*** SPOILER *** TEAM GREMLINS - SuperFast 16+ PBEM

[Darkness]

So, this is the Spoiler for Team 6 of Markstar's super fast team PBEM!

Team 6 = TEAM GREMLINS:

kryszcztov
Banzai
Darkness

If you are playing the game with another team: Go back now! [estwing]

[Darkness]

@Krys & Banzai: We still need to discuss our team name and our preferred civs (5 of them). Let's do that on MSN, OK? Could the two of you perhaps make tomorrow night 22:00 CET?

[Banzai]

Ok! Date and time are fine :)

[digger760]

quote:Originally posted by Darkness

@Krys & Banzai: We still need to discuss our team name and our preferred civs (5 of them). Let's do that on MSN, OK? Could the two of you perhaps make tomorrow night 22:00 CET?


Tommorow night!!! a day and a half wasted[???], why not dicuss it here so us lurkers can compare you thoughts vs the others.

[Socrates]

Because it's a secret. [groucho]

Just stopping by to say that I won't be available before the late evening, but I'll eventually be there.

I'd suggest we renamed this thread's title to something like "NAME_OF_GAME ***SPOILER*** DARKNESS + BANZAI + KRYS", because many spoilers for this game with the same fucking name ("16+" thingie) is confusing. I'll also try to get the game renamed.

[Darkness]

quote:Originally posted by kryszcztov

like "NAME_OF_GAME ***SPOILER*** DARKNESS + BANZAI + KRYS", because many spoilers for this game with the same fucking name ("16+" thingie) is confusing. I'll also try to get the game renamed.


Then it'll have to be a short new name because thread titles have a maximum number of characters... (50 or so) [crazyeye]

[Darkness]

For the lurkers:

Team 6 - Gremlins

Civ1 - Iroquois (we're basically hoping to get lucky and have all other teams skip on the Iroqs 'cause it's the obvious choice and everyone will avoid it because they think every team will pick them).

Civ2 - Aztecs (Jagrushing is fun and we could potentially be very dangerous in the very early game).

Civ3 - Rome (Legions are very, very strong units in MP and starting with Alphabet is nice).

Civ4 - Egypt (Fast UU, which is available very early, and IND).

Civ5 - Greece (Hoplites will guarantee our safety for the first 60-80 turns, and Alphabet is the best starting tech).

[Darkness]

It has been decided....

Team Gremlins is Rome

Our third choice. I am quite happy with this actually. IMHO Rome is one of the best non-agricultural civs for MP.

The competition:
quote:Team 1 (Markstar + Whomp) - Civ = Dutch
Team 2 (Romeothemonk + Grahamiam + Bed_head7) - Civ = France
Team 3 (Eldakkar + Kemal) - Civ = Sumeria
Team 4 (Beam + Kingreno) - Civ = Ottomans
Team 5 (Barbu1977 + Melifluous) - Civ = China
Team 6 (Kryszctov + Darkness + Banzai) - Civ = Rome
Team 7 (Bathsheba666 + Ville) - Civ = Aztecs
Team 8 (Matrix + Killer) - Civ = Egypt

Only three teams got an agricultural civ, now let's hope they don't have a river... :)

[Socrates]

OK Darkie, we are ROME. :D Not sure it's that good in MP, never used them except in solo. But there are a few games with them, I think akots played them and managed to do well...

So we are militaristic and commercial, have the legionary, and start with Alphabet and Warrior Code. Obviously we'll use the UU to no end, so a mass upgrade can be in order. The commercial trait will help us doing fine in science later on, but in the beginning we'll need to focus on building a good network of cities with barracks.

I'd like us to immerse into the Roman theme in our diplo chats and stuff, might be fun ! [groucho]

[Banzai]

Cool!
The last time I played with Rome was years ago.
Are we going for a philo run?
Only France starts with Alphabet besides us right?

[Pastorius]

Ave Kryszcztov, he who shall spam salutes you [swordman]

[Darkness]

quote:Originally posted by Banzai

Cool!
The last time I played with Rome was years ago.
Are we going for a philo run?
Only France starts with Alphabet besides us right?



No, the Dutch are Seafaring so they also get alphabet as starting tech. In all likelyhood they'll have more commerce than us in the early turns (extra growth and extra commerce for city on coast) so I don't think we'll get philo first... :(

We should definately start on writing though. We can see what to do after that. :)

@Paali: Why ave Krys? Why not ave Banzai or ave Darkness? ;)

[Pastorius]

He was the one that was eager for Roman 5p34k

anyway, ave Darkness and ave Banzai. May your legions plow through your opponents [swordman]

[Darkness]

So, guys...

Since Smalltalk was able to program the turntracker for multiple recipients, can we all use our own email adresses for the game (instead of the one that Banzai created specifically for this game)? Not that I don't like the new email adress, but it's much more convenient to just have to check one email adress instead of multiple ones...

[Banzai]

I have no problem with using our own e-mailaddresses, but how do we prevent that we all play and send the turn?

[Darkness]

quote:Originally posted by Banzai

I have no problem with using our own e-mailaddresses, but how do we prevent that we all play and send the turn?



If I am not mistaken the turn tracker should record it when a save is sent, right?
So after the first one has played, the second one will see it once he tries to send, right?

[Banzai]

The game has started! [alien]

The Gremlins start on a spot with fresh water and extra food!
Thats always a good thing for Gremlins ;)

http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/banzai/200575232010_Gremlins_001_startingspot.JPG

On top of a gold hill, next to a river, 2 bonus grass, a plains with wheat.
In my opinion this is a good spot.

As moving off the gold hill seems like a bad move, I decide to settle Kingston Falls right here. All the previous teams have settled as well.

http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/banzai/200575232156_Gremlins_001_Kingston_Falls_Founded.J PG

Yes! A cow and wines.
The worker moves to the plains-wheat tile to irrigate.

According to F11 all civs have the same mfg and gnp, so we all start on a gold hill.
Nonetheless I start to research Writing, as we chatted about that.
Writing in 40 turns at max.

The minimap shows our location in the world:

http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/banzai/200575232610_Gremlins_001_minimap.JPG

Game on!

[charge]

[Socrates]

There goes the Roman theme... [blush] Anyway, you did it right, Banzai. Good to settle right on that hill, and good to go irrigate that wheat. I hope our citizens are working in that wheat plain as well, and I hope we're on 100% science. As to what to build, we can decide in a few turns...

[Banzai]

quote:Originally posted by kryszcztov

There goes the Roman theme... [blush] Anyway, you did it right, Banzai. Good to settle right on that hill, and good to go irrigate that wheat. I hope our citizens are working in that wheat plain as well, and I hope we're on 100% science. As to what to build, we can decide in a few turns...


All of the above :)
Kingston Falls is the name of the city where the Gremlins were "having fun". I had to found that city.
All other cities can have Roman names if you want to..

[akots]

Go Romans, go! Kill them all! Rome rules! Patria or muerte! (that is from another place, sorry), OK : Veni, vidi, vici. [dance]

[blush]

A perfect civ for this kind of map. Just need to win the Philo race somehow and the game is in the bag! [confused] Or rush some neighbors with some archers on turn 20! [hammer]

[blush2]

[Banzai]

I've played turn 2.
Started irrigation on the plains-wheat tile, finished in 4.

Team Metal is the only team that did not settle in the first turn.
There is also 1 team with 3 mfg..[hmm]

[Socrates]

Good.

Now I'd like to receive the save as well in my mailbox. I thought Matrix was done with the turn tracker. [hmm]

[Banzai]

All saves are in our team mailbox: teamgremlins_at_yahoo_dot_com

[Darkness]

quote:Originally posted by Banzai


There is also 1 team with 3 mfg..[hmm]



Maybe they've got a cattle on plains?

[Socrates]

So I received the 3900BC turn in the middle of the night, well, I was playing HMM3 (again) and when I finished a game, I was about to go to sleep and saw the turn. [crazyeye] It seems Matrix's turn tracker sent it to my personal address, so from now on we'll all get it that way. Apart from checking stuff (first time I opened this game), I just clicked ENTER. :)

My question : how do we know if someone has played the turn ? Do we need to check the turn tracker first every time ? How about a turn thread just for our team, where we'll all have ONE post, to be edited each time we play a turn (like for the Swimming Pool) ? We could edit ours just before playing : "Now playing turn xxx..." and then edit it again once we have sent it ?

[Darkness]

quote:Originally posted by kryszcztov



My question : how do we know if someone has played the turn ? Do we need to check the turn tracker first every time ?

That seems like the easiest way to do it, IMHO...

quote:Originally posted by kryszcztov



How about a turn thread just for our team, where we'll all have ONE post, to be edited each time we play a turn (like for the Swimming Pool) ? We could edit ours just before playing : "Now playing turn xxx..." and then edit it again once we have sent it ?


Sorry Krys, but I am simply not organized enough to do it that way... [ponder]

[Socrates]

Sorry ME, I always imagine weird things, but that's too complicated indeed... [same smiley as Darkness]

So I suggest that the turn player posted in THIS thread to say "I played and sent, I did this and that." so that the other 2 guys know what was done, what to expect in the future. Inbetween turns everyone can discuss about things, so that we agree about what to do anyway. Since I suppose everyone doesn't want to replay the turns in the exact same way (too tedious and not interesting), the turn player would have to tell the sensitive stuff that occurred and post pics.

What an obvious piece of shit here. [lol]

[Darkness]

quote:Originally posted by kryszcztov



So I suggest that the turn player posted in THIS thread to say "I played and sent, I did this and that." so that the other 2 guys know what was done, what to expect in the future.

That seems like a perfectly functional compromise to me... :)

[Rik Meleet]

This will become a huge thread...

[Socrates]

Turn 4 (3800BC) (but the turn tracker wasn't set up properly) played and sent ! :) Nada to do, but : next turn our irrigation on the wheat plain is completed. Expected growth to size 2 on turn 9 (3550BC). We're #1 (with many other guys ;) ) in shields and gold. Only one team seems to be at 5 gpt.

[Socrates]

Turn 5 (3750BC) played and sent.

Our worker completed the irrigation, so next turn he'll start a road there, OK ? A 1st warrior is expected next turn, so where do we want him to go ? We're a bit north of the equator.

Northwards : to get an immediate view of the surrounding terrain on that hill.
Southwards : to have more terrain to explore and more chance to find someone.
Westwards or eastwards : to follow the river, with one hill in each direction as well.

I'd personally go southwards, because there is probably someone in the southern hemisphere. We can explore elsewhere with another warrior afterwards.

[Darkness]

Re: worker: Fine with me. After that it should chop one of the plains forests on the river (SW or WW of Kingston Falls) and then move on to the cattle...
Exploration 2W to gold hill for view of immediate surroundings, then we can see from there. For example if the lands prove to be extremely rich there, we could gamble on building a settler next (or perhaps after a second warrior)

[Socrates]

Honestly, chopping one forest tile before irrigating the cow will depend on what we'll be buiding at that moment. If it's a warrior, we should skip it, and head for the cow. If we can add the 10 shields to the production box without wasting them, then I'm OK with it. I suppose it can only be a settler then, since a barracks isn't needed, and we lack Pottery. We'll have to make sure that adding 10 shields won't result in a settler built before we reach size 3 too.

As for the exploration, what is our goal ? It has a bit to do with what I said above BTW. We're in no particular hurry to meet neighbours, but we shouldn't neglect it. One important thing to get is Pottery, either by trading or in a goody hut, so I think we should send many warriors out there. Civs with Pottery already in the bag are : Dutch, Sumerians, Aztecs (or am I mistaken ? [hmm] ).

Long term goal : Maybe a mass upgrading will be in order ? Too early to tell, but Rome can easily build barracks in the whole core before going to war. [evil]

[Darkness]

quote:Originally posted by kryszcztov

Honestly, chopping one forest tile before irrigating the cow will depend on what we'll be buiding at that moment. If it's a warrior, we should skip it, and head for the cow. If we can add the 10 shields to the production box without wasting them, then I'm OK with it. I suppose it can only be a settler then, since a barracks isn't needed, and we lack Pottery. We'll have to make sure that adding 10 shields won't result in a settler built before we reach size 3 too.


I indeed meant the chop to add shields to the settler. A second warrior will be long finished before the chop is complete.
My suggestion:
Builds: warrior (which will be complete next turn) -> Warrior (MP/second explorer) -> Settler (Partially chopped).
Worker movement: Road wheat -> move to forest -> chop while building settler.


quote:Originally posted by kryszcztov

Civs with Pottery already in the bag are : Dutch, Sumerians, Aztecs (or am I mistaken ? [hmm] ).


You are correct. We should definately explore, even if it's only to know the lands that will form our core, and if we can meet any of these and obtain pottery, even better!
Contacts will not hurt us, they could however potentially be very helpful.

[Darkness]

quote:Originally posted by kryszcztov

We'll have to make sure that adding 10 shields won't result in a settler built before we reach size 3 too.


If we MM Kingston Falls after cultural expansion to work the wheat (irrigated) and the cattle (unworked) we should have no trouble doing that. That would mean +4fpt and 3spt, so a chop wil be very welcome indeed...

[Banzai]

The question is.. where to build our second city.
My first idea is to settle on top of the other gold hill.
What do you think?

[Darkness]

quote:Originally posted by Banzai

The question is.. where to build our second city.
My first idea is to settle on top of the other gold hill.
What do you think?



Too early to tell, IMHO. That's one of the reasons (if not the most important one) why we should send the scouting warrior towards the gold hill next turn, so that we can see what the lands are like in that area. Then, when the warrior is on the gold hill, we can really decide where exactly to send the first settler.

[Socrates]

Turn 6 (3700BC) is in ! Beam sent it to the gremlins address. The worker is ready to start something else, and the warrior is completed.

I think there is no question about the worker : road the wheat.
I think there is no question about MM : harvest the wheat up to size 2.
Where to send the warrior ? I'm fine with westwards towards the gold hill, but we have more chance to find someone southwards. Maybe with Pottery to trade. The sooner the better.

Banzai ?


EDIT : Sorted out on MSN. ;) The warrior went west, and of course nothing was revealed. I'm curious to enjoy the view on that hill next turn.

[Socrates]

Turn is in ! (turn 7, 3650BC)

The warrior was sent to the gold hill... and we find the sea ! [groucho]

As for domestic issues, only one team so far has reached size 2, namely the Brotherhood of Nod (Dutch). Two other teams are also agricultural, but they play after us in the turn (we're #6, they are #7 and #8), so they'll probably grow on this turn as well (in fact, Team Metal had moved their settler, so it'll be a different story for them). It's just that their IT hasn't been computed yet, or something like that. [hmm] See my comments of the like in the ISDG... Curiously we're #6 in population and commerce in F11. [hmm]

http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/kryszcztov/2005728113617_Superfast-007-3650BC-1.jpg
152.34KB

Turn played and sent.

One decision for next turn : the warrior. I think we should send him southwards now, along the seaside.

[Socrates]

Turn is in ! (turn 8, 3600BC)

I see that Darkness came back yesterday, though he hasn't posted yet. I suggest we waited for him, because Banzai hasn't told us where to send the warrior. :(

The worker has just finished roading the wheat tile but can't move yet, the capital will grow next turn, and there's no point in deciding on our next build yet. We're still #6 in population, but only Kemal&Eldakkar are at size 2.

I want to wait until at least someone else wants to go south, or until Darkness comes back to this thread. Oh, and the governor must be set on production in every cities ! [eek] :(

[Banzai]

The warrior should move south as we discussed earlier on MSN..

[Socrates]

quote:Originally posted by Banzai

The warrior should move south as we discussed earlier on MSN..

Sorry if I forgot that, I couldn't remember your wish...

Turn played and sent. The warrior went south.

http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/kryszcztov/200573121621_Superfast-008-3600BC-1.jpg
153.57KB

For next turn :
- I think there is no doubt that the warrior should go south again.
- Our city will reach size 2, we'll have 7 shields in box if I'm not mistaken (the governor will put the new citizen on a grassland, not a forest). We can build a worker, a settler, a warrior, an archer or a barracks. I think a 2nd warrior is good, and it won't waste a single shield.
- As for the worker, we need to send him towards the cow, so sending him west of the city seems to be the move.

[Socrates]

Turn is in ! (turn 9, 3550BC)
I played and sent it.

The worker moved to the western forest, the warrior moved south. I let the city on warrior, as a quick calculation showed that we'll complete a settler with a chop before reaching size 3 otherwise (even with the cow).

http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/kryszcztov/200582121537_Superfast-009-3550BC-1.jpg
156.05*KB

For next turn :
- Worker : chop the forest, I guess.
- Warrior 1 : south again I'd say, as the borders' expansion will reveal some tiles in the south, and the view from the hill is blocked by those forests.
- Warrior 2 : north-east and east ?

BTW, F11 : we're #2 in population of course, but #3 in production, but #2 in productivity, which means someone is harvesting a forest (MM growth and shields, understandable).

[Socrates]

Turn is in ! (turn 10, 3500BC)

Turn has been played and sent, according to what Darkness and I said on MSN a few days ago, which is what I proposed last turn. Everyone is at size 2 now. We have a new warrior, and the city is harvesting the wheat and the bonus grassland. The MM regarding the settler production seems to be good.

http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/kryszcztov/200586143638_Superfast-010-3500BC-1.jpg
144.6*KB

We find a game forest, and the whale barrier continues... [groucho]

http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/kryszcztov/200586143714_Superfast-010-3500BC-2.jpg
107.87*KB

There is incense in the east ! [thumbsup]

Next turn :
- Warrior 1 : south again ?
- Warrior 2 : maybe south-east, towards the hill ?
The borders will expand, maybe it will hint us where to go.

[Darkness]

quote:Originally posted by kryszcztov


Next turn :
- Warrior 1 : south again ?
- Warrior 2 : maybe south-east, towards the hill ?
The borders will expand, maybe it will hint us where to go.


Seems OK to me, but like you said: Maybe the border expansion will give a hint. So let's wait and see what we get...

[Socrates]

Turn is in ! (turn 11, 3450BC)

The borders have expanded.

http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/kryszcztov/2005810174738_Superfast-011-3450BC-1.jpg
158.22KB

So where do we go ? Maybe warrior 2 should go east instead, because it seems that the hill won't reveal as many tiles as we thought. I'd send warrior 1 south though.

[Darkness]

Turn 11 played

http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/Darkness/2005810232957_turn11.JPG
141.36KB

Warrior 1 went S
Warrior 2 went SE
KF MM'ed to forest for extra shield. Growth still in 4 turns, if MM'ed correctly next turn!

Next turn

Warrior 1 should go S again
Warrior 2 should go S, to the hill
KF needs to be MM'ed from the forest to the cattle again, to ensure growth in 3 turns

[Socrates]

Turn is in, played and sent already (turn 12, 3400BC)

I agreed with Darkness, and so Warrior1 went south, and Warrior2 went south too. I put a citizen back on the cow.

http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/kryszcztov/200581719502_Superfast-012-3400BC-1.jpg
117.22KB

http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/kryszcztov/2005817195017_Superfast-012-3400BC-2.jpg
139.76KB

Next turn :
- Warrior1 : south again ?
- Warrior2 : don't know, back home, or on exploration ?
We'll get the 10 shields from chopping.

[Banzai]

Man! you guys are fast!
The turn is already played before I see it is in :D
I agree with warrior 1 - futher south
Warrior 2 can continue scouting if it was up to me. I vote for the mountain east.
The tile north-east of warrior 2 looks like a nice spot for a city.

[Socrates]

quote:Originally posted by Banzai

Man! you guys are fast!
The turn is already played before I see it is in :D

This game is going so slow despite the initial intentions that I have enough waiting. So this time I saw it coming into my mailbox, and decided to play the turn immediately, as everything seemed decided. :)

I would also send the warrior on exploration, but I don't know in fact, and this is due to the ISDG game. In that game almost everyone voted to send Warrior2 back home, so why would this be different here ? The main reason was security. So I don't know and I'm just asking.

[Darkness]

quote:Originally posted by kryszcztov



I would also send the warrior on exploration, but I don't know in fact, and this is due to the ISDG game. In that game almost everyone voted to send Warrior2 back home, so why would this be different here ? The main reason was security. So I don't know and I'm just asking.


The difference is the date (and the fact that we haven't seen any barbs yet)...

Let him explore a bit more. To the mountain 2E seems fine to me.

[Socrates]

Turn is in, played and sent.

http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/kryszcztov/2005819143530_Superfast-013-3350BC-1.jpg
109.24*KB

http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/kryszcztov/2005819143544_Superfast-013-3350BC-2.jpg
95.29*KB

And the worker has chopped the forest.

Next turn :
- Warrior1 : south again ?
- Warrior2 : east again ?
- Worker : road or go to the cow ? I'd choose "go to the cow" if we were to build another worker very soon to improve the tiles of the northern bank.

BTW, if you want to rename our warriors, go ahead, I don't know the theme. ;)

[Banzai]

Well.. we could rename one of them to 'Stripe'.
I think it was the boss of the evil ones :)
http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/banzai/2005819155339_gremlins.jpg

[Darkness]

First off, sorry for not discussing this, but I wanted to get the game running again and I had a feeling you would agree to this!


Big News

We meet the CivantAlliance!!!

http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/Darkness/200582520113_14 meet civant.JPG
113.5KB

We have an opportunity here: They have pottery, we have warrior code.
I sent this to them:
quote:
Greetings friendly neighbours,

A chance occurrance has allowed our two great tribes to spot eachothers entrepid explorers on distant mountains. The Gremlins are overjoyed to discover they are not alone in this world and would like to engage in friendly conversation regarding the futures of our empires. We must state that we are a friendly nation, with no ill will towards any other inhabitants and we seek only cooperation and mutually beneficial trade...


OK, enough of the elaborate talk... ;)

We find ourselves with an opportunity here. Both of us start with alphabet, but you've got pottery and we've got warrior code. Let's trade it straight-up, and get a good start on what hopefully will be a friendly and cooperative existance in this game.
We could make this trade, and then maybe see if we can take this a bit further?

Greetings,

Darkness (on behalf of the Gremlin nation)

Other pictures:

http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/Darkness/200582520354_14 KF.JPG
144.15KB

http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/Darkness/200582520414_14 warrior1.JPG
131.59KB

[Socrates]

Cool ! I completely agree with the trade idea, we have a tech costing more, but Pottery is really helpful, so that's fair.

Otherwise, I'd like to know more about this turn :
- Was the save sent to the team address ?
- Have you already forwarded the turn ?
- What MM did you do ?

Thanks to keep it more detailed, as I always do. :)

[Darkness]

quote:Originally posted by kryszcztov

Otherwise, I'd like to know more about this turn :
- Was the save sent to the team address ?


No, KR sent it to my email adress in response to the PM I sent him.

quote:Originally posted by kryszcztov

- Have you already forwarded the turn ?


Yes, see http://www.straland.com/turntracker/16pbem.php ;)

quote:Originally posted by kryszcztov


- What MM did you do ?


None, KF needed 4 food to grow next turns, so I no MM was needed.

quote:Originally posted by kryszcztov

Thanks to keep it more detailed, as I always do. :)


I thought the two extra pictures were detail enogh, but ask anything you want... :)

[Rik Meleet]

And there are spices visible ;)

[Socrates]

OK Darkness. :) Could you send me the turn you got from KR please ? Just for checking purpose...

Also I was thinking : we need to set up a proper channel for diplomacy, as it will become quite messy with so many teams. I suggest we used the team address for everything regarding foreign affairs. I'm thinking of adding it to my Outlook program as well, like for the ISDG.

[Banzai]

Great news man!
I completely agree with the trade! good job :)

when do we attack? ;)

[Darkness]

Whomp just contacted me by PM. They appear to be interested in dealing with us as well (maybe even longterm?).
I've proposed to arrange chat about this so we can streamline the discussion. Any preference to when and what time (if they agree of course)?

[Socrates]

Now ! ;)

But really, when you want and see me online, just call me ! I'm often connected on MSN, but these days I started to play Railroad Tycoon 3, so I'm quiting with MSN a bit...

[Darkness]

quote:Originally posted by kryszcztov

Now ! ;)


No, can't do... GOing to bed in a few minutes (work again tomorrow).

But I really was talking about arranging a chat with Markstar, Whomp, Banzai, you and me... ;) (with a seperate "Gremlins only" window on the side of course).

[Darkness]

PMing with whomp has resulted in a Gremlins-Civant Alliance chat on august 26th (today ;)) at 18:00 CET.
I hope you guys can make it, but if you can't, then pleasepost your suggestions, etc. and then I'll hold the fort. :)

[Socrates]

OK, I think I'll be there. And yes, I was talking about the same kind of meeting on MSN, I was just stating that I'm often connected and you guys just have to call me. :)

[Banzai]

I'll try to be there! Depends on how long I have to stay at work, but most of the time 18:00 CET should be possible.

[Darkness]

Excellent!

[Darkness]

Our chat with the Civant Alliance

quote:
Markstar zegt:
Anyways, let's start, I think Whomp and I pretty much agree on how to proceed
Darkness zegt:
fine by me
krys van europa zegt:
k
Markstar zegt:
So we have a permanent alliance on the table, is that correct?
krys van europa zegt:
yeah, for the whole game, if we fail, i take a train and kill you
Markstar zegt:
Hehe, sounds good.
Darkness zegt:
we'll need to work on the details, but we have all seen the ISDG, so we all realize how powerful a very early alliance can be
Markstar zegt:
Well, we both started with Alphabet which makes the whole situation a bit more complicated (or easy?)
Markstar zegt:
EXACTLY OUR POINT AS WELL!
Darkness zegt:
"unfortunate?"
Darkness zegt:
so we can't trade more than one starting tech
krys van europa zegt:
we have WC
krys van europa zegt:
you have Pottery
Markstar zegt:
hehe, well, it just means we "lost" one (rather expensive) tech
Markstar zegt:
true, so that's good
krys van europa zegt:
what are you researching ?
Markstar zegt:
what do you think?
Markstar zegt:
Writing, of course
krys van europa zegt:

Markstar zegt:
and we will have it first
Darkness zegt:
a straight up trade (like in the email) seems fair and it'll build trust
krys van europa zegt:
sounds tough to search
krys van europa zegt:
i second darkie
Markstar zegt:
yes, but with a (secret) permanent alliance tech trading should not be a big issue
Darkness zegt:
exactly, but you gotta start somewhere
Markstar zegt:
...if we follow the extremely good example set by the CDZ-CGN alliance
Darkness zegt:
which looks very attractive to me
krys van europa zegt:
we are Rome
Markstar zegt:
so agreed on the tech trade. Whomp and I feel that you make the better deal by that, but as I said, in a permanent alliance this will benefit us both
krys van europa zegt:
we're usually a triumvirat, but today we're the 2-headed eagle
Markstar zegt:
"we are Rome" <- what is that supposed to mean?
Markstar zegt:

krys van europa zegt:
well, WC is worth more beakers
Markstar zegt:
true, but Pottery = growth, but let's please not argue about who gains more, it is not important in an alliance and we should avoid bickering about stuff like that.
krys van europa zegt:
the point is that it's fair
Markstar zegt:

Darkness zegt:
if we're going to talk about the bigger picture, I think we should just forget about the beakers issue
Markstar zegt:
anyways, let's focus on the future, what are you guys working one?
Markstar zegt:
-e
Markstar zegt:
yep, my point exactly
krys van europa zegt:
a secret project
krys van europa zegt:
we're researching writing as well
Darkness zegt:
also writing of course
Markstar zegt:
yes, but we will be quicker
krys van europa zegt:
which opens a path for interesting tricks later
krys van europa zegt:
why so ?
Darkness zegt:
true, you're agr/sea, so you've got more beakers
Markstar zegt:
so that means we have to decide on who goes for CoL and who does Phil
Markstar zegt:
why?
krys van europa zegt:
did you start by the sea ?
Markstar zegt:
because we are agricultural
Markstar zegt:
no
krys van europa zegt:
ah yes
krys van europa zegt:
i now remember we're stupid to not take an agr civ
Markstar zegt:
just trust me, there is NO WAY ON EARTH any civ can be quicker
krys van europa zegt:
so we'll get a discount then
Markstar zegt:
hehe, well, but we are only Dutch
Markstar zegt:
discount, for what?
Darkness zegt:
Civant should do COL, IMHO. It's more expensive and you will generate more beakers than anyone else
krys van europa zegt:
writing i guess
Darkness zegt:
we'll do PHIl and give you republic?
krys van europa zegt:
makes sense, darkness
Markstar zegt:
you will get writing for free, of course, in exchange for the techs that you research in the meantime at full spead
Markstar zegt:
if Phil is really less expensive this would make sense, yes
Darkness zegt:
it is a LOT less expensive (half cost or something like that)
krys van europa zegt:
no
Markstar zegt:
mmh, who is the 3rd Civ with Alphabet, Engineer?
Darkness zegt:
Kemal
Darkness zegt:
Brh of Nod
krys van europa zegt:
philo 6, CoL 10
Markstar zegt:
Kemal?
Markstar zegt:
Really???
Markstar zegt:
No
Markstar zegt:
not Sumeria
Darkness zegt:
@Krys: so, 60% is close to 50%
krys van europa zegt:
ok
Darkness zegt:
oops, my bad
Darkness zegt:
checking now
Markstar zegt:
My point is - if it's a really good team we risk losing the Phil race
krys van europa zegt:
we're only 3 ?
Markstar zegt:
"checking now" - hehe, me, too
Darkness zegt:
engineer- France
Markstar zegt:
yep, thought so
krys van europa zegt:
players ?
Darkness zegt:
romeo grahamian and bedhead
Markstar zegt:
well, they have romeo, don't know how good he is
krys van europa zegt:
tough compagny
Markstar zegt:
they might go for it, it all depends on if they beat you to it
krys van europa zegt:
hmmmm
Markstar zegt:
how far away is your second settler?
Darkness zegt:
very soon
krys van europa zegt:
their com trait isn't useful so far, right ?
Markstar zegt:
mmh, k, good sign
krys van europa zegt:
we must try it
Markstar zegt:
well, either way we would have a decent chance of being first to Rep
krys van europa zegt:
they're IND, but what the heck
Darkness zegt:
I agree with Krys. This a great opportunity.
Markstar zegt:
indeed
krys van europa zegt:
if we fail, we just don't get rep for free, but we get phil and col, great techs
Darkness zegt:
how many turns to writing for you?
Markstar zegt:
and since you will be the first ones to start with Phil, you should have a decent headstart
krys van europa zegt:
ok, let's think :
krys van europa zegt:
you're agr+sea, so you get Writing first
krys van europa zegt:
that means that we get to writing faster
krys van europa zegt:
starting philo earlier
krys van europa zegt:
sounds good
krys van europa zegt:
how many turns for writing, markstar ?
Markstar zegt:
hold on...
Markstar zegt:
it's difficult to say since we will get a good boost from our second city
krys van europa zegt:
yeah, like us
Markstar zegt:
which will be soon and on a gold mountain
krys van europa zegt:
but how much on the screen ?
Markstar zegt:
right now 23
Darkness zegt:
same as we have markstar
krys van europa zegt:
hehehehe
krys van europa zegt:
i guess it's because of unhappy citizens
krys van europa zegt:
when you have some roads, it should give you a bonus (agr, i mean)
Markstar zegt:
I think we will be done in about 10 turns, latest
krys van europa zegt:
??
krys van europa zegt:
i don't think so
Darkness zegt:
seems a bit optimistic to me, IMHO
Markstar zegt:
well, you'll see
krys van europa zegt:
anyway, it's given that you'll get it a few turns before us
Markstar zegt:
it's simple, we will grow fast with 2 cities very soon
krys van europa zegt:
so will we est up a deal regarding writing too ?
krys van europa zegt:
*set up
Markstar zegt:
yes, we will definitely have it sooner since we just grow faster than you guys = more commerce
Darkness zegt:
IMHO we would be foolish not to try getting the republic slingshot! This is too good an opportunity to pass up
Markstar zegt:
yes, indeed
krys van europa zegt:
definitely
krys van europa zegt:
waoh, sounds like a big plan already
krys van europa zegt:
1 city each, and yet thinking of Rep for free
Markstar zegt:
hehe
Darkness zegt:
can't achieve anything without ambition...
krys van europa zegt:
this game will be ugly
krys van europa zegt:
8 cdz teams, ouch
krys van europa zegt:
so
krys van europa zegt:
markstar ?
Markstar zegt:
yep
krys van europa zegt:
Q is simple :
Markstar zegt:
the q is: what do you guys research in the meantime?
krys van europa zegt:
will we continue our research on Writing to get a discount, or will we research sthg else for you, and you give us writing ?
krys van europa zegt:
since the rep slingshot seems doable,
krys van europa zegt:
i think you should give us writing ?
Markstar zegt:
I don't get your whole point about "discount"... why??? what???
Markstar zegt:
we give you writing for free, no discussion needed

krys van europa heeft het gesprek verlaten.

Markstar zegt:
but you should not waste your turns any more
Markstar zegt:
where did he go?

krys van europa is aan het gesprek toegevoegd.

Darkness zegt:
you gving us writing is good, but the main q is what tech do we research while you speed to writing
Darkness zegt:
and if that will do us much good
Darkness zegt:
they way I see it:
Darkness zegt:
WC for pottery for trustbuilding
Markstar zegt:
any tech will do us good, but BW might be the most helpfull right now (takes you close to IW and gives us spearmen)
krys van europa zegt:
back :/
Darkness zegt:
you speed to writing at maximum
Darkness zegt:
we'll do BW (exactly)
Markstar zegt:
how long will that take you guys?
krys van europa zegt:
BW is cheap : 3, whereas writing is 5
Markstar zegt:
haeh?
krys van europa zegt:
in the editor
Darkness zegt:
About as long as writing will take you (maybe a bit more), but that;s OK, cause we only want PHIl after you get COL
krys van europa zegt:
it gives you a quick comparison
Darkness zegt:
I'll check in the save
Markstar zegt:
indeed
krys van europa zegt:
and i don't think you'll have 10 beakers for our 6 then
krys van europa zegt:
translation : we'll probably have more than 60% of your beakers
Markstar zegt:
so it's all settled?
Darkness zegt:
Last turn: BW: 13 turns
krys van europa zegt:
woah
krys van europa zegt:
we'll get it before you
Markstar zegt:
how about we REALLY keep this alliance SECRET (except to Rik who should be informed imo)
krys van europa zegt:
sounds quick, no ?
Darkness zegt:
I agree Markstar
krys van europa zegt:
is Rik a sort of a UN ?
Markstar zegt:
how much do you want to bet that we get it before 13 turns (otoh, you'll hopefully be quicker as well)
Markstar zegt:
yep
krys van europa zegt:
then i think we should tell him official treaties, for rep record
Darkness zegt:
Rik will check the saves if a problem arises, but he won't make rulings on them
krys van europa zegt:
markstar : we get writing in 23, bw in 13
Markstar zegt:
and no foreign tech deals without confirmation?
Darkness zegt:
OK
Markstar zegt:
he is online, we might as well just invite him...

Rik is aan het gesprek toegevoegd.

krys van europa zegt:
fire !
Darkness zegt:
done
Rik zegt:
?
Darkness zegt:
hey maarten
krys van europa zegt:
hiya monsieur rik meleet
Markstar zegt:
Hi Rik
krys van europa zegt:
!
Rik zegt:
This looks like an invasion ....
Markstar zegt:
We just wanted to inform you that in the 16+ game, The Civant Alliance and Gremlins formed a permanent alliance
Darkness zegt:
we're setting up an alliance...
Markstar zegt:
...that is supposed to hold until only these 2 civs remain, correct?
krys van europa zegt:
gremlins = banzai, darkness and me ; civant = whomp and markstar
Rik zegt:
I know, Krys.
Markstar zegt:
@Rik: LOL
krys van europa zegt:
well, i know no team
krys van europa zegt:
until i meet a team, i don't care who is playing
Markstar zegt:
so I think that concludes it for tonight - permanent alliance, WC in x-change for pottery, combined Rep effort
Markstar zegt:

Darkness zegt:
one moment please
Rik zegt:
Who's going to attack first ?
Markstar zegt:
turn is played and will be sent asap
Markstar zegt:
attack?
Rik zegt:
Eachother
Markstar zegt:
we havn't even met anybody else yet
Markstar zegt:
hehe
Rik zegt:
Banzai is on one of the teams
Markstar zegt:
we'll see, but I think Gremlins - they are aggressive little bastards.
Markstar zegt:
...The Civant Alliance is much more interested in peace and doesn't multiply when thrown in water...
Rik zegt:
Banzai made a legendary alliance-breaking deal with GRS. )
krys van europa zegt:
i'm gizmo
Markstar zegt:
j/k guys
Markstar zegt:
darkness, what did you want to say/write?
krys van europa zegt:
i think we should make a draft of the treaty
krys van europa zegt:
a writing effort, so that all is clear for us
Darkness zegt:
what Krys just said (formal treaty)
Markstar zegt:
sounds good, I don't have time tonight
krys van europa zegt:
good
krys van europa zegt:
i like written treaties
Darkness zegt:
don't have to be tonight!
Markstar zegt:
but might be able to do it on the weekend. though you might better suited to do so, Krys
krys van europa zegt:
every team has the right to refuse a draft until we're set, ok ?
Darkness zegt:
of course
krys van europa zegt:
i can do it
Markstar zegt:
sound good.
Rik zegt:

krys van europa zegt:
every draft will have to be agreed in my team first of course
Darkness zegt:
excellent, let's just make the first trade, and we'll discus the treaty drafts when they are written
krys van europa zegt:
sure, i think this first trade is a real ok, right ?
Rik zegt:
What's your common goal ?
krys van europa zegt:
victory
krys van europa zegt:
ah no, that's only ours
Markstar zegt:
hehe.
Darkness zegt:
we'll go for BW next turn, and then we'll trade it for writing, followed by a race for republic
Markstar zegt:
yep
krys van europa zegt:
rik, do you want to keep copies of treaties ?
Darkness zegt:
the common goal: getting rid of the six other teams, so we can then figure out who wins of the two of us
Markstar zegt:
PERFECT
Rik zegt:
Krys: if you insist. Just don't expect me to referee the treaty.
Markstar zegt:
can I send the save now?
krys van europa zegt:
let's trade WC for pottery, and then we agree for a real treaty, ok ?
Markstar zegt:
nah, I don't think that's neccessary
Darkness zegt:
Rik: we will not ask you to referee anything. It's just for reference
krys van europa zegt:
send pottery along please
Rik zegt:
Sure, send it to me.
Darkness zegt:
Markstar: sending the save is fine by me
Markstar zegt:
just so Rik know we mean a serious alliance and that breaking this treaty shall be remembered as the most severe backstab throughout CDZ history
Markstar zegt:
done
Darkness zegt:
OK
Markstar zegt:
(via the turn tracker of course)
Rik zegt:
It will have to be a good treaty-breaking to outclass Banzai's
krys van europa zegt:
but will rik be allowed to tell every known team that a team broke a treaty ?
krys van europa zegt:
lol
Darkness zegt:
@Krys: yes
krys van europa zegt:
only if teams are known !
krys van europa zegt:
like in SP
Rik zegt:
So I am an AI ??
Markstar zegt:
anyways, sorry to rush this now, but are we done for tonight?
Darkness zegt:
lol
krys van europa zegt:
if we rape Civant now, no other team should know it ever ?
krys van europa zegt:
yup, think so
Markstar zegt:
well, every team should know at the end when the game is over
Darkness zegt:
that's AI civ, we are humans, so it don't work that way IMHO
krys van europa zegt:
yeah darkie, i think you're right
Rik zegt:
If you kill CiVant before they meet someone; than noone will ever know (till the game is over)
krys van europa zegt:
anyway
Darkness zegt:
I agree with Markstar and Rik
krys van europa zegt:
ok Rik !
Markstar zegt:
alright, nice talking to you guys,
@Rik: thanks for witnessing this.
krys van europa zegt:
so if rape Civant, we must rush to kill them
Darkness zegt:
OK thanks guys.
krys van europa zegt:
see you markstar !
Darkness zegt:
time to work on those treaty drafts
Markstar zegt:
see ya guys!!!

Markstar heeft het gesprek verlaten.



And, the Gremlins-only window:

quote:krys van europa zegt:
hiya
Darkness zegt:
hey krys
Darkness zegt:
how are you
krys van europa zegt:
already talking to sander ?
krys van europa zegt:
not bad
Darkness zegt:
Yeah, talking to him right now
krys van europa zegt:
gone !
Darkness zegt:
he had a last minute invite for diner, so he just stopped by to say he regrets he can't be here today.
Darkness zegt:
just you and me for the chat
krys van europa zegt:
oh i see :/
Darkness zegt:
Let's use this window for Gremlins only chatting OK?
krys van europa zegt:
friends + food is always better
krys van europa zegt:
sure
Darkness zegt:
definately
krys van europa zegt:
who is civant btw ?
Darkness zegt:
the players? or the civ?
Darkness zegt:
civ=dutch
Darkness zegt:
players: Markstar and whomp
krys van europa zegt:
ok i can see that in the thread
krys van europa zegt:
i don't have whomp's msn, so i'm gonna add him
Darkness zegt:
I see markstar online. I'll start a converation with you and him don't have whomps msn either (not in his cdz profile)
krys van europa zegt:
so
krys van europa zegt:
dutch = pot and alpha, like for cbr
krys van europa zegt:
us = what already ?
krys van europa zegt:
rome lol
Darkness zegt:
wc and alph
krys van europa zegt:
ok
krys van europa zegt:
so it's straight forward
Darkness zegt:
yeah
krys van europa zegt:
like i said, WC is worth much in beakers, but pottery is very useful and we need it badly
krys van europa zegt:
if we have it now, that's a good timing
Darkness zegt:
exactly!
Darkness zegt:
and after we build some trust with that trade, we can start thinking about other cooperation
krys van europa zegt:
a bit early, but we'll see
Darkness zegt:
I said thinking (nothing conclusive)
krys van europa zegt:
ok
krys van europa zegt:
we help each other out by researching writing
krys van europa zegt:
if they get it 1st, we get a discount
Darkness zegt:
or we hoard cash and they get writing first, and they give it to us. the we can take seperate tech paths after that
krys van europa zegt:
what do you mean ?
krys van europa zegt:
why would they give it to us ?
Darkness zegt:
COL and PHIL simultaneously?
krys van europa zegt:
hum
krys van europa zegt:
we tell ?
Darkness zegt:
yes.
krys van europa zegt:
how many for us ?
Darkness zegt:
checking
Darkness zegt:
23
krys van europa zegt:
do we ask if he wants to give us writing asap ?
krys van europa zegt:
problem : we have invested in writing already
Darkness zegt:
true, but can't help that now
krys van europa zegt:
is it fair if he gives us writing for free ?
Darkness zegt:
depends on how many turns he still has to go. if we can get a cheaper tech in that time we can give them that, right?
krys van europa zegt:
sure
krys van europa zegt:
if we had known :/
krys van europa zegt:
grrr
Darkness zegt:
second city? On the gold hill or NW of the wheat?
krys van europa zegt:
23 like us !!
krys van europa zegt:
sorry ?
Darkness zegt:

Darkness zegt:
seems were not that bad...
Darkness zegt:
second city on the gold hill would pretty much boost our beaker output by 75%
Darkness zegt:
near wheat would increase growth a huge lot
krys van europa zegt:
it depends if he gives writing to us
krys van europa zegt:
in which case we don't care for a quick boost in gold
Darkness zegt:
exactly!
krys van europa zegt:
we should invest in food instead
Darkness zegt:
agreed
krys van europa zegt:
and come back to the gold hill when we start philo
krys van europa zegt:
3rd city or so
Darkness zegt:
yes, but do we do a granary before the second city
Darkness zegt:
third I mean
krys van europa zegt:
we'll see
krys van europa zegt:
we had no choice so far
krys van europa zegt:
anyway i still think that a 2nd city before a granny is a must when you have food bouns around
krys van europa zegt:
*bonus
krys van europa zegt:
is there more than 1 site with a food bonus ?
Darkness zegt:
there's a game 3 S of the cow
krys van europa zegt:
true
krys van europa zegt:
sounds good, what i write ?
Darkness zegt:
better play it slightly less direct
Darkness zegt:
don't take this wrong, but let me talk to MS for a moment, OK?
krys van europa zegt:
mkay
krys van europa zegt:
shit i'm out
krys van europa zegt:
i think we're the 1st one they met
krys van europa zegt:
otherwise they could have set up a rep slingshot with anyone, alpha or not
Darkness zegt:
yes
krys van europa zegt:
wait
krys van europa zegt:
last line ?
Darkness zegt:
seems fine to me
Darkness zegt:
true alliance
krys van europa zegt:
so we have to tell them if we want to trade with another team ?
Darkness zegt:
Only if we make the trade
Darkness zegt:
Krys: when does the alliance end
krys van europa zegt:
we should be clearer imo
krys van europa zegt:
yup, good Q
Darkness zegt:
if only us and civant remain?
krys van europa zegt:
no
krys van europa zegt:
definitely not
Darkness zegt:
what other time then
Darkness zegt:
I think it's actually good
Darkness zegt:
Rome is better for warring so we will be bigger and COM is Better than AGR in the space race
krys van europa zegt:
it means we're tied to that alliance for the whole game !!
krys van europa zegt:
we can't only count on our skills
Darkness zegt:
worked fine for CDZ-CGN, so why not for us
krys van europa zegt:
cause in that game, we just had to kill 2 civs
krys van europa zegt:
here there is only 1 winner, and 7 to kill
Darkness zegt:
don't have to kill Civant, just get a vic condition quicker
krys van europa zegt:
shall we write a treaty in good form ?
Darkness zegt:
yes
krys van europa zegt:
like culture ?
krys van europa zegt:
pbem is about conquest mostly
Darkness zegt:
Going for a culture win while eliminating 6 other would not be smart IMHO
Darkness zegt:
Space race seems the best bet
krys van europa zegt:
space ?
krys van europa zegt:
never saw it in a pbem !
Darkness zegt:
definately!\
krys van europa zegt:
i thought of it in my game vs thecat, but she's gone
Darkness zegt:
It's what I would have done in Banzai's place instead of ROP raping GRS
krys van europa zegt:
which game was that ?
Darkness zegt:
the one with Rome and matrix (Fab4)
krys van europa zegt:
i'm gonna make a draft right now
krys van europa zegt:
i'll post it in our thread for approval
Darkness zegt:
Excellent!
Darkness zegt:
going to have dinner now
krys van europa zegt:
ok
Darkness zegt:
Bye



So now we'll start drafting treaties.... :)

[Socrates]

Good for a reference and for Banzai. But damn, those pages are starting to look like skyscrapers. [mischief] Here is a first draft, I think it covers everything we talked about, but feel free to add/remove/change what you want, we'll only send it to them once we all agree. One thing to note : Markstar wanted a permanent alliance, until all the other teams are gone, but Darkness and I found it a bit quick to sign. So I chose Republic as a deadline, since all the other points are done when Republic is known and shared.


*** PEACE TREATY BETWEEN THE GREMLINS AND THE CIVANT ALLIANCE *** (FIRST DRAFT)

1. Peace until Republic is known by both teams.
2. Civant Alliance gives Pottery, Gremlins give Warrior Code.
3. Civant Alliance continues to research Writing and gives it upon discovery.
4. Gremlins stop researching Writing, start on Bronze Working, and give it upon discovery.
5. Civant Alliance then researches Code of Laws, and gives it upon discovery.
6. Gremlins then research Philosophy, discover it only after Code of Laws is shared, choose Republic as a free tech if possible, and give both techs upon discovery.


I'm in favour of extending it a bit more, but please, no random date. Or we just state that we can extend the treaty afterwards, when we both agree ? And what about a point like "10-turn notification before peace deal expires" ? It could go along this :
a. peace until turn x at least
b. deal must end with 10-turn notification from turn (x-10) onwards
c. first strike on end-of-deal turn given to party undergoing end of deal

[Banzai]

Wow!
Great chat and nice treaty!
Is seems we got a lot more than I hoped for.
This does not mean we can forget about defense though.

It seems my reputation is quite good ;)
For the record.. I did _not_ RoP rape Grs! we had no right of passage!
I would never grant another player a RoP unless it is the only option available.

[Darkness]

Krys, I think you misunderstood me.
I would love to have an alliance with Markstar and Whomp until we are the onlytwo civs remaining (if we formulate it like that it is a much more stable relationship, at least for the time being). My only reason for not immediately agreeing was my wish to write down an extended treaty, instead of just a few lines in the chat.

I'll expand on your draft a bit if you don't mind... (maybe tonight, maybe tomorrow)

[Darkness]

OK, just a quick try at this:

Alliance treaty between The Gremlins and the Civant Alliance

The teams agree to:
- be allied until the Gremlins and the Civant Alliance are the only two remaining teams in the game, and to act in cooperation and unison to ensure that they will become the only two remaining teams in the game.
- share all technologies until the Gremlins and the Civant Alliance are the only two remaining teams in the game.
- share luxuries (when possible, due to extra sources) the Gremlins and the Civant Alliance are the only two remaining teams in the game.
- share strategic resources, if needed, (when possible, due to extra sources) the Gremlins and the Civant Alliance are the only two remaining teams in the game.
- give a 10-turn notification before ending the alliance (only possible if the Gremlins and the Civant Alliance are the only two remaining teams in the game).
- grant first strike on end-of-deal turn given to party undergoing end of deal (only possible if the Gremlins and the Civant Alliance are the only two remaining teams in the game).
- Send a copy of this treaty to Rik Meleet, purely for reference purposes.

----------------------------------------------------


Plans for the immediate future:
1. Civant Alliance gives Pottery, Gremlins give Warrior Code.
2. Civant Alliance continues to research Writing and gives it upon discovery.
3. Gremlins stop researching Writing, start on Bronze Working, and give it upon discovery.
3. Civant Alliance researches Code of Laws, immediately after writing, and gives it upon discovery.
6. Gremlins research Philosophy, immediately after receiving writing, and they will discover it only after Code of Laws is shared, choose Republic as a free tech if possible, and give both techs upon discovery.

[Banzai]

Nice draft.
please add the word 'until' "the Gremlins and the ..." in the share lux and share strat resource parts.

[Socrates]

In front of such enthusiasm, I want to raise some points, if you allow me. ;)

- The '10-turn notification' point and the 'first strike' point are weird : we're allowed to cancel this alliance only if we're the only 2 teams left in the game ? But what if it's not in our favour but theirs ? Or just : what if it's good for us to immediately strike after the 6th team is gone, whereas waiting for 10 turns is good for them ? Are we enlightened enough to foresee the consequences at this stage of the game ?

- So you're both keen to ally with the Civant Alliance until the end of the game ? What if we meet another team soon whose possible alliance is better for us ? I mean, I totally agree on the treaty until Republic is in, but then what's happening ? Will we agree to let the Civant Alliance run ahead of us if it happens so ? Because 6 human teams is a very important factor when you talk about diplomacy. Again, do we know enough to realize the consequences at the moment ?

- This to say that we could have a solid alliance until Republic, and then we'll see. By "we'll see", I mean that we have time before Republic to see what's going on in the world to choose the best solution afterwards. This treaty was set up to get Republic for free, and I'm afraid of getting engaged too soon, almost blindly. And I don't see why the Civant Alliance would be reluctant to sign a treaty ending on a certain turn, with the (very likely) possibility to be extended in the meantime. The 'notification' point is there to prevent an immediate attack. ;) Maybe we'd find it good to ally for another 50 turns after Republic, after which we would need to kill them, for eg. have a chance against another stong team on another continent, or whatever.

Well, there is my opinion : too much, too soon. I'd prefer to go step by step, lux and strat resources sharing is fine, but we have time to think about that. Please note it is primary to have a small debate here and not rushing for the first treaty we can sign. I'm almost certain that the Civant Alliance won't be pissed to see a limited alliance, after all, Republic for free is a game breaker and they know it.


[bump] [hmm]

[Darkness]

quote:Originally posted by kryszcztov

In front of such enthusiasm, I want to raise some points, if you allow me. ;)

- The '10-turn notification' point and the 'first strike' point are weird : we're allowed to cancel this alliance only if we're the only 2 teams left in the game ? But what if it's not in our favour but theirs ? Or just : what if it's good for us to immediately strike after the 6th team is gone, whereas waiting for 10 turns is good for them ? Are we enlightened enough to foresee the consequences at this stage of the game ?



It seems logical to me. If only two teams remain, then the reason for this alliance is gone. 10-turns will allow both teams to reposition their forces. This isnt about being advantaged or disadvantaged. It's about a clear and agreed-upon end of the alliance.
We don't need to see the consequences. We will not EVER get a better deal than this.

quote:Originally posted by kryszcztov

- So you're both keen to ally with the Civant Alliance until the end of the game ? What if we meet another team soon whose possible alliance is better for us ? I mean, I totally agree on the treaty until Republic is in, but then what's happening ? Will we agree to let the Civant Alliance run ahead of us if it happens so ? Because 6 human teams is a very important factor when you talk about diplomacy. Again, do we know enough to realize the consequences at the moment ?



I would very much like to have this alliance, yes. The reasoning is simple: I'd rate Markstar the second-best (maybe third-best, but KR seems awfully busy at the moment) player in the game, after Kemal. They (Civant) chose a good civ and they seem to want to cooperate, so this opportunity is just too good to let go.
Maybe they'll grow bigger, maybe we will. Who knows? It's way too early in the game to be worried about that.
Regarding the diplomacy: See new draft at the end of this post.

quote:Originally posted by kryszcztov

- This to say that we could have a solid alliance until Republic, and then we'll see. By "we'll see", I mean that we have time before Republic to see what's going on in the world to choose the best solution afterwards. This treaty was set up to get Republic for free, and I'm afraid of getting engaged too soon, almost blindly. And I don't see why the Civant Alliance would be reluctant to sign a treaty ending on a certain turn, with the (very likely) possibility to be extended in the meantime. The 'notification' point is there to prevent an immediate attack. ;) Maybe we'd find it good to ally for another 50 turns after Republic, after which we would need to kill them, for eg. have a chance against another stong team on another continent, or whatever.


Off course Civant will be hesitant to sign a treaty until republic. Then they'll be asking themselves if they'll get fucked by us after we get republic (we're the ones getting it, remember?). I would be very hesitatnt to sign an alliance until a specific point. The back of my mind would always wonder what they'd have in store for us immediately after. Killing all the others gives us much more time to prepare, than an alliance until republic ever could.

quote:Originally posted by kryszcztov

Well, there is my opinion : too much, too soon. I'd prefer to go step by step, lux and strat resources sharing is fine, but we have time to think about that. Please note it is primary to have a small debate here and not rushing for the first treaty we can sign. I'm almost certain that the Civant Alliance won't be pissed to see a limited alliance, after all, Republic for free is a game breaker and they know it.


[bump] [hmm]


I disagree Krys, IMHO, a longer lasting alliance will be much more stable, without both parties wondering what is just ahead, and having our/and their actions guided by these fears...

New Draft:
Alliance treaty between The Gremlins and the Civant Alliance

The teams agree to:
- be allied until the Gremlins and the Civant Alliance are the only two remaining teams in the game, and to act in cooperation and unison to ensure that they will become the only two remaining teams in the game.
- share all technologies until the Gremlins and the Civant Alliance are the only two remaining teams in the game.
- share luxuries (when possible, due to extra sources) until the Gremlins and the Civant Alliance are the only two remaining teams in the game.
- share strategic resources, if needed, (when possible, due to extra sources) until the Gremlins and the Civant Alliance are the only two remaining teams in the game.
- give a 10-turn notification before ending the alliance (only possible if the Gremlins and the Civant Alliance are the only two remaining teams in the game).
- consult and agree with the other party in the alliance on any deals and diplomacy with the other teams, before meeting with other teams and signing agreements with said other teams.
- grant first strike on end-of-deal turn given to party undergoing end of deal (only possible if the Gremlins and the Civant Alliance are the only two remaining teams in the game).
- send a copy of this treaty to Rik Meleet, purely for reference purposes.


----------------------------------------------------


Plans for the immediate future:
1. Civant Alliance gives Pottery, Gremlins give Warrior Code.
2. Civant Alliance continues to research Writing and gives it upon discovery.
3. Gremlins stop researching Writing, start on Bronze Working, and give it upon discovery.
3. Civant Alliance researches Code of Laws, immediately after writing, and gives it upon discovery.
6. Gremlins research Philosophy, immediately after receiving writing, and they will discover it only after Code of Laws is shared, choose Republic as a free tech if possible, and give both techs upon discovery.

[Socrates]

Well, Darkness, since Banzai and you are so prone to this deal, then I'll passively agree, if you know what I mean. A bit like the Sunnites regarding the Iraqi Constitution Proposal these days. ;)

I have an uneasy feeling regarding diplomacy in a game like Civ. [blush2] :( [cry] I'm always wondering about it, and changing my mind. It is so much simple in Diplomacy the game : you ally and you betray (you fuck) !!! For example, I signed some peace deals for a certain number of turns in other PBEMs at CDZ, with some people who played tons of PBEMs and think this is how it is meant to be done at CDZ. I completely understand your issues about Markstar being a good player, the Dutch being a good civ... Not sure about the Republic isssue, but regarding what was said in the chat, I'm sure Markstar also wants a very long and stable alliance... So it seems we're closing some doors and only following one path. This IS my concern : our general way of playing is already set up before turn 20. I guess we'll see how it turns out at the end of the game, which unfortunately will happen while everybody is sniffing some Civ4 crack. :D

Let's send this draft and ask them if they agree. Go I said. :)

[Darkness]

OK! :)
It looks like Banzai agrees as well (I added his spelling suggestions), so I'll send it in a bit...

[Socrates]

I fear that my concerns won't be totally answered right now, it's why I feel like entering a dark tunnel without knowing what will happen. Anyone got a light ? :D Seriously, we will be tied to this alliance, even if one of the team gets crushed to one city, how will that impact on the game ? And of course our names will be blackened if we betray them ? :( I just want you guys to realize that no other team will be as good friends as the Civant Alliance EVER. I call that a gamble ; is it a good one or a bad one, we can't know, so I hope it is a good one, like you.

Thanks to do the job, Darkness. [goodjob]

[Darkness]

The Civant Alliance response:
quote:Hello!

We really like your Alliance treaty proposal and would like to add just one more point to the list:
...
- provide troups in case one member of the alliance is attacked by another third Civ and asks for help.

I guess we all agree that in order to achieve our goal (to be the only two left standing) we will pick our targets together anyways. But this last point should make it absolutely clear that we stick together and help each other out.

Kind regards
Markstar

Providing troops for helping the other alliance member if needed seems perfectly reasonable to me...

That would make the alliance treaty:

Final? Draft:
Alliance treaty between The Gremlins and the Civant Alliance

The teams agree to:
- be allied until the Gremlins and the Civant Alliance are the only two remaining teams in the game, and to act in cooperation and unison to ensure that they will become the only two remaining teams in the game.
- share all technologies until the Gremlins and the Civant Alliance are the only two remaining teams in the game.
- share luxuries (when possible, due to extra sources) until the Gremlins and the Civant Alliance are the only two remaining teams in the game.
- share strategic resources, if needed, (when possible, due to extra sources) until the Gremlins and the Civant Alliance are the only two remaining teams in the game.
- provide troups in case one member of the alliance is attacked by another third Civ and asks for help.
- give a 10-turn notification before ending the alliance (only possible if the Gremlins and the Civant Alliance are the only two remaining teams in the game).
- consult and agree with the other party in the alliance on any deals and diplomacy with the other teams, before meeting with other teams and signing agreements with said other teams.
- grant first strike on end-of-deal turn given to party undergoing end of deal (only possible if the Gremlins and the Civant Alliance are the only two remaining teams in the game).
- send a copy of this treaty to Rik Meleet, purely for reference purposes.

-------------

I vote "Yes" :)

[Banzai]

Looks good!
One thing though:
What to do with tech sharing if a third civ builds the Great Lib?
Not an isue right now, but maybe in the future.

[Darkness]

quote:Originally posted by Banzai

Looks good!
One thing though:
What to do with tech sharing if a third civ builds the Great Lib?
Not an isue right now, but maybe in the future.



Very good call! This is an issue right now, IMHO...
We should try to make sure we (or Civant) but preferably us, builds it...
Let's keep it in the back of our minds. We could try to build it in one of our early cities (on the gold hill 2W of KF perhaps?)

[Socrates]

I vote YES but you know with what in mind... [mischief] Banzai brings a good question, and I think there will be plenty of them that will raise issues on some points in the treaty. If some issues appear and we can't agree on them despite our initial treaty signed, this will lead to chaos (maybe I'm exagerating). Perhaps we should include something like "further hypothetical issues in contradiction with this treaty should be discussed to prevent misunderstanding" ? Either now or later... Also, another point, the latest one precisely : we have to send troops if the other party is attacked. While I perfectly understand the issue and find it logical regarding the concept of this treaty, I can't help thinking that it is well too vague. At least in a game like Civ. If I were to see that the Civant Alliance will soon be crushed by another team, what's the point in sending help ? Or if they were to be greatly wounded by an attack (imagine that they can't keep their FP city or a precious wonder), we could send 2 knights and pretend it's all we got, whereas sending 10 knights would have been feasible. It would be like "betting on their failure". I can't get this out of my head.

Maybe we should seperate the points in the treaty between the precise, "no-matter-what" ones and the too vague, "need-to-be-discussed-later" ones. What do you think ? Like a reminder to both teams that the latter points are subject to precision but we agree on a general point of view.
In this light, I would label these ones as "too vague" :
- the 1st point, too vague despite being its very purpose ;) ;
- military help, definitely, would need an update everytime we feel like it (new era, new resource, new threat, etc...) ;
- tech trading, some specific issues exist and we would need to agree ahead of the problem.

Some points should also need some clarification right now :
- tech trading : share the techs asap ;
- consult other party regarding external diplomacy : does this mean we have to get the Civant Alliance's agreement to go talking to another team first, or are we allowed to freely talk as long as no deal is signed ?

What do you think of all that ? [hmm]

[Darkness]

quote:Originally posted by kryszcztov


Some points should also need some clarification right now :
- tech trading : share the techs asap ;
- consult other party regarding external diplomacy : does this mean we have to get the Civant Alliance's agreement to go talking to another team first, or are we allowed to freely talk as long as no deal is signed ?

What do you think of all that ? [hmm]


I think trading techs ASAP may not be in our (the alliance's) best interest (especially if someone else builds the Great Library), due to the cost reduction of the traded tech to other known civs.
We can work things out on this issue of a seperate basis for each tech, I think.

I see the diplo thing this way:
- we tell if we have diplo with someone else
- we ask for agreement on any deals
- should be more clear in the treaty (I'll work on that tonight)

[DavidC]

Sorry guys but I saw an ISDG (very small) spoiler in the thread (in your Gremlins only chat) :(
Please watch out !

[Darkness]

Thanks David... :( It's been corrected now...

[Socrates]

quote:Originally posted by DavidC

Sorry guys but I saw an ISDG (very small) spoiler in the thread (in your Gremlins only chat) :(
Please watch out !

Shit, but it's becoming hard to post spoilers with so many changing teams... :( I think there won't be problems when we post messages directly in this thread. As for MSN chatting, I already have to mentally check in my head that Banzai and Darkness are in my ISDG team, and then I feel OK to make references to the ISDG. So the best thing to do would be to NOT post any MSN chatting log in this thread, just a summary. If someone (like Banzai last time) misses a chat session, the others just send it to him by email. We can keep logs on our PCs, and at the end of the game, we can post them if we want.

Also, for the treaty, don't hesitate to take more time, Darkness, after all, this is DA treaty of the game for us, no ?

[Darkness]

How about I sent this message to Markstar and Whomp tonight?:

Hello guys,

We've been discussing your excellent suggestion for a bit, and as a result we came up with a few explanatory extra's for some of the treaty points (new parts bolded)

[u]Alliance treaty between The Gremlins and the Civant Alliance</u>

The teams agree to:
- be allied until the Gremlins and the Civant Alliance are the only two remaining teams in the game, and to act in cooperation and unison to ensure that they will become the only two remaining teams in the game.
- share all technologies until the Gremlins and the Civant Alliance are the only two remaining teams in the game, which does not have to be immediately after discovery (with regards to the Great Library being constructed by a third civ and the reduction of tech costs for other civs). However, both parties will keep eachother up-to-date on their technology levels, telling of new discoveries ASAP. *See footnote*
- share luxuries (when possible, due to extra sources) until the Gremlins and the Civant Alliance are the only two remaining teams in the game.
- share strategic resources, if needed, (when possible, due to extra sources) until the Gremlins and the Civant Alliance are the only two remaining teams in the game.
- provide troups in case one member of the alliance is attacked by another third Civ and asks for help (in which troups is defined as a reasonable amount of force, which should constitute as much as can be spared without compromising the alliance members' own defense).
- give a 10-turn notification before ending the alliance (only possible if the Gremlins and the Civant Alliance are the only two remaining teams in the game).
- consult and agree with the other party in the alliance on any deals and diplomacy with the other teams, before meeting with other teams and signing agreements with said other teams. By which is meant that the teams will tell the other member of the alliance of any discussions with another team, and not signing any deals until agreement on that deal is reached between the members of the alliance.
- grant first strike on end-of-deal turn given to party undergoing end of deal (only possible if the Gremlins and the Civant Alliance are the only two remaining teams in the game).
- send a copy of this treaty to Rik Meleet, purely for reference purposes.

*Footnote*
We'll need to discuss the possible construction of the Great Library, IMHO. If we can make sure one of us builds it, we can protect are (likely) technological advantage. If a third civ builds it we might end up researching for somebody else. What are your thoughts on this?

Darkness

[Socrates]

I agree on this treaty.

I just note 2 mistakes : it's "troops", not "troups". And I don't completely understand the sentence in the footnote (syntax error). Otherwise I find it good and solid. Need to wait for Banzai and then we can send it.

[Socrates]

Turn is in ! (turn 15, 3250BC)

Warrior1 : south again ?
Warrior2 : depends on what Civant Alliance does. We could agree to "share contacts", ie. tell the other team that team X is to found that far away in that direction, no ? (and so we could add this point in the treaty) In this case, Warrior2 going south isn't a bad idea...
The MM isn't difficult : low on shields (settler is at 28/30), high on food and then on gold.

[Darkness]

quote:Originally posted by Darkness

How about I sent this message to Markstar and Whomp tonight?:

Hello guys,

We've been discussing your excellent suggestion for a bit, and as a result we came up with a few explanatory extra's for some of the treaty points (new parts bolded)

[u]Alliance treaty between The Gremlins and the Civant Alliance</u>

The teams agree to:
- be allied until the Gremlins and the Civant Alliance are the only two remaining teams in the game, and to act in cooperation and unison to ensure that they will become the only two remaining teams in the game.
- share all technologies until the Gremlins and the Civant Alliance are the only two remaining teams in the game, which does not have to be immediately after discovery (with regards to the Great Library being constructed by a third civ and the reduction of tech costs for other civs). However, both parties will keep eachother up-to-date on their technology levels, telling of new discoveries ASAP. *See footnote*
- share luxuries (when possible, due to extra sources) until the Gremlins and the Civant Alliance are the only two remaining teams in the game.
- share strategic resources, if needed, (when possible, due to extra sources) until the Gremlins and the Civant Alliance are the only two remaining teams in the game.
- provide troops in case one member of the alliance is attacked by another third Civ and asks for help (in which troops is defined as a reasonable amount of force, which should constitute as much as can be spared without compromising the alliance members' own defense).
- give a 10-turn notification before ending the alliance (only possible if the Gremlins and the Civant Alliance are the only two remaining teams in the game).
- consult and agree with the other party in the alliance on any deals and diplomacy with the other teams, before meeting with other teams and signing agreements with said other teams. By which is meant that the teams will tell the other member of the alliance of any discussions with another team, and not signing any deals until agreement on that deal is reached between the members of the alliance.
- grant first strike on end-of-deal turn given to party undergoing end of deal (only possible if the Gremlins and the Civant Alliance are the only two remaining teams in the game).
- send a copy of this treaty to Rik Meleet, purely for reference purposes.

*Footnote*
We'll need to discuss the possible construction of the Great Library, IMHO. If we can make sure one of us builds it, we can protect our (likely) technological advantage. If a third civ builds it we might end up researching for somebody else. What are your thoughts on this?

Darkness



Corrected spelling in the footnote. Now it should be readable.
Also changed troups -&gt; troops
Sent to Civant 5 minutes ago...

The moves:
- MM is indeed easy
- Warrior1: south
- Warrior2: return to KF. We've gambled long enough with an unprotected capital. It got us thi sopportunity with the Civant Alliance. Now, let's play it safe and start protecting our capital.
- We also need to change our research to Bronze Working!

[Banzai]

I agree with the warrior moves!
Don't forget the lux slider :)

[Banzai]

Something else..
The settler is completed next turn.
We can settle on the gold hill the turn after as the road to the west will be completed next turn too.
Or we can settle next to the floodplains-wheat and incense.

I want them both!
Can we split the settler in 2 and settle both spots?

[Darkness]

quote:Originally posted by Banzai


Or we can settle next to the floodplains-wheat and incense.


That would be my preference. Growth is very important right now, and in that case a floodplains wheat is better than a goldhill.

BTW: Whomp PMed he agrees with the treaty, so all we need now is Markstars agreement. :)


I'll play the save now, ok?

[Darkness]

Turn 15 played

Warrior code &lt;-&gt; pottery deal completed! :)

Warrior1 moved S
Warrior2 moved N (Next 4 turns it should move W, to arrive in KF in 3050BC.

Sliders adjusted to 80% science and 20% luxury
MM: KF works the cow, the wheat and the wines, generating +4fpt, +4spt and a total of 9gpt (7 sci + 2 lux).

Science set to Bronze Working, which will take 13 turns...

Settler next turn! Where should it go?
My choice would be the hill W of the wheat. That would allow for another city on the river with at least decent spacing in between at the tile E of the insence.

The known world:

http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/Darkness/20058312163_15 overview.JPG
103.85KB

[Socrates]

Good, Darkness ! :)

My vote for next turn :
- Warrior1 south again and again and again...
- Warrior2 to Gremlin City. It seems OK to not explore further, given the nature of our alliance and what we expect from techs (nothing from another team before long). We should coordinate our exploration efforts with Civant...
- Settler : I agree with you, settle on the hill by the river next to the wheat flood plains. We don't need more gold at this point, because we'll get Bronze Working before Civant gets Writing without any problem. Maybe we'll even have time to get Ceremonial Burial ? :D
- Gremlin City should start a granary now.

[Darkness]

I just got a PM from Markstar that they agree with the latest draft, so all we have to do now is send it to Rik. We'll figure out the Great Library issue later.

[Rik Meleet]

Treaty received. I'll keep it hidden from peeking eyes.

[Darkness]

quote:Originally posted by Rik Meleet

Treaty received. I'll keep it hidden from peeking eyes.


Thanks Rik! :)

[Socrates]

Turn is in, played and sent. (turn 16, 3200BC)

http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/kryszcztov/200596124421_Superfast-016-3200BC-1.jpg
116.34*KB

Warrior1 went south again of course.

http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/kryszcztov/200596124446_Superfast-016-3200BC-2.jpg
157.14*KB

Warrior2 went west, so as to meet the settler, en route to that hill.

Lux set back to 0%, and the citizen is harvesting the wheat.


Next turn :
- Warrior1 : south again ?
- Warrior2 : west again ?
- Worker : to the cow ?
- Settler : east again ?
- MM : wheat ?

Moderator action: Uhm, Krys, didn't you check the turntracker before you played? I already played and sent last night. I didn't post in this thread 'cause CDZ's forums were down for me around midnight and I went to bed. But don't worry, Civant had already played the turn and sent it on before they got your save, so there should not be a problem. I sent Markstar and Whomp a PM to advise them of this.
BTW: I played just like you did. [goodjob]

[Socrates]

Ahem... [blush2] :D Somehow I checked the turn tracker, and didn't see "Gremlins" on the 1st line, so I went ahead and played. I knew the save had arrived last night, but wanted to wait for you to be available, and thought I could just wait for today for that, which I even didn't, since I played before posting. [hmm] Sorry again.

[Darkness]

quote:Originally posted by kryszcztov

Ahem... [blush2] :D Somehow I checked the turn tracker, and didn't see "Gremlins" on the 1st line, so I went ahead and played. I knew the save had arrived last night, but wanted to wait for you to be available, and thought I could just wait for today for that, which I even didn't, since I played before posting. [hmm] Sorry again.


Doesn't matter. The game is already at team Metal, so it's still moving. :)

[Socrates]

Turn is in ! (turn 17, 3150BC)

So I told my options last turn. Darkness, do you agree with that ?

[Darkness]

Turn 17 played and sent

quote:Originally posted by kryszcztov


- Warrior1 : south again
- Warrior2 : west again
- Worker : to the cow
- Settler : east again
- MM : wheat



Made these moves, nothing to be seen...

[Socrates]

You should post some pics, man. So that we can decide what to do during the IT, and so that someone can play without asking the others. Except if a sudden event happens of course. :)

[Darkness]

Next turn is easy... ;)

Warrior1: S
Warrior2: W
Settler: S
Worker: irrigate

No MM

I'll try to remember to get some pictures next time... :)

[Socrates]

Turn is in, played and sent ! (turn 18, 3100BC)

Did as planned.

http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/kryszcztov/2005923111338_Superfast-018-3100BC-1.jpg
107.51KB

http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/kryszcztov/2005923111355_Superfast-018-3100BC-2.jpg
110.17KB


Next turn :
- Warrior1 : south again ?
- Warrior2 : west again ?
- Settler : found city : name ?
- MM : both wheats ?

[Darkness]

quote:Originally posted by kryszcztov



Next turn :
- Warrior1 : south again ?
- Warrior2 : west again ?
- Settler : found city : name ?
- MM : both wheats ?


Seems OK to me, but we may consider sending Warrior1 SE, to the hill. Now we're only seeing the coast, and IMHO the landmass itself is more interesting.

Cityname?
How about "Stripe" Wasn't that one of the evil Gremlins? Maybe Banzai, our resident Gremlin expert has ideas?

[Banzai]

Stripe is fine with me :)

[Socrates]

Turn is in ! (turn 19, 3050BC)

The turn opens with Metal Head's face on the screen, proposing us Bronze Working (unaccepted). That's Team Metal ! :) They are the Aztecs (mil & agr, start with Pottery & Warrior Code), played by Ville and bathsheba666. We're still up Alphabet on them. We encountered them in the south :

http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/kryszcztov/200592994559_Superfast-019-3050BC-1.jpg
84.66KB

Given our alliance treaty with Civant, we should carefully think of what to do with Metal. Should we report that encounter to Civant immediately (is it OK per the rules ?) ? We can trade Alpha for Bronze, and then share Bronze with Civant, but is it better no matter what ?

[Banzai]

w00t!! another civ :)
I'm a bit worried for their UU though.. If they want to make good use of it they might be going for their next door neighbour.
Lets send them a warm greeting :)

We should tell Civant about this because when we want to make a trade agreement we have to tell them anyway.
We are not obliged to tell them where we met though ;)

A one on one trade alpha - bronze does not look fair to me, but we can start to negotiate..

[Socrates]

Turn played and sent.

http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/kryszcztov/200592922240_Superfast-019-3050BC-2.jpg
99.97KB

Warrior1 on his long journey to the south...

http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/kryszcztov/2005929222415_Superfast-019-3050BC-3.jpg
146.58KB

Stripe was founded ! Warrior2 back to capital city.

http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/kryszcztov/2005929222426_Superfast-019-3050BC-4.jpg
58.74KB

Civant founded their 2nd city last turn, Metal are late.


Next turn :
- Warrior1 : south ?
- Warrior2 : nada ?
- MM : Kingston Falls on a cow diet, Stripe on a wheat diet ?
- Continue granary in KF (we'll be at 8 shields next turn) ?
- Diplo : Need to send greetings to Metal, and set up a meeting. Need to tell Civant about Metal.

[Socrates]

I sent this by PM to Ville and bathsheba666 (Metal) :

"Hi Metal, this is the Gremlins from the Superfast game. We welcome you as friends, and would like to meet you on MSN someday. We see you have a tech to trade (maybe more ?), and you already know we have at least one as well. Tell us your preferences for an MSN meeting, or maybe just a plain email negociation.

krys, on behalf of the Gremlins team (also Darkness and Banzai)"

And this by PM to Markstar and Whomp (Civant) :

"Hi Civant.

We have met someone in the Superfast game, we met Team Metal (Ville and bathsheba666). Just to let you know. If it's per the rules, we'll let you know about our negociations with them. Maybe you want to say something about it ?

BTW, what is your one email address for your team (for messages...) ?

krys, on behalf of the Gremlins"

[Socrates]

Turn is in ! (turn 20, 3000BC)

In the meantime I got this by PM :

Whomp :
quote:Hello Gremlin Krys,
That is very good news. We would trust you in dealing with them in a way you see fit. If they are friendly that is good and something we can both work with. If they are puffing their chest then they will have problems with both of us.

Here is our team email-address: civantalliance@gmx.net


Markstar :
quote:Hi Gremlins!

Thanks for the info!!!

Don't have much time right now so I'll just give you our official eMail address for now:

civantallicance_AT_gmx.net (the same one as used for the turn tracker).

Kind regards
Markstar

There is no unit to be spotted on the map...

BTW, no sign of Team Metal. Ville read my PM but nothing more.

[Socrates]

Turn played and sent.

Just as I started to wonder about going southwards again (we have met Team Metal there)...

http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/kryszcztov/2005102234448_Superfast-020-3000BC-1.jpg
102.41KB

We meet the Milfhunters !!! [thumbsup] We'll send them a greetings email next turn, when Warrior1 gets next to their borders.

KF will build a granary. KF is at +4 fpt, like Stripe, but will get to +5 fpt next turn. :)


Next turn :
- Warrior1 south again ?
- Warrior2 in KF until further notice from now on ?

[Banzai]

Awesome! Lets hope we can trade with the Milfs :)

The milfhunters have a gold hill exactly where we have one.
The land could be very similar.
As we met Civant east from our location Team Metal could be east from the Milfhunters.
I vote for warrior 1 to go east and try to find Metalland.

Banzai!

[Darkness]

Back again... :)

quote:Originally posted by Banzai

Awesome! Lets hope we can trade with the Milfs :)

The milfhunters have a gold hill exactly where we have one.
The land could be very similar.
As we met Civant east from our location Team Metal could be east from the Milfhunters.
I vote for warrior 1 to go east and try to find Metalland.

Banzai!


Yes, the land seems strikingly similar for all teams, and the straight, rigid coastline might indicate that Rik made a map in wich all teams have almost exactly the same surrounding...

[Rik Meleet]

There seems to be a bonus-resource near the Milfhunters' goldhill, and not in the Gremlin homelands. Still think the "surrounding" are "almost exactly the same" ?

[Socrates]

quote:Originally posted by Rik Meleet

There seems to be a bonus-resource near the Milfhunters' goldhill, and not in the Gremlin homelands. Still think the "surrounding" are "almost exactly the same" ?

I had seen it, but found there was no point in writing a post for that only, but now that you're telling this, I think it was worth writing a post to tell you all that I knew there was a sugar tile there. [crazyeye]

[digger760]

FYI - Grs is also in Team-Metal, he joined after you started. (Markstars list needs to be updated in the Oppenent Finding Forum)

[Darkness]

@Rik: Maybe "almost exactly the same" (which also seems impossible, language-wise) wasn't the correct term.
"Very much resembling eachother" might be a better way of saying this?

[Rik Meleet]

or: "Balanced" ??

Anyway; you'll learn soon enough if your assumption is correct or not.

[Socrates]

Indeed grs is part of Team Metal and he sent me this :

quote:Hi krys,

on behalf of Team Metal I ask you if you would like to trade techs with us.
We can offer Bronze Working to you, what will you offer in return?

Christian
grs

I think we should just reply that Bronze Working doesn't interest us... or that we are annoyed to always choose the wrong techs, lol.

[Darkness]

quote:Originally posted by kryszcztov

Indeed grs is part of Team Metal and he sent me this :

quote:Hi krys,

on behalf of Team Metal I ask you if you would like to trade techs with us.
We can offer Bronze Working to you, what will you offer in return?

Christian
grs

I think we should just reply that Bronze Working doesn't interest us... or that we are annoyed to always choose the wrong techs, lol.


That it doesn't interest us seems like a fine response, but maybe we should dress it up a bit nicer and give some indication that we are open to other trades in the future?

[Socrates]

Turn is in (turn 21, 2950BC), played and sent.

http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/kryszcztov/2005101002552_Superfast-021-2950BC-1.jpg
98.1*KB

Warrior1 went south.

http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/kryszcztov/2005101002619_Superfast-021-2950BC-2.jpg
146.92*KB

Our 2 cities.


Next turn :
- Warrior1 : south again ?
- Worker : road on cow ?

[Socrates]

Drafts :

quote:Hello Team Metal !

We're unfortunately not interested in getting Bronze Working from you. But we are open to any future trade, and may come back to you, should the opportunity arise.

krys, team Gremlins

quote:Hello Team Milfhunters !

A warrior of ours has travelled through the open land, and has found your territory. We warmly greet you, and hope we can come to an agreement soon. We know you have Masonry, that we don't have yet. Maybe this could open the road to a trade ?

krys, team Gremlins

[Darkness]

I agree with both the moves and the drafts! [goodjob]

[Socrates]

Messages sent to grs (Metal) and Beam (Milfunters) by PM.

I'd like to set up messages by mail now. We have an email address, but I rarely check it. I tried to set it up on my Outlook Express application, but it doesn't work. If someone playing here or lurking can help me someday on MSN...

[Socrates]

Answer from Beam :

quote:He krys and fellow Gremlins,

Good to see you around! May it be the start of mutually beneficial cooperation.

We know you have Alpha and we don't.

No team email address, feel free to use KRs and my normail e-mail.

Regards,

Beam

PS,

Did you send this PM to KR as well?

No, I didn't. [blush2] Tired of these diplo multi-recipient messages... Anyone knows a way to make our team email address redirect the messages to our 3 addresses ?

I don't know if they want this to be done, but our Alpha for their Masonry sounds like a really good deal, knowing how Alpha got devalued (Metal, Civant and Gremlins know it). I wonder why Metal don't trade their Alpha for the Milfhunters' Masonry. [???] Let's do something, ok ?

Draft (to be sent to both email addresses this time (what is KR's email address ?)) :

quote:Hello Milfhunters !

Sorry, we just sent it to Beam last time.

Our Alphabet for your Masonry seems to be a good deal, would you agree with that ?

Also, it would be nice to see your milfhunters' faces on MSN for a chat, to see if we can agree to a peace treaty or something which doesn't include WMDs at least...

Team Gremlins

We should also tell Civant about it.

quote:Hi Civant !

Another civ for friends : Milfhunters (Beam and KingReno) ! We'll let you know about possible deals.

Please tell us when you meet them too.

Team Gremlins

Also, another message for Team Metal, since we're not at peace with them, and they might have a Jaguar running towards us at the moment. [blush2] Could be interesting.

quote:Hello Team Metal !

Although we declined your offer, we think it would be nice to see you in a chat on MSN, to discuss about a possible peace deal. What about it ?

Team Gremlins

Last but not least, should we see with Civant what kind of peace deals we should make (us, or them in the future) ?

[Darkness]

[goodjob]

I agree with all points, except I think we need to talk to Civant before committing to any deals. To streamline planning.
Maybe we could indicate the possible deal with the Milfhunters in the message to civant and ask to meet on MSN?

[Socrates]

I sent the 3 messages, like this :

quote:Hello Milfhunters !

Sorry, we just sent it to Beam last time. What is KingReno's email address for Civ ? Wouldn't a team email address for both do the trick ?

Our Alphabet for your Masonry seems to be a good deal, would you agree with that ?

Also, it would be nice to see your milfhunters' faces on MSN for a chat, to see if we can agree to a peace treaty or something which doesn't include WMDs at least...

Team Gremlins

quote:Hi Civant !

Another civ for friends : Milfhunters (Beam and KingReno) ! We'll let you know about possible deals. We can trade Alphabet for their Masonry, but they'd need to agree too. Would that suit you, Masonry ? ;)

Please tell us when you meet them too and Team Metal.

Team Gremlins

quote:Hello Team Metal !

Although we declined your offer, we think it would be nice to see you in a chat on MSN, to discuss about a possible peace deal. What about it ?

Team Gremlins

[Socrates]

Turn is in ! (turn 22, 2900BC)

The Milfhunters sent us Masonry not accepted. I'd like to have a word about it with Civant. I'm all for sending Alphabet back. Please, if anyone can contact Civant (Markstar or Whomp), and ask them if they'd agree with that deal, so that we can proceed with the turn.


EDIT : Sent this to Markstar and Whomp by PM :

quote:Hi guys !

We could possibly trade our Alphabet for the Milfhunters' Masonry, which would be given to you thereafter of course. Do you agree with this trade ? We'll see if Metal own it, in which case there's no point in not giving it to you too. Otherwise we might want to delay it at max, in order to not drop the cost even more. What about it ?

krys of Gremlins

[Banzai]

ok!!
Well.. just place alpha against masonry in the trade screen and hit accept..
If we can't have a chat that will clarify our wish :)
I doubt Civant will have problems with that.

[Socrates]

Turn played and sent.

http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/kryszcztov/20051017133352_Superfast-022-2900BC-1.jpg
117.79KB

http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/kryszcztov/2005101713348_Superfast-022-2900BC-2.jpg
131KB

Next turn :
- Warrior1 : south ? I think there's no point in declaring war. ;)
- That's all ! [eek]

Just been chatting with Markstar. Here is the log, with the parts about the ISDG deleted this time.

quote:krys van europa dit :
hey
Markstar dit :
I am currently idle.
Markstar dit :
hi
Markstar dit :
what's up?
krys van europa dit :
yeah
krys van europa dit :
i got your PM
krys van europa dit :
i wanted to say that imo it is a nice straight deal to start with,
krys van europa dit :
and alphabet is shared by 3 i think already
krys van europa dit :
nope, only by us
krys van europa dit :
but masonry should be a monopoly
Markstar dit :
mmh, alright
krys van europa dit :
dunno, i think it'd be difficult to get some gpt
Markstar dit :
and since we are already ahead on writing it shouldn't be a problem
Markstar dit :
you can try.
do they know you know us?
krys van europa dit :
no
krys van europa dit :
nor metal
Markstar dit :

Markstar dit :
cool.
any indication they know each other?
krys van europa dit :
well, we met metal just before seeing milf's lands, so both know we know the other one i guess
Markstar dit :
ahh, o.k.
krys van europa dit :
it is very likely that they know eacj other too
Markstar dit :
where are they anyways?
krys van europa dit :
i think we met a jaguar 2 turns max before spotting milf's border
Markstar dit :
we have only one warrior scouting right now.
krys van europa dit :
milf is right south of us
Markstar dit :
(don't want to be caught with pants down)
Markstar dit :
cool
krys van europa dit :
i have the feelings metal is right south of you
krys van europa dit :
and you right east of us
Markstar dit :
yep, me, too
krys van europa dit :
which leads me to the conclusion that we're 2 continents of 4 civs
Markstar dit :
yep
krys van europa dit :
in squares
Markstar dit :
but we'll see, I guess
krys van europa dit :
yes
Markstar dit :
it makes sense, though
Markstar dit :
hmm, cIV coming out soon and I need to study
krys van europa dit :
hehe
Markstar dit :
but I fear I'll be weak. (
krys van europa dit :
just : do you think we need to give you mansory right now ? (techs' cost)
krys van europa dit :
we'll give it to you anyway if metal happens to know it too
Markstar dit :
no, we don't need it right now
krys van europa dit :
okies
krys van europa dit :
the best is :
krys van europa dit :
excellent communication
Markstar dit :
yep, indeed
krys van europa dit :
that's how we can win the game
krys van europa dit :
btw, where are you on writing ?
Markstar dit :
*DELETED - other game*
krys van europa dit :
we'll get bronze in a few turns
krys van europa dit :
sthg like 3
Markstar dit :
aehm, not sure.. about 6 turns
Markstar dit :
can't open Civ here (university)
krys van europa dit :
ok
krys van europa dit :
if it's that close, we won't be able to research even CB
Markstar dit :
yep.
Markstar dit :
told ya.
krys van europa dit :
i can't recall who was to research CoL and philo
krys van europa dit :
(hey we were on writing too before meeting you)
Markstar dit :
but I see you have already founded your 2nd city as well - nice
Markstar dit :
and bonus wheat
krys van europa dit :
yep, close to where we found you
krys van europa dit :
we're on granny now
Markstar dit :
of course.
krys van europa dit :
so, who will research Philo and CoL ?
Markstar dit :
I think it makes sense if we go for CoL since it's more expensive
Markstar dit :
I'm still a little scared that somebody else will get Phil first, though
Markstar dit :
but chances are pretty slim I guess
krys van europa dit :
well here are the costs :
krys van europa dit :
you : 8 + 10 = 18
krys van europa dit :
anyone else (but metal) : 5 + 8 + 6 = 19
krys van europa dit :
metal don't even have alpha, so they're out now
krys van europa dit :
only brotherhood could bug you i think
krys van europa dit :
i also think you should do CoL, but let's compare our science output in a few turns ok ?
Markstar dit :
well, they don't have alphabet from the start...
Markstar dit :
sure
krys van europa dit :
yeah, see the costs above
Markstar dit :
more precise: the turn when we exchange writing
krys van europa dit :
exactly
krys van europa dit :
although 1/18 isn't big
krys van europa dit :
and we'll need to think of gold shipments
Markstar dit :
btw, there is NOOO way we are going to give Republic to the other two, right? not even CoL
krys van europa dit :
don't know
krys van europa dit :
it depends on what we plan to do with them
Markstar dit :
hehe
krys van europa dit :
by default i'd say don't share that of course
Markstar dit :
well, we can talk about that in several months. *sigh*
krys van europa dit :
hmm
*DELETED a whole part - other game*
krys van europa dit :
waoh
Markstar dit :
?
krys van europa dit :
playing the turn of gremlins
krys van europa dit :
milf are more developped than us
krys van europa dit :
they're ind
krys van europa dit :
are you also on a gold hill (capital) ?
Markstar dit :
yes
Markstar dit :
you?
krys van europa dit :
yup
krys van europa dit :
interesting F8
krys van europa dit :
the 4 teams have 2 cities
krys van europa dit :
and milf have culture ?
Markstar dit :
I must say I was rather surprised that you already had your 2nd city
Markstar dit :
we did ours almost immediately and iirc we built it the same turn you built yours
krys van europa dit :
well, we just built our settler right at or just after size 3
Markstar dit :
looks like we made a mistake...
krys van europa dit :
we got our 2nd city after you
krys van europa dit :
our settler moved 3 times
Markstar dit :
hmm
Markstar dit :
you sure about that (that you built it after us)?
Markstar dit :
anyways, not important now
krys van europa dit :
look at the F8 power screen
Markstar dit :
we can see a wheat on flood plains as well, but it is rather far from our capital.
krys van europa dit :
yours will be easier to spot it, with only you and us on it
Markstar dit :
I'll do some more analysing once I'm home
Markstar dit :
don't have much time nowadays.
krys van europa dit :
okies
krys van europa dit :
onto you with superslow
Markstar dit :
superslow?
krys van europa dit :
superfastn, sorry
Markstar dit :
hehe
krys van europa dit :
didn't know you didn't know the joke
Markstar dit :

krys van europa dit :
in fact we get BW in 2
Markstar dit :
ahh, cool

[Darkness]

Excellent work Krys! :)[goodjob]

[Socrates]

OK, been messing around with Stapel, who doesn't play in the game and doesn't even lurk. It appears that the pop access for our email address is charged by Yahoo, and that's why we can't access it through Outlook Express for example. Oddly enough, it is free for my email address on yahoo.fr (and has always been) !! [eek] I'd really like to use our team email address for official communication, just like we do with the ISDG, so that there is no need to copy-paste what we get in this thread.

Is there a way to move our account to yahoo.fr for example, or what could we do ? Diplo is already giving me a headache... [crazyeye]

[Socrates]

Turn is in ! (turn 23, 2850BC)

The Milfhunters sent us Bronze Working for our Alphabet. [lol] Err, we get Bronze next turn, and we told them it's Masonry we want. The Superslow syndrom (I also had a hard time figuring out our current deals and all).

I think I can play it today anyway. Up to us to send the right message afterwards.

[Socrates]

Turn played and sent.

http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/kryszcztov/20051029153029_Superfast-023-2850BC-1.jpg
114.02KB
There was a worker between the cow and the wheat, but we don't want to attack the Milfhunters, uh ? [tongue]

Science down to 50%. I forgot to resend Alphabet to the Milfhunters, but hopefully they'll send Masonry next time.

quote:krys van europa dit :
hi beam
krys van europa dit :
(stop playing civ4 for 2 min )
krys van europa dit :
anyway, when you read this :
krys van europa dit :
kingreno or you sent us Bronze Working instead of Masonry, I believe
krys van europa dit :
in the superfast CIV3 game
krys van europa dit :
we're ready to trade Alpha for Masonry, but not Bronze Working

Next turn :
- Warrior : south again, and then maybe west ?
- Science : we need to contact Civant, but it's likely we'll start on Philosophy. They need to finish Writing though.
- We also need to sign peace with both our neighbours in the south ! [eek] Don't hesitate to contact them on MSN.

[Socrates]

Looks like we'll have to set the slider on money next turn...

quote:krys van europa dit :
so
krys van europa dit :
about superslow
krys van europa dit :
that was
krys van europa dit :
we need to coordinate research there
Whomp dit :
Yep
Whomp dit :
and I kinda would like to discuss wonders
krys van europa dit :
more important and urgent thing first :
krys van europa dit :
we get Bronze next turn
Whomp dit :
We get all techs
krys van europa dit :
err my question is : how many turn to Writing for you ?
Whomp dit :
In the ISDG?
krys van europa dit :
no
krys van europa dit :
superslow
Whomp dit :
oh...
Whomp dit :
I don't know. I have not looked at a save...
Whomp dit :
Markstar plays the saves
krys van europa dit :
ah
Whomp dit :
I should PM him just to see if he wants me to play some saves...are we the hold up?
krys van europa dit :
markstar is rarely online
krys van europa dit :
we get Bronze Working next turn
Whomp dit :
Should I play it?
krys van europa dit :
if you're able to open your latest turn (before MS played it, then you would tell us how many turns to Writing you are
Whomp dit :
ok let me see if I can find it
krys van europa dit :
ok
krys van europa dit :
so ?
Whomp dit :
I have to read german
krys van europa dit :

Whomp dit :
gmx account
Whomp dit :
I have it dl'd now I need to find the password and load it
krys van europa dit :
i don't get it
Whomp dit :
I need to find the save password for our team
krys van europa dit :
i didn't get the thing about German
Whomp dit :
the email box is not in english
krys van europa dit :
ah ok
Whomp dit :
It's a german email
krys van europa dit :
Du muss Deutsch sprechen...
Whomp dit :
I guess. lol
Whomp dit :
brb
Whomp dit :
turn 23 we were 4 away
Whomp dit :
2850 BC
krys van europa dit :
ok thanks
Whomp dit :
are we turn 23 or 24 now?
krys van europa dit :
we should do some money next turn, so
krys van europa dit :
we were 23
Whomp dit :
ok and we are last
krys van europa dit :
we both have played
krys van europa dit :
so, you should contact Markstar about it
Whomp dit :
he's online
krys van europa dit :
and update us on every turn now
krys van europa dit :
no he's not ?
Whomp dit :
I thought I saw him earlier
Whomp dit :
I will send him a pm
Whomp dit :
tell him we need to work on what's next
Whomp dit :
Philo for who?
krys van europa dit :
let's meet online for that
krys van europa dit :
i guess, same as isdg
Whomp dit :
IM?

krys van europa dit :
team with more science potential goes on CoL
krys van europa dit :
yup
Whomp dit :
ok so we should check beakers
krys van europa dit :
nice
Whomp dit :
I will see if he can meet on IM

[Socrates]

Woohoo, is there anyone in there ?

Turn is in ! (turn 24, 2800BC)

http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/kryszcztov/2005114215718_Superfast-024-2800BC-1.jpg
81.71KB
We get Bronze Working, as expected.

I've already moved our warrior south, but I don't want to send the turn before consulting my teammates and maybe Civant. What to do with our gold before Civant gets Writing ? We could store gold, but there is also the opportunity of researching Ceremonial Burial, the cheapest tech around. It costs 60 beakers, and we will be at 12 gpt this turn (ie. 5 turns), except that we must get us some lux because of Stripe at size 2, and next turn KF at size 3. Civant still have a few turns left to get Writing, and in the case we get to research Philosophy, we wouldn't need to start on it asap, contrary to Civant on CoL. If we're indeed to research Philo. In that case, I'm willing to get the cheap Ceremonial Burial for a few turns.

Apart from that, I believe we want to have Stripe on full growth, ie. we'll build our warrior in 2 turns (we have 7 shields stored, and full growth implies 2 spt). That's fine with me, but do we want to build a worker instead ? That can be decided next turn, in the case of full growth, and I'd be fine with a worker, if we could sign a peace treaty with both Milfhunters and Metal.

[Darkness]

CB is good. Phil is cheaper than COL anyway, so we won't have to start immediately.
Stripe -&gt; warrior, IMHO. We do need some protection, plus the MP will negate the need for the lux slider (in Stripe anyway).

[Socrates]

Turn played and sent.

http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/kryszcztov/200511518303_Superfast-024-2800BC-2.jpg
103.69KB
Warrior moved south.

http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/kryszcztov/2005115183028_Superfast-024-2800BC-3.jpg
132.75KB
Full growth in both cities.

Lux to 20%, start on Ceremonial Burial at 80%.

Sent Alphabet unaccepted to Milfhunters.


Next turn :
- Warrior : east ?
- Worker : I'd say east, to chop that forest on plains (10 shields for the granary, and irrigation easier than mine).

[Darkness]

Agree on both moves... :)

[Banzai]

Sounds good to me too :)

[Socrates]

OK, I have sent this to Civant :

quote:Hi both of you !

We have discovered Bronze Working this turn, but I'd like to discuss some stuff with you first before playing. Could you come online soon ?

krys

I've just contacted Markstar online :

quote:krys van europa dit :
hey markstar
Markstar dit :
hi
krys van europa dit :
we know Bronze in superlow
Markstar dit :
sorry I havn't been online recently
Markstar dit :
actually I gotta go in 2min
Markstar dit :
cool
Markstar dit :
we'll be done in 3 turns
krys van europa dit :
ok, we started on CB
krys van europa dit :
i think we'll do philo ?
Markstar dit :
yep, that would probably make sence
krys van europa dit :
okies, well, we're set
krys van europa dit :
send writing asap
Markstar dit :
we might think about compensation if you get the leader from rep.
krys van europa dit :
lol
krys van europa dit :
get lost
krys van europa dit :

krys van europa dit :
i hope this is some humour...
Markstar dit :
seriously - you have twice the chances
krys van europa dit :
hmmm
krys van europa dit :
in civ4 we could build a wonder for both
Markstar dit :
and who knows when will be the next time that we research a tech that nobody else has....
Markstar dit :
yeah, but cIV sucks.
krys van europa dit :
oh
Markstar dit :
at least that means that I have more time for other stuff.
krys van europa dit :
the 2 other teams are really sleeping in this game
krys van europa dit :
milf and metal
Markstar dit :
yep, I'm going to post about this
we will start skipping turns and I suggest for teams to get additional members
Markstar dit :
(us included)
krys van europa dit :
sleeping = also not responding to messages
Markstar dit :
the tt says we have the save for 2 days but I only saw it today in the inbox. oh well
krys van europa dit :
diplo-wise
krys van europa dit :
no, i played yesterday i think
Markstar dit :
anyways, g2g to a class (databanks)
krys van europa dit :
oh no on saturday, you're right
Markstar dit :
that's what I thought...
krys van europa dit :
ok, have a good day
Markstar dit :
mmh
krys van europa dit :
cheers
Markstar dit :
you, too, maybe I'll be on later.

In the meantime I had sent this to Milfhunters :

quote:Hi Beam and KR !

Would it be possible to discuss peace on MSN someday ? Also, are you still for a trade between our Alphabet and your Masonry ? We'll send you Alphabet this turn, hoping to get Masonry in return...

krys, on behalf of the Gremlins

No reply from either Beam or Kingreno, despite the messages marked as read.

And this to Metal (email) :

quote:Hi Team Metal !

Would it be possible to discuss peace on MSN or through another channel someday ? Hoping to hear from you...

krys, on behalf of the Gremlins

No reply so far.

[Darkness]

Well, our progress may be slow, but we seem to be getting somewhere anyway (with Civant I mean)..

[Socrates]

Turn is in ! (turn 25, 2750BC)

Turn played and sent. :D

http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/kryszcztov/2005111511819_Superfast-025-2750BC-1.jpg
100.48KB
Warrior moved east.

http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/kryszcztov/2005111511841_Superfast-025-2750BC-2.jpg
131.33KB
Worker moved east.

KF works the cow, the wheat and the wine. Stripe works the wheat and one BG. Lux still 20%.

The Milfhunters now know Alphabet !! [blush2] This is rather strange. Maybe they got it in a hut ? Or they've been pretending they were not researching it with their silence about our trade idea ? So much for Masonry anyway ! Metal still lack Alphabet. We should discuss with those 2 teams now. I'm going to spam their PM account... [groucho]


Next turn :
- Warrior : east ?
- Worker : chop ? [lol]
- New warrior in Stripe : MP, so that we could lower lux to 10% ?

[Socrates]

I think it's a bit useless to tell, but anyway it's clear for me now : my interest in this game is next to zero, which means that I'm retiring from the game. But the game died by itself anyway, right ? Too bad, that would have been interesting.

[Darkness]

quote:Originally posted by kryszcztov

I think it's a bit useless to tell, but anyway it's clear for me now : my interest in this game is next to zero, which means that I'm retiring from the game. But the game died by itself anyway, right ? Too bad, that would have been interesting.


It's fine Krys... :)
The game is dead anyway (just like all the civ3 PBEMs I am in)...

[Banzai]

dito :(