***SPOILER*** NH1

[digger760]

Well Wildfire has added his spoiler thread, it its not as interesting unless you can see the other side of the story.

Players are

Napolean Hitler Spain
Digger760 Carthage
Wildfire Persia
Sashaddin Japan

More to follow (except for you wildfire[slay])

[digger760]

I took over for Carthage from Borealis in 2390BC. Wildfire took over for Essex about the same time i think. It is now roughly 1475BC.

First peice of hassle i had was that Borealis had a settler on automatic movement heading somewhere to the north of Utica. First turn i let it go, i would think about where to settle next turn. Wilrfire had a warror about 2 squares away. since this was my first PBEM i was thinking the enemy was like AI and would leave my settler alone during peace. Second auto move brings it next to wildfire, and that was the end of the settler[B)]. I had a warrior over near Persia, so i pillaged a few squares, wildfire brought over his warrior, which he plonked on my road between Utica and Carthage, fortunatly i had just built my first Numidian Mercanary, so out he went along the road..end of warrior hello golden age.

In the golden age i managed to build 2 more settlers out of Carthage and a few warriors. Another Numidian Merc from Utica. Settled Leptis Magna, there is iron in the mountain just south of here. That was an aggressive settle that upset Napolean Hitler, but i wanted that iron. From what i can gather Spain dosn't have iron.

on 1525 BC I negotiated a trade deal with Spain I gave wheel for Mystacism, next turn i sold Masonry for 20 gold. I am currently building a few warriors and saving up some cash. It is in the back of my mind to use the cash to upgrade warriors to swords and bring Spain back down to size, although i don't want this game to end as an ancient age slog fest. Besides that Myself and Spain seem to be on good terms at the moment. Napolean hitler reseached mystasism just for our trade deal, so he sounds like a good nieghbour.

Anyway enough chat here is the 1525BC screen shot.



http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/digger760/200342575631_nh1_1525BC.jpg
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[digger760]

1300BC This turn i discovered horseback riding. I have discussed with Napolean Hitler that we would exchange this tech for polyethism when he discovers it, which according to him is about another 2 or 4 turns away.

Wildfire does not have horsback riding so i sent him an offer, i did'nt ask for anything in particular but if he has a tech of the same cost or can offer me the money equivalent then i will be happy. That way Napolean Hitler wont be able to sell my horsback riding tech to Wildfire.

I have explored to the north east and south east of carthage. there maybe be room for about 2 cities to the north east. To the south east i found 2 elephant lux next to each other, about 5 squares straight down from carthage. Carthage is 1 turn away from the next settler, so that will be my next site, i hop to cut Napolean hitler off from settling around there as well.

I have 2 vet swords in Leptis-Magna, i am waiting for another warrior to be upgraded to a sword. I am considering attacking Napolean Hitler's city to the south east of Leptis-Magna, according to the miltary advisor my army is better than his (also i need to cut him back to size while i have the iron advantage)

I have a few turns to wait...i am looking for a better excuse to attack him, if he re-negs on the trade or trades with wildfire instead or something like that..or he moves a warrior onto my turf. Plus i will move the worker to build a road on the plains east of Leptis Magna, then my swords can move from Leptis Magna to the square next to the Spanish city of interest in 1 turn [}:)]

[anarres]

digger, don't bother waiting for an excuse. ;)

[digger760]

here is a pic at the start of 1300BC

The barb camp was destroyed, the elephants are next it. The injured warrior is to return to Carthage and heal, the warrior in Carthage is to get upgraded to sword. The warrior down south will protect the new city (when built)

A road is to be built on the plains east of Leptis Magna


http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/digger760/20035913611_1300bc.jpg
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[digger760]

Wildfire has accepted to but horsback riding for 80 gold. By my calculations it cost 100gold to develop (small map, regent). He initally offered 60 for it.

The deal with Napolena Hitler is got Philosophy not Polyethism, still horsback riding has a cost factor of 5 and philosphy 6, so its still a good swap for me.

digger760

[digger760]

Wildfire has asked for an alliance, via a PM on civfanatics, although he never went into any detail about what he wanted out of it.

Personally I would be interested in some help against Naplolean Hitler, the size of his country worries me, trading partners would also be good, however i would like him to keep his greedy warriors off my turf...there is still some bad blood from the previous war.

So i have replied to him telling him of my intentions and also asking him what his plans are.

here is the PM message

quote:
WildFire444 wrote on May 11, 2003 08:41 PM:
Do you wish to be allies in NH1?



Sounds like a worthwhile pursuit. What exactly did you have in mind. Right of Passage, Miltary Alliance, Trading Alliance?

Given the bad blood created during our last war, the people of Carthage would be upset to let Persian soldiers onto our soil, so I would not be interested at this stage of any sort of right of passage.

Trading could be beneficial to both of us, i would be interested in developing a research plan (ie i research 1 tech and you research another, then we swap).

Trading maps would be good as well, but somebody needs to establish and embassy with the other. I suppose i could do that with the money you said you'd offer me for horseback riding.

I'm not going to discuss any military alliance yet. I'm on good terms with Napolean Hitler, i don't want to get involved in any bad blood between you and him.

So tell me what you had in mind

digger760

[digger760]

found Wildfire on AIM last night for the first time, here is the chat log

digger760: Hi there Wildfire
Wildfire444: hi digger
Wildfire444: never seen u on aim
digger760: yea finally installed it on my home pc
digger760: i'm not staying on long, so what about this alliance you speak of
Wildfire444: :)
Wildfire444: we attack napoleon
digger760: well i hav'nt got much in the way of attacking forces, i was
interested in one of his cities howwever
digger760: and i think i can take it ;)
Wildfire444: I am not interesting in his cities because of the jungle
Wildfire444: but havin a rep would be nice ;) I am not a nice player :-D
digger760: so why do you want to attack him, i would take the brunt
Wildfire444: I want to attack because I like war
Wildfire444: ;)
Wildfire444: :evil:
Wildfire444: but it would have to wait
digger760: i'm using imici those smilies don't work in this
Wildfire444: because I would need horsies and archers and maybe swords
Wildfire444: i know
Wildfire444: I just use :evil: around CFC'ers cause they know what it implies ;)
digger760: so you speak of an alliance very early on then, but have nothing to
back it up yet
Wildfire444: no not yet an alliance
Wildfire444: later in the game
Wildfire444: when he expands too far and I need to push him back
digger760: how do i know your not some NH spy
Wildfire444: thats the problem with paranoid people
Wildfire444: u never know
digger760: i'm glad he's settl;ing between you and me
digger760: have you traded with him
Wildfire444: yeah
Wildfire444: plus I want my golden age
Wildfire444: uh i think so
Wildfire444: tech
digger760: i got my golden age beating up your warrior ;)
Wildfire444: we could be trading partners too when we get harbors
Wildfire444: oh? thought he died from a warrior
digger760: hehehe
Wildfire444: damn
Wildfire444: wanna know what sucks?
digger760: you moved onto the road the trun he was built
Wildfire444: lol oops
Wildfire444: my capital is on iron
Wildfire444: no freakin warriors and that hurt
digger760: only for the connected cities though
Wildfire444: yeah
Wildfire444: my land sucks though
Wildfire444: but i should have enough for awhile without going south too much
digger760: its not great over my way except for teh captital
Wildfire444: my capital sucks
digger760: 3 flooded plains with wheat
Wildfire444: you?
Wildfire444: i have fp too
digger760: forbidden palace??? what!!
Wildfire444: fp=flood plains
digger760: ok
digger760: NH does not have iron
Wildfire444: he doesnt?
Wildfire444: nice
digger760: as far as i know, he got upset when i settled close to him to get
iron
Wildfire444: you can see his land?
Wildfire444: lol
digger760: he said i would have to find another source of iron.
Wildfire444: "Sounds like a worthwhile pursuit. What exactly did you have
in mind. Right of Passage, Miltary Alliance, Trading Alliance?"
Wildfire444: lol and u settled right?
Wildfire444: I will not take a RoP for obvious reasons
digger760: i parked Numidian merc on the iron
Wildfire444: I will accept a MA and a TA
digger760: on mountain
Wildfire444: LOL
digger760: MA?
Wildfire444: military alliance
Wildfire444: Trading could be beneficial to both of us, i would be interested
in developing a research plan (ie i research 1 tech and you research another,
then we swap).
Wildfire444: I agree with that
digger760: i doubt you will be able to back me up with MA, i'm going in in about
10 turns
Wildfire444: really?
Wildfire444: wpw
Wildfire444: wow
Wildfire444: why?
Wildfire444: I'm not going to discuss any military alliance yet. I'm on good
terms with Napolean Hitler, i don't want to get involved in any bad blood
between you and him
Wildfire444: lol guess u arent on good terms eh?
digger760: hah, only joking
digger760: nah*
Wildfire444: lol
digger760: i havt'n got the militray yet
digger760: so i've just started map making
digger760: maybe you can research something of similat value
digger760: and we can swap
Wildfire444: i have lit
digger760: lit cost factor =10, map making =12. so you'll have to give me some
money as well
Wildfire444: ....
Wildfire444: how much?
Wildfire444: i mean, u ARE in a GA
digger760: GA finished
Wildfire444: oh
Wildfire444: lol
digger760: pumped out a few num merc though
Wildfire444: nice
digger760: polyethism and map making are equal techs
Wildfire444: yeah
Wildfire444: havent found sashaddin
Wildfire444: wonder where he is
digger760: so what are you going to research?
Wildfire444: uh, I am going after I think
Wildfire444: (from memory) mathematics
digger760: ok, don't think i have that
Wildfire444: nice
digger760: math + lit = 18
Wildfire444: ok, but i aint givin u two for 1
digger760: map + philospy = 18
Wildfire444: oh ok
digger760: it will take me longer to get map making that you to get maths
digger760: but well swap when i get map making
digger760: deal?
Wildfire444: hmmm
Wildfire444: I'll think about it
Wildfire444: but it will probably be a yes
digger760: ok, i have to go now, let me know when you've decided
Wildfire444: ok later

[digger760]

not much been happening the turn got lost b/w me an wildfire for almost a week.

1250BC
Sold Horseback Riding to wildfire for 80 gold,
Upgraded regular warrior in Utica to sword,
Settler produced in Carthage, headed south for elephants, also sent warrior with him, cos of spanish warrior sniffing about the area, a wounded warrior to the north east is heading back to Carthage,
Set Carthage to Numidean Merc,
Worker produced in theveste, moved to BG to the south west...wildfire has warrior to the west(on river corner), so moved Num Merc as well to protect him

1225BC
Wildfire agreed to Philosophy and MapMaking for Lit and Maths, when we both get the techs (about 15 turns away).
Napolean Hitler offered Philosphy, have offered Horsback Riding in return.
Moved reg sword from Utica to Leptis Magna, (which now has 3 swords)
Wounded warrior moves into Carthage,
Wildfire warrior appears to have fortified on the river corner, so worker is safe enough, worker starts mining bg, moved Num Merc back into Theveste
Noticed Spanish reg spear in mountains, south east of toledo, i wonder if he is moving to the city i had my eye on?
Worker mining hills to the west of Carthage will finsish next turn.

[digger760]

1100BC

road is built from leptis magna to Spanish border...d-day

i establish embassy with NH...here is the Madrid city screen:
http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/digger760/200353073726_madrid1100bc.jpg
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no iron, no horses, at least for this city and i suspect that NH dosn't have iron in his territory. Also there is a spanish worker next to the border and my road...the Carthagian swords were nervous but under order they were sent across the border....destination...the spanish city pushing its borders up against the capital of Carthage

after a short march the Carthagian swords come across spanish civilians in wooded land (building a road i think) i have been short of workers, they will do well to improve lands around Utitca when its borders expand due to a recent temple build.

The spanish workers were next to that spanish city of Barcelona

http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/digger760/200353074522_war1100bc.jpg
84.07KB


tune in next turn to see what happens

[digger760]

got the turn from NH yesterday, he posted a scary message with his email something like:

"So this is how Carthage treats is valuble trading partners.

Lets see how your Numidean Mercenaries do against Immortals."

wow...did he manage to pull Wildfire in on his side? I still doubt it..it serves wildfire to have NH1 and myself fighting...if anything wildfire would be willing to help me at this stage considering our relative strenghts.

Interesting though NH was offering peace when i opened the sav. I declined. Another thing i noticed was that wildfire warrior had dissappeared away from the river bend near Murcia.

Any way as luck would have it
1st vet sword lost to reg spear without the spear being scratced.
2nd vet sword lost and still not a scratch on the spear. i think the speart got promoted here as well.
3rd reg sword brought the spear to red, but then lost.

Well......[mad]........BUGGER........

OK, lets try that peace offer again [sad]

[digger760]

there is more going on in this game between turns that during turns....you gotta love MP civ.

Played my turn this morning as normal.. cos i'm on dial up at home i don't read CFC or CDZ. I get to work and read that wildfire has taken a city from Spain with one crappy archer...i did an invetigation of barcelona to see that there is one spear (elite thanks to me). I could have had that city :(

Wildfire must have declared war the same turn NH and myself declared peace. I am pretty certain NH had gone to wildfire for an ally but wildfire rejected him...big time..thus NH was willing to make peace quickly..even though i had lost my entire offesive force (i suppose NH dosn't know that).

I reckon NH wont declare peace to easily with wildfire if he dosn't have to worry about me...so i decided to comfort him a little...i sent an email which basically stated the following:

He is knackered without iron.
I could give him iron for Barcelona, a few techs* an elephant luxury and long term peace.
I want all the land east and north east of Carthage.
NH to make suggestions of what he would like.


*unspecified but if my trade deal with wildfore goes through..then Map Making and Literature..maybe mathematics, but i suspect he already has it)

Here is what i didn't say to him:
I am safe enough against swords with Numidian mercs.
I would ally with NH against wildfire for long term peace.
i am sharing research with wildfire and will try to keep that going as long as we are at peace.

On a side note i established an embassy with wildfire. Persiopolous is very strong compared to any of my cities[sad]. I will have to let Carthage grow...which should'nt be hard since it has 3 flooded wheat plains.

[digger760]

1000BC Diplo screen has wildfire and NH at peace...NH had previously mentioned he might be willing to trade barcelona...now i'm not so sure. I also noticed that i am not able to offer philosophy to wildfire anymore..obvisously they have traded.

I am building a temple in Carthage now...time to put cultural pressure on barcelona. (i am also losing 1 worker to unhappiness)

[digger760]

wildfire has posted a nasty message in CFC...as far as i knew we were not in any miltary alliance, just a trading alliance. We'll i hope i can slavage something for map making...i need him if we are to beat NH

[digger760]

nh offered literature....well i wonder what wildfire thinks of this, we were supposed to have a deal, but he has sold out already. These guys are making offers but i'm the one doing all the talking and haggling..whats the chances they are passing my emails onto each other. Maybe i can sell map making to both of them for lit and maths. Thats sounds fair to all parties then.

[digger760]

825BC

Traded Map Making with Wildfire for Maths
Traded Map Making with NH for Literature

Apparently Sashddin, who seems to off an an island of his own has built the Great Libary.

[ERIKK]

wow, you were unlucky in that attack!!!

Keep it up!

[digger760]

775BC Researching Polyethism...have deal to trade Code of Laws with NH when he gets that. Have agreed with NH to trade embargo against wildfire, for an unspecified length of time. Wildfire has been quite unwilling to to discuss anything at all or suggest any trades hence the reason for the embargo (except for maps). NH and myself wanted to keep this agreement secret, which on retro spect wounds a bit suspicious, either NH has the same type of deal with wildfire and is benefitting greatly or he is scared of the immortals (which is my reason for keeping it secret). I suggested selling him my only iron source, which he warmed to but i am not 100% sure of that yet, NH is twice wildfire and myself in size and even with archers he should be able to fight off immortals in defense (given he should be able to produce archers in greater numbers).

I am blocking wildfire's warrior between utica and theveste from exploring into my territory. Maybe this will encourage him to diplomacy.

In other news, i decided to rush some walls in theveste, corruption is slowing me down there, so i might as well waste of the population by whipping them before they revolt at a larger size. Carthage is building another settler after completing a temple. I really need to fill the empty land to the north east which has room for at least 3 cities. I have roaded the horses to the north east, but i could have done better by improving land near utica, i don't need those horses yet. Uticia is now building ver swords...too many Num Mercs would be a waste, i only really need 1 for each city. Better to have a bit of sting in the tail i think.

[anarres]

This game is impressive. It will be interesting to see if you can WF can get it together enough to beat NH.

[digger760]

NH is scared of both wildfire and myself cos he dos'nt have horses or iron.

[digger760]

wildfire did'nt want to trade maps
sold maths to nh for his WM, then wildifre wanted to trade, so traded WM for WM. Sold WM back to nh for 20 gold.

[hmm]
http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/digger760/200371475736_nh1_WM.jpg
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and here is the homeland
http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/digger760/200371475833_nh1_690BC.jpg
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[digger760]

small update - 30BC

Wildfire and NH are at war, Wildfire has taken Seville and according to reports is close to taking Madrid. I gave iron to NH for free and have moved some mercs onto mountains to defend the approaches to Toledo. I have also moved a merc onto the Gems mountain next to seville. I noticed a stack of 3 immotals between seville and Salamanca

I am neutral at this stage but am sort of like america in WW2 before they declared war on germany...in this case Wildfire is Germany.

[digger760]

Some Negotiations between 30BC and 10BC

I had sent an email to NH previous to this that i would support him in a war, i had given him my source of iron for free and was beginning to move troops towards madrid (wildfire was supposedly building up in this area)

Email Conversation between Wildfire and Digger
(Wildire is unaware of my suspicions against him)

START OF EMAILS
Wildfire: so... we gonna be alligned are am I going to war against you too?

Digger760: that sounds like blackmail to me!

Wildfire: dont like mercenaries gettin comfertable around me.
(ED: I moved one Numidian Mercanary onto a gem mountain near seville)

digger760: they are just having a look
(ED:which was true, i only had 2 swords and a merc else were near Madrid, still Spanish)

Wildfire: ok, Thanks! Was hoping that, just making sure.
(ED:crikey i need to tell this guy of my suspicions against him or i will ruin my rep)

Wildfire: well... i was scared that he was a guy that was leading a bunch more. Sorry for being a little mean ;)
So your neutral throughout our war?

digger760: well i am getting nervous that you will go to far. I can't let you get to powerful. How far do you plan to go?

Wildfire: maybe take the capital and go west. Don't worry, all that land is your's down south for the time being. IF we stay allies that is. Sorry for "blackmail" but I can assure you that I won't attack you for at LEAST 20 turns (probably more but I dont feel like thinkin that hard)
(ED: meaning Madrid and Salamanca, we had previously discussed dividing up NH, this way but i have changed my mind, nh seems like a valuable ally, were as wildfire motives are more suspect, at least in my reading of his emails)

END OF EMAIL CONVERSATION

Ok i need to fess up i send an email to both of them:

Ok this is my attempt for getting the nobel peace
prize.

START OF GROUP EMAIL BETWEEN digger760, wildfire and NH

What are the chance's of getting you to to declare peace. I cannot sit on the fence for much longer, over the past few weeks i keep changing my mind on my course of action, i have mislead or been undesive with
you both at certain times so i have decided to openly declare support for one player or another.

As it stands i would have to favour NH for any military support. But i would like for a more peaceful solution.

So wildfire will you be prepared to declare peace, or face both nh and myself?

nh are you prepared to accept peace and accept the loss of Seville?

And the possible outcomes
Wildfire or NH does'nt want peace: then we are at war. Spain and Carthage vs Persia. This will weaken the whole continent to the extent that Sashaddin could take an uncatchable lead.

NH and wildfire accept peace. now this will take some resolving, i will have to leave you guys to fill this part...as in what you will
accept for peace. But at least we can keep up with Sash this way.

(I removed the bit about teaming up an sash...just as well cos wildfire published this in the CFC open thread)

digger760

And the replies (to all except Sash):

NH: I would be willing to accept peace, but I would like Seville back. However, I would let Persia keep Murcia, the first city they took from me. My reason for this is Persia has plenty of land of his own....if he would just get his own lazy butt to settle it.

~NH (Laser)

Wildfire: Digger, Thanks for not backstabbing but than again, you might as well of because I still hate u just as much (just for this pbem) because of ur decieving playing style. I will not trade any luxuries or techs with u the rest of this game

Digger: Well that is understandable, i can't speak for nh, but i think i am a better trading partner for him than for you, so you might be cutting your ties a bit to soon by avoiding any more trades for the rest of the game.

How about a cool down period until 500AD.

I don't know if nh will accept peace for seville, but how do we know you wont turn you immortals towards me. Hehe i think it would be much harder for you, but you seem to have a bit of built up anger and i can for see you expending that anger with the use of immortals as
a bit of civ therapy.

Can we agree to a certain amount of time for continental peace...lets see i think 250AD is 10 turns (at 20 years apart), 500AD is another 25 turns (10 years apart) So how about a 35(?) turn peace deal, to 500AD.

digger760

Wildfire: The leader of the Persians has already promised the Carthaginians that and won't attack them for 35 turns. Spain will be attacked if he keeps demanding Seville. If he doenst want seville, then peace is fine with me.

NH: That's fine. Though I would like Seville, I won't make an issue out of it. Peace is better than Seville.

PEACE IS DECLARED IN 10BC

Digger760: There was no mention of how many turns Spain gets in that peace deal. My concern is that if you have made some deal that involves X amount of turns and you attack after X amount of turns, but NH comes to me and says you broke the deal and he says it was X + 10 turns. Who am I to beleive?

Carthage still views Persains expansionist ambitions with suspicion, but will respect the peace treaty and the peace deal to 500AD (i'm not sure if thats 35 turns or not, so lets just say 500AD to be certain).

NH you have to take this into consideration. Persia has me tied to peace until then...i see no guarantee for your security in that time frame, you better start building defence instead of building damn wonders (which make good targets i might add).

END OF GROUP EMAIL


Private Email to NH
digger760: I have currency in 5 turns...dont tell me you were
researching that....please!!!

If you're researching something else i would be
interested in trading.

In a couple of turns i will have Ivory as well as Dye
to Trade :) Only problem is i have limited trading
partners :(

[Skyfish]

Nice and interesting diplomacy episod...

Thanks for the update Digger !

[digger760]

Some more diplomacy:


Wildfire: Persia WILL honor its peace with Carthage unless declared war upon by the Carthaginians. Spain however, should be wary as a war
could start 3, 6, 9 turns from now.

NH: What kinda crappy peace deal is that? If you want Sashaddin to win, just say so. All I know is you won't find it easy taking me down in 3,
6, or 9 turns...or even 50 for that matter. You'll run yourself into the ground trying, and your Golden Age only lasts 20 turns. If it isn't over
yet, it will be soon, and then you're in real trouble if you are still trying to take me down.

Also, I'm gonna threaten right now that I would give my lands to Sash if you 2 double teamed me again, and if you wanna sit on the
sideline and watch Persia destroy me first, only to run over you next, Carthage, then I may give my stuff to Sash anyways.

Laser


I am yet to respond

[digger760]

I decided not to respond to wildfire or nh's email, there was no need, they both know my position, weather it is the right decision i am not sure. I do not want to let wildfire get the upper hand on the continent, but we have moved into the middle ages, NH is close to fuedalism, he is using my source of iron and it sounds as though he can look after himself. I have decided to trust wildfire to hold his peace deal until 500AD, to my understanding we never before had a set a time frame for peace. Now that he's knows a set date, hopefully that will improve a diplomatic relations.

Meanwhile i have continued my offer of friend ship to NH, I have gifted him a spare source of ivory. I dont seem to be getting much back at the moment, but hopefully he will be able to offer me gems soon.

The year is 110AD, we still have peace, wildfire has a few (4) immortals lurking near the border with me, but he will have a hard time attacking me. All my cities near the border are founded on hills, have city walls and are defended by Numidian mercs. i also have placed a merc on a mountain near Seville to disuade him from moving in to Utica from over the mountains.

My biggest threat at the moment seems to be a from a horde of Barbarian horseman that have emerged to the north (approx 10-12 of them). I have a sword and a warrior in a city with city walls, we are playing regent so that might be enough to hold them off. I am sending a up merc and a sword just in case.

Power ranking: Japan, Persia, Spain, Carthage,
Culture ranking: Japan, Spain, Persia, Carthage
Military: Persia, Carthage, Spain, Japan


Here are the demographics:
http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/digger760/2003107115623_F11_110AD.JPG
87.82KB

And Home sweet home with the minimap
http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/digger760/200310711577_NH_110AD.JPG
115.7KB


There seems to be a nice uninhabited island just to my north. If i can keep Spain and Persia distracted i might be ablt to claim it as my own ;)

[anarres]

That looks highly risky, sending your forces abroad. Having said that your only other real option is to take some Spanish territory to nail them before their GA...

[digger760]

NH has some issues to sort with Wildfire first of all, he has two cities to re-capture. Since i have been very generous to NH, i think he will be reluctant to betray me.

I wont be sending any forces abroad, except maybe the odd settler/merc combo. There is room for 5 or so cities up there.