krys's Civ3 ruleset - NOT COMPLETE (won't ever be)

[Socrates]

Here is the ruleset that I will now use as a reference for all my Civ3 games to come. It currently applies to the epic game of the C3C 1.22 version.

Any rule is subject to discussion when you're setting up a PBEM with me. Most rules will apply to every mod/scenario, but some will need to be updated for any specific mod/scenario.

1. "Interface exploits" are valid for any game. They deal with the game's not-so-good interface.

2. "Rules applying to any kind of game" are valid for any game. They deal with things allowed by the not-so-good system and that you can do on your own.

3. "Rules applying to every game with AIs" are valid for any game featuring at least one AI civ. They deal with things related to the not-so-good AI.

4. "Rules applying to PBEMs only" are valid for any game featuring at least one human rival. They deal with things related to the not-so-good PBEM system.

Credits go to the RBCiv community and Aggie, who are at the basis of the large majority of the rules here.



1. Interface exploits

- "Free healing" :
Never save and reload the game in order to get free healing for some units where you shouldn't have any.

- "Grand theft" :
Never steal a 2nd tech after stealing one, using the steal tech screen.

- "Big picture" :
Never use the "scroll ahead" feature upon discovering a new tech.

- "Free wealth" :
Never use the "scroll ahead" feature to get free wealth in your cities.

- "Shared tile" :
Never use the "scroll ahead" feature to share any tile between your cities on any given turn.

- "Instant military" :
Never use the "scroll ahead" feature to react to the AI move, except for rearranging tiles.


2. Rules applying to any kind of game

- "Negative cash research" :
Always adjust the slider so that your treasury doesn't go below zero on the following turn.

- "Palace jump" :
Never abandon your capital city, either through the "abandon city" feature, either by building a settler there.

- "Throwaway cities" :
Never abandon a city on the turn it was captured, never abandon a city with active resisters remaining, never move settlers into or through the territory of a city you intend to abandon.

- "Cultural push" :
Never settle within 2 tiles from any AI city.

- "Dogpiling" :
Never add workers to a city if it leads to starvation for the city.

- "Whipping loophole" :
Never add workers to a city in order to use the whip there if it leads to excessing total unhappiness there.

- "Worker draft" :
Never add workers to a city in order to create a draft camp if it leads to excessing total unhappiness there.

- "Resource disconnection" :
Never pillage a tile nor bombard a tile free of enemy units in your territory.

- "Amphibious blockades" :
Never put units on flat coastal tiles just in order to prevent other civs to land there.

- "Chaining ships" :
Never transfer units from ship to ship while at sea.

- "Galley hopping" :
Never put a stack of partially loaded ships on a sea-tile where some may sink in order to have empty ones sunk and loaded ones safe.


3. Rules applying to every game with AIs

- "Phony peace treaty" :
Never break a peace treaty with an AI within 20 turns if it included cities and/or techs for you.

- "RoP rape" :
Never use a RoP with an AI in order to move your units into attack position.

- "Spousal abuse" :
Never effectively use a RoP with an AI that has an MPP with a civ you're at war with or about to attack.

- "City giveaway" :
Never gift an AI with cities for free, and never gift an AI with cities with garrison of any kind, only unguarded cities when sueing for peace.

- "Resource piracy" :
Never deny an AI access to any tile inside its borders while at peace.

- "Seed corn" :
Never buy workers from an AI still in despotism.

- "Sabotaging trade" :
Never break your own trade routes with an AI.

- "Baiting the AI" :
Never use workers to divert an AI on front lines.

- "Puppet strings" :
Never use diversionary units for the sole purpose of moving them in and out of an attack range of an AI city.


4. Rules applying to PBEMs only

- "Gentleman behaviour" :
Never break a deal with a human rival.

- "Battle logs" :
Always report detailed battle logs to a human rival.

- "Wonders' completion" :
Always report wonders' completion to human rivals.

- "Scientific Great Leaders" :
Disable SGLs.

- "Statue of Zeus" :
Either make ivory evenly accessible to everyone, either don't make ivory a requirement for the SoZ.

- "Military alliances against humans" :
Never sign up an MA with an AI against a human rival.

- "Mutual protection pact" :
Never sign an MPP with an AI.

- "Locked war" (1v1 PBEM) :
Set up 1v1 PBEMs with both human civs in locked war.

- "No volcanoes" :
Set up PBEMs with no volcanoes on hand-made maps.

- "No barbs" :
Set up PBEMs with no barbs at all.

[Socrates]

Since I may update this long list from time to time in the first post, here is the initial list (March 4, 2005). My next posts will include the changes I may make in the future.

Everyone is welcome to comment on this, to propose some changes, to ask questions about what/why/how... I may add some explanations in the first post if I find the energy to do so.



1. Interface exploits

- "Free healing" :
Never save and reload the game in order to get free healing for some units where you shouldn't have any.

- "Grand theft" :
Never steal a 2nd tech after stealing one, using the steal tech screen.

- "Big picture" :
Never use the "scroll ahead" feature upon discovering a new tech.

- "Free wealth" :
Never use the "scroll ahead" feature to get free wealth in your cities.

- "Shared tile" :
Never use the "scroll ahead" feature to share any tile between your cities on any given turn.

- "Instant military" :
Never use the "scroll ahead" feature to react to the AI move, except for rearranging tiles.


2. Rules applying to any kind of game

- "Negative cash research" :
Always adjust the slider so that your treasury doesn't go below zero on the following turn.

- "Palace jump" :
Never abandon your capital city, either through the "abandon city" feature, either by building a settler there.

- "Throwaway cities" :
Never abandon a city on the turn it was captured, never abandon a city with active resisters remaining, never move settlers into or through the territory of a city you intend to abandon.

- "Cultural push" :
Never settle within 2 tiles from any AI city.

- "Dogpiling" :
Never add workers to a city if it leads to starvation for the city.

- "Whipping loophole" :
Never add workers to a city in order to use the whip there if it leads to excessing total unhappiness there.

- "Worker draft" :
Never add workers to a city in order to create a draft camp if it leads to excessing total unhappiness there.

- "Resource disconnection" :
Never pillage a tile nor bombard a tile free of enemy units in your territory.

- "Amphibious blockades" :
Never put units on flat coastal tiles just in order to prevent other civs to land there.

- "Chaining ships" :
Never transfer units from ship to ship while at sea.

- "Galley hopping" :
Never put a stack of partially loaded ships on a sea-tile where some may sink in order to have empty ones sunk and loaded ones safe.


3. Rules applying to every game with AIs

- "Phony peace treaty" :
Never break a peace treaty with an AI within 20 turns if it included cities and/or techs for you.

- "RoP rape" :
Never use a RoP with an AI in order to move your units into attack position.

- "Spousal abuse" :
Never effectively use a RoP with an AI that has an MPP with a civ you're at war with or about to attack.

- "City giveaway" :
Never gift an AI with cities for free, and never gift an AI with cities with garrison of any kind, only unguarded cities when sueing for peace.

- "Resource piracy" :
Never deny an AI access to any tile inside its borders while at peace.

- "Seed corn" :
Never buy workers from an AI still in despotism.

- "Sabotaging trade" :
Never break your own trade routes with an AI.

- "Baiting the AI" :
Never use workers to divert an AI on front lines.

- "Puppet strings" :
Never use diversionary units for the sole purpose of moving them in and out of an attack range of an AI city.


4. Rules applying to PBEMs only

- "Gentleman behaviour" :
Never break a deal with a human rival.

- "Battle logs" :
Always report detailed battle logs to a human rival.

- "Wonders' completion" :
Always report wonders' completion to human rivals.

- "Scientific Great Leaders" :
Disable SGLs.

- "Statue of Zeus" :
Either make ivory evenly accessible to everyone, either don't make ivory a requirement for the SoZ.

- "Military alliances against humans" :
Never sign up an MA with an AI against a human rival.

- "Mutual protection pact" :
Never sign an MPP with an AI.

- "Locked war" (1v1 PBEM) :
Set up 1v1 PBEMs with both human civs in locked war.

[Pastorius]

quote:
- "Shared tile" :
Never use the "scroll ahead" feature to share any tile between your cities on any given turn.

- "Instant military" :
Never use the "scroll ahead" feature to react to the AI move, except for rearranging tiles.

*Bolding by me.

Those two seem to act against eachother. Since rearranging could be interpreted as sharing, and vice versa....

quote:
- "Throwaway cities" :
Never abandon a city on the turn it was captured, never abandon a city with active resisters remaining, never move settlers into or through the territory of a city you intend to abandon.
I suppose this is one of those dastardly moves that realmsbeyond talk about. I dont mind doing it - though I dont do it consistently throughout a game. I dont consider it too much of an exploit in a human vs human game - even with AI present.

quote:
- "Baiting the AI" :
Never use workers to divert an AI on front lines.

Even if it means your utter destruction? I like to think of luring the AI as providing directions for the way to go. In fact, even humans may be so stupid as to go hunting for workers. Depends on the player of course....

[Socrates]

Thanks Paali. Just before I start answering, just know that the majority of the rules here were taken (sometimes, not even changed) from the RBCiv community. Of course there are a lot of them that I didn't check (yet), nor try myself (since the way I play already conformed to many of their rules). I'll check every rule to see if they still apply, if they're indeed needed, etc... At the moment, I prefer to start on a basis of many rules (which I don't personally find hard to follow), and remove some if I find it's good to do so.

Re: "Shared tile" & "Instant military". The former forbids you to rearrange your tiles so as to have at least 2 cities using at least one same tile on a given turn, which can be done in the IT with the "scroll ahead" feature. The latter forbids you to use it so as to change production in cities (get some defense immediately eg.), change your scientific research, and so on ; the only allowed thing is rearranging tiles in your cities, because governors are pathetic managers in Civ3. In all your integrity, you should do so without bypassing the former rule. So, both rules apply at the same time, like if you had to be in a blue part and also a yellow part : that'd mean you'd have to be in a green part. If you find this hard to achieve in your game, just tell me.

Re: "Throwaway cities". This rule indeed comes from RBCiv, but it's an exploit, not a dastardly move. Dastardly moves are perfectly valid in any standard RBCiv game. This rules is to prevent the player from abusing the way the game computes borders ; borders don't adjust themselves when you bypass this rule, which I find unfair. Another rule I have to check myself.

Re: "Baiting the AI". This rule is to prevent the player from diverting the AI from its real goal. One could keep dozens of workers for the sole purpose of delaying his fate, whereas he should be killed by the AI if the AI wasn't so stupid. So : yes, and above all if it means your utter destruction !! ;) On the offense, sending workers in the blue so as to face less military resistance is a cheap way of warmongering IMHO. And LOL, don't underestimate people's intellect, can you back your words with facts ? ;) I'm interested.

Don't hesitate to continue this discussion...

[Pastorius]

Well - I didnt imagine that the worker baiting process is meant to be used with loads of workers.
I thought it would work the same way as the way you can escort settler escorts of the AI by blocking them and leading them around your territory instead of straight through.

I guess what I really needed was some explanation on these - since they mightnt be straightforward for me with the "small" language barrier of English as second langue.

@throwaway cities: are you sure the border stuff does not autocorrect itself? You abandon a city you fear will flip anyway, and you move your settler to the now unoccupied area, and you resettle to gain the territory. They did it @ CFC in the demogame.

@shared tiles etc: I guess I misunderstood, having never used that method myself - mostly because I am too impatient in my games (sp)

[Darkness]

Hey Krys,

Regarding our game:
Most of your rules are fine with me. The ones that Í'd like to put up for debate are listed below.

quote:Originally posted by kryszcztov

Here is the ruleset that I will now use as a reference for all my Civ3 games to come. It currently applies to the epic game of the C3C 1.22 version.

- "Cultural push" :
Never settle within 2 tiles from any AI city.

- "Military alliances against humans" :
Never sign up an MA with an AI against a human rival.



Cultural push is definately allowable for me! AI has foreknowledge of the map, so it will often settle in annoying/absurd places. Cultural push is the only way to counter this

One MA against a human is not a problem IMHO, just one needs to be the max though. MA''s are part of the game, so also of a PBEM game.

[Socrates]

@ Paali : I'm pretty sure some rules aren't valid or totally valid in C3C 1.22. That's why I'll check them, so as to get rid of some from time to time. Until then, or until proven wrong, I'll keep them.

Re: "Cultural push" : I see what you mean. RBCiv says "This is not the same as settling close to the enemy or getting into a cultural war to control key resources or tiles along the border." The AI has knowledge of the map, nothing we can do about it, I can live with it though. I think you're not willing to do cultural push to its full extent though, just for stealing a resource from an AI without declaring war. Methinks we shouldn't settle in any AI city's 21, otherwise you settle 2 tiles from an AI city, then immediately rush a cultural improvement, and badam ! a few turns later the resource is yours. A bit cheap IMHO, I'd find it fairer to declare war on the annoying AI. That's my PoV.

Re: "Military alliances against humans" : Then you agree with no MPP ? Let's say you declare war on me, but nothing really happens. I get annoyed and decide to sign up an AI against you. The AI will do the job, whereas I'll stay at home, drinking beer and watching TV. ;) Unless you have a real advantage over that AI, you'll suffer a little, while I won't, without paying anything (or so little). Methinks the AI is too dumb to understand us, that's why I now want to do no MA with AIs against humans. Some people here found some rules, but I find them too complicated. That's my PoV.

@ Darkness : We can debate about rules here, but we can also debate about them for the purpose of our game. I said no rule is set in stone for any game (let's say they're set in marble ;) ). I know many rules ignore some features of the game, but what can I do ? Some parts of the game aren't working properly.

[Darkness]

quote:Originally posted by kryszcztov

Methinks we shouldn't settle in any AI city's 21


That is an acceptable compromise for me. :)

quote:Originally posted by kryszcztov

"Military alliances against humans" : Then you agree with no MPP ? Let's say you declare war on me, but nothing really happens. I get annoyed and decide to sign up an AI against you. The AI will do the job, whereas I'll stay at home, drinking beer and watching TV. ;) Unless you have a real advantage over that AI, you'll suffer a little, while I won't, without paying anything (or so little).

So, then I just sign an MA with another AI against you and we're even. Or I sue for peace with that AI ASAP. I don't see one MA as a problem in a PBEM game, but I can live without them if you prefer...

I'll PM you about our game...

[Socrates]

Re: "Cultural push" : Err, I think I confused myself. [crazyeye] And I see why you say a 'compromise'. I was thinking "no settling in AI cities' 25", not 21 !! :D So you'd like to settle 2 tiles away in diagonal ? Or did I misunderstand you ?

Re: "Military alliances against humans" : What if there is only 1 AI left ? :D Mmmh, I can certainly live with one MA at a time, but that needs some additional rule so as not to fool with it. I'll keep the no MA option as a standard rule, but will allow easy flexibility on this one. I prefer to discuss this flexibility about our game in a new thread (gonna open it now).

[Darkness]

25 is fine. Hadn't though about it that explicitly...
MA's: Your call. I don't mind playing withour MA's against humans.

BTW: Where's that thread? :D

[Socrates]

Meh. You spammer. [groucho]

Re: "Cultural push" : Mmmh, so that means you agree with my initial idea in its entirety ?

Re: "Military alliances against humans" : Oki oki, "no MA" will stay in my ruleset. For our game, go to our bloody thread !!! Oh my, I should open one now. [lol]

[Darkness]

quote:Originally posted by kryszcztov


Re: "Cultural push" : Mmmh, so that means you agree with my initial idea in its entirety ?


yes, sure. No settling in the 25 tiles around an AI city.

[Socrates]

This ruleset will allow me to get rid of what annoys me in Civ3, while waiting for Civ4. Two things come to mind right now :

- I hate volcanoes in Civ3. :D I've already said a lot about them here or at CFC, and I think that, apart from being unrealisticly poor in production, they're a serious annoyance to the city pattern. Why should I bother with a tile type I don't like and with which I choose a universal rule : don't settle next to them EVER ? Volcanoes are for me bad in realism and bad in gameplay : OUT.

- I hate barbs in C3C. :D In PTW they were a mediocre feature, but now, nothing ensures that every game is played with the same INI setting. And this setting can change in the middle of a game, if the last player does change it !!! [eek] Besides this, popping a hut with barbs placed NEXT to the ex-hut, and NOT being able to withdraw a working worker on that turn in a PBEM is utterly non-sense to me. Too bad, because barbs originally had some sense in the game, like forcing someone to escort settlers. But barbs are bad in gameplay, and mediocre in realism (they don't take cities anymore ?) : OUT.

[Socrates]

I was hesitant lately, but now I think I made up my mind. I won't play any other PBEM with Civ3.

I'll finish the current ones, especially the games with more than 2 players, I'll continue to take part in the ISDG, but nothing new. I was thinking of playing a last 1v1 PBEM with no AI and no stupid features, but even that doesn't appeal to me anymore.

I'm what I am, and what I am is a builder and a perfectionist (game-wise). Civ3, and more particularly C3C, is far, very far, really too far from my idealized game and is frustrating me a lot lately. I want to mention the kinds of things that annoy me :
- interface and out-of-game things that don't work, bugs... example : scroll ahead ;
- features that were designed to work but don't work or badly... example : scientific golden age ;
- broken features that unbalance the game too much... examples : armies, SGLs, craters...
- the way Civ has always hidden its formulae and values, like if we didn't want to know all the rules... examples : how many beakers left to next tech ? how much corruption in that city ? ;
- and finally, on a very personal note, the way Civ is too much war-oriented, because of a completely stupid Diplo victory, too hard culture victories, and a space victory that is too long. Yeah I know space should be long, culture hard, but in PBEM you never see them. [blush2] So it always ends up in building the bigger army.

It's still a bit blurry here, but anyway I'm to the point that I only want to play Civ4 so as to get rid of Civ3's nonsense, and I don't care about new resources, new units, (really) new features and all... All I want is to get rid of this shit, and this ruleset isn't able to do it. So it will never be used.

[/rant]