View Full Version : ???SGOTM6 - CDZ Team???
IMO, it will be nice to field a strong CDZ team to beat the hell out of CFC and show to mad-bax and others over there that SG can be played well.
I have not attempted to do anything there until the SGOTM is supporting C3C patch 1.22. So, now they do. If somebody is up for a challenging SG, let's sign up here and then post the team at CFC.
Needed: 4 more team members, game setup and sign up thread in the SGOTM forum:
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=110770
Kingreno
28-01-2005, 08:22
I am in. :D
Melifluous
28-01-2005, 11:26
I am in.
Celts, 100k, only allowed Despotism and Communism?
Sounds fun? [crazyeye]
Melifluous
I'm up for it too - if you have room for someone who still holds the record for the highest scoring defeat and the lowest scoring win in GOTM (afaik).
Lt. Killer M
28-01-2005, 14:31
OK, if that's the team so far I would like to be No.6!
Too late: [:P]
quote:Needed: 4 more team members
Socrates
28-01-2005, 17:20
Interesting idea. The only downside for those who heavily follow the GOTMs (not me anymore) is that you know the general map in advance and how it will be played. Reading Bamspeedy's Settlers thingie for an old GOTM was too much for me to take part in an SG about the same game.
quote:Originally posted by akots
I have not attempted to do anything there until the SGOTM is supporting C3C patch 1.22. So, now they do.
Shows how CFC sucks, no 1.22 until now ? [eek] Or is it because they were replaying old games ?... [hmm]
I'll follow our team. WE NEED TO BEAT CFC THERE !!! ;)
OK, It is:
Kingreno
Meli
col
Anarres
carlosMM ??
akots
Substitute : Plux
I can act as a substitute player since there might be problems of skipping/holding the turn since it is strict 24/48 cycle to play. As well as reloading count.
grahamiam
28-01-2005, 18:10
@ krys: madbax is using new maps now. up to sgotm4, he was using old gotm's and was limited to vanilla and ptw. sgotm5 was his 1st map and was a really cool, sort of setup like you were one of the poles, but this was also limited to vanilla and ptw. sgotm 6 is the first one to have C3C as an option. be aware that he is splitting the scoring between the vanilla/ptw crowd and the c3c crowd.
good luck! team smackster and team offa have been leading the pack the last 2 or 3 games. might want to scope out thier threads to get a sense of thier style.
OK, sign-up posted and mad-bax pm'ed on the matters. He's getting old and picky these days especially considering our strained relationship but it should be fine like it is. The individual team members can confirm the sign-up by posting in the same thread.
Indeed smackster and Offa have assembled formidable teams with a few strong players. But this makes the competition even more interesting.
Expect some serious ROP raping from team Offa, I can tell you of that :)
Yep, it is played by the GOTM rules hence with RoP rape, Palace jump, and all other things allowed.
Socrates
28-01-2005, 21:51
Ah yes of course. Sure. Then it's a no-no for me for any further game there. [nono] I hope CDZ can win without doing this shit. [thumbsup] Go go go CDZ !!! [cool]
I have not yet done a single RoP rape in C3C GOTM (COTM). But IMO, it would be very hard to compete without "dirty tricks" and certainly not possible to win with honorable RBC tactics. Usually, the RoP rapes are rather useless since they add a few turns to the finish date but it depends on circumstances. However, it would be better to abstain from using at least most of the RBC exploits. But rumor says that RBC players reload a lot thus partially compensating for honorable gameplay. Well, in this case it is opposite - "dirty tricks" allowed but reloading is [nono].
oops, misunderstanding there. I meant to say that Killer was too late as nr 6. I don't even have civ installed, so I would make a bad subst anyway :)
Lt. Killer M
29-01-2005, 01:37
eh, can someone post for me @ CFC. I am having my usual troubles there atm ;)
Socrates
29-01-2005, 02:02
quote:Originally posted by Lt. Killer M
eh, can someone post for me @ CFC. I am having my usual troubles there atm ;)
You mean that your double personality also has problems over there ? ;) Link ? Or at least a story ? ;)
I made a funny post a few days ago, here it is : http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=2509006&postcount=140. Look at the last line. [lol]
Please, Kingreno, Meli, col, and carlos-eagle-Killer post the sign up in the CFC thread. And if carlos is banned, apparently there is no way to post, may be just pm mad-bax confirming the sign up please.
I've just looked at the Offa's team. And it actually might be impossible to beat that kind of team. I have played one SG with Northern Pike (probably the weakest player) and he's actually very strong. Others are the top CFC GOTM and SG players. I hope they will play PTW since this might be the only chance. ;)
Please note the game will start around February 7th-8th in a thread created in SGOTM forum by mad-bax and then there it will be possible to start the discussion but lets think for now of the possible strategies. It will be Despotism and then Communism with 100K culutral victory goal played as Celts.
Melifluous
29-01-2005, 10:36
quote:Originally posted by akots
Please, Kingreno, Meli, col, and carlos-eagle-Killer post the sign up in the CFC thread.
Signed up 10 minutes before you made this post [:p]
quote:Originally posted by akots
It will be Despotism and then Communism with 100K culutral victory goal played as Celts.
Am firing up an SP game as we speak. I assume we are Emperoring?
Melifluous
The main problem would not be the difficulty per se but the ability to compete with other teams as it is in GOTM. IMHO, it would be close to Demi-God with one settler for the AI. Since DG equivalent does not exist in vanilla/PTW, mad-bax has posted Emperor(approximately). But with this guy, you never know.
Just out of curiosity: What are these mad-bax issues?
100k win only. Communism the only allowed gov. A religious civ.
ICS here we come.
Kingreno
30-01-2005, 20:32
I say we need just one tech no?
Apparently up to Education. Should not last to Replaceable parts/Civil Engineers or even to Communism but hard to tell. And stir some early phony wars to slow the tech pace down. And probably ICS with very dense build of corrupt cities.
Kingreno
31-01-2005, 09:18
quote:Education
[eek][eek][eek]
I was thinking Iron working!
I'm not sure there will be iron there. In recent GOTMs and due to mad-bax desire to make the easy things complicated, I would strongly suspect that iron would be on a hill under Rome or Persepolis and we would have to capture it with archers since we would not have horses either.
But you never know. ;)
Back in the days of the tournament, (ask Grandpa Beam) we had one game per season that were fastest culture games. The winning strategy was always ICS. Forget wonders. Two or three temples will give you the same culture for a lot less shields. A few hundred cities with temples and libraries gives a lot of culture. The main difficulty is balancing the military needed to ever-increase land area up to the dom limit, with the infrastructure needed to generate culture.
Hundreds of small cities are the way to go. No buildings other than temple, lib, rax crammed in as tight as its possible to get ie one square apart. It essentially means generating a constant flow of settlers then pop rushing temples.
Its a very different kind of game.
Pastorius
31-01-2005, 12:10
quote:ask grandpa Beam
[lol]
Socrates
31-01-2005, 12:48
Well I'm glad not to play then. ICS is just not my way of playing Civ, and having hundreds of cities Packt Like Sardines In A Crushed Tin Box ;) isn't appealing. ICS is... not a brilliant RBCiv tactic, so... [blush2]
Good luck to our team ! (I should stop saying that, they'll get annoyed :D )
quote:Originally posted by col
Back in the days of the tournament, (ask Grandpa Beam) we had one game per season that were fastest culture games. The winning strategy was always ICS. Forget wonders. Two or three temples will give you the same culture for a lot less shields. A few hundred cities with temples and libraries gives a lot of culture. The main difficulty is balancing the military needed to ever-increase land area up to the dom limit, with the infrastructure needed to generate culture.
Hundreds of small cities are the way to go. No buildings other than temple, lib, rax crammed in as tight as its possible to get ie one square apart. It essentially means generating a constant flow of settlers then pop rushing temples.
Its a very different kind of game.
I used to excel at those games, since 95% of people tried to build early temples in all their cities. [lol] [lol]
col - my only amendment to your comment is that your CORE must NOT be ICS. I can't state that enough!!!! If your core is ICS you won't be able to afford all those rushed temples/libs later on because your max production is much smaller.
The way to win is to play as normal conquest, but when your cities hit 90% corruption to go ICS. Then when you have enough land (enough land < 66% when borders are expanded, but as close to it as possible) you rush temples/libs. a.k.a. loose core, ICS fringes.
If you want to get anal about it (and I do!) then you work out the SHIELDS PER CULTURE POINT ratio of each building and rush all the lowest value buildings first, as cash becomes available (at this point in the game you are only ever waiting for $$$ to rush culture, nothing else).
Melifluous
31-01-2005, 17:38
quote:Originally posted by anarres
<snip>...as cash becomes available (at this point in the game you are only ever waiting for $$$ to rush culture, nothing else).
But obviously not a concern this time, being stuck in Despo (and/or maybe reaching Communism) its gonna be pop-rushing and all the fun that entails.
30 shield temples will help though.
Melifluous
quote:Originally posted by anarres
col - my only amendment to your comment is that your CORE must NOT be ICS. I can't state that enough!!!! If your core is ICS you won't be able to afford all those rushed temples/libs later on because your max production is much smaller.
The way to win is to play as normal conquest, but when your cities hit 90% corruption to go ICS. Then when you have enough land (enough land < 66% when borders are expanded, but as close to it as possible) you rush temples/libs. a.k.a. loose core, ICS fringes.
If you want to get anal about it (and I do!) then you work out the SHIELDS PER CULTURE POINT ratio of each building and rush all the lowest value buildings first, as cash becomes available (at this point in the game you are only ever waiting for $$$ to rush culture, nothing else).
With pop rushing the only option with the unhappiness that it will bring, I'm not entirely convinced. Money is worthless except for upgrading units. I think this makes a crucial difference. The core simply needs to generate settlers as fast as possible. Production is only useful insofar as it allows you to build units to conquer territory. The only thing that matters ultimately is how fast you can build temples and libraries.
It is a complicated balance of expansion (peaceful and military) and early culture. Since other teams also know how to play that kind of game. And apparently lots of workers/slaves to irrigate everything. But we should not discuss too much here since other team members will be lurking in the plans which is strictly prohibited in the SGOTM forum.
I guess we need a private forum for this.
Anarres?? PP??
It should be OK at CFC since AlanH and Ainwood (current GOTM mods) keep an eye on team members lurking into competitor threads. We can safely start discussion after the game has started at CFC IMHO.
I'm gonna get a couple of practise games in. What are the initial conditions?
quote:
Playable Civ - Celts
World size - 100 wide by 130 high.
Difficulty Emperor (approximately)
Landform Contiguous Pangea
The map is handbuilt, and therefore may not have a standard configuration.
This Months' sponsored variant is Cultural Celtic Communists the rules for which are as follows.
1. The only allowed governments are despotism and communism.
2. You must win by 100K victory condition.
Kingreno
31-01-2005, 20:53
quote:Originally posted by akots
It should be OK at CFC since AlanH and Ainwood (current GOTM mods) keep an eye on team members lurking into competitor threads. We can safely start discussion after the game has started at CFC IMHO.
I would very much like the thread here at CDZ since, well, I never go to CFC and do not intend on going to start that either. But, if the majority decides otherwise, I can cope with it...
Dunno, since all other teams will be posting at CFC, might be better to have main thread there with turnlogs. But might be possible to discuss here as well.
Good thing, thanks to AlanH, there is no need to upload the saves any longer and all submissions and scorings are automated!
Melifluous
01-02-2005, 02:34
quote:Originally posted by col
I'm gonna get a couple of practise games in. What are the initial conditions?
quote:
Playable Civ - Celts
World size - 100 wide by 130 high.
Difficulty Emperor (approximately)
Landform Contiguous Pangea
The map is handbuilt, and therefore may not have a standard configuration.
This Months' sponsored variant is Cultural Celtic Communists the rules for which are as follows.
1. The only allowed governments are despotism and communism.
2. You must win by 100K victory condition.
Does this seem odd to anyone else?
As far as I can see from the Editor standard is 100 x 100 tiles and large is 130 x 130.
So is this an abnormally tall map?
Melifluous
Kingreno
01-02-2005, 09:53
Having used the editor a lot I know what could be the meaning behind the 100X130. It turns the map visually into a square, same hight as width. He could have graphicly wanted to make a special mapshape.
Also, making the shape 100X130 could also mean that on a "random" map with these parameters all "layers" are bigger. Thick Jungle in the middle, thick Tundra near the poles, ect ect.
I am curious.
As for tactics. I tested as well and there is one way that would make this a LOT easier. We need luck though. We need the Temple of Artemis. Soon. Either build it or Capture it.
But the ToA means you have to hold off education?
At the end of these games I am getting around 1500-2000 cultre per turn, do you think ToA that ends so early will actually help?
Kingreno
01-02-2005, 12:21
I'd never go for education in this game. First, Despotism means a lot of corruption and not so much production. If we have to crank out 200 shield Universities that will not help that much IMHO. I prefer 4 GS over a University any time.
We also should prevent getting Feudalism in the game as it makes our GS obsolete, so why research at all beyond the few needed techs in the Ancient Era? With the cash we get we can get literature by buying/stealing it. I say that once we get the wars going, we can pop-rush some of these but our main culture will have to come from temples.
Remember that if we get Artemis 2 setlers (60 shields and 4 pop) will produce more culture then one Lib (80 shields).
Well, we need about 60% of the landmass. I can't imagne getting it without Cavs, although maybe 30% of Deity games I can finish by Knights so it is possible.
Of course, we would never rush unis. That much is obvious. ;)
BTW, in your test did you play Deity 100k? Did you really get there in the ancient age??
Kingreno
01-02-2005, 12:53
difficulty: Emperor
Perhaps that explains my PoV?
On deity it would be very hard to try and conquer the world with GS, on emperor...why not? [fdevil]
I wonder how hard this game will be. I get the impression that these games are anything apart from standard. [ponder]
However we can get to Cavs if needed without Education, so I guess my original point is invalid. ToA will be very powerful...
Free and instant temples in every city will be a game buster. We need to check that this wonder is still available. Iirc they adjust the bic to make C3C compatible with PTW and vanilla Civ. Its possible they'll remove it.
Darkness
01-02-2005, 17:15
ToA's nice, but IIRC the temples' cpt doesn't double after 1000 years, so if you're going for 100K handbuilt temples might be more beneficial....
Putting in a lot of effort for ToA will be hardly worth it. With 30 shield temples and being agri in every city you'll have a temple in 5, 7 or 10 turns at most.
Pyramids seem substantially more tempting than ToA and it might be possible to get them on Emperor imo. With enough luxuries it might be possible to whip at least cathedrals and may be universities in food-rich cities even if they would have to starve. Also, we actually might be better off avoiding ToA since culture for temples does not double. With "projected date" or around 1400-1600AD, it might be worth only if acquired after 400-600AD apparently. But by then, the conquest phase should be essentially over either with GS or knights. It might be also that we would need Navigation to reach some remote areas of the map and/or trade luxuries with the AI and hence Education might be required.
Hmm - I still think ToA is a breaker. The early temples allows libraries to be whipped instead or a settler to be built. Combine ToA with 200+ cities and we have a lot of very very rapid culture
I'll have to find a few GOTM discussions between SirPleb and mad-bax regarding the balance of early expansion versus early culture with calculations as well as cost/cpt for various improvements. Also, later on, it might be worth considering Palace moves either for free or with a leader to corrupt areas to boost production there.
Kingreno
01-02-2005, 22:50
Hmm, much depends on the map and also who our neighbours are! If our neighbours are Industrious (or the Inca) they start with masonry and will very likely beat us to the Pyramids. We can capture it easier with the GS then build it ourselves.
Remember that for getting it ourselves we need Masonry rather soon and it is not a tech that leads us anywhere.
There is a plently of stuff written about 100K in PTW/vanilla. But very few posts on 100K in C3C. I guess, differences are obvious.
The only meaningful post seems to be one by SirPleb winning COTM4 100K culutral race.
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=99837&page=2&pp=20
The date has been rather impressive although he also played for score since this is GOTM and score is more important. Also, he did not stay in Despotism obviously. In SGOTM, the only thing that matters is the finish date apparently. Though mad-bax tries to stick to his word, he used to change or tweak the rules half-way through the game "due to new circumstances discovered during gameplay". Certainly, SGOTM would be not so well polished and not so thouroughly tested as GOTM is especially in its C3C version and especially since there would be only a few teams playing C3C. I'm not so sure at to whether he is always fair and considers all options as well. And since the scenario (map at least) was created in vanilla editor, a series of bugs might be highly anticipated. After all, it will be the first C3C SGOTM - SCOTM.
There is a very peculiar discussion in the SGOTM forum "Permitted" by mad-bax. IMO, the guy is trying to fuck up the game again. Also, I really don't understand his attitude. If we ever meet face to face in real life, first thing he gets from me is a good punch just for the fun of seeing his reaction (of course aiming to break the nose). [lol]
Melifluous
04-02-2005, 22:43
Confused... [confused]
I seen the rating that Mad-Bax posted.
Puts me at Sid with anarres and akots, whilst Col and Killer get Deity and KR gets emperor???!!!???
I can honestly say that I have never even beaten Deity in my entire life.
And I easily put Killer above me in rankings, cant comment on KR, but I suppose the Col ranking was fair ;)
Melifluous
I guess this is specific mad-bax's "Double vision". IMO, the words of a song come handly around him: "I wear my sunglasses at night". It works in a very simple way: You see what you want and what you think is true and you just ignore what you don't want to see. ;)
It might be OK, but same things come to the games sometimes. At least, this was the case while he was play-testing them alone. I would still prefer an exact replay of the original GOTM with some tweaks or some variant or playing for some other civ than in original GOTM while keeping the scenario. And am very suspicious regarding the home-cooked (anti)constipation cocktail of poorly tested scenario with weird distribution of the players between the teams.
However, rumor says that mapmaking and playtesting of the variant rules has been substantially improved. So, it is worth a shot IMO.
The tread at CFC is up and running. It is possible to start discussions there but the save will be available on the 7th.
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=111448
quote:Originally posted by Melifluous
Confused... [confused]
I seen the rating that Mad-Bax posted.
Puts me at Sid with anarres and akots, whilst Col and Killer get Deity and KR gets emperor???!!!???
I can honestly say that I have never even beaten Deity in my entire life.
And I easily put Killer above me in rankings, cant comment on KR, but I suppose the Col ranking was fair ;)
Melifluous
Hmm - seeing as how I'm currently 0-3 in pbems having lost to Meli, Killer and erikk, I'm not convinced. I play on emperor normally and like Meli certainly do not regard myself in any shape or form as a deity player. I feel sorry for KR being ranked below me!
Awesome team you have there guys :)
Team Offa decided to join the C3C just because of you.
Your ideas are great but nothing new, but try to get an own thread (with PW) so snoops like me can't read what you're doing? I shouldn't be here, but I'm a member in this forum too and couldn't resist.
And I'm sure I find a way to screw up my team's plans again and make us win quicker than the intentions was. So I'm the weak link in our team and take notes in forums like this :lol:
No seriously, Good Luck and everything, you'll need it :) Our team consist of 3 calculators, a warmonger and me. I'm indifferent to what way the game goes and can change my mind like the wind, even if my team-mates dislike it. But they're always prepared with tar and feathers IF I do something very stupid and a WHOLE lot of calculations.
Just to be fair, I'm not going to look in this thread again and if someone can PM me when it's "safe" I would like to continue the lighter discussion of the game :)
cheers,
gozpel
Awesome team you have there guys :)
Team Offa decided to join the C3C just because of you.
Your ideas are great but nothing new, but try to get an own thread (with PW) so snoops like me can't read what you're doing? I shouldn't be here, but I'm a member in this forum too and couldn't resist.
And I'm sure I find a way to screw up my team's plans again and make us win quicker than the intentions was. So I'm the weak link in our team and take notes in forums like this :lol:
No seriously, Good Luck and everything, you'll need it :) Our team consist of 3 calculators, a warmonger and me. I'm indifferent to what way the game goes and can change my mind like the wind, even if my team-mates dislike it. But they're always prepared with tar and feathers IF I do something very stupid and a WHOLE lot of calculations.
Just to be fair, I'm not going to look in this thread again and if someone can PM me when it's "safe" I would like to continue the lighter discussion of the game :)
cheers,
gozpel
Kingreno
07-02-2005, 09:30
quote:Originally posted by col
quote:Originally posted by Melifluous
Confused... [confused]
I seen the rating that Mad-Bax posted.
Puts me at Sid with anarres and akots, whilst Col and Killer get Deity and KR gets emperor???!!!???
I can honestly say that I have never even beaten Deity in my entire life.
And I easily put Killer above me in rankings, cant comment on KR, but I suppose the Col ranking was fair ;)
Melifluous
Hmm - seeing as how I'm currently 0-3 in pbems having lost to Meli, Killer and erikk, I'm not convinced. I play on emperor normally and like Meli certainly do not regard myself in any shape or form as a deity player. I feel sorry for KR being ranked below me!
I have no idea who determined the ranking, but also can't realy care. It may be based on the number of posts at CFC, I have 6 (or 7).
It is possible to start the game. :)
All downloads and links are at mad-bax's post or his sig.
Melifluous
07-02-2005, 18:16
OK Guys.
We have a new forum here --> http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/forum.asp?FORUM_ID=92
It is only available to people that are on the roster list, so...
Anyone else who would like access, could you please post in the I would like to see whats going on in SGOTM6 please thread which is here --> http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=2371
Lets get going.
Melifluous
Hi gozpel!
I hope we give you a good game. :)
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