View Full Version : Aggie vs Stapel *spoiler*
Stapel, this is NOT for your eyes [tongue]
I'm in love with my starting position [dance]
http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/aggie/200342421335_AvSstartspoiler.jpg
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(if you read my map request thread, you know how I payed ERIKK to get this deal [tongue])
WildFire
24-04-2003, 21:13
**Drool** that will be a good capital ;)
Where are you on the map? North, south, middle?
Ehm... good question. Don't know, I switched to 1.21 to play Jack Merchant and this is on 1.14...
WildFire
24-04-2003, 21:18
You can use 1.21?
Yes I can, also for our PBEM :)
WildFire
24-04-2003, 21:22
Than why dont we use 1.21?!?! It would make it sooooo much easier for me! I have 1.21 against Killer and CG so this would make it so I dont have to switch patches that much! So I will play it with the 1.21 patch and send it on.
Let's do it. And oh, I also have ICQ! I tried to contact you yesterday, but no response. You're not on-line now, are you?
WildFire
24-04-2003, 21:25
I will be soon. I am on the downstairs computer which is my parents and I shouldnt be on ;)
Your gettin me in trouble as I type.
Why move the settler? Settling on a lux is very lucrative, you get the gold bonus and immediately have those happy faces (saves worker actions)!
WildFire
24-04-2003, 21:37
Oh well, too late ERIKK ;)
I am on ICQ now Aggie.
quote:Originally posted by ERIKK
Why move the settler? Settling on a lux is very lucrative, you get the gold bonus and immediately have those happy faces (saves worker actions)!
That's a good one! I thought about the 10 shield bonus I would get from chopping the wood.
Turn 23:
Oh come on! The Babs enter my land with two spears! Surely they won't attack...
http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/aggie/200342820457_AgSt23Babs.jpg
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Aaaargh they DO attack [cry]
http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/aggie/2003428201117_AgSt23war.JPG
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They pilaged my lux connection and captured my worker. A settler could escape. I'm not able to rush a spear.
whoops, they must envy those 5(!) bonus tiles... :(
Turn 28:
I'm still alive, but barely. Look at my wounded spear:
http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/aggie/2003428211420_AgSt28luck.jpg
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I managed to settle my2nd city.
Turn 34:
It was close, very close. In my last two turns I managed to kill a bowman and a spear with the same archer. After that, Hammurabi wanted to talk:
http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/aggie/200342822146_AgSt34peace.jpg
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I consider this a victory. I lost two workers, but Babylon will be quiet for a couple of turns... [band]
ERIKK, you obviously managed to choose the most agressive AI's possible!
Turn 39:
I was almost gone, but look now [hammer]:
http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/aggie/2003428225545_AgSt39demographics.jpg
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[lol] And I thought I was jinxed!
Maybe they attacked because you have horses, iron, coal and some uranium in your territory! [:o]
WildFire
29-04-2003, 16:22
and on that forest a rubber ;)
Turn 48:
To answer Wildfire's question: I'm in the SE of the world.
Look at these resources [cool]:
http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/aggie/200343011136_AgSt48resources.jpg
81.03*KB
And I'm nr one in almost every important demographic category. Plus technologically advanced.
Aggie,
Why is Rheims not next to the fresh water 1 tile S or SE?
P.S. Install a graphics mod! Those pics are too much to cope with! ;)
I don't know....maybe the fact that I feared too much cultural overlap with Babylon.
Anarres, you have a great graphics mod, with the lux/resource addition. Were did you get it?
I will post a set of links later tonight for some good graphics mods...
There are several resource ones, but one of my favourite mods is the one to add happy/sad faces to the citizen pics (like in the F1 screen).
Anarres, could you e-mail me the links?
And oh, the water south of Reims is ocean...
I am at work, and so just going from the C&C forum (and my memory)...
This is a very good index page: GraphicsMod Library II: Terrain/Resources (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=47260)
I use snoopys terrain graphics (see post 3), there are many more to choose from though.
Another great index: GraphicsMod Library III: Interface/Misc (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=46100)
I use "Population Heads with Larger Mood Badges" (post 7), but looking at it there are many similar themes, for me it's all about visibility.
I also use a resource mod that gives smiles next to lux's and letters on resources:
GRAPHICS: Easy to spot Resources by Shankyburns (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=15022).
Image of resources (will not show as pic directly) (http://forums.civfanatics.com/attachment.php?s=&postid=169469)
However, Quick-look resources by ejday (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=33715) look even better than the ones I use.
Image of resources (will not show as pic directly) (http://forums.civfanatics.com/attachment.php?s=&postid=528397)
Thanks [thumbsup]
http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/aggie/200352195958_snoopy.jpg
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Turn 65:
Is this emperor? I started researching myself, because the AI is too slow. I got Philosophy before anyone else and I traded it for a total of 500 gold. [hammer]. I make so much money out of researching, that I may be well of to beeline to Republic before researching MM and Lit. :)
Babylon only has 3 cities, so they are on the list [}:)]
Turn 75:
I trade the Vikings Philosophy and 100 gold for Map Making. I then trade the world map around and get a little money (120 gold).
Here's my continent:
http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/aggie/20035522500_AvS75map.jpg
5.43*KB
Wow - and all that babs land just waiting to be taken. The power of the cow.
You turned that initial war around in a very impressive way Aggie!!!!! And look what it did to the Babs, they dug their own grave for sure!
Turn 81:
The babs decided to build the Oracle instead of settlers or workers [smokin]. They hardly developed their land and didn't connect the iron. I'm already stronger, but I need a few more horsies and swords for the shock and awe. They have 5 cities now. I've got a bit more [tongue]
Turn 84: The Vikings approach me with a total of 8 military untis. This is an attacking force. Are they after me?
Turn 88:
The Vikings won't leave and I built up my military with swords, so I ask them to get out. This is the response:
http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/aggie/200361104747_AvSvikingwar.jpg
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I plan to kill a couple of units and then make peace. My main target is still Babylon[evil]
Turn 89: I send out a couple of suicide galleys to find Stapel's homeland.
Turn 90: Up to now the Vikings only send warriors to me. I kill all three of them :D One of the galley sinks.
Turn 91: No vikings coming yet. I'll make peace asap, because I want to concentrate on the Babylonians.
IT: The babs and vikings sign a MA :). That makes life simple. They are both weak. My two remaining suicide galleys still didn't sink...
Turn 92:
The time for final revenge has come. Babylon must go. NOW.
http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/aggie/20036713057_AvS92ur.jpg
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Oh, and I also managed to cross the ocean and see the Chinese borders. One of my galleys survived :)
Turn 93:
I meet the Spanish, not the Chinese.
Lot's of trading gives me a complete world map, Literature, embassies with Carthage and Spain.
Stapel is building TGL. He is far backard in tech, so he's betting all his money on getting it. He's the only one to research it.
Babylon and the Vikings don't send any units towards me. As expected :)
The histograph:
http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/aggie/200367135015_AvS83historgraph.jpg
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It's in the spoiler, because Stapel won't know MY civs and world for a while...
In the IT, Stapel accepted the following offer: I get two middle age techs from him for a contact with a civ at this moment. Nice deal I would say :)
Next turn, I made the stupid mistake to forget to trade contacts before Stapel can [rolleyes]
Turn 97:
I discover Republic, whip about 4 swords and then go into anarchy:
http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/aggie/200368131816_AvSanarchy.jpg
11.35*KB
Stapel probably will get The Great Library. Both the Vikngs and Babylonians want to talk. I will destroy the Babs and I will make peace with the Vikings. But first I want to hurt the Vikings. Maybe I can get construction cheap.
Stapel gets republic for another middle age tech and 100 gold. So I get three middle age techs from Stapel. He will get the Great Libary, but has to share a lot of it with me. And naturally I will try to research Education ASAP :)
Turn 109:
I got currency and entered the Middle Age. The Vikings turn out to be my best trade partner. Go figure... Germany gets Engineering as the free tech.
Massive barb uprsisings kill my settler :(
I'm now researching monotheism at max. Engineering will be mine via a deal with Stapel.
Turn 150:
I just killed Babylon:
http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/aggie/200376191653_AvSbabsgone.jpg
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Stapel is ahead of me, because he already had his golden age. I'm waiting for musketeers. The turn before this one I discovered Education and made Stapel's TGL obsolote. I have a lot of money and Invention is in 5.
http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/aggie/200376191847_AvShistograph.jpg
67KB
I assume you were the second civ (known by stapel, that is) that learned education?
If so, you made some nice deals selling edu around?
Grille, sure I did. But there's not much of the AI left. I was the first to know the tech and wanted to make sure that Stapel knew it ASAP to avoid him from getting other techs.
I quite enjoy reading this stuff - alas, my status "lurker" has gone, so I must ask silly questions... [lol]
Not much of ai left - what'll be your plans now?
Use your GA (if you get access to salpeter -> war against Scandinavia?) to build tons of horses/knights that will be used as cavs later to knock on Stapel's door or even spend some shields & time on Bach's or Leo's (whatever)?
Have you already spawned a decent amount of elites against the Babs?
Your score ratio happy citizens/territory sounds like there's probably lack of lux resources (respectively markets) or like a population growth potential in your cities. Could you post an actual shot of the F1 or F11 screen, please (if you don't feel *bombarded* enough w/ all these questions and your overall *hard-working* pbem activity) ?
Well, the Scandinavians and Japanese are quite big, but I plan to kill them in my Golden Age. To get to that I have to discover Gunpowder and build the Musketeer.
After that: try to keep up and I guess it will be a space race game from then on. We still can't cross the ocean (apart from my suicide galley that reached to other continent). So not much trading possible. So I concentrate on income and not hapiness.
The depressing F11-screen. Be reminded that Stapel already had his GA and in that time conquered half his continent...
http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/aggie/200377213619_AgStdemo.jpg
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[blush2] Hmm, I should have read the open thread with more attention (-> so no "knocking on Stapel's door").
Anyway, some progress?
I hope you have detected some accessable salpeter.
What's with a GA of your enemies?
Personally, I think it's no fun to fight samurais as they like to eat horse meat for breakfast :(.
If that would even trigger their GA, your advantage there might be taken away.
Turn 165:
I declare war on the Vikings and get MA's with Japan and Spain.
Turn 166:
http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/aggie/20037271543_StapelGoldenage.jpg
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Turn 215:
I hate to admit it, but this one is going terribly wrong. Stapel managed to steal Steam Power and now leads the race towards ToE. He got medicine before me, meaning that he has a faster tech pace :(.
I also had to abandon my conquest of Japan. I couldn't at the same time build unversities and fight a war vs those dreadful Samurai. My FP is terribly placed (Rheims, close to Paris), I haven't had a leader yet to replace my palace. So I just have one, slightly bigger, core.
http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/Aggie/200382810511_AgSt215map.jpg
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[aargh] Aggie !!!!! Come on man ! you cant' let Stapel win !
You got a prebuild for ToE ? Try stealing your way back to parity or something...
Sorry [cry] I'm certain that Stapel has pre-builds for ToE and Hoover :( He had it for a lot of other wonders, he focusses on wonders very much.
Do I have an explanation? No, not really. Maybe the fact that this started somewhere in april and that I'm not able to really get into it. Just like the one vs Wildfire. Bad excuses for bad play.
Turn 241:
Stapel got ToE before me and got Atomic Theory and Electronics for free. However...he didn't have a decent pre-build for Hoover. So all of a sudden I got a chance to build it, one turn before Stapel could finish it himself [hammer].
He was totally outplaying me, but now I lead the Mfg Goods category. He also continued researching at max, but I could keep up by stealing. 600 gpt allows you to steal every 2 turns and then you can afford a failure once in a while. But I was lucky and a lot of steals succeeded (4 of 6).
Stapel also had the bug in which his Hoover switched to something else, losing the shields. That means that I will get Universal Suffrage as well.
So I'm still alive and plan to attack the Japanese again. Stapel now owns his island by the way.
Lt. Killer M
13-09-2003, 13:00
[mwaha]
this game has now had two big turnarounds - I will definately need to watch this!
I wouldn't call it a turnaround. I see it as a big break and a glimmer of hope.
Turn 280:
Stapel entered the modern age and told me that he will finish the UN in six turns. This info forced me to:
- steal motorized transport and enter the Modern Age as well
- give Spain a city (New Orleans). This civ was almost eradicated from the planet by Stapel and me and hate us both. Before I gave away that city they only had a settler sailing around. Stapel won't be able to get a majority vote now, with only us two, Japan and Spain left [evil]
Other news: Japan invaded me with 30 cavalry in turn 275. That wasn't a clever move. With my 60 artillery and 30 cavs I was not only able to kill the entire force in one blow, but I also conquered about 70% of Japan by now. Japan will be dead in 10 turns.
I still didn't get a leader in the entire game and I need one badly. I must develop a second core fast, or otherwise Stapel will beat me in the Space Race.
We are still facing the lux-trade bug. We traded lux for lux a while ago and can't access the 'active deal' screen anymore. The most serious result of this is that we CAN'T declare war :(. But that problem also lead to an opportunity: giving the Spanish a city, have a ROP and surround their city with my troops. Stapel can't get there anymore.
Pics will follow tonight.
NOw you got the japanese in your pocket just leave them with a few cities for leader farming purposes. Usually the AI will start pumping longbowmen after they lose all resources for decent offenders. They're easy pickings. And even if they build riflemen instead, it's easy to bombard them to 1 hp and pick em of with elite cav.
That's a good one. I already pillaged all their resources and luxuries with my explorers. So no real strong units to be expected anymore. As a sign of how bad things are going for Japan: they left some of my undefended explores alone: no force whatsoever except military within the cities!
Can we get a map update? I presume both of you will try for a space race win now?
I will update this thread with a map, the demographics and all other things interesting. We probably go for a space race and Stapel is the favorite. He has both cores developed, while I have only one. Hoover was a nice break for me, but now I'm trailing again. Maybe that I can pull a stunt with cunningness, but I doubt it :( We are equal in tech, but he can research everything in 4-6 turns. I decided to go for computers and build research labs/SETI ASAP. I doubt that I will get even that before him.
Example of the terrible situation I'm in: I have mobilised (military only), but still Stapel outproduces me!
Turn 282:
Important news: we are able to enter the active deal screen again and also declare war!! This is interesting, because now all of a sudden nucleair weapons come into play. Stapel just landed 5 cavalry on my border to attack the Spanish. I gave Isabella a city and hope that she will vote against Stapel in the UN. Stapel wants to get rid of her:
http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/Aggie/20031016164716_ASspanishcity.jpg
36.96*KB
This is the current world map:
http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/Aggie/20031016165255_AS282map.jpg
7.83*KB
My pathetic demographics:
http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/Aggie/20031016164821_AS282demo.jpg
19.79*KB
Stapel hasn't got a decent military at the moment, because he didn't need it with that bug. Now I could attack him without a problem, but that doesn't seem fair. So I offered:
- peace until turn 300
- he is getting rid of his cavalry in my territory
EDIT: Stapel reminds me that we have agreed to have peace during this PBEM. Stupid rule [cry]
Lt. Killer M
16-10-2003, 18:35
aggie, any idea why the bug rightened itself?
I really don't know. I just tried to attack and it worked.
I thought you could always attack a unit to start a war - just that doing it via diplomacy would fuck up with this bug? [???]
@Anarres: I will test that tonight. I assume that the bug is gone though.
EDIT: the bug is still there. I can declare war by attacking Stapel. However, declaring war via the diplo screen is impossible.
ah well, attacking a unit has the element of surprise! :)
It is better than nothing, now we know how to end our lux-lux deal :). But as I said before, war is not an issue, we banned it in April (I must have been drunk) :(
Turn 283:
The crippled Japanese declare war on Stapel. What's so funny about that? Well, Stapel thought they would vote for him in the UN [lol].
Turn 286:
Stapel held a UN vote. The AI abstained and in the next vote they won't be alive anymore [evil].
I still have to go four turns to get computers. Obviously my research is slower than Stapel's. But that's why I went for computers. SETI should be mine and I obviously will rush-build research labs.
I still haven't gotten any leaders in this game. When I lose this one, it's because I got no leaders while I was counting on it.
quote:When I lose this one, it's because I got no leaders while I was counting on it.
Oh yeah...blame it on the RNG o'course ;)
I believe it's all those stupid agreements that were made for no understandable reason : they drastically reduce your ability to "come back from behind", limiting your options and allowing your opponnent to get a "free ride" most of the time.
Because of them Stapel was able to play his "style" of game and you were not able to force him to play another type of game which he feels less confident with.
Hey, I said 'no leaders while I was counting on it'. I was blaming myself for playing a game without a backup plan!
Indeed the no-war clause is stupid in hindsight. But I would have had an other story when in front myself.
Another major factor was that I had to fight Vikings and Japs in their GA with strong UU's. I even had to end a war vs Japan [sad]. Stapel managed to beat the AI before they could show their strength.
I did not want to sound too harsh...when I reread the post I wanted to edit it but you were faster :(
May I remind you those Barbs at the start hampered your expansion, you had bad luck with your neighbors wars...
Sky, at least you are clear in your comments :D
Indeed the Babs almost killed me there. But at the end of the Ancient Age I was in front. So no excuses there :(
Turn 288:
After taking over the last Japanese town the game crashed. After a bit of experimenting I found that the only way to avoid this is to:
- attack Stapel
- destroy the Japanese
- make peace with Stapel
Stapel agrees with this and we also agreed to renew our lux for lux deal. This may end up in the same error, but at least we know now how to solve it :)
Turn 300:
This one is almost done. Spain and Japan are gone and we are the only two civs left. Stapel just managed to discover (or steal) Computers, I am one turn from Nucleair Power. I choose the less obvious road (next tech will be The Laser) in hope that Stapel researches other techs and therefore leaves something to steal.
I sold all my military and barracks and now only bother to build units to disband it in more corrupt cities.
Stealing is too cheap. For 2500 gold I can carefully steal a tech. I make 1200 gpt at min science !!
Stapel is still nr one in all vital demographic categories, but I think that it is more vital that he is first up in the turns.
http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/Aggie/200311185930_AvS300mapandtroops.jpg
26.93*KB
Stapel probably already discovered Space Flight. It is cheaper to research than Ecology atm.
http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/Aggie/200311185952_AvS300techtree.jpg
54.05*KB
Turn 313:
I just carefully stole Ecology from Stapel. I am techologically advanced [dance]. Now only Satellites and Synthetic Fibers are needed. Stapel also still has to discover these two techs. I know this, because when I was tech stealing I saw that he lacked Satellites. And after this I saw that Synthetic Fibers would take me slightly more turns at 50% science than Satellites. The price of Synthetic Fibers would have dropped dramatically if Stapel knew it. :D I see possibilities to win, but Stapel is first up and has a slightly bigger chance.
http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/Aggie/2003111153935_AvS313spacerace.jpg
43.92*KB
EDIT: I forgot to mention a small but important detail: I have The Laser over Stapel [hammer]
Turn 314:
Stapel now also has The Laser. I sold a lot of temples and cathedrals and put most cities to wealth. Only a few vital cities keep on building, as prebuild for space ship parts. 5 to 8 turns to go but still this has to wait until December 5th [eek]
To be continued...
Turn 320:
I was lucky. Stapel discovered Synt Fib while I was researching Satellites. The steal succeeded so:
http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/Aggie/200311202159_AvS319spacerace.jpg
25.94*KB
Congrats.
Another (but the final) 'turning point' of the game...[lol]
Hehe, I firstly thought 'to be continued' referred to next month...;)
Have fun over there!
Well, it was meant to be for next month, but we managed to finish after all :D.
In turn 318 Stapel discovered Synthetic Fibers. I could notice it from the Space Race screen. He was building three parts more. My steal then succeeded. I switched three prebuilds to space ship parts and anticipated a win next turn when Satellites would come in. However, I miscounted one part. So I only got it next turn.
I knew however that Stapel would have needed two more turns for Satelletis himself. And a steal would only give him Space Ship launch in 321 at the earliest.
Stapel already admitted that he shouldn't have left the opportunity open to finish with two techs that could be researched together. He played a great game, deserved to win, but this one thing allowed me to still get that win.
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