SGOTM7 - Initial thoughts on the game...

[Melifluous]

Official Sign-Up at some other forum (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=118132)

And the start position...

http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/melifluous/200556203320_SGOTM7-Start.jpg
35.99*KB

And for reference Oysters are +2fpt and +1gpt, Sheep (pictured) are +2fpt and +1spt.

Melifluous

[akots]

It's going to be tough. I suggest starting to shop for coffee, chocolate, steroid stimulants, anti-anxiety pills, kevlar breastplates and other items useful in similar journeys. Prepare backpacks in advance and eat well before taking off. It hurts to die on an empty stomach.

[Melifluous]

Well I can see little reason to suggest moving for a start.

Questions.

1) Can we assume with the inference that this maybe easier than AWD that we are alone on an island?
- if so no building curraghs for a while, let's get settled first.

2) Find horses quick?

3) Irrigate the sheep for +4fpt (grow in 5 without granary, 3 with granary)?

4) Build order?

Should be a nice start...

Melifluous

[Kingreno]

I'd say the Lighthouse would be a very precious gem to have. It would probably allow control over who we meet and when we meet them. With the Ottomans it is not the easiest wonder to chase but Masonry will allow a palace prebuild.

[Melifluous]

I cant see the Lighthouse being possible on Deity, but I dont play Arch-Deity maps often [:P]

Can we assume we are alone and farmers gambit?

Land to the NW looks good for first overseas venture.

a picture.

http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/melifluous/200556233420_SGOTM7grid.JPG
72.14KB

Melifluous

[Melifluous]

A nice AWR game here... (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=44540&page=7&pp=40)

Melifluous

[akots]

The only AW played above regent is SGOTM (AWM). A bit cheesy and in vanilla.

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=88112

[romeothemonk]

Here is my 2 cents.
CFC is not evil enough to give a thoroughly craptastic AW civ on Deity with another civ on the same land.
The Ottos are a poor AW civ, even more so on Archi. It is due to that fact that I highly doubt you share the land with anyone. I would consider a farmer type gambit. I am an avid follower of the Handy Grumpy old men of Always war threads and the related greebley threads.
On Diety, you need an average of 3 spears to repel another civs starting units.
Stuff you guys assuredly already know, CxxC spacing, build on hills, consider an extended stay in despot, prebuild the Great library early.
In high level AW, The Great Library is the single most key thing to build.
I would need to see the terrain more, but I suggest setting your 3 or 4 city to a temple, then a Prebuild.

[anarres]

Always the farmer gambit. Do we know for sure the agrssion level is not increased? Also, are there any very agressive civs? (Zulu, Germans)

[akots]

Seems very unlikely there is none else on the starting landmass. There probably is some might be just a bit far away to allow building these 3 spears with good micromanagement... [evil]

[Mistfit]

Initial thoughts:
The most important people we can meet in tis game seem to be:
Orhan
Murad I
Suleyman I
Selim
Mehmed II
Bayezid II
All of which are GL's

What do we plan to conquere the world with? Knights? Saphi's?

------------------Att.--Def.--Moves--Shield Cost
Standard Cavalry---6-----3------3--------80
Ottoman Sipahi-----8-----3------3-------100

We start with Bronze Working and Masonry. Dependant upon who our rivals and wether or not we are alone will decide what we research but pottery seems a given.

Expensive but a deadly UU.

Can we make anything of a settler factory out of that start? I'll have to try to do some figuring there.

[col]

Do we go for the Great Library or not? Most of the AW games I've seen depend on the GL to keep research going. The toughest thing I find is to keep up research until you can get to a decent attcker. Its a long way to sipahi.

[Mistfit]

I think that the GL is a must! By the looks of the rules we can never trade with the AI past initial contact. You are correct col...MT is a very long way off. BTW what sick bastard picks an industrious - scientific civilization for an AWD? oh yeah I remember now [lol] just kiding MB.

[Melifluous]

quote:Originally posted by Mistfit

Can we make anything of a settler factory out of that start? I'll have to try to do some figuring there.


No.

Well not until we change government.

Irrigated sheeps [rolleyes] give +3fpt as despots, best we are looking at is +4fpt surplus.

However it would seem that 10 spt should be easy at size 5.

Luxuries must be found!

Horse would help :)

Melifluous

[Melifluous]

And personally I couldn't think of a better civ for this game.

Industrious... (improve fast before wars, and roads help a LOT in defence)

Scientific... (research buildings cheap, library quicker to build than temples for expansion, reason to get Literature quick with a proper pre-build city.)

Sipahi... (If we have survived this long then these are the tools for domination! (sounds like something outta the Foundation series by Asimov [lol].) A truly awesome piece of offensive weaponry. Could claw us back even against infantry!)

Thanks Mad-Bax.

However this game will take at least as much care and attention as the 100k game.

It's gonna be tough.

Melifluous

[Aggie]

It's going to be tough!

Regarding the Lighthouse: we tried to get lighthouse on arch twice in Dromon SG's (a.o. AG1). Both times we failed... Prime reason: trading for alphabet and writing at the start. That won't happen with you I guess (AW). Looks like you will have a difficult time get the wonder without Alphabet as starting tech anyway.

[socralynnek]

So, joining the discussion...

quote:Originally posted by Melifluous

Well I can see little reason to suggest moving for a start.

Questions.

1) Can we assume with the inference that this maybe easier than AWD that we are alone on an island?
- if so no building curraghs for a while, let's get settled first.

If we are alone on that island, it might be nice to build curraghs, because if we meet the other civs fast, our tech costs will be reduced drastically (and maybe we can trade Alphabet or writing)
So we might get to Literature faster.
But that all depends, whether the other civs can reach us with galleys, then it might be better to not disturb them.

quote:
2) Find horses quick?


Why not?
But, I guess finding luxuries will be more important, but if we see horses or iron on the way...

quote:
3) Irrigate the sheep for +4fpt (grow in 5 without granary, 3 with granary)?


Definitely. Our workers are fast and we should get settlers fast and I guess food will be the bigger problem than shields for getting settlers.

quote:
4) Build order?

Should be a nice start...

Melifluous



I have made some test games in the last 7 days, where I set up the land in my favor ( lots of luxuries...)
If I go for Literature directly, I have no problem getting the GLib.
Sometimes I could trade for Pottery if I got contacts early.

I don't think we can get the Great Lighthouse, often Civs get it when another wonder is completed.

We can get lots of gold while the GLib is active, which we can use for either rushing units or saving for a mass upgrade to Sipahi, but upgrading to Sipahi is very expensive.

Build order: I don't think we should do a farmers gambit because of the barbarians. I also hope we have no other civ on our continent, but cities and settlers still need protection.

I think we should start with 2 or 3 warriors.
If we research Pottery first, we can chop then for a Granary.
I suggest the research order Pottery, Alphabet, Writing, Literature and the GLib gives us the other techs. (Maybe Wheel would be nice for seeing horses, but I guess that can be traded)

Those are my thoughts...

[Melifluous]

And I too have been making test games.

Worst one was on a continent with 3 other AI who I met when they wandered their stacks across barb hunting. Didn't last long there ;)

Next was sharing with 1 civ. I survived and probably would crush out that other civ, but I made the mistake of getting the Wheel first when I really needed archers.

Personally I dont think TGL is possible [u]unless</u> we are alone. I barely managed to squeeze in 5 cities before war took over completely.

Melifluous

[col]

We're dead if there are 2 or 3 other civs on our island. I'd guess that we're either alone or with 1 other civ with crap land. I'd also guess that there would be 2 or 3 civs within galley range. Map size is small so we probably wont be able to avoid meeting other civs.

In AW, I generally go for as strong an infrastructure and as many cites as possible while I can build peacefully, so farmer's gambit is fine if we are alone ie no goody huts get popped.

[socralynnek]

We need units for MP (unless we have so many luxuries near as I have in my test games, which I modded).
In my test games, one city only build settlers while the others build the units for MP and company for the settlers.

But it is an important decision if we should pop goody huts or not (but maybe there are no goody huts on our continent, so discussing might be worthless)

[anarres]

I just came to this thread again and realised I simply can't commit the time I need to, to be part of the decision making process. :(

I'd like to lurk and generally take the piss a bit, but I better not play...

[Mistfit]

Oh good christ. This game just got harder.

[Mistfit]

The save is now available. Is this where we are going to post turns and discuss the game?

[col]

quote:Originally posted by anarres

I just came to this thread again and realised I simply can't commit the time I need to, to be part of the decision making process. :(

I'd like to lurk and generally take the piss a bit, but I better not play...


Play when you can A. Any contributions are welcome.

[Mistfit]

Are you going to kick us off col? Get 20 played on the first? Make lots of good pic's.

[col]

Um - I cant take it right now. All hell has just broken lose at work.

[Mistfit]

Meli...Do you want to kick us of or are we going to wait until our leader has time? I could prolly play a turnset this evening 12+ hr from now but I'd feel more comfortable if one of the "better" players did the first moves.

[Melifluous]

Erm yeah sure I can take it.

Would play merry hell with the play order, but I happen to have a couple of free hours in about an hours time (travelling home from work on the train).

I GOT IT!!!

Melifluous

[Mistfit]

Go Meli Go!

[Melifluous]

LOL.

Declare war in 3800BC! [:O]

Melifluous

[col]

Ok - how about this for a play order? It mixes experienced players and newcomers in.

Meli - up
KR
Mistfit
Col
socralynnek
(Anarres)

[Melifluous]

KR kinda has just like had a baby dude.

Maybe shuffle him down a little at least...

Melifluous

[col]

Ok how about if he and I swap then.

Meli
col
Mistfit
KR
socralynnek
(Anarres)

[Melifluous]

Hope you're ready for the save then ;)

Melifluous

[col]

I can play it tomorrow evening if you're ready by then.

So where's the log'n'pix. [:p]

[Melifluous]

&lt;snip&gt;

Logs in da log thread.

Melifluous

[col]

Sigh - and I just created a new thread to avoid cluttering up this one with logs....

Any chance of moving your post?