View Full Version : grs vs. grahamiam - finished
Like promised the quick "let's throw a spoiler thread up post".
Here (http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=2569) is the game setup and there (http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=2570) is the map making thread.
Thanks again to Darkness for the map.
This is my start (worker to cow, settled on spot, writing at max):
http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/grs/20054113358_London.jpg
56.04*KB
It looks like clear case of a 4-turn settler factory to me. I plan to irrigate and road the cow and get the factory online after warrior, curragh, granary. That would mean no mp, and high lux, but I still guess it should be worth it (beeing commercial and seafaring afterall). I will try to get philosophy first and I don't think grahamiam can beat me to that unless he skips pottery and gambles to trade or pop it.
Not sure if it is me, but I recently have a tendency to meet the AI soon. Is meeting Theo in 3500BC a good or a bad thing on Demi-God? She is up Bronze Working (starting tech) and Warrior Code (must have researched, popped, traded that). I can still sell Pottery for 10g to her, but I would like her to get some more cash, so I risk not trading it now, though I need every coin I can get.
http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/grs/2005413125759_Theo.jpg
61.64KB
Darkness
13-04-2005, 13:13
FYI: She definately didn't pop it. You and grahamiam requested "no barbarians", so that also means no GH's... :)
http://home.planet.nl/~dijk8021/logo_club_12.jpg
Melifluous
14-04-2005, 00:35
[smirk]
Melifluous
2750BC / turn 25:
The 4-turn settler factory is up! The first settler was a 5 turn build and will complete next turn.
http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/grs/2005423112326_London.jpg
85.78KB
Theo has not reseached a tech I can "see", so she probably done iron working, which is not uncommon for her. This is what I know of our island.
http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/grs/2005423112140_british_isle.jpg
59.38KB
This is my exploring curragh.
http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/grs/2005423112213_exploring_curragh.jpg
35.55KB
Only one turn later in 2710BC:
http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/grs/2005423163748_evil.jpg
76.74*KB
[aargh]This is really evil. I can understand why Theo settled there, but come on.[aargh]
On the brighter side.
http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/grs/2005423163853_vikings.jpg
37.39*KB
Guess that is a purple (viking) border in the picture. I hope I can contact them soon.
Darkness
23-04-2005, 19:22
Wow, that's annoying!
Any chance of a small war in the near future?
quote:Originally posted by Darkness
Wow, that's annoying!
Any chance of a small war in the near future?
Hmm...with a demi-god Ai starting with bw, so having a ton of spears? I doubt that. But on the other hand being alone on an isle with a high level AI almost certainly leads to war rather sooner than later, but I do not even have plopped down my 2nd town.
I will enter landgrab settling mode, which will delay my expansion, but I will try to settle in a way the AI - namely beautifull Theo - won't settle in between. Basically I will settle CxxCxxC, but start with the second ring. Risky though, so wish me luck!
Good news is contact with the vikings and spotting Sumerian borders already. Their town is coastal, so I definetely will make contact next turn. Please wish me good luck again, that my wrinting run does not fail.
http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/grs/2005423211046_Vikings.jpg
16.04KB
2300BC
Writing researched as 2nd. The Vikings(!) already have it, but Sumeria and Byzantines still miss it. Byzantines very probably don't have contact with anyone, but I seriously suspect them to have Iron Working.
Trade:
Writing to Gilgamesh for Broze Working and Ceremonial Burial.
Writing to Theodora for Iron Working.
Iron Working to Gilgamesh for Mysticism.
Mysticism to Theodora for The Wheel.
Iron Working and Ceremonial Burial to Ragnar for Warrior Code + 20g.
The Wheel to Gilgamesh to Masonry.
Probably some bogus deals in there, but demi AI would trade techs so fast anyways, that I could better grab everything I could get. Gilgamesh, Theo and I have tech parity, Ragnar is back Mysticism. That's what you get from holding back your monopoly on Writing :)
Start Philosophy at max, due in 16 atm.
Horses and Iron are in my reach.
2070BC
Theo demands 20g from me and I give in. That warned me again, to keep my fingers away from deficit researching. I meet the Spanish and see that I have tech parity with them. The Vikings still miss Mysticism, no other changes.
Nice trading!
When are you going to crush that annoying Byzantine city in your first ring?
quote:Originally posted by Banzai
Nice trading!
When are you going to crush that annoying Byzantine city in your first ring?As late as possible. I would like to settle as much as I can get first. The island still offers much room for settlers.
1725BC
Grahamiam has beaten me to Philosophy - at least no AI I know has it yet. I wonder how - since I am playing before him and he obviously did have about the same number of cities all the time? Could he do Writing faster, did he buy the last turns from the Vikings? If not, he must have been faster from Writing to Philosophy. Maybe I lost one turn by settling the 2nd ring first, maybe it was a mistake not having connected a lux yet, but I fealt I had to settle this way. Then I notice Grahamiam has the highest population! Wow, I have to admit I can't do that on Demi-God uphill against an agricultural AI.
Since he did not trade Philosophy around yet, I can. So let's start the trading again.
Philosophy to Gilgamesh for Horseback + 5g.
Philosophy, Mysticism and Horseback to Ragnar for Map Making.
Philosophy to Isabella for 16g.
Philosophy to Theodora for 44g.
Map Making won't buy me Mathematics from Gilgamesh, he seems to be pretty close to it himself, while Mathematics is still a monolpoly.
In the end: I am par (judging from tech costs) with Grahamiam and Ragnar. Down Mathematics and up Map Making on Gilgamesh. Up Horseback and Map Making on Theodora and Isabella. I start Literature.
Embassy with Theo (she has no contacts, afaik).
http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/grs/200551112391_Constantinople.jpg
75.24*KB
Darkness
11-05-2005, 13:45
Hey grs,
Can you please show a screenie of island/your core? I'm curious how the map played out. :)
Your wish is my command, though I do not have something that could be called a core yet, for reasons mentioned above.
http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/grs/200551114433_core.jpg
74.83KB
Lt. Killer M
11-05-2005, 14:09
yeah, demi and higher AIs will always settle extremely aggressively toward the human.
sucks
I have seen AIs march 15 tiles from their capital with their startup units before plopping a town down - only to find there is oil there [crazyeye]
Thinking back, the game already could have gone down the drain if Grahamiam took away my trading opportunities. I would really like to know his contacts, but an embassy with him was too expensive after taking one with Theodora.
Darkness
11-05-2005, 14:39
Thanks! :)
Why haven't you hooked up the silks yet?
IMHO Varna will have to be dealt with sooner rather than later. Preferably directly after the expansion phase...
quote:Originally posted by Darkness
Thanks! :)
Why haven't you hooked up the silks yet?Because it is a relative safe spot. When I see a Byzantine settler heading there, I still have time to move there in time.
quote:Originally posted by Darkness
IMHO Varna will have to be dealt with sooner rather than later. Preferably directly after the expansion phase...Yes, that would be a possibility. I will have to see how it develops though.
750BC
I am down Polytheism, Currency and Construction on grahamiam and Isabella and one or the other tech on the other AIs. Now it is time to see, if racing to Republic will pay off.
*drumroll*
http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/grs/2005731152017_republic.jpg
55.38*KB
Puuuuhhh, I have it first and it is still worth all 3 techs I am down and lots of cash too. I revolt for a fabulous 4 turns of anarchy.
Sell Republic for Polytheism, Currency, Construction, 127g and 6gpt to Spain and enter the middle ages. Sell Currency to Gilgamesh for 40g - he gets Feudalism for free.
I will attack Theo soon after leaving anarchy. This is my military right now, the warriors waiting to be upgraded.
http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/grs/2005731154713_military.jpg
49.39*KB
It seems grahamiam is at war with the Spanish.
http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/grs/200573115489_graham_at_war.jpg
23.24*KB
Seems I will lose this. Grahamiam is close to finish the Spanish off his isle, while I just took my first town from Theodora. Monarchy, Feudalism and Engineering are around and judging from tech costs, grahamiam has at least Feudalism. I hope to get a tech of two for peace from Theo in some turns at least.
http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/grs/2005819224234_map.jpg
105.96*KB
And to make it worse...one of my island towns flipped to Sumeria.
Rik Meleet
19-08-2005, 23:50
Oh man, that sucks !!! [aargh]
quote:Originally posted by Rik Meleet
Oh man, that sucks !!! [aargh]
Yes, it does, although it was far away anyways.
One turn later in 550BC I took one more town and razed another to build Richmond next to its ruins.
http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/grs/20058211002_home.jpg
134.2*KB
Meanwhile the Spanish are down to one island town - which will only last a turn or two - unless grahamiam has made temporary peace with Isabella.
http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/grs/200582110113_spain.jpg
65.99*KB
Demographics are still not that bad, but I can guess who is first in productivity...
http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/grs/200582110229_demo.jpg
27.68*KB
bed_head7
21-08-2005, 10:08
May I ask why you decided to raze Heraclea? It looks like it is in a better spot than Richmond is. Of course, I cannot see the "big picture" so perhaps I am missing something.
bed_head7
21-08-2005, 10:09
Oh wait, are you planning to put a city two NE of where Heraclea is? It looks like there might be a fish out there that I hadn't noticed before.
quote:Originally posted by bed_head7
May I ask why you decided to raze Heraclea? It looks like it is in a better spot than Richmond is. Of course, I cannot see the "big picture" so perhaps I am missing something.
Mainly because I wanted to have the dyes inside my borders immediately. And yes, there is a fish I can grab with a city later. I have much room to backfill since Theo did not settle the jungle/mountain region.
Some turns later I advanced by founding Gloucester, Cambridge and Exeter in former Byzantine territory. I also took Adrianople and got my 1st MGL. Since I quelled resistance there and will take or raze Adrianople in 2 turns I am tempted to build the forbidden palace in Adrianople after that. Too risky?
http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/grs/200593182752_front.jpg
122*KB
Techwise I am backwards, but I hope to get at least Feudalism or Engineering for peace from Theo; I'd better get both.
http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/grs/200593182653_tech.jpg
19.97*KB
Another idea is shipping over to Ur and take the Great Library. I started some more galleys at least.
And finally the minimap and demographics.
http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/grs/20059318277_minimap.jpg
20.58*KB
http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/grs/200593182725_demo.jpg
63.86*KB
Meanwhile...
http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/grs/2005923225013_again.jpg
I took it and another town. So this is my main in 310BC.
http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/grs/200592323031_map.jpg
115.29KB
Grahamian had a flip too. One of the captured cities on his main flipped back to Spain.
290 BC - Getting better in tech and production.
Before. Grahamiam has Feudalism, Monotheism and Egineering.
http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/grs/20059241268_tech_situation_before.jpg
51.87KB
Engineering for Monotheism from the Vikings.
http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/grs/200592412620_eng_for_mono_from_vikings.jpg
37.94KB
Feudalism for Monotheism and Engineering from Spain.
http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/grs/200592412632_feud_for_mono_and_eng_from_spain.jpg
39.47KB
No one has a tech I don't, but Monarchy. Not sure why graham always leaves me the opportunity to trade myself back!?
Leader of the pack in food and lux.
http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/grs/200592412649_f11_getting_closer.jpg
62.56KB
quote:Originally posted by grs
... Not sure why graham always leaves me the opportunity to trade myself back!? ...
Why not. Should he just gift these missing techs to AI? Just to make sure you don't trade? But these trades are actually making certain AIs stronger IMO. So, depending on the situation, he can choose as to which AIs are allowed to grow and become stronger as compared to those which he wants to stay weaker. Also, it is quite possible he does not care since the force to kill you has been already dispatched. Third, may be he does not care. Fourth, might be he forgot. Fifth, it is not always good to trade your way up since it might accelerate the research rate of AIs. I'm talking here mostly for GOTM and SG style gaming. So, he's trying to keep AIs down, you are worried about yourself being up in science and this might actually work to benefit some particular AIs.
quote:Originally posted by akots
quote:Originally posted by grs
... Not sure why graham always leaves me the opportunity to trade myself back!? ...
Why not. Should he just gift these missing techs to AI? Just to make sure you don't trade? Yes, that would be what I would have done, get all lose cash and take away my trading opportunities.
quote:Originally posted by akots
But these trades are actually making certain AIs stronger IMO. So, depending on the situation, he can choose as to which AIs are allowed to grow and become stronger as compared to those which he wants to stay weaker. We both are already stronger than every single AI, at least we have the larger and better empire, so no AI will be any threat.
quote:Originally posted by akots
Also, it is quite possible he does not care since the force to kill you has been already dispatched. Could be, but me getting Feudalism and Engineering by that trades won't help him, wouldn't it? But maybe you know more that I do, being allowed to read his spoiler ;)
quote:Originally posted by akots
Third, may be he does not care. Fourth, might be he forgot. Not sure what that should tell me besides that I am a moron even asking that question.
quote:Originally posted by akots
Fifth, it is not always good to trade your way up since it might accelerate the research rate of AIs. I'm talking here mostly for GOTM and SG style gaming. So, he's trying to keep AIs down, you are worried about yourself being up in science and this might actually work to benefit some particular AIs. That would be ok in single player. Maybe graham will enlighten me, once he killed me!?
quote:Originally posted by grs
... But maybe you know more that I do, being allowed to read his spoiler ...
Well, yesterday he did not update his spoiler yet, so I had no idea. Today he updated it and I have to shut up on these issues.
I guess it will be decided soon. This is the tech situation.
http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/grs/2005109183419_tech.jpg
94.79KB
Grahamiam seems to completely skip Knights for sure now. Also he doesn't race for Cavalries.
Peace with Theo runs out in 4 turns and I will take her last city in 5. I will have Navigation in 7 and will ship over the ocean the long way then. Can I damage him sufficiently to win then?
http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/grs/200510918393_minimap.jpg
24.09KB
barbu1977
09-10-2005, 19:17
Killing Theo will lower the price of the techs you have monopoly, (lowering also price of the techs you opponent knows and you do not know)
Therefore, it might be a good idea to keep some evil around if you race for cavs.
I killed Theo - saw no use in keeping her around and still had the flip risk. Chemistry and Banking are shared between the AI now and I am one turn from Navigation. I am not sure I will really ship over to graham because it seems I am already too late and I don't have the stack of ~20 knights I wanted to have.
What a nice trade!
http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/grs/2005101521574_trade.jpg
105.09KB
Also got Banking straight for Navigation.
That is the tech situation now.
http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/grs/2005101522839_tech.jpg
94.87KB
I changed plans and will not attack graham soon.
Grahamian landed. He crossed on of my caravels some turns ago and had to sink it, so I knew he would come. He allied the Vikings and I allied the Portugese. I was quite sure he wanted to sneak attack near London before I get my Man-O-Wars and I was correct. A small stack of 3 knights was landed near newcastle. I was successfull in destroying it:
quote:cat bombards knight, but misses
cat bombards knight, but misses
elite knight (-4) kills vet knight
vet knight (-0) kills vet knight and promotes vet knight dies to vet knight (-3) elite horse (-2) kills wounded vet knight
One turn later he landed 21 vet knights and a 8HP-knight army next to London. I about to 20 units in reach, but:
quote:vet knight dies to knight army (-3)
vet knight dies to knight army (-1), promotes
vet knight dies to knight army (-1)
vet knight (-3) promotes killing vet knight
vet knight dies to vet knight (-2)
vet knight dies to vet knight (-3)
vet knight dies to vet knight (-1)
vet knight (-2) kills vet knight
vet knight (-3) kills vet knight
vet knight (-0) kills vet knight
vet knight (-1) kills vet knight
vet kinght dies to vet knight (-3), promotes
vet kinght dies to vet knight (-3), promotes elite
knight dies to vet knight (-1)
vet horse dies to vet knight
vet korse dies to vet knight (-1), promotes
vet horse dies to vet knight (-1)
elite knight dies to vet knight (-1)
Game over.
Pastorius
20-11-2005, 11:44
ouch
vBulletin® v3.7.3, Copyright ©2000-2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.