Kingreno vs Beam 2 - * * SPOILER * *

[Beam]

KR immedetially decided for a rematch after I conceded in the 1st one so it is time for revanche and revenge. [evil]

Pelago map by Kemal. :) KR plays the Dutch pot-smoking whoors, I play Isabelle so no need to go visit the whoors other than devastating them.

Lots of the AI have Alpha as starting tech and KR has both a headstart and Agri so not a lot of sense to go for a Philorun. Instead Pottery was researched first to get a Gran somewhere, Wheel is next. It is the only basetech no one starts with so maybe trading is possible.

The map in t14. Minimap shows Byz location in the deep SE btw.

http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/Beam/2005130231125_14map.jpg
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Following turns learned that there is water SE of the Game near the Curragh so that land most likely is an island. The hills near those river are nice settling locations for city 2 and 3. Same for the hill near the Curragh. It is a pity one turn is lost building the settler but the only alternative was building a warrior and lose even more turns.

First puzzle in the game. For a while we both were stuck at Civscore 60, then KR went to 61. No real surprise cause the Dutch could have grown to size 2. But after cultural border expansion Byz went into a Civscore lead by 1 point! Byz also are 7th in Land Area, not 8th which could be expected being player 2. Strange, even more because Amsterdam is size 3 and it still was in t16.

http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/Beam/2005130232824_civscore.jpg
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http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/Beam/2005130233420_14amsterdam.jpg
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http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/Beam/2005130233515_14dem.jpg
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[Beam]

34:

A warrior scouting the home island spots a Dutch Curragh. Not sure if I should be happy with that because KR basically found me. Researching Writing and the number of turns did not drop so KR hasn't learned it yet.

Bad news is that the attempt for the Wheel looked fine until the turn it was learned. It appeared that Abe had learned it as well and the Incas were researching it so no trade possible.

We met all but 2 Civs (Egypt and Rome).

KR is complaining about lots of barbs. I've only met one barb curragh and was victorious :)

[Beam]

49:

Sometimes luck happens. The tech situation wasn't very good, Writing so inpopular that we just could get CB for it. Had to pay gold with CB to get WC from the Romans.

Then a scouting Byz saw yellow borders. Egypt, the last civ to be contacted. One turn later contact was made. A big and pleasant surprise in F4. KR hasn't met them yet! [dance] [party]

http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/Beam/20052312357_luckydayf4.jpg
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He must have been sailing E after meeting the Romans because Egypt is to the SE of the Romans.

http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/Beam/200523122059_49minimap.jpg
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They even haven't learned the Alphabeth (well, do you need that when you got Hieroglyphs? ;)) and are happy to trade 2 techs.

http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/Beam/20052312552_49trade.jpg
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2 AI know about HBR not about Mysticysm yet. It is acquired with small extra payment. We finally get our WC payment pack from the Romans. Byzantines just lack Mapmaking.

50:
Iroqs learned CoL briefly after learning Mapmaking. I guess KR just completed his Philorun which was to be expected. Byz are researchin Lit and hope to get a monopoly.

[Beam]

68:

Literare came in and it is time to catch-up techs! Most AI haven't met yet which on one side means they consider their techs still very valuable while they are generally available. On the other side Lit even stays a monopoly tech after some trading and acquired techs can be used to beef up the Byzantine offer.

So we start with Lit and 28 gold for Maths with the Inca. Step by step acquire Mapmaking, CoL and Poly. Finally trade Poly with the Inca for Phil and the initial investment. AI is at 0 cash after the trade.

[Beam]

Quite an eventfull series of turns!

94:

When the sav is opened it is clear Currency is available. It dropped from 4t to 1t and checking F4 learns that William, and 2 AI have changed clothes. Byz have 41 gold and that's to the penny the amount we can buy it from the Iroqs. We draw Engineering! Not bad because we have lots of rivers.

Only Mongolia seems to have some interest in a Curr - Rep trade but we don't have enough cash so we trade Curr until Mongolia is willing to trade. Byz have 1 gold but gained 3 techs this turn. :) Byz can revolt but 2 settlers are under construction and are needed to settle a small island very close to the main island.

This is very nice, move to the MA in the same turn as KR and although the empire is on the small side for a revolt the timing is perfect techwise. We'll keep bargaining power despite the revolution.

98:

The two settlers are completed and revolt initiated. Just 4 turns! [dance]

99:

Egypt demands Engineering and is told to fuck off. They declare. Good luck, you are far away. Peacefull builds have to be changed to Horsies however and that is going to hurt upkeep under Rep big time. The empire:

http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/Beam/20052811143_99empire.jpg
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100:

Fucking Abe demands Engineering as well. Fuck off, they declare. Not so good because they are neighbours. War happiness is very good however but I really don't want more bribes and the Iroqs are willing to pay 25 gpt, ivory and some cash for Engineering. Never ever would I have done this deal but for being sure MWs aren't joing the party. Minimap:

http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/Beam/20052811844_100minimap.jpg
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Peacedeal with KR expires and extended for 20 turns. I've been thinking about an invasion but with the AI wars it would be close to suicide.

101:

No bribe demands [relief]. Kemals assures me the aggresion level on the map is normal. KR and me were curious because KR told me he had a Roman and a Mongolian invasion out of the blue and he has had many bribe attempts as well. KR lost his Iron island to the Womans and did not sound very optimistic getting it back, we all know him as a diplo guy.

102:

We choose Republic, do the regular checks. Everybody got fucking Engineering and Iroqs (iirc) have Feud! Only KR could have done this and I'm a little clueless how he did it. Either:
- Researched Feud himself, get Eng. and sell it around. That would mean 8 turns for Feud, that is very, very fast.
- Iroqs researched it and KR got enough in the combination beakers / cash / gpt to buy it. Weird as well, by the time KR went to the MA he knew Iron wasn't easily accessable. And buying a monopoly tech certainly isn't cheap.
- Something else, dunno

Another issue is what to do with the Dromons in this warhappy environment, especially in relation to the GA. Since imo any use for the Dromons other than sit in port could result in a GA trigger I decided to look for options to trigger the GA myself at the right moment, i.e. now and try to get another monopoly baseline tech. This succeeded, a yank galley was bombed to death in port and Monotheism is due in 7.

The peacedeal with KR was renewed for another 20 turns, but I am considering to strike hard after that. Considering because it needs to be successfull or I am stuck with Dutch war happiness for the rest of this game.

[Beam]

178:

The game is progressing well in terms of turns played, otherwise it is a struggle. We were the first to research Industrialization which was used to:
- Get Medicine, Electricity, Communism, Democracy, Economics, Navigation, Sanitation
- Get around 400 gpt
- Sign peace with Cleo and Abe

Most AI have Fascism and FreeArt, can live with that. Reno most likely is heading towards ToE.

Biggest problem now is connecting Iron. Egyptian troops are blocking a mountain tile that needs to be roaded. And at some time we need to start an offensive somewhere.

[Beam]

185:

The Iron problem could well be solved soon! [dance] Abe and Cleo started their own war which made Egyptian iron available. Abe also started to kill the stack blocking the critical tile. Just preying they will fuck-off once they've done their job.

http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/Beam/20054216508_ironisland.jpg
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[Kemal]

I suppose you're hesitant to scare them off yourself - by demanding they leave - for a good reason...? ;)

[Beam]

Indeed Kemal, don't want to risk the lux-deal with Cleo because I need it, limited military and Corporation next turn all are reasons to take it easy (not my normal policy btw).

[Beam]

213:

All are in the Modern Age now. Byzantines drew Computers and sold it to Iroqs (the only with gpt to spend) for 521 gpt + 766 gold.

Practiced stealing quite a number of times in the IA, fortunately all steals went well. Cash came from fat deals with the AI for Industrialization and Corporation iirc, at some time netting 950 gpt. The AI was atypical in terms of research because KR decided not to go the Electronics route with ToE, instead choose techs on the path to Tanks.

Iroqs starting to build Hoover was the signal for the final Steal (AT and Electronics) / Trade (Electronics for Flight with Egypt) jump to the Modern Age. Been extremely lucky until now with the steals, risking war etc., although the Byz are well able now to fight a defensive war against any of the AI.

Minimap:

http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/Beam/2005416131731_213minimap.jpg
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Got an agent in Amsterdam so we know about KR's troops:

http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/Beam/2005416131821_213unitsa.jpg
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http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/Beam/2005416131845_213unitsb.jpg
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http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/Beam/200541613198_213unitsc.jpg
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KR and me just agreed a no nuke deal and we need to start to think if and how to win this game.

[Pastorius]

Looks like you are underdog (sizewise) in this game at the moment. How is f11 treating you?

[Beam]

quote:Originally posted by Paalikles

Looks like you are underdog (sizewise) in this game at the moment. How is f11 treating you?


Average at best. Improving that requires to go in the offensive. [charge][charge][charge]

[akots]

Very peculiar game. With overdeveloped AI or so it seems. Still it is a mistery to me how you managed to not only keep them alive but seemingly prosperous and use as cash cows.

Is the no-nuke deal going to last till the end of the game? Or just for a few turns? Are you going for space win or will try to mount an assault on Kingreno? If it is with conventional means, then he is bigger and probably more productive?

[Beam]

The no nuke deal will last for the entire game.

Why are the AI so prosperous? One part has to do with resources, no Iron and Salpeter on the home island. Iron is on a nearby island but difficult to access (see t185 pic) and Salpeter nowhere near. The other part has to do with very fast developing AI in the early game, KR and me were just happy we could keep up. I am sure we both can beat the AI in the Spacerace, KR however is player 1 and that is a big advantage when it comes to launch.