View Full Version : Tis nice to know
Pastorius
19-03-2005, 21:53
In response to Whomp's post in Haruka's forum, here is your friendly toytiger with some more or less qualified tips/pointers to playing pbem games:
Read up on some aspects of pbeming here (mostly directed at 1vs1 strategies)
http://civ3duelzone.com/forum/forum.asp?FORUM_ID=34
Interaction between humans in pbem games discussed here (among other places):
http://civ3duelzone.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=1834
Propain did some interesting work on the f3 screen:
http://civ3duelzone.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=1663
War weariness behaves differently in pbems, some discussion found here:
http://civ3duelzone.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=841
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Of the above, some threads are a bit old, and some issues may be slightly outdated. But both 1vs1 forum and General Discussion forum here are potentially good starts for info on pbems
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Some stuff off the top of my mind:
General gameplay:
PBEM games must not be loaded at the end of a single player session. If you have had a SP session, then restart C3C before playing!
1) Difference between SP and pbem in gameplay:
-Player 1 does not see the AI move (including barbs)
-Player "2" (>2) sees AI moves at end of turn.
=>Need for battle reports
2) Difference between SP and pbem in foreign relations:
-You cannot trade with humans the same way as with the AI. So a trade ought to be negotiated outside of in game features.
-You cannot immediately see what a human has/has not. BUT, you can only give stuff they do not have, which is to say that if you have techs listed for trade, your opponent do not have them
Rest of stuff is more related to effective strategies afaik. There are other stuff too, but I cannot recall all right now. I hope other people lend a helping hand here. A player that does well in SP will do well in MP over time - perhaps not at once, but when you have some helpful people to point in the right direction...;)
Some good references Paal! I also recommend you read some spoiler threads. The 2x2x2x2 between Stapel, KR, Killer and akots may come close to your game.
Thanks Paalikles and Beam. I will also read up on some of the 2x2x2x2. \\
RegentMan
20-03-2005, 06:39
Looks like I've got some reading to do. Thanks!
2x2x2x2 never got going, it seems.
Okay, since now we know our civs (Sumerica, Rome, and Egypt), we can plan a bit. Basically, I think we should try an early attack with our UUs, even maybe sending some EWs very early to pillage. However, they have the Immortal, so we need to target India or Aztec one.
Pastorius
20-03-2005, 16:13
Tomoyo, can you be bothered to repost some game specs etc (at least I am lazy enough not to go into that section of CFC) - if not for anything else, then for quick reference to lurkers
Size - standard
Shape - continents, no islands
Accelerated Production - ON
SGL - OFF
3 players from team start on a same continent. Starts are balanced but not identical
City trading between teams forbidden
Team players start in locked alliance
Preserve random seed ON
Epic victory conditions ON: Conquest, Cultural, Space, Domination
Diffulty - Emperor
Ivory on both continents
CFC civs: Sumeria, Rome, Egypt
RU civs: Persia, India, Aztec
The civs may change so we have 1 MA UU. We will let akots decide.
I've suggested China, Celts and Greeks or China, Babs and Iroq.
I agree with sending some units in to disrupt things a bit. I think we should make them think we are building wonders too. Start a wonder and switch to say a granary. I thought I read here that Anarres suggest wider builds for PBEM. Why?
quote:Originally posted by Haruka
2x2x2x2 never got going, it seems. ...
It is going and we are on turn 66, but it is kinda slowly moving. The game is very peculiar however, so I will try to update the spoiler which has been neglected.
Playstyle for PBEM typically is city-tile-tile-city, so not very different from SP. Sometimes build a little denser (pelago maps), sometimes a bit more open (large maps).
Thanks Beam. We're on standard continents so really the builds are no different from SP.
I just thought of something:
The industrial civs get more bang for their buck worker-wise. Would it be wise to have the IND civ supply most of the workforce?
I like the way you think. It will take some time logistically to connect but that makes sense. Another thing is the Romans could go 0% science build rax, harbors and warriors and then mass upgrade to legions. I think you should be the warrior in this group Haruka!
One more thing:
Do we want the GLib? We would get every tech that they get, because they will share their techs.
Here's my suggestion for specialization:
Egypt - Worker provider and cash generator.
Rome - Legion army and fleet provider, also research/cash.
Sumeria - Research and maybe workers? Also provides some nuisance troops.
Can any experienced PBEMer tell me if this is smart?
Would we get their techs with the GLib if they won't accept our envoy and we don't know what they've researched? Math on the other hand with Anc. Cav....yummy.
We need to get our warriors or curraghs rolling quick to meet each other.
quote:Would we get their techs with the GLib if they won't accept our envoy and we don't know what they've researched?Of course, why do you think the GLib is so important in AW? ;)
If you start in locked alliance with your team and in locked war with your opponents, this means you have the contacts from the start.
Got it thanks you two.
So the Sums go straight towards GLib and the Egyptians IW, Romans build cash for upgrades. Sound right?
Actually, I think Egypt should get cash for upgrades (to gift to Rome), and Sumeria should go for IW first. Rome can either go for Writing first or research off.
Makes sure you gift your friends all the techs you learn! ;)
Ah, whatever. One researches IW, one Writing, and the last builds up gold on a min run on something else.
if you gift away techs to your friends, tech prices for your opponents will drop as well. So I suggest only giving them away when they are needed by the other friendly civ.
We all start with the exact same techs, so on turn 0, we should shar all our techs.
Then:
Sumeria: Writing --> Philo (MM or Lit)
Rome: IW
Egypt: Research off or Min on Math
RegentMan
21-03-2005, 01:07
What civ am I?
We don't know. I'm CFC1, Whomp's CFC3. That makes you CFC2. We have no idea which is which.
What civ do you want?
I think you should be the romans Haruka. RegentMan do you have a preference. I like either so it doesn't matter to me.
RegentMan
21-03-2005, 15:38
I don't have a preference either. Whichever you want or whatever akots gives me.
Shabbaman
21-03-2005, 16:28
Preference is important: the civ you pick might decide which civ your opponent might not play.
@ Shabbaman akots gave the russians China, Celts and Greeks. We are Japan, Persians and Iroquois.
Sounds like we need to kill China early, before they get Riders, and to avoid too many GSs and Hoplites.
The new civs change a lot. I think we should do a combined MW/'Mortal rush.
RegentMan
22-03-2005, 02:34
Remember, we are on separate continents; we will not be able to reach them until map making. Any attempt to hurt our enemies early won't be too early after all.
RegentMan
22-03-2005, 02:35
Additionally, we should try to set up a little bridgehead on their continent. If we can wedge ourselves with even one city, our lives will be much easier.
Okay, so we have to build ships. I think we should build plethora of ships. In my unsuccessful attempt to mimick Bede, that is a lot of ships.
They will really help detect and repel invading fleets.
So, build up a lot of MWs and Immortals, ship them over, and kill China.
RegentMan
22-03-2005, 07:16
How do we acquire and play the save? I know we have a team e-mail, but how would I go about downloading the save?
quote:First turn save has been sent to RUS team.
<snip>
Have fun and good luck!
Let me start with a few Sun Tzu quotes for our day of reckoning....
"What is of supreme importance in war is to attack the enemy's strategy".
"The general who wins the battle makes many calculations in his temple before the battle is fought. The general who loses makes but few calculations beforehand".
"All war is based on deception"
"Pretend inferiority and encourage his arrogance"
"A military operation involves deception. Even though you are competent, appear to be incompetent. Though effective, appear to be ineffective".
OK I'm thinking out loud because that's what I do. Comments please.
As Schip said it may be smart for the Japanese to hold onto the wheel for themselves (or till the Iroq need it). It would take the Russians longer to see their horses. Maybe the Russians won't think of this and WC will drop in price as well.
After expansion regarding builds. Hopefully we can get some barb attacks to upgrade our curraghs to vet for upgrades. I think the Japanese with cheap harbors should be the lead ships into any conflict. We need beaucoup (bookoo in Louisiana?) boats. I would presume there will be some serious naval actions. The persians should build warriors for mass upgrade.
The obvious strategy is to send boats in two directions with strong units in one and weaker in another. Is this too obvious? Is there any other way? I presume they will attempt the same with the Japanese.
Which research path should we run? I would think writing makes sense because we can either go math or philo sling. The persians on a min run at IW should give them time to upgrade warriors when the time comes. The Iroq. should grow and generate cash and until a run on HBR. Thoughts on this?
What I've read changing govt's doesn't make sense. Does this sound right?
@Haruka: Please delete the passwords from your post.
Should I delete my post too?
Nope, just passwords. Just keep them in a safe place, this place is safe but more safe without passwords.
I'm thinking Iroquois does a min on Writing, Japan goes to HBR (we need WC first though), and Persia goes to IW. Then Iro goes for Philosophy, hopefully getting it first and taking MM. Then build up pre-upgrade troops, cash, and upgrade and sic.
WC will hopefully be traded around by the Russians and we can swoop in cheap. Did you check for a save?
We got a save. Who wants to be what? If I don't get a response within six hours, I'm playing the Persians. (no preference, though)
I have no preference either. Personally I think you should be the Japanese when we go for the power close!
Okay, I'll be the Japanese. What will you be?
I think I'd like the Iroq.
So Regentman is X-man and is up.
If he doesn't pick up in the next couple hours I'll go. I'll see if he's at CFC.
I looked at the Persian save. When Regentman plays, he should note that there is another wheat in the darkness N-NW of the starting spot, so don't even think about moving south. ;)
RegentMan
23-03-2005, 03:15
I'm here. How do I go about retreving the save?
I just pm'd you at CFC. You want me to pm you here?
RegentMan
23-03-2005, 03:34
Got it. Thank you. Am pondering what to research... iron working?
Iron Working would make sense...
I recommend at min, to give time for warriors and gold.
Yeah that seems to make good sense. As Tomoyo said I can run min on writing to save for cash upgrades to immortals later.
RegentMan
23-03-2005, 03:40
50 turn min?
If they throw around WC at each other I would think you could finish that off pretty quick.
We won't be able to do much with IW until we have all the galleys in place. So 10 shield warriors like mad until we have enough galleys to move those immortals.
RegentMan
23-03-2005, 03:44
Who do I send the save to?
Send back to mahler's email.
This is how akots would like to have them labeled...and this would be you--RUSCFC001b. Did you read what Tomoyo said about the wheat?
RUSCFC001a, RUSCFC001b, etc to RUSCFC001f. 001 stands for turn number and letter to sequence of play. For example, player RUS2 will save his turn number 22 as RUSCFC022c and player CFC3 will save his turn number 101 as RUSCFC101f. If there is some confusion about turn numbers please check F8 screen.
Anyone else want to chime in feel free.
RegentMan
23-03-2005, 03:55
quote:Originally posted by Whomp
Send back to mahler's email.
[blush2] Indeed. I added him to our address book. Turn sent on. Should we each create a thread for our civs? We could attach screenies and other info there as well.
Yes. Should we do it in the secret squirrel hiding place?
I think I should research WC. WC is a required tech for HBR, and I start with the Wheel. Then, when we need to, I'll gift both to Whomp.
And what's the secret squirrel hiding place?
Where everyone promised to say a. nada and b. nada.
Okay... So you can't talk there? [:p]
I figured it was harder for anyone to view what's happening in that thread without being a member say versus this one. Then again what do I know!
Ok I am dork. RegentMan already started his Persian thread.
RegentMan
23-03-2005, 04:23
What did I miss?... [crazyeye] It's under construction so you guys have time to post yours.
I was thinking we would post to the spoiler page Tomo set up. I temporarily lost my mind it seems. Interesting start. Is the worker on wheat?
RegentMan
23-03-2005, 04:41
Yes, he will irrigate then road the wheat.
Darkness
23-03-2005, 08:36
quote:Originally posted by Whomp
Yeah that seems to make good sense. As Tomoyo said I can run min on writing to save for cash upgrades to immortals later.
Whomp, what's your start like. It is often very well possible to get writing faster than 50 turns if you have a decent to good start. Which could be very important to get to Philosophy first!
Not sure yet Darkness. I roll 3rd. You're right though with agr. and com. it's a better possibility.
This is really pissing me off! Regentman's save loaded perfectly, but the game crashes when I try to load my save!!!!
AHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Try again with clean reboot. If it still crashes ask RUS to resend. Or let me try to load it. I'll post shortly.
Nope, the save is OK, there is something wrong with your C3C. Please try again and it should work.
You ok T? Want me to try when I get home from work?
AHHH!!!! I tried reinstalling C3C... (I patched it, too) and it still crashed. :(
Maybe I need a replacement.
Let me see if I have the same problem when I get home.
I'm having the same problem with Haruka-Killer, and MPSG1, but no problem with Pound. This is wierd.
'Tis very nice to know that the saves work now!!! It was a problem with the vanilla part of my C3C.
digger760
25-03-2005, 09:26
I did'nt relise you guys were playing a 3v3 game..somehow i had it in my head it was a 1v1 team game. So what are you gonna do if somebody drops out?
RegentMan
25-03-2005, 15:27
Probably ask someone to replace them.
The way I see it we are one and the same. If someone else would like to join in and play Iroq. they are more than welcome.
May I get permission to press enter for someone if they don't play for a while?
I think to keep things moving if a player doesn't pick up the email by 11 EST the game should be open to the other teammates. Sound ok?
RegentMan
26-03-2005, 07:39
What if they send it to us at 10:58 EST and I'm not on? ;)
But I agree. Go ahead and press enter for someone if they don't play the save in a timely fashion.
Moving the units might be a good idea as well :p
I went and played Regentman's turn for him. The email was there yesterday afternoon.
I offered BW and Masonry in return of the two trades.
If the save is in and no one has said I got it before say 11 EST then I would say play it. With the big time difference we would like to keep this baby moving.
RegentMan
26-03-2005, 22:35
Well, I would have played if the Communists ( ;) ) would let us know when they've sent it.
Just to let you know, mahler of the Russians has registered at my forum for some reason and has posted:
a) He plays "Tatar-Mongol" style.
b) He normally plays on Regent level.
Is that some intel or counter-intel on mahler?
Just letting you know. I don't know what it means.
RegentMan
17-04-2005, 05:04
Good, neither do I! [lol]
OK sometimes I can't write....Is he a regent level player or making us think he's a regent level player?
We don't know. We do know that there is about aa 50% chance that he plays "tatar-mongol" style as opposed to... what?
Maybe as opposed to a peaceful builder. [lol]
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