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Darkness
28-02-2005, 21:10
So, my second PBEM…
Again demigod level, with 6 AI and Banzai as the opposition.
Banzai will rule the evil Russians, while I will guide the benevolent Greeks.

First off: A big thank you to the mapmaker, Kemal, who cooked up this map very quickly (and he even gave me a nice start too)… :)

Banzai has an expansionist civ, so he’ll likely be the techleader in the AA, but I expect my commercial trait to catch-up with him later on, and eventually overtake him, off course!

Let’s just hope Banzai’s GH popping doesn’t give him any major breaks (settler in 3900 BC, or something like that), ‘cause then I am confident I’ll be able to catch him later on.
After opening the save, a quick look around tells me there are two other commercial tribes in the game, Korea and the Indians. Full speed to writing it is, especially since I’m not agricultural and one cattle is therefore not enough for a despotic settler factory, so I will want republic ASAP!

The start:

http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/darkness/200522820955_StartvsBanzai.jpg
85.19*KB

Darkness
11-03-2005, 09:44
Turn 7:

Banzai's Russians have popped a settler recently! :( He just jumped ahead in score by around 10 points.
I only had time to build a warrior so far...

Kemal
11-03-2005, 10:36
:(, tough challenge this will be then, I was afraid that this might happen with the chances of getting a city/settler at demigod being so high for expansionistic civs.

Still, nothing is lost of course, maybe it can be an incentive to play even more focused to try and catch up... at least you're now in the underdog position and the pressure is on Banzai to capitalize on his advantage. :)

Good luck!

Kingreno
11-03-2005, 11:01
OTOH the expansionist trait is over for him soon, whilst you have Commercial to assist you all the way. I do not know the map but in many cases the extra setler does not mean automatic victory.

Darkness
11-03-2005, 11:21
I know guys! And I have definately not given up! :) I'll fight back.
He's got the advantage now, but I'll have my first settler out in 7 turns, so I'll have some more possibilities then. I'm gonna play catch-up.

Darkness
26-03-2005, 13:01
Turn 54

This game is going very fast! :)

Good news: I got writing first (turn 41) and I got 5 techs and around 200 gold for it, which I used to establish some embassies

A couple of turns later I met one of Banzai's scouts and I had a nice, friendly chat with him.

Even better news: I got Philosophy first too! :D I picked CoL and have now started my run at Republic.

I also was able to establish an embassy in Banzai's capital:

http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/Darkness/200532612819_Banzais capitalL.JPG
123.33*KB

Banzai still leads in score, due to the settler he got on turn 8, but the difference is now stable at around 50 points.
He is expansionst, but I'm the tech leader... :D
I think I'll be able to secure at least 3, maybe 4 luxuries and horses and iron, just by peacefull expansion and after that the catch-up game will begin... :)

EDIT: Why is the picture not working??? [???]
EDIT2: Thanks Kemal! It's working now. :)

Kemal
26-03-2005, 13:05
Strange... maybe the "'" could be the cause, in the jpg's name?

Darkness
08-04-2005, 21:27
Turn 88:

Restless barbs are painfull.... [help]
Turn 80 (or so) saw at least three civs enter the MA (and Banzai was among those). Banzai gifted or traded Korea and Babylon into the MA for their free techs, but they all got monotheism....
The barbarians were very annoying! At least 60 horsemen were spotted, which killed 3 warriors and a hoplite and they also destroyed some production and stole around 80 gold.... :(

Turn 84 I got Republic (at that point I was lagging currency, construction and polytheism) and immediately revolted, drawing 4 turns of anarchy.

Turn 87 I traded Republic to Japan for the three missing techs and some gold. My free tech was Feudalism! :)
I traded Republic to Korea for Monotheism plus some gold...
Babylon also got republic (for monarchy and gold)

Turn 88 saw the rise of the Greek Republic:

http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/Darkness/200548202040_BanzMAbegin.JPG
204.14KB

I also sold monarchy to India this turn (for Literaturem 138 gold and 17 gpt). Banzai had obtained republic at this point, but that's OK, as I still got feudalism over him!
But he hasn't revolted yet....

http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/Darkness/200548202348_BanzMAbeginF3.JPG
161.46KB

Now I'll be going for Chivalry, as I am building some barracks and will build some horseman soon, because my military is weak vs. all.... Maybe there'll be a small war in the near future. I kind of like the Incan lands (Cuzco has the Pyramids).

Finally, the histograph:

http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/Darkness/200548202512_BanzMAbeginHist.JPG
142.35KB

Darkness
27-04-2005, 20:27
Turn 122:

Things started out louzy when I opened turn 122.... :(

http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/Darkness/2005427191143_Syracuse flips.JPG
49.2KB

Then the game crashed, which made my mood even worse... :(

So I loaded it again. This time it was only half bad. Syracuse still flipped, but at least the game didn't crash....

Last turn I discovered chivalry (which I researched slowly, to both get some cash and get the chance to build some horseman for upgrades). I also hooked up Iron last turn. So I upgraded 16 (of the 20-something I had at this point) horseman.

So now things are about to get interesting! :D

The target is the Inca's. They have wines and gems, and Cuzco holds both the Pyramids (interesting :)) and the Temple of Artemis (less interesting). Unfortunately they also have Iron and Horses.

In turn 122 I attacked:
The first signs were good!

http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/Darkness/2005427191739_Machu Picchu.JPG
203.18KB

So was the second sign...

http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/Darkness/200542719212_Vilcas.JPG
110.38KB

And no complaints about attack no.3 either.

http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/Darkness/2005427192145_Nasca.JPG
96.74KB

My army is strong vs the Inca. Actually, my army is strong vs most civs in the game. Only Babylon (average) and Korea (weak) are the exceptions. The best part of this is, off course, that the Koreans are Banzai's southern neighbours.... :D

http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/Darkness/2005427192646_IncaF3.JPG
80.29KB

And finally, in honour of our mapmaker, the demographics:

http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/Darkness/2005427192726_IncaF11.JPG
46.15KB

Kemal
27-04-2005, 20:32
[lol], that last screen sure is interesting.. any idea who could be no 1 and 2 in mfg goods? Are some AIs in GA, perhaps?

Darkness
27-04-2005, 20:49
quote:Originally posted by Kemal

[lol], that last screen sure is interesting.. any idea who could be no 1 and 2 in mfg goods? Are some AIs in GA, perhaps?


Could be, though I don't think that's likely. No AI has the right wonder combination, as far as I can see. And though there are a lot of UU's around, F4 hasn't shown any wars, IIRC...

No1 and 2. Definately Korea is no1. They are very strong. I am quite happy they are Banzai's neighbour. No2 is hard to say... Japan, India and Babylon are the main candidates for that distinction, but they're all pretty close (but so am I). I was no4 in mfg at the start of turn 122, but I am no3 at the end of the turn.

Darkness
28-04-2005, 00:52
Turn 123

I took 3 more Inca cities this turn, and had no losses doing so.

This is what the known world looks like now:

http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/Darkness/2005427235038_minimap.JPG
34.65KB

The Inca couterstrike (3 knights) killed an injured Greek knight and a hoplite, but not before the hoplite had done its' job:

http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/Darkness/2005427235148_Golden Age.JPG
41.53KB

Darkness
02-05-2005, 23:13
Turn 128:

A couple of turns ago Banzai declared war on me and got the Indians to do the same. Banzai's not a problem as he's quite far away, but I do share a border with India, so I have to protect my flank. Some knights/horseman, 2 hoplites and a pair of warriors are doing a good job of stalling India until I can get them to sign peace (though an India Elephant did trigger Gandhi's GA... :(

My advance continues:
http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/Darkness/200552221131_Cuzco.JPG
176.91KB

Cuzco also has the Pyramids! :) This was my main target for this war, but I'll try to get as much from the Inca as I can. I already took their source of wines, but they also have gems, and I want those too....

Darkness
10-05-2005, 00:18
Turn 138:

:D

http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/Darkness/200559231551_Dead Inca.JPG
155.42*KB

This was a great golden age (and I've still got 4 or 5 turns of GA to go :)) for the Greeks. My little war gained me the Pyramids, the Temple of Artemis, and 2 luxuries. :)

Next target: the Hittites. They have another luxury that I can use. After all, who wants to have only six luxuries when a seventh is available?

Pastorius
10-05-2005, 01:20
Good work, now say the name of the city you just captured as fast as you can 10 times

More on topic:
Btw- why not taking out Japan while you are warmongering? In the minimap they seem small, unless they have some sort of strategical purpose I cant grasp (?)

Darkness
10-05-2005, 11:45
Why not Japan? Good question!

5 reasons:
- Japan is larger (and more powerful) than the minimap indicates.
- Japan and Korea are a nice buffer between me and Banzai (Banzai will get his 3 move Cossacks in a while, so I'd like to have a buffer between the two of us).
- Hittites have a luxury I don't have. Japan does not.
- I want to clean out my backyard before moving in Banzai's direction. First the Hittites, then India and lastly Babylon.
- Japan and Korea are the most advanced civs in the game. They already have chemistry, so muskets could very well be their defense. The others haven't got gunpowder yet.

Pastorius
10-05-2005, 22:30
Very good points. I kind of guessed about the buffer role already, but I didnt know about the size and strength.

What do you expect as a reasonable timeframe till Banzai has cossack capability? Do you have enough time to move against all 3 of your neighbours before you can expect an attack?

Care to post a core screenie? I d like to learn a little more about developed pbem cores in C3C....

Darkness
10-05-2005, 23:44
My core

http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/Darkness/2005510223722_Core.JPG
169.76KB

This is just before I traded for gunpowder. I am now researching chemistry.

Banzai is still lacking gunpowder, so I am guessing I have at least 15-20 turns before he gets cossacks. Then he'll need to get past Korea and Japan, which will be difficult as they are quite strong. That will take him another 20-30 turns. I know Banzai could also sail around the continent and try to reach me, but I've got some galleys watching out for that. That will give me 35-50 turns to clean my backyard. In 35 turns I can definately kill the Hittites and the Indians. Babylon is a bit further away, so that will be more difficult.

Melifluous
11-05-2005, 11:55
Are you forgetting RoPs ?

Darkness
11-05-2005, 12:26
quote:Originally posted by Melifluous

Are you forgetting RoPs ?


No, I'm not. But I have embassies with Japan and Korea and I check F4 every turn, so I'd notice if Banzai signed those. I still have some units at my border with Japan though, just in case. ;) The fact that the Inca have built ToA before I conquered them is more useful than I originally imagined, 'cause the border expansions will take away Banzai's movement points if he decides to ROP with Korea and Japan to try to catch me off guard. :)
Besides, and I didn't mention this before, at the moment I have an ROP with Korea and I have a warrior strategically placed in the Korean lands, so he'd spot Banzai's approaching armies should he try to catch me off guard. :D

Darkness
30-05-2005, 23:39
Banzai's going fast! He got Metallurgy recently. Same time as I did. Though I imagine Chemistry must have cost him quite a bit. It seems cossacks are on the horizon... :(

I am still the most powerful civ though, and only Korea is ahead by MT, which I'll get in 7 turns at most.

Darkness
04-08-2005, 22:31
Turn 171

A while ago Banzai went to war with the Koreans (and me), but so far he has gained very little. Some cities were razed, but the border is essentially still in the same place it was before.

I went to war with the Hittites, just like I mentioned a few posts back. I kicked them out quite easily, but unfortunately they had one city near Banzai, so now he's protecting them.
So, with that target out of range, I went for the next-in-line: the Indians, and the result was very welcome indeed:

http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/Darkness/20058420581_171 Indians die.JPG
134.94*KB


Here's F3, and the minimap:

http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/Darkness/200584212444_171 F3.JPG
175.4*KB


The demographics:

http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/Darkness/200584212527_171 F11.JPG
142.39*KB
I am second in MFG, 'cause Banzai used his cossacks to trigger his GA. The rest looks fine to me. :)

Now I'll regroup my forces and take out Babylon (red). The plan is to rush a lot of galleys on Babylon's east coast and set sail for Banzai's core, once I can upgrade to caravels and have access to navigation...

How to do that? Simple. Korea already has naviagation, and Japan will most likely get it in a short while, so that makes this a very, very interesting target, after I've taken care of Babylon:

http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/Darkness/200584212937_171 Target.JPG
190.78*KB

I am quite confident that I can handle Babylon, so I am already sending some forces to the Japanese border, so I can strike when I want.
Basically, the only threats in this game are Korea (my best friend in this game) and Banzai, and they're busy fighting eachother... :)

Rik Meleet
05-08-2005, 01:33
Have you made plans in case Banzai manages to capture Osaka unexpectedly in a surprise raid and -after getting the techs- abandons the city ?

Darkness
05-08-2005, 01:47
quote:Originally posted by Rik Meleet

Have you made plans in case Banzai manages to capture Osaka unexpectedly in a surprise raid and -after getting the techs- abandons the city ?


IMHO it is highly unlikely that Banzai will manage to pull that off. He's not getting anywhere against the no1 AI, Korea...
And, Pyongyang (Korea) is much easier to reach for him, and that city has both Sun Tzu's and Leo's, so I think Banzai has other priorities than picking a fight with Japan...
Besides, he has more than once expressed his concern over my fast growth towards domination, so any surprise attack he makes will most likely be an attack on me. For which I am ready, 'cause I have some muskets and a dozen cavalry standing by at the most likely point of attack (and plenty of reinforcements within 2 turns distance)... :D

Darkness
13-08-2005, 02:16
Well, this took me about 50-60 elite wins, but finally I got him...


http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/Darkness/200581311623_MGL.JPG
176.85KB

akots
13-08-2005, 02:44
Looking at that minimap, the difference in size of your empires is huge. How far are you from the domination limit now? I'm not very accurate at guessing but seems that with remains of Babylon and half of Japan you might be able to hit the Domination limit?

Darkness
13-08-2005, 02:51
quote:Originally posted by akots

How far are you from the domination limit now?


Land: 47%
Population: somewhere in the low fifties...

Darkness
23-08-2005, 21:48
quote:Originally posted by Rik Meleet

Have you made plans in case Banzai manages to capture Osaka unexpectedly in a surprise raid and -after getting the techs- abandons the city ?


Maybe I should have listened to you, 'cause Osaka vanished a couple of turns ago... :(
Time for plan B...

Turn 182
Banzai has just done me a huge favour! He has eliminated the Hittites who had an MA with me against him. Considering we agreed before the game to have only one MA at a time against the other human, this leaves me free to choose another ally:

http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/Darkness/2005823204612_Koreanalliance.JPG
196.6KB
His friendly southern neighbour of course... :)
This should keep him occupied while I execute plan B...

Land is now at 54%, population is at 56%. All I need to do is kick out Japan, but to do that I will need to move my troops from the north back to the new front line, which will take a few turns....

Darkness
03-09-2005, 21:12
Turn 199

Well, Banzai left for a vacation today, so I suppose this is as good a time as any to update this spoiler.

4 nations remain. Banzai's Russians and his ally the Japanese, as well as my Greek empire and my friendly allies Korea.

My frontline:

http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/Darkness/20059320726_199 Frontline.JPG
194.03KB

So I am nearing the domination limit. If I can take out Japan I will win the game...
2 problems are obstructing this worthy goal:
- I am the only one who is not in the Industrial ages, and I will never get there anyway...
- Banzai's had some forces in Japanese territory, which he used to raze one of my cities (which forces me to eliminate 6 cossacks and a knight army), and I fear he might have more...

So I am building a big cavalry force to storm through Japan and kill all Russians that might get in the way... I hope....

http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/Darkness/200593201129_199 F3.JPG
175.96KB

I guess we'll see what happens after Banzai returns from his vacation. :)

Darkness
11-10-2005, 01:24
Turn 215

I have conceded the game. :(

Korea and Japan kept declaring war on me and while I was busy fighting them, Banzai delivered a killing blow by sending a force of cossacks together with at least two cossack armies and a rifleman army through Korean lands and I lost virtually my entire army. Although I managed to kill his rifleman army, I have only ten cavalries left near the frontline...

Great move by Banzai! [goodjob]

Fun game though. :)

Beam
11-10-2005, 01:56
OMG, where did this go wrong?

akots
11-10-2005, 02:34
Yes, very curious about that. With that huge empire, you should be able to make 10 cavalries per turn or even more. Or research steam power at least. [confused]

Rik Meleet
11-10-2005, 03:31
WTF ??? How could you loose this ?

grahamiam
11-10-2005, 04:14
riflemen? that means he was mobilized. The amount of forces he built must have been quite large. Curious what he had at turns 182 and 199, compared to yours.

Darkness
11-10-2005, 09:50
Where did this go wrong?

About 50 turns ago, I think...

Some errors I made:

- Stopped research at Military Tradition and Education. Banzai and the AI are in the Industrial Era. I did this to prevent obsoletion of the Temple of Artemis, which, I hoped, would help in my quest for quick domination.

- I sent a force (by ships) towards Banzai. The force did some damage, but I should have kept them for my wars against Japan.

- I declared war on Banzai a long time ago. About the time when we were still of equal size. I did this to ally Korea against him, hoping that this would keep him busy. Since then we have been at war and War Weariness is at 50-60% in a lot of my cities.

- I did not build the Military Academy. In hindsight that was an error. I had a few (2 or 3) armies, which all just fell ogver when attacked by a single (or two) cossack. So I decided not to invest shields in armies, but gamble all out on cavalries. Wrong choice, obsviously.

- Banzai stationed three cossack armies in Japan, and these decimeted my troops every time I wanted to make a move on Japan. I only got rid of them about 20 turns ago, but by then it was already too late, as Banzai reached the point where he had more production than my huge, corrupted empire.



@Grahamiam: Banzai has been Average/Strong on F3 towards me for at least 25 turns.

@akots: You'd be amazed how much corruption such a large empire has, even with an FP. You'd also be amazed how annoying 50% War Weariness for 50 turns is... I managed 5-6 cavalries at best.

So, four or five turns ago I started invading Japan. After I finally had built up enough cavalries to seriously challenge Japan, I was able to take 4 cities. Two turns ago I positioned my troops to attack two more cities, but when I opened turn 215, Banzai had managed to sneak through the Korean lands and he had captured two of the cities I had just liberated from Japan. As these two cities were closer to my own lands than the other two cities I had taken, my army was out of position for this (not a single cavalry between Banzai's forces and my borders), so I had no choice but to attack Banzai, in a desperate attempt to save my lands. Unfortunately the rng didn't like me, as I lost about 20-25 cavalries getting back a single city (rifleman army defending), and then I noticed his other forces. At least one more rifleman, ten cossacks and two 17/17 cossack armies. My ten remaining cavalries (all injured btw) can't stand against this and the way to my lands is completely open.
This led me to the simple conclusion that this game is over.

A great move by Banzai! He caught me at the worst possible time. If I hadn't had my forces precisely positioned to attack Japan next turn, it could have quite different.

Pastorius
11-10-2005, 10:14
Ah, seems like well played game.

By both.

And one was sneakier - senakier even ;)

akots
11-10-2005, 11:33
Well, looking at the F3 screen on turn 199 as posted above, it does seem that your military was kind of modest or so to speak. But you were indeed within a hair's width from domination.

Banzai
11-10-2005, 11:37
w00t!
I am a bit (? bigtime!) surprised you surrendered..
When you invaded Japan I had to act quickly because domination was not far away. Luckily Moscow finished an army right on time.
I sent almost everything I had through Korean lands to slow you down and I was a bit afraid you would spot them.. they were so close to your borders last turn :)
A 16/16 rifle army on hills in a size 7 city sure can handle a punch ;)

I have indeed been mobilized almost all the time (except the last few turns to rush some vital courthouses and markets) and was producing cossacks and rifles non stop.
Now being aided by railroads and factories not far away my production would increase quickly.
This attack was only to stop yours and to buy me some more time.. never expected it to be so succesfull.

Thanks for this great game! It kept me on edge all the time :)
Oh and I was suffering from war weariness too - 30 to 40% from Korea, none from you.

Why didn't you send your galleys back? The chance of another invasion would force me to keep more units in reserve, like I kept yours busy in your backyard with my invasions.

Talk to you later..
Banzai!

Darkness
11-10-2005, 11:49
quote:Originally posted by Banzai


Why didn't you send your galleys back? The chance of another invasion would force me to keep more units in reserve, like I kept yours busy in your backyard with my invasions.


Because the previous invasion was a suicide run.
There is no safe sea route between us. I gambled big time with the previous invasion. I hoped to catch you off gaurd with a significant force (to get you busy enough so I could focus on Japan). At that time I was already suffering from heavy WW, and I had to do something...
Unfortunately half of my galleys sunk, taking 14 cavs, 1 musket and one cannon to the bottom of the ocean. :(

Banzai
11-10-2005, 11:56
aww... those 14 additional cavs would have destroyed me.
I had to use my entire cash reserve (2000 gold) to rush cossacks all over the place to counter your invasion and had to use all of them to get rid of your stack.
My armies were all in Japan at that time.

Darkness
11-10-2005, 12:05
quote:Originally posted by Banzai


My armies were all in Japan at that time.



I know. That's why I sent them. I was hoping to force you to retreat them, but unfortunately I didn't succeed in that.