View Full Version : Deathmatch IV - Discussion Thread
Introduction
Matrix introduced the Deathmatch (DM) concept which ultimately resulted in the very dynamic DM III won by Domination by the author of this piece of proza. Revenge feelings never left akots and Matrix so they were eager to sign up for DM IV as was Dell who also has to settle a bill with said author ;) and as a matter of coincedence was looking to start a 4-player game.
What's a Deathmatch?
Matrix made this into a plain and simple concept. Each player starts with all techs available, worked and settled lands, most if not all improvements in all cities, most Wonders obsolete and a small but nice Army to start with. In other words, main focus is on the military to get each other down. [charge]
What's so nice about it?
The straight goal and the many, many options to achieve that goal. DM III learned that it really is a game of combined arms and theatre awareness.
What will be different compared with DMIII?
The map can make a huge difference and should be balanced without being identical from each players starting perspective. Some new units add juice to combined arms / theatre awareness. Like the Russian Alfa attack sub and spy satellites (will post some pix when back home). Some units probably need to be more balanced as well. Last but not least incorporating Kingreno's Small Wonders producing units is a nice addition.
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Right now we are with 4 players and my personal experience is that the more players there are in a game the higher the chances it stagnates. So, is this the optimal number or can there be more players without the game stagnating to often?
Maptype? Pelago really is very nice for combined long range arms, but other maps might give quicker gameplay?
Which units need to be balanced, if any? ICBM's seem to be overpowered for example.
Feedback appreciated. :)
PS: 20th Century Contest isn't dead, but a more challenging project than this one.
How about we start in at the end of the Industrial Age?
Yes, I completely agree with matrix on this. It might be not exactly the Death Match but the concept would still remain. We can move nukes a bit further up the tech tree and free some room for slaughtering each other with more conventional weapons. We can have all mandatory techs from IA leaving combined arms and amphibious warfare to research.
The concept of ICBM is not very appealing either. Tactical nukes are more than enough especially considering the SDI small wonder is moved down the tech tree. If the game is to be traitless, the idea of making Manhattan a small wonder is worth consideration which means no Golden Age ever. Or there might be some civ-specific units which make GA possible like specific Russian Sub or American fighter plane or Chinese guerilla or something else.
IMHO, we should start in Republic but not in Democracy like it was in a previous game since ww is a huge issue in these games. Also, I disliked the concept of possible trading luxuries in that other game and would suggest that all players start in locked war against each other. This excludes trading of resources and luxuries and techs between players although still permits espionage and military alliances (not on paper but de facto). There is also a possibility of having more balanced map.
These are just random thoughts without much thinking on the matters.
Kingreno
24-03-2005, 10:34
If you guys want I can make a map.
No prob for me starting in the late IA, I'd also like to have Dell's feedback.
Not sure about locked in wars, I like the prospect of being able to trade, even in a war game.
At work, so can't spend a lot of time now, more this weekend.
Shabbaman
24-03-2005, 11:10
DM3 was a race towards completion of the SDI. To me, that doesn't seem like a lot of fun. (at least, taking over from someone who thinks the SDI wouldn't be necessary isnt' that much fun). A game with a lot of room for strategy and tactical manoevres is good though.
Alt+u all your tanks to modern armor >>> having no SDI
Modern armors proved to be a nuisance since all resources went to ICBM and it was indeed a key. Tanks were good only to wrap up what has been already evident. Just remembered killing 25 or so Modern Armors landed by Matrix in a single turn without losses. Also, luxuries and resources were of extreme importance. That is the reason for no trades between players. Once Uranium is disconnected for a few turns, game is over. Same goes for luxuries. Also, IMHO, we may try to play without settlers. And on a Standard map with more cities. And with less ridiculous improvements like temples whose only purpose was to feed the nuclear race. At least having a possibility to research will prolong the life of Universities and Libraries for a few extra turns. [evil]
quote:Originally posted by Kingreno
If you guys want I can make a map.
[coool]Many thinks for that, are you aware it also includes setting up cities, adding buildings etc.? And I recommend to wait until I've completed the mods, I found some Tutorials at CFC how to add units, buildings and wonders including graphics and civilopedia. :) The hardest part actually is finding nice graphics, from there it is pretty straight forward.
[quote]Originally posted by Shabbaman
You heritaged a nice fleet of Carriers tough, pity there were no planes to load.
But indeed, balancing the nukes is one of the key challenges. We might skip ICBM's altogether which means the delivery of Tactical becomes a challenge.
@akots, we can propose and agree on a typical buildings list for each city (*: if applicable):
- Barracks
- Granary
- Marketplace
- Aquaduct *
- Hospital
- Bank
- Stock Exchange
- Library
- University
- Harbor *
- Offshore Platform *
- Factory
- Mass Transit
- Recycling Center
- Airport
- Civil Defense
- ...
Great Wonders are either obsolete (majority) or become Small Wonders so every player can choose to build Hoovers or not for example.
Offshore Platform required Miniaturization which is Modern tech and Recycling center - Mass Transit also belongs to Modern Age. It might be possible to move them down though.
There were Mass Transits during WWII at least in major cities, so no big deal here. But pollution was terrible. We also will need Courthouses everywhere except capital. And may be Commercial docks are worth having as well. We can live without Offshore platforms and Recycling centers IMO, just give more starting workers (1 per each city at least), may be make them industrious. This is pure routine after all.
We can take from WWII in the Pacific the ability of Destroyers to carry one unit on them. And may be worth having extra hit points on units. I've been playing and studying recently the Barbarossa scenario by Sarevok/Rocotech. Even had a dream when my grandfather came to me and said I must play PBEM with this scenario against Aggie. Madness is so close sometimes...
Well, regarding this scenario, they have fancy graphics and good animation. May be Sarevok will allow to borrow a few pieces of art from there. And the combat is greatly increased by having 4-hp conscripts, 5-hp regulars, and 6-7-hp elites (similar to TAM). Believe me, it is much batter and underpowers arty and bombard in general which is actually way overpowered. I'd also give air units lethal land and sea bombardment.
I udnerstand, this is a different game I'm talking about, so no problem if we decide to stick with more traditional way.
Indeed, I'd prefer to start with simple mods and gradually add when it is clear it really adds something. Less-is-more approach. I'd like to reduce pollution from pop and shields however, I'll see what is possible.
Hi just posting to say that I've found the thread. :)
I've read the current ideas with interest, don't really have much to add at the moment.
Kingreno
24-03-2005, 14:42
I can make a slightly modded map, including some requests in it, but I do want to have some creative liberties as making this map will take plenty of time, and tends to get boring if it is just an "order".:)
My idea to make things a bit more appealing:
Reduce costs of: Fighters, stealth-fighters and jet Fighters, Paratroopers.
Increase costs of: Submarines, Bombers, Marines
Massively increase costs of Nukes. (It is just not right that 4 Tanks equal a Tactical Nuke in costs...)
Make buildings in the Modern Era more worthwhile to build.
Add small wonders that Produce Units.
Map: A Varied map with enough Sea to have naval opperations in.
Kingreno
25-03-2005, 12:28
I am making it now.
I will post some screenies after it's made and then you guys can decide what you want out/in/added.
mkay?
Reno, I'd really appreciate you use the biq I've prepared. I'll be home later today and have some time to chat.
Kingreno
25-03-2005, 13:43
[sad] You could have mentioned thatearlier. If there already is a biq then what have I been doing for two hours now?
quote:Originally posted by Kingreno
[sad] You could have mentioned thatearlier. If there already is a biq then what have I been doing for two hours now?
Sorry you spend the time already, however see my post of yesterday:
quote:...I recommend to wait until I've completed the mods...
Let's chat how we can combine the 2.
OK, we sorted out how to handle this.
KR progressed pretty well with the map so we decided he will finish it, then I will edit the new units in. We will play with a revealed map anyway so I don't benefit from map knowledge. The other variation is in what is in each city but it is nearly invisible in the editor so I hope you trust me there.
I'll post the suggested new stuff later today, but it includes:
- Alfa SSN. Very fast and powerful attack sub (not a boomer, so carries no nukes)
- Satellite. Worldwide recon, nothing else.
- Area 51. Small wonder. Produces a Stealth Bomber every turn.
quote:Originally posted by akots
Even had a dream when my grandfather came to me and said I must play PBEM with this scenario against Aggie. Madness is so close sometimes...
[blink] http://www.straland.com/images/smilies/roar.gif
Concerning mods I agree with the majority. I find it too hard to assess what changes are really necessary. I mean, I'd say starting at the end of the Industrial Age would suffice. My only fear is that you get dragged away and start adding numberous things just for fun. But Beam's recommendations sound ok. :)
I don't understand akots' point on temples and cathedrals. What's wrong with them? We start with big cities. Those cities need simply temples, don't they?
Kingreno
25-03-2005, 16:51
quote:Those cities need simply temples, don't they?
In general. No city. EVER needs a temple. and I will repeat it to anyone who will listen
Marketplaces usually are sufficient for happiness provided enough luxes, I guess KR keeps a close eye on that.
Right now the following mods are planned:
New units: Alfa SSN, Satellite
Modified units, increased price: Tactical Nukes, Bombers and Stealth Bombers
Modified units, enhanced capabilities: Paratrooper, Modern Paratrooper (to make them interesting to use)
Deleted units: ICBM
New small wonders for building the following units: Artie, Infantery (each player will get both from the start), Tanks, Fighter, Bomber, Destroyer, Battleship, MechInf, Modern Armor, Stealth Fighter, Stealth Bomber, Jet Fighter, Cruise Missile (from memory, I might have forgotten one or two)
Modified Great Wonder, becomes Small Wonder: Manhattan, Universal Suffrage
Deleted Great Wonder: Hoover, ToE, maybe more
Modified Small Wonder, available earlier: SDI
All in all KR and me chatted how to have better control over nukes, make some units more interesting and rationalize some overpowered units. Your feedback is appreciated, please post if you think something should be different. Specially in the Small Wonders for units, maybe just a couple of them would be fine as well.
Yep :) I guess once things start getting added then its likely that the game is also going to be partly a test where we can evaluate the changes.
Indeed, therefore it is best to keep the number of real changes limited. Here are the Civilopedia entries for the 2 new units btw (the Alfa might be associated with an different tech):
http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/Beam/2005325192821_Alfa.jpg
95.41KB
http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/Beam/2005325192838_Satellite.jpg
108.22KB
And the units in action:
http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/Beam/2005325192910_unitsinaction.jpg
39.46KB
Details of planned unit producing small wonders:
http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/Beam/200532519342_smallwonders.jpg
152.95KB
That's quite a lot and finding / editing a full set of graphs for each of them is a hell of a job, instead I'll make a Civilopedia entrance for each of them and some standard graphs for the Civilopedia, City screen and Splash screen.
Kingreno
25-03-2005, 19:50
Looks great!
The Small Wonder splash for the Alfa (when the small wonder producing the Alfa is build this pic will pop-up):
http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/Beam/200532520457_smalfa.jpg
15.66KB
Making Wonder Splashes now for all units in the list, using the same background. :)
A touch of art is always nice. This nighthawk fortress castle looks very appealing. I'd be tempted to build it just to look at it. :)
I'm still thinking of increasing hit points for the units. What about conscript at 3hp, regular - 4, vet - 5, and elite -6? It is not that much but will add great spice to combat. Another thing to consider is doubling all attack and defese values and making settlers cost 100 shields or more and 4 or 5 population.
quote:Originally posted by Dell19
... its likely that the game is also going to be partly a test where we can evaluate the changes.
There are multiple mods which already have these changes and these mods are very nice and tweak the game in a pleasant way. For example, TAM mod with extra hit points and doubled defense-attack in very playable and enjoyable. Other WWII and WWI mods also use similar features along with a few others. I've played a few and find them more realistic and appealing compared to rather routine C3C engine. These mods were fairly well tested and my opinion on the matters is not unique.
KR and me had a good chat about this mod today and our main focus now is to get a nice and playable map, correct overpowered units and last but not least get both of our work combined.
Just increasing hitpoints and / or doubling defense / attack values for the sake of it doesn't add much value imo (sorry my friend, I'm in a very direct mood today ;)). Settler idea sounds ok, making it more expensive to build one. For a start I propose build cost of 60 and pop cost of 4? The latter is a lot and will make it very hard to have a "Settler factory".
KR just informed me all cities are on the map, I'll have to put the mods in after that, KR then has to relocate Uranium and Aluminium because I'll have to remove my contacts and sit 10ft from the screen in order to miss them ;)
But we all will have the resources (somewhere) and map will be all improved and revealed? Like in DMIII?
Never mind, it was just a wish about hit points and indeed would yield a completely different game which could have been not so great idea, hard to tell.
Settlers sound fine with 60 shields and 4 pop.
Also a silly question. There wil be no space race victory I assume? Just Conquest and Domination?
Kingreno
25-03-2005, 23:13
As the corresponding techs for U and Al are yet to be discovered, their locations should not be known to Beam.
Finished all things for the Mod, except actually editing them in the biq. Once KR is ready it will take me about an hour of editing or so and some time to test and correct. :)
Kingreno
26-03-2005, 16:25
Biq sent!
quote:Originally posted by Beam
New small wonders for building the following units: Artie, Infantery (each player will get both from the start), Tanks, Fighter, Bomber, Destroyer, Battleship, MechInf, Modern Armor, Stealth Fighter, Stealth Bomber, Jet Fighter, Cruise Missile (from memory, I might have forgotten one or two)
What does that mean? You need to build these wonders to be able to build those units? Or such a wonder built gives such a unit every X turns?
In both cases they could've been left out IMO. http://www.straland.com/images/smilies/undecided.gif But I will you all like it... http://www.straland.com/images/smilies/modest.gif
They produce the units every X turns. I don't mind trying them.
Finished implementation of the mods and basic testing and correction. Couple of things to discuss:
- Should it be possible to trigger GA's or not? If not I'll have to do something with the few Great Wonders left.
- What government do we start with or can we choose the government ourselves?
- We all start with about 20 cities and 400 units. That means massive upkeep costs! To make that number of units bearable we would have to massively increase unit support limits, like have a certain number of units without support of increase unit / city. Your feedback appreciated.
The size of the mod is about 7 to 8MB mainly due to wondersplashes. It is easy to install and doesn't override any existing files.
Last but not least: I really recommend we do a testgame for a very few turns on a small map to make sure everything works ok.
GA - better not imho.
We can start in Republic.
That is a lot of units out there! Some increase in support would be appropriate but we can playtest this.
Kingreno
26-03-2005, 22:03
I will make it so that all can choose a Gov at the beginning of the turn.
KR proposed to have GA lenght set at 1 turn (0 turns might give unpredictable behaviour) so even if it triggers its effects are marginal, I think that's OK.
Would be fun if everybody can choose it's government at the start, we indeed should do something about unit upkeep.
Question for the Butchers: is it possible to upload a 3 MB file or is it better mailed to one of the Butchers and uploaded? Maybe more people like to try this one out.
This mammoth project is close to completion, KR and me have worked near double shifts yesterday and today and we basically can start to create the sav now. Please post your PM to the King and unzip this file in your ..\Conquests\Scenario directory. Make sure it keeps the directory paths intact! The zip also contains a biq with no map so you can see what has changed.
Placeholder for zip.
Kingreno
26-03-2005, 23:08
Map Made [dance]
Civs: 4 civs, each with equal traits, 20 cities and aprox 400 units, all carefully selceted for your needs.:D
Akots:Rome
Matrix:Egypt
Beam:Greece
Dell19:France
All are: Ind/rel/com/sea/agri/mil
the civ specific Units are a thing of the past, you shall not be able to build them.
Era: End of the IA. Motorised Transportation is the last tech to be researched to go Modern!
Mods: Uhm. yes! Well, mainly the small wonders, as in Beams table, but the Civliopedia is 99.99% up to date. Other changes include Governments, mainly the added 250 Units FREELY supported under all govts. You will understand this once you get glimpse of the map. As you will all begin in anarchy the first thing popping up is the government select screen. If you click the cross you can check out the map without moving units , reload and select a govt based on your strategy.
GA: You should not get one, though weirder things have happened. If you manage to trigger it some way you get a ONE-TURN GA. I know at least one way to get it.
Units: setler is now 4 pop and 60 shields
Great Wonders: Some have been made small. Leo's, Mahattan, suffrage and Magellan.
Small wonders: 2 have already been built! Heroic Epic and FP! the rest is normal, sort'a.
Easter Eggs: Sorry guys, I just couldn't resist. [smirk]
I have the save ready here but first you need to get some stuff installed on your PC. Mainly some folders with the new civlopedia entrees, and also a spytool that lets me see your private email. Have fun!
Edit:I made up the passwords. too late!
Thanks for all the effort you've both put into making this :)
We had a good time Dell, did you receive my mail with the files? (same for akots and Matrix?)
Not yet, what account did you send to?
Got the mail and started a game on a random map. Everything looks OK. Thanks a lot to Kingreno and Beam for this!
Noticed there are still a few Great wonders around. Not sure how it will look in the actual game. :)
Kingreno
27-03-2005, 00:03
Most great wonders are limited to Despotism so they will not show up in the scenario.
Thanks for the hard work, guys! [goodjob] Believe me, I know all about it. ;)
Update on current status of the game:
- Scenario files have been distributed to all players
- Dell and akots have confirmed that they received the files, installed them and can load in the editor and can create a game with the files (based on the empty biq)
- akots has the save and has mailed a proposal for the first 2 rounds to everybody
Who needs to do what:
- Matrix has to confirm he has the files etc.
- Matrix and Dell have to reply to akots proposal.
That's about it! I am really eager to get this one started and look at the game KR has created for us. :)
The agreement is for just the first two turns right? As in all parts of it.
Ok then I agree to it all then.
So we are waiting for Matrix then. He got both e-mail and a PM from me. Prob. he is still busy hunting easter eggs. ;)
I agree with akots' proposal and I have the files although I can't try it out, because I can't choose other civs. But I suppose the PBEM will work...
Ok, I will play the turn today finally.
Turn 1 played and sent.
@Beam: I misclicked and ended my sub's movement in your waters. Sorry about that. Feel free to do the same to me, just make sure I will be able to sail around somehow though. It was by the end of turn and I really did not want to replay it since it took about 2 hours. Sorry again.
Played and sending to Beam. The turn took an awful long time though. [sad]
Got it, I'll have a quick look but most likely play it tomorrow.
Turn 1:
Minimap and a first impression of Greek surroundings ;)
http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/Beam/2005410438_01minimapnames.jpg
42.49KB
I'm still wondering if mapmaking God has put all uranium and aluminum in the center, only one of each for all four to have. That would be a real fun then. Seems a gory game it will be with lots of bloodshed and throat cutting.
I've also noticed some cities lack some improvements occasionally. Some cities are powerhouses with every improvement but others lack a subtle touch of a smoking chimney of a coal power plant or pleasant warmth of a library or long line of people standing to get their cash from the bank depository. Or may be it is just Roman redneck states and others have everything?
Good thing, there is a plenty of units and lots of cavalry/cannon ball meat. And we are close to each other and can start hammering right away.
I assume after Dell plays the turn, we are getting into the Diplo phase... Would not be nice to have 3 against one. We better split into pairs imho.
Kingreno
01-04-2005, 10:34
Mapmakers note.
Whenever you find a city "lacking" a certain improvemnt that was done so willingly. I made a list of the ammount of buildings everyone should have and that means some cities still need a University, Colloseum or another building. Whether you build these instead of units is one of the challenges of the map. :)
For those of you that make a spoiler there is one extra hint about the game.
The middle looks interesting.
Matrix has crossed the sea border repeatedly. Obviously I'm not going to try and get people to replay the turn but it would be nice if those units could be on the right side next turn.
I thought the rule was not to enter each other's territory. Pardon me. [blush]
By the way, my hair is dyed back to dark blonde about a month ago. [tongue] After the purple turned to pink. [xx(]
quote:Originally posted by akots
I assume after Dell plays the turn, we are getting into the Diplo phase... Would not be nice to have 3 against one. We better split into pairs imho.
Are we splitting into pairs?
Are we going to discuss diplo in the open thread? It is supposed to be secret. ;)
quote:After the purple turned to pink.
The whole gay community in Hoogkerk must have gone crazy. [kiss]
quote:Are we splitting into pairs?
[dunno] As I think that will regulate itself I do not see a need to regulate it in an open discussion.
Been [ponder] [ponder] a little as well if we need specific rules discussions. Since all of us are CDZ regulars we all are pretty familiar with the going here and in all of the one or more PBEMs I've played with you here I never saw a reason to assume one of us doesn't know the drill here. Also see matrix' most recent thread about what is / isn't "done". Instead, let's discuss very specific topics here, or (if it is a very tactical situation) address it in your spoiler.
quote:Originally posted by Beam
quote:After the purple turned to pink.
The whole gay community in Hoogkerk must have gone crazy. [kiss]
I don't think they would admit such a thing in a village like Hoogkerk. [rolleyes]
I got the game but will play only tomorrow. End of starting truce it is, so some decisions are to be made.
This night I dreamt I killed a battleship and only realised I wasn't allowed to after I sent. [eek]
Turn 3 started and sent to Straland. Did I smell gunpowder and burning steel? Did I hear explosions and cries of drowning sailors? Not sure, it might be I'm hallucinating. [crazyeye]
Thanks for the war happiness ;)
With that many units it won't last long imo. [evil]
quote:Originally posted by akots
With that many units it won't last long imo. [evil]
Commies don't get weary of war. [evil] [evil] (If the Civilopedia is correct)
Yes, but they tend to lose war happiness as war weariness accumulates iirc. [evil][evil][evil]
Commies give a shit about war weariness. The Roman republican capitalist bourgeois patriarch pigs however will regret they attacked the peacefull Greek revolutionists! [evil] [evil] [evil] [evil]
Pastorius
06-04-2005, 13:26
I give this thread an escalating-evil rating of:
[evil][evil][evil][evil][evil][satan]
We must harrass each other to scare off the scare of being scared off.
[evil][evil][evil][evil][evil][evil][evil][evil][evil][evil][evil][evil]
I received the sav from Matrix and I am at war with both akots and Matrix. Received a battle report from akots, not from Matrix and I'd really appreciate to receive one even if it was just a bomber trying to attack. I also think we should stick to a normal routine of thorough battlereports.
Unfort. I'll have to work late tonight so no time to finish the turn :( and tomorrow night I'll be travelling, Dell can expect the turn by Friday night.
Any movement out there in the Communist trenches by chance? Not that there is any need to hurry, just asking.
Did not have the time this weekend and this week is all filled with good-bye dinners in Paris. Which is nice but hard to find a timeslot big enough to play the turn. Planning it for friday now.
@Beam: Are you OK there? [bump]
Here again, lots of time with family and friends, little for civ. Hope to play the turn during the weekend.
Hi got the save. I think I will probably play it on tuesday or possibly tomorrow. I have an exam on tuesday morning so I would prefer to play the turn after that since at the moment the game is out of my mind but if I was to play the turn then I would begin to think of strategies again.
Took a little bit longer, sav to Dell and battlereport to akots!
Got the report, waiting for the save.
On to Matrix, King of Egypt, the game travels.
Sav to Dell, battlereport to akots. [evil]
Will play tonight. Been using a computer that doesn't have the extra files.
Played and sent. I think this could be my last turn for nearly two weeks since my exam schedule for June is: 6th, 8th, 9th, 10th, 11th and it would be difficult to play the turn during this time.
Turn to Dell. Hope you can play it before your exams and good luck passing them!
Thanks. Played the turn since I'm reached the phase where I really can;t face huge sessions of revision.
I got it, will try to play tomorrow. Many important decisions needed.
I played and am ready to send it on, but internet suddenly disappeared at home. http://www.straland.com/images/smilies/undecided.gif
Sav to Dell, battle report to akots. :)
To akots.
I have to say I won't have much time to play this PBEM often for the next two weeks, because turns take a long time and I have a [u]LOT</u> to do.
I've added this game to the Turn Tracker (http://www.straland.com/turntracker/dm4.php) a few days ago though. :)
quote:Originally posted by Matrix
To akots. ...
You mean to Beam?
Just keep it moving somehow. It took me about an hour to play my turn. A time-consuming indeed. But fun so far. Any progress on the war front out there?
To Beam indeed.
I'll update you about progress.
Sav to Dell, akots you know the drill ;)
Yes, yes, commander. I know. What's up with battle report? Seems like none has arrived. Usual arty bombardment?
I'll play tomorrow, don't have enough strength to play today. This game is surely consuming. But great fun so far.
Played and sent to Matrix. A spectacular game! Death matches are great fun, even losing!
Turn 10 sent to Matrix! Gory it is and tough. Defense obviously prevails until we get some nukes.
Turn 11 received. Will play tomorrow with fresh head. Like it helps. [:P]
Turn 12 played and sent to mighty Egyptian Emperor.
013:
Greek scouts transmitted the following report from the former Nicomedia area. :D
http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/Beam/2005815232116_lotsofarties.jpg
89.47KB
I haven't seen the save move since I last sent it. Did Akots get the save or should I resend it?
Akots app. still is waiting for his visa and can't play from there.
I'm back. It was a major pain to download the mod at dial-up 16bps, so I could not play. Being back in the US, would struggle to play tomorrow.
akots, any change we can resume soon?
Well, I took a second long look at the save and still have not played. You both do realize what you are doing? Just to make sure. This is supposed to be an exploit under the UN rules. ;) Which indeed it is from my pow. ;)
I do also realize you are depriving yoursleves from required essintial trade for 2 turns apparently causing some other minor inconveniences as well. I'm still undecided on what to do however. Any suggestions? I'd still prefer you disband that arty, Dell19. But if you insist on keeping it, that just makes life somewhat complicated.
OK, to clear the thing up. This rule regarding arty:
quote:In-Game Glitches/Bugs/Exploits
1.1 - Double-Duty Exploit
Description: No team or individual is permitted to 'allow' the capture of their bombardment or workers with the intent of executing a double-duty exploit.
Definition: Two or more teams capturing and recapturing non-combat units (Including bombardment units) with the intent to use them against a third party team simultaneously.
Purpose: To prevent two or more teams from sharing units and their abilities in the same turn for multiple turns.
Verdict: Using this exploit or any other exploit that allows Double-Duty through any means is a violation of this rule.
It had been moved twice which is double-duty.
Sorry to say but afaik we never agreed to play with the UN rules, instead the closest thing said about the rules is:
quote:Been a little as well if we need specific rules discussions. Since all of us are CDZ regulars we all are pretty familiar with the going here and in all of the one or more PBEMs I've played with you here I never saw a reason to assume one of us doesn't know the drill here. Also see matrix' most recent thread about what is / isn't "done". Instead, let's discuss very specific topics here, or (if it is a very tactical situation) address it in your spoiler.
So atm I do not see how you can claim Dell or me have to disband any of those arties.
Since I do not want to spoil the fun in this game however I propose to solve this according to an alternative method I could have saved the majority of the Arty stack, i.e. by using some of the captured arties to disconnect the Mountain E of Palmyra. 3 could have done that job with a 100% hitrate, say 5 in reality. I'm prepared to send those 5 back to Roman territory after I take them back from Dell in-game. Dell would not have to capture the arties in this alternative method in the first place.
This would also mean a "de-facto" acceptation that capture-recapture of any unit is not allowed in this game, not that we play according to the UN rules imo. We got brains etc. enough to do better than that. :)
IMHO, actually, this is one of a few UN rules which make sense. Well, good to see the understanding. :) I'm just not into this stuff. Had enough of it in GOTMs.
There is a fortified flak to be redlined first (defence 6 + barricade + mountain) on that tile (mountain E of Palmyra) and barricade which has to go first before railroad and then road. I'd say 7 arty units would be sufficient at around 70-80% probability hit. ;)
If you can please send these 7 arties to where your marine is standing and that would be the end of this discussion.
Since I want to get the game moving again we settle at 6 arties, OK?
I wasn't aware of any rules although the bombardment rule does make sense.
quote:Originally posted by Beam
Since I want to get the game moving again we settle at 6 arties, OK?
Ok, agreed.
On to Dell. :) 6 Arties are en route.
The Carnage has resumed. [evil] :) [butcher] [charge] [doomsol]
http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/Beam/2005105222342_carnage.jpg
33.09KB
Turn 15 is out there travelling to Matrix.
Turn 18 is out there going to Straland.
Beam, stop playing civ4, it needs to be patched anyhow, play the Death Match, we have score to settle here! [charge]
Beam still has the turn and have not played it.
[blush] Matrix, can you please resend?
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