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anarres
28-04-2003, 18:56
I want some book recommendations please.

Sci-Fi and Fantasy only please, I have a reputation to keep.

And Terry Pratchett is a [nono].

P.S. I like 'epics', like Heliconia trilogy, the Mars trilogy, the Ender series, LOTR (nearly forgot it!), Rama, Riftwar saga, Empire series, ...

Kemal
28-04-2003, 19:08
I can highly recommend George R.R. Martin's "A song of Ice and Fire", or Robert Jordan's Wheel of time books. Both excellent series in my view.

anarres
28-04-2003, 19:40
[thumbsup] Excellent! As long as it's Sci-Fi or Fantasy and you liked it a lot I will read it!

Feel free to tell me about their writing style or general setting for the book/series, but please no plot lines, I like to be suprised. ;)

BTW, the Mars trilogy is amazing (Red Mars, Blue Mars, Green Mars). It's by Kim Stanly Robinson and well worth it.

Also at the top of the list is the Helliconia trilogy by Brian Aldiss, an amazing trilogy.

Lt. Killer M
28-04-2003, 20:10
well, I need not recommend D.A. to you.....

anarres
28-04-2003, 20:49
wtf is D.A.?

ERIKK
28-04-2003, 21:52
he he!!

...reading while waiting for the saves to pour in? ;)

ProPain
28-04-2003, 23:30
I can really recommend the Hyperion series by Dan Simmons ( if you haven't already read it) Best sci-fi I ever read. Still a great fan of the author. He also wrote horror and thriller stories and they're magnificent too.

I read the Liveship Traders trilogy by Robinn Hobb last month, liked it very much too.

WildFire
28-04-2003, 23:37
I loved the enders series!

Enders game, Enders shadow (following Beans point of view, Xenocide, Speaker... All really great.

And he has also done Alvin Maker which is also by Card and really good!

DrAlimentado
29-04-2003, 00:13
I can recomend the Dark Materials trilogy by Philip Pullman. Northern Lights, The Subtle Knife and The Amber Spy-Glass. Very inventive stuff, a real blend of fantasy/sci-fi. He 'explains' such things as parallel universe's and dark-matter within the narrative in an extremely creative way.

col
29-04-2003, 01:13
Hey - we have similar tastes. I agree about the Hyperion series. I've got everything that Orson Scott card has written! If youre into hardcore space opera I'd recommend the Reality/Dysfunction/Neutronium Alchemist/Naked God - the Nights dawn series.

Melifluous
29-04-2003, 01:29
I can second the Robert Jordan series, but there are currently 10 books in the series so far and its not yet finished...
At 1000+ per book that is more than a reading list, its a bloody calendar...

Books i have read recently and liked were The Game Players of Titan by phillip k dick or The Ringworld (there are a few sequels IIRC) by Larry Niven... Also Mote in Gods Eye by niven and pournelle...

Some damn good books...
Join a library..

Melifluous

anarres
29-04-2003, 02:25
[dance]

Thanks!! The Guys at work were extremely lame today, I got 1 suggestion...

I have recently read the Ender series, and followed with the first book in the Shadow series. I have 2 and 3 on order for tomorrow.

Does anyone else here like Iain M Banks? I have read all his Sci-Fi and The Player Of Games and Use Of Weapons are very good.

If anyone has any more come to mind please carry on posting them, I read a lot and I prefer to go on recommendation.

Mel: 10 books at 1000+ each? That's dedication! [book]

col
29-04-2003, 09:32
The player of games is just wonderful - read it three times. I've read all his Ian M stuff but dont care for his Ian stuff if you know what I mean.

I really enjoyed Altered Carbon recently. I can alaso recommend the Speed of Dark by elizabeth someone - what its like to be autistic!

I'm still waiting for a recommendation here I havent read. My house is just full of books ;)

Shabbaman
29-04-2003, 09:38
As for science fiction, you definately have to read the Foundation series by Asimov. Best I've ever read. As for Fantasy, I recommend the Amber series, by Zelazny.
If you're not really into reading series, try some of the short stories by Heinlein. He has written some good books as well. 'Stranger in a strange land' is a classic!

(and although you wouldn't expect it from the title, 'Starship troopers' is also very brilliant. Unlike the movie, it is centered on how to conduct warfare in the future, and on a cadet who has to go to 'boot camp')

col
29-04-2003, 10:53
I find Heinlein a bit too right wing for my tastes - especially his later stuff though I did enjoy much of Time Enough for Love. One of the best future warfare books was The Forever War by Joe Haldeman.

Melifluous
29-04-2003, 11:54
quote:Originally posted by col

I find Heinlein a bit too right wing for my tastes - especially his later stuff though I did enjoy much of Time Enough for Love.
I like this bloke, "Have spacesuit, will travel is a very nice book...

quote:Originally posted by col

One of the best future warfare books was The Forever War by Joe Haldeman.

I think we have the same book collection Col, I've just finished reading this one Col, absolutely fantastic!
Melifluous

anarres
29-04-2003, 12:00
Stranger in a strange land is one of my favourite books ever! Starship troopers is also very good, as is space cadets.

Heinlein is more of a libertarian nationalist than a right-winger isn't he? Although he has come out with many right-wing ideas, I do agree with some of his principals, or at least I agree with how I see soem of them in Stranger in a strange land. Starship troopers is too much for me, having to be in the forces to become a citizen and earn the right to vote.

Shabbaman
29-04-2003, 12:10
Yeah, that's what they call a meritocracy. My history teacher claimed to be a meritocrat. imo meritocracy is some form of utopian fascism (sorry for threadjacking).

I'll look on my bookshelf this afternoon. Must be something there... I take it that you've read all dune novels?
As a fanatic Magic player, I used to buy the Inquest magazine before I got a fast internet connection (read: became student). There was a top 100 SF/fantasy list in an issue I own, still working on reading them all.

col
29-04-2003, 15:02
quote:Originally posted by Melifluous
I think we have the same book collection Col, I've just finished reading this one Col, absolutely fantastic!
Melifluous


I doubt it - I have maybe 1000s - just SF and fantasy. At the moment most are in boxes filling a room. I've promised to get rid of 75% of them and just keep the really good ones... ;)

col
29-04-2003, 15:09
Some more

Neuromancer - the original cyberpunk novel.

The first three Dune books - I went off the later ones though the prequels written by Herbert's son are Ok. Frank Herbert wrote lots of other good stuff too.

Alfred Bester - the Demolished man. A classic

John Brunner - The Jagged Orbit
Stand on Zanzibar
The sheep luck up
The shockwave rider
Theses are SF at its finest and stunning in their prescience. Written in the sixties and seventies,I consider these to be among the finest SF books ever written.

Roger Zelazny - the Amber series
- My favourite of his - Lord of Light.

One author that I buy anything he's written is Robert Sheckley. The master of the short story. Witty and brilliant.

Shabbaman
29-04-2003, 15:09
Then again, you had twice the time to collect and read them ;)

col
29-04-2003, 15:22
Exactly - I started buying seriously about 1972 when I went to uni. One of my friends was a budding SF writer. Another was a friend of Douglas Adams of Hitchhiker fame.

col
29-04-2003, 15:24
Ming - the mod on Poly is something of an authority too. We seem to have similar tastes in books. He knows Zelazny.

DrAlimentado
29-04-2003, 16:45
Hmmm, lots of good taste round here! I'll second Frank Herbert (although as Col says the later Dune stuff kind of loses it), John Brunner and Philip K.Dick are also both excellent choices.

some more Philip K.Dick recommendations:

The 3 stigmata of Palmer Eldritch
Do Androids dream of Electric Sheep
A Scanner Darkly
The Man in the High Castle
The Divine Invasion
Flow my Tears the Policeman cried


I have another recomendation from an author you might be surprised by... Doris Lessing's 'Canopus In Argos:Archives' novel cycle. The style changes wildly between novels but I'd say 3/5 of them are absolute classics. The first one is 're:colonised planet 5, Shikasta' and is written as a series of documents by an interplanetry/interdimensional being over a period of 20,000 years. Highly recommended :D

anarres, when you eventually come visit the south coast I can lend you about half the books in this thread ;)

Melifluous
29-04-2003, 17:01
I eat books for a living Col, so I nearly have as many books as you and will never ever let any more go...

I got evicted from a house in 1996 and lost me entire book collection so I been buying and storing them since then...

Wanna read some nice trashy SF? How about the Lensman Series by E.E. "Doc" Smith. Trash, but absolute classics...
I love all that "When the going gets tough, the tough gets going (and the women make sandwiches or faint...)
Super! Cosmic!
Go get em Galactic Patrol!

Or for SF comedy its hard to beat Harry Harrison and his books about Bill the Galactic Hero or the Stainless Steel Rat...
Just the right blend of cheese, heroism and very very big dollops of sarcasm...

Melifluous

col
29-04-2003, 17:37
Hey - I lurve the lensman series - except for the last one - Masters of the Vortex. What was that all about. A bit of an addon if you ask me. I love the Skylark series too. I reall yenjoy space opera.

Harry harrison too of course. Slippery Jim McGris.

smalltalk
30-04-2003, 01:03
col: finally I saw someone mentioning Alfred Bester! He really writes up to his name!

Best new book a came about was Joan Slonczewski: Brain Plague. This book is everything what Greg Bears' Blood Music was not! It is hardcore SF and still has a very warm feeling and a social concern.

Anyone remember David I. Masson? There was a small collection of his time-travel stories, featuring 'The Two-Timer', about a 16th century man hijacking a time-machine and travelling into our time.

Also, Gregory Benford's Cosm comes to my mind.

And a love David Brin, despite the fact he often goes to excessive length, and despite the fact that the new Uplift book are rather unreadable, his 'Uplift War' is amazing.

(I'll have to browse my shelf to came up with more...)

Shabbaman
30-04-2003, 16:37
Bester, that's that psicorps dude from babylon 5 right ;)

Shabbaman
28-08-2005, 23:47
As to revive this thread, I finished "Olympos" by the aforementioned Dan Simmons while I was on holiday. It's the sequel to the brilliant "Ilium". It's bizarre, nice for those who enjoyed greek mythology.

Notice that the first title is the roman word for troy and the second title is the greek word for mount olympus

ProPain
28-08-2005, 23:55
Didnt find that one in the bookstores yet[aargh]. Still havent found Hard Freeze and Hard as Nails either, guess a major order at the local book store is in order now.

bed_head7
29-08-2005, 00:29
Zelazny gets a recommendation? On what grounds?

Darkness
29-08-2005, 00:38
Ah fanstasy/sci fi books....

I've got a whole bookcase filled with that... [blush2]
Some fo my favourites:

-Robin Hobb (Farseer trilogy, Liveship traders trilogy, Tawny man trilogy)
-Robert Jordan (The Wheel of Time)
-Tad Williams (Memory, Sorrow and Thorn series, Otherland series, The War of the Flowers)
-Raymond Feist (All the novels/series playing on the world "Midkemia")
-David Eddings (the Belgariad, the Mallorean, the Elenium, the Tamuli)
-Julian May (The Exiles, The Galactic milieu, Intervention)
-Jane Welch (Runespell trilogy, Book of Ond trilogy)
-Jennifer Fallon (Second sons trilogy, Demon child trilogy)
-Roger Zelazny (Amber series)
-Frank Herbert/Brian Herbert (Dune and the prequels)
-Ian Irvine (The view from the mirror)

The only series I have that was a huge disappointment to me was Tolkiens' The Lord of the Rings...

Rik Meleet
29-08-2005, 02:53
Darkness:
Jordan, Williams, Herbert, Irvine ??? Are you watching too much F1 ?

DrAlimentado
29-08-2005, 03:30
ooh, I really liked Illium, I'll be paying a trip to the bookshop tomorrow :)

(and having a late night finishing Iain M.Banks 'the algebraist' in readiness :D)

DrAlimentado
29-08-2005, 03:31
Lord of the Rings was a dissappointment to you??

I guess there's no sense recomending the Simarillion to you then...

Darkness
29-08-2005, 09:32
quote:Originally posted by DrAlimentado


Lord of the Rings was a dissappointment to you??

I guess there's no sense recomending the Simarillion to you then...


Nah, I've got the Silmarillion (and the Hobbit, BTW) too. The Silmarillion is basically just a collection of descriptions from the past. Not my idea of a fun book.
The Hobbit is Tolkiens best book, IMHO...

col
29-08-2005, 12:29
Just finished The Algebraist on holiday - sipping a cocktail on the deck of the QM2 outside Cannes. Not one of Banks' best, methinks.

I couldnt get into Ilium. maybe I'll go back and give it another try.

Pastorius
30-08-2005, 10:56
I cant be arsed to read any sci fi these days. Last I can remember reading was "Dune" (called Sand in the Norwegian translation). I bet you ve read it already

Melifluous
30-08-2005, 13:38
quote:Originally posted by Darkness

Ah fanstasy/sci fi books....

I've got a whole bookcase filled with that... [blush2]
Some fo my favourites:

-Robin Hobb (Farseer trilogy, Liveship traders trilogy, Tawny man trilogy)
-Robert Jordan (The Wheel of Time)
-Tad Williams (Memory, Sorrow and Thorn series, Otherland series, The War of the Flowers)
-Raymond Feist (All the novels/series playing on the world "Midkemia")
-David Eddings (the Belgariad, the Mallorean, the Elenium, the Tamuli)
-Julian May (The Exiles, The Galactic milieu, Intervention)
-Jane Welch (Runespell trilogy, Book of Ond trilogy)
-Jennifer Fallon (Second sons trilogy, Demon child trilogy)
-Roger Zelazny (Amber series)
-Frank Herbert/Brian Herbert (Dune and the prequels)
-Ian Irvine (The view from the mirror)

The only series I have that was a huge disappointment to me was Tolkiens' The Lord of the Rings...


Darkness you just quoted all of my favourite books.

You only missed out 2 though...

-David Eddings (Belgariad and Mallorean)
and
-Stephen Donaldson (The Chronicles of Thomas Covenant)

I have to also add
-E. E. Doc Smith (Galactic Patrol, cheesy sci-fi at its best)
-Piers Anthony (His sci-fi and his cheesy pun-fest of Xanth)

and finally ANYTHING by ISAAC ASIMOV

the man was a genius.

Melifluous

Banzai
30-08-2005, 13:53
What about the bible? http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/banzai/200583012538_hypocrite.gif

Darkness
30-08-2005, 14:09
quote:Originally posted by Melifluous

quote:Originally posted by Darkness

Ah fanstasy/sci fi books....

I've got a whole bookcase filled with that...
Some fo my favourites:

-Robin Hobb (Farseer trilogy, Liveship traders trilogy, Tawny man trilogy)
-Robert Jordan (The Wheel of Time)
-Tad Williams (Memory, Sorrow and Thorn series, Otherland series, The War of the Flowers)
-Raymond Feist (All the novels/series playing on the world "Midkemia")
-David Eddings ([b]the Belgariad, the Mallorean, the Elenium, the Tamuli)
-Julian May (The Exiles, The Galactic milieu, Intervention)
-Jane Welch (Runespell trilogy, Book of Ond trilogy)
-Jennifer Fallon (Second sons trilogy, Demon child trilogy)
-Roger Zelazny (Amber series)
-Frank Herbert/Brian Herbert (Dune and the prequels)
-Ian Irvine (The view from the mirror)

The only series I have that was a huge disappointment to me was Tolkiens' The Lord of the Rings...


Darkness you just quoted all of my favourite books.

You only missed out 2 though...

-David Eddings (Belgariad and Mallorean)
and
-Stephen Donaldson (The Chronicles of Thomas Covenant)


Ah, Meli, look again please... ;)

You're right about Donaldson though. I forgot him. I also have the Covenant chronicles (1&2), they are OK, but not that good, IMHO...

romeothemonk
30-08-2005, 16:56
I happen to like Steven Lawhead's books. They are all kinda similar in dealing with Celtic Mythology, but are all in my opinion very good.
I do not believe that the bible falls under the Sci/Fi fantasy catergorization. Even if you happen to think it does, it is filed under a completely different Dewey Decimal Code than Sci/Fi Fantasy.

Darkness
30-08-2005, 17:00
quote:Originally posted by romeothemonk


I do not believe that the bible falls under the Sci/Fi fantasy catergorization. Even if you happen to think it does, it is filed under a completely different Dewey Decimal Code than Sci/Fi Fantasy.


Everybody makes mistakes, even the people filing books under some sort of code... ;)

Mistfit
30-08-2005, 17:01
Snow Crash: by Neal Stephenson

Not an Epic by any stretch but one of my favorite Sci-Fi books.

You guys have hit many of the books that I've read within the last 6 months.

Thomas Covenant
All 3 trilo's from Robbin Hobbs

Edit:
Oh I almost forgot
LE Modesitt, Jr. The Order Wars (Stories of Recluse)

Edit #2:
American Gods ~ Neil Gaiman Very Funny book good story as well

Banzai
30-08-2005, 17:33
quote:Originally posted by romeothemonk

I do not believe that the bible falls under the Sci/Fi fantasy catergorization. Even if you happen to think it does, it is filed under a completely different Dewey Decimal Code than Sci/Fi Fantasy.

I don't think it falls under the Sci/Fi fantasy category either, but I thought it was appropriate as Anarres started this thread:
http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=3024

:D

romeothemonk
30-08-2005, 18:00
Yeah, I know the thread. This is a minor threadjacking, but I just thought I would point it out and see the reaction.
You guys are really well read for all the time you spend on the computer. I am impressed.

smalltalk
30-08-2005, 22:37
Voyage from Yesteryear

Besides "The Dispossesed" there is another anarchist sf novel, written by James P. Hogan. Hogan is not as good a writer as LeGuin is, and his plot is much more straight forward but the story is amusing.

Earth is on its decline, so a spaceship is sent out to colonize the next star system. As the live support system couldn't handle passengers, only embryos are sent, to be later breed, raised an educated by the ship's computer. Fifty years later, another spaceship from earth arrives to reclaim the colony for earth. Of course the locals, who are living in an anarchist post-scarcity society, deal with them in their own way ...


Software/Wetware/Freeware/Realware

Electro hippie stuff by Rudy Rucker about machine intelligent boppers, who run a colony on the moon, about their scions and new emerges, about moldies and wetbobs, silly-puters, the uuvy and the aller. And about getting boozed or high.

Swingue
31-08-2005, 01:45
He Darkness, do you also know the manycoloured land by Julian May, trilogy as well, i really enjoyed reading that.

Darkness
31-08-2005, 09:35
quote:Originally posted by Swingue

He Darkness, do you also know the manycoloured land by Julian May, trilogy as well, i really enjoyed reading that.



Actally Swingue, that's not a trilogy. "The manycoloured land is the first book of "the Saga of the Exiles" (4 books), in which Marc Remillard and his rebels are exiled in the Pliocene era... ;)

So, yeah, I know it. Good series, though I liked the "Galactic Milieu" series better.

Energy
31-08-2005, 12:49
For fantasy:

- Steven Erikson: Malazin Empire
- China Mieville: Scar
- Steph Swainston: The year of our war
- George Martin: Song of ice and fire; Fever dreams

On contrary of what has been in this tread before:
- Robert Jordan: Big no no after book 3 or 4
- Hobb: Quite disappointing endings of the story

Swingue
31-08-2005, 17:26
quote:Originally posted by Darkness

quote:Originally posted by Swingue

He Darkness, do you also know the manycoloured land by Julian May, trilogy as well, i really enjoyed reading that.



Actally Swingue, that's not a trilogy. "The manycoloured land is the first book of "the Saga of the Exiles" (4 books), in which Marc Remillard and his rebels are exiled in the Pliocene era... ;)

So, yeah, I know it. Good series, though I liked the "Galactic Milieu" series better.


[blush] ah, great, means I missed one book. Curious about the Galactic Milieu then.

Darkness
07-02-2006, 19:59
[bump]

So, how 'bout Harry Potter?

Any of you ever read the books?

I'm doing so at the moment (reading book 6 now) and they're actually quite nice. Not anywhere near as good as the series I listed on the first page of this thread, but still quite amusing to read.

barbu1977
07-02-2006, 20:58
Ha my little friend harry.

I realy enjoyed 1-4.
I was quite disapointed with 5.
6 was nice, but the magic and humour are gone.

I'm still going to read the last one when it comes out.

akots
07-02-2006, 21:15
I've read the books and saw the movies. Not so horrible but really, not worth it unless you are 10-15 years old.

romeothemonk
07-02-2006, 22:29
For fun, I reccommend the book Big Trouble by Dave Barry.
It isn't really sci/fi but I really enjoyed it. It skewers American culture similar to Douglas Adams getting after English culture.

Not really worth buying, but most libraries should have a copy.

Shabbaman
07-02-2006, 23:55
I'm working my way through the Night's dawn trilogy by Peter F. Hamilton. Great stuff! There's an American Bookstore here in The Hague, I finally managed to pick up P.K. Dick's Man in a high tower. Pure brilliance.

Energy
08-02-2006, 10:42
Ah, I've been in that bookstore once. They have great stuff there. Too bad I don't visit The Hague to often.

I enjoy reading HP. Book 6 builds up to a nice climax. Rowling gets extra points for 1) Killing of your main characters and 2) not giving in on her own hype and keep on adding book after boring book to the serie, like for example Jordan does (Did I already mention that I don't like him? [crazyeye]). HP is also very nice if you like Greek Methology.

Who likes to place a bet?
1) HP kills Voldemort and lives happy ever after
2) HP gets killed
3) HP kills himself

My guess is that is not gonna be the first one..

Shabbaman
08-02-2006, 10:49
Maybe he turns to the dark side of the force.

Darkness
08-02-2006, 11:24
quote:Originally posted by Energy


Who likes to place a bet?
1) HP kills Voldemort and lives happy ever after
2) HP gets killed
3) HP kills himself

My guess is that is not gonna be the first one..


Tough one....

The prophecy about Harry and Voldemort says one of them has to die, so that the other can live...
Considering this started out as a childrens' book series, I'm quessing the "good" will defeat the "bad" at the end, so my guess is that Harry will live after killing Voldemort.
The more logical conclusion is that someone close to him will have to die for Harry to be able to kill Voldemort (and survive). Sacrifice out of love, etc. ...
Prime candidates: Ron, Hermione and Ginny.

My money would be on Ginny.
Rowling has already spent six books matching two couples. Ron will end up with Hermione, and Harry with Ginny. So, Ginny will be closest to him, and she'll have to die (love vs. hate principle) so Harry can kill Voldemort.


@Shabba: The ABC is great! [goodjob] I always thought Donner (big bookstore on the Lijnbaan in Rotterdam) had a huge collection of fantasy/sci-fi, but the first time I entered the ABC it was quite clear that they have at least 50% more! :)

Shabbaman
08-02-2006, 12:46
It comes with a price though. The store is definately not cheap. If you can get a "normal" bookstore to order it for you it's most likely cheaper.

Darkness
08-02-2006, 13:00
quote:Originally posted by Shabbaman

It comes with a price though. The store is definately not cheap. If you can get a "normal" bookstore to order it for you it's most likely cheaper.


That's true. Unfortunately... :(
But the store's definately useful if you can't find the book you want anywhere else...

Shabbaman
08-02-2006, 13:03
quote:Originally posted by Darkness

But the store's definately useful if you can't find the book you want anywhere else...


Quoted for thruthery ;)

Energy
09-02-2006, 11:44
Aha, I talked to an expert about HP and he thinks that HP himself is one of the seven horacruxes. So, in order to kill Voldemort he will have to kill himself. [butcher]

Darkness
09-02-2006, 12:29
quote:Originally posted by Energy

Aha, I talked to an expert about HP and he thinks that HP himself is one of the seven horacruxes. So, in order to kill Voldemort he will have to kill himself. [butcher]


That's also a possibility. But, IIRC, it is never said outright that Harry is one of the horacruxes, while the prophecy readily implies survival for one of the two.

quote:Originally posted by The Prophecy

The one with the power to vanquish the Dark Lord approaches...born to those who have thrice defied him, born as the seventh month dies...and the Dark Lord will mark him as his equal, but he will have power the Dark Lord knows not...and either must die at the hand of the other for neither can live while the other survives...the one with the power to vanquish the Dark Lord will be born as the seventh month dies...

What does this say:

quote:The one with the power to vanquish the Dark Lord approaches...

This is easy: the one that can kill Voldemort will soon come

quote:born to those who have thrice defied him, born as the seventh month dies...

Also easy: His parents have obstructed Voldemort's plans three times, and he will be born at the end of july (last day?)

quote:and the Dark Lord will mark him as his equal, but he will have power the Dark Lord knows not...

Gets a bit more complicated, but: The first part obviously relates to the scar on Harry's head. The second part is about Harry having something that Voldemort does not. Dumbledore has referred to the power of love multiple times, and in the flashbacks in Half-Blood Prince, in which Voldemort's past is explored it becomes clearer that Voldemort is incapable of (and does not understand) love. It also hints toward Voldemort's first defeat, by Harry's mother, who sacrifces herself for her son out of love.

quote:and either must die at the hand of the other for neither can live while the other survives...

Toughest part: The way I read this is that one must kill the other because they can not both survive the final confrontation. There is no reference to both having to die:
Babelfish translates this part to:
quote:en één van beiden moet bij de hand van andere sterven want geen van beiden kunnen leven terwijl andere overleeft
Which also indicates that one of them will survive. But there is also no clear reference to survival, so Harry could very well end up dead as well...

quote:the one with the power to vanquish the Dark Lord will be born as the seventh month dies...

Repetition (in part) of the first two sentences.

So, in conclusion: The prophecy does not guarantee survival, but does hint at it.

When we're talking about the Horacruxes: They have to be destroyed for Voldemort to really die, so if Harry is one, than it could indeed be the case that Harry has to die. It would definately be an interesting conclusion to the book, however, since this really started out as a childrens book series (and most authors already know the end of the last book (in their heads) when the first book is published, I think it is unlikely that something like suicide will feature prominently in the conclusion.

Energy
09-02-2006, 13:06
The second reason the guy gave me is that HP is based on Greek Methology (I'm not an expert on this) and in lots of those stories the hero dies.

BTW he also claims to know who was the person who stole / destroyed the first of those horacruxes, namely Serius Black's brother.

Darkness
09-02-2006, 13:24
quote:Originally posted by Energy

The second reason the guy gave me is that HP is based on Greek Methology (I'm not an expert on this) and in lots of those stories the hero dies.

BTW he also claims to know who was the person who stole / destroyed the first of those horacruxes, namely Serius Black's brother.


I'm not an expert on Greek Mythology either, but as far as I can remember hero's dying is indeed a recurring theme there, so it is quite possible, of course...
But, what part of HP is based on Greek Mythology? I've heard that said before, but I can't really see it. I mean, there is the phoenix rising from its' ashes, but I couldn't really see more.
I may be wrong, of course. It's been a long time since I read the Iliad and the Odessey.

You mean R.A.B., right? Regulus A.? Black... That was my conclusion also. What does the A stand for anyway. There are some references in the books about him dying after trying to stop being a death eater, but never anything really conclusive, I think.

How about Dumbledore? Do you think he's really dead? Something about his body flying through the air after the curse hit him just doesn't seem right. I though Avada Kedavra left no marks on the victim, but if people hit by the curse are hurled away there are bound to be impact-marks on their corpses. Also, the fact that he said: "Severus, please..." like he was begging for his life just doesn't sit right with me. After all, this is the same man that said something about death only being the next great adventure (Philosophers stone) about Nicholas Flamel's upcoming death after he had lived for over 600 years.
And Snape? Still on the good side or not? It'd be a bit disappointing to see Rowling take the easy way out in creating a villain. I kinda liked the "Snape is on our side, even though he is a huge pain in the ass..." sentiment.

Energy
09-02-2006, 14:51
Right before Dumbledore dies, he says something (Can;t remember the text now) which Rowling already used a few pages before in the exact same way. This is very strange, though I donnot know why it happens. It does look like Dumbledore is indeed pleading to be killed, instead of the other way. An interesting fling to this all, is that Snape seems to know already that harry is there. When he walks outside he sees the two broomsticks lying there. That means that he actually had two oppertunities to kill Harry.

From a writer's perspective Rowling simply had to kill Dumbledore, the same as why Obi Wan Konobi was killed and Gandalf was delayed under the mountains. They're all in the way of the story, cause they are to powerful and the ending would be to simple. Dumbledore might return bak as a ghost, just like Sirius (Remember the mirror?) might.

And Black's brother indeed stopped being a deatheater and was killed for that. There is also a mention of a missing pendant somewhere in his house. He only seemed to think that there was only one horcrux, not seven.

Some of the Greek methology in HP (Yes, I had to look this up):

• Alastor - Greek God who sought revenge on people.
• Argus - In Greek mythology, Argus was a monster that had a hundred eyes and was ever-so-watchful
• Hermes - The Greek Messenger of the Gods. He was also Patron of Travellers and responsible for taking the dead to Hades.
• Hagrid - Name and tale comes from greek myth. The ancient Hagrid from the myth was the god of Jewels. This god was said to be the kindest of the gods, but Hades framed him for the death of Piraeus's - the killer of Medusa - son. Hagrid was banished from Olympus but Zues allowed him to stay as the watcher of the animals. And, the word haggard means "wild-looking".
• Minerva - In Roman and Greek (as Athena) Mythology, she was the Goddess of Wisdom. She gave strict punishments. She also was a very good weaver and could weave masterpiece tapestries. Once, a pompous mortal known as Arachny had wound up challenging Athena to a contest. Athena, in the end, transfigured Arachny into a creature that wove beautifully, but could never boast again: A spider.
• Nimbus - "Nimbus" means "cloud." Nimbus was also a god in Greek Mythology

• the giant three-headed watchdog: Cerberus
• Orpheus wanted to visit the underworld to see his dead wife. Using the lovely music of his harp, Orpheus sent Cerberus snoozing and walked right in.

• The lightning bolt on Harry's forehead was the symbol of Zues
• In Greek mythology, Hermione was the daughter of King Menelaus of Sparta and this famous beauty:
• When Helen sailed away with the Trojan prince Paris, she left behind nine-year-old Hermione, her only child

• The hippocampus—half horse, half sea-creature—appears not just in Harry Potter but pulling the chariot of this mythological ruler: Poseidon

• In The Goblet of Fire, Harry meets a sphinx who asks him a riddle. Which troubled mortal in Greek mythology meets a sphinx and solves her riddle?
• Here's the riddle Oedipus solved: What walks on four legs in the morning, two legs at noon, and three legs in the evening? (The answer: a human. People crawl as babies, walk on two legs in adulthood, and rely on a cane in old age.)

• Centaurs roam the Forbidden Forest by Hogwarts. In Greek mythology, centaurs are half man and half horse

Darkness
09-02-2006, 16:01
quote:Originally posted by Energy



Some of the Greek methology in HP (Yes, I had to look this up):

• Alastor - Greek God who sought revenge on people.
• Argus - In Greek mythology, Argus was a monster that had a hundred eyes and was ever-so-watchful
• Hermes - The Greek Messenger of the Gods. He was also Patron of Travellers and responsible for taking the dead to Hades.
• Hagrid - Name and tale comes from greek myth. The ancient Hagrid from the myth was the god of Jewels. This god was said to be the kindest of the gods, but Hades framed him for the death of Piraeus's - the killer of Medusa - son. Hagrid was banished from Olympus but Zues allowed him to stay as the watcher of the animals. And, the word haggard means "wild-looking".
• Minerva - In Roman and Greek (as Athena) Mythology, she was the Goddess of Wisdom. She gave strict punishments. She also was a very good weaver and could weave masterpiece tapestries. Once, a pompous mortal known as Arachny had wound up challenging Athena to a contest. Athena, in the end, transfigured Arachny into a creature that wove beautifully, but could never boast again: A spider.
• Nimbus - "Nimbus" means "cloud." Nimbus was also a god in Greek Mythology

• the giant three-headed watchdog: Cerberus
• Orpheus wanted to visit the underworld to see his dead wife. Using the lovely music of his harp, Orpheus sent Cerberus snoozing and walked right in.

• The lightning bolt on Harry's forehead was the symbol of Zues
• In Greek mythology, Hermione was the daughter of King Menelaus of Sparta and this famous beauty:
• When Helen sailed away with the Trojan prince Paris, she left behind nine-year-old Hermione, her only child

• The hippocampus—half horse, half sea-creature—appears not just in Harry Potter but pulling the chariot of this mythological ruler: Poseidon

• In The Goblet of Fire, Harry meets a sphinx who asks him a riddle. Which troubled mortal in Greek mythology meets a sphinx and solves her riddle?
• Here's the riddle Oedipus solved: What walks on four legs in the morning, two legs at noon, and three legs in the evening? (The answer: a human. People crawl as babies, walk on two legs in adulthood, and rely on a cane in old age.)

• Centaurs roam the Forbidden Forest by Hogwarts. In Greek mythology, centaurs are half man and half horse



Right. I never looked at the Greek mythology part that closely. Looks like some pretty heavy "borrowing"/inspiration... ;)

Shabbaman
09-02-2006, 16:13
Longest. Post. Ever.

Must. Refrain. From. Making. Derogatory. Comment.

Anyway, if you haven't read any greek mythology aside from the iliad and odyssea, than I'd recomment to get some short greek stories. That's the true classics. Didn't we have a top 10 must read here somewhere?

Swingue
09-02-2006, 18:01
quote:Originally posted by Energy

Aha, I talked to an expert about HP and he thinks that HP himself is one of the seven horacruxes. So, in order to kill Voldemort he will have to kill himself. [butcher]


For some strange reason i believe Neville is one of the horacruxes. In one of the earlier books it is mentioned that Voldemort can only die if the other also dies (or something like that). At that moment both Harry and Neville fitted the picture.
My guess is that Neville will die and Voldemort with him, making Harry the winner of all.

Energy
10-02-2006, 09:21
quote:Originally posted by Swingue

For some strange reason i believe Neville is one of the horacruxes.


Have you been drinking again?? [beer1]

Darkness
06-03-2006, 11:36
Another Fantasy recommendation:

Jennifer Fallon

I've read two trilogies of hers so far, and they were both highliy enjoyable. "Second sons trilogy" and the "Demon child trilogy". The first one is more politics and religion based, the second is more about sorcery and the supernatural.

barbu1977
02-05-2006, 16:36
Some of my most entertaining readings in the last few years were Shogun (James Clavel) and the 13th Warrior (Crichton) and realy enjoyed both of them

And I'm looking for another historic, epic novel that can be read in a bus.

Does any one have one they'd like to recommend?

Shabbaman
02-05-2006, 16:39
Pillars of the earh, by Ken Follett? Decent read.

barbu1977
02-05-2006, 20:11
Thanks for the tip. I'll try it.
It must be nice since out of 4 copies at my local library, 3 are out for the moment. For a 1990 book, thats good.

Energy
03-05-2006, 16:40
I just finished Steven Erikson's Bonehunters. This is really one of the very few series that keeps on getting better and better with every book!

barbu1977
18-07-2006, 06:35
quote:Originally posted by Shabbaman

Pillars of the earh, by Ken Follett? Decent read.


Thanks for the tip, it was quite enjoyable.

Shabbaman
18-07-2006, 08:41
Glad to hear that. I've found it enjoyable as well. That can't be said of any of Follett's other books though, unfortunately...

Some weeks ago I finished the A night's dawn (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Night%27s_Dawn_Trilogy)trilogy by Peter F. Hamilton. Very good scifi, but a bit bizarre.

Darkness
18-07-2006, 10:22
Terry Brooks is also a good read. Though he "borrowed" quite a lot of inspiration from Tolkien, his books playing in the "Shannara world" are nice.

Kingreno
31-07-2006, 09:53
I've just finished "Mao" bij Yung Chang. It's, as the title makes one suspect, a Biography about Mao Zedong. The story is amazing and describes a history which is not very well known by the western world. If you have interest in World Politics and a bit in China this is very well worth the read. How one man killed 70 Million people; his OWN people.

Darkness
31-07-2006, 10:21
quote:Originally posted by Kingreno

How one man killed 70 Million people; his OWN people.


IIRC that puts him even beyond Stalin, doesn't it??? [devil2]

Kingreno
31-07-2006, 10:34
Oh by far...

bed_head7
01-08-2006, 01:01
On a history forum I once frequented, there was a link in to a web site that used a few different methods to count up the number of deaths for which Hitler, Stalin, and Mao were responsible, with each method giving different numerical results and "winners." Unfortunately, I cannot seem to find it again with a quick google search, though I did find some other interesting articles.

Darkness
02-08-2006, 12:11
Wikipedia sets Stalin at 15-20 million deaths and Hitler at 11 million, so Mao seems to be the runaway leader here.

Kingreno
02-08-2006, 13:16
Makes you wonder why the former has been a no-no in all the civ-series! Stalin is sort'a no-no, being only a leader in civ 1, and in the warlord expansion, as well as being a Great Mili leader in civ3. Mao however is in all series...

Darkness
02-08-2006, 14:13
quote:Originally posted by Kingreno

Makes you wonder why the former has been a no-no in all the civ-series! Stalin is sort'a no-no, being only a leader in civ 1, and in the warlord expansion, as well as being a Great Mili leader in civ3. Mao however is in all series...


Not really. It's all about perception. By the vast majority of Western people Hitler is seen as the biggest mass murderer/criminal of modern history. They simply don't know about Mao (and Stalin to a lesser extent), because they are taught all about WW2 at school, but not about Chinese and/or Russian internal politics.

bed_head7
03-08-2006, 02:27
Right. Also, while by Wikipedia's count Hitler has 11 million, if you consider Hitler responsible for all European and African theater WW2 deaths, then his death count shoots up about 20 million or so.

Shabbaman
03-08-2006, 09:16
You could also hold the treaty of Versailles responsible for WW2, so then you can blame the americans ;)

grahamiam
01-02-2007, 18:36
The Road by Cormac McCarthy. Read it on Monday and could not put it down. About the end of the world via nuclear war and a Father/Son trying to survive the aftermath.

Teaser excerpt (2 pages from it):
quote:old handmade cherrywood chifforobe. He climbed the stairs and walked through the bedrooms. Everything covered with ash. A child's room with a stuffed dog on the windowsill looking out at the garden. He went through the closets. He stripped back the beds and came away with two good woolen blankets and went back down the stairs. In the pantry were three jars of homecanned tomatoes. He blew the dust from the lids and studied them. Someone before him had not trusted them and in the end neither did he and he walked out with the blankets over his shoulder and they set off along the road again.

On the outskirts of the city they came to a supermarket. A few old cars in the trashstrewn parking lot. They left the cart in the lot and walked the littered aisles. In the produce section in the bottom of the bins they found a few ancient runner beans and what looked to have once been apricots, long dried to wrinkled effigies of themselves. The boy followed behind. They pushed out through the rear door. In the alleyway behind the store a few shopping carts, all badly rusted. They went back through the store again looking for another cart but there were none. By the door were two softdrink machines that had been tilted over into the floor and opened with a prybar. Coins everywhere in the ash. He sat and ran his hand around in the works of the gutted machines and in the second one it closed over a cold metal cylinder. He withdrew his hand slowly and sat looking at a Coca Cola.

What is it, Papa?

It's a treat. For you.

What is it?

Here. Sit down.

He slipped the boy's knapsack straps loose and set the pack on the floor behind him and he put his thumbnail under the aluminum clip on the top of the can and opened it. He leaned his nose to the slight fizz coming from the can and then handed it to the boy. Go ahead, he said.

The boy took the can. It's bubbly, he said.

Go ahead.

He looked at his father and then tilted the can and drank. He sat there thinking about it. It's really good, he said.

Yes. It is.

You have some, Papa.

I want you to drink it.

You have some.

He took the can and sipped it and handed it back. You drink it, he said. Let's just sit here.

It's because I wont ever get to drink another one, isnt it?

Ever's a long time.

Okay, the boy said.

By dusk of the day following they were at the city. The long concrete sweeps of the interstate exchanges like the ruins of a vast funhouse against the distant murk. He carried the revolver in his belt at the front and wore his parka unzipped. The mummied dead everywhere. The flesh cloven along the bones, the ligaments dried to tug and taut as wires. Shriveled and drawn like latterday bogfolk, their faces of boiled sheeting, the yellowed palings of their teeth.

Tubby Rower
01-02-2007, 18:45
I've been listening to the unabridged CD's of the Harry Potter series and am 2 CD's from the end of the half-blood prince. all told there were 80 CD's which equates to ~ 93 hours of time. There is no way I could have read them all in that amount of time.

I started with these because the new book's title was released and I understood that there was more in the books than in the movies. and there is. I noticed today in the news that the last book is to be released on July 21 of this year.

BCLG100
01-02-2007, 19:11
yeh tubs, some shops are even letting you pre order your copy now.

whilst i do want to read the book im not going to be going to extreme lengths to get ahold of it.

Tubby Rower
01-02-2007, 19:12
I think that I'll wait until the local library gets the audio book. I'm lazy [:p]

BCLG100
01-02-2007, 19:16
:lol: id be surprised if there wasnt some way of streaming it from the internet as either a podcast or something similar.

grahamiam
12-04-2007, 15:54
Kurt Vonnegut, RIP :(

Tubby Rower
18-07-2007, 17:28
since there's only a couple of days left... is anyone gonna get the HP 7 book? I'm almost contemplating it. But I might wait for the audio books to come out as that guy reads a heck of a lot quicker than I do. I'd likely finish it in December if I had to read it myself. With the audio book, I can listen to it while I work where as I can't read it except in my "office" while I'm doing my "paperwork"

barbu1977
18-07-2007, 17:51
I'm getting it. I might also get the pirated vesion on the net (if it's the real version), that way my GF and I don't have to fight about who's turn it is to read.

BCLG100
18-07-2007, 19:54
Two copies have been ordered for our household for when the rest of my family go on holiday. I'll probably read it before they go away.

Darkness
18-07-2007, 21:49
quote:Originally posted by Tubby Rower

since there's only a couple of days left... is anyone gonna get the HP 7 book?

[wavey]

BCLG100
21-07-2007, 20:42
finished reading it about 2 hours ago- it was excellant.

bed_head7
22-07-2007, 00:38
I feel sort of empty now that it is done. Though the fact that my dreams in the four hours of sleep I got were a strange mix of events in the last book and color-color diagrams may contribute to my feeling somewhat odd today.

BCLG100
22-07-2007, 00:50
I know what you mean, its weird- i can remember reading the first couple of books before the hype really took off and these have stretched ~half my life i think. The whole thing is over- especially as she's said she probably wont write another HP related book.

bed_head7
22-07-2007, 03:25
Yeah, it is just about half my life too. I can still remember the weekend when I was eleven and read the first three books, and then I guess a year or so later the weekend when the fourth one came out. It feels so far away in one sense, but I guess I got to go back to that time for a few hours last night. Now though, it has been closed off, and I become a little bit more separated from my youth. I suppose at this point I really just need to find something else to do rather than sit alone, drowning in feelings of nostalgia and melancholy.

romeothemonk
22-07-2007, 23:43
quote:Originally posted by bed_head7

I suppose at this point I really just need to find something else to do rather than sit alone, drowning in feelings of nostalgia and melancholy.


Man, it sounds like someone needs to discover beer.

bed_head7
23-07-2007, 01:00
Perhaps. That wound up coming out rather more depressed sounding than I expected.

BCLG100
23-07-2007, 01:36
[lol] it's why i stopped posting, didnt want to send you over the edge.

bed_head7
24-07-2007, 07:41
Don't worry, I am no where close to any edges. I suppose occasionally slightly melodramatic, but fairly emotionally stable.

Anyway, to change the topic, has anyone read The Naked and the Dead? I have wanted to discuss a few things with someone, but I have not yet found anyone who has read it.

barbu1977
31-08-2007, 17:24
I finnished HP7 a couple weeks ago. Nice way to end the series.

Now, I need suggestions for a good historical novel.

Historical novel I recently read and liked.
- The Aztek
- Shogun
- The 13th Warrior
- Pillars of the earth

Anybody?

grahamiam
31-08-2007, 17:47
Tai-Pan? Also by Clavell.

Whomp
31-08-2007, 19:30
A friend of mine just wrote a book "From Fantasy Football to Fatherhood" by Douglas H. Hall.

He mocks all of us incessantly. He's a very funny guy and I'm looking forward to reading it.

BCLG100
31-08-2007, 20:34
I'm just about to start the second year of uni, studying these four topics

Medieval England- 1066-1400
American History- Civil war+reconstruction
Early Modern England- (war of the roses-Glorious revolution)
World History- 1450-1750

So if anyone knows any books relating to them which they think will be good, give me a shout! :)

@barbu i've just finished a few weeks ago reading Kublai Khan by John Man, was excellent, really interesting. Have been looking for his Genghis Khan and Attila the hun. I've just finished reading a few days ago, 'A Persian Fire:the first world empire, Battle for the West' by Tom Holland, really interesting book, opened up that era of history to me that 300 left out- first of all being that there were close to 5000 of them there!

Right now im reading- 'Constantinople- The last great Siege, 1453' by Roger Crowley- quite interesting, though i imagine it could be a bit boring if you weren't into that era of history, basically showing the first uses of what became modern artillery and the siege etc.

Beam
31-08-2007, 21:04
Simon you can use Wikipedia as a starting point as it usually has quite a number of references to sites and literature.

Out of curiosity. Why 1450 and 1750 in your World History topic? I can think of some reasons of course like 1450 being in the end of the Dark Ages and the beginning of the Age of Discovery but the Renaissance was already well on it's way in Italy. And 1750 just before the Industrial Revolution but excluding American Independence and the French Revolution just a few decades later.

BCLG100
31-08-2007, 21:25
Oh, thats a good idea but if anyone actually knows some good books that'd be good- i've got loads of unreadable books out of the library before- not fun :(

Well 1450 was the start of the gunpowder revoultion and the formation of nation states similar to what we see today. An example is the book im reading right now, siege of constantinople- one of the first major uses of cannons to actually do something the end of the hundred years war is another example, taken from wikipedia, '1453 Battle of Castillon Jean Bureau defeats Talbot to end the Hundred Years' War. This was also the first battle in European history where the use of cannon was a major factor in determining the victor.'

The dark ages i don't think is the reason for the start date as these ended a few hundred years earlier (starting at the decline of the Western Roman Empire), this is World History and it wasnt all that dark for Non Europeans during that time :). So i fully understand the start date, the end date i can only speculate- maybe it's to get an idea of the climate before the industrial revolution and the American Revolutionary wars/civil war/French Revolutions etc.

Whomp
31-08-2007, 21:45
Simon--Ken Burns did a documentary on the American Civil War and it's used quite a bit in classrooms today. Very well done.

He's actually doing a series on the American condition during WWII in September. It should be interesting because it will be based on four towns. Mobile, Alabama (shipping industry and civil rights at the time), Sacramento (heavy Japanese population), a upper middle class town on the east coast (brass products) and a rural town in Minnesota. All the footage will be real and not staged like we see on History channel. No historians or Generals but more about the people who fought and sacrificed at home.

Tubby Rower
31-08-2007, 21:48
quote:Originally posted by Whomp

A friend of mine just wrote a book "From Fantasy Football to Fatherhood" by Douglas H. Hall.

He mocks all of us incessantly. He's a very funny guy and I'm looking forward to reading it.
It sounds like he's reading these forums. [lol] Did he mention any of us?

Whomp
31-08-2007, 21:59
quote:Originally posted by Tubby Rower

quote:Originally posted by Whomp

A friend of mine just wrote a book "From Fantasy Football to Fatherhood" by Douglas H. Hall.

He mocks all of us incessantly. He's a very funny guy and I'm looking forward to reading it.
It sounds like he's reading these forums. [lol] Did he mention any of us?
Hehe. He did yesterday since he's in town from California. He asked how the Zulus are doing.


I get a lot of abuse and dish it right back. Here's a little excerpt...

"Bernie's preparedness has often served him well and he often shows up at the draft with more information than a counterterrorism official at a Al Qaeda Lalapollozza festival"....

later about the women in my life explaining why I won't win the big one (though I have a few times)....

"Not when he keeps insisting on letting women run his life, take away his freedom of speech and thought, and leave him mumbling to himself like a 5th Avenue wino".


Here's the Amazon link. He sent the book to Oprah and Tiger Woods since he's a father now. The book is also about how having a child truly changed his life.

http://www.amazon.com/Fantasy-Football-Fatherhood-Douglas-Scott/dp/0805986952/ref=sr_1_1/103-7711146-0738251?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1188487162&sr=8-1

romeothemonk
31-08-2007, 23:21
ON the historical fiction side, I have really enjoyed Harry Turtledoves WorldWar series, and I am just now finishing up his Southern Victory series.
I realize that his literary skills are probably only a 5, but the concept is fresh and loaded with enough fact to keep me interested and thinking hard about several things.
Most notably is my theory that Roosevelt with Social Security ended the proclivity of States to rebel, especially the southern states, as they draw more heavily on government assistance. With close to half of the population on the federal dole revolt becomes nearly unelectable.

Anyway, you can check his stuff out here.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harry_Turtledove

killercane
31-08-2007, 23:58
quote:Originally posted by romeothemonk

ON the historical fiction side, I have really enjoyed Harry Turtledoves WorldWar series, and I am just now finishing up his Southern Victory series.
I realize that his literary skills are probably only a 5, but the concept is fresh and loaded with enough fact to keep me interested and thinking hard about several things.
Most notably is my theory that Roosevelt with Social Security ended the proclivity of States to rebel, especially the southern states, as they draw more heavily on government assistance. With close to half of the population on the federal dole revolt becomes nearly unelectable.

Anyway, you can check his stuff out here.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harry_Turtledove

I read Turtledove's WWI era "2nd American Civil War" book after finding it in a bin at a used book store. Certainly not a literary masterpiece but interesting in how he contemplates world politics in the What if? atmosphere. IIRC, he had the South allied with Germany, Mexico, and Austro Hungary and went into trench warfare and how it (would have) affected the States.

Shabbaman
21-02-2008, 05:10
When I was looking for a book to read I came across the brand new sequel to Pillars of the earth. I'm through 200 pages now, and so far it's pretty good. The book is quite big and heavy though, I hope it fits in my backpack for the way home. Otherwise anyone interested can pick it up for free in Christchurch.

Darkness
14-08-2008, 15:05
So, did any of you know that Robert Jordan has been dead since september 2007, or was I really the only one that missed it...???

Apparently the "Wheel of Time" will now be finished by Brandon Sanderson (anybody know him?), with the 12th book coming sometime next year...

Aggie
14-08-2008, 17:01
I hope that George RR Martin lives to finish his work on A Song of Ice and Fire...

romeothemonk
15-08-2008, 14:15
quote:Originally posted by Darkness

So, did any of you know that Robert Jordan has been dead since september 2007, or was I really the only one that missed it...???

Apparently the "Wheel of Time" will now be finished by Brandon Sanderson (anybody know him?), with the 12th book coming sometime next year...


Actually, many of the fans of Jordan that I know contend that he has been dead since book 7, and his wife wrote a couple of clunkers, then realized she was killing it, and outsourced.

I am looking forward to book 12. Scuttlebutt on the Net says that it should be over 1400 pages, but that still would have to be fast paced to tie up all the subplots.

Shabbaman
15-08-2008, 14:40
Who? (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brandon_Sanderson) Apparently I'll have to put the Mistborn trilogy on my reading list.

Mistfit
20-08-2008, 15:13
Sabriel by Garth Nix is good.. 3 books in the series and a living author.. also Shades Children is a pretty decent sci fi by the same author

ProPain
20-08-2008, 16:02
quote:Originally posted by Shabbaman

When I was looking for a book to read I came across the brand new sequel to Pillars of the earth. I'm through 200 pages now, and so far it's pretty good. The book is quite big and heavy though, I hope it fits in my backpack for the way home. Otherwise anyone interested can pick it up for free in Christchurch.


Read Pillars of earth last month but for some strange reason my local bookshop (where I biught Pillars) doesnt carry the sequel in english so I have to get it on the net somewhere. Heard it was good but not as good as Pillars of Earth though.

Shabbaman
18-09-2008, 11:24
Hard to say. Pillars was impressive, the sequel is very... similar. It's more of the same really, does that make it worse? At least it's not as impressive. But it's enjoyable. You could borrow my copy, I didn't leave it in Christchurch. I'd have to figure out a way to get it to you though [:p]

I looked up Brandon Sanderson in the library. They had some dutch translations, but nothing in the english section.

Tubby Rower
18-09-2008, 13:47
Has anyone read the Eragon series? I was about to start those in the next week or so.

Darkness
18-09-2008, 13:51
quote:Originally posted by Tubby Rower

Has anyone read the Eragon series? I was about to start those in the next week or so.


I saw the movie (which sucked BTW).
Haven't read the books though...

BCLG100
18-09-2008, 14:21
the books are better than the film. But from what i remember they were an alright read, hardly brilliant but v reasonable.

mauer
23-10-2008, 00:42
I need a book. He mostly likes military books (has read a few about Nam, WW2, Civil War). Age appropriate for an 11 year old if you can think of one. Difficulty is not really an issue with him, but grandma bought him one that had more cursing in it than happy hour at the VFW.

EDIT: Fiction that is.

barbu1977
23-10-2008, 02:14
I need a book. He mostly likes military books (has read a few about Nam, WW2, Civil War). Age appropriate for an 11 year old if you can think of one. Difficulty is not really an issue with him, but grandma bought him one that had more cursing in it than happy hour at the VFW.

EDIT: Fiction that is.


At 11 I remember reading and loving this book:
http://www.amazon.com/Nicholas-Ren%C3%A9-Goscinny/dp/0714845299/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1224716950&sr=1-1

I read I in french but I heard the english translation is quite good. It's a series of short stories a bout a small boy and his friend. It's based in France in the 50's, but I don't think it realy mathers to an 11 y.o.

I read it again recently, ant it's also great for adults.

There is 5 of them in the series.

akots
23-10-2008, 09:01
My younger son recently (when he was 12, so last year) basically swallowed Lord of the Rings even though he can barely read what's on school program since he, for some reason, unlike his older brother (which reads everything), does not like to read. The book is quite good and classical and nicely complements the movies and is about a war and is very appropriate for children. Seriously.

socralynnek
23-10-2008, 10:21
What I read at that age was a book from writer Michael Ende, which is quite popular in Germany (very popular at that time). It is called "The neverending story", but I don't know if the English translation is good.

There is probably a short and a long version. The first half(= short version) is the better half, but the rest is worthwile as well.

It's about fantasy, imagination, friendship, boldlyness and whatever. The second part also tells something about responsibility, especially when having power.

Great book!

Shabbaman
23-10-2008, 11:00
Starship troopers by Heinlein. A lot better than the movie, in fact, it's in a whole different league. I think it's the most militaristic book I've ever read. A SF classic. I think it's light on profanities and is without frontal nudity (unlike the film). It's been quite a while since I read it, so don't take my word for it.

LoTR is an option, I read that when I was that age. But it's more fantasy than a war novel.

I did some searching on what were my favorite books when I was a kid; some of these writers are dutch, like Jan Terlouw and Tonke Dragt, and only some of their work is translated. But there are foreign writers that are surely translated into english, like Roald Dahl and Astrid Lindgren. Try The Brothers Lionheart (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Brothers_Lionheart), it has knights and dragons. Should count as a war ;)

Darkness
05-11-2008, 13:20
Well, I am totally finished with buying Sci-fi and fantasy books in Dutch book stores.

I was looking for a book recently and I couldn't find it in the Netherlands, so I decided to order it on amazon.com.
1 book (hardcover) + shipping fee (almost the same amount as the cost of the book) from the US to the Netherlands is actually cheaper than buying it in a Dutch bookstore. :( Next time I'll make a list and order a few at once. Should save me a significant amount of money.

Maybe I've said it before, but another recommendation: Jacqueline Carey's books about Terre d'Ange (Kushiel's Dart, etc.) Great read, though more alternate universe than real fantasy, about a whore getting involved in spying/politics...

col
05-11-2008, 15:13
Just finished Neal Stephenson's latest : Anathem.

Wonderful blend of classical and modern philosophy and hard core scifi.
One of the best things I've read in a long time.

grahamiam
05-11-2008, 17:01
Just finished Neal Stephenson's latest : Anathem.

Wonderful blend of classical and modern philosophy and hard core scifi.
One of the best things I've read in a long time.

Noted. Thanks, I've been looking for some good scifi recently and I'll give it a shot!

Dell19
22-11-2008, 12:50
If youre into hardcore space opera I'd recommend the Reality/Dysfunction/Neutronium Alchemist/Naked God - the Nights dawn series.

I do like Hamilton's books. Haven't re read any of them yet though which is an interesting test of just how enjoyable a book is and at the moment I'm finding the prospect of re reading several thousand pages quite daunting.

The Commonwealth series was good as well and probably has a better ending.

I've also read Fallen Dragon and Mindstar Rising which were both worth reading, plus the collection of short stories based around the Nights dawn series although it doesn't add much to the series. I haven't read the rest of the Greg Mandel series yet as Mindstar Rising lives as a standalone book rather than in the Nights Dawn and Commonwealth series.

Shabbaman
22-11-2008, 12:53
at the moment I'm finding the prospect of re reading several thousand pages quite daunting.

You're not in a hurry are you? Hamilton has a new book btw.

Dell19
22-11-2008, 13:11
You're not in a hurry are you? Hamilton has a new book btw.

I guess its more that its a lot of pages to read when you already know whats going to happen and some story arcs would become a lot less engaging (i.e. The Blackhawk habitat).

I'm going to be reading Misspent youth next.

Darkness
27-01-2009, 12:29
For fantasy:

- Steven Erikson: Malazin Empire


I've got to second this suggestion. I've just finished the first book of Erikson's Malazan books of the fallen series (Gardens of the Moon) and it was great. Very complex with many different storylines. Reading book 2 now (Deadhouse Gates) and this one is also very good. :)

akots
27-01-2009, 15:10
Yes. Erikson is very good, I've read them all quite some time ago and the last one which was published recently and also there are additional books of these series (necromancer trilogy by Erikson) and two books by Ian Esslemont (Night of Knives and Return of the Crimson Guard). Their forum is a nice community as well.

I'm waiting for the 5th George RR Martin's book and reading Joe Abercrombie's trilogy meanwhile. Also not bad at all.

barbu1977
27-01-2009, 16:28
I've got to second this suggestion. I've just finished the first book of Erikson's Malazan books of the fallen series (Gardens of the Moon) and it was great. Very complex with many different storylines. Reading book 2 now (Deadhouse Gates) and this one is also very good. :)

It's available at my local Library, I'll probably make it next on my reading list.

BTW, I just finished Tom Clancy's Hunt for the Red October. I did enjoy it. You could call it "historical" in some ways.

Shabbaman
27-01-2009, 17:18
I've started reading the Saga of the Seven Suns, by Kevin J. Anderson. He's a co-writer (probably better: ghost writer) for many "fake" Dune and Star Wars novels, and (thus) a true master at milking a storyline. Entertaining.

Darkness
03-02-2009, 16:59
I've started reading the Saga of the Seven Suns, by Kevin J. Anderson. He's a co-writer (probably better: ghost writer) for many "fake" Dune and Star Wars novels, and (thus) a true master at milking a storyline. Entertaining.

Why "fake" Dune ? Besides the original novel I think the books co-written by Anderson are actually better than the rest of the original series....

Shabbaman
03-02-2009, 20:50
Yes, yes... it seems no one likes the other Dune novels, but I do: it might be weird ravings of an alcoholic, incoherent and whatnot, but at least it seemed original. Those prequels seem to elaborate on some existing information (at least they claim to...). It's entertaining, but Anderson is stretching very little new information over a lot of pages. Each book has basically the same page-long introductions, over and over again. It's the same in the Saga of the Seven Suns.

Dell19
15-02-2009, 23:29
Yes, yes... it seems no one likes the other Dune novels, but I do: it might be weird ravings of an alcoholic, incoherent and whatnot, but at least it seemed original. Those prequels seem to elaborate on some existing information (at least they claim to...). It's entertaining, but Anderson is stretching very little new information over a lot of pages. Each book has basically the same page-long introductions, over and over again. It's the same in the Saga of the Seven Suns.

Nah I also like the other Dune books more than the prequels etc. The Butlerian jihad books had promise but the last book let the trilogy down (specifically the ending). The Leto books tried to introduce too many links to the Dune book and introduced a ridiculous chain of events that seemed impossible.

romeothemonk
16-02-2009, 14:04
I must not have read all the Dune books then. I read a couple, really liking the original, and then thought that most of the others were derivitive tripe. I can't say that I read the Anderson "prequels", but I did read his star wars, and I have to agree with Shabba that the man can milk a story line for 400 pages and a paycheck.

Darkness
20-03-2009, 14:21
I recently read Brent Weeks' "Night Angel" trilogy. Fairly good books, even if the storyline is a bit chaotic...

Shabbaman
20-07-2009, 12:47
ON the historical fiction side, I have really enjoyed Harry Turtledoves WorldWar series, and I am just now finishing up his Southern Victory series.
I realize that his literary skills are probably only a 5, but the concept is fresh and loaded with enough fact to keep me interested and thinking hard about several things.
Most notably is my theory that Roosevelt with Social Security ended the proclivity of States to rebel, especially the southern states, as they draw more heavily on government assistance. With close to half of the population on the federal dole revolt becomes nearly unelectable.

Anyway, you can check his stuff out here.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harry_Turtledove

I found this guy in an online book store while searching for books for my holiday. I'll check it out, as well as A Game Of Thrones by George R.R. Martin and Mistborn by Brandon Sanderson. Should be enough for two weeks.

Shabbaman
25-08-2009, 15:54
It's available at my local Library, I'll probably make it next on my reading list.

BTW, I just finished Tom Clancy's Hunt for the Red October. I did enjoy it. You could call it "historical" in some ways.

You should try Red storm rising by Tom Clancy, I think it's his best "historical" book.

I finished A Game Of Thrones and How Few Remain, and both got me to go for their sequels. As for How Few Remain, I'd say it's definately interesting to try this one. I like alternative history, but this one is about the american civil war, a period I don't know that much about. It's a good thing that I had read up a bit on it before I read the book, otherwise I would've missed quite a bit. The sequel is about WWI, I expect that to be more recognizable for a European.

And yes, Turtledove's literary skills might only be a 5, they're not worse than those of KJ Anderson ;)

grahamiam
11-09-2010, 05:11
I've got to second this suggestion. I've just finished the first book of Erikson's Malazan books of the fallen series (Gardens of the Moon) and it was great. Very complex with many different storylines. Reading book 2 now (Deadhouse Gates) and this one is also very good. :)

Well, I'm a year-and-a-half behind, but I'm half-way done Gardens of the Moon and enjoying it. Does the series carry on just as well or does it crumble later?

Also, anyone read Chronicles of the Black Company (http://www.amazon.com/Chronicles-Black-Company-Glen-Cook/dp/0765319233/)? Saw it mentioned by Vic Davis on Forgotten Lore and was looking for more opinions :) I also enjoyed GRRM's series and this looks like it's also in that vein.

Darkness
11-09-2010, 10:09
Well, I'm a year-and-a-half behind, but I'm half-way done Gardens of the Moon and enjoying it. Does the series carry on just as well or does it crumble later?


It continues on like this. Some of the books are actually even better (IMHO).
They will get more complex. Many more storylines will be introduced and most of those will only be combined in the last 2 books...

Shabbaman
04-04-2011, 23:27
Pfff, sometimes it's hard to find a new book to read. I've forgotten what I have and haven't read by Alastair Reynolds and Iain M. Banks, lazy writers like George RR don't finish their books, Peter F. Hamilton should be forced to write more, and when I do find a book (the Mistborn series mentioned some pages ago) the stupid Amazon store doesn't sell to Europeans... but the stupid english Amazon store doesn't even ship outside the UK. So. Eventually I figured I should just look at the list of Hugo Award winners. I settled on Perdido Street Station by China Mieville. Never heard of him, but let's face it, how bad can a writer be that:

a. wins a Hugo
b. has a first name like China

Now, off to bed.

akots
05-04-2011, 06:41
Well, I'm a year-and-a-half behind, but I'm half-way done Gardens of the Moon and enjoying it. Does the series carry on just as well or does it crumble later? ...

I just finished reading the last book of the series, The Crippled God. It was quite good, not the best ending ever written but at least, Erikson had a decency of wrapping it up almost to completion and he has been true to his specific writing style. Which I enjoy substantially more than the actual plot itself. He created one of the most detailed and thorough worlds and a twisted, convoluted story line which can probably be only compared with Wheel of Time. Alas, the latter is being finished by Sanderson who is trying his best but cannot make it as enjoyable as what Jordan wrote. I really did not like that much Towers of Midnight.

Also, Erikson is one of the most consistent writers I ever read. He never messes up the story, does not have even the smallest errors (unlike George RR who constantly screws the things up, like for example describing how one of the main heroes was badly wounded in a leg and then in 5 minutes, running away like a hare). Also another epic writer Terry Goodkind sucks at minor details. These small things really spoil their books for me. Erikson also supplements almost each chapter with a very decent piece of poetry. Again, it is not Keates or Byron but it is neither a mediocre verse-putting-together. He has the spirit and the skill and peculiar style of his own. Which is quite rare these days. Not an easy read but a great series if you manage to get through all of it.

Another strange thing is that they have tried to translate Erikson into Russian and it did not work. Some publisher got out the first volume of Malazan Chronicles and it was a complete failure, essentially unreadable for some reason. I browsed through it and tried to compare with the English text and this failure is not due to a poor quality of translation. Translation was OK, could not have done better myself. It is just that some magic present in the English text is lost completely. The feeling of mystery is gone and very poetic style is transformed into some poorly understandable and empty ravings of a lunatic. Why is that, I don't know. Same thing is with translations of some novels and poems of Pushkin into English. Again repeating, Erikson is not some outstanding potential classic, it is just a very decent and inspiring read.

Darkness
05-04-2011, 10:25
He created one of the most detailed and thorough worlds and a twisted, convoluted story line which can probably be only compared with Wheel of Time. Alas, the latter is being finished by Sanderson who is trying his best but cannot make it as enjoyable as what Jordan wrote. I really did not like that much Towers of Midnight.


I actually liked Sanderson's WoT writing much more than Jordans last books. Maybe it's due to the plot, but I felt that Jordan was just not moving forward with the tale (he was just stalling IMHO), while Sanderson is actually finishing up storylines...

Shabbaman
05-04-2011, 13:29
Brian Sanderson is not a bad writer. I liked WoT 12 and 13, but tbh that's only because I had read the previous books. I'm not sure what the additional value of the books after the 3rd or 4th volume are. There's a huge "get on with it" factor here, so it's good that Sanderson is finally finishing storylines instead of the endless milking that was going on.

BCLG100
05-04-2011, 14:41
is Brian Sanderson the same as Brandon Sanderson? If so I enjoyed his latest book; the Way of Kings, it was interesting, new and long (which meant it took me a couple of days to read which i like).

Darkness
05-04-2011, 15:47
is Brian Sanderson the same as Brandon Sanderson?


Yes. Brandon Sanderson, who also wrote the Mistborn trilogy and Elantris.

akots
06-04-2011, 05:58
It is the small things which annoy me with Sanderson. I read Elantris and Warbreaker and there were some inconsistencies in both and lack of or weak spiritual motivation of the heroes to do things they did. It does not look natural but rather gives an impression of sophistication and lack of profound picture. I also was disappointed with the endings of both books while some ideas were worthy. In summary, his books are too American for my taste with artificially created problems and solutions. He is certainly not the worst writer out there but I would rather read something else.

Jordan never allowed that despite being lengthy and slow in moving the plot. His books are not less enjoyable because of this. All his heroes are full of life and thought and there are no inconsistencies. He was a titan and a great writer while Sanderson just struggles. Maybe, one day he will get there because he has certain potential. Until then, I'm not going to waste more time and money reading his books. Although, I'll read the final one (or will it be two?) of the Wheel of Time when it gets out.

Darkness
06-04-2011, 10:13
It is the small things which annoy me with Sanderson. I read Elantris and Warbreaker and there were some inconsistencies in both and lack of or weak spiritual motivation of the heroes to do things they did. It does not look natural but rather gives an impression of sophistication and lack of profound picture. I also was disappointed with the endings of both books while some ideas were worthy. In summary, his books are too American for my taste with artificially created problems and solutions. He is certainly not the worst writer out there but I would rather read something else.

Jordan never allowed that despite being lengthy and slow in moving the plot. His books are not less enjoyable because of this. All his heroes are full of life and thought and there are no inconsistencies. He was a titan and a great writer while Sanderson just struggles. Maybe, one day he will get there because he has certain potential. Until then, I'm not going to waste more time and money reading his books. Although, I'll read the final one (or will it be two?) of the Wheel of Time when it gets out.

I agree with you on the basics. Jordan was more consistent and he seems to have been the more talented writer, I just felt like he was dragging it out too much. Not so much a slow moving plot, but really just stalling to either fill more books or because he couldn't make up his mind on where he wanted to go with certain storylines (Perrin's storyline for example is almost glacially slow, and the same goes for Egwene's (and especially with the last one I really felt like he was just making twists and turns to drag it out))....

Furiey
06-04-2011, 11:03
I have not read any books of the Wheel of Time series for the very reason that it seemed so dragged out being so long and that put me off. I've just finished re-reading Zelazny's Amber series and have started again on CJ Cherryh's Foreigner series having just got (and read in 1 night with no sleep) book 11 just published in paperback. I've recently got my parents hooked on the Foreigner books so they have the last one now to read while I re-read the rest before reading the new one again.
Sounds like a few in this thread that I will have to investigate.

Shabbaman
06-04-2011, 11:52
Not so much a slow moving plot, but really just stalling to either fill more books or because he couldn't make up his mind on where he wanted to go with certain storylines (Perrin's storyline for example is almost glacially slow, and the same goes for Egwene's (and especially with the last one I really felt like he was just making twists and turns to drag it out))....

I don't mind slow moving plots, but if you bring in a new storyline it needs a purpose. So okay, there's a bunch of ta'veren coming from the same village, but does it in the end really matter to the plot what they are doing? I seriously doubt that Jordan had a clue what would happen at Tarmon Gai'don when he started on WoT 1... At the very least Sanderson is clearly working towards a goal, and that makes it nice to read.

Darkness
06-04-2011, 12:24
I seriously doubt that Jordan had a clue what would happen at Tarmon Gai'don when he started on WoT 1....

I once read a chat session transcript with Jordan where he stated the exact opposite actually. He said (in december 2000) that he has had the final scene in his head for 15 years.

Jordan chat session transcript (http://edition.cnn.com/chat/transcripts/2000/12/12/jordan/)

Shabbaman
06-04-2011, 12:54
I know... but that doesn't explain all the endless walls of text he produced.

Darkness
06-04-2011, 13:47
I know... but that doesn't explain all the endless walls of text he produced.

I know. That's why I like Sanderson's WoT books better than the last handful by Jordan. At least Sanderson is not stalling!

BCLG100
06-04-2011, 16:02
On a sort of related fantasy book series I'm very much looking forward to Game of Thrones coming out in a couple of weeks, especially after Martin has said Dance with Dragons is coming out in July.

akots
07-04-2011, 02:56
I don't mind slow moving plots, but if you bring in a new storyline it needs a purpose. ...

That is exactly my point against Sanderson. His get the story moving but cannot create emotionally strong purpose behind that movement.

akots
07-04-2011, 03:08
I know... but that doesn't explain all the endless walls of text he produced.

It is a good text nevertheless. I never considered WoT as action-based series. Jordan has built his world and the more he wrote, the more the reader gets involved with this world of his. Each book added something to make the world clearer like fading off a fog covering up the scenery. Since his scenery is immense, it takes some time to unravel. One can do this with a few strikes of a brush but he better be a genius at that and these are very-very few and for some reason, they seldom write science fiction or fantasy.

For example, Tolstoi's War and Peace creates a rather comprehensive historic and emotional picture of Russia at 1805-1813 and it is a very long book. A somewhat less talented writer (Jordan is not Tolstoi after all) needs substantially more space and words to do a similar thing with his fantasy world. Dickens, or Kipling, or Gogol' can do a similar thing with a shorter novel, and Chekhov can do this with a couple of short stories while Byron or Pushkin were able to tell a lot with just a short poem. This does not mean that either one of them is better or worse than the other, it is mostly a matter of taste and available time. Which you might be better off spending in a bar or just fucking around doing something you like.

So, I cannot say I don't care how it ends but the element of story and action is already somewhat lost on me here. When a book is that long, you either stop caring at some point or stop reading and wait until it all comes out and only then, read it all together.

akots
07-04-2011, 03:19
On a sort of related fantasy book series I'm very much looking forward to Game of Thrones coming out in a couple of weeks, especially after Martin has said Dance with Dragons is coming out in July.

I'm afraid that the TV guys will spoil everything. They messed up the Goodkind's first novel so badly it turned out an idiotic series for middle school children while the original story was quite mature and very enjoyable. Also, a lot of George RR lines would have to be censored to get on TV which won't help at all. So, I think I will not watch and see what people say about it. If it turns out to be good, I'll download it and watch then or buy a DVD at the season's end. I did a similar with Farscape + Peacekeeper Wars movies and it worked very well. Same thing hapened with Battlestar Galactica and the only difference was that I borrowed the DVDs from a coworker of mine. When it got really bad (middle of season 2), I just fast forwarded them to get to the end. Considering how much you have to pay for the cable these day, and that Washington DC is a very expensive place to live, this actually saves me some money.

Also, I expect I get soon so overwhelmed with the new job that I won't have any time left for reading, or TV, or even posting at CDZ...

Hygro
07-04-2011, 05:16
May I suggest the short and easy to read "Company" by Max Barry. He's a fantastically entertaining writer and I think that while not his most popular, is his best piece.

Shabbaman
07-04-2011, 14:45
It is a good text nevertheless. I never considered WoT as action-based series. Jordan has built his world and the more he wrote, the more the reader gets involved with this world of his. Each book added something to make the world clearer like fading off a fog covering up the scenery. Since his scenery is immense, it takes some time to unravel. One can do this with a few strikes of a brush but he better be a genius at that and these are very-very few and for some reason, they seldom write science fiction or fantasy.

For example, Tolstoi's War and Peace creates a rather comprehensive historic and emotional picture of Russia at 1805-1813 and it is a very long book. A somewhat less talented writer (Jordan is not Tolstoi after all) needs substantially more space and words to do a similar thing with his fantasy world. Dickens, or Kipling, or Gogol' can do a similar thing with a shorter novel, and Chekhov can do this with a couple of short stories while Byron or Pushkin were able to tell a lot with just a short poem. This does not mean that either one of them is better or worse than the other, it is mostly a matter of taste and available time. Which you might be better off spending in a bar or just fucking around doing something you like.

So, I cannot say I don't care how it ends but the element of story and action is already somewhat lost on me here. When a book is that long, you either stop caring at some point or stop reading and wait until it all comes out and only then, read it all together.

I like worldbuilding. I don't have the feeling that after the first couple of books Jordan is expanding this world a lot. On the other hand, he is taking his time to develop characters, which in the end could explain certain choices they will make in the plot. The thing is, the series is set from the start to a clear and very urgent goal. The whole world knows what is going to happen and that it might happen soon. In the mean while, there's just not much actually happening. If you look at a comparable story like a Song of Fire and Ice for example, there's also a lot happening that doesn't seem to add to finishing the story. But the difference is that in a Song of Fire and Ice most people are convinced that nothing is going to happen, and that there is no urgency to do something. So as a reader I'm not expecting them to do something useful. In Wheel of Time you'd expect that people say "oh, the dragon reborn is here, let's go to Dragonmount to get killed or kill the evil one".

There's also an additional problem: when I started reading the series there were already 10 novels. I enjoyed the first few, after that I was dreading that Robert Jordan was pulling a Kevin J. Anderson on me. That changes the expectancy value of what I read.

BCLG100
08-04-2011, 01:01
I'm afraid that the TV guys will spoil everything. They messed up the Goodkind's first novel so badly it turned out an idiotic series for middle school children while the original story was quite mature and very enjoyable. Also, a lot of George RR lines would have to be censored to get on TV which won't help at all. So, I think I will not watch and see what people say about it. If it turns out to be good, I'll download it and watch then or buy a DVD at the season's end. I did a similar with Farscape + Peacekeeper Wars movies and it worked very well. Same thing hapened with Battlestar Galactica and the only difference was that I borrowed the DVDs from a coworker of mine. When it got really bad (middle of season 2), I just fast forwarded them to get to the end. Considering how much you have to pay for the cable these day, and that Washington DC is a very expensive place to live, this actually saves me some money.

Also, I expect I get soon so overwhelmed with the new job that I won't have any time left for reading, or TV, or even posting at CDZ...


I know what you mean but I still can't not watch it. Also perhaps because it is HBO they'll be able to leave most of it in as it is a subscription channel, not sure how much they'll show the incest though!

akots
08-04-2011, 05:46
... Also perhaps because it is HBO they'll be able to leave most of it in as it is a subscription channel, not sure how much they'll show the incest though!

That is seriously in doubt. Here, a lot of kids watch HBO. They will leave the swordfights in though since it is just PG13. No way for incest!

BCLG100
08-04-2011, 19:25
That is seriously in doubt. Here, a lot of kids watch HBO. They will leave the swordfights in though since it is just PG13. No way for incest!

Well Rome was on HBO and that was fairly graphic and had incest in (Augustus caesar and his sister), so I think it has a good chance and I don't think that Martin would be so keen for it if it wasn't close to his original idea.

ProPain
08-04-2011, 20:05
Apparently all series set in ancient Rome have to be graphic. Spartacus, the blood and the sand, contained a fair bit of adult content.

BCLG100
08-04-2011, 22:01
Apparently all series set in ancient Rome have to be graphic. Spartacus, the blood and the sand, contained a fair bit of adult content.

That was by Starz though, this is HBO.

Related to Starz, Camelot is relatively watchable.

ProPain
08-04-2011, 22:59
Camelot hasnt quite made it to dutch tv afaik.

BCLG100
08-04-2011, 23:10
It hasn't made it to England either but i downloaded it.

Darkness
20-06-2011, 14:12
New recommendation: The Black Magiciam series by Trudi Canavan. Basically about blood sacrifice magic versus "clean" magic. A very enjoyable read. :)

Shabbaman
20-06-2011, 14:40
I'm now reading The Baroque Cycle (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Baroque_Cycle) by Neal Stephenson. It's absolutely fantastic!

BCLG100
05-07-2011, 12:52
New recommendation: The Black Magiciam series by Trudi Canavan. Basically about blood sacrifice magic versus "clean" magic. A very enjoyable read. :)

I've read most of her stuff, quite a nice story if not pushing the bounds of literary genius. There's a followup series to it.

Mistfit
05-07-2011, 17:02
I have been re-reading Robin Hobb.. Nice set of books. I think they are up to around 9 atm.. broken into 3 sections..

Farseer
Live Ships
More Farseer

Good read.. mostly brain popcorn but that is why I read.

Darkness
05-07-2011, 21:43
I've read most of her stuff, quite a nice story if not pushing the bounds of literary genius. There's a followup series to it.

There's also a prequel. I'm reading that one now, and it's also a good read so far...

akots
06-07-2011, 06:41
I've read the ships book some time ago and they were quote good. However, I was unable to read even a single Farseer. I got very bored somewhere around page 10, made a heroic effort to advance it to page 20, then lingered down to page 30 and gave up at page 40. It was the first book IIRC.

BCLG100
06-07-2011, 13:55
There's also a prequel. I'm reading that one now, and it's also a good read so far...

Yeah, I didn't like it so much. It made the rest of the series make no sense due to the letter sent from Dannyl to Akkarin at the start.

ProPain
16-07-2013, 23:51
Holiday is nearing, time to read some good books :). Any recommendations?

barbu1977
17-07-2013, 04:19
I'm almost done with Gates of Fire by Steven Pressfield, nice historical novel about the Battle of Thermopylae. I would not recommend it if you know a little about the subject, but not having seen the movie 300 and knowing very little about the time, I learned alot.

Shabbaman
17-07-2013, 09:08
I'm currently reading the latest (and last) Culture novel, The Hydrogen Sonata by Iain M. Banks. I don't know what you've read in the series, but there's a total of 10 books in this series, the highs of space opera sci-fi.

Don't we have a book thread already somewhere?

ProPain
17-07-2013, 13:23
Thanks for the suggestions, both sound good so now I need to find the ebooks

@Shabba, yes we had a book thread somewhere but I couldn't find it quickly :)

BCLG100
18-07-2013, 12:56
I can't get enough of stuff by Joe Abercrombie, depends what you're in to.

akots
18-07-2013, 19:06
I can't get enough of stuff by Joe Abercrombie, depends what you're in to.

He's very entertaining, I've read everything so far. I have his latest book, Red Country, did not start on it yet but planning to do so in the near future.

barbu1977
18-07-2013, 21:23
Looks like a good read. He's not at my local library yet!

Fortunatly he's been translated in French (I read twice as fast in French over English)

Shabbaman
19-07-2013, 09:08
Omelette dü fromage!

BCLG100
19-07-2013, 12:37
He's very entertaining, I've read everything so far. I have his latest book, Red Country, did not start on it yet but planning to do so in the near future.

I enjoyed it. It felt slightly different to some of his others but I can't place why. Perhaps it was the new area it was set in, I always love the familiar faces that arise in all his books though. I'm re-reading them all from start to finish now.

I also like Patrick Rothfuss a lot but that's quite different.

I saw a recommendation on a book website for Matthew Stover- The Acts of Caine. I've not been disappointed by what i've read. It's fantasy mixed with sci-fi. On occasion it can be a little hard to follow though, a bit like Steven Erikson in that it jumps around a lot in the final couple of books.

Socrates
19-07-2013, 18:44
Omelette dü fromage!

Ik houd van kaas. :cool:

ProPain
06-08-2013, 15:19
Someone gave me a nice ebook collection so I ended up reading the following

World War Z by Brooks : Really enjoyed it, reminds me of the Walking Dead. It's told in a documentary style, not zombie horror at all. Recommended

Songs of ice and fire : decided to read the books before I'd watch the series. People in this thread were worried the series would be crap, dunno how they feel about it now being the hit series it is. Enjoying the books, almost finished Clash of Kings.

BCLG100
06-08-2013, 17:03
Someone gave me a nice ebook collection so I ended up reading the following

World War Z by Brooks : Really enjoyed it, reminds me of the Walking Dead. It's told in a documentary style, not zombie horror at all. Recommended

Songs of ice and fire : decided to read the books before I'd watch the series. People in this thread were worried the series would be crap, dunno how they feel about it now being the hit series it is. Enjoying the books, almost finished Clash of Kings.

The series is quite good, I just couldn't really get in to it. I imagine i'll come back and watch it but knowing the twists makes the series a bit meh.

World War Z the book was very good, i enjoyed it lots. World War Z the movie, by all accounts, looks dreadful as it is not the same at all!

akots
06-08-2013, 19:04
... Songs of ice and fire : decided to read the books before I'd watch the series. People in this thread were worried the series would be crap, dunno how they feel about it now being the hit series it is. Enjoying the books, almost finished Clash of Kings.

IMO, GoT is quite brilliant with stellar or exceptional major actors and very solid secondary actors and overall, very enjoyable. Season 3 is very good. They tweak the plot but only a tiny bit here and there, nothing serious. I've read the books quite some time ago and really enjoyed the series. Maybe, this is because I partly forgot the details of the plot. Overall, it is probably the best fantasy/SciFi TV series ever made, can only compare with Farscape but there were no books for Farscape.

akots
06-08-2013, 19:10
... knowing the twists makes the series a bit meh. ...

Well, they make a very convincing case of actually seeing things. I'd say that the directors tuned it down for those who read the books since they account for about a third of the audience for the series. This includes putting a lot of effort and style in little things, making it enjoyable to watch. Yes, knowing the red wedding is going to happen makes it less dramatic. But the actors played it very well which was a big surprise for me. And Danaerys adventures are also done splendidly. That actually looked somewhat overextended in the books but these scenes shine in the series.

Shabbaman
06-08-2013, 21:55
Overall, it is probably the best fantasy/SciFi TV series ever made

It doesn't hold a candle to BSG. Yes, it's a solid series, the acting is good, the CGI is good and not very obvious, but if you've read the books the series lack suspense or creativity. If you haven't read the books, it's probably brilliant.

ProPain
07-08-2013, 11:22
@BCLG: I also wonder how they're gonna make a film out of World War Z, the style doesn't seem to fit a movie script at all. I'll stick with the Walking Dead series for now :) For those who like graphic novels, they're worth reading as well.

BCLG100
07-08-2013, 11:52
@BCLG: I also wonder how they're gonna make a film out of World War Z, the style doesn't seem to fit a movie script at all. I'll stick with the Walking Dead series for now :) For those who like graphic novels, they're worth reading as well.

They already have, it's been released over here. Apparently a lot of people went to see it so they're making two sequels. The story is entirely changed, without giving too much away, the first film is a quest to find a cure rather than interviewing the survivors.

The key thing I didn't like were that the zombies are like 28 days later zombies rather than the slow but ominous zombies of traditional zombie movies!

ProPain
08-08-2013, 22:27
Sounds like they're just using the title to market the movie.