : this meant that my cavs could not cross the incans territory to get to him without suffering loads of damage and beign real slow, this could have been a problem if Barbu was not so much out of gas (he was not really creating new units)

However I had a solution for this too : that leader I got previously built an army right at the Incans north border in one of my cities so I used the Army to cover all my cavs and go down to Mayan lands : the Incans would not attack the army so my cavs could arrive in full health in his territory :D The Army Bus concept was invented... ;)

http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/DavidC/2005111132620_BarbuAttack4.jpg
176.32KB

That bus actually never made it to Mayan lands as Barbu was already in a desperate situation, after I destroyed his capital, he resigned. That stack you see on the fortress under his Knight are just 10 of his workers, he had only 2 or 3 knights left and no defenses...

http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/DavidC/2005111132833_BarbuAttack3.jpg
156.38KB


Conclusion :
Reading Barbu's spoiler now I can see he was only a few turns away from Mil Trad, which I knew because he sold his techs every time he got a new one (gunpowder, chemistry, metallurgy,..) so I knew exactly his timing and purpose. The fact htat I never sold an advance to the AI prevented him from getting those techs earlier and made the difference int he game.
I also believe that the first moves at the start : to go for a centrally located capital with a core of 8 cities in the first ring made the difference it allowed me to very quickly build numerous MWs to take care of the AI and them Cavs to take care of the human ;)
Some things I would have done differentif I were Barbu :
- on the diplomatic front : not getting the Incas allied early on when I was at war with them.
- on a military aspect : neglecting your resource cities ! and not putting everything he had to defend his empire under attack. He was in Golden Age when I attacked [mouthdrop] and there were no defense rushed at any time, workers were left mining mountains, etc...

Anyway it was a great game, played very quick and I hope we can have a Civ IV rematch in a few months :)