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View Full Version : *Spoiler* Team Engineer -Markstar's Superfast PBEM


grahamiam
20-06-2005, 21:00
This is the spoiler thread for Team Engineer. Please do not read further if you are on a competing team!

grahamiam
20-06-2005, 21:04
ok, Romeo's prefered civ's are as follows:

Sumeria
Celts
Egypt
Greece
Persia

romeothemonk
21-06-2005, 00:08
My preferred color is black.

bed_head7
21-06-2005, 10:08
Of those, I'd like Celts first.

grahamiam
21-06-2005, 15:08
i agree, celts would be my #1, over Sumeria, just because of the UU + AGR. However, we need to review Mark's selection method for civ's to ensure we have a good chance to get it.

romeothemonk
21-06-2005, 18:46
I couldn't really understand his selection method. I really don't mind anyrace in this game as long as they get cheap price culture. In Fab Four, before it went really badly for me, I had cultural pressure up the yingyang on everyone, and the borders made their warring take a whole lot longer than they wanted to. A similar move here would not be that bad.

grahamiam
21-06-2005, 19:22
if we're stuck on a continent with 3 or 4 other civ's, I don't see us having a lot of time to build culture.

grahamiam
22-06-2005, 15:14
ok, let's talk about the listed civ's so we can submit to Rik later today. I would propose swapping Egypt and Persia such that the Persians are #3 and Egypt is #5. Listed order is currently proposed as follows:

1. Celts
2. Sumeria
3. Persia
4. Greece
5. Egypt

romeothemonk
22-06-2005, 16:34
Looks good to me. All of those civs have nice UU, allowing for early war to take off. We will need pults pretty quick as well, but that will be a research strategy.
I am fine with that list and would submit it as is.

bed_head7
23-06-2005, 11:14
Seconded.

Any ideas for password?

Pastorius
23-06-2005, 11:56
grahamthebedmonk?

grahamiam
23-06-2005, 14:50
[lol] very nice paal, that looks good to me :)

also, i'm going to try today to open a gmail account for the saves that we can all access. that way, there won't be any problems when we switch players. hopefully, this game utilizes matrix's turn tracker.

grahamiam
23-06-2005, 15:24
list and p/w sent to Rik

romeothemonk
23-06-2005, 18:29
Excellent smithers!!
I am looking forward to this one a lot.

grahamiam
25-06-2005, 03:42
all of our selections were rejected due to the selection method. Rik wants us to select 5 new civ's, but I'm not sure what the heck the criteria is so I asked which civ's are still available. Maybe it'll shed some light on what this process is as none of us seem to understand it.

edit: actually, I'm kind of pissed about this. Why are all 5 of ours eliminated but all other 7 teams have a civ from thier list? can't he find a fucking way to give us at least one civ from our list and give someone else a different selection from thiers? And I know we sent our list very early (2nd or 3rd), so how the hell did the others select before us [rant] [mad] [dunno]

Rik Meleet
25-06-2005, 03:44
I'm not going to tell you as that would give you some information of the other teams and possibly create an unfair civ-choice. That is the reason why I asked 5 instead of just 1.

Just choose 5 non-Agri civs you'd like to play. I'll check your top choice for availability etc. You get the civ you prefer (if possible).

grahamiam
25-06-2005, 03:50
sorry, can't sign in MSN right now. problems with the connection. plus, i need my teamates to help with the list. how 8 teams can submit 40 civ choices and not get 8 distinct civ's is beyond me [ponder]

Rik Meleet
25-06-2005, 03:52
Sure, Consider you options. I've send the PM to all 3 team-members so they are aware of it when they log in.

Rik Meleet
25-06-2005, 04:12
quote: actually, I'm kind of pissed about this. Why are all 5 of ours eliminated but all other 7 teams have a civ from thier list? can't he find a fucking way to give us at least one civ from our list and give someone else a different selection from thiers? And I know we sent our list very early (2nd or 3rd), so how the hell did the others select before us -

The selection method (as described by Markstar in the thread) used was:
1 - Compare the 1st slot. All civs that are unique (chosen by only 1 team in that slot) are chosen.
2 - If a team has been assigned a civ; the team's choices for later slots are ignored.
3 - Double civ-choices in any slot are automatically removed from the game - eliminated.
4 - Compare the 2nd slot. All civs that aren't eliminated and are unique (chosen by only 1 team in that slot) are chosen. rince and repeat for all 5 slots.

Meaning in your case: your slot 1 civ was doubled. Your slot 2 civ was doubled or already uniquely chosen in slot 1. Your slot 3 civ was doubled or already uniquely chosen in slot 1 or 2. Your slot 4 civ was doubled or already uniquely chosen in slot 1,2 or 3. Your slot 5 civ was doubled or already uniquely chosen in slot 1,2,3 or 4.

The other 7 teams had chosen a civ in a slot that was both unique and not chosen in an earlier slot by a different team. The civ selection has nothing to do with the order in which the PM's were received. The play-order in the game will be.

I will post a clarification in the main thread on how the civs were assigned to the teams after all 8 teams have a civ assigned. Sorry for the inconvenience, but the selection method was known upfront in this post: http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=2767&REPLY_ID=52828

grahamiam
25-06-2005, 04:24
well, sorry, but this just gets my "irish" up [lol]

grahamiam
25-06-2005, 04:42
ok, my short list (and I don't particulary care which at this point as they all have weaknesses to exploit)

Ottomans (we'll be early targets)
Chinese (fast UU, but again, early targets)
Arabs (cheap and fast UU, but early target and expansionist trait)
Carthage (defensive UU, seafaring)
Rome (good early UU, militaristic trait may be good in a wargame, but not overly useful)
Indian (good UU, we'll be early targets)

well, you guys probably have a better idea of what civ to play. I really think, since this is 8 humans, that we'll end up in wars. Cultural victory will be nearly impossible. Plus, there's a lot of talent in this one, and those teams got a prefered civ that they feel good about. Could be interesting (and when engineers say "interesting", it does not necessarily imply "good")

bed_head7
25-06-2005, 07:57
Well, I am a bit unhappy as well. Why we can't see the list of who is available doesn't really make sense, as we already lost our top five here. With two agri on it, it isn't as if this situation is really our fault. We don't even need to know which civs are chosen, just which ones are eliminated would be nice. But even that hasn't been provided to us.

I think I might rather have France, Byzantium, or England before Carthage, Rome, or India.

And, is interesting ever good?

grahamiam
25-06-2005, 19:46
I would recommend we stay away from Seafaring (not sure why I listed Carthage last night). There will be 2 continents with 4 civ's each, and I don't think we can play with only 1 trait and expect to survive.
Commercial is not a trait to overlook. We will have less corruption which means we will be able to build more units. That's why I listed Rome and India (not to mention, both have very good UU's). France is one I overlooked that we could play well (Ind & Com).

So, short list as follows atm (not listed in a prefered order):
Ottomans
Chinese
Arabs
France
Rome
India

bed_head7
25-06-2005, 21:54
I disagree about seafaring. On a continents map, that trait still has quite a bit of value. Our chances of getting a galley over there during the AA or early MA are much better. Assuming a twelve tile separation between continents, which seems about average to me, we need spend only two turns at sea, meaning we have a 9/16 chance of making it to the other continent. Non seafaring, that would be three turns at sea, and a 1/8 chance of making it to the other continent. We will also still need a navy eventually, and not to a substantially lower degree than on an archipelago. Now, I realize that tech brokering isn't the same with humans, but if we wind up as the only seafaring civ, there is quite a bit of room to take advantage of that. Now, I see why we wouldn't want the ones I mentioned because of their UU. I rarely think too much in terms of that, for some reason. But I don't think we should toss the seafaring trait aside as being useless.

grahamiam
26-06-2005, 02:21
ok, list as of now (no particular order)
Ottomans
Chinese
Arabs
France
Rome
India
England
Byzantines

I really recommend against SEA trait, but if you guys want it, that's fine. I see the contact advantage, but I don't think it helps much in an all human game. We need to get this list to 5 soon (not sure where Romeo's at)

bed_head7
26-06-2005, 03:34
Well, if you insist. Go ahead and remove England and Byzantium.

My list then would be:
Ottomans
China
France
India
Rome

grahamiam
26-06-2005, 04:19
the other thing about Seafaring, JD, is that we would be forced to have a coastal capitol. This would essentially cut our core in half, unless we did a costly palace jump.

romeothemonk
27-06-2005, 17:02
My list:
Rome
Ottos
France
India
Japan

romeothemonk
27-06-2005, 17:04
We will be early targets, India is probably the best then, as we can get to pults really quickly. Japan and Ottos are on there for the Kickass UU. Japan also starts with a tech at Mono. India for points listed, France is always solid. Rome, just to piss of GRS.

grahamiam
27-06-2005, 17:10
Ok, I will submit the following to Rik as our order of preference (kind of a combo between the lists).

Ottoman's
France
China
India
Rome

Everyone ok with that? if so, let's submit and see what we draw.

romeothemonk
27-06-2005, 18:06
Actually I did some more thinking. Submit Japan first. We can be the first to Ponies by ~8 turns. Then we will see what the little ****masters on the other teams think of us.
We could be very "interesting."
I would put the Japs first, bump China from the list and have the ottos second.
Of course what we have could work, I was just thinking outside the box.

romeothemonk
27-06-2005, 18:09
Interesting doesn't always mean bad, BD, it just always means overtime. And since engineers aren't hourly, it means unpaid overtime.
Which is ok, because I would just waste my time with crappy stuff like family, friends, and church activities. Everyone knows that they are completely expendable to make Lumbourgh's stock go up a quarter of a point. (I have this amazing habit of getting done with only 50 hours a week, about 20 less than the other grad students/research scientists, and I stay as productive)

grahamiam
27-06-2005, 18:50
interesting = weekends ;)

anyways, I agree with Romeo, though I would not put them above the Ottomans or France. REL + MiL kind of stinks, but knowing where horses are helps and having early archers means no one messes with us for the 1st 30-40 turns. However, I also seem to get my ass handed to me everytime I play Japan.

List (for me, as I still rank Otto's and France over Japan):
Ottomans
France
Japan
India
Rome

romeothemonk
27-06-2005, 19:02
I can accept that list. Submit that puppy.

bed_head7
28-06-2005, 01:12
I can accept that as well.

grahamiam
28-06-2005, 02:45
ok, will pm to Rik

romeothemonk
29-06-2005, 20:34
Hey guys, I may have started a minor feud/flamewar with Beam. I hope that it is all in good fun, if it is not ok with you guys, I will go and apologize.
I also asked Rik to rename our UU to Milton. I have no idea what race we are, but Milfhunters (Beam and company) are the Otto's. Looking forward to this one.

Rik Meleet
29-06-2005, 20:39
You are France. I had already taken the liberty to rename all UU's. Yours is (unless you want a different UU name): L'Engineer

grahamiam
29-06-2005, 20:56
How about "Mousquet vers le haut des anus" instead? Yeah, babblefish sucks, but what can I do? No decent filth will be translated [lol]

grahamiam
29-06-2005, 21:14
Romeo, I really don't see the need for the French bashing in the common thread. I know it's just in jest, but sometimes people don't like that kind of shit. Make fun other thier MILF name, thier purple hair, or something, but I'd prefer to leave the Anti-Nation stuff that spills over to real-life out of this game.

romeothemonk
29-06-2005, 21:55
Roger that cheif, will go fix that now.

romeothemonk
29-06-2005, 22:27
Do you guys mind if I try and sprinkle in tons of Office space quotes and random spam? I will try and keep stuff legal and non-discriminatory. The random trashtalking is the most fun part of CDZ. I will keep it calm for the most part, and will try to help us as much as I can. Our best bet is not being next to Kemal & Co right away. If we are, I suggest giving them an OCC G.A.
If I remember Rik's maps, he likes to give huts 1 border expansion away. Seeing our starting position will be key.

grahamiam
29-06-2005, 23:05
I have no problem with trash talk, just leave to politics BS out is all I was saying. no need to have it turn into something more than civ.

as far as starting near Kemal, OCC (or even 3CC despotic) GA's is something they will be on guard for, so if we catch them it'll be extra [evil]

romeothemonk
29-06-2005, 23:18
As France we start with Alpha and Pottery, correct? I suggest we attempt to get to math really fast. I think an early stack of 6-8 pults would be awesome.
I would not suggest a run at philo.
Is there a team that we can trust/trade with? I like working with Matrix, and I think we could develop a nice tech trade deal if we are on the same landmass.
There are 2 early bangers we have to watch out for, Sumeria and Rome. Banzai is really quite good and giving him legions can be dangerous. Matrix and killer are not very aggressive, so I doubt we will see too many WC's early. Thank goodness after our 1v1, I really don't want to see a chariot for many moons.

grahamiam
29-06-2005, 23:41
we start with MAS and ALPHA. I would recommend we go after Pottery if the start is food rich. Also, before going full bore on the cat's, we'll need the following:
Spears to protect them
Swords or Horseman to kill the dinged units

So I think I'd prefer Pott, BW, IW or Pott, Wheel, WC before going for Math. Cat's are cheap (20s) but horses and swords aren't. Also, I always feel more comfy once I know where the key resources are located.

romeothemonk
30-06-2005, 00:16
O.k. Sounds fair.
Research plan of Pottery then Bronze working then Wheel then Math. My plan was to hope to take advantage of SGL's but, as our 1v1 game showed, they really aren't that great when the fundamentals head south.

grahamiam
30-06-2005, 14:53
Looks like Rik is going to release it this weekend, you guys gonna be around or busy with the holiday?

romeothemonk
30-06-2005, 17:39
I am out of town this weekend. I really respect your opening moves, seeing how fast you got a settler pump up against me. I trust that you can do it again.

grahamiam
30-06-2005, 18:21
ok, well, bedhead does pretty well too so I fully plan on posting pics and discussing ;)

one other note: since smalltalk has improved turntracker such that it now can handle multiple email addy's, I will just list the ones that I have for Romeo (mattjakeTAgwtcTODnet) and Bedhead (jdmcbrTAgmailTODcom) instead of using the teamengineer addy, if that's ok with you guys.

digger760
30-06-2005, 18:59
you might wanna adjust those emails so that spambots dont harvest them.

grahamiam
30-06-2005, 19:21
dooh, sorry guys. hope I didn't cause any problems. Thanks digger!

romeothemonk
30-06-2005, 20:25
Looks good. Please post lots of pics and such, and I will try to do likewise. This thread will be a handy place to pad our postcounts without random spam.
Please do send to my mattjake address. I am just saying you don't need to ask us if we care to move our settler, etc. I trust that you or JD can decide and perform admirably without my input. The more engineers on a project, the better chance of spectacular failure, but also the better chance of sucess.

bed_head7
30-06-2005, 21:52
Will be here all weekend. I will be spending far too much time on the computer for probably the next couple of weeks, at which point my schedule will probably be changing some.

One question about research plan, though. Are we really planning on building any spearmen so early that Bronze Working needs to be our second tech? That seems highly unlikely to me, even against human players. I figure we'll have some archers around to fight off an archer rush if it comes our way, but spearmen? How about we go for Wheel after Pottery, get ourselves an idea of where to settle for some horses, and then at that point look to see if we can trade for Bronze Working somehow. I don't know how much trading goes on in a PBEM, but I am guessing that they do happen on at least some level? I don't know, researching Bronze Working just feels so inappropriate after years of letting the AI race for it and then trading for it with a better tech. Plus, we have four scientific opponents, if I remember correctly, so it is a safe bet that a neighbor will start with Bronze Working.

grahamiam
30-06-2005, 22:33
very good point :) ok, we go Pott then Wheel. Hopefully we find someone by then.

In an 8 player, in order to survive for a while, I fully recommend we enter a research agreement with a neighbor or 2. There is always the possibility of a backstab, but we will fall behind by a huge rate if we try to go it alone.

romeothemonk
30-06-2005, 22:34
Good call on the trading, but if we haven't met anyone to trade with yet, we should research it in the #2 hole.
Something to consider would be a warrior rush? Just wander over by their capitol or cities, so they can't go granary first. At least that might be a sneaky thing to do.

grahamiam
01-07-2005, 03:21
quote:Originally posted by bed_head7

Will be here all weekend. I will be spending far too much time on the computer for probably the next couple of weeks, at which point my schedule will probably be changing some.

Why don't you start this then? That way, you get some turns in before your schedule gets too busy. Right now, let's plan on a 20T cycle, that way everyone gets to play a good portion of the game. it's basically a demogame anyways, so we all have a say in what's going to happen.

bed_head7
01-07-2005, 03:35
Oh, I thought the whole point of this thing was that with turns going to three different people, the turns would be getting played quickly, by the first person to get to it. Of course, considering that we all live in the states, it isn't like we would be on at all that different hours. And my schedule isn't getting that busy, just not so empty.

grahamiam
01-07-2005, 07:07
Well, if the current leader is out or unavailable, then yes, someone should pick it up. However, I think it's best for us to have some consistency by rotating leaders rather than having an archaic way of picking up each save.
With that in mind, lets set the rotation at BH, me, then Romeo/20T each.

bed_head7
01-07-2005, 07:23
Okay. I still think we shouldn't stick too rigorously to this though. Like, if I know that both of you are working for the next 6-8 hours and won't be playing, I may just go ahead and play it, if that is alright. And I would be fine with someone else doing the same with me. Depending on the map, MM may be obvious and there won't be any difference. Our styles won't matter, as there is only one way to play. Perhaps. We'll see once it all starts, I guess.

grahamiam
02-07-2005, 03:22
ok, here's the start

http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/grahamiam/20057222053_frenchopen.JPG

too bad those food bonuses are on the plains [cry]

well, looks like the best we can do is +3fpt (irrigating wine plains does not give extra food).

Rik Meleet
02-07-2005, 04:53
Just you wait for what I have in store... [evil]

grahamiam
02-07-2005, 05:20
well, i hope we're fighting the other humans, not the map

bed_head7
02-07-2005, 10:41
I hope I haven't erred here, but I only really saw one option for what to do here. You can shoot me if I am wrong. Here is our start. Looks very very nice. This is my first PBEM where I am on the same continent as another human player, so I am not sure exactly what is necessary of the start. I would probably do warrior, settler, warrior, granary with this start if only dealing with an AI. I don't know if we can get away with that against humans, though. Actually, with an industrious worker, I would probably go warrior, granary, settler. But I can't imagine that we can take that chance here. I would like to get a consensus on the path we take, though, so that I can figure out what to do with the worker, exactly. I may consider modding a replica and then playing it out in a few different ways, just to see what works.

http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/bed_head7/20057293128_superfast001a.jpg
72.19KB

bed_head7
02-07-2005, 11:56
Alright, I just playtested a bit. Here is my plan, and feel free to tell me that it is too reckless.

Build warrior, which completes in 3700 BC. Worker irrigates and then roads wheat. Worker then moves to the forest east of Paris and chops towards the granary. Then moves to the cow without roading the chopped tile, and irrigates and roads the grass cow. Granary finishes in 3000 BC with zero waste, at size four with five food in the box. The worker has moved to the closest BG (hopefully there will be a BG under the chopped forest, but if not it doesn't matter), and starts to mine. The first settler takes five turns, after which Paris will be on a 4-5 cycle. I know it is risky, but a four turn settler factory and a settler by 2750 BC might be worth that risk, and we do have the one warrior who can hang around close to the capital to deter any funny business. The one and only thing that really bugs me though is that once we have all of our tiles fully improved, there are quite a few wasted shields. Unfortunately, there aren't enough shields in the capital to get a warrior/settler combo factory. So I guess we can probably settle CxxC so that our first ring can use all of these juicy tiles.

On a less important note, do we have any ideas for a different naming scheme for our cities? I didn't have anything in mind, but I have noticed a lot of PBEMs don't use the default, and it would definitely fit with the current theme we have.

akots
02-07-2005, 12:21
That plan of yours might be extremely risky. I'd say settler factory might be very risky anyhow in such a game. All your neighbor needs to kill you is a single warrior. But they might have an archer. Rik has probably placed starts about 12 tiles apart from each other (as usually). So, the guests can come on turn 16 or maximum 20.

bed_head7
02-07-2005, 13:28
Well, a single warrior won't do it, since we will have the one. It can explore in the few tiles around the start and then return home to guard the castle. Fortified on a hill, it would even have a decent chance of surviving against an archer. And, is 12 tiles really all that separates starts? That seems really close. But I imagine that you are probably right in this case. Ah well.

grahamiam
02-07-2005, 18:09
let's spit out a settler before the granery, that way we have another town that can produce units early. Also, we can MM to minimize the wasted shields.

bed_head7
05-07-2005, 02:24
Okay, so I have been thinking about it some more. How about this for a plan? We do what a suggested as long as there are no opponents nearby. If granary finishes and it seems necessary to escort the first settler, we can always build a warrior right after granary and then the settler. We will lack contacts and be a bit light on military, but we won't be leaving anything undefended. We will get off to a start that really can't be matched by the non agris out there. And we dedicate our second city, which will be founded to take advantage of as many BGs as it can get, to pumpimg military to escort settlers from the capital. With the quick setup of the capital (worker only absolutely necessary until 2700ish), we can use the worker to set up the first and skimp a bit on workers until we get get a third and fourth city.

grahamiam
05-07-2005, 03:51
ok, let's go with it. if we don't take some risks, we won't have any shot at this.

romeothemonk
06-07-2005, 00:41
I say maximize the risk for the payoff. I would go with JD's first plan, but the 2nd plan looks pretty solid as well. We will want to be nuttier than Robin Williams on acid if we want to win this.
The industrious chop has got to be used to our advantage. We can use our 2nd city with a chop to pop out an early archer and help someone have a bad day.

bed_head7
06-07-2005, 00:47
I like! But that will be during grahamiam's turnset. Oh well.

romeothemonk
06-07-2005, 01:36
One of the good things about our team is that no one will really expect too much from us. With Beam and Kemal and some of those guys in this, we are not high priority targets, nor are we overly juicy targets.
I think our 2nd city should go warrior, worker, archer chop if contact made, otherwise go rax in the 3 hole.
A reg warrior in our capitol will be nice defensively, on a hill, fortified in a town. I think that the boni are 50% and then 25% and 25%. That gives a defense of 2, but my understanding of this may be off.

bed_head7
06-07-2005, 01:54
No bonus for town, so it is just 50% for hill and 25% for fortified, but that is still 1.75, which should certainly get us through the early stages of the game. I like the build order for town number two, though of course it will have to be dictated by what is going on of course.

bed_head7
06-07-2005, 02:14
I am really wishing that the sugar just out of view SW of the gold hill and the gold hill were in different places. If they were, the second city spot would be perfect over there. Still, I will do some more playtesting, as is possible, to test out how quickly we will be able to get our military caught up with our expansion without skimping on workers. It looks like we are in a bit of a corner so that we can leave a few back cities without defense for awhile. I am thinking that we back fill sooner than usually would happen, as we can't settle overly agressively against humans. That at least gets those lands more productive faster, which should make up for less territory gained, and also take some of the risk out of the plan.

bed_head7
06-07-2005, 22:17
Just thought I would let you know that Team Metal moved their settler, while everyone else settled in place.

romeothemonk
06-07-2005, 22:31
Sounds good. I like updates.

bed_head7
09-07-2005, 12:57
Did we decide to abandon the teamengineer@gmail.com account?

bed_head7
09-07-2005, 14:08
Also, if you guys have the save sitting in your mailboxes when you wake up, you can go ahead and open up the save, hit spacebar, and send it. I might not be able to play until later tomorrow, and no reason to stick to the 20 turn thing in this situation.

grahamiam
09-07-2005, 16:00
we're not using the team engineer account as Matrix and smalltalk have setup the turntracker to send to multiple emails, so it isn't necessary. however, the account exists and your free to use it for other stuff if you want :) I have no use for it.

no turn this morning, btw.

bed_head7
09-07-2005, 22:21
Well yes, I saw that, as I have no mail. As it happens, I am home earlier and will now be leaving later. And what I probably should have said was if you don't see me online and you get the save, feel free to go ahead and play unless you are doing something else.

romeothemonk
15-07-2005, 00:35
Any updates guys? I have only gotten turn 1 at my house.

bed_head7
15-07-2005, 10:21
Perhaps your e-mail address was incorrectly entered into the Turn Tracker. I have played four turns so far.

bed_head7
26-07-2005, 02:53
http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/bed_head7/200572615255_superfast007a.jpg
82.2KB

romeothemonk
26-07-2005, 18:54
2nd city on top of the gold hill? Go for tight build and uber city center commerce? I really don't see any other good spots to the left.
We could settle on the sugar plant and nab 1 fish and 2 whales, then work the gold hill. That will give us CxxC spacing, but essentially waste a BG. Is it better to waste a BG or 2 whales that need an expansion?
Since our capitol will be on pump mode till the end of the forseeable future, I like the gold hill best as we will not be stealing production until later, probably mid to late MA, at that time we can move our city, as I imagine that this second city will have a rax and not much else for a long time.

grahamiam
26-07-2005, 19:16
while it's a bit early in the exploration phase to choose a 2nd site, I agree that the gold hill looks good.

we agreed earlier that we need the 2nd city to be our military machine, so it must have a high shield output. right now, on the gold hill, i count 4 BG's (2 reg BG's, 1 sugar, 1 wine) within the expanded radii, giving us 9spt before corruption at size 4. At size 6, we can get 2 to 3 more spt without working the cow.

If we settle on the sugar, we will be at 7spt at size 4 (2BG's and 2 whales) and can add 2 to 3 more spt at size 6.

Based on the above, the gold hill is better.

Now, we need to decide where to send the warrior. My preference would be to circle around the capitol, heading N, N, E to the hill for the next 3 turns.

romeothemonk
26-07-2005, 19:27
I concur with Grahamiam. Location and movement.
After lurking many different spoilers, I think our best bet is to make sure that the buildings we build include the following:
Granaries, Rax, Markets and Libs, probably in that order. As a nonreligious civ, I see no need for temples.
Libs in our capitol and then 2nd city would be huge due to the river, gold hill, and commercial bonus. Things are looking up for us.

bed_head7
27-07-2005, 02:10
Oh, I never posted my thoughts! Oops. I had almost forgotten to post the picture and did so as I was leaving, but I don't think I had anything to add to what has already been said, or any disagreements. So will go full steam ahead.

grahamiam
06-08-2005, 01:07
i opened the save and see warrior is 4t nw of capitol. next move was to hill? if so, lets go 2 more tilee, then se towards the river. we need the warrior to stay close to home in case of visitors. i would suggest that after reaching the bend in the river, he comes back home and does MP duty.

http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/grahamiam/2005860630_superfast-3500BC.JPG
72.39KB

grahamiam
19-08-2005, 17:37
turn 13 came in last night and I didn't have a chance to play. usually, JD plays it pretty fast (within minutes), but I'm not sure if something happened last night or this weekend. I'll play it once I get home if he doesn't pick it up, but that'll be 5 or 6 hrs from now.

romeothemonk
19-08-2005, 17:53
I was letting JD play the first 20. I can play at lunchtime here, ( 4 hrs noon MT time on Fri).

grahamiam
19-08-2005, 18:09
ok, that's fine with me. It was my idea to chop it up into 20 turn sets so we have a "lead" player at all times but I also think that a swap here or there is fine if it keeps the game moving :)

If possible, post a pic.

romeothemonk
19-08-2005, 19:29
Ok, I will play turn 13 over lunch then. (If I remember, I should though)

romeothemonk
19-08-2005, 22:01
Turn Played. I MM'ed for shields at the end of the turn after the screenie. Please MM back after next turn.
I discovered a new city site for our workers to come from.


http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/romeothemonk/200581921025_team engineer.jpg
69.71KB

bed_head7
20-08-2005, 00:55
Just in case I can't play more of my future turns (I am moving in to my dorm on Sunday and all the first week there is quite a bit of stuff going on before classes start on the 29th), the worker plan is to road the cow, move north, road the BG, move to the wines I guess and mine, then road, then move SW and road. This hooks up Paris and our eventual second city (we did decide on the gold hill?) and gets both of them wines, without slowing down the building of anything. First settler will take five turns and the rest will take four, of course. And, all of this is achieved with no more food waste and only one more wasted shield, as with the worker improvements listed allow Paris to operate a 5-7 factory using 6s, 8s, 7s, and 9s. As we mine those tiles that are unmined and roaded that Paris uses, we will also need to mine and road regular grass tiles to allow surrounding cities to make use of the BG.

I realize much of this is obvious, but I like to be able to refer to something when playing my turns. As a plan is easy to forgot over the course of weeks and months.

romeothemonk
20-08-2005, 03:14
Good plan. I concur. We had planned on gold hill. I like the worker action planning. Will play if it shows up in my inbox over the weekend then.

grahamiam
20-08-2005, 08:12
ok JD, good luck moving in to school :) The worker moves sound fine, we should take a hard look at the screenie now that we have more info to confirm we want our city on the gold hill.

Also, that warrior should start heading back to town. we don't need a suprise visit from the south. Recommend he moves S, then SW 2x, then due W back to town. That should give us enough info about the FP wheat to decide if we want that spot before the gold hill.

bed_head7
20-08-2005, 10:28
Actually, now that you mention it, I am thinking that the spot west of the FP wheat is preferable at this point to the gold hill. We can settle gold hill with the second settler, and at that point, all of the roads will be finished, I believe, allowing settling the turn after it completes, which is always nice.

romeothemonk
20-08-2005, 19:54
I agree with the 1 w of the FP wheat. I am not sure if we want to build it next, but I am open to the idea.

grahamiam
21-08-2005, 03:32
well, 1T W of the wheat is an excellent spot for a worker factory. we'll actually need another worker to help chop the granary but more warriors for MP will be required also...

let's see, worker has already finished roading the cow, so next turn he moves, then roads (2t), move, mine (4T), road (2T), move, road (2T). That's a total of 13 turns. if settler will be done in 12T or less (and I think it will), we should move the 1st settler towards the FP wheat, then the 2nd can move and settle the 2nd city 5T later.

I'm also have 2nd thoughts about the gold hill, as it will overlap a lot with the capitol. by settling near the wheat, we will be cramping the capitol with 2 cities. maybe it's best to get the whales in range of an expansion for that city instead of settling on the goldhill?

bed_head7
21-08-2005, 05:06
This game will not last until the modern ages, I think, and cramping of the capital short term is just what we need. It only really needs the cow, the wheat, and one bg and a forest on growth, and it will be fine. Meaning all of those available bg need to be used by other cities. So a tight build is what we want.

The worker is only finished with irrigating the cow, not roading. It needs to now road. So add two turns to your calculations.

Okay. So if we go for FP now, it doesn't necessarily have to work the wheat straight off. It could build warrior-worker. Or, perhaps it could build the worker in 6 turns by working bg for 2 turns, getting 4s, then working fpwheat for 4 turns, getting 4s and growth, and hopefully it will be close enough to the capital not to lose a shield to waste. We can of course stick to the gold hill idea, as it will be able to use the extra good tiles of Paris sooner. But short term we get worker building a bit slower, I believe. I guess the question is what is better long term.

grahamiam
21-08-2005, 08:11
capitol needs 2 BG's. 1 cow, 1 plain wheat, and 1 mined bg = 5spt with CC. We need 1 more BG to get it up to 7spt and a working settler factory. Capitol has 5 BG's near it plus wine plain, so it should not be a problem.

However, I'm worried about limiting the capitol to 10spt or so into the MA. Building 3T from the captiol with 2 towns could hurt us during the late AA and mid MA when we're trying to build 80 shield libs, 100 shield markets, and 70 shield Knights. Looking at the map right now, my worry is probably unfounded, and we should be ok. However, it just doesn't feel right to have 2 towns 3T from the capitol. Well, I'll probably feel better if the rest of the towns are farther out :)

bed_head7
21-08-2005, 08:34
Oh, I was unclear there. The capital at size five, which is where it starts operating, needs 1s from cow and wheat each, 2s from BG, 1s from grassland, and 1s from center, for 6s. It then needs a forest on growth, and then another mined grassland at size six. Of course, until we mine a couple of grassland, we'll need to rely upon BG to do the job. Once in republic, and then MA, it will have one hill, so 10spt at size seven, and a couple of forests and mined plains will still be around to provide extra shields. 18spt for knights will be easily managable at size nine, working the cow, wheat, hill, two BG, two forests, and two mined plains. At size eleven, working two more regular grassland, it can do 20spt. And even with two cities so close, it will get at least eleven tiles to work.

romeothemonk
22-08-2005, 16:54
I agree with the "cramped" build. I think we treat our builds as an AW type setup. Our best bet is to really hose our nearest neighbor and trade well with another neigbhor.
The more cities we have, the better we can do this. As long as the capitol can get to 18 spt, we should be fine. As JD said, I doubt this game will see modern times, so this build should be ok.

grahamiam
24-08-2005, 16:56
Team Milfhunters are beyond the 24hrs, and are actually at 72hrs. Need a vote from the team on whether or not we should skip them.

I vote skip, we need to keep this moving, and that was the intent of getting more than 1 player per team.

romeothemonk
24-08-2005, 17:31
I vote skip.

bed_head7
25-08-2005, 02:33
I guess it doesn't matter what I think, but skip sounds good to me.

grahamiam
23-09-2005, 15:57
hand-off is coming soon. can we get an update with future plans? maybe a pic for lurkers too :)

bed_head7
23-09-2005, 22:21
Well, the worker plan is still the same as in post 14 on this page. The settling plan was not decided conclusively. The picture has not changed from above. I understand the intent, but really not much to discuss short term from my point of view.

grahamiam
23-09-2005, 22:40
ok, no contact then, and still going for settlers right after the granary, right?

bed_head7
23-09-2005, 22:53
Yes.

romeothemonk
23-09-2005, 23:11
I am in the process of moving, and would prefer the Grahamiam take the next turns.

grahamiam
09-10-2005, 18:17
ok, here we are at turn 20h, before bedhead played the turn.

http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/grahamiam/2005109171156_Engineer-2950.JPG

http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/grahamiam/2005109171431_Engineer-2950-1.JPG

<s>Looks like we're setup for a 5-6 4T settler pump, with an initial settler coming out in about 5T. I'll probably throw in a warrior after the initial settler so we can get our pop up and an explorer out to find someone.</s> sorry, re-read the initial posts and i see now that we will be mining the wines, which will give us a 4-5 settler pump, not 5-6. Looks good :)

bed_head7
09-10-2005, 22:40
Oops, I just realized that I was not supposed to have played. Sorry about that. I just saw the save had come in, played, and went so sleep shortly after without giving it a second thought.

bed_head7
09-10-2005, 22:45
By the way, we were at one point well in the lead in post count, but have no been overtaken by at least one team and the gap between us and others is much smaller. That is likely my fault, since I was playing. I just didn't see too much to discuss. But now that it is not my turnset, I'll try to make up for my earlier silence with lots of annoying questions about progress.

romeothemonk
10-10-2005, 03:20
Our next settler is going to the gold hill on the coast correct?
Or is it going to the plains just west of the FP wheat?
I would likevote for the plains first as it allows for a better worker pump, but the gold hill gives more commerce.
Is food or commerce more important for the second city? I think food then go gold hill for #3.

grahamiam
10-10-2005, 04:31
i agree, food is more important, so I'll send the settler E 1x, NE 2x

digger760
10-10-2005, 11:54
quote:Originally posted by bed_head7

By the way, we were at one point well in the lead in post count,

Post Count? What do you mean by this?

bed_head7
10-10-2005, 12:40
Simply meant that our spoiler thread had the most posts. So, a completely pointless measurement, but I still figured that there was something good about having posted a lot.

grahamiam
14-10-2005, 01:09
so, since the turns are boring, I thought I'd map out the next few worker moves.



http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/grahamiam/200510140518_superfast-eng-2900BC.JPG

So, the next worker actions are to mine and road the wines, move E, road, move E, chop.

Mines will be done in 2T+1frozen, road in 1T+1frozen, move, road in 1T+1frozen, move, chop in 2T+1 frozen.

Settler will be done in 3T (included this turn for consistancy), move to the new spot will take 3T, so in 6T will settle the new spot.

Chop will be completed in 12T, so we really don't have a choice but to build a granary right away there, otherwise we waste the chop. any alternatives?

romeothemonk
14-10-2005, 02:09
Looks good Grahamiam. I got the turn over lunch, so I just played it to give us faster turnaround. Hope no one objects.

grahamiam
14-10-2005, 02:32
no problem. let's just keep talking and posting pic's on what's going on. gives continuity to the non-players :)

grahamiam
16-11-2005, 02:34
ok, i got the save tonight. Why the hell are we building a rax instead of a settler? anyways, switched to settler, Wheel came in, chose WC so we can get to horseman (i guess that's why we chose wheel).

also, horses are located near the wheat, on our city spot :)

romeothemonk
16-11-2005, 04:39
I didn't know what to select for production. In C3, rax is a really nice place holder. I really like the idea of ponies that close.
I don't think I pooched anything up yet.

grahamiam
16-11-2005, 06:27
no, but we need more towns, so it was switched. We don't need a rax the capitol yet, other towns can supply the MP's.

bed_head7
15-01-2006, 12:32
I went ahead and read all the rest of the spoilers. Seems no one put quite the thought into the opening that we did, so perhaps that was something in our favor. Of course, everyone else had contact except the Brotherhood of Nod, as far as I could tell, so we were at a bit of a disadvantage there. After having reread our thread, I am once again very disappointed that this died. I think we made a pretty solid team, and had a good start.