View Full Version : When you know you just won a discussion....
Lt. Killer M
22-02-2005, 09:59
http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/Lt. Killer M/200522210058_FL2medium.jpg
78.62 KB
[estwing] seems this creationist finally ran out of (stooopid) arguments ;)
Darkness
22-02-2005, 10:25
Nice! :D
Though I'd like to see him try to provide a foundation for his claims in the frist paragraph of that post...
Me go lookie up that thread now! :)
Darkness
22-02-2005, 10:26
Ah, damn, it's a PM... Missed that on the first read... [blush]
Pastorius
22-02-2005, 10:34
So Killer, did you report the PM?
Twasnt very nice, was it [nono]
Dinos 1 - Christian fundamentalists 0
Lt. Killer M
22-02-2005, 10:41
hehe
@ darkness: 'Perfection KOs creationism'
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=92872
Paal: I did. ainwood was NOT amused ;)
Pastorius
22-02-2005, 10:46
Odd. FL2 edited out all his replies in that thread it seems. Must have taken him a while...
Lt. Killer M
22-02-2005, 10:54
did he?
loser!
Lt. Killer M
22-02-2005, 10:56
actually, I can see a lot of them still, especially on the early pages. Luckily I alos quoted an especially dense one fully:
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=2038360&postcount=159
Pastorius
22-02-2005, 10:58
Great quote. Funny how creationists always claim that ToE is inconsistent.
Love your CFC sig man :D
Lt. Killer M
22-02-2005, 10:59
har har har ;)
Darkness
22-02-2005, 11:22
quote:Originally posted by Paalikles
Love your CFC sig man :D
Yep, especially the "signature" spelling error... ;)
Lt. Killer M
22-02-2005, 11:23
hehe, I *should* have spelled it 'jsut', too!
Melifluous
22-02-2005, 11:33
Top notch!
Dont you just love it when people resort to just roundly cussing you.
Ah imagine that, 3 hours taken off his life in one hot blast of vitriol.
You can almost hear the arteries hardening from here...
Melifluous
Rik Meleet
22-02-2005, 12:57
You are CarlosMM ???
Melifluous
22-02-2005, 12:59
[lol][lol][lol][lol][lol][lol][lol][lol][lol][lol][lol][lol][lol][lol]
[lol][lol][lol][lol][lol][lol][lol][lol][lol][lol][lol][lol][lol][lol]
[lol][lol][lol][lol][lol][lol][lol][lol][lol][lol][lol][lol][lol][lol]
[lol][lol][lol][lol][lol][lol][lol][lol][lol][lol][lol][lol][lol][lol]
[lol][lol][lol][lol][lol][lol][lol][lol][lol][lol][lol][lol][lol][lol]
[lol][lol][lol][lol][lol][lol][crazyeye][lol][lol][lol][lol][lol][lol][lol]
[lol][lol][lol][lol][lol][lol][lol][lol][lol][lol][lol][lol][lol][lol]
[lol][lol][lol][lol][lol][lol][lol][lol][lol][lol][lol][lol][lol][lol]
[lol][lol][lol][lol][lol][lol][lol][lol][lol][lol][lol][lol][lol][lol]
[lol][lol][lol][lol][lol][lol][lol][lol][lol][lol][lol][lol][lol][lol]
[lol][lol][lol][lol][lol][lol][lol][lol][lol][lol][lol][lol][lol][lol]
[lol][lol][lol][lol][lol][lol][lol][lol][lol][lol][lol][lol][lol][lol]
[lol][lol][lol][lol][lol][lol][lol][lol][lol][lol][lol][lol][lol][lol]
Damn that was funny.
Melifluous
Melifluous
22-02-2005, 13:01
He started CarlosMM, because he thought that Killer was getting too many personal attacks.
Nice to see that that has changed [:p]
Melifluous
Darkness
22-02-2005, 13:17
quote:Originally posted by Melifluous
He started CarlosMM, because he thought that Killer was getting too many personal attacks.
Nice to see that that has changed [:p]
Melifluous
It's not the name, it's the sunny personality....[tongue]
Lt. Killer M
22-02-2005, 13:21
Darkness: what do you mean - am I NOT sunny????
(the name was chosen so that AoA wouldn#t recognize it as a DL of Killer EVER!)
Pastorius
22-02-2005, 13:23
Ok, enlighten me: you did that with TF's permission, no?
And yes, by the looks of the smiley tryout thread, you are sunny :D[:p]
Lt. Killer M
22-02-2005, 13:29
well, I added it, waited a few days to see if AOA saw it, then told TF. he OKed it ([thumbsup]).
Darkness
22-02-2005, 14:01
quote:Originally posted by Lt. Killer M
Darkness: what do you mean - am I NOT sunny????
[tongue];) I was referring to your particular style of posting, actually. IMHO it hasn't changed much. It's now maybe a little less confrontational and direct, but not by much...
Lt. Killer M
22-02-2005, 14:04
[cry]
grahamiam
22-02-2005, 14:06
[rotfl]
that made my morning! [lol] didn't know jesus-freaks were allowed to curse like that [lol]
Socrates
22-02-2005, 14:07
I first wanted to tell this guy to fuck off or I would sodomize Jesus very hard in front of him, but then saw it was a PM. ;) And he deleted many of his posts there too... (Boooooh ! :D ) Getting perm-banned from CFC won't bother me much now, so someday I might be tempted to do a silly thing.
Only <s>God</s> <s>the Devil</s> <s>M. Smith</s> no one knows what will happen. [mischief]
EDIT : Before everyone gangs up on me ;) I'd like to state this was a provocative joke, just to see this guy's reaction... or maybe express my anger at that kind of guy in a quick way... Who said anger comes in a peaceful and controlled way ? ;) Those guys are one of the reasons I don't like CFC anymore. OT is dead-boring when you see the same arguments over and over... Some like to counter them (I'm thinking of Killer and Stapel), others (me) have enough of this shit.
Your lapdog Perfection? [lol] That's a good one. (not a fan of Perfection... and neither of FL)
Killer, why aren't you posting in AG15? Not interested? [groucho]
Melifluous
22-02-2005, 14:42
quote:Originally posted by kryszcztov
...or I would sodomize Jesus very hard in front of him.
I've tried that, religious people just pass out or ask to be next.
No fun at all
:(
Melifluous
Socrates
22-02-2005, 15:20
quote:Originally posted by Melifluous
I've tried that, religious people just pass out or ask to be next.
Perverse !! They're all perverse !! [eek]
And BTW, you can see it in this guy's PM : why do they always have to invoke Jesus to bless us and forgive us and love us ?? Just like if they wanted to have the last word of the discussion. ;) Why do they always have to make a public and universal fact of their inner faith ?
Because true christians believe that they have to spread the virus -... ehm ... faith. It's in the bible. Jesus said it... The trigger for 2000 years of war.
Pastorius
22-02-2005, 15:26
I deteste the concept of mission. Faith is and should be personal. [rant]
barbu1977
22-02-2005, 15:27
Quite a freak, from his signature, he is also denying global warming.
Melifluous
22-02-2005, 15:27
I think they add that as a disclaimer...
"I'm not stupid, I'm religious"
Melifluous
Socrates
22-02-2005, 15:28
quote:Originally posted by Aggie
Because true christians believe that they have to spread the virus -... ehm ... faith. It's in the bible. Jesus said it... The trigger for 2000 years of war.
I think that faith should be "transmitted" (a guy convinces another guy) through rational arguments, not through Jesus-whatnot-thingie ways. If I'm to Believe, I want it to be backed by a rational thinking about how it will improve my life and my siblings' lives. Until then... ta ta. [groucho]
Melifluous
22-02-2005, 15:43
Religion IMHO was a construct invented solely to convince peasants to eat shit and smile cos when they die they're going to heaven.
A handy crutch in a hotspot, but the idea as a truth holds water like a paper bucket.
Melifluous
Melifluous
22-02-2005, 15:44
Hey Killer!
I just had a nice idea, invite him here and we can all have a nice uncencored discussion on why he is so wrong.
Then he'll realise that you are the intelligent one here ;)
Melifluous
Lt. Killer M
22-02-2005, 15:45
@aggie: because I totally missed the thread [eek]
@ meli: har har har! [estwing]
Melifluous
22-02-2005, 15:58
quote:Originally posted by barbu1977
Quite a freak, from his signature, he is also denying global warming.
Now that is something I am wavering on.
It is undeniable that the output from modern industry is not making our world a nicer place to live, but to be arrogant enough to believe that our factories can do anything like what 200,000 years of volcanos could not...
Also.
It gets hot sometimes (how hot does it have to be to have 14 metre tall cold blooded lizards running around). And it gets cold sometimes (Ice Age anyone?) I checked those links on the FL2s sig and it was quite an informative answer. (Not by FL2 of course)
Melifluous
Lt. Killer M
22-02-2005, 16:00
meli:
a) dinosaurs were all warmblooded.
b) volcanic activity DID change the climate - but it doesn't start as sudden.
c) it began long before factories. If you want I'll mail you a PDF of an article that proves that.
Pastorius
22-02-2005, 16:13
Here we go again [crazyeye] [estwing]
Lt. Killer M
22-02-2005, 16:25
no, Paal, most certainly not. Meli may be uninformed or misinformed, but he will in no case ever deny facts, twist arguemnts and lie to support his position.
I am quite sure that if I present the evidence to him in an ordered way he will agree with me ;)
[estwing] [:p]
Melifluous
22-02-2005, 16:29
Indeed.
I may be ignorant but I'm not close minded.
However blooded dinosaurs were, will you not conceed that it was considerable warmer in the past?
Melifluous
Melifluous
22-02-2005, 16:32
Also Killer, if "so-called" global warming began before factories then what the hell started it? If it wasn't factories causing global warming then maybe it could be a long term cyclical change happening.
I do hope people dont just believe in global warming solely because Americans do not, that would be worse that religion.
Just curious you understand, not calling you a shit faced liar or anything.
Melifluous
Lt. Killer M
22-02-2005, 16:38
meli: read the PDF (that is, give me an email where I can send a 1MB email).
in short: RICE did it!
Melifluous
22-02-2005, 16:43
Now that I can believe.
Evil little fucker worse than Patten and Ronald 'where are my marbles' Reagan put together.
Erm my hotmail accepts bigger mail now, send it to my MSN addy steve marsden broad at blah blah blah.
k?
Melifluous
PS. Sidenote, does anyone else get Ronald Reagan and Ronald McDonald mixed up?
Lt. Killer M
22-02-2005, 16:49
sent, Ronny ;)
Socrates
22-02-2005, 17:02
quote:Originally posted by Melifluous
I may be ignorant but I'm not close minded.
That's a very important thing. :) Socrates considered himself ignorant on many if not all subjects, but was aware of it, unlike many of the Athenian people. Instead he tried to prove that many of them were ignorant, and so that he was the one with most knowledge.
Socrates kicks ass. [groucho]
haha. Somthing I saw on TV last thursday (a BBC documentairy) on global warming. all the dust and stuff in the air cause an effect called global dimming. This cools down the earth. Our efforts in reducing polution (Kyoto) are mainly focused on reducing 'visible' pollution. E.g. dust, carbon parts. This will lessen the effect on global dimming, but will hardly effect the increased greenhouse problems.
Scientists expect the the temperature increase to double, being 10 degrees higher within a 100 years. This basically means half the world will be ocean due to the melting of polar ice, and the other half will be a desert, much like the Sahel.
What strikes me is that nobody has a solution for these kind of problems, nor can they prove with 100% certainty their theories are valid. If they are true however the impacts are big enough to start worrying now. IMO denial is always wrong, better save than sorry on this one. That's one of the main raesons I hate Bush, he is to stupid to take notice.
I leave it here, note that I am not an expert nor very well informed on the subject. But if anyone has more/different info I would like to know. Just curious.
Melifluous
22-02-2005, 17:19
I love the idea of trying to prove that you are clever by proving that everyone else is stupid.
Got him killed though didnt it?
I found this quote from Plato's Apology, telling of Socrates' words at his trial, at which he was subsequently sentenced to death.
quote:Socrates then tells the story of his friend Chairephon, who went to an oracle when they were younger. The oracle told Chairephon that no one is wiser than Socrates. Upon hearing this, Socrates made it his duty to question men with established reputations, who were believed to be the wisest in Athens. Since his youth, Socrates' goal was to see if he could find one man truly wiser than him. Politicians, poets, and theologians were among the many he pursued. Socrates found that after examining their moral values, they were not wise, as they had appeared. "In my investigation in the service of the god I found that those who had the highest reputation were nearly the most deficient, while those who were thought to be inferior were more knowledgeable"
He is indeed a star :D
Melifluous
PS. Killer? Good point well made. I see you meant Rice and not Concertina Rice that American bod.
Socrates
22-02-2005, 19:41
Yes Meli, and if I said this, it's because I've just finished reading Socrates's Apology by Plato (note the difference ;) ). The odd part is that his whole goal in his life was determined by some strange oracle ; in essence, Apollo "told" Socrates to restlessly find a man wiser than him. Socrates's devotion to the god (even until death was ensured !) strikes me, as in fact Socrates backs the birth of Philosophy with a pure religious faith. [eek] But hey, who said no theory had some kind of paradox at its root ? :D
Pastorius
22-02-2005, 20:00
Well Krys, consider the source. Socrates did not write anything. Plato did...
He might have induced the faith into the story himself...not saying it is so, but it is possible.
quote:Originally posted by Lt. Killer M
meli:
a) dinosaurs were all warmblooded.
I'm not so sure as to none of them were poikilothermic. And by no means they could have been homoiothermic in a sense that mammals or even birds are. IMO, this is mostly a theory which is rather poorly supported but I've not read of it recently.
Well, I guess the more you know , the more complicated it gets. ;)
Melifluous
23-02-2005, 04:20
quote:Originally posted by akots
[brIMO, this is mostly a theory which is rather poorly supported but I've not read of it recently.
Queue a page of badly spelt explanation.
[mischief]
Melifluous
But what is unclear?
Edited: OK, seems I'm getting the point. Never mind. Lets put it this way.
What were the most prominent features of dinos? They were big, at least many of their species. What does this mean? It means they were overheating. Why? because body of any being generates some heat during metabolism and digestion of nutrients since efficacy of digestion is never 100%. The extra chemical energy from nutrients goes to heat. Then, how is it possible to get rid of this heat? It is dissipating from the surface of the body. But the amount of this heat is proportional to the mass of the body. So, surface (and heat loss from it) is proportional to the square of dimensions of the body and generation of heat is proportional to the mass which depends on the volume which is proportional to the cube of dimensions of the body. Cube is always larger than square. So, any body which is consuming anything needs to get rid of the extra heat (or to conserve this heat depending on the temperature of the surrounding but this would be complicated vascular physiology and out of the scope of this topic imo).
This makes the things clear when comparing temperature and balance of energy of mouse versus elephant. Lets consider normal climate. Mouse is small and ratio of surface to volume is large. So, mouse has to eat a lot more relatively to its mass than the elephant. Because of this circulation of blood in mouse is very rapid and it has a short life but full of intensive adventures. On the other hand, elephant has slow circulation and need less food daily than a mouse relatively to its mass. Also, elephants live longer and their life activity is more stable.
Certainly, there are some other means for various other animals/beings but in general this is true for almost every being which lives on solid grounds without chronically emerging them in liquid be it dirt of swamp or waters of the ocean.
Since many dinos were huge, basically as huge as elephants or even larger, it was a theory that the temperature inside their bodies has been extremely high considering that they had a relatively slow circulation and blood needed substantial time to draw this heat to their skin. IIRC, a few scientists proclaimed that it was as high as +70 degrees Celsius or even more in any weather be it cold night or bright hot and humid day. This makes them pseudo-homoiothermic and really very-very hot-blooded.
This distinguishes them from normal homoiothermic animals/birds who have specific means to produce heat even at little size by means of specifically evolved mechanisms which include molecules and neuronal networks regulating the production of heat and emission of heat by the body through the skin.
I've been really fascinated by the theories of how the life emerged on earth when I was a student. And my current boss is now preparing a book about the origin of life and I'm helping him out a bit here.
It is extremely complicated and the current knowledge as it stands now does not answer yes or no either to creationism or theory of evolution regarding the first primitive life forms in a definitive manner. It seems that a theory which assumes that the most primitive life forms were brought to earth from space is growing more popular recently again. However, there is little doubt that subsequent process of evolution up to the primates had indeed occurred. Then, there is a mystery of human evolution which is not quite solved atm with many black spots. And there has been always the big dino mystery So, lets put it this way:
God of Universe or mere chance has sent us a seed of life a few billion years ago which then grew and matured into the present life forms and then, a few million years ago, God of Man or mysterious clash of circumstances has started to culminate this evolution into a dominating species of H. sapiens in its present from. This point of view might satisfy both the scientists who actually happen to believe in God and those who believe in nothing.
Sorry for long post of nonsense.
@Meli: I have checked the spelling. ;)
FearlessLeader2
23-02-2005, 10:00
Well, I'm not dumb enough to put a link to my violation of the forum rules in my sig, at any rate.
Have a nice day.
Pastorius
23-02-2005, 10:04
quote:What can't you post?
You agree, through your use of this service, that you will not use this forum to post any material which is knowingly false and/or defamatory, inaccurate, abusive, vulgar, hateful, harassing, obscene, profane, sexually oriented, threatening, invasive of a person's privacy, or otherwise violative of any law. You agree not to post any copyrighted material unless the copyright is owned by you or by this forum.
So you mean that this rule was broken when he posted a screenshot of your violation of that rule?
From what I can tell of your pm to him:
Obscene, vulgar, hateful.
[nono]
An advice: Dont send people private messages with questionable content. ;)
Lt. Killer M
23-02-2005, 10:27
I'll try to answer this today, but work is busy....
quote:Originally posted by akots
quote:Originally posted by Lt. Killer M
meli:
a) dinosaurs were all warmblooded.
I'm not so sure as to none of them were poikilothermic. And by no means they could have been homoiothermic in a sense that mammals or even birds are. IMO, this is mostly a theory which is rather poorly supported but I've not read of it recently.
Well, I guess the more you know , the more complicated it gets. ;)
quote:Originally posted by akots
But what is unclear?
Edited: OK, seems I'm getting the point. Never mind. Lets put it this way.
What were the most prominent features of dinos? They were big, at least many of their species.
compared to what?
If you compare dinosaurs to mammals they are on average not larger than diunral mammals. Think birds. Even the supposedly so huge sauropods were usually not much bigger than the biggest (extinct) mammals - Gigantothers and Baluchithers and other large rhinos.
quote: What does this mean? It means they were overheating. Why? because body of any being generates some heat during metabolism and digestion of nutrients since efficacy of digestion is never 100%. The extra chemical energy from nutrients goes to heat.
Too fast, too far.
In fact, if dinosaurs were, as they are today, avian style endotherms, even the most gigantic sauropods did not produce more heat (at smae activity level) as the largest (extinct) mammals. An average hadrosaur, at about 150 to 200% the mass, produced then not mroe heat than an average cow, a sauropod about as much as a large bison.
quote: Then, how is it possible to get rid of this heat? It is dissipating from the surface of the body. But the amount of this heat is proportional to the mass of the body. So, surface (and heat loss from it) is proportional to the square of dimensions of the body and generation of heat is proportional to the mass which depends on the volume which is proportional to the cube of dimensions of the body. Cube is always larger than square. So, any body which is consuming anything needs to get rid of the extra heat (or to conserve this heat depending on the temperature of the surrounding but this would be complicated vascular physiology and out of the scope of this topic imo).Which is the reason that large ammals in hot areas have learned a few tricks to dissipate energy more effectively: wag large ears, spray yourself with water, do away with hair, stay out of the sun, do not retain heat from expelled air.
quote:This makes the things clear when comparing temperature and balance of energy of mouse versus elephant. Lets consider normal climate. Mouse is small and ratio of surface to volume is large. So, mouse has to eat a lot more relatively to its mass than the elephant. Because of this circulation of blood in mouse is very rapid and it has a short life but full of intensive adventures. On the other hand, elephant has slow circulation and need less food daily than a mouse relatively to its mass. Also, elephants live longer and their life activity is more stable.couple this with the avian style endothermy and you get to tiny feathered dinos (hummingbirds) and whopping 30 ton monsters easily! :)
quote:Certainly, there are some other means for various other animals/beings but in general this is true for almost every being which lives on solid grounds without chronically emerging them in liquid be it dirt of swamp or waters of the ocean.Yep.
quote:Since many dinos were huge, basically as huge as elephants or even larger, it was a theory that the temperature inside their bodies has been extremely high considering that they had a relatively slow circulation and blood needed substantial time to draw this heat to their skin. IIRC, a few scientists proclaimed that it was as high as +70 degrees Celsius or even more in any weather be it cold night or bright hot and humid day. This makes them pseudo-homoiothermic and really very-very hot-blooded.The big problem with this is: how did they get this large? The biggest eggs have a volume of maybe 5 liters, 7 for the very largest..... Also, the entire history shows this is nonsense: only the very few most developed lines ever got this big, on average most linages stayed small (cow size or smaller) and they all descend from very similar looking small ancestors (80kb @ most!)
quote:This distinguishes them from normal homoiothermic animals/birds who have specific means to produce heat even at little size by means of specifically evolved mechanisms which include molecules and neuronal networks regulating the production of heat and emission of heat by the body through the skin.As said, mass homeothermy sucks as a theory ;)
quote:I've been really fascinated by the theories of how the life emerged on earth when I was a student. And my current boss is now preparing a book about the origin of life and I'm helping him out a bit here.[great - give us the title when it is out :)
quote:It is extremely complicated and the current knowledge as it stands now does not answer yes or no either to creationism or theory of evolution regarding the first primitive life forms in a definitive manner. It seems that a theory which assumes that the most primitive life forms were brought to earth from space is growing more popular recently again. However, there is little doubt that subsequent process of evolution up to the primates had indeed occurred. Then, there is a mystery of human evolution which is not quite solved atm with many black spots. And there has been always the big dino mystery So, lets put it this way:
God of Universe or mere chance has sent us a seed of life a few billion years ago which then grew and matured into the present life forms and then, a few million years ago, God of Man or mysterious clash of circumstances has started to culminate this evolution into a dominating species of H. sapiens in its present from. This point of view might satisfy both the scientists who actually happen to believe in God and those who believe in nothing.please, do strike the God form the history of man - there is no indication whatsoever for any! Just because the fossil record is quite incomplete (which is normal) doesn't make this any more a mystery than the rise of any otehr species!
OK, now, I bet, you want to know what avian style endothermy means?
To make it short: compared to ectotherm poikilotherm reptiles, such as snakes, a mammal of the same weight will usually use 10x the enrgy (roughly). If you make a graph with body wieght on the x and energy on the y axis, you get two straight lines, with the mammal always 10x the y of the 'reptile'.
This is not true for birds: their line will be ABOVE mammals for very small animals, meeting it at around the area between turkey and ostrich, then be BELOW it (down to 60%!) if extended to the size of sauropods. Basically, the bigger the LESS energy they need and give off as heat per kilogram!
Lt. Killer M
23-02-2005, 10:33
quote:Originally posted by FearlessLeader2
Well, I'm not dumb enough to put a link to my violation of the forum rules in my sig, at any rate.
Have a nice day.
What shortsigted stupidity:
CFC rules are valid only on CFC.
They forbid a lot of content, but they do not forbid linking to outside sources.
Lt. Killer M
23-02-2005, 10:34
quote:Originally posted by Schip
haha. Somthing I saw on TV last thursday (a BBC documentairy) on global warming. all the dust and stuff in the air cause an effect called global dimming. This cools down the earth. Our efforts in reducing polution (Kyoto) are mainly focused on reducing 'visible' pollution. E.g. dust, carbon parts. This will lessen the effect on global dimming, but will hardly effect the increased greenhouse problems.
Scientists expect the the temperature increase to double, being 10 degrees higher within a 100 years. This basically means half the world will be ocean due to the melting of polar ice, and the other half will be a desert, much like the Sahel.
What strikes me is that nobody has a solution for these kind of problems, nor can they prove with 100% certainty their theories are valid. If they are true however the impacts are big enough to start worrying now. IMO denial is always wrong, better save than sorry on this one. That's one of the main raesons I hate Bush, he is to stupid to take notice.
I leave it here, note that I am not an expert nor very well informed on the subject. But if anyone has more/different info I would like to know. Just curious.
I'll also try to answer to this, but as said: me busy today. May take a few days.
EDIT: col says it all ;)
I watched a Horizon program on global dimming. Basically it said that pollution has reduced the light levels reaching the surface over the last 50 years. This means that we have underestimated the amount of global warming because the effects of global dimming have acted in the opposite direction to global warming. Now we are reducing the amount of atmospheric pollution we will expereince even more global warming than we previously have.
Lt. Killer M
23-02-2005, 14:14
btw, it is interesting to note that despite the plethora of expletives and insults, all FL2 got was a 'warning'. He posted the next day.
it is good to see that CFC mods do not knee-jerk-ban people with obvious mental problems! [thumbsup]
@Killer: Sure, you have the points and I keep a few as well. But body temperature as well as human evolution and origin of life are very complicated areas and the more you know, the more complicated it gets.
@FearlessLeader2: What do you want to prove? And to whom? You'd be better off going to church and praying there than posting on these forums. But I'm speaking of purely Orthodox point of view.
quote:Originally posted by Lt. Killer M
quote:... And my current boss is now preparing a book about the origin of life and I'm helping him out a bit here.[great - give us the title when it is out :)
I'm afraid this will never happen since I have not seen a single page written by him in the last year and a half and I'm not going to write it for him just because it is too complicated for my poor self. And even if it comes out, it will be 99% purely speculative organic chemistry with 1% of something else. [sad]
quote:Originally posted by FearlessLeader2
...
While it's not exactly the most usual way of coming to CDZ, welcome.
We're not here to piss anyone off, but we don't stop people airing their views either (usually). I hope you understnad this and don't think we are giving anyone preferential treatment.
I almost feel dirty for explaining myself, but I just wanted to be clear that this site is not 'anti'-anything, be it CFC, you, or anyone else. :)
Melifluous
23-02-2005, 23:18
quote:Originally posted by anarres
...but I just wanted to be clear that this site is not 'anti'-anything, be it CFC, you, or anyone else. :)
Quite right. In fact I would go one further and ask you to join us in a few discussions. Just because we all say the same thing here, doesn't mean we are right. If you have a point and are prepared to defend it here feel free.
I hope it's never personal here, we just like discussing stuff.
Melifluous.
PS. Nice rant though in that PM. [goodjob] You get the Meli official seal of approval. Damn those language filters.
Unless you censored your own PM, in which case [punch]
Pastorius
23-02-2005, 23:35
That's it Mel - let's take this outside [rant]
large trout slapping @ ten paces [fish]
Freedom of speech is considered more of a virtue here. Unless you make fun of anarres [:p]
Not really, he doesnt mind
or does he?
quote:Originally posted by Lt. Killer M
... please, do strike the God form the history of man - there is no indication whatsoever for any! Just because the fossil record is quite incomplete (which is normal) doesn't make this any more a mystery than the rise of any otehr species!...
Well, there is the problem with this. It is known that the genome of H. sapiens could have evolved indeed similar to other species and this is not the problem of some missing fossil. But how the properties of H. sapiens with overall present phenotype as a dominant species could have resulted form this genome... This is indeed a great mystery. There is nothing peculiar found so far in these genes which makes it clearly different from primates. And evolutions is all about genes and their recombinations.
It is a lot more complicated than it seems. There are serious scientists who very seriously consider that there has been some spark set and not just a mere gradual accumulation of changes over time. However, this is more of anthropology and I've got "B" in anthropology which has been one of my three undegrad "B"s out of 40 disciplines. Since that time, I hate anthropology. Besides, what we were taught back 20 years ago, was pure Marxist crap and severe bullshit. Hence, to emerge with a meaningful argument, I need at least read some modern science on this subject and not just browse through Nature articles.
Lt. Killer M
24-02-2005, 09:43
akots:
quote:There is nothing peculiar found so far in these genes which makes it clearly different from primates.
indeed - any any primate, parrot or whale could have started down the road of language&brains.....
basically, what makes humans special is a combination fo weird and improbably things (which is the normal way of evolution). A dangling primate (practically the quadruped who has reason to walk bipedally) gets pushed out of the forest a tthe same time that he starts massive tools use, this conincides with a trend for neoteny - voilá: man!
really, you get these trends together and they reinfocre each other: the less you use your hands for locomotion, the better can you use tools, the more of an advantage do the tools give you, the more reason you have to carry them around instead of cralwing on all fours, this means you adapt your legs for walking and running (forget climbing), this in turn means that you free your hands even more, which means they can become less tough but more nimble, whcih leads to better tools......
IF you also develop a neotnic-sized (i.e. larger) brain this proplonges your learning period, and IF you are already a K-strategist this allows for extensive learning from elders - add this to the nimble hands and the tools.......
again, this will reinforce itself.
a neotenic sound box helps, btw, in speech development. The same small change that gives you mroe brain also gives you an improved ability to use this brain by teaching and learning - another selfstrengthening cycle!
I see no big mystery in this!
Kingreno
24-02-2005, 10:35
quote:indeed - any any primate, parrot or whale could have started down the road of language&brains.....
Hence the incomprehensible discussions at this forum.[:p]
the Last Conformist
28-02-2005, 19:19
I just saw the linky in carlos/Killer's sig, so I registered, mostly to laugh a bit at FL2 again: [lol][lol][lol][lol][lol][lol]
Re: dinosaur metabolism, the Cretaceous, unless I'm grievously misinformed, is supposed to've been alot warmer than the present world. One'd naively expect that to give cold-blooded critters a comparative advantage vis-a-vis warmblooded ones. Yet, from what I've read, it seems to've been approximately equally dominated by homeotherms as the present chilly age. Is there something wrong with that naive expectation, or is there another explanation?
I would say that the current world is as dominated by poikilothermic cockroaches as it was during dino's age. :)
@Killer: Again I'm repeating myself that evolution and evolutionary biology is expecting to deal only with genes and their recombination and natural selection of the results. Why what the man is conserned, is highly irrelevant since there is no "tool use" gene or "I like walking on two legs" gene or "I like to learn from the elders" gene. Therefore it is about a different kind of evolution if any at all.
@the Last one: Wellcome to CDZ! Hopefully you'll like it here.
the Last Conformist
28-02-2005, 20:41
quote:Originally posted by akots
I would say that the current world is as dominated by poikilothermic cockroaches as it was during dino's age. :)
Nyaht nyaht. You know what I mean. There wasn't any cockroaches in the big showy terrestrial critter niches in the Cretaceous, and there aren't any today.
Hm. Maybe if God spent some more time with his mammalian children instead of inventing more kinds of beetle thana anyone could possibly need, FL2 wouldn't be so bitter. [cool]
Lt. Killer M
01-03-2005, 08:49
quote:Originally posted by the Last Conformist
I just saw the linky in carlos/Killer's sig, so I registered, mostly to laugh a bit at FL2 again: [lol][lol][lol][lol][lol][lol]Welcome!
While you're here, let's start a PBEM Civ game :D
quote:Re: dinosaur metabolism, the Cretaceous, unless I'm grievously misinformed, is supposed to've been alot warmer than the present world. One'd naively expect that to give cold-blooded critters a comparative advantage vis-a-vis warmblooded ones. Yet, from what I've read, it seems to've been approximately equally dominated by homeotherms as the present chilly age. Is there something wrong with that naive expectation, or is there another explanation?
Quite right, warmer gives them an advantage. Guess why the large crocodiles, iguanas etc are limited to the tropics today!
But not so much an advantage that they can replace homeotherms as dominant land critters. Otherwise, we'd ahve them in the dominant roles TODAY.
Also, the biggest difference is that in the Cretaceous, as in the Jurassic, the equator-pole-gradient was less steep. means: the tropics were hardly warmer, but the poles were a lot warmer (which actually favors homoetherms as they can more easily deal with polar night ;)).
curtsibling
04-03-2005, 14:46
Hi all!
Never one to miss the opportunity to plunge a dagger in the back of a fundie,
I was amused but oddly not surprised at this flaky outburst from FL2.
The mix of arrogance and literal bible belief must be a strain on
anyone's mind - Especially one that is unable to see outside the box.
While not the most vile of the fundies I have met, FL2 should really
break free of his inflexible principles and reject his armageddon fetishism.
Every modern creed has a source, normally in a paganistic pantheon.
A fact that many fundies cannot accept - More fool to them.
[coool]
Yeah, is FL2 one of those who thing the day of atonement is just around the corner?
I've heard some say that the 4 horsemen are already on their way. [lol] [crazyeye]
Oh and welcome curt. :D
Lt. Killer M
04-03-2005, 15:03
welcome, curt! :)
Yes, FL2 is full of promises and predictions of swift and certain doom to all non-born-again Christians.... and most of these, too. [lol]
Shabbaman
04-03-2005, 16:43
quote:Originally posted by Schip
haha. Somthing I saw on TV last thursday (a BBC documentairy) on global warming. all the dust and stuff in the air cause an effect called global dimming. This cools down the earth. Our efforts in reducing polution (Kyoto) are mainly focused on reducing 'visible' pollution. E.g. dust, carbon parts. This will lessen the effect on global dimming, but will hardly effect the increased greenhouse problems.
Woohoo, threadjacking!
You know, everybody who has a theory aside from the "mainstream" global warming theory is assured to get maximum media attention. The whole problem about all these theories is that the probability factor is always lower than the most common theory (that of global warming). Unfortunately, you can't prove anything without experiments. And unfortunately it's impossible to experiment with the atmosphere. Computer modelling is the next best thing. Modelling results are difficult to interpret.
Rest assured though, that it's a lot harder to prove global warming wrong. The probabilties of our climate not changing through human influence are pretty slim, not to say non-existent.
BTW, the Kyoto protocol is only aimed at the reduction of invisible pollution. You're correct though that most pollution prevention is mostly aimed at the reduction of visible elements though: the dust and carbohydrates you're referring to are a main component of, say, smog. But the crux here lies in the use of the wors "our efforts in reducing po[l]lution" which you falsely connect with the Kyoto-protocol. Although the Kyoto-protocol might receive a lot of media attention, it's also there where we (well, our governments) show nothing but inaction.
Pastorius
04-03-2005, 17:26
Dont know too much about global warming (in fact so little, that we economist use the term "optimal pollution" to describe the level of pollution that is associated with some level of good-production that has pollution as a side-effect). I have noticed that the weather in Norway seems fucked at times: Some years ago, it was spring like temperatures in february! Winter like tendencies in May, and summer lasted till september. This year, hardly any snow, and probably will get an extremely late winter again, and a late summer. If that isnt in some way related to global warming, I ll eat my hat...
the Last Conformist
05-03-2005, 03:04
While FL2 isn't the craziest* or most despicable fundie I know, he seems to be the most bitter. And his outbursts of aggressive Schadenfreude don't seem entirely suggestive of a well-balanced mind.
* A good candidate for that would be "McNameless" over at talk.origins. He recently went on record as not merely saying but doggedly defending that if multiple independent experiments measure the same value for something, that is evidence that that value is wrong.
Lt. Killer M
05-03-2005, 14:13
quote:Originally posted by the Last Conformist
While FL2 isn't the craziest* or most despicable fundie I know, he seems to be the most bitter. And his outbursts of aggressive Schadenfreude don't seem entirely suggestive of a well-balanced mind.
that is anything but Schadenfreude - it is just a vicious swearing attack.
quote:* A good candidate for that would be "McNameless" over at talk.origins. He recently went on record as not merely saying but doggedly defending that if multiple independent experiments measure the same value for something, that is evidence that that value is wrong.
Say again?
I don't need to understand that, do I? Or do you? [lol]
the Last Conformist
05-03-2005, 14:32
quote:Originally posted by Lt. Killer M
quote:Originally posted by the Last Conformist
While FL2 isn't the craziest* or most despicable fundie I know, he seems to be the most bitter. And his outbursts of aggressive Schadenfreude don't seem entirely suggestive of a well-balanced mind.
that is anything but Schadenfreude - it is just a vicious swearing attack.
I wasn't refering to this particular PM, but to instances like his reaction to the child support case with the man whose ex had impregnated herself with semen she got from oral sex. FL2 clearly derived a great deal of satisfaction from the man's misfortune. And it's not a one-off occurence; it's his standard reaction to stories of people who, after in his opinion having acted immorally, have something unpleasant happen to them.
Now, I don't think there are many, if any, of us that can say they never take pleasure in the misfortunes of those they don't like, but FL2 takes it to an extreme that seems pathological.
quote:quote:* A good candidate for that would be "McNameless" over at talk.origins. He recently went on record as not merely saying but doggedly defending that if multiple independent experiments measure the same value for something, that is evidence that that value is wrong.
Say again?
I don't need to understand that, do I? Or do you? [lol]
I understand what he says. To understand why he says it, I suppose you need first-hand experience of insanity.
curtsibling
07-03-2005, 03:23
I think FL2's crowning gem was when debating the hypothetical situation of post-global-disaster.
He said that when in a situation that only 50 or so women are left, it would be best to cut off
their arms and legs, so they could not have the opportunity to be hurt by accidents, thus
depriving men the chance to breed with them - What the feck?
Call me old-fashioned, but that is pure searing insanity!
The fact that FL2 likes to harp on about his christian values, and then can vomit
such venom against other humans is far beyond the pale. The fellow makes me laugh.
I pity him, and hope he comes round to sanity and lucid atheism one day!
......
quote:Originally posted by curtsibling
I think FL2's crowning gem was when debating the hypothetical situation of post-global-disaster.
He said that when in a situation that only 50 or so women are left, it would be best to cut off
their arms and legs, so they could not have the opportunity to be hurt by accidents, thus
depriving men the chance to breed with them - What the feck?
Ouch![medic]
Lt. Killer M
07-03-2005, 09:31
TLC: sorry, I misread your post.
Curt: He said WHAT????? [lol]
quote:Originally posted by Lt. Killer M
TLC: sorry, I misread your post.
Curt: He said WHAT????? [lol]
That remark makes me think of Dr. Strangelove. But this is scarier.
Shabbaman
07-03-2005, 13:03
quote:Originally posted by Aggie
That remark makes me think of Dr. Strangelove. But this is scarier.
I've read a thread in OT two months or so ago which discussed what weapons would be best to exterminate most of the world population so that the american survivors could build a new society [rolleyes]
curtsibling
07-03-2005, 13:41
I think the current Americans should be building a new society right now...In the USA!
But you gotta love them!
:D
Shabbaman
07-03-2005, 13:54
Oh, but aren't they trying? The US seems to be evolving into some theocracy.
curtsibling
07-03-2005, 14:19
When Joe America's wallet gets seriously hit, then the worm will turn.
The USA will get bored with 'anti-terror war' and move onto something new, like WW3 with China!
On the serious note:
I have no problem with our US cousins kicking fundie asses though...
Pity they don't clean out those whipped-cream-haired, snake-oil-salesmen bible thumpers from the nation...!
Lt. Killer M
07-03-2005, 14:33
curt, what do you expect?
the bible thumpers there are the people who either got kicked out of or couldn#t manage to live in harmony with others here in Europe!
curtsibling
07-03-2005, 14:50
A good point - Religious extremism must be challenged, whatever face it chooses to wear!
And FL2 gave us all a good insight into the mind of the fundie - The raging hate at their core...
:)
Loved an episode of the Simpsons last night. Homer had to organise the half time entertainment at the superbowl. Ned Sanders did a tales from the bible - lots of killing and gore --- and the US rose in condemnation. Too much religion.
Nice to see that the fundies are being challenged by some sections of their media.
the Last Conformist
08-03-2005, 20:33
quote:Originally posted by curtsibling
I think FL2's crowning gem was when debating the hypothetical situation of post-global-disaster.
He said that when in a situation that only 50 or so women are left, it would be best to cut off
their arms and legs, so they could not have the opportunity to be hurt by accidents, thus
depriving men the chance to breed with them - What the feck?
I can't decide whether I'm the more horrified by what this implies about his morality or about his intelligence.
curtsibling
10-03-2005, 14:59
It is the usual situation:
Scratch a fundie and you'll find something awful underneath...
.
punkbass
10-03-2005, 19:28
quote:Originally posted by the Last Conformist
I understand what he says. To understand why he says it, I suppose you need first-hand experience of insanity.
Hey, don't bring me into this :p
I don't follow it either
Lt. Killer M
10-03-2005, 19:38
hehe, welcome PB, even without your 2000 ;)
Wow, I'm not sure this thread is the best first impression of CDZ. [lol]
Although we *did* manage to divert thread to geology for a while so I guess it's fairly representative....
heh, welcome punk. :) How will you cope without the jesus smiley in every thread and every other sig?
He, where is the good ole fucking CDZ tradition of welcoming new fellas by kicking the fucking PBEM shit out of their fucking asses? I'd like to fight Der Curt but grant the first pick to Carlos himself ;).
Pastorius
11-03-2005, 01:09
quote:Originally posted by anarres
Wow, I'm not sure this thread is the best first impression of CDZ. [lol]
Although we *did* manage to divert thread to geology for a while so I guess it's fairly representative....
heh, welcome punk. :) How will you cope without the jesus smiley in every thread and every other sig?
Put them (fanatics with Jesus smiley overload) in your ignore list [evil]
punkbass
11-03-2005, 14:10
quote:Originally posted by Beam
He, where is the good ole fucking CDZ tradition of welcoming new fellas by kicking the fucking PBEM shit out of their fucking asses? I'd like to fight Der Curt but grant the first pick to Carlos himself ;).
Nah, wouldn't want to have to put your ego in a situation where it might get deflated ;)
curtsibling
12-03-2005, 22:02
quote:Originally posted by Beam
He, where is the good ole fucking CDZ tradition of welcoming new fellas by kicking the fucking PBEM shit out of their fucking asses? I'd like to fight Der Curt but grant the first pick to Carlos himself ;).
Victory against the Enemy Ace is no easy gig!
A battle would be fun, but I only play CIV2!
[sunn]
Lt. Killer M
13-03-2005, 09:02
Curt, then you are missing out on a great load of fun!
get C3C and let's fight it out ;)
Melifluous
13-03-2005, 09:14
Or Killer would if his current install worked that is [mischief]
Melifluous
vBulletin® v3.7.3, Copyright ©2000-2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.